does frugality result in lower career ambition?

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sscritic
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by sscritic » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:31 pm

555 wrote:
sscritic wrote:...laziness...
There is also deferred laziness. If I spend less laziness now (work more, get more money), then I can afford more laziness later (work less or retire, don't need money).
Not for me. Unlike spending, laziness cannot be deferred. Laziness is an addiction, and there is no 12 step program for it. I was lazy as a kid, I was lazy while employed, and I am lazy in retirement. If I weren't so lazy, I would go to China and study Chinese and learn it properly. Instead, I am taking the couch potato's course in Chinese, watching 5 or 6 hours of soap operas every day. It doesn't get any lazier than that.

Now who wants to wash the dishes in my kitchen sink? I am stuck on my couch and can't get up.

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Sents
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by Sents » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:35 am

sscritic wrote:
555 wrote:
sscritic wrote:...laziness...
There is also deferred laziness. If I spend less laziness now (work more, get more money), then I can afford more laziness later (work less or retire, don't need money).
Not for me. Unlike spending, laziness cannot be deferred. Laziness is an addiction, and there is no 12 step program for it. I was lazy as a kid, I was lazy while employed, and I am lazy in retirement. If I weren't so lazy, I would go to China and study Chinese and learn it properly. Instead, I am taking the couch potato's course in Chinese, watching 5 or 6 hours of soap operas every day. It doesn't get any lazier than that.

Now who wants to wash the dishes in my kitchen sink? I am stuck on my couch and can't get up.
^ Go to China and practice mandarin! (I spent over 7 months in China practicing the language, and eating the food of course!)
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets. For it and knowledge can raise men to the divine. | L. Beethoven

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beyou
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by beyou » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:53 am

Sents wrote:On the contrary, frugality gives me financial freedom and allows me to focus on my ambitions. As a chemical engineer, scientist, and educator I can then focus on educating the future generation of engineers/scientists and facilitating the development of new technology! :beer
+1

I do what I feel is best for me overall (balancing my skills/interests/outside life) and did not feel i HAD to take a job I did not want, just for the money.
My frugality allowed me to choose a job that stimulates me intellectually, avoid very senior management BS, avoid excessive business travel so
I can spend time with my children before they grow up and move on. There are times I regret, especially as I age and see young kids move up the ladder,
but then I go home, spend time with family and take comfort in knowing I can still provide for my family, and be there to enjoy it.

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thedayisbrave
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by thedayisbrave » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:07 am

I am both frugal and ambitious. I'm young, and have goals that I want to accomplish in life. And I'm not going after the high paying jobs in banking and the like, because my ambition lies more in doing good than in making gobs of money. I live a lifestyle that is very easy to maintain, so the absolute dollar amount makes no difference to me.

Re: The Millionaire Next Door, it rings true to me. An overwhelming majority of those I know who have money, don't spend it frivolously. They drive Nissans & Toyotas. Sure, maybe they take a trip or two and don't have to worry much about whether breakfast is $10 or $20. But they shop at Goodwill and Big Lots.

In the end, it's all about choices.

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SC Hoosier
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by SC Hoosier » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:51 am

For me, being able to live on less has taken away some of the pressure to earn more, because I make enough to do everything I really want to do. Sure more would be nice, but I like my work and wouldn't change that to earn more. Good question.
I live in No Payment Land. It is wonderful, and I'd love for you to live here too.

tim1999
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by tim1999 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:05 am

Personally, I turned down a management job that would have involved a 20% raise plus stock options, because:
-I live comfortably on my current income and don't have expenses that "need" that higher income.
-I don't aspire to buy a more expensive home, travel to more exotic locations, buy a fancier car, etc. that would require a higher income to do so.
-I don't have kids that I need to put through college, I don't have relatives in financial trouble needing bailouts, etc.
-Most importantly, since I don't need the money, I see no point in working 60-70 hours per week (which is what that job involves) vs. my current 45-50 and having less time to enjoy my life.

So yes, I suppose it has lowered my career ambition. It is my current plan to avoid that management job if possible. Frankly, if I was promoted to it against my will, I'd probably leave the company for lower paying/less demanding work elsewhere if I couldn't find a way to reduce the hours.

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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by tony44 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:01 pm

Go Blue 99 wrote:Do you believe that living a frugal lifestyle can sometimes result in having less career ambition? If you can learn to live and save on less, and not have to worry about keeping up with Joneses, you don’t need as high of a salary. Therefore, you may be reluctant to put in the extra hours and keep chasing the next promotion. Thoughts?
I'd say yes if you take it to the extreme like a lot of the people on MMM. Don't treat frugality as a sort of religion instead of just good, sound behavior. That scares me. And their obsession with early retirement is, IMHO, a bit over the top.

lowerleisureclass
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by lowerleisureclass » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:17 pm

HomerJ wrote:
lowerleisureclass wrote:When I think of career ambition, I think of my friends who are STOKED to continually improve their skills and abilities to do their job, and would continue to do that regardless of remuneration because they are so excited about what they actually do. They would love to make more money, but making more money is not their driving force, the activity is. These people tend to have jobs like mountain guide or chef or musician, but I also know a nuclear physicist and a pediatrician who are that way.
Are they young?

I was that way once too... I used to come home from work and build home networks and domains and tear them down again, and read everything I could... I loved to learn, learn, learn...

And that work and love of learning got me to senior tech guy pretty fast, and well compensated... But I'm older now, and less interested in learning 24 hours/day... And I have zero desire to go into "management", which is the next "career" step for me.... So now my ambition is gone. And don't get me wrong... I don't regret at all my ambition when I was young, and I don't regret at all my lack of ambition now that I'm older...

Different stages of life...
Define "young." :mrgreen: I don't think any are over 50; I'll admit that, though plenty are in their 40s somewhere -- probably near the early end of that spectrum though. I knew from my early 20s that I never wanted to manage anyone, thank you very much. Ew. I do still love to learn, though over the course of my life the things I've become interested in learning has changed in ways that I would never have guessed at as a yute.
"At either end of the economic spectrum there lies a leisure class." -- Eric Beck, rock climber

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Hub
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by Hub » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:33 pm

I think OP's original question is a good one. As a frugal employee, I have certainly been guilty of calling the status of my income and career at a given point in time "good enough" because our finances were in good shape and getting raises is hard. Then I found a new focus to quit the day job at a very young age and this has awakened my ambition. I have since been promoted to my goal position and now it's all about negotiating raises effectively as I gain experience.

That said, I could see why a sales manager might encourage her people to buy big cars and houses. Keeps the pressure on. :)

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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by Random Poster » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:42 pm

Hub wrote:That said, I could see why a sales manager might encourage her people to buy big cars and houses. Keeps the pressure on. :)
Absolutely.

It could just be my impression, but I've always gotten the sense that law firm partners liked it when their associates got married, bought a house and a new car or two, and had a baby.

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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by Longtimelurker » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:20 pm

Go Blue 99 wrote:Do you believe that living a frugal lifestyle can sometimes result in having less career ambition? If you can learn to live and save on less, and not have to worry about keeping up with Joneses, you don’t need as high of a salary. Therefore, you may be reluctant to put in the extra hours and keep chasing the next promotion. Thoughts?

This is an idiotic premise. People who are motivated by money in order to keep up with the Joneses, at best achieve a frustrated level of middle management often combined with huge debts. The truly great ones aren't motivated by money, they are motivated by something much deeper. If you are justifying misery in your job because you believe it to be a path to wealth, then your priorities are ridiculous. If you are putting in the extra hours because of a deeper satisfaction, then you have a dice roll chance of greatness - and even without greatness, you will find contentment and satisfaction.
Stay the course. If you can't resist greed, and fear is proven to be 2x as strong, you are doomed as an investor.

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Go Blue 99
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by Go Blue 99 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:02 pm

Longtimelurker wrote:
Go Blue 99 wrote:Do you believe that living a frugal lifestyle can sometimes result in having less career ambition? If you can learn to live and save on less, and not have to worry about keeping up with Joneses, you don’t need as high of a salary. Therefore, you may be reluctant to put in the extra hours and keep chasing the next promotion. Thoughts?

This is an idiotic premise. People who are motivated by money in order to keep up with the Joneses, at best achieve a frustrated level of middle management often combined with huge debts. The truly great ones aren't motivated by money, they are motivated by something much deeper.
How can it be an idiotic premise when multiple Bogleheads in this thread have stated they can relate to it?

sscritic
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by sscritic » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:13 pm

Go Blue 99 wrote: How can it be an idiotic premise when multiple Bogleheads in this thread have stated they can relate to it?
As a question of logic, the answer is that multiple bogleheads can be idiotic. QED

555
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Re: does frugality result in lower career ambition?

Post by 555 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:50 pm

Go Blue 99 wrote:Do you believe that living a frugal lifestyle can sometimes result in having less career ambition?
Aha, I see the word "sometimes". And "can".
I suppose I have to answer "yes". It's possible.

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