tipping by iPad

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letsgobobby
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tipping by iPad

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:15 pm

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/bu ... .html?_r=0

I have lost patience with this particular small business practice and have resorted to paying with cash if I see an iPad at the register and the purchase is small (under $20). Then I can leave the appropriate tip in cash or change without being guilted, tricked, or behaviorally influenced to leave a 45% tip for counter service. I can still leave a suitable (in my mind) tip of 0-10% tip and have concluded I spend less than if I used a credit card, net of the lost credit card rewards. The merchant also avoids the credit card merchant fees, so that's a win for the owner although not the employee (though in many small businesses this may be one and the same person).

I am also partly influenced by the knowledge that in my two states, Washington and Oregon, all waitstaff are paid at the full minimum wage, and the local minimum wage is considerably higher than the federal rate. Locally it is about $10 per hour; in Seattle it is moving to $15.

There are lots of tipping threads but I was hoping to focus primarily on the behavioral aspects of the iPad and other auto tipping devices.

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JPH
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by JPH » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:44 pm

This happened to me recently for the first time, and I didn't like it. They offered me the option to touch 15, 20 or 30% tip I believe. I went ahead and did it. But then, they offered only to send me a receipt by either email or text message. No paper receipt was available. What a pain!
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Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:50 pm

+1 Vote me in for the "that's ridiculous" price. If you want to sell a cup of coffee for $7 then make it readily apparent on your signage, but be prepared to go out of business rather quickly. I read in the WSJ yesterday that a tall Americano coffee from Starbucks uses exactly 3 cents worth of coffee beans in it, the selling price is $2.95 - just look at the markup on that. Unfortunately, we are the suckers who are willing to pay for that while we complain about mutual funds with er's of 14 bps being "too high". :oops:
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Toons
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Toons » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 pm

No thanks, do not need suggestive tipping advice.
I will be the decision maker as to how much I tip. :happy
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CABob
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by CABob » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 pm

I must not get out much since I have not seen this payment/tipping process and electronics. I must admit that I am not much of a tipper for serve yourself establishments and I would be offended if it were as blatant as described with "suggested" tips. Perhaps to the point that I would be looking for someplace else to do business with.
Bob

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mhc
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by mhc » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:06 pm

Fortunately, this non-sense has not come to my community. I have never seen an iPad used in a business.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:12 pm

Toons wrote:No thanks, do not need suggestive tipping advice.
I will be the decision maker as to how much I tip. :happy
My tip for someone making a 180 degree turn from the cash register, taking a paper cup (no less!), filling it and then placing a disposable lid on it before making one more 180 degree turn back to the cash register and telling me the price is $2.95 + tax is .......wait for it.........A Big FAT ZERO!! A tip is for doing some "extra and beyond normal service" The above service is a normal job, not something extraordinary. It's gotten out of control this tipping business. :annoyed
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KyleAAA
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by KyleAAA » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:20 pm

I don't tip for that service because is it not a social situation in which a tip is widely expected. So I just click "no tip."

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by cherijoh » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:24 pm

I usually don't tip on counter service beyond coins back, but I have occasionally attended meetings at sit-down restaurants and just ordered a beverage. In that case I do leave a minimum tip of $1 or $1.50 if the wait staff was especially diligent about checking on refills.

I think if these apps used more reasonable tip rates, I think people would be more amenable. (Some customer's math skills leave a lot to be desired and they need the cheat sheet). If it is a "pay at the cash register" deal, I usually try to leave my tip in cash at the table and I tell the cashier that I did so.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:37 pm

mhc wrote:Fortunately, this non-sense has not come to my community. I have never seen an iPad used in a business.
It's widespread here in Portland, and I think it's a cool tool for a small business - the credit card swiper is attached to the tablet, and it makes the ordering/billing/paying one seamless transaction. It's just the 'tipping' part I wish weren't so seamless.

Remember, this is stand up counter service. A sit down restaurant would be a different story, in my opinion.

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CABob
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by CABob » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:18 pm

mhc wrote:
Fortunately, this non-sense has not come to my community. I have never seen an iPad used in a business.
I have seen an iPad used in a sit down restaurant where the wait staff uses it to take order and to communicate with cooks and eventually to the cash register and printout of the bill. It seems to add to the efficiency.
Bob

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mhc
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by mhc » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:26 pm

CABob wrote:
mhc wrote:
Fortunately, this non-sense has not come to my community. I have never seen an iPad used in a business.
I have seen an iPad used in a sit down restaurant where the wait staff uses it to take order and to communicate with cooks and eventually to the cash register and printout of the bill. It seems to add to the efficiency.
I probably was not clear. The nonsense part was in reference to the tipping. I could care less if the workers use an iPad or not.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Afty » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:39 pm

Is it really that big of a deal? If you don't want to tip, just click the big "No tip" button.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by travellight » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:41 pm

I've seen this used in cabs as well. I am not sure what extra service cab drivers perform in general when they drive you from x to y other than managing bags in which case you can tip per bag.

letsgobobby
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:45 pm

Afty wrote:Is it really that big of a deal? If you don't want to tip, just click the big "No tip" button.
Have you used these a lot?

Two problems.

1. The "big not tip button" isn't as big as you think. It's certainly not as prominently displayed.
2. It's not that I don't want to tip; so in fact "no tip" is not the button I want. I want the button that says, "round up to the nearest dollar" or "10% before tax" or something along those lines. I haven't seen those big buttons, prominently displayed.

Because these are used at hip (and good) places that tend to be crowded and rushed, a sense of urgency is created in the consumer, which is well known to create an asymmetric decision-making environment favoring the retailer. If this same practice occurred on my Amazon.com order page, there would be no problem. I would be able to take my time to rationally calculate the proper tip, and to find the button in which to give it.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Trader Joe » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:57 pm

I skip all automated (and all non-automated) tipping devices. I simply never tip.

Afty
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Afty » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:57 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Afty wrote:Is it really that big of a deal? If you don't want to tip, just click the big "No tip" button.
Have you used these a lot?
Yes, I have actually -- they are pretty common where I live. Here's an image of the Square checkout UI:

Image

IMO the "No tip" button is pretty obvious, if shaped a bit differently from the other buttons. Typically these are used at places where I wouldn't tip anyway (counter service, coffee shops, etc.), so I don't feel guilty about clicking "No tip".

island
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by island » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:09 pm

Afty wrote:Is it really that big of a deal? If you don't want to tip, just click the big "No tip" button.
+1
Annoying maybe, but guilted, tricked, behavioral influenced? Oh come on, no one can force you to do anything and if you succumb to this "pressure", that on you. First world problem.

letsgobobby
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:13 pm

island wrote:
Afty wrote:Is it really that big of a deal? If you don't want to tip, just click the big "No tip" button.
+1
Annoying maybe, but guilted, tricked, behavioral influenced? Oh come on, no one can force you to do anything and if you succumb to this "pressure", that on you. First world problem.
Shrug. Science is science. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work, and science says anchoring, creating urgency, peer pressure, etc, all work; and furthermore, knowing all of these cognitive biases does not help us avoid them in real time.

I like my cash idea. It's actually been refreshing to get real American coins back.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by J295 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:23 pm

Age 55 .... I find the technology cool. It is very easy to use.

At this stage of our lives we have the resources to go out, and if we do then we enjoy tipping because the young workers likely have a greater need for the funds than we do.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by curmudgeon » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:37 pm

I find the attempt to establish tipping at counter service places with this model annoying, and I've tended to default back to paying with cash as a result. I'm not thrilled with the "email a receipt" bit either.

Along with the annoyance factor, I'm not as confident of the credit card security of some random ipad/iphone sales app either. While much of the security in the CC system is based on the fraud prevention algorithms at the issuer, I still worry about the potential for problems in these faster-moving apps.

island
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by island » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:45 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
island wrote:
Afty wrote:Is it really that big of a deal? If you don't want to tip, just click the big "No tip" button.
+1
Annoying maybe, but guilted, tricked, behavioral influenced? Oh come on, no one can force you to do anything and if you succumb to this "pressure", that on you. First world problem.
Shrug. Science is science. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work, and science says anchoring, creating urgency, peer pressure, etc, all work; and furthermore, knowing all of these cognitive biases does not help us avoid them in real time.

I like my cash idea. It's actually been refreshing to get real American coins back.
Shrug, my point exactly. Not worth getting worked up about.
Not denying it doesn't work on some people, same thing with advertising, peer pressure, product placement, all the other things that influence us all on a daily basis, but meh, doesn't mean I'm going to comply or feel my arm is being twisted to do so by the teenage stranger who's pouring the coffee.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by AAA » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:13 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:I read in the WSJ yesterday that a tall Americano coffee from Starbucks uses exactly 3 cents worth of coffee beans in it, the selling price is $2.95 - just look at the markup on that.
Well, the store has to maintain the equipment for making the coffee, has to pay utilities for using the equipment, the room lights, heat, etc. They have to pay their staff. Etc. So they may use 3 cents worth of coffee beans, but that doesn't mean it costs them 3 cents to make it.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by abuss368 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:15 pm

We have more and more small businesses around here that are using an Apple iPad as a cash register. Interesting.
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:39 pm

AAA wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:I read in the WSJ yesterday that a tall Americano coffee from Starbucks uses exactly 3 cents worth of coffee beans in it, the selling price is $2.95 - just look at the markup on that.
Well, the store has to maintain the equipment for making the coffee, has to pay utilities for using the equipment, the room lights, heat, etc. They have to pay their staff. Etc. So they may use 3 cents worth of coffee beans, but that doesn't mean it costs them 3 cents to make it.
Oh, you're right, let me adjust that cost figure - it's 3 cents of coffee and 7 cents for overhead. Total cost of making and packaging the cup of coffee is 10 cents.
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by TPS_Reports » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:19 pm

letsgobobby wrote: I like my cash idea. It's actually been refreshing to get real American coins back.
Yes, carry a $20 bill with you and don't use the cc

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Afty » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:55 am

Out of curiosity, why don't people like the emailed receipt? I *love* it -- it's one fewer piece of paper I have to keep track of.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by mhc » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:41 am

Afty wrote:Out of curiosity, why don't people like the emailed receipt? I *love* it -- it's one fewer piece of paper I have to keep track of.
I don't want to give out my email address. It takes time. It's nice at hotels when I am on business because I can turn in an electronic receipt. Much easier. If I am buying a cup of coffee, they really don't need my email address, and I really don't need a receipt.

I usually don't want a paper receipt either. I wish places would give the option of paper, electronic, or no receipt.

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Toons
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Toons » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:49 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:+1 Vote me in for the "that's ridiculous" price. If you want to sell a cup of coffee for $7 then make it readily apparent on your signage, but be prepared to go out of business rather quickly. I read in the WSJ yesterday that a tall Americano coffee from Starbucks uses exactly 3 cents worth of coffee beans in it, the selling price is $2.95 - just look at the markup on that. Unfortunately, we are the suckers who are willing to pay for that while we complain about mutual funds with er's of 14 bps being "too high". :oops:

Wow :shock:
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by niceguy7376 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:17 am

In suburban Atlanta area, NCR (ATM machine maker among other things) is pushing their ipad based small business check out software. Most of the new places that I went to in the last few months (I always try out new places and prefer to go to local shops than chains) are using this NCR software (maybe ipad is also included in the package).

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by poker27 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:50 am

letsgobobby wrote:
Afty wrote:Is it really that big of a deal? If you don't want to tip, just click the big "No tip" button.
Have you used these a lot?

Two problems.

1. The "big not tip button" isn't as big as you think. It's certainly not as prominently displayed.
2. It's not that I don't want to tip; so in fact "no tip" is not the button I want. I want the button that says, "round up to the nearest dollar" or "10% before tax" or something along those lines. I haven't seen those big buttons, prominently displayed.

Because these are used at hip (and good) places that tend to be crowded and rushed, a sense of urgency is created in the consumer, which is well known to create an asymmetric decision-making environment favoring the retailer. If this same practice occurred on my Amazon.com order page, there would be no problem. I would be able to take my time to rationally calculate the proper tip, and to find the button in which to give it.
These are pretty popular in my area now. First two times I encountered them I couldnt quickly find the 'no tip' option, and just selected 15 or 20%. After using them a few times I've finally found the 'no tip' option. I dont think anything is wrong with using the Ipad, or giving the option to tip, however no tip should be a bit easier to find.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by takeshi » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:47 pm

No big deal IMO. All the ones I've used -- including the one at my favorite coffee shop -- have a custom and no tip options and I enter the tip I want to leave if I feel like leaving one. I don't get the gripes about feeling rushed. It's your money and up to you to figure how you're willing to spend it. A few seconds isn't going to cause the shop to shut down.
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:I read in the WSJ yesterday that a tall Americano coffee from Starbucks uses exactly 3 cents worth of coffee beans in it, the selling price is $2.95 - just look at the markup on that.
You should probably avoid coming up with business models if you think the beans the only cost for Starbucks. Granted, I've factored in just about every cost in making lattes at home and come up with only ~60 cents per latte but that still doesn't account for all the costs a business has to incur. They're certainly making a hefty markup but it's not $2.92 per cup.
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:A tip is for doing some "extra and beyond normal service"
In this particular context it's typically for above & beyond but there are jobs in places where tips are considered part of regular pay.
Last edited by takeshi on Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

letsgobobby
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by letsgobobby » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:54 pm

Any paranoia about spit in your coffee when you don't tip? The expectation of tipping after the service made more sense for the customer.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Independent » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:16 pm

Tipping for counter service? I never buy expensive coffee, so there may be a whole culture thing here that I'm missing.
I figure that that the owner is responsible for paying workers a competitive salary.

But, paying with an iPad is odd, too. Actual greenbacks leaving my wallet tend to remind me that I'm spending money.
Make it too easy to pay and spending becomes too easy. (And, yes, I accept the paper receipt and stick it in my wallet.)

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by happyisland » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:54 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Oh, you're right, let me adjust that cost figure - it's 3 cents of coffee and 7 cents for overhead. Total cost of making and packaging the cup of coffee is 10 cents.
Isn't the customer also paying for the person behind the counter to prepare and serve the coffee? You would have to be running some insane volume to be able to sell an espresso-based drink with a 10 cent cost. If you can make that happen I want to invest in your startup coffee chain! :D

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Cash » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:19 pm

I always use the custom tip amount on those things bc the suggested ones are invariably too high. Same for cabs. If you don't want to wait for me to enter my tip amount, adjust your defaults.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by WHL » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:53 pm

AAA wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:I read in the WSJ yesterday that a tall Americano coffee from Starbucks uses exactly 3 cents worth of coffee beans in it, the selling price is $2.95 - just look at the markup on that.
Well, the store has to maintain the equipment for making the coffee, has to pay utilities for using the equipment, the room lights, heat, etc. They have to pay their staff. Etc. So they may use 3 cents worth of coffee beans, but that doesn't mean it costs them 3 cents to make it.
Starbucks also pays their employees quite well, provides benefits, tuition reimbursement, etc. They are absolutely a for-profit company but this isn't walmart or McDonald's here.

Regarding tipping - I hate it. Unless service is above average, I have really cut back on my tipping, even when it is expensed back to my company. It's ridiculous that I am expected to pay dollars extra for someone doing their job.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by TPS_Reports » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:13 pm

I tip at a coffee shop that I go to 1-2x a week by my home. If I'm on the road or in a different part of town, I wouldn't tip.

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Cosmo
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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by Cosmo » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:15 pm

Slightly off-topic but has anyone noticed the iPads at the table at Chili's restaurants? Apparently, you can now order food directly from the iPad (or tablet) device and they will bring it out directly. My nine year old noticed that he could play video games on it. "Yay!", he says. "Yay!" I said. "That will be $2.99", the waiter said when we were ready to leave.

Cosmo

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by HIinvestor » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:49 am

I was guilted into tipping for takeout service a few times, but usually I do NOT tip for counter or takeout servcie. If that isn't included in the cost of the items purchased, the restaurant needs to rethink. I do tip if they bring the food to us and refill water and other beverages or are a regular sit down restaurant. I also can't stand seeing tip jars pretty much everywhere.

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Re: tipping by iPad

Post by island » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:40 pm

HIinvestor wrote:I was guilted into tipping for takeout service a few times.....
How so?

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