If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experience?

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cubedbee
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by cubedbee »

SnapShots wrote:Confused ... it appears from reading your responses you are one of the Invincible-20-Somethings and really aren't interested in health insurance because nothing is going to happen to you and if it does you just won't get treatment.

However, if you fall and break a leg, you'll likely get it treated. If you wife develops cancer, she'll likely get it treated. I suspect you have a parent who will step up and provide as much financial help as they can afford or not afford, if you are unable to get the quality treatment you think you need. And, you will end up with medical bills that will set your financial goals in life way back. Or, perhaps you'll take bankruptcy and let someone else pay for your care.

I'm not sure at your age and how being a student affects your qualifications, but there is also student insurance. I suspect you have not tried very hard to obtain any insurance for that matter.

I understand you are financially strapped but the new ACA was designed to help people like you. To act as if nothing will ever happen to you or your spouse, is an inappropriate and unrealistic response. As a parent, I would pay for a child's insurance plan to not only protect them but to protect myself. But, your families may not be in the positive to help.

Make a copy of your posts and this thread and look back at it when your 40. Or, when you have a medical issue and are forced to get treatment.

Best to you and hope you stay well ...
Crazy bad things happen to healthy people. A couple years ago we had a young invincible 20 something male that passed underwriting with flying colors to get the cheapest rate we provide. 6 months later, he goes to the hospital with a viral respitory infection. The virus spreads to his heart and his heart begins to fail and he is hospitalized for 5 straight months while they find him a donor heart and complete the transplant. $2.8 million dollars later, I'm investigating why my pool had a huge jump in claims costs.

I don't know what would have happened if he didn't have insurance.... I'm guessing he would have not gotten the transplant and died. Hospitals are forced to do Emergency services for all people regardless of insured status, but I think that means keeping him alive as long as possible with his dying heart, not transplanting in a new one. Best case he would have lived and been saddled with that bill. Instead, he payed his $5,000 OOP max and we paid $2.795M.

Health insurance has a lot of low frequency high severity claims like this ---- any given year the top 0.5% of claimants might have 20-25% of claims. So yeah, the 39 years you aren't one of those people you might pay more in premium than you get back in value. But that 1 year you are one of the high cost people, you don't want to be uninsured.
lululu
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by lululu »

snowman wrote:
bungalow10 wrote:
goaties wrote:I have some other interesting anecdotal info: For calendar year 2013, my premium for a $5000 deductible, no co-pays, HDHP was $152 per month. When BCBS sent my premium notice for 2014, this same policy (now called a "bronze" policy and compliant with the new ACA regs) was going to cost $398 per month! If it hadn't been for the subsidy, I too would have opted for paying the fine.
To make this anecdote meaningful, check out the price of comparable plans on the exchange.

Having your insurance company send you a notice that they are increasing your premiums and hoping you will bite without shopping the cost only illustrates that insurance companies either think 1. You are uninformed and will just pay the increased premium or 2. They are hoping you will get upset and tell people that the ACA forced them to raise their premiums - when in fact they are just doing what they always do - trying to profit off of the uninformed.
Very good point! I already replied earlier with my numbers, but this comment reminded me that we got the same letter. Our carrier sent us a note that our monthly premium for $6K HDHP will increase on January 1 from $1,000 to $1,300. However, by that time, we have already signed up for much better Silver plan with $1.5K deductible and copays for $1,000/month. We could have also switched to $3K HDHP offered on the exchange for $700/month. That is before subsidies which we currently don't qualify for.

I had exact same thought as poster above: do they really think we are that stupid? And I was wondering how many people will either fall for it, or will start complaining how expensive Obamacare is because their premiums went up by 30%.
Many people are that stupid. Otherwise "card services" wouldn't be calling us all up. Just listen to talk radio sometime.
gerrym51
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by gerrym51 »

Invincibles traditionnaly have not signed up for Health insurance. It is not unique to the ACA. :mrgreen:
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Epsilon Delta
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Epsilon Delta »

cubedbee wrote: Health insurance has a lot of low frequency high severity claims like this ---- any given year the top 0.5% of claimants might have 20-25% of claims. So yeah, the 39 years you aren't one of those people you might pay more in premium than you get back in value. But that 1 year you are one of the high cost people, you don't want to be uninsured.
There is a better than 50% chance you will never be in that top 0.5%. Over a lifetime most people will pay more for health insurance than they will get back in medical services. Neither of these make health insurance a bad deal, but they make good sound bites.
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goodenyou
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by goodenyou »

20% of the people drive 80% of the cost. Healthcare is no exception. The 20% of the people (high utilizers) will be happy to have insurance, 80% of us will begrudge paying a lot for the ability to sleep at night. The ACA is good for hospitals and terrible for doctors. If you show up at a hospital, there is no guarantee that the doctor taking care of you accepts a potentially lousy fee schedule and is not "in-network". Hospitals don't take care of you, doctors that may not be on your insurance do. There is a huge push to try to employ doctors, but hospitals cannot employ all doctors of all specialties. I posted a while ago in another discussion thread that patients are being duped into believing doctors are on their plans. They are misled and are very disappointed when they find that the doctors are not. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/0 ... rnia-list/. Doctors are not taking the risk that they will lose money (patients that don't pay in days 30-90), nor are they willing to accept fees that would make a plumber laugh. Getting people who have their financial lives put together with Scotch Tape signed up for insurance is no panacea. They have no money for deductibles, co-pays or any additional OOP expenses. Many will realize this and question whether it makes any sense to pay monthly premiums as well.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains”
Jack
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Jack »

goodenyou wrote:Getting people who have their financial lives put together with Scotch Tape signed up for insurance is no panacea. They have no money for deductibles, co-pays or any additional OOP expenses. Many will realize this and question whether it makes any sense to pay monthly premiums as well.
Depending on income level, deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance will be partially or entirely by the ACA program.
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goodenyou
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by goodenyou »

Jack wrote:
goodenyou wrote:Getting people who have their financial lives put together with Scotch Tape signed up for insurance is no panacea. They have no money for deductibles, co-pays or any additional OOP expenses. Many will realize this and question whether it makes any sense to pay monthly premiums as well.
Depending on income level, deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance will be partially or entirely by the ACA program.
A lot of the working people have maxed out credit card debt and no disposable income or savings. They have no reserve whatsoever. They do not qualify for enough subsidy. We see it all day long.
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bluemarlin08
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by bluemarlin08 »

The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
dgdevil
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by dgdevil »

bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
Folks are also happy because they haven't paid anything yet - just signed up.
cheapskate
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by cheapskate »

bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium.
Not necessarily true. My ACA premiums for similar coverage as I get from my employer will be 10+% higher (compared to COBRA) and with higher deductibles and copay. But I am still planning on going with ACA for a couple of reasons - COBRA will end in 18 months and much more importantly, I know that insurance companies can never deny payment or exclude treatment claiming pre-existing conditions.

For me, the fact that I and my family can never be denied coverage or be given the run around (when it comes to payment) with the ACA is huge. I have no issues paying a bit more for that assurance.

I have been burned in the past where (employer PPO insurance) has given me a very hard time paying for legitimate medical bills in *in-network* facilities.
Jack
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Jack »

bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
You seem to be forgetting that employment health plans have been subsidized by taxpayers for decades. The ACA is only a partial attempt to even the score for individual insurance. The employment health deduction is the largest government subsidy of all, even bigger than the mortgage deduction, and amounts to about $250 billion per year out of taxpayer pockets. The typical tax subsidy for an employment family plan is about $4000 per year. Compare that $250 billion subsidy to the $40 billion cost of the ACA this year.

You mention the income qualifier for ACA plans, but at least it is progressively means tested. On the other hand, the employment health care subsidy is actually reverse means tested. The higher an individual's income and marginal tax rate, the higher the subsidy. That is quite perverse compared to ACA means testing.
Curlyq
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Curlyq »

Another "pro" vote for ACA. When my full-time job was eliminated, I could stay part-time and purchase ACA insurance. I got most of my doctors in the new network for roughly the same price I was paying for premiums with group insurance through work.

With a pre-existing condition (cancer), I would not have been able to purchase any insurance and would have been without insurance unless or until I found another full-time job that offered insurance. I'm old enough, where finding another job can be difficult and take a fair amount of time, so ACA is a boon for me. Now I'm going to try to stay part-time and see if this works.
lululu
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by lululu »

bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
How much do you think taxpayers/other patients pay to subsidize must treat everyone emergency rooms, which is where a lot of ACA people would wind up without it?
bluemarlin08
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by bluemarlin08 »

You seem to be forgetting that employment health plans have been subsidized by taxpayers for decades. The ACA is only a partial attempt to even the score for individual insurance. The employment health deduction is the largest government subsidy of all, even bigger than the mortgage deduction, and amounts to about $250 billion per year out of taxpayer pockets. The typical tax subsidy for an employment family plan is about $4000 per year. Compare that $250 billion subsidy to the $40 billion cost of the ACA this year.

You mention the income qualifier for ACA plans, but at least it is progressively means tested. On the other hand, the employment health care subsidy is actually reverse means tested. The higher an individual's income and marginal tax rate, the higher the subsidy. That is quite perverse compared to ACA means testing.
Then anything that a business/individual deducts as a expense is a subsidy. Fuel, depreciation, travel expenses, employment and the list goes on.
magazinewriter
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by magazinewriter »

I am an early retiree in my late 50s and signed up for an ACA plan this year. I previously had an individual plan with a $5k deductible and now have a silver plan with a $3,500 deductible. I paid $516 a month for my old policy and now pay $455 with a subsidy. The non-subsidy price of my plan is $680.

I am happy with the ACA because I don't have to worry about being dropped and I can switch plans during open enrollment.

There are some negatives. I had to switch insurers to make sure my specialist (chronic condition) was in network. The closest hospital to me (4-5 miles) is not included but the better hospital (12-13 miles) is included and is where I would choose to go.

The big negative for me is that I take four brand-name Rx and none of them are covered, at least for now, because they are in the insurer's STEP program. Basically they want you to try generic and lower-cost meds first and only if they don't work will they cover the non-preferred brand Rx. I knew this when I signed up but was hoping I'd be grandfathered in since I've been taking the Rx for awhile. But no dice. I was caught because I could stick with my old insurer and their more generous Rx plan but without my doctor or switch insurers to keep my doctor and have the poor Rx plan. My third option included my doctor but doesn't cover my meds even through a STEP program.

Although I will talk to my doctor next month, my plan now is to pay out-of-pocket for my Rx. Two of my meds are with an Rx company that has a discount card that is not income-based but cuts the price dramatically, to $55 and $25 a month even not going through insurance. The two others are about $65 each using the GoodRx card, which in my case only saved a few dollars.

So for me the ACA has been mixed, but I still definitely support it.
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dm200
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by dm200 »

bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
My wife and I are very happy with the plan she was able to enroll in under the ACA. It is the same provider/insurance and about the same coverage (difficult to be precise because some things cost a bit less and some cost a bit more). The (BEFORE any subsidy) monthly premium is only 2/3 of what we were paying in 2013.
magazinewriter
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by magazinewriter »

bluemarlin08 wrote:
You seem to be forgetting that employment health plans have been subsidized by taxpayers for decades. The ACA is only a partial attempt to even the score for individual insurance. The employment health deduction is the largest government subsidy of all, even bigger than the mortgage deduction, and amounts to about $250 billion per year out of taxpayer pockets. The typical tax subsidy for an employment family plan is about $4000 per year. Compare that $250 billion subsidy to the $40 billion cost of the ACA this year.

You mention the income qualifier for ACA plans, but at least it is progressively means tested. On the other hand, the employment health care subsidy is actually reverse means tested. The higher an individual's income and marginal tax rate, the higher the subsidy. That is quite perverse compared to ACA means testing.
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Then anything that a business/individual deducts as a expense is a subsidy. Fuel, depreciation, travel expenses, employment and the list goes on.
It is not the business deduction, it's that employees are getting a huge tax break because they don't pay income taxes on the health insurance subsidies they receive from their companies.
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dm200
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by dm200 »

lululu wrote:
bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
How much do you think taxpayers/other patients pay to subsidize must treat everyone emergency rooms, which is where a lot of ACA people would wind up without it?
Reducing unnecessary emergency room costs of treating uninsured folks, in theory, should end up lowering medical expenditures, without reducing actual medical/health benefits received. I think it is probably too early to reach conclusions on whether this is true, but, I did read, however, that for some reason, the ACA has led to increased ER visits. I sure hope that such a cited increase is not true (or can be fixed).
Jack
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Jack »

bluemarlin08 wrote:Then anything that a business/individual deducts as a expense is a subsidy. Fuel, depreciation, travel expenses, employment and the list goes on.
You are confusing business taxes and individual taxes. A business can deduct business expenses -- including salaries and health benefits. That does not preclude the individual from paying taxes on their salaries or their health benefits.

The employee health deduction occurs when they receive their paycheck with unreported earned compensation in the form of health benefits. They get their tax subsidy on the front end. The ACA beneficiary gets a tax credit at the end of the year. They get their tax subsidy on the back end. The only difference is a matter of timing. They are both tax subsidies to individuals.
madbrain
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by madbrain »

Jack,
Jack wrote:
Confused wrote:Believe me, we looked into Medicaid. Didn't qualify.
With $21,000 income for two, you fall into the doughnut hole for those states that did not expand Medicaid. You make too much for Medicaid and too little to qualify for subsidies on the exchange. You need to move to a better state. You would then qualify for free health insurance.
Actually, I don't think that's correct.
The FPL for 2 people is $15,730 according http://familiesusa.org/product/federal- ... guidelines .
$21,000 is just over 133% of the FPL for that family size.

With that income, even if the state didn't expand Medicaid, Confused's family should qualify for marketplace subsidies under the ACA :
http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brie ... -medicaid/
See figure 3 . Families between 100% and - 400% of the FPL qualifies for subsidies.

I suspect Confused was confused. Maybe the $180/month that was quoted was before subsidies.
However, enrollment is now over for 2014 .
patrick
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by patrick »

dm200 wrote:Reducing unnecessary emergency room costs of treating uninsured folks, in theory, should end up lowering medical expenditures, without reducing actual medical/health benefits received. I think it is probably too early to reach conclusions on whether this is true, but, I did read, however, that for some reason, the ACA has led to increased ER visits. I sure hope that such a cited increase is not true (or can be fixed).
I doubt there is any reliable data on the ACA available now since key provisions only took effect at the start of this year. But there is some possible information from other sources that suggests little if any benefit by reducing ER use:

A study that randomly assigned people to Medicaid in Oregon suggests that getting Medicaid increased emergency department visits: http://www.nber.org/oregon/

Emergency care seems to be a very small fraction of health spending anyway. This article from the American College of Emergency Physicians says it's less than 2%: http://newsroom.acep.org/index.php?s=20301&item=29928
Jack
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Jack »

madbrain wrote:Actually, I don't think that's correct.
The FPL for 2 people is $15,730 according http://familiesusa.org/product/federal- ... guidelines .
$21,000 is just over 133% of the FPL for that family size.
You are right. I was thinking of the 138% limit which is for Medicaid in expansion states. In non-expansion states, the ACA subsidies go down to 100% of FPL. But as you point out, it is too late for this year unless they have a qualifying event. On the other hand, Medicaid enrollment is open all year round.
scrabbler1
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by scrabbler1 »

Jack wrote:
bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
You seem to be forgetting that employment health plans have been subsidized by taxpayers for decades. The ACA is only a partial attempt to even the score for individual insurance. The employment health deduction is the largest government subsidy of all, even bigger than the mortgage deduction, and amounts to about $250 billion per year out of taxpayer pockets. The typical tax subsidy for an employment family plan is about $4000 per year. Compare that $250 billion subsidy to the $40 billion cost of the ACA this year.

You mention the income qualifier for ACA plans, but at least it is progressively means tested. On the other hand, the employment health care subsidy is actually reverse means tested. The higher an individual's income and marginal tax rate, the higher the subsidy. That is quite perverse compared to ACA means testing.
+1 Thank you for writing just what I would have written in response. And remember that the employee portion of an employer-sponsored group health plan is made with pretax dollars (i.e. it is fully deductible) even if the employee does not itemize his deductions. Someone who is not in an employer-sponsored plan has to pass two hurdles in the tax code to be able to deduct his health insurance premiums - one is to surpass the 10%-of-AGI threshhold before being able to deduct anything, and two is to be able to itemize deductions at all. To equalize the treatment of HI premiums for all taxpayers, the employer-paid portion should be fully taxable and the employee-paid portion should be fully deductible like an IRA deduction and be removed from Schedule A.
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dm200
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by dm200 »

scrabbler1 wrote:
Jack wrote:
bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
You seem to be forgetting that employment health plans have been subsidized by taxpayers for decades. The ACA is only a partial attempt to even the score for individual insurance. The employment health deduction is the largest government subsidy of all, even bigger than the mortgage deduction, and amounts to about $250 billion per year out of taxpayer pockets. The typical tax subsidy for an employment family plan is about $4000 per year. Compare that $250 billion subsidy to the $40 billion cost of the ACA this year.

You mention the income qualifier for ACA plans, but at least it is progressively means tested. On the other hand, the employment health care subsidy is actually reverse means tested. The higher an individual's income and marginal tax rate, the higher the subsidy. That is quite perverse compared to ACA means testing.
+1 Thank you for writing just what I would have written in response. And remember that the employee portion of an employer-sponsored group health plan is made with pretax dollars (i.e. it is fully deductible) even if the employee does not itemize his deductions. Someone who is not in an employer-sponsored plan has to pass two hurdles in the tax code to be able to deduct his health insurance premiums - one is to surpass the 10%-of-AGI threshhold before being able to deduct anything, and two is to be able to itemize deductions at all. To equalize the treatment of HI premiums for all taxpayers, the employer-paid portion should be fully taxable and the employee-paid portion should be fully deductible like an IRA deduction and be removed from Schedule A.
Before the ACA, with the availability of health insurance so closely tied to employment (availability, non-exclusion of pre-existing conditions, premiums, etc.), there was, to a considerable degree, a tax subsidy slanted towards higher income folks that were employed in companies/organizations that provided health insurance. Companies paid for that benefit and it was tax deductible to the company. The individual who did not have employer available or provided health insurance both paid more (if it could be obtained) and probably received little or no tax break.
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stemikger
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by stemikger »

Julieta wrote:I'm checking the MN Sure website and discovered a plan call MN Care for incomes less than $23k for a single person or
$31k for a family of 2 persons.

The monthly premium payment is $50. There are additional payments for using the insurance but they are also at a low cost.

Does your ACA state website have a similar program for this income level?
While I do not have coverage under The ACA, my company is always laying people off, so I'm trying to find out as much as possible about it. On my last visit to my doctor, she said it is working great at the health center she works out of and where I go to see her. She said if I ever need to sign up, they have people on site right at the center and my plan would not change. If that is the case, that would be outstanding because I have a fantastic health plan which is HIP Prime in New York. So, that is not first hand, but that is from my doctor who told me she loves it.
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Julieta
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Julieta »

stemikger wrote:
Julieta wrote:I'm checking the MN Sure website and discovered a plan call MN Care for incomes less than $23k for a single person or
$31k for a family of 2 persons.

The monthly premium payment is $50. There are additional payments for using the insurance but they are also at a low cost.

Does your ACA state website have a similar program for this income level?
While I do not have coverage under The ACA, my company is always laying people off, so I'm trying to find out as much as possible about it. On my last visit to my doctor, she said it is working great at the health center she works out of and where I go to see her. She said if I ever need to sign up, they have people on site right at the center and my plan would not change. If that is the case, that would be outstanding because I have a fantastic health plan which is HIP Prime in New York. So, that is not first hand, but that is from my doctor who told me she loves it.
Excellent! Tomorrow I will check with my state insurance rep about ACA. They are having sessions at the public libraries where one can sign up for an appointment and meet in person to discuss coverage under the plan. I'm hoping this will be a good opportunity to find out more.
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freddie
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by freddie »

That is one subset. The other subset are the people that who have in the past been forced to buy insurance on the private market. I paid 4k/month for health insurance for a couple months. What was the tragic condition that resulted in these fees? My wife was pregnant. If your insurance is canceled (yes COBRA can be canceled before the 18 months is up), no one wants to take on the risk of a pregnant woman and you got dumped in the high risk pool. Having to pay most of the deductible 3 time in one year (Cobra plan, 4k plan, and then the normal 475/month plan. Last one only did about 200 of the 2500 deductible as I only had the plan for 2 months. The others maxed out) also felt like a rip off.


I agree using networth would have some pluses. The problem is that government really doesn't track it so you would have to drastically grow the IRS to handle it. I don't lose too much sleep over the people with 4 million dollars who want to live on 60k/yr. There just are not enough of them out there to matter.
bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium. It would be interesting to know how much we taxpayers paid in Jan, Feb
and March to the insurance companies for these subsidies. I believe a big mistake was made to only use income as the qualifier for subsidies rather than net worth as a qualifier as well.
MP173
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by MP173 »

For our family (employer based health insurance), the premium for the plan would have tripled (yes 3x) for 2014. The alternative was a HSA with high deductibles. We chose the HSA/high deductibles as a one year test.

Not complaining, just stating the facts.

My beliefs are that we will have to take a look in a couple of years to see how this has worked. Personally, I hope it does work (this being stated by a conservative who feels the health care issue must be addressed). I hope that last comment doesn't get this thread closed, if so, delete it. With all the delays and executive orders with the ACA, it is really difficult to get an accurate report card.

Ed
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Bustoff
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Bustoff »

I lost two of my three physicians, including primary care physician, because they don't accept the marketplace plans.
bluemarlin08
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by bluemarlin08 »

The tax subsidy is only for the portion of the premium the employer pays. Many employers only pay a portion of the employees premium and the employee pays the balance as well as any dependent coverage after tax.
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by goodenyou »

On my last visit to my doctor, she said it is working great at the health center she works out of and where I go to see her. She said if I ever need to sign up, they have people on site right at the center and my plan would not change. If that is the case, that would be outstanding because I have a fantastic health plan which is HIP Prime in New York. So, that is not first hand, but that is from my doctor who told me she loves it.
Employed doctors may like it. They do not meet a payroll, have no concerns about expenses and are shielded from the unpleasantries of insurance. It is their boss' problem. They just pick up a check at the end of the week. The reason many doctors and hospitals are not participating is that they are fully aware that it makes no financial sense nor is the risk of accepting it worth it. The reason many oncologists are not participating is that they are not going to shell out tens of thousands of dollars for medication only to be stiffed by the insurance company and patient. Same goes for a surgeon who operates on a patient that has not paid their premiums. The insurance will "let" you do the surgery and then deny the reimbursement. The surgeon has to try to collect from the patient. Good luck with that one. There is a movement to collect all fees upfront, and let the patient fight with their insurance carrier. You just have to find doctors that will participate. The only problem is that very few will and your waiting times may increase. Also, we are seeing many more denials on procedures, medication and imaging than ever before. Having insurance for many is great, until you need it.
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scrabbler1
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by scrabbler1 »

freddie wrote: I agree using networth would have some pluses. The problem is that government really doesn't track it so you would have to drastically grow the IRS to handle it. I don't lose too much sleep over the people with 4 million dollars who want to live on 60k/yr. There just are not enough of them out there to matter.
This would punish savers. Take two people with the same income, one spends it all while the other saves a good chunk of it. The spender gets a subsidy while the saver doesn't? Do we need the ACA to reward spenders and punish savers?
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by sss2009 »

There was so much of misinformation floating around that I was worried before signing up for a marketplace plan.
So I carefully studied the health coverage(benefits), network of providers (including Physicians and Hospitals) and pharmacy benefits between my current plan and the marketplace and realized they would be the same (or better than the existing one). I then called all my providers and the hospitals in the area, which I would visit if needed, and they acknowledged that they would accept the plan. After confirming all this, I signed up for a marketplace plan, it saved me 800$ per month!
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Valuethinker »

SnapShots wrote:Confused ... it appears from reading your responses you are one of the Invincible-20-Somethings and really aren't interested in health insurance because nothing is going to happen to you and if it does you just won't get treatment.

However, if you fall and break a leg, you'll likely get it treated. If you wife develops cancer, she'll likely get it treated. I suspect you have a parent who will step up and provide as much financial help as they can afford or not afford, if you are unable to get the quality treatment you think you need. And, you will end up with medical bills that will set your financial goals in life way back. Or, perhaps you'll take bankruptcy and let someone else pay for your care.

I'm not sure at your age and how being a student affects your qualifications, but there is also student insurance. I suspect you have not tried very hard to obtain any insurance for that matter.

I understand you are financially strapped but the new ACA was designed to help people like you. To act as if nothing will ever happen to you or your spouse, is an inappropriate and unrealistic response. As a parent, I would pay for a child's insurance plan to not only protect them but to protect myself. But, your families may not be in the positive to help.

Make a copy of your posts and this thread and look back at it when your 40. Or, when you have a medical issue and are forced to get treatment.

Best to you and hope you stay well ...
We had a long debate with Confused a few months (years?) ago about the necessity of health insurance. Most of us argued he (she?) should purchase health insurance-- effectively as a matter of civic obligation as well as prudence. He wasn't buying it, he could do without insurance. He's interested in saving for retirement, but not in having medical insurance.

ACA was bound to be worse than his current position, in his view, because it compels uninsured individuals to join the insured pool. Conversely from the point of view of his local ER, ACA was bound to be a good thing.

It's inevitable with something like ACA that somebody gets hurt, and that somebody is the young and the healthy (usually a strong correlation). The winners are those under 65 with chronic or otherwise insurance-adverse conditions.

that's the nature of all insurance, that most of us pay in more than we ever take out-- that is how risk pooling works.

Medical care is a particularly extreme case, because a case of cancer or major surgery can easily cost several hundred thousand dollars. As you point out, it's easy for one of us to go from the 'ripped off well' to the 'beneficial needy' in the flick of an eye: car accident, sudden cancer diagnosis, etc.

Medical insurance is a wee bit like lottery tickets. We buy them, we lose money (on average). Just every so often we are a big 'winner'. The only difference is its a lottery most (all) of us would rather not win.
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

Valuethinker wrote:
SnapShots wrote:Confused ... it appears from reading your responses you are one of the Invincible-20-Somethings and really aren't interested in health insurance because nothing is going to happen to you and if it does you just won't get treatment.

However, if you fall and break a leg, you'll likely get it treated. If you wife develops cancer, she'll likely get it treated. I suspect you have a parent who will step up and provide as much financial help as they can afford or not afford, if you are unable to get the quality treatment you think you need. And, you will end up with medical bills that will set your financial goals in life way back. Or, perhaps you'll take bankruptcy and let someone else pay for your care.

I'm not sure at your age and how being a student affects your qualifications, but there is also student insurance. I suspect you have not tried very hard to obtain any insurance for that matter.

I understand you are financially strapped but the new ACA was designed to help people like you. To act as if nothing will ever happen to you or your spouse, is an inappropriate and unrealistic response. As a parent, I would pay for a child's insurance plan to not only protect them but to protect myself. But, your families may not be in the positive to help.

Make a copy of your posts and this thread and look back at it when your 40. Or, when you have a medical issue and are forced to get treatment.

Best to you and hope you stay well ...
We had a long debate with Confused a few months (years?) ago about the necessity of health insurance. Most of us argued he (she?) should purchase health insurance-- effectively as a matter of civic obligation as well as prudence. He wasn't buying it, he could do without insurance.
Same exact conversation occurred earlier this month, but replacing the word "insurance" with "new tires."
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 3#p2015063
Mike Piper | Roth is a name, not an acronym.
Confused
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Confused »

ObliviousInvestor wrote:Same exact conversation occurred earlier this month, but replacing the word "insurance" with "new tires."
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 3#p2015063
Hey, what can I say? I track expenses and net worth like a hawk. From March 1, 2014 to April 1, 2014, our net worth went down $13.15, and that was with our investment portfolio increasing. Since April 1, we're down $370.38 net worth, but our retirement vehicles now cracked the five digit barrier. You try paying for insurance and new tires when you and your spouse live on $10.50/hour (and don't even get 40 hours) while also paying university tuition out of pocket.
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Jack »

bluemarlin08 wrote:The tax subsidy is only for the portion of the premium the employer pays. Many employers only pay a portion of the employees premium and the employee pays the balance as well as any dependent coverage after tax.
No, the entire premium is untaxed compensation, including for dependents. It makes no difference whether the employer pays it or the employee pays it. All of it is tax subsidized as unreported compensation. So, for example, a $16,000 family plan in the 25% tax bracket is a $4000 annual federal subsidy for health insurance. State taxes are subsidized as well.

The point is that some people seem to resent the fact that some others are receiving subsidies in the ACA plans. They seem to overlook the the fact the people in employer plans, more than half the population, have been receiving thousands of dollars of annual health insurance subsidies for decades. The ACA just extends some of those same subsidies to a subset of the individual market on a means tested basis. The employment subsidy is not means tested.

For 2014, the employer health insurance subsidy amounts to $250 billion a year compared to the ACA cost of $40 billion. People with employment health insurance have been receiving subsidies for so long that they simply take it for granted and may view ACA subsidies as unprecedented. They are not.
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by bluemarlin08 »

For 2014, the employer health insurance subsidy amounts to $250 billion a year compared to the ACA cost of $40 billion. People with employment health insurance have been receiving subsidies for so long that they simply take it for granted and may view ACA subsidies as unprecedented. They are not.
Excellent point and have never heard anyone discuss this subsidy in this fashion.
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ACA health insurance experience

Post by EyeDee »

Bustoff wrote:I lost two of my three physicians, including primary care physician, because they don't accept the marketplace plans.
.

Our primary care physician will not be covered under our new Exchange health insurance because his physicians group did not get signed up for either of the large local plans until after we had signed up for the other one. However, the new plan has a $5,600 smaller premium per year than our previous $19,000 per year for our terminated plan, not counting our subsidy. We expect the savings to more than cover the expenses of continuing to see our primary care physician although we might have to switch if either of us develop any conditions requiring frequent visits or related tests (if a doctor out of plan orders a test it is also not covered). The plan the doctor eventually joined, would have probably still saved us about $3,000 a year not counting our subsidy.

The sign up process was particularly difficult as we ran into several problems with the government site (we signed up in October) as well as problems with the insurer not being able to handle things properly, but the insurance has worked fine the first time we used it for an included specialist and looks like it will save us considerable in premium costs. My current concern is how smoothly the renewal process will go in the fall (if things go well with our primary care physician this year we are likely to stay with our current coverage as my wife prefers the hospital associated with it, because of the lower costs, and much better customer service while trying to get information from both plans during enrollment.)
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by SnapShots »

goodenyou wrote:20% of the people drive 80% of the cost. Healthcare is no exception. The 20% of the people (high utilizers) will be happy to have insurance, 80% of us will begrudge paying a lot for the ability to sleep at night. The ACA is good for hospitals and terrible for doctors. If you show up at a hospital, there is no guarantee that the doctor taking care of you accepts a potentially lousy fee schedule and is not "in-network". Hospitals don't take care of you, doctors that may not be on your insurance do. There is a huge push to try to employ doctors, but hospitals cannot employ all doctors of all specialties. I posted a while ago in another discussion thread that patients are being duped into believing doctors are on their plans. They are misled and are very disappointed when they find that the doctors are not. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/0 ... rnia-list/. Doctors are not taking the risk that they will lose money (patients that don't pay in days 30-90), nor are they willing to accept fees that would make a plumber laugh. Getting people who have their financial lives put together with Scotch Tape signed up for insurance is no panacea. They have no money for deductibles, co-pays or any additional OOP expenses. Many will realize this and question whether it makes any sense to pay monthly premiums as well.
I'm old enough to have heard all of this before: After Canada went to a publicly funded healthcare system the media was full of dire predictions: Canadian doctors were leaving in droves and swarming to the US. Patients will not be able to get seen.

Not true. Didn't happen. While not perfect, as no system is ... Canadians love their healthcare system and are NOT running to the US to pay for our very expensive healthcare. Canada still has doctors who practice and see Canadian patients.

When Medicare got started in the US there was an outcry from Doctors. They didn't want it!!!

What happened: They got rich because of it. Before Medicare they either didn't get paid or families had to sign a contract assuring they would pay for their parent's care. (Back then some people could actually pay afford healthcare) Sure, there are some low reimbursement rates; especially compared to the made up costs doctors and hospitals but on their charge lists.

The majority of doctors have parents who are or will someday be elderly and will need a doctor. And, doctors themselves will some day (if lucky) be old and need a doctor ... and they too will be on Medicare because there is no one else to insure them.

Few doctors can afford NOT to take Medicare, or join insurance plans: ACA or otherwise. This is a scare tactic to say doctors are not going to see the elderly; although I'm sure it's hard to get seen by a doctor in large cities even if you are not on Medicare. Perhaps that's a good reason not to live there. :wink:

In the area I live in, doctors are joining hospitals and they are making more money than they ever have. If the government goes to a global payment system, they will share in what the hospital makes.

Take this information from a person who worked in the medical field, whose parents were in medicine and someone who married medicine, whose doctor husband retired 5 years ago ... at the wrong time. Specialists in his area are now commanding and make a whole lot more than five years ago. :oops:

I'll be glad when we get back to the day when doctors went into the practice of medicine .... instead of the practice of making money.
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by cubedbee »

cheapskate wrote:
bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium.
Not necessarily true. My ACA premiums for similar coverage as I get from my employer will be 10+% higher (compared to COBRA) and with higher deductibles and copay. But I am still planning on going with ACA for a couple of reasons - COBRA will end in 18 months and much more importantly, I know that insurance companies can never deny payment or exclude treatment claiming pre-existing conditions.

For me, the fact that I and my family can never be denied coverage or be given the run around (when it comes to payment) with the ACA is huge. I have no issues paying a bit more for that assurance.

I have been burned in the past where (employer PPO insurance) has given me a very hard time paying for legitimate medical bills in *in-network* facilities.
I would think the bolded sentence is going to get worse under ACA, not better. Insurers can no longer control their pool's claims costs by undewriting and excluding the unhealthy. It makes logical sense that they will try to control costs in other ways --- and strict utilization management is a way to do that. I would expect claim denials to increase --- they'll follow the letter of the contract to a t and anything that's slightly questionable about being covered they will deny, so that the customer has to go through the hassle of dealing with their customer service and/or filing and appeal to get the claim covered.
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by bungalow10 »

cubedbee wrote:
cheapskate wrote:
bluemarlin08 wrote:The main reason folks seem to be happy with the ACA is others are paying a portion of their premium.
Not necessarily true. My ACA premiums for similar coverage as I get from my employer will be 10+% higher (compared to COBRA) and with higher deductibles and copay. But I am still planning on going with ACA for a couple of reasons - COBRA will end in 18 months and much more importantly, I know that insurance companies can never deny payment or exclude treatment claiming pre-existing conditions.

For me, the fact that I and my family can never be denied coverage or be given the run around (when it comes to payment) with the ACA is huge. I have no issues paying a bit more for that assurance.

I have been burned in the past where (employer PPO insurance) has given me a very hard time paying for legitimate medical bills in *in-network* facilities.
I would think the bolded sentence is going to get worse under ACA, not better. Insurers can no longer control their pool's claims costs by undewriting and excluding the unhealthy. It makes logical sense that they will try to control costs in other ways --- and strict utilization management is a way to do that. I would expect claim denials to increase --- they'll follow the letter of the contract to a t and anything that's slightly questionable about being covered they will deny, so that the customer has to go through the hassle of dealing with their customer service and/or filing and appeal to get the claim covered.
The cool part of the ACA is that the insured can find a new insurance company if they aren't happy. This will most likely have a positive influence on the level of service. Insurance companies have had a captive market for too long....
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by goodenyou »

SnapShots wrote:
goodenyou wrote:20% of the people drive 80% of the cost. Healthcare is no exception. The 20% of the people (high utilizers) will be happy to have insurance, 80% of us will begrudge paying a lot for the ability to sleep at night. The ACA is good for hospitals and terrible for doctors. If you show up at a hospital, there is no guarantee that the doctor taking care of you accepts a potentially lousy fee schedule and is not "in-network". Hospitals don't take care of you, doctors that may not be on your insurance do. There is a huge push to try to employ doctors, but hospitals cannot employ all doctors of all specialties. I posted a while ago in another discussion thread that patients are being duped into believing doctors are on their plans. They are misled and are very disappointed when they find that the doctors are not. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/0 ... rnia-list/. Doctors are not taking the risk that they will lose money (patients that don't pay in days 30-90), nor are they willing to accept fees that would make a plumber laugh. Getting people who have their financial lives put together with Scotch Tape signed up for insurance is no panacea. They have no money for deductibles, co-pays or any additional OOP expenses. Many will realize this and question whether it makes any sense to pay monthly premiums as well.
I'm old enough to have heard all of this before: After Canada went to a publicly funded healthcare system the media was full of dire predictions: Canadian doctors were leaving in droves and swarming to the US. Patients will not be able to get seen.

Not true. Didn't happen. While not perfect, as no system is ... Canadians love their healthcare system and are NOT running to the US to pay for our very expensive healthcare. Canada still has doctors who practice and see Canadian patients.

When Medicare got started in the US there was an outcry from Doctors. They didn't want it!!!

What happened: They got rich because of it. Before Medicare they either didn't get paid or families had to sign a contract assuring they would pay for their parent's care. (Back then some people could actually pay afford healthcare) Sure, there are some low reimbursement rates; especially compared to the made up costs doctors and hospitals but on their charge lists.

The majority of doctors have parents who are or will someday be elderly and will need a doctor. And, doctors themselves will some day (if lucky) be old and need a doctor ... and they too will be on Medicare because there is no one else to insure them.

Few doctors can afford NOT to take Medicare, or join insurance plans: ACA or otherwise. This is a scare tactic to say doctors are not going to see the elderly; although I'm sure it's hard to get seen by a doctor in large cities even if you are not on Medicare. Perhaps that's a good reason not to live there. :wink:

In the area I live in, doctors are joining hospitals and they are making more money than they ever have. If the government goes to a global payment system, they will share in what the hospital makes.

Take this information from a person who worked in the medical field, whose parents were in medicine and someone who married medicine, whose doctor husband retired 5 years ago ... at the wrong time. Specialists in his area are now commanding and make a whole lot more than five years ago. :oops:

I'll be glad when we get back to the day when doctors went into the practice of medicine .... instead of the practice of making money.
You are completely misguided for a number of reasons. Unfortunately, this not a forum for debate. I have credentials too. A lot of them. If you want to compare Medicare rates from the 1970s to today, please do. What you will find that in real dollars (after inflation), doctors make a fraction of what they made back then. If you think doctors can "get rich" off $60 office visits, you are kidding yourself. Doing surgery is a money loser. Getting paid a few hundred dollars for a surgery and a 90 free period is a joke. Hospital cannot fee share. It is called a kickback. Doctors in hospitals do not make more money. There is a reason why doctors don't take Medicaid and many are closing their practices to Medicare. ACA fee schedules are below Medicare. I know. I negotiate them.
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SnapShots
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by SnapShots »

Insurance companies must spend 80-85% of premium money on healthcare or rebate you the difference. Insurance companies no longer can deny claims, keep the money and put in their pockets.

80/20 Rule Delivers More Value to Consumers in 2012

The Affordable Care Act holds health insurance companies accountable to consumers and ensures that American families receive value for their premium dollars. Because of health care reform, insurance companies now must disclose how much they spend on health care and how much they spend on administrative costs, such as salaries and marketing. If an insurance company spends less than 80% (85% in the large group market) of premium on medical care and efforts to improve the quality of care, they must rebate the portion of premium that exceeded this limit. This rule is commonly known as the 80/20 rule or the Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) rule.

Click link below for the rest of the story.....

http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Form ... report.pdf
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by goodenyou »

SnapShots wrote:Insurance companies must spend 80-85% of premium money on healthcare or rebate you the difference. Insurance companies no longer can deny claims, keep the money and put in their pockets.

80/20 Rule Delivers More Value to Consumers in 2012

The Affordable Care Act holds health insurance companies accountable to consumers and ensures that American families receive value for their premium dollars. Because of health care reform, insurance companies now must disclose how much they spend on health care and how much they spend on administrative costs, such as salaries and marketing. If an insurance company spends less than 80% (85% in the large group market) of premium on medical care and efforts to improve the quality of care, they must rebate the portion of premium that exceeded this limit. This rule is commonly known as the 80/20 rule or the Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) rule.

Click link below for the rest of the story.....

http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Form ... report.pdf
That makes no difference to doctors. The fees schedules are below Medicaid or Medicare rates regardless of MLR. They do deny claims all the time. They deny on "medical necessity" by having a retired OB/GYN doctor deny orthopaedic surgery or many other types of surgery outside their field. They deny medications, radiology and surgery all day long. Spend a day in a busy surgeon's office, You will see the sausage being made.
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Julieta
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Julieta »

Julieta wrote:I'm checking the MN Sure website and discovered a plan call MN Care for incomes less than $23k for a single person or
$31k for a family of 2 persons.

The monthly premium payment is $50. There are additional payments for using the insurance but they are also at a low cost.

Does your ACA state website have a similar program for this income level?

I'd appreciate feedback on the OP, specifically IF YOU have ACA insurance, what is your experience?
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SnapShots
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by SnapShots »

goodenyou wrote:
SnapShots wrote:Insurance companies must spend 80-85% of premium money on healthcare or rebate you the difference. Insurance companies no longer can deny claims, keep the money and put in their pockets.

80/20 Rule Delivers More Value to Consumers in 2012

The Affordable Care Act holds health insurance companies accountable to consumers and ensures that American families receive value for their premium dollars. Because of health care reform, insurance companies now must disclose how much they spend on health care and how much they spend on administrative costs, such as salaries and marketing. If an insurance company spends less than 80% (85% in the large group market) of premium on medical care and efforts to improve the quality of care, they must rebate the portion of premium that exceeded this limit. This rule is commonly known as the 80/20 rule or the Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) rule.

Click link below for the rest of the story.....

http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Form ... report.pdf
That makes no difference to doctors. The fees schedules are below Medicaid or Medicare rates regardless of MLR. They do deny claims all the time. They deny on "medical necessity" by having a retired OB/GYN doctor deny orthopaedic surgery or many other types of surgery outside their field. They deny medications, radiology and surgery all day long. Spend a day in a busy surgeon's office, You will see the sausage being made.
Really!? I don't know any poor doctors and I pretty much know all of them in my area. I know some who have a whole lot more than others ... but they all eat, have homes, travel and live pretty darn good. Not to say, there are not problems. What you describe has been going on for a long, long time. I've seen a whole lot of sausage being made. What you describe is nothing new.
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by MNBob »

Per Jack’s comment, he seems right on the money – people who get their health insurance through their employer have been receiving subsidies for so long that they simply take it for granted. The employer health insurance subsidy is a very sweet $250 Billion per year tax break (no FICA, Federal or State taxes) that dwarfs the ACA cost of about $40 Billion per year. Yet, somehow people become very alarmed about the ACA subsidy. Jack actually understates the problem – the ACA should have a higher subsidy than it currently does to achieve equity with the employer health insurance subsidy.

Consider the following case:

Two families. Both are a Family of 4, income $90,000, $9,416 annual health insurance premium, federal income taxes of $8,362

Family 1:
This family buys their own insurance

ACA Tax Credit = $866 (per Kaiser calculator)

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calc ... -tobacco=0

Family 2:
Because this family receives Employer Health Insurance, their entire premium is tax deductible

Tax Savings = $2,698

So the first family is ...
1) STILL getting [taken advangage of --admin LadyGeek] by the laws
2) STILL paying $1,830 more in taxes than the second family, who has the exact same premium and the exact same salary, JUST because the second family gets employer insurance
3) and to add insult to injury, the first hard-working family is getting attacked for being sponges and taking "handouts". While the Family 2 somehow feels they have the moral high ground.

And if Family #1 makes $95,000 they are double [taken advangage of --admin LadyGeek]. They don't get the super sweet Employer Health Insurance tax break OR the measly ACA tax credit. They get NUTHIN'.

In no universe is an $866 tax credit against income taxes of $8,362 a "handout."

And to make matters worse, as Jack stated above – as Family 2 makes more money they get a BIGGER tax savings. The old system was regressive on top of it! I have no earthly idea why this has not been brought up in the news. Everyone simply looks past the disparity. Why is Family 2 so special?
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LadyGeek
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by LadyGeek »

Please stay on-topic, which Your Experience with ACA health insurance.

We're now discussing employer subsidies (general comments, not actionable) and some stray discussions into politics (off-topic) - which is not the point of the thread.
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Julieta
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Re: If you have ACA health insurance, what is your experien

Post by Julieta »

+1
I'm looking for your experience, IF you have ACA insurance.
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