Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

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Dazed
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Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by Dazed »

Anybody been to Europe lately? I plan to travel to the UK and France (3 weeks) armed with a chip-and-signature Citi credit card, Capital One non-chip credit card, and a non-chip Wells Fargo debit card. After much research, I am still having difficulty ascertaining whether these cards will be accepted, as these countries are chip-and-pin card territory. On-line general advice runs the gamut from stating that my cards will be fine, to oh,oh...no chip-and-pin card? Big problem. Called my card companies and of course, all of them said I will have no problem using their cards, chip or not. I'm not so sure. Any advice from you foreign travellers out there would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance.
mhalley
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by mhalley »

The biggest problem so far seems to be with paying for stuff at unmanned kiosks. If you aren't renting a car so you have to pay for gas, or getting train tickets during off hours, you should be fine.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Just got back. Used my PenFed card and a new USAA card, but sure had to sign a lot. Ran into a real issue once or twice at a toll booth where I couldn't get it to take any card I had. An attendant eventually came over and took cash. No big deal.

Good luck finding a card that really works well. True chip and pin is pretty rare in the US. Chip and sig may be as good as you get.

Europeans are much more into cash than we are by the way. I never carry more than $20 or so here and rarely use it. Was using cash all the time there.
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64415
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by 64415 »

I just returned from a long trip to Europe this summer. I took a Chase Sapphire Chip and Signature, and a PenFed Chip and PIN. Both cards were accepted without any difficulties in France and England. Interestingly, I was never once asked for my PIN number on the the PenFed Chip and PIN card, I was always asked for my signature. Both cards also worked in the automatic tollbooths on the French tollways. I think the important thing is to have the Chip. The PIN versus signature was irrelevant in Great Britian, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Macedonia. My non chip magnetic strip ATM card was accepted at most (75%) ATM machines in GB, and 100% of the ATM's in France, D was problematic in this regard. I probably had a 50% rejection rate in D at ATM's when I tried to use my magnetic strip non chip bank ATM/debit card.

I never once tried my magnetic strip credit cards, because I didnt want the laser burns thru the back of my skull from the angry patrons waiting behind me while I argued with the clerk about the legitimacy of a magnetic strip card and how to process it.

If I were you I would get another Chip and signature card and diversify across CC companies. That is make sure you have a VISA and MC, or VISA and Discover, or some such combination.

To reiterate, the Chip and Signature is all you need, even at tollbooths. Your magnetic strip ATM card will work at ATM machines to obtain cash in France, and most of the ATM machine's in GB.
Carl53
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by Carl53 »

I sent an inquiry to PenFed about how to force the card to go Chip/Pin vs Chip/Signature. I included much of 64415's reply in the note to them. Their response follows:
Thank you for contacting Pentagon Federal Credit Union.

Our Credit Card department has advised that per Visa recommendation, PenFed has
chosen to have chip cards work in the following order:

If a member is at a merchant that has a person present at the terminal it will
prompt for the member to sign and not for the PIN. The chip card will only
prompt the member for their PIN if they are at an un-manned kiosk such as an
ATM, train ticket booth, etc.

According to our Credit Card department, there are a few ways that chip cards
can be setup by financial institutions and PenFed has chosen to setup the
PIN/Signature order for our chip cards based on Visa's recommendation. There are
currently no plans for PenFed to change the PIN/Signature order for our chip
cards.
dolphinsaremammals
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

Does anyone know about this for Denmark?
Wolkenspiel
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by Wolkenspiel »

I spent two months in Europe this summer (8 countries), armed with a collection of non-chip credit and debit cards. The only hardship i encountered was having to pay with cash on French toll-roads. It also took me a while to realize that when prompted for a PIN by hand-held card readers in restaurants etc, I could just hit enter without providing a PIN and the transaction would be processed and verified with a signature. While I also came across some German ATMs that didn't like my debit card, the 50% number quoted earlier is too low.

If you plan to travel the French, Italian or Swiss country-side late at night, you might want to make sure you have a full tank of gas (although in Italy and Switzerland, there usually is a cash option at unattended gas stations). I always keep some cash in hand for such cases, and to pay in small restaurants, shops and supermarkets that often don't take credit cards.
crg11
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by crg11 »

I've been to England 4 times in the past 2.5 years and never had an issue with my Chip+Signature credit card (Chase Marriott Rewards). And the few times I used an ATM my debt card with a regular old magnetic strip worked fine.

You will get looked at like you have two heads if you use a magnetic strip only card at a store.
dickenjb
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by dickenjb »

Just spent 2 weeks in CH, D, F. Mag strip cards only. Only ran into issues at French toll booths and unattended petrol stations. Carry cash for the tolls and fill your car during the day. At train stations you may have to pay a 50 euro cent upcharge to buy a ticket from a live person.
dgdevil
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by dgdevil »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:Does anyone know about this for Denmark?
Just got back from Denmark. Credit cards require a pin, or will be useless. There is no signature option. Many frustrated new arrivals at the airport learn this when trying to buy train tickets at the kiosk. For me, I was at the supermarket checkout with a trolley full of groceries. Card would not work, so had to leave all the groceries there. Sweden, by contrast, gives you the signature option. I never used cash once there. Loved Sweden, hated Denmark.
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JamesSFO
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by JamesSFO »

Carl53 wrote:I sent an inquiry to PenFed about how to force the card to go Chip/Pin vs Chip/Signature. I included much of 64415's reply in the note to them. Their response follows:
Thank you for contacting Pentagon Federal Credit Union.

Our Credit Card department has advised that per Visa recommendation, PenFed has
chosen to have chip cards work in the following order:

If a member is at a merchant that has a person present at the terminal it will
prompt for the member to sign and not for the PIN. The chip card will only
prompt the member for their PIN if they are at an un-manned kiosk such as an
ATM, train ticket booth, etc.

According to our Credit Card department, there are a few ways that chip cards
can be setup by financial institutions and PenFed has chosen to setup the
PIN/Signature order for our chip cards based on Visa's recommendation. There are
currently no plans for PenFed to change the PIN/Signature order for our chip
cards.
Ironically, in Mexico I've used my PenFed card in stores and it worked as Chip & PIN. So go figure.
stan1
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by stan1 »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:Does anyone know about this for Denmark?
Denmark is a huge problem. Hotels are fine, but you should plan to use cash at restaurants although finding ATM machines can also be hard and you will find places that do not take cash (kiosks). Everywhere you go you will need to make sure you have a way to pay before you commit. I always get more cash than I expect I'll need in Denmark and use what's left over on my last day to pay down my hotel bill before charging the balance on my credit card. If you are taking the Copenhagen Metro or train system buy tickets at the Airport or day passes at your hotel as you won't be able to buy tickets at stations.

I realize this is in violation of vendor agreements with VISA and Mastercard -- but they are not enforcing it so the consumer is the one out of luck.

I have yet to hear of anyone successfully using a US chip and pin card at unmanned kiosks in Denmark. Until you hear specific examples of it working you have to assume it is not.

UK and France should be OK at restaurants, but watch for unmanned kiosks (parking garages, gas stations, toll roads). Those can be problems and there isn't always an attendant to help.
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VictoriaF
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by VictoriaF »

In 2013, I traveled around Slovakia with a PIN-Chip VISA from the State Department Federal Credit Union. Invariably, store owners were swiping my card and asking for a signature.

In 2014, I traveled around Switzerland with regular credit cards with a magnetic stripe. Most places accepted it. In one restaurant, the waiter asked me to come with her to the credit card machine.

Based on these experiences, I am planning to stay with the regular credit cards until all the kinks of PIN-and-Chip are worked out.

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Topic Author
Dazed
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by Dazed »

OP here...thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Sounds like, in the UK at least, that I may only have problems @ unmanned kiosks that require chip/pin. I am not renting a car, so no problems with toll roads and petrol. (see, I'm already talking like a Brit...haha.) Really my biggest worry is the potential that I will not be able to withdraw cash from UK ATMs with my non-chipped Wells Fargo Visa debit card but now my understanding is that debit cards do not need chips. Whole different animal than credit cards. Am I correct in that assumption? If I can get get cash, I feel I'll be fine.
I must say that I am a bit frustrated to find that the Capital One card that I got specifically for my trip, because of their heavy advertising of no foreign transaction fees, came with no chip. What? They tell me they are rolling out chipped pins late this year but too late for me. I'm no fan of theirs right now. But on to my last questions- Do you think it's worth getting another chipped card (I only have one right now that carries a 3% FTF) for a 3 week trip? Frankly, at home I only carry one credit card and like the simplicity of that. Anybody get a card strictly for international travel then cancel it after trip? Any advice is appeciated. Perhaps I'm over-thinking this (an affliction of mine) but will be travelling alone so no one to confer/commiserate with if card issues arise.
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Steelersfan
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by Steelersfan »

Dazed wrote:Do you think it's worth getting another chipped card (I only have one right now that carries a 3% FTF) for a 3 week trip? Frankly, at home I only carry one credit card and like the simplicity of that. Anybody get a card strictly for international travel then cancel it after trip? Any advice is appeciated. Perhaps I'm over-thinking this (an affliction of mine) but will be travelling alone so no one to confer/commiserate with if card issues arise.
I got a new Capital One credit card earlier this year to take advantage of no foreign transaction fee, plus the cash back rewards.

I've traveling to Germany for two weeks next month. I'm not getting any other card, except I'll have my bank issued debit card for ATM access. I'll use the Capital One card where ever I can and cash for everything else.

I'm OK with that.
64415
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by 64415 »

"Really my biggest worry is the potential that I will not be able to withdraw cash from UK ATMs with my non-chipped Wells Fargo Visa debit card."

You have nothing to worry about. The magnetic strip bank debit card from my small midwest bank worked at the majority of ATM's I tried in London. I can only think of one ATM at the Paddington train station that rejected me, but there was one 20 yards away that accepted my card. I tried to avoid getting cash because I had a .8% foreign conversion fee with my debit/ATM card.
dgdevil
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by dgdevil »

Dazed wrote: ... my understanding is that debit cards do not need chips ... If I can get get cash, I feel I'll be fine.
Correct. You'll be fine.
Dazed wrote:Perhaps I'm over-thinking this (an affliction of mine) but will be travelling alone so no one to confer/commiserate with if card issues arise.
I am also afflicted. But you can always find a friendly Brit to complain to, gently.
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marbleous
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by marbleous »

I also recommend cash in Denmark. I was able to use a chip (no PIN) for a few purchases, but quickly figured out that EVERY credit card purchase charged a 1.5-2% fee. Every retailer was reversing the credit card usage fee (the one retailers usually pay, but the consumer never sees). I assume this was legal/permitted, because every retailer was doing it.
slbnoob
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by slbnoob »

I returned from a trip to a few places in Europe recently and here is my experience.

My PenFed VISA Rewards card was the only card I used everywhere since it has Chip+Pin and 0% FTF and as I now see, reasonable forex rates.

Iceland is virtually a cashless country. We didn't exchange $ for kronas and did fine for 8 days throughout the countries, even for the smallest purchases. Weirdly, in most places in Iceland, our card was recognised as a Chip+Signature and so I was asked to sign receipts almost everywhere except our final transaction (car rental, filling up gas tank, entered Pin) before flying out. However I was bummed when my card wasn't able to make transaction at an automated gas station (beyond closing hours). That had me thinking that my card isn't really recognised as Pin car.

However then we went onto France, Belgium, Netherlands and our card worked flawlessly at the automated ticket booths where we entered the Pin. Most other places, it was still seen as a signature card and I signed. I did notice on many POS terminals, that the card was immediately recognised as being from the US and the language changed to English. Perhaps that is why it defaulted to the Signature feature and in the instance of the Iceland gas station, just didn't accept my Pin (provided or even 0000).

On a related note, I was able to use my local CU provided Debit card with no chip at an HSBC ATM in France to withdraw euros.
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ryuns
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by ryuns »

Just got back from UK and Ireland, among other places, and used chip and signature almost everywhere, but there were numerous instances where not having a chip at all would have been trouble. Never had a transaction turned down with chip and pin. The UK/Ireland were very credit card friendly, while Germany and Belgium, it was generally frowned upon so I was very happy to have an ATM card (Schwab, plus my wife's Fidelity) that refunded ATM fees, so we never had to carry more than a couple hundred euros. Nice not to have to use cash in the UK because those dang pound notes and coins never stopped confusing me. Everything is a random size. I guess that's the advantage of starting your currency from scratch like the EU is that they made everything incredibly intuitive.

Have a great trip.
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
likegarden
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by likegarden »

I traveled to Germany last year for 6 days. My hotel and a large department store (Karstadt) accepted my standard Capital One credit card. Otherwise I paid cash.
sambb
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by sambb »

Just back from europe. Sure major dept stores and hotels take credit cards. But I had difficulty in ATMs, restaurants, smaller places, even train kiosks without a PIN. I am still puzzled on how to do this. It is very different from 5 years ago.
killjoy2012
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Re: Help-Do I need a chip/pin card in europe?

Post by killjoy2012 »

I've been all over northern & western Europe. While having a chip & PIN cc is certainly nice to have, very rarely is it required. The only time I've had a problem using a magnetic swipe cc was in Denmark. I wouldn't sweat it - just carry some cash on you as a backup, and plan to use the cc as primary.

And I would +1 to people's experiences with the supposed PenFed "chip & PIN" credit cards. I frequently visit Canada, and every time I use the card, I'm always asked to sign. Pretty much the same in Europe too. Yes, it has a chip which makes it more compatible if the retailer only has an "insert" type reader... but for whatever reason, most machines recognize the PenFed cc as chip & signature. I have no issues with the PenFed card and recommend it to others, but don't think it's some "must have" holy grail for the American traveling internationally.

Lastly, my ATM card is only magnetic swipe and I've never run into an ATM that it wasn't accepted - including Denmark.
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