Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
User avatar
Zabar
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:05 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Zabar » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:02 am

lululu wrote:
Zabar wrote: I find it fascinating and somewhat depressing whenever I've tried to talk about personal finance with other people. Most of the time it's met with defensiveness at some level. I got a call today from an old friend who's in financial trouble because of some medical bills. She has a great marriage, two successful children attending top colleges, and an incredible career. But she told me that her debts make her feel like a complete failure. I asked her if she had considered filing for bankruptcy. Hers is exactly the type of situation for which personal bankruptcy was designed. "But it would ruin my FICO score," she replied.
No medical insurance, or was it swamped by the bills?
No medical insurance. She was between jobs; he was self-employed in NYC. The bills came in before ACA was available.

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 5284
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheTimeLord » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:20 am

Zabar wrote:
lululu wrote:
Zabar wrote: I find it fascinating and somewhat depressing whenever I've tried to talk about personal finance with other people. Most of the time it's met with defensiveness at some level. I got a call today from an old friend who's in financial trouble because of some medical bills. She has a great marriage, two successful children attending top colleges, and an incredible career. But she told me that her debts make her feel like a complete failure. I asked her if she had considered filing for bankruptcy. Hers is exactly the type of situation for which personal bankruptcy was designed. "But it would ruin my FICO score," she replied.
No medical insurance, or was it swamped by the bills?
No medical insurance. She was between jobs; he was self-employed in NYC. The bills came in before ACA was available.
And before COBRA?
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 5284
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheTimeLord » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:31 am

I find it fascinating how many people here have answered a question about talking their personal financial goals with what sounds like efforts to sell BH philosphy to others and it being met with resistance. When I asked the origianl question, I was thinking about talking like this "hey, finally got my emergency fund fully funded" or "you know it has been a good year, I am now ahead of pace for reaching my number". It never occured to me to make it about investment/savings philosphy. But as a result of this thread I did text the friend who occasionally has the task of listening to me and my travails as I prusue retirement and thank him for being there and let him know how valuable his friendship is to me. FYI, my wife doesn't really care, says she can't picture actualy being able to retire so just let her know when she can.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:29 am

StarbuxInvestor wrote:I find it fascinating how many people here have answered a question about talking their personal financial goals with what sounds like efforts to sell BH philosphy to others and it being met with resistance. When I asked the origianl question, I was thinking about talking like this "hey, finally got my emergency fund fully funded" or "you know it has been a good year, I am now ahead of pace for reaching my number". It never occured to me to make it about investment/savings philosphy. But as a result of this thread I did text the friend who occasionally has the task of listening to me and my travails as I prusue retirement and thank him for being there and let him know how valuable his friendship is to me. FYI, my wife doesn't really care, says she can't picture actualy being able to retire so just let her know when she can.
Where does the conversation go after "Hey, I'm ahead of pace for reaching my number." "Cool, that's great."? Inevitably shouldn't it go to seeking and receiving information from each other about how and why? So even if "how much" is left discreetly off-limits, you're into philosophy.

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 5284
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheTimeLord » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:48 am

Ivygirl wrote:
StarbuxInvestor wrote:I find it fascinating how many people here have answered a question about talking their personal financial goals with what sounds like efforts to sell BH philosphy to others and it being met with resistance. When I asked the origianl question, I was thinking about talking like this "hey, finally got my emergency fund fully funded" or "you know it has been a good year, I am now ahead of pace for reaching my number". It never occured to me to make it about investment/savings philosphy. But as a result of this thread I did text the friend who occasionally has the task of listening to me and my travails as I prusue retirement and thank him for being there and let him know how valuable his friendship is to me. FYI, my wife doesn't really care, says she can't picture actualy being able to retire so just let her know when she can.
Where does the conversation go after "Hey, I'm ahead of pace for reaching my number." "Cool, that's great."? Inevitably shouldn't it go to seeking and receiving information from each other about how and why? So even if "how much" is left discreetly off-limits, you're into philosophy.
We may talk a little back and forth about philosphy to the extent I don't buy individual stocks any more I just index or something of that nature but for me it never enters into the realm of you should or shouldn't do something. We do this to the extent we have curiousity about why one of us did something but really we talk more about society as a whole and financial decisions other unnamed people or people in general make. I think that let's us talk about things without getting too much into each othes business. But we both know each others "number" and talk about when we plan to retire or where we just avoid telling each other how to do it. I really can't imagine approaching co-workers or anyone in my family to talk about investments or saving.

But to answer your direct question, no I don't really think it does have to inevitably go to seeking and receiving information from each other about how and why. For me these conversations serve an emotional need to be able to discuss my happiness or my fear, it isn't about the mechanincs. We both have our beliefs on how we should handle our finances and have very different family financial situations. It is just about having someone there who will listen without judgement and discuss in an abstracted manner.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:01 am

So we all want somebody to talk to, but nobody wants to actually reveal anything important, or risk discomfort?

Lots of "moats" have been built around here. I think I'll keep being open to conversations about money and financial goals. Somebody has to talk, somebody has to take a chance on their fellow human beings, or else all human interaction may someday be confined to the internet.

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 5284
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheTimeLord » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:09 am

Ivygirl wrote:So we all want somebody to talk to, but nobody wants to actually reveal anything important, or risk discomfort?

Lots of "moats" have been built around here. I think I'll keep being open to conversations about money and financial goals. Somebody has to talk, somebody has to take a chance on their fellow human beings, or else all human interaction may someday be confined to the internet.
There is a huge difference in talking to people and talking at people. Respecting the listener to me is of the utmost importance when discussing subjects that can become uncomfortable. And yeah it is nice to have someone I can tell the odometer rolledover another unit and have them be sincerely happy for me instead of reminding me that while that is true remember you could lose 50% of your equity holdings in a flash.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:15 am

StarbuxInvestor wrote:
Ivygirl wrote:So we all want somebody to talk to, but nobody wants to actually reveal anything important, or risk discomfort?

Lots of "moats" have been built around here. I think I'll keep being open to conversations about money and financial goals. Somebody has to talk, somebody has to take a chance on their fellow human beings, or else all human interaction may someday be confined to the internet.
There is a huge difference in talking to people and talking at people. Respecting the listener to me is of the utmost importance when discussing subjects that can become uncomfortable. And yeah it is nice to have someone I can tell the odometer rolledover another unit and have them be sincerely happy for me instead of reminding me that while that is true remember you could lose 50% of your equity holdings in a flash.
Now nobody is advocating being rude or browbeating. But I believe the Bogleheads philosophy is a good one. If somebody pushes at me in conversation ("the stock market is immoral, and you shouldn't invest in it"), they've given me the right to respond, and to stick up for the truth as I have come to understand it. We can't just confine ourselves to talking with nice people who are always happy for us. Sometimes you gotta stand your ground: respectfully but firmly, and give them something to think about.

johnnybh
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by johnnybh » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:21 am

I talk quite frequently about index funds and investing strategies to those around me. I have had great discussions with friends, co-workers, and family members about Vanguard/index funds/day traders/CDs/retirement/housing/credit cards/depreciation of cars. I find it an intellectual stimulating topic, especially with someone who has a different view points.

Is this so unusual?

Specific numbers? I have only discussed with my dad, who is also a boglehead. My friends know that I believe in index funds, that I am very frugal, and that I am saving for retirement but no one knows how much. My work place is fairly open about how much each of us got for bonuses but we still don't really talk about how much we are taking home at the end of the year. Savings levels seem like a bad idea to talk about.

chloes3ra
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:43 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by chloes3ra » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:25 am

I think it is so important to be able to have someone to talk to about making your financial goals, someone besides your partner or spouse. I can understand how it may seem taboo, and that it may sound like bragging, but you may be surprised at how your friends and family react to your financial success. A few years ago, my husband and I made a chart of our debt and posted it on our wall, back when we lived in a one bedroom loft in Boston. Anyone who visited, mostly friends and family, would walk in and see our Debt Rocketship which consisted of a few hundred boxes. With each $100 we put toward the debt to pay it down, we would mark off one box on the poster. I found this extremely helpful! Friends and family would ask us how we were doing, cheer us on, and when we were finally debt free, we announced it on Facebook. We inspired a good number of our friends to get out of debt. My parents even went cash-only and cut up their credit cards, for a time. And no one has asked us for money. Yet.

I say, find someone you love and trust who isn't your spouse or partner, and share your thoughts and goals with them. How they react may inform your friendship in positive ways.

MnD
Posts: 3586
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:41 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by MnD » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:46 am

Spouse, and financially like-minded friend at work and one sibling.
We've learned from each other and have shared financial tools and techniques (inherited IRA details, backdoor Roth, retirement planning spreadsheets, tax-loss harvesting).

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 5284
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheTimeLord » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:51 am

Ivygirl wrote:
StarbuxInvestor wrote:
Ivygirl wrote:So we all want somebody to talk to, but nobody wants to actually reveal anything important, or risk discomfort?

Lots of "moats" have been built around here. I think I'll keep being open to conversations about money and financial goals. Somebody has to talk, somebody has to take a chance on their fellow human beings, or else all human interaction may someday be confined to the internet.
There is a huge difference in talking to people and talking at people. Respecting the listener to me is of the utmost importance when discussing subjects that can become uncomfortable. And yeah it is nice to have someone I can tell the odometer rolledover another unit and have them be sincerely happy for me instead of reminding me that while that is true remember you could lose 50% of your equity holdings in a flash.
Now nobody is advocating being rude or browbeating. But I believe the Bogleheads philosophy is a good one. If somebody pushes at me in conversation ("the stock market is immoral, and you shouldn't invest in it"), they've given me the right to respond, and to stick up for the truth as I have come to understand it. We can't just confine ourselves to talking with nice people who are always happy for us. Sometimes you gotta stand your ground: respectfully but firmly, and give them something to think about.
Stand your ground? Why, no one can push you into investing in a way you don't believe. Why do you feel you need to firmly pushback, just say I see it differently. That way if they want a conversation they have an opening if they just want to argue you can walk away because you haven't engaged them. I am going to let you in on one of the most important things I have ever learned in life, do with it what you will. Being right is the most overrate thing in life. People poison more relationships because of the need to be right than any other thing. Distinctions without differences and meaningless differences in results are not worth it. If you want to learn a skill that will make you successful, learn how to guide people to the right answer without you telling them what it is. In my experience that will make you both a valuable and a desirable team member.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

GeauxBR
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:53 pm
Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by GeauxBR » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:46 am

Out of our main group of friends (4 couples) I talk to one of them about our finances. We both own small businesses and are of the same boglehead mindset. We mainly just talk about hitting small goals and vent to each other about the "joys" of family business.

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:49 am

StarbuxInvestor wrote:
Ivygirl wrote:
StarbuxInvestor wrote:
Ivygirl wrote:So we all want somebody to talk to, but nobody wants to actually reveal anything important, or risk discomfort?

Lots of "moats" have been built around here. I think I'll keep being open to conversations about money and financial goals. Somebody has to talk, somebody has to take a chance on their fellow human beings, or else all human interaction may someday be confined to the internet.
There is a huge difference in talking to people and talking at people. Respecting the listener to me is of the utmost importance when discussing subjects that can become uncomfortable. And yeah it is nice to have someone I can tell the odometer rolledover another unit and have them be sincerely happy for me instead of reminding me that while that is true remember you could lose 50% of your equity holdings in a flash.
Now nobody is advocating being rude or browbeating. But I believe the Bogleheads philosophy is a good one. If somebody pushes at me in conversation ("the stock market is immoral, and you shouldn't invest in it"), they've given me the right to respond, and to stick up for the truth as I have come to understand it. We can't just confine ourselves to talking with nice people who are always happy for us. Sometimes you gotta stand your ground: respectfully but firmly, and give them something to think about.
Stand your ground? Why, no one can push you into investing in a way you don't believe. Why do you feel you need to firmly pushback, just say I see it differently. That way if they want a conversation they have an opening if they just want to argue you can walk away because you haven't engaged them. I am going to let you in on one of the most important things I have ever learned in life, do with it what you will. Being right is the most overrate thing in life. People poison more relationships because of the need to be right than any other thing. Distinctions without differences and meaningless differences in results are not worth it. If you want to learn a skill that will make you successful, learn how to guide people to the right answer without you telling them what it is. In my experience that will make you both a valuable and a desirable team member.
I believe what you are describing is an ego mud-wrestling match. That is not what I am talking about.

There cannot be authentic communication if the persons involved are not being authentic. And I did say, "I see it differently." To which she responded, "Why?" So I answered her question, authentically.

You know there is one absolutely invaluable member on every team: the one that does not just nod and go along.

harikaried
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by harikaried » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:37 pm

Reading a bunch of the comments seem to give me a sense of people have different concepts of financial goals, or at least there one main unspeakable goal of saving some large amount of money that shouldn't be discussed with others.

But financial goals could also fall into being able to take a vacation or buying new furniture or giving a certain amount of gifts/donations. Perhaps they're not as interesting goals as quite a few people here probably already have enough savings or available cashflow to pay for those items, so an explicit goal isn't needed. I would assume people talk with their friends about family vacations/road-trips/cruises/etc., and those all require some amount of money to achieve.

chaz
Posts: 13601
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by chaz » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:49 pm

I talk to no one except DW.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

david99
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by david99 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:15 pm

I don't discuss my financial goals with anyone. If I want feedback or help, I would post it here. Talking about finances with people can get you in trouble --- such as people asking you for money, jealousy,...

kaudrey
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by kaudrey » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:39 pm

My parents, my aunt, and our best friends know we want to retire early, but we don't talk about specific dollars. I think I might have told my dad when my investment portfolio hit $500K, but that was about 7 years ago. I occasionally post milestones at the Early Retirement Forum, and will answer questions here or there using our milestones and goals as reference if appropriate.

I remember last year our best friends asked something about saving, and I said that we save 25-30% of our incomes. They have an idea of how much we make, but they don't know exactly (and they make more than we do). We know that the BMF (best male friend) wishes that his DW would be more focused on saving, but nothing specific about how much they DO save. I know he's made quite a bit of money in Under Armour stock... :P

So, I guess the bottom line is - the closer we are to people, the more they know, but no one knows our specifics.

User avatar
thedayisbrave
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 8:56 pm
Location: NC

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by thedayisbrave » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:59 pm

Mom knows everything, she put two kids through private school on her own after my dad died so I trust her judgement & usually seek her business advice. She is also my business partner (we co-own some real estate investments).

I discuss a lot of my financial goals with my boss, which probably sounds taboo but it's not a typical work situation. Worked for him since high school and I love him dearly - he's more of a father to me. He has his MBA in Finance & doesn't sugar coat things so I know when I go to him I'm always getting the real deal.

Not married yet.

User avatar
UroloJay
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by UroloJay » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:26 pm

I talk to my father- he was the one who got me started contributing to an IRA with my first job at 16 and I know I can always speak frankly with him. I'm not sure how unique such a relationship is amongst others here, but I can tell you it is probably the one I value most next to my wife.
Too many people spend money they earned..to buy things they don't want..to impress people that they don't like. -Will Rogers

mkatz
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by mkatz » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:38 pm

I never have had much in the way of financial goals (dollars to accumulate or annual figure to spend/save) except to live within my means. As my wife's parents and mine (financially blue collar at best) lived quite frugally, my wife and I had good role models. At least until we were in our late forties (as my wife and I tried to develop our practices in an ethical fashion), when we started to make "real money", our spending habits had already been set. Now it can be said that my financial goal is simply not to waste what we have, by managing our investments simply according to a Bogleheadish philosophy.

With respect to our friends, I discuss general principles with those few who are interested, hoping to save them from (continuing to) make the same mistakes that I've made.

tj
Posts: 2066
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by tj » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:48 pm

Nobody. All of my friends seem to have a lot of debt, but also seem to spend a lot more than me on alcohol and such. It's been that way ever since college....I wish I had a partner who I could talk to about such things and who was on the same page.

lazyfabs
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:22 am

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by lazyfabs » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:25 pm

we have annual mtg.
Last edited by lazyfabs on Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I think the best way to find happiness is to stop looking so hard." - Kermit the Frog

Carter3
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:51 pm
Location: Western Tennessee

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Carter3 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:55 pm

Garthilk wrote:No one, barely even my spouse to be honest. She's of the mind that we're young and have enough saved 35 (130k 401k) and that things always work out and god has a plan.
We are living the same life.

TexasPenny
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TexasPenny » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:03 pm

I think I'm better at talking to people about THEIR goals. One of my co-workers is a single mom and had a lot of credit card debt. She was vocal about volunteering for overtime or anything she could do because she was focused on paying it off. I paid her to do some yard work for me and that helped her finish off the payment (and she worked her butt off!). Now she wants to put more in her 401k to get the match so we had a talk about that too. She was at $50 per paycheck to the Roth and after our discussion moved to $55 Roth and $55 pre-tax. I've also talked to one of my other co-workers who is in her mid-50's about consolidating all of her old accounts that are scattered among different brokers. She didn't even know what she was invested in. I do not make actual investment suggestions, because I don't think that's my place and don't want blame in a down market. I just want them to know what they have and make sure they understand how it's invested.

That's about the max of my financial discussions with people. Although my husband and I log in to our Vanguard account every once in a while and say Woo-hoo!

LongerPrimer
Posts: 903
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:01 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by LongerPrimer » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:21 pm

FA.
I also pay my family MD to work on my ingrown toenail, tomorrow. :annoyed And for some reason, I will be happy to pay the fee for service. :P

TravelforFun
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TravelforFun » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:57 am

Once a year, wife and I update our Asset List and send it to our three adult children. The list includes names of financial institutions where we have accounts, account numbers, and the amounts in the accounts. We don't have any debts hence, there is no Liability List.

Kids seem to appreciate being informed.

lululu
Posts: 1378
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:23 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by lululu » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:03 am

chloes3ra wrote:I think it is so important to be able to have someone to talk to about making your financial goals, someone besides your partner or spouse. I can understand how it may seem taboo, and that it may sound like bragging, but you may be surprised at how your friends and family react to your financial success. A few years ago, my husband and I made a chart of our debt and posted it on our wall, back when we lived in a one bedroom loft in Boston. Anyone who visited, mostly friends and family, would walk in and see our Debt Rocketship which consisted of a few hundred boxes. With each $100 we put toward the debt to pay it down, we would mark off one box on the poster. I found this extremely helpful! Friends and family would ask us how we were doing, cheer us on, and when we were finally debt free, we announced it on Facebook. We inspired a good number of our friends to get out of debt. My parents even went cash-only and cut up their credit cards, for a time. And no one has asked us for money. Yet.
I think the debt box thing is an excellent idea. Assets are a different matter. Nobody's going to do a home invasion or hit you up for gifts or loans because you're paying off debt.

IlliniDave
Posts: 2286
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 7:09 am

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by IlliniDave » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:30 am

I have a number of friends/colleagues with whom I discuss things financial in a nonspecific manner: things like debt reduction strategies, retirement aspirations, investment philosophies, etc. So goals get discussed in a general sense, but we don't sit around and compare account balances and try to see who will be the wealthiest at the end of the month or anything.

The only person I talk to about my situation in detail is one of my aunts who's been a sounding board/coach for many years. At present we are both to be executors of the others estate, so there aren't any secrets.
Don't do something. Just stand there!

Rodc
Posts: 13601
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:46 am

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Rodc » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:21 am

Mostly, as noted in the OP, my wife in details.

One friend, recently retired, who is knowledgeable and I get reasonable feedback. In generalities with one brother in law.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

letsgobobby
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:50 am

chloes3ra wrote:I think it is so important to be able to have someone to talk to about making your financial goals, someone besides your partner or spouse. I can understand how it may seem taboo, and that it may sound like bragging, but you may be surprised at how your friends and family react to your financial success. A few years ago, my husband and I made a chart of our debt and posted it on our wall, back when we lived in a one bedroom loft in Boston. Anyone who visited, mostly friends and family, would walk in and see our Debt Rocketship which consisted of a few hundred boxes. With each $100 we put toward the debt to pay it down, we would mark off one box on the poster. I found this extremely helpful! Friends and family would ask us how we were doing, cheer us on, and when we were finally debt free, we announced it on Facebook. We inspired a good number of our friends to get out of debt. My parents even went cash-only and cut up their credit cards, for a time. And no one has asked us for money. Yet.

I say, find someone you love and trust who isn't your spouse or partner, and share your thoughts and goals with them. How they react may inform your friendship in positive ways.
"getting out of debt" is a shared American experience, so there's no risk of seeming pretentious or a braggart.

"working on my sixth million" is a little different, don't you think? (I'm not working on my sixth million, for the record).

Austintatious
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Austintatious » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:04 am

Helloeeze wrote:I have educated my husband over the last several years. He is basically clueless. Other than that, no one, although I tell young people to get Roth IRAs and index funds.
I hope you're having more success with those young people than am I. DW and I still have meaningful discussions and planning sessions re finances and goals, in early retirement, but our discussions re finances with the young folks we care about just seem to fall short.

User avatar
Abe
Posts: 1770
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Earth in the Milky Way Galaxy

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Abe » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:13 am

Fallible wrote:
NAVigator wrote:No one, except occasionally my cat. I just want to reassure him that he won't have to share his daily rations. I skip the details because he has no interest and trusts me to stay the course. For that effort, he is content and sleeps well. So do I.
As a cat owner myself, I can fully appreciate your financial "chats" with your cat. And you are right: they would care only about food and sleep - and only their own. :)
This applies to people too. :wink:
Slow and steady wins the race.

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:35 am

letsgobobby wrote:
chloes3ra wrote:I think it is so important to be able to have someone to talk to about making your financial goals, someone besides your partner or spouse. I can understand how it may seem taboo, and that it may sound like bragging, but you may be surprised at how your friends and family react to your financial success. A few years ago, my husband and I made a chart of our debt and posted it on our wall, back when we lived in a one bedroom loft in Boston. Anyone who visited, mostly friends and family, would walk in and see our Debt Rocketship which consisted of a few hundred boxes. With each $100 we put toward the debt to pay it down, we would mark off one box on the poster. I found this extremely helpful! Friends and family would ask us how we were doing, cheer us on, and when we were finally debt free, we announced it on Facebook. We inspired a good number of our friends to get out of debt. My parents even went cash-only and cut up their credit cards, for a time. And no one has asked us for money. Yet.

I say, find someone you love and trust who isn't your spouse or partner, and share your thoughts and goals with them. How they react may inform your friendship in positive ways.
"getting out of debt" is a shared American experience, so there's no risk of seeming pretentious or a braggart.

"working on my sixth million" is a little different, don't you think? (I'm not working on my sixth million, for the record).
Isn't building wealth, once the debt is dealt with, also a shared American experience? The popularity of early retirement blogs would seem to indicate a pent-up demand for more openness on the subject. Is it possible that the cure for all this discomfort around the subject is more openness, and not less? The Debt Rocketship, a great idea, influenced others positively because Chloes3ra and her husband were so frank about its purpose. Many people don't feel they can do anything about their debt; they lack the confidence they can conquer it, and seeing how someone else just like them did it is hugely inspiring. (Cue Dave Ramsey.) Just so it is inspiring to know how someone just like me succeeded in saving enough to retire or fulfill other dreams and goals.

I admit some people will react oddly, defensively, or jealously - or avariciously - but personally I find that people react that way when I do anything in the slightest unusual, such as not caring about professional sports, showing an understanding of the historical problems in the Middle East, or sleeping on the floor when my back hurts. So if I get a chance to talk about financial goals, I think I will.

How bad can it be? After all, it's not bodily functions or dirty words, it's just money.

letsgobobby
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:48 am

Well you be the guinea pig and let us know how it goes. :wink:

Lots of Bogleheads have lots of money, enough that the 'average American' can't relate. Of course maybe their friends are also not average Americans, so perhaps it will all work out. I remember some threads about mortgage burning parties. Compared to 50 years ago, when such celebrations were seen as laudable goals, a large majority of respondents voiced fear of negative judgment, or worse - ostracization.

Remember, a majority of Americans couldn't come up with $5000 in an emergency; have less than $2000 in the bank; and $10,000 would change their lives (all according to various surveys). Sometimes Bogleheads forget how odd they are, how far to the right on the bell curve they are. That's why I created this poll three years ago, "Are you a millionaire?":

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69143

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:59 am

Okay, I'll report back when I get some action on my fishing line. Maybe you are all correct and when I come back I will be a sadder but wiser Ivygirl. :)

Novine
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Novine » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:19 am

I always find these discussions fascinating because one of the great laments of the BH crowd is the lack of financial literacy among Americans. But when asked whom they share their knowledge of financial matters, the most frequent answer appears to be only a spouse or no one at all. I get not wanting to share specific dollar amounts or feeling that you're on the hook for directing a person in a certain direction and having it backfire. But it seems that as a group, we expect people to become better informed but individually, we won't be the ones helping get people going in the right direction. Myself, I often share good articles on financial issues with friends and family. I don't push my views beyond that but if people want more information or advice on financial questions, I'll share my 2 cents. Some use it and some don't.

User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 5556
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by prudent » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:30 am

Ivygirl wrote:Isn't building wealth, once the debt is dealt with, also a shared American experience? The popularity of early retirement blogs would seem to indicate a pent-up demand for more openness on the subject. Is it possible that the cure for all this discomfort around the subject is more openness, and not less? The Debt Rocketship, a great idea, influenced others positively because Chloes3ra and her husband were so frank about its purpose. Many people don't feel they can do anything about their debt; they lack the confidence they can conquer it, and seeing how someone else just like them did it is hugely inspiring. (Cue Dave Ramsey.) Just so it is inspiring to know how someone just like me succeeded in saving enough to retire or fulfill other dreams and goals.

I admit some people will react oddly, defensively, or jealously - or avariciously - but personally I find that people react that way when I do anything in the slightest unusual, such as not caring about professional sports, showing an understanding of the historical problems in the Middle East, or sleeping on the floor when my back hurts. So if I get a chance to talk about financial goals, I think I will.

How bad can it be? After all, it's not bodily functions or dirty words, it's just money.
I feel the popularity of ER blogs reflects a demand to have a place to discuss it anonymously, because people are uncomfortable talking to family/friends about it. :)

It's true that getting out of debt has no stigma and everyone can be glad for that person. But there's something different about accumulating wealth - if you talk about that, people think you're bragging | snobby | rubbing it in | showing off | thinking you're better than them... pick one or all.

I'm happy to talk about personal finance with anyone but they have to bring it up. I have to see they are interested and motivated. We have a dear friend who is a shopaholic and a couple years ago I told her to get the AmEx Blue Cash Preferred credit card and use that to buy gift cards for different stores at the supermarket when possible before going shopping to get the 6% cashback. She thought I was a genius (she'll save about $360 a year). Our next discussion about money was suggesting she take a look at what it was costing her to use her financial advisor who was charging 1% AUM and churning her account across multiple load funds. She said the advisor was an old friend and she didn't want to confront him. That's costing her about $2,000 a year. Watching the pennies, and letting the dollars go by. So I dropped it and won't talk finance with her in the future unless she starts the conversation. I'm happy to talk about what I would do conceptually but I don't discuss my goals or my numbers. I honestly don't think anything good could come from it.

Austintatious
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Austintatious » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:55 am

Novine wrote:I always find these discussions fascinating because one of the great laments of the BH crowd is the lack of financial literacy among Americans. But when asked whom they share their knowledge of financial matters, the most frequent answer appears to be only a spouse or no one at all. I get not wanting to share specific dollar amounts or feeling that you're on the hook for directing a person in a certain direction and having it backfire. But it seems that as a group, we expect people to become better informed but individually, we won't be the ones helping get people going in the right direction. Myself, I often share good articles on financial issues with friends and family. I don't push my views beyond that but if people want more information or advice on financial questions, I'll share my 2 cents. Some use it and some don't.
You overlook the fact that the Bogleheads forum is, largely, an enterprise focused on helping people learn about financial matters. It's a tremendous resource made available to anyone wanting to learn, with many here dedicating much time and effort doing just that. But that thing about "wanting to learn" is most important. I suggest that many Bogleheads have learned that most folks, including those most in need of education re finance, simply aren't interested and even don't want to hear it and even resent it. That's reality.

TheRightKost87
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:25 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheRightKost87 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:19 pm

That's the beauty of the forum. You can tell thousands of people, but actually tell no one at the same time :wink:

I talk theory ( low cost, index, etc) with some friends that are interested in finance, however they didnt take to Bogleheadism, so I don't push the idea on them. I sometimes wish I had a Boglehead Buddy amongst my friends to bounce some actual numbers off of, but then I realize that may open up some problems as well.
"The problem with diversification is that it works, whether or not we want it to"

Austintatious
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Austintatious » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:30 pm

TheRightKost87 wrote:That's the beauty of the forum. You can tell thousands of people, but actually tell no one at the same time :wink:

I talk theory ( low cost, index, etc) with some friends that are interested in finance, however they didnt take to Bogleheadism, so I don't push the idea on them. I sometimes wish I had a Boglehead Buddy amongst my friends to bounce some actual numbers off of, but then I realize that may open up some problems as well.


"That's the beauty of the forum. You can tell thousands of people, but actually tell no one at the same time."

Insightful and nicely stated.

User avatar
GerryL
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by GerryL » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:53 pm

Austintatious wrote:
Novine wrote:I always find these discussions fascinating because one of the great laments of the BH crowd is the lack of financial literacy among Americans. But when asked whom they share their knowledge of financial matters, the most frequent answer appears to be only a spouse or no one at all. I get not wanting to share specific dollar amounts or feeling that you're on the hook for directing a person in a certain direction and having it backfire. But it seems that as a group, we expect people to become better informed but individually, we won't be the ones helping get people going in the right direction. Myself, I often share good articles on financial issues with friends and family. I don't push my views beyond that but if people want more information or advice on financial questions, I'll share my 2 cents. Some use it and some don't.
You overlook the fact that the Bogleheads forum is, largely, an enterprise focused on helping people learn about financial matters. It's a tremendous resource made available to anyone wanting to learn, with many here dedicating much time and effort doing just that. But that thing about "wanting to learn" is most important. I suggest that many Bogleheads have learned that most folks, including those most in need of education re finance, simply aren't interested and even don't want to hear it and even resent it. That's reality.
Ditto and ditto. In this forum we are generally preaching to the choir ... and drawing in a few receptive people who find us. Unfortunately, money is a very emotion-filled topic for some people. Those emotions make the discussion hard to start and the useful ideas hard to hear.

As I retire I am looking at additional volunteer opportunities where I can "invest" my time. One area I will be investigating is financial literacy training that some non-profits offer to children or adults. Does anyone here have experience with any established operations that do this kind of work? One that I will be considering is Financial Beginnings http://www.financialbeginnings.org/.

jackholloway
Posts: 960
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by jackholloway » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:05 pm

Novine wrote:I always find these discussions fascinating because one of the great laments of the BH crowd is the lack of financial literacy among Americans. But when asked whom they share their knowledge of financial matters, the most frequent answer appears to be only a spouse or no one at all. I get not wanting to share specific dollar amounts or feeling that you're on the hook for directing a person in a certain direction and having it backfire. But it seems that as a group, we expect people to become better informed but individually, we won't be the ones helping get people going in the right direction. Myself, I often share good articles on financial issues with friends and family. I don't push my views beyond that but if people want more information or advice on financial questions, I'll share my 2 cents. Some use it and some don't.

I share all sorts of information on financial literacy and investing. Balances and personal returns are private.

If someone asks for advice, I am pretty free about handing over favorite books and pointers to the BH site.

Dulocracy
Posts: 2275
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Dulocracy » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:17 pm

I am a member of a small group that meets monthly. We hold each other accountable. We discuss goals and strategies. Any member can choose their own goals, reject or accept suggestions by others, and define their own path after using the others as a sounding board. Once they state their goals, the members hold them accountable for acting to bring about those goals. Sometimes it is as simple as doing a home inventory for insurance purposes. Other times, it is more complex (determine your asset allocation). It really is motivating when you know you will have to answer to your peers as to whether or not you took care of the items on your list. We limit each person to three items that must be done by the next meeting to be realistic and not overwhelm anyone. It has helped keep me doing things that I otherwise would not have wanted to do (home inventory is a pain in the butt, even if it is simple).
I'm not a financial professional. Post is info only & not legal advice. No attorney-client relationship exists with reader. Scrutinize my ideas as if you spoke with a guy at a bar. I may be wrong.

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:39 pm

Some folks have posted being disappointed with the reactions of people they are trying to help become more financially literate. I wonder if sometimes they gave up too soon. I wonder if sometimes they had a preconceived idea of how the person ought to be benefited.

Let me explain. I wrote earlier in the thread about discussing my retirement goals with a sibling, and how she was delighted, imagining the savings would be for both of us. What I know, being her sister, is that all her life she has supplemented her lifestyle by a series of relationships with people (men and relatives) who have been willing to share their resources in order to have the pleasure of her fun, attractive, bubbly company. Well she is over 50 now and the competition is a little too intense. She relied on her primary survival strategy too long and did not get an education or any advanced job skills, and now she is alone, working a factory job. My speaking with her about my goals led to some awkwardness between us as I had to define the boundaries ("no I am not saving for two"). But it was a good thing. Because it woke her from her dream that somebody was going to come along when she is old and support her in the style to which she is accustomed. The cold wind of "someday a bag lady" fear blew through her mind and now she is checking out Dave Ramsey books and working overtime to build an emergency fund.

Did I turn her into an investor in my own image when I talked about my index funds? No. That's not going to happen. But our discusssion was a motivation for positive change, how much is up to her. If I had allowed myself to draw away when she let her avarice show, or if I had shut down like a turtle and refused to talk, the positive change would not have occurred. So though it was a little unpleasant for a time and she did not adopt any of my advice she did come to a revolutionary conclusion, all on her own, about what it would mean to be not 50, but 70, and have nothing saved.

So don't give up too soon. And don't insist on a certain result, or feel your advice has "failed."

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 5284
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:21 pm

OP declares this has been officially threadjacked.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

Ivygirl
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Ivygirl » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:53 pm

Well, it survived "who is really in the upper 1%" and thrashing out the exact definition of a McMansion. But so be it.

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 5284
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:01 pm

StarbuxInvestor wrote:OP declares this has been officially threadjacked.
It was started to find out if other people had financial confidantes and has morphed into a thread on financial evangelism. Nothing wrong with the new topic, just probably should be in its own thread.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

User avatar
GerryL
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by GerryL » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 pm

Threads are like children. Early in their lives you can guide them in the direction you'd like to see them go, but eventually they set off on their own. :wink:

Novine
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Who do you talk with about your financial goals?

Post by Novine » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:13 pm

Sorry about that - to get this back on track, my wife and I regularly discuss our financial goals and how we are doing. She's not as interested in all of the details but I think it's important for her to know what we're doing investment-wise in case she ever has to take things over. I talk the markets generally with my brother although I try not to encourage his interest in stock-picking.

Post Reply