Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

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carorun
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Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by carorun »

I have a trip to Germany and Israel coming up soon, and I understand that many payment terminals in Europe only accept chip and PIN cards now. I've requested chipped replacements for some of my CC's, but I understand they use a chip and signature technology that is not always compatible with the European card readers. Can I use the chip and signature cards in unmanned payment terminals (ie train stations) or should I prepare to have euros available?

I've been doing some reading on chip adoption in the US, and it seems like most US card issuers are issuing chip and signature cards...not chip and PIN, even though PIN is much safer.
Miakis
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by Miakis »

Have you asked any of your credit card companies if a PIN is available?

On a couple of my chipped cards, the small print on the welcome documents have said that I can request a PIN if I need one.
takeshi
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by takeshi »

Be careful with that. PIN's can be provided for cash advances at ATM's for chip & signature cards but those PIN's cannot be used for purchases and do not turn a chip & signature card into a chip & PIN card. Make sure you're very clear on the PIN you're requesting.

There are some cards that default to chip & signature and can fall back on chip & PIN.

I'd suggest using FlyerTalk as a resource on this topic.
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rob
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by rob »

Have a few different cards and some extra cash.... It just does not work like the credit card companies prattle on about..... On a couple of different trips, I've had issues without a real pin (and it's not the pin that most banks will issue... that's for cash advances in an atm).
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
curmudgeon
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by curmudgeon »

Metro station automated ticket machine in Spain didn't take either my standard US swipe card or my chip-and-signature card. It wasn't a surprise to me, so I just used cash. No problems in stores and restaurants with my standard swipe card. I try to minimize my use of credit card for small purchases when traveling to give fewer chances for fraud issues, so I tend to carry some cash.
THY4373
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by THY4373 »

The only true chip and pin cards that I think are available in the US are the recently reopened (though applications are currently suspended again) consumer Dinner's Club cards (they are really Mastercards) issued by BMO Harris in Canada but they come with annual fees. I got in while applications were open but the card hasn't arrived yet. The chip and pin was secondary to what I was getting it for. Also so far from what I have read their fraud detection is very high strung and it can take days to get it unlocked so at the moment I would not recommend relying on them for purchases overseas but that may change in the future if they get their algorithms sorted out.
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Ketawa
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by Ketawa »

The PenFed Platinum Cash Rewards and the Barclaycard Arrival Plus are both good options for Chip + PIN and no foreign transaction fees. I have both and I remember setting my PIN on the PenFed Platinum Cash Rewards. For some reason, I can't remember setting a PIN on the Barclaycard Arrival Plus nor receiving one in the mail, but it's possible that I did. Some other options listed here, although most of the rest have more difficult points/miles redemption or foreign transaction fees: http://thepointsguy.com/2014/05/a-rundo ... echnology/.
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JamesSFO
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by JamesSFO »

PenFed card works in unattended kiosks throughout Europe, you do set PIN when applying for the card and recently when we were there in last 90 days, didn't get prompted for PIN even.
Sidney
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by Sidney »

JamesSFO wrote:PenFed card works in unattended kiosks throughout Europe, you do set PIN when applying for the card and recently when we were there in last 90 days, didn't get prompted for PIN even.
So much for security.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.
adamthesmythe
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by adamthesmythe »

Can't speak about Germany, but on a recent trip to Austria I had no difficulty with ordinary US credit cards. Having some spare cash is a good idea however. I'm not sure it's worth fussing about...and why get more than one card of this type?
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bertilak
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by bertilak »

I recently went to Germany and got AMEX to send me a new card with a chi before I went. The card worked fine in the places I went -- except for ATMs. I called AMEX for help and they gave me a one-time PIN over the phone (or possibly SSM, I forget) to use at the ATM. Since I was headed home shortly the one-time PIN was all I needed. I then established a real pin that got mailed to me a few days later.

I had to sign to use the card at stores since I wasn't clever enough to establish a PIN before I left. One store clerk told me that there were many places in Germany that still accepted the older (no chip) cards.
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pshonore
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by pshonore »

Last month in Paris I used my chip enabled Penfed Visa Card - always got asked for a signature even though the card has a PIN (I think the PIN is for US cash advances only but not sure). I did not try to use it "unattended". My plain old BOA ATM card worked in ATM's. No chip but like all ATM/Debit cards it does have a PIN which I had to key in.

ps: Don't forget to notify your CC issuer of your travel plans
rooms222
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by rooms222 »

I have read the entire 500 page Flyertalk thread, and it is pretty clear that using the "cash advance" PIN will NOT be coded as a cash advance if used for purchases in Europe. Many CSRs give inaccurate information on this point. The PIN works only with some Chip and Signature cards that have PIN capability as secondary. This includes USAA, a bunch of credit unions using the same provider (PenFed, SDFCU, and Andrews Credit Union), Barclay's Arrival (the one with the Annual Fee only), and a few others. The only true Chip and Pin priority cards in the US right now are Diners Club ($95 annual fee and not taking applications again until 12/1) and the United Nations FCU (Anyone can join by joining UN-USA for $25).


There are several routes a payment can take- The chip and signature cards put signature first priority, and spit out a signature slip, unless the terminal takes something called CVM. In CVM, small purchases are approved without signature (like most chain drugstores in the US that just spit out a receipt without signing if you buy less than $25). If the terminal has that setting turned on and the card has that as a possible payment avenue, then a chip and signature will be approved without a PIN while inserting it in the slot. Not all US issued chip and signature cards have this avenue on its priority list built in the card but some do. Some have online PIN built in and some have offline pin built in. Flyertalk has the specifics of each card somewhere in the thread. The best cards for usability are the two mentioned above. Even those two will not work everywhere.
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Allocationist
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by Allocationist »

Just returned from Europe and travel through eight countries including Germany. Used my magnetic strip (no chip) Schwab cash account card to get cash from ATMs on ten or more occasions. Never had a problem. Used my magnetic strip (no chip) CapitalOne Quicksilver card most every day- usually at restaurants. Never had a problem. Took along my Fido AMEX "chip" card for backup but never needed/used it.
Sidney
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by Sidney »

Allocationist wrote:Just returned from Europe and travel through eight countries including Germany. Used my magnetic strip (no chip) Schwab cash account card to get cash from ATMs on ten or more occasions. Never had a problem. Used my magnetic strip (no chip) CapitalOne Quicksilver card most every day- usually at restaurants. Never had a problem. Took along my Fido AMEX "chip" card for backup but never needed/used it.
Most places that are attended by humans aren't a big problem. The problem comes at unattended places like gas stations, train stations, parking lots etc. where there are no people.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.
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batpot
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Re: Chip and Signature (not PIN) in Europe

Post by batpot »

Some countries are worse than others; rarely had an issue using my Cap One w/out a chip, but when it didn't work, my debit card did (also no chip, but obviously a PIN).
I'd highly recommend Ally bank or a Credit Union, as they tend to have the lowest foreign transaction fees for cash (Ally is only 1%).
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