Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

Until recently I have just been using my Citi Double Cash card to get 2% cash back on everything. I recently stumbled upon the idea of credit card churning on another financial-related site. I've heard of it before but have always been skeptical for various reasons. After doing a little research and calculations I figured I would give it a shot. The last time I had my credit pulled my score was 762 I think, and haven't had any major changes since then. I don't plan on taking out a mortgage any time soon, so I'm not worried about a small temporary credit hard for a couple hard inquiries. I don't plan on going all out like a lot of these "churners" on various blogs. I don't plan on doing any "manufactured spending" or anything like that. I'm just going to continue my normal spending habits and try to optimize my returns and take advantage of some of the larger sign-up bonuses that I can use. All the big rewards tend to be travel related, so if you don't like to travel it probably wouldn't benefit you much.

With just 3 cards I estimate that my wife and I will earn $3,315 in rewards over the next year (no annual fees this year). I got the British Airways credit card and the Citi Hilton HHonors Reserve card and my wife got the SPG American Express. We average about $32k a year on credit cards, so that comes out to a 10.36% return. Of course the actual amount depends on how you redeem the points, so this is just an estimate. You could get more or less depending on how wisely you spend your points/miles. I'm just using average estimates of the value of the points.

Much of these rewards are in the form of sign-up bonuses. We will probably cancel the British Airways card before the annual fee but plan to keep the other two. My low-end calculation for next year is $931 in rewards, which would be equivalent to a 2.91% return. My high-end calculation if we are able to get some retention offers is $1,172, or 3.66%. This is based on actual retention offers that have been given recently.

Just thought some members here might be interested in seeing some actual numbers to compare. Any way you slice it the rewards end up being more than the 2% I'm getting now, and I have really spent very little effort. Of course there is potential to get a lot more in rewards, I am not maximizing them by any means. Plenty of people are getting $10k+ a year in rewards, it just depends on how involved you want to get in the process and how much you spend. And of course you have to pay off your balance every month or the interest will cancel out any rewards.
auggiedoggies
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:16 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by auggiedoggies »

I love this game. It's all about timing it right with big signup bonuses. I've done zero manufactured spend, and in the last 2.5 years I've acquired 80k Starwood points, 150k Ultimate Rewards points, and 140k Membership Rewards points, along with several free hotel nights. And it's helped raise my credit score into the high 700's. It's really a no brainer if you travel at all, even just a few times a year
sharpjm
Posts: 657
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by sharpjm »

I am curious about some good rewards cards as well. I have used Chase Freedom for several years and have averaged ~2% cash back. The bonuses that chase gives (+10pts per purchase and +0.1% points) will end this year so I'm thinking of switching to a new card. Without those bonuses, my average cash back would only be ~1-1.5%. So I was considering the double cash card.

I have always brushed off the travel cards because my assumption has been that there would be so many blackout dates and other restrictions that I wouldn't be able to use my points efficiently. Currently I travel 2-3 times per year, but with work it can vary quite a bit... I foresee myself traveling 5-6+ times per year in the future, mostly for work.
User avatar
kristianfreeman
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:27 pm
Location: Whatcom County, WA

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by kristianfreeman »

This is a pretty big thing on Reddit, though when I tried it a couple years ago, I found my self-control wasn't as good as I thought it was and I dropped it :( . Not subscribed now, but I used to see a lot of pretty impressive schemes over at /r/churning.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

auggiedoggies wrote:I love this game. It's all about timing it right with big signup bonuses. I've done zero manufactured spend, and in the last 2.5 years I've acquired 80k Starwood points, 150k Ultimate Rewards points, and 140k Membership Rewards points, along with several free hotel nights. And it's helped raise my credit score into the high 700's. It's really a no brainer if you travel at all, even just a few times a year
Nice! My wife and I are planning a week long trip to Hawaii in about 8 months and we should easily be able to get 2 round trip tickets and probably 7 nights free at nice resorts. All we will pay for is a rental car, food (minus breakfast), and whatever else we decide to do there. We're even going scuba diving free because I have a friend who owns a diving operation there. The whole trip will end up being cheaper than a typical weekend beach trip for us.
TradingPlaces
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:19 pm
Location: 30.286029, -97.530011

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by TradingPlaces »

Since June 2014, between two people, all are the sign-up portions:

1. 70K Chase UR (via Chase Ink Plus, $0 fee first year),
2. 55K United (via Chase United MP, $0 fee first year),
3. 40K US Airways (via Barclays, $89 fee),
4. 100K American (via Citibank Executive AA Card, $450 fee, $200 rebated; also: lounge membership),
5. 50K American (via Citibank, $0 fee first year),
6. 50K Delta (via American Express, $0 fee first year)
7. 55K United (via Chase United MP, $0 fee first year).
8. Barclays Arrival ($500 bonus, $0 fee first year).

I value the airline points at around 1.8-2 cents. So the 420K points worth around $8K (plus the $500 from Arrival). There was spend required, the most prominent one being the 100K American Airlines: $10K. I would say that total spend required was less than $25K, because some cards had very little spend, or just 1 purchase. Mostly just everyday expenses, but we had some travel, moving, and to speed things up, some was manufactured via Amazon Payments and other legal shenanigans (like prepay bills, and either get a refund, or just let it ride). There was also less than $400 of NET annuals fees paid.

BTW, during that time, got a 5/1 ARM Jumbo Mortgage at 3.00% (zero-cost rate was 2.875%, but got half a point credited back in exchange for taking a 0.125% higher rate).

Overall, credit card bonuses are a good trade. If there were enough available card offers, between the two of us, we could probably manage to open 2 cards per month (and satisfy spending), to the tune of 50K bonus per card. 50K x 2 x 12 x $0.018 = $21,600. Minus costs of, say, $2K, that's a $19K a year hobby.

On the usage side:

1. 21 day trip to Europe, flown business class both ways over the Atlantic, plus connections in Europe . Stayed in 4 different cities. 225K United Miles plus $500 in fees. Value out of the United points: I would say around $4K for two people.

2. 3/4 of the stays at Hiltons, using mostly points, but some cash as well. Around 250K hilton points spent. Value out of the Hilton points: $1750. Would have liked to extract more value out of the Hilton points, but quite a bit of value extracted out of Diamond membership: upgraded rooms, concierge lounge, free WiFi, free breakfast. All Hiltons were very conveniently located.

Wanted to go to Brazil via the US Airways cheapest-of-the-cheap business class fares, and stay at Hiltons, but timing, etc, did not work out. Need to try some other time.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

TradingPlaces wrote:Since June 2014, between two people, all are the sign-up portions:

1. 70K Chase UR (via Chase Ink Plus, $0 fee first year),
2. 55K United (via Chase United MP, $0 fee first year),
3. 40K US Airways (via Barclays, $89 fee),
4. 100K American (via Citibank Executive AA Card, $450 fee, $200 rebated; also: lounge membership),
5. 50K American (via Citibank, $0 fee first year),
6. 50K Delta (via American Express, $0 fee first year)
7. 55K United (via Chase United MP, $0 fee first year).
8. Barclays Arrival ($500 bonus, $0 fee first year).

I value the airline points at around 1.8-2 cents. So the 420K points worth around $8K (plus the $500 from Arrival). There was spend required, the most prominent one being the 100K American Airlines: $10K. I would say that total spend required was less than $25K, because some cards had very little spend, or just 1 purchase. Mostly just everyday expenses, but we had some travel, moving, and to speed things up, some was manufactured via Amazon Payments and other legal shenanigans (like prepay bills, and either get a refund, or just let it ride). There was also less than $400 of NET annuals fees paid.

BTW, during that time, got a 5/1 ARM Jumbo Mortgage at 3.00% (zero-cost rate was 2.875%, but got half a point credited back in exchange for taking a 0.125% higher rate).

Overall, credit card bonuses are a good trade. If there were enough available card offers, between the two of us, we could probably manage to open 2 cards per month (and satisfy spending), to the tune of 50K bonus per card. 50K x 2 x 12 x $0.018 = $21,600. Minus costs of, say, $2K, that's a $19K a year hobby.

On the usage side:

1. 21 day trip to Europe, flown business class both ways over the Atlantic, plus connections in Europe . Stayed in 4 different cities. 225K United Miles plus $500 in fees. Value out of the United points: I would say around $4K for two people.

2. 3/4 of the stays at Hiltons, using mostly points, but some cash as well. Around 250K hilton points spent. Value out of the Hilton points: $1750. Would have liked to extract more value out of the Hilton points, but quite a bit of value extracted out of Diamond membership: upgraded rooms, concierge lounge, free WiFi, free breakfast. All Hiltons were very conveniently located.

Wanted to go to Brazil via the US Airways cheapest-of-the-cheap business class fares, and stay at Hiltons, but timing, etc, did not work out. Need to try some other time.
Wow, that's awesome. I know there is a lot of potential, it amazes me reading about how much some people are able to get. Researching this stuff is fun to me too, so I consider it more "entertainment" than "work" to do the research required.
TradingPlaces
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:19 pm
Location: 30.286029, -97.530011

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by TradingPlaces »

Under those circumstances .
Last edited by TradingPlaces on Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TradingPlaces
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:19 pm
Location: 30.286029, -97.530011

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by TradingPlaces »

Drew777 wrote: Much of these rewards are in the form of sign-up bonuses. We will probably cancel the British Airways card before the annual fee but plan to keep the other two. My low-end calculation for next year is $931 in rewards, which would be equivalent to a 2.91% return. My high-end calculation if we are able to get some retention offers is $1,172, or 3.66%. This is based on actual retention offers that have been given recently.
I would do the following:

- channel all spending towards satisfying initial, minimum spend,
- target 20%+ return (as sign-on bonuses are quite large),
- scale up, and scale strategically.

E.g., a typical card has something like 50K bonus for $3K spend, annual fee waived. Look for an opportunity to get extra 10K points when there is a promotion, and maybe stick another 5K points for authorized user sign-up and other easy, low hanging fruit. Even if this required you to spend $5K, instead of $3K, this is what we have:

- spend: $5K,
- earn: say 65K points (50K typical sign-up, 10K extra for well timed promotion, 5K for the actual spend), at conservative 1.5 cents per point, or $975.

$975/ $5K = 19.5%

Surely, there are juicier possibilities out there. E.g., 40K (or is it 50K) Barclays US Airways card for $89 annual fee. 1 purchase for $1 earns you 40K points, and US Airways points are by far the most valuable of them all.
Last edited by TradingPlaces on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

TradingPlaces wrote:
Drew777 wrote: Much of these rewards are in the form of sign-up bonuses. We will probably cancel the British Airways card before the annual fee but plan to keep the other two. My low-end calculation for next year is $931 in rewards, which would be equivalent to a 2.91% return. My high-end calculation if we are able to get some retention offers is $1,172, or 3.66%. This is based on actual retention offers that have been given recently.
I would do the following:

- channel all spending towards satisfying initial, minimum spend,
- target 20%+ return (as sign-on bonuses are quite large),
- scale up, and scale strategically.

E.g., a typical card has something like 50K bonus for $3K spend, annual fee waived. Look for an opportunity to get extra 10K points when there is a promotion, and maybe stick another 5K points for authorized user sign-up and other easy, low hanging fruit. Even if this required you to spend $5K, instead of $3K, this is what we have:

- spend: $5K,
- earn: say 65K points (50K typical sign-up, 10K extra for well timed promotion, 5K for the actual spend), at conservative 1.5 cents per point, or $975.

$975/ $5K = 19.5%

Surely, there are juicier possibilities out there. E.g., 40K (or is it 50K) Barclays US Airways card for $89 annual fee. 1 purchase for $1 earns you 40K points, and US Airways points are by far the most valuable of them all.
Surely, there are jui
I actually just got approved for the Barclays US Airways card, and the signup bonus was 50k miles after first purchase. I also just applied for the Chase Hyatt card which gets 2 free nights after spending $1k within 3 months. Looks like I will have enough rewards for my wife and I to get from ATL to HNL and back with 6 free hotel nights. We will either use points or pay for a seventh night.

I will probably apply for the Citi AAdvantage and Chase Fairmont cards soon as well. Just ordered an AmEx Serve card so I can start using it to pay student loans/mortgage.
PatrickA5
Posts: 976
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by PatrickA5 »

According to my Award Wallet web site, my wife and I are sitting on 2.3 million points/miles scattered over 5 airlines, 5 hotel groups, and Chase Ultimate Rewards points. I've been playing this game for 7 years and have saved thousands every year in hotels, flights and rental cars for our family vacations. We've done this mainly by use of bonus points from signing up for credit cards. We've done almost no "manufactured spending" other than buying gift cards to places that we'd normally spend money at anyway. It takes a little time and organization and of course you MUST pay off the credit cards each month. My credit card spreadsheet shows a total of 66 credit cards going back to 2008. Again, organization is the key. That, and a good credit score (ours are in the 815 - 820 range). I highly recommend this hobby - but it's not for everyone!
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

PatrickA5 wrote:According to my Award Wallet web site, my wife and I are sitting on 2.3 million points/miles scattered over 5 airlines, 5 hotel groups, and Chase Ultimate Rewards points. I've been playing this game for 7 years and have saved thousands every year in hotels, flights and rental cars for our family vacations. We've done this mainly by use of bonus points from signing up for credit cards. We've done almost no "manufactured spending" other than buying gift cards to places that we'd normally spend money at anyway. It takes a little time and organization and of course you MUST pay off the credit cards each month. My credit card spreadsheet shows a total of 66 credit cards going back to 2008. Again, organization is the key. That, and a good credit score (ours are in the 815 - 820 range). I highly recommend this hobby - but it's not for everyone!
That's awesome! I don't plan to do any real "manufactured spending", but I did order an AmEx Serve card so I can use it to pay student loans/mortgage with a CC. I've literally never paid a cent of CC interest, so not worried about that. I budget meticulously down to the penny every month, so I'm confident in my organizational abilities. I have a spreadsheet as well keeping track of all our important CC info.
tibbitts
Posts: 23588
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by tibbitts »

It's coming up on renewal time for my United card, where I'm going to have to fork over the $95. I had planned to use it twice during my year (got it just after returning from a United flight last year, ironically) and it would have paid for itself in fee savings with just one use, but it didn't happen. If I don't pay the $95 I'll miss the primary rental car insurance (for non-business travel.) So that's one risk of these cards - you can become somewhat addicted to certain benefits.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

tibbitts wrote:It's coming up on renewal time for my United card, where I'm going to have to fork over the $95. I had planned to use it twice during my year (got it just after returning from a United flight last year, ironically) and it would have paid for itself in fee savings with just one use, but it didn't happen. If I don't pay the $95 I'll miss the primary rental car insurance (for non-business travel.) So that's one risk of these cards - you can become somewhat addicted to certain benefits.
Yeah, I know I won't keep them all once annual fee time comes. I'll just have to do a cost/benefit analysis for each card and determine which ones I'm really going to get enough value out of to keep. You can only really use so many cards.
ponyboy
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by ponyboy »

One of the best rewards for domestic flights is obtaining the companion pass from southwest. We had it 2 years ago. Its a bogo reward...buy one flight with money or points, get another free. If you want more details do a google search...plenty of helpful resources regarding this.

Ive been playing the rewards credit card game for the past 6 years. In that time my wife and I have been to Hawaii twice...going a third time this May, Alaska, Puerto Rico, San Francisco, Spokane (then drove to glacier NP and Banff,) Vegas, SLC (then drove to yellowstone and almost all np's in utah.) We are also going to Australia in 2016...all of these flights were extremely cheap. You have to take in to account annual fees for the card and fees that airlines tack on no matter how you book. Sometimes you have to be a little flexible with your dates and where you can fly to. Sometimes there will be driving involved depending on what you want to do/see. Also, between my wife and I, we probably cashed in on $3k or $4k in gift cards. Note: flights are almost always going to be the best bang for your reward. Getting gift cards will always be a worse deal.

If you're a person who does not pay your credit cards off in full each month...do not start signing up for these cards. This isnt a game you should play.

A lot of people ask about credit score...ive signed up for more than 20 cards in the past 6 years...my score is high 700's.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

ponyboy wrote:One of the best rewards for domestic flights is obtaining the companion pass from southwest. We had it 2 years ago. Its a bogo reward...buy one flight with money or points, get another free. If you want more details do a google search...plenty of helpful resources regarding this.

Ive been playing the rewards credit card game for the past 6 years. In that time my wife and I have been to Hawaii twice...going a third time this May, Alaska, Puerto Rico, San Francisco, Spokane (then drove to glacier NP and Banff,) Vegas, SLC (then drove to yellowstone and almost all np's in utah.) We are also going to Australia in 2016...all of these flights were extremely cheap. You have to take in to account annual fees for the card and fees that airlines tack on no matter how you book. Sometimes you have to be a little flexible with your dates and where you can fly to. Sometimes there will be driving involved depending on what you want to do/see. Also, between my wife and I, we probably cashed in on $3k or $4k in gift cards. Note: flights are almost always going to be the best bang for your reward. Getting gift cards will always be a worse deal.

If you're a person who does not pay your credit cards off in full each month...do not start signing up for these cards. This isnt a game you should play.

A lot of people ask about credit score...ive signed up for more than 20 cards in the past 6 years...my score is high 700's.
I'll apply for the Southwest card eventually, but I probably need to wait a while before applying with Chase again. I just got the British Airways and Hyatt cards from Chase. Flights and hotels are all I really plan to use the rewards on; it seems like they are pretty much always the best deals. Like I said, I always pay my balance in full every month.
obgraham
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by obgraham »

According to my Award Wallet web site, my wife and I are sitting on 2.3 million points/miles scattered over 5 airlines, 5 hotel groups, and Chase Ultimate Rewards points. I've been playing this game for 7 years
What's the point of going through this exercise if you never use the miles/points?
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

obgraham wrote:
According to my Award Wallet web site, my wife and I are sitting on 2.3 million points/miles scattered over 5 airlines, 5 hotel groups, and Chase Ultimate Rewards points. I've been playing this game for 7 years
What's the point of going through this exercise if you never use the miles/points?
He said he's saved thousands every year on flights/hotels/rental cars, etc. I've done some reading on the flyertalk forums, and it seems there are quite a few members with points/miles balances in the millions despite using them regularly.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by VictoriaF »

I am still learning this game. My principles at this time are:
1. Apply for new cards for the initial bonuses rather than ongoing cash back.
2. Cancel cards at the end of the first fee-free year.
3. Use the rewards for the Economy travel.
...- I do not care about more comfortable flights.
...- I do not care about staying in chain hotels.

I have not estimated the "return" on my effort but applied a general logic:
1. One of the reasons for my retirement was to be able to travel wherever I wish to travel.
2. If I am going somewhere anyway, it makes sense to reduce costs, if possible.
3. In retirement I have more time to dedicate to saving money.
4. Saved dollars are more significant than earned dollars.
5. The travel-rewards game is not a one-shot deal. The skills can be extended and applied every year.

Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
AndrewHMeador
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:00 am

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by AndrewHMeador »

If you're in the military, tell your credit card company and you'll get a full rebate of any annual fee because of the Servicemember's Civil Relief Act. It's a nice perk. Consider it moderate compensation for the lack of an employer match in the TSP retirement plan (which only applies to uniformed military and not to civilian employees).
User avatar
ejvyas
Posts: 773
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:09 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by ejvyas »

What is the best resource? Where do I start reading up on this?
travellight
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by travellight »

I Have had a couple of cards short me on the rewards because I had had one of their cards within the past two years. I Have also been turned down for a couple of cards and my credit score is 760. I Think they are trying to combat churning.
364
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

ejvyas wrote:What is the best resource? Where do I start reading up on this?
http://www.reddit.com/r/churning/
http://www.flyertalk.com/

Between these sites you can find everything you need to know on churning. I would read the wikis on reddit and the flyertalk forums first and check out the blogs and resources links on the reddit page. I've learned a lot just casually reading the last couple weeks.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

travellight wrote:I Have had a couple of cards short me on the rewards because I had had one of their cards within the past two years. I Have also been turned down for a couple of cards and my credit score is 760. I Think they are trying to combat churning.
Before reapplying for a card you've had in the past I would check their policy on signup bonuses for that particular card. I think most of them won't give you the bonus if you have received a bonus on the same card in the last 2 years. Some require the account to be closed for 2 years. Some are much more lenient. Some cards like AmEx only offer the bonus once in a lifetime and will only give you the difference if you signup again for a larger bonus.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

I just got a targeted offer in the mail for a 100k point signup bonus on the AmEx Platinum card. There is a $450 annual fee, but I value those points at close to $2,000. I will probably wait a couple months and apply right before the deadline to give me as much space as possible between applications. I wasn't going to apply for any more cards for a while, but this is the largest signup bonus that's ever been offered on the card. Don't want to pass up the chance.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

Just redeemed points for the first time. Booked 3 nights at the Sheraton Lake Buena Vista Resort in Orlando in May. We were going anyway and needed someplace to stay, and just happened to get a great deal here (I think). I used starpoints (SPG American Express) plus cash to get a discount on the room price. I could've booked all 3 nights using points only, but I thought the cash + points was a better deal in this case. The regular price was $116 a night and I got it for 2,000 starpoints + $35 a night. Starpoints are typically valued at 2.4 cents each when used on SPG properties based on what I have read, and it seems to be about right on average based on the rooms I have looked at. I ended up getting 4.05 cents each out of them, so I feel like it was a good deal. It would've been 3,333 points per night if I had used starpoints only. I'll save the rest for our Hawaii trip later this year.

All I had to do was make 1 charge on the card to get 10,000 points. I'll get another 15,000 after spending $5,000 within 6 months. It also gives 1 point per dollar spent and 4 points per dollar spent at SPG properties.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by VictoriaF »

Drew777 wrote:Some cards like AmEx only offer the bonus once in a lifetime and will only give you the difference if you signup again for a larger bonus.
Does this limit apply only to the cards received directly from American Express? If I get an SPG card from AmEx, would it preclude me from getting other AmEx cards?

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

VictoriaF wrote:
Drew777 wrote:Some cards like AmEx only offer the bonus once in a lifetime and will only give you the difference if you signup again for a larger bonus.
Does this limit apply only to the cards received directly from American Express? If I get an SPG card from AmEx, would it preclude me from getting other AmEx cards?

Victoria
You can get the SPG bonus and still get a bonus for another AmEx card, you just can't get the bonus for the SPG card again. There are certain cards that are considered the same "product" though, like the Mercedes-Benz Amex and the Amex Platinum I believe. The Amex Platinum and Amex Gold are separate products though, so you can get the bonus for each. The business versions are separate as well, and they do not have the lifetime restriction. The SPG AmEx won't prevent you from getting any other AmEx bonuses though. I think it's one of the best overall cards as well.
Last edited by Drew777 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by VictoriaF »

Drew777 wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
Drew777 wrote:Some cards like AmEx only offer the bonus once in a lifetime and will only give you the difference if you signup again for a larger bonus.
Does this limit apply only to the cards received directly from American Express? If I get an SPG card from AmEx, would it preclude me from getting other AmEx cards?

Victoria
You can get the SPG bonus and still get a bonus for another AmEx card, you just can't get the bonus for the SPG card again. There are certain cards that are considered the same "product" though, like the Mercedes-Benz Amex and the Amex Platinum I believe. The Amex Platinum and Amex Gold are separate products though, so you can get the bonus for each. The business versions are separate as well. The SPG AmEx won't prevent you from getting any other AmEx bonuses though. I think it's one of the best overall cards as well.
Thank you, Drew!

I have received an offer of 25,000 Starpoints from SPG as follows:
• 10,000 Starpoints after your first purchase on the Card
• 15,000 Starpoints after you use your new Card to make $5,000 in purchases within the first 6 months

Is this a good offer, or should I wait for something better?

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
2stepsbehind
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:03 am

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by 2stepsbehind »

VictoriaF wrote:
Drew777 wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
Drew777 wrote:Some cards like AmEx only offer the bonus once in a lifetime and will only give you the difference if you signup again for a larger bonus.
Does this limit apply only to the cards received directly from American Express? If I get an SPG card from AmEx, would it preclude me from getting other AmEx cards?

Victoria
You can get the SPG bonus and still get a bonus for another AmEx card, you just can't get the bonus for the SPG card again. There are certain cards that are considered the same "product" though, like the Mercedes-Benz Amex and the Amex Platinum I believe. The Amex Platinum and Amex Gold are separate products though, so you can get the bonus for each. The business versions are separate as well. The SPG AmEx won't prevent you from getting any other AmEx bonuses though. I think it's one of the best overall cards as well.
Thank you, Drew!

I have received an offer of 25,000 Starpoints from SPG as follows:
• 10,000 Starpoints after your first purchase on the Card
• 15,000 Starpoints after you use your new Card to make $5,000 in purchases within the first 6 months

Is this a good offer, or should I wait for something better?

Victoria
Spg once a year or so usually has a limited time 30,000 offer. Unless you have a particular redemption in mind where you need points immediately, I'd wait for that. I think it is usually offered in late summer/fall.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by VictoriaF »

2stepsbehind wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
Thank you, Drew!

I have received an offer of 25,000 Starpoints from SPG as follows:
• 10,000 Starpoints after your first purchase on the Card
• 15,000 Starpoints after you use your new Card to make $5,000 in purchases within the first 6 months

Is this a good offer, or should I wait for something better?

Victoria
Spg once a year or so usually has a limited time 30,000 offer. Unless you have a particular redemption in mind where you need points immediately, I'd wait for that. I think it is usually offered in late summer/fall.
Thank you, 2stepsbehind!

You are wonderful,

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

VictoriaF wrote:
Drew777 wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
Drew777 wrote:Some cards like AmEx only offer the bonus once in a lifetime and will only give you the difference if you signup again for a larger bonus.
Does this limit apply only to the cards received directly from American Express? If I get an SPG card from AmEx, would it preclude me from getting other AmEx cards?

Victoria
You can get the SPG bonus and still get a bonus for another AmEx card, you just can't get the bonus for the SPG card again. There are certain cards that are considered the same "product" though, like the Mercedes-Benz Amex and the Amex Platinum I believe. The Amex Platinum and Amex Gold are separate products though, so you can get the bonus for each. The business versions are separate as well. The SPG AmEx won't prevent you from getting any other AmEx bonuses though. I think it's one of the best overall cards as well.
Thank you, Drew!

I have received an offer of 25,000 Starpoints from SPG as follows:
• 10,000 Starpoints after your first purchase on the Card
• 15,000 Starpoints after you use your new Card to make $5,000 in purchases within the first 6 months

Is this a good offer, or should I wait for something better?

Victoria
My wife recently got that card with the same offer. However, they have offered up to 30,000 points in the past, so it's up to you whether you value an additional 5,000 points enough to wait for a better offer. I think it's likely they'll offer it again. 5k starpoints is worth about $120 if you go by the common 2.4 cents/point, but I just got 4.05 cents/point on my hotel reservation. I found quite a few fairly nice rooms in Orlando starting at 3,000 starpoints a night, so the points can go a long way.
tedclu
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by tedclu »

Credit card churning is very profitable if you have self control and a good tracking method. If you go to flyertalk there were people living off the rewards from amex old blue card which gives 5% on certain purchases.(it's now capped at 50k of spend).

The marginal cost(miles) to fly international biz compared to coach is small. So alway try to fly biz on a 6+ hr flight. Once you have tried Cathy first or lufthansa first it is hard to fly delta or United again.

Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by VictoriaF »

tedclu wrote:Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
I recently got two Citi AA cards, Personal and Business, with 50k bonuses for each. Are you saying that I could get these cards every two-three months? I am planning to cancel these cards in a year, when the annual fees would start. How will this impact my ability to get new Citi AA cards?

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
tedclu
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by tedclu »

VictoriaF wrote:
tedclu wrote:Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
I recently got two Citi AA cards, Personal and Business, with 50k bonuses for each. Are you saying that I could get these cards every two-three months? I am planning to cancel these cards in a year, when the annual fees would start. How will this impact my ability to get new Citi AA cards?

Victoria

Yes it is the citi AA executive card

$450 annual fee 5k spending two every 65 days. You cancel 37 days after the fee post to cancel, then they will refund the fee. I'm on #11. Google citi aa exec flyertalk.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

VictoriaF wrote:
tedclu wrote:Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
I recently got two Citi AA cards, Personal and Business, with 50k bonuses for each. Are you saying that I could get these cards every two-three months? I am planning to cancel these cards in a year, when the annual fees would start. How will this impact my ability to get new Citi AA cards?

Victoria
The Barclays US Airways card also has a 50k signup bonus, and the points transfer to AA. British Airways has a 50k signup bonus and you can use the points on AA and US Airways as well.

Here are the rules on Citi applications:
Maximum of one Citi application per 8 day period
No more than 2 applications per 65 day period
No more than one business application per 95 day period

Not all Citi cards allow you to get the signup bonus multiple times, but some do. However, their language states that the bonus is not available if you have opened or closed an account with that particular card in the last 18 months. The AA card does include this language, so you would need to wait 18 months after closing the account to apply again.

http://www.doctorofcredit.com/list-of-c ... dit-cards/
tedclu
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by tedclu »

VictoriaF wrote: Thank you, Drew!

I have received an offer of 25,000 Starpoints from SPG as follows:
• 10,000 Starpoints after your first purchase on the Card
• 15,000 Starpoints after you use your new Card to make $5,000 in purchases within the first 6 months

Is this a good offer, or should I wait for something better?

Victoria
I would apply for two amex cards on the same day back to back, you only get one credit pull that way.

Spg has a lot of good experiences you can buy with points. US open tennis tickets or meet and greet is the one I'm most looking forward to each year.

Also, since spg has the Cubs account for 10 years,they have been having softball tournaments at wrigley field for only 5k points. From experience, these events are amazing value.
Last edited by tedclu on Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
2stepsbehind
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:03 am

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by 2stepsbehind »

tedclu wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
tedclu wrote:Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
I recently got two Citi AA cards, Personal and Business, with 50k bonuses for each. Are you saying that I could get these cards every two-three months? I am planning to cancel these cards in a year, when the annual fees would start. How will this impact my ability to get new Citi AA cards?

Victoria

Yes it is the citi AA executive card

$450 annual fee 5k spending two every 65 days. You cancel 37 days after the fee post to cancel, then they will refund the fee. I'm on #11. Google citi aa exec flyertalk.
We all need to draw our own individual lines as to how far we take things. I'd note that this is a very aggressive strategy and one that could backfire for participants in the form of shut down accounts, forfeited rewards/rewards clawback, and the inability to get additional credit from the issuer. YMMV.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by VictoriaF »

Drew777 wrote: Here are the rules on Citi applications:
Maximum of one Citi application per 8 day period
No more than 2 applications per 65 day period
No more than one business application per 95 day period

Not all Citi cards allow you to get the signup bonus multiple times, but some do. However, their language states that the bonus is not available if you have opened or closed an account with that particular card in the last 18 months. The AA card does include this language, so you would need to wait 18 months after closing the account to apply again.

http://www.doctorofcredit.com/list-of-c ... dit-cards/
The two Citi AA cards I have do not charge the annual fee during the first year. I was going to cancel them close to the end of the year, when the fee would be due. From what you are writing, it seems preferable to cancel them as soon as possible (right after the bonus miles are posted on my account) to start the 18 months countdown. Is this a correct logic?

Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
tedclu
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by tedclu »

2stepsbehind wrote:
tedclu wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
tedclu wrote:Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
I recently got two Citi AA cards, Personal and Business, with 50k bonuses for each. Are you saying that I could get these cards every two-three months? I am planning to cancel these cards in a year, when the annual fees would start. How will this impact my ability to get new Citi AA cards?

Victoria

Yes it is the citi AA executive card

$450 annual fee 5k spending two every 65 days. You cancel 37 days after the fee post to cancel, then they will refund the fee. I'm on #11. Google citi aa exec flyertalk.
We all need to draw our own individual lines as to how far we take things. I'd note that this is a very aggressive strategy and one that could backfire for participants in the form of shut down accounts, forfeited rewards/rewards clawback, and the inability to get additional credit from the issuer. YMMV.
I agree. I did a cost benefit analysis.

Once the miles hit your frequent flyer account, they cannot be clawed back.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

VictoriaF wrote:
Drew777 wrote: Here are the rules on Citi applications:
Maximum of one Citi application per 8 day period
No more than 2 applications per 65 day period
No more than one business application per 95 day period

Not all Citi cards allow you to get the signup bonus multiple times, but some do. However, their language states that the bonus is not available if you have opened or closed an account with that particular card in the last 18 months. The AA card does include this language, so you would need to wait 18 months after closing the account to apply again.

http://www.doctorofcredit.com/list-of-c ... dit-cards/
The two Citi AA cards I have do not charge the annual fee during the first year. I was going to cancel them close to the end of the year, when the fee would be due. From what you are writing, it seems preferable to cancel them as soon as possible (right after the bonus miles are posted on my account) to start the 18 months countdown. Is this a correct logic?

Victoria
Yes, but I haven't actually done this myself yet, this is just what I have gathered through some research over the last couple weeks.
2stepsbehind
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:03 am

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by 2stepsbehind »

Drew777 wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
tedclu wrote:Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
I recently got two Citi AA cards, Personal and Business, with 50k bonuses for each. Are you saying that I could get these cards every two-three months? I am planning to cancel these cards in a year, when the annual fees would start. How will this impact my ability to get new Citi AA cards?

Victoria
The Barclays US Airways card also has a 50k signup bonus, and the points transfer to AA. British Airways has a 50k signup bonus and you can use the points on AA and US Airways as well.
Just point of clarification, the points you receive from the US Airways card do not transfer to AA. Rather, given the two programs will be combining (and the dividend mileage program will formally end) dividend miles will become AA miles.
With respect to the British Airways card, you can redeem Avios for certain AA and US Airways flights (namely those low level awards that AA and US Airways make available to their partners), but you can not directly use the points on AA and US Airways, nor can those points be combined with AA and US airways.
Topic Author
Drew777
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by Drew777 »

2stepsbehind wrote:
Drew777 wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
tedclu wrote:Back in the day you were able to book a round the world flight up to 25,000 miles in biz for 150,000 aa miles, and last year they were giving out 100k per sign up.(citi allows two every 65 days).
I recently got two Citi AA cards, Personal and Business, with 50k bonuses for each. Are you saying that I could get these cards every two-three months? I am planning to cancel these cards in a year, when the annual fees would start. How will this impact my ability to get new Citi AA cards?

Victoria
The Barclays US Airways card also has a 50k signup bonus, and the points transfer to AA. British Airways has a 50k signup bonus and you can use the points on AA and US Airways as well.
Just point of clarification, the points you receive from the US Airways card do not transfer to AA. Rather, given the two programs will be combining (and the dividend mileage program will formally end) dividend miles will become AA miles.
With respect to the British Airways card, you can redeem Avios for certain AA and US Airways flights (namely those low level awards that AA and US Airways make available to their partners), but you can not directly use the points on AA and US Airways, nor can those points be combined with AA and US airways.
Thanks for the clarification, I'm still new to all of this. My travel schedule is extremely flexible and I only travel for leisure. I can go any time with no advance notice, so having to wait for a particular reward flight to show up isn't a big deal for me.
2stepsbehind
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:03 am

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by 2stepsbehind »

tedclu wrote:
I agree. I did a cost benefit analysis.

Once the miles hit your frequent flyer account, they cannot be clawed back.
That is incorrect. There are a number of stories in the past of Citibank initiating claw back actions. That they haven't done it recently does not mean they cannot do so.
VictoriaF wrote:
The two Citi AA cards I have do not charge the annual fee during the first year. I was going to cancel them close to the end of the year, when the fee would be due. From what you are writing, it seems preferable to cancel them as soon as possible (right after the bonus miles are posted on my account) to start the 18 months countdown. Is this a correct logic?

Victoria
The conventional wisdom is to keep the cards open for at least six months to mitigate the likelihood of adverse action.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by VictoriaF »

2stepsbehind wrote:The conventional wisdom is to keep the cards open for at least six months to mitigate the likelihood of adverse action.
Will do. Thank you again,

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
tedclu
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by tedclu »

2stepsbehind wrote:
tedclu wrote:
I agree. I did a cost benefit analysis.

Once the miles hit your frequent flyer account, they cannot be clawed back.
That is incorrect. There are a number of stories in the past of Citibank initiating claw back actions. That they haven't done it recently does not mean they cannot do so.
Maybe the reason why they have not done that in a Long time is because they realized that might not be right?

Again, it is like investing everyone has there on risk tolerance.
mak
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:46 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by mak »

I don't travel a lot and I don't spend much in legitimate expenses so for me it has to be almost all manufactured spend and I prefer cash bonuses to miles. Over many years I've done this a few times but it gets tedious and merchants and cards have implemented rules to make it more difficult. They are worried about fraud and money laundering.

That said, last year I had an offer from Wells Fargo for a card, no fee, with the bonus being 6 months of no limit accruals of points at 5% on all purchases at drug stores, grocery, and gas at the pump. Of course everyone knows you can buy gift cards at CVS using a credit card and by various means liquidate those and use the cash to repay the credit card, then rise and repeat.

Starting 1/2014 for 6 mos, my result is I purchased $150K in gift cards, earning $7500 in cash back via points. My costs for gift card fees and money order fees were $1500 so my net profit was $6000. I converted points to cash at each step until the end at which point I realized if you use them for travel booked online thru their rewards website directly, instead of going to cash first, the points convert at 1000 points equals $17.50 of air tickets not $10.00 of cash. Moral is for someone who travels a lot it would have been much better to bank the points and use them to buy tickets. My 750K points would have bought $13125 of air travel instead of the $7500 cash I took. Water under the bridge.

While this may sound great I can honestly say I got really tired of the game and the clerks at CVS arbitrarily making decisions on whether I was allowed to purchase cards with credit, there is no official policy and it isn't understood by their low level employees. The game is them profiling you as a suspicious character and saying no you can't buy. Also banks get uppity about you depositing money orders over and over to get your cash into a form that you can us to pay the credit card bills. And of course the good folks at Wells Fargo locked my card a couple of times with the offense I had committed being paying my account off in full multiple times before my statement even cycled.

But I guess it was worth it. I'm out of the game now, and I see CVS now limits people to $2K per day of purchases which was $5K before. The game is still possible but more difficult by the day.
Last edited by mak on Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tedclu
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by tedclu »

I missed my time with the wells 5% but not billpay at Walmart.


If I didn't have a job, I could have easily done 7x -10x of my 30k limit a month, instead of 4x.
mak
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:46 pm

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by mak »

I believe if you tried 7x or more you would have been shut down by WF long before 6 mos. I did 3x to 4x my $15K limit and was locked twice with calls from them wondering what is going on. All it takes is a human to look at the history and they will instantly know what you are up to and they close you down for abuse of promotion. That is one of the reasons I kept converting to cash and removing the cash from their bank accounts because of fear of claw back. I have seen letters posted online also of people whose entire banking relationship was severed with closing of checking accounts and inability to open any new accounts, blacklisted for life usually as a result of the dreaded financial review, where they want to see evidence of income sufficient to justify purchases so large. At 7x $30K you are talking $210K/mo over $2.5MM/year in spending. That's fine if you can show income of $5M/year I guess, I cannot.
2tall4economy
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Global

Re: Credit Card Rewards (Travel)

Post by 2tall4economy »

mak wrote:I don't travel a lot and I don't spend much in legitimate expenses so for me it has to be almost all manufactured spend and I prefer cash bonuses to miles. Over many years I've done this a few times but it gets tedious and merchants and cards have implemented rules to make it more difficult. They are worried about fraud and money laundering.

That said, last year I had an offer from Wells Fargo for a card, no fee, with the bonus being 6 months of no limit accruals of points at 5% on all purchases at drug stores, grocery, and gas at the pump. Of course everyone knows you can buy gift cards at CVS using a credit card and by various means liquidate those and use the cash to repay the credit card, then rise and repeat.

Starting 1/2014 for 6 mos, my result is I purchased $150K in gift cards, earning $7500 in cash back via points. My costs for gift card fees and money order fees were $1500 so my net profit was $6000. I converted points to cash at each step until the end at which point I realized if you use them for travel booked online thru their rewards website directly, instead of going to cash first, the points convert at 1000 points equals $17.50 of air tickets not $10.00 of cash. Moral is for someone who travels a lot it would have been much better to bank the points and use them to buy tickets. My 750K points would have bought $13125 of air travel instead of the $7500 cash I took. Water under the bridge.

While this may sound great I can honestly say I got really tired of the game and the clerks at CVS arbitrarily making decisions on whether I was allowed to purchase cards with credit, there is no official policy and it isn't understood by their low level employees. The game is them profiling you as a suspicious character and saying no you can't buy. Also banks get uppity about you depositing money orders over and over to get your cash into a form that you can us to pay the credit card bills. And of course the good folks at Wells Fargo locked my card a couple of times with the offense I had committed being paying my account off in full multiple times before my statement even cycled.

But I guess it was worth it. I'm out of the game now, and I see CVS now limits people to $2K per day of purchases which was $5K before. The game is still possible but more difficult by the day.
This. I racked up about 2 million airlines miles between delta and American airlines, and over a million points with marriott and got three lifetime (permanent) statuses with them in 2011/2012. Right after that the first real crack down happened and they blocked the lifetime status methods I was using and, just like ever year since, devalued my points.

I kept at it but soon found that, while you can theoretically redeem for much more than cash value via airline tickets, you can really only do that for business / first class long haul international flights, which I do Multiple times a year - so it seemed like a good idea. However, when you go to use them for such a flight, if not blacked out (common) you'll only get the good redemption on the miserable flights (ie 2am takeoff and 10 hour layover) vs the ones a sane person would actually pay for.

I've since burned up almost all my miles, and switched to a 2%'cash back card, which basically gives me the same amount of value or more, but also allows me to book decent flights on the most direct route airline.

All the changes they've made to their loyalty programs have completely eradicated my loyalty. The big bosses didn't think it through and lost a 95th percentile customer in the process. Ooooooops!
You can do anything you want in life. The rub is that there are consequences.
Post Reply