Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Gnirk
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:11 am
Location: Western Washington

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by Gnirk » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:51 am

Achelois wrote:I would not encourage your mom to keep the de facto property division wherein she has the house and he has the pension. Women, for some reason, seem to want the house even when it is not necessarily in their best interest. If your mom has been traditional, she may lack the skills to do maintenance, she will have property taxes and homeowners insurance, etc as well. She may have to hire lawn maintenance, etc., very expensive.

If I were in her position, I would encourage the sale of the house and ask for all proceeds to be split, all retirements accts to be split, all pensions, etc. to be split down the middle., especially if her own retirement pension is negligible. Half of his pension amount is income for life.

+1
Too often, the house becomes a liability down the road. It's not always easy to keep the emotional attachment to the home at bay, but try your best.

2beachcombers
Posts: 573
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Savannah

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by 2beachcombers » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:24 pm

The Wizard wrote:
Dutch wrote:Sometimes getting a lawyer involved in a divorce, is just a different way of losing money.

...which is why my ex and I used a mediator in our D and saved thousands.
But in this situation, there's stuff that needs protecting using valid advice.
If a divorce happens downstream, it will depends on how cooperative both combatants turn out to be...



+!, +2, +3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

minskbelarus47
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:02 pm

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by minskbelarus47 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:59 pm

Why do you say half of his pension.

In some states, pensions, even military pensions, are considered "property" and are not limited to a 50% division, but can be considerably higher.

This is what lawyers get paid for. And look for a female judge...

Achelois
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by Achelois » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:16 pm

minskbelarus47 wrote:Why do you say half of his pension.

In some states, pensions, even military pensions, are considered "property" and are not limited to a 50% division, but can be considerably higher.

This is what lawyers get paid for. And look for a female judge...



If you are referring to me, I mentioned half because I think it is a reasonable starting point given that the OP stated his father took exactly half of an account's value, sort of a "precedent", if you will. I believe that each spouse generally should be credited with half the contribution to the marriage, whether or not these are monetary, unless there are very extenuating circumstances--laws may or may not agree with me.

Each state's laws and each person's situation are different, of course. In my own case, my ex got most of everything, but our earning capabilities were radically different and I was young enough to rebuild and recoup with hard work. My ex was unfaithful, but he was not financially irresponsible, so I had no problem with the division of property.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by leonard » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:42 pm

I'm sorry. The husband has been gone one day - and people are advising lawyers and splitting property. Sure, the wife should find all this out - but she should even with or without the husband.

Couples splitting then getting back together are a pendulum. It could happen multiple times before it's either resolved by reconciliation or divorce.

Advising divorce and divvying up assets on day 2 of what amounts to a split seems premature - based on the information we have.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

Achelois
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by Achelois » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:00 pm

leonard wrote:I'm sorry. The husband has been gone one day - and people are advising lawyers and splitting property. Sure, the wife should find all this out - but she should even with or without the husband.

Couples splitting then getting back together are a pendulum. It could happen multiple times before it's either resolved by reconciliation or divorce.

Advising divorce and divvying up assets on day 2 of what amounts to a split seems premature - based on the information we have.




I can speak only for myself, but if someone to whom I was married did this, I would most definitely be going my separate way.

ddunca1944
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:49 pm

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by ddunca1944 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:22 pm

Achelois wrote:
leonard wrote:I'm sorry. The husband has been gone one day - and people are advising lawyers and splitting property. Sure, the wife should find all this out - but she should even with or without the husband.

Couples splitting then getting back together are a pendulum. It could happen multiple times before it's either resolved by reconciliation or divorce.

Advising divorce and divvying up assets on day 2 of what amounts to a split seems premature - based on the information we have.




I can speak only for myself, but if someone to whom I was married did this, I would most definitely be going my separate way.


+1

If she accepts him back after something like this, she would be telling him that she is willing to be a doormat.

Besides, according to the OP, this couple did not split. One abandoned the other without warning.

DetroitRed
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 4:16 pm

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by DetroitRed » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:36 pm

The beneficiary of her TSP and Roth is probably her husband.

I'd ask the lawyer if they'd recommend changing that right away.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by leonard » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:53 pm

ddunca1944 wrote:
Achelois wrote:
leonard wrote:I'm sorry. The husband has been gone one day - and people are advising lawyers and splitting property. Sure, the wife should find all this out - but she should even with or without the husband.

Couples splitting then getting back together are a pendulum. It could happen multiple times before it's either resolved by reconciliation or divorce.

Advising divorce and divvying up assets on day 2 of what amounts to a split seems premature - based on the information we have.




I can speak only for myself, but if someone to whom I was married did this, I would most definitely be going my separate way.


+1

If she accepts him back after something like this, she would be telling him that she is willing to be a doormat.

Besides, according to the OP, this couple did not split. One abandoned the other without warning.


I agree with both of you. Yet, reconciliation still happens. I think it's always a good time to get educated - but wait until the sky is actually falling before diving full in.

And, I will throw in we are hearing one side of the story - and that side is second hand - so again - hard to recommend putting lawyers on retainer.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

User avatar
frugaltype
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by frugaltype » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:12 pm

leonard wrote:I'm sorry. The husband has been gone one day - and people are advising lawyers and splitting property. Sure, the wife should find all this out - but she should even with or without the husband.

Couples splitting then getting back together are a pendulum. It could happen multiple times before it's either resolved by reconciliation or divorce.

Advising divorce and divvying up assets on day 2 of what amounts to a split seems premature - based on the information we have.


She may not want to take legal steps at this point, but, imho, she should absolutely take steps to safeguard herself financially. What if he cleans out all the accounts and disappears to Brazil or something. Not unheard of.

User avatar
c00kie
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:31 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by c00kie » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:52 pm

Jeanz wrote:If his pension is subject to ERISA, as most are, while they are married she has rights under Federal law to a survivor annuity, I think half. He can waive the survivor annuity if she consents, as in this case she shouldn't. While they both live, or if they divorce, I believe that she needs to obtain a court order, probably as part of the divorce proceedings. It's called a QDRO, Qualified Domestic Relations Order. An elderly relative somehow managed to waive her rights without quite realizing what she was doing; it's quite unfortunate.

If this is a total surprise, your father may be ill; in that case, you'll still need a lawyer to help protect him as well as your mother. It's good of you to help.


It may be a total surprise to your mother and financial planning to your father. His decision to file for divorce may have been made 2 years ago. He may have decided to wait until after he retired to file for divorce so that he could get her to sign the consent to waive her survivor's annuity. Waiving her annuity would increase his monthly benefit. Since it effects the computation of the monthly benefit, the waiver is explained during the retirement process and the retiree has the opportunity to submit the waiver at that time.

Did your mother sign any documents related to your father's retirement? You need to check on this immediately as there may be a period of time to withdraw the waiver.

Good luck.
Cookie

wilked
Posts: 1203
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:50 pm

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by wilked » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:18 am

Thanks again for the replies. I don't plan to update any further, but the situation is unchanged, and it will be a week today. I do appreciate it

thebogledude
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:40 am

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by thebogledude » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:40 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:Wilked:

You made a statement that carries a lot of weight:
Half of savings removed (down to the penny).


Your dad is not void of character. Hopefully, your parents will be able to work together for the betterment of everyone.

Best wishes.
Taylor


That just says his father covered his bases and didn't want to get shut off from his cash. I would hardly call that character.
Keep in mind, not only did he walk out on his wife but the son as well. No class.
Last edited by thebogledude on Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

thebogledude
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:40 am

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by thebogledude » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:47 am

ddunca1944 wrote:
If she accepts him back after something like this, she would be telling him that she is willing to be a doormat.

Besides, according to the OP, this couple did not split. One abandoned the other without warning.


Depends on how the mom feels but the Irish in me would make it so that coming back would not even be an option.

dfwjoel
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:21 am

Re: Father left my Mother Suddenly, Need advice

Post by dfwjoel » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:15 am

I would also consider freezing her credit. Like everyone else said, he doesn't seem to be completely unreasonable (despite leaving only a note) since he took only half of the liquid savings but stranger things have happened than one spouse opening credit cards in the other's name without permission.

Post Reply