New job with new commute, worth it?

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Bacchus01
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New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Bacchus01 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:32 am

This seems like a no brainer to me, but I always like to hear the BH opinion.

New job opportunity with new company. Pays about $60K more. Yep, a fair bit of money.

But, my daily commute would go from about 30-40 minutes to 50-60 minutes.

You can never get that time back, but the pay and the job are big jumps and would probably accelerate my retirement in the future.

Seems like a no brainer, especially when I consider the people who commute 90 minutes each way daily, but then again, I do have it nice now.

The Wizard
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by The Wizard » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:36 am

Bacchus01 wrote:This seems like a no brainer to me, but I always like to hear the BH opinion.

New job opportunity with new company. Pays about $60K more. Yep, a fair bit of money.

But, my daily commute would go from about 30-40 minutes to 50-60 minutes.

You can never get that time back, but the pay and the job are big jumps and would probably accelerate my retirement in the future.

Seems like a no brainer, especially when I consider the people who commute 90 minutes each way daily, but then again, I do have it nice now.
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Watty
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Watty » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:53 am

But, my daily commute would go from about 30-40 minutes to 50-60 minutes.
Is that one way or round trip?

Either way moving close to the new job could be an option if the commute is too long for you.

playtothebeat
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by playtothebeat » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:58 am

I live in Southern California. Here, a 45-60 minute commute is very typical. My commute was 45 minutes to go from Santa Monica to Downtown LA, and that was about 15 miles..

I'd definitely do it. This also hopefully establishes a higher pay baseline for your next position/job.

TRC
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by TRC » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:58 am

Is there an option to work remote 1-2 days per week? Or work four 10 hour days instead?

ieee488
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by ieee488 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:12 am

Bacchus01 wrote:This seems like a no brainer to me, but I always like to hear the BH opinion.

New job opportunity with new company. Pays about $60K more. Yep, a fair bit of money.

But, my daily commute would go from about 30-40 minutes to 50-60 minutes.

You can never get that time back, but the pay and the job are big jumps and would probably accelerate my retirement in the future.

Seems like a no brainer, especially when I consider the people who commute 90 minutes each way daily, but then again, I do have it nice now.
You'd be surprised how much that extra 15-20 minutes adds up.

I had a job where it was 40-45 minutes one-way, and then I took a job where it was 60 minutes. Made a lot of difference.

Also with jobA, there was usually never any traffic problems, but with jobB, that 60 could easily turn into 70 minutes.

I know that $60K is a lot but how much are you really getting extra if you subtract out the commute time and gas.
Yes, I know the next employer only looks at the $ figure and nothing else, but it will be important to your lifestyle.
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nepats
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by nepats » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:13 am

How big of a % jump is 60K relative to your salary? Do you have a family with young kids or other commitments that will be affected? I have reached a point in my career and life that I would trade money for time with the family and friends.

Hikes_With_Dogs
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Hikes_With_Dogs » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:17 am

My questions echo others: do you have a family and children at home that will miss you? Will your relationships suffer by being away from home longer?

What % of your salary increase is that? If you make 60k now that's a big deal... if you make 250k... not so much.

Can you move closer? I know I could personally not handle that long of commute, especially in a car.

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cheese_breath
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by cheese_breath » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:19 am

For $60K you could almost hire a chauffeur to drive you to work and back. :P

Seriously though, you probably waste more time than that doing nothing every day. Invest some of that wasted time into the commute instead. Plus an extra $60K gives you that much higher starting point when negotiating salary for your next job.
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Mandrale » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:29 am

Let's say 40 extra minutes/day round trip and you work 300 days per year.

40*300 = 12,000 extra minutes per year

12,000 / 60 = 200 extra hours per year

$60,000 / 200 hours = $300/hr.

Yeah, I'd do it.

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:45 am

Bacchus01 wrote:This seems like a no brainer to me, but I always like to hear the BH opinion.

New job opportunity with new company. Pays about $60K more. Yep, a fair bit of money.

But, my daily commute would go from about 30-40 minutes to 50-60 minutes.

You can never get that time back, but the pay and the job are big jumps and would probably accelerate my retirement in the future.

Seems like a no brainer, especially when I consider the people who commute 90 minutes each way daily, but then again, I do have it nice now.
Are you serious? You need to have a bunch of Bogleheads weigh the time cost vs. cost of retiring early on your terms?
Jump on it! it's not like money is falling out the window of every potential employer. Let's see 1 hour extra per day x 5 days a week. 5 hours a week times 48 weeks of working - that is worth $250 a hour to you for which your future new employer is willing to pay you if you take the job.
If you don't take the job, your gross pay reduction is $1,250 per week. So, is it worth it to be on the road for an additional 20 hours a month for $5K?
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cheese_breath
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by cheese_breath » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:47 am

Viewing this from a different perspective, if your boss offered to pay overtime @ $100 per hour I bet you'd jump at the opportunity and take all the hours you could get. The new job pays you somewhere 2 1/2 to 3 times that much for your extra commute time. Duh!
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by KyleAAA » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:51 am

I'd probably go for it. The difference in commute time isn't great for a $60k raise. If it was an additional hour each way, I would think long and hard. In any event, I find I get a lot of thinking done on the way to work.

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by ieee488 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:59 am

cheese_breath wrote:Viewing this from a different perspective, if your boss offered to pay overtime @ $100 per hour I bet you'd jump at the opportunity and take all the hours you could get. The new job pays you somewhere 2 1/2 to 3 times that much for your extra commute time. Duh!
No, I would not jumpt at the overtime. My time is not worth the same as what I am getting at work.
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Oilburner » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:06 pm

For me, I would do it even if the salary increase was quite a bit less. Last time I got laid off I took a 20% cut at the new place and my commute went from 30 minutes to an hour.

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JupiterJones
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by JupiterJones » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:42 pm

Heck, I'm not even sure I'd want your current job with the 30-40 minute commute. I'm currently spoiled by a short commute.

But yeah, in your case, since you don't mind long commutes already, and since you'd (hopefully) make up that lost time and then some by being able to retire earlier thanks to the pay jump, I'd go for the new job, all other things (job security, etc.) being equal or greater.
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by DoWahDaddy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:52 pm

Hikes_With_Dogs wrote:What % of your salary increase is that? If you make 60k now that's a big deal... if you make 250k... not so much.
Ha! Please. I doubt you'll get many takers if you offer someone who's making 250k a 20 minute shorter commute in exchange for 190k.

60k is a big hunk of cheese for 99% of us. If you commute by car, it's a win-win. Take the cash, enjoy the drive.
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by jlawrence01 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:53 pm

Or you can move closer to the new job and reduce your total commute.

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by stoptothink » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:57 pm

JupiterJones wrote:Heck, I'm not even sure I'd want your current job with the 30-40 minute commute. I'm currently spoiled by a short commute.

But yeah, in your case, since you don't mind long commutes already, and since you'd (hopefully) make up that lost time and then some by being able to retire earlier thanks to the pay jump, I'd go for the new job, all other things (job security, etc.) being equal or greater.
+1. One of the primary factors in my quality of life is work commute (or lack of). At my previous position I commuted 90min each way, and Friday evenings were far worse; told myself I'd never do it again. I love my .75 mile commute, and the fact that I can literally run home at any point in the day. I turned down a more lucrative offer which would have been about 40min each way...but it wasn't a $60k difference. For a 50% bump in income (which that would be for me), I'd be happy to hang up my bike and hop in the car for my work commute.

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Mitchell777 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:18 pm

If you're making $700K and you're going to $760K I'd think about it. If you're making $80K and your going to $140K I'd jump at it. just important to understand the new commute. Have you driven it at the time you will make it once you're working there? I recall interviewing for a job, twice, and thinking how easy the commute was both times. Then I started making it at rush hour, actually not even rush hour, and it took much longer and was much more hectic. I've also found that, for me, the first 20 or 30 minutes is not bad but after that it gets long.

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by YttriumNitrate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:59 pm

Bacchus01, based on your old posts you've got assets over $1 million with household income over $250k right now. $60k is a nice boost, but it's not a life changing amount of money.

I'd say try the new commute for a week by taking the LONG way to work at your old job. If getting up a bit earlier and getting home later doesn't bother you much, then go for the new job.

Bacchus01
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Bacchus01 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:26 pm

Good feedback. Yes, those numbers are about right for us.

I don't need anyone to help make the decision, but I always like to hear how others might look at a situation.

I do have a family commitment. We have 3 boys (12, 7, and 4) that are very active in sports, but fortunately most of their sporting events are on the weekends.

My commute today is variable. It can be anywhere from 25 minutes if traffic is good to over an hour if traffic is really bad. It usually averages 30-40 minutes and it's not a problem at all. It's about 20 miles.

The new commute would not have any traffic issues but it is a full 45 miles (highway) and would take me 50-55 minutes regularly.

One other aspect I really didn't mention is travel. In my current role I travel about 25% international and 25% domestic. I would probably reduce that to very short domestic travel of 20-25% and just 1-2 international flights a year. Those international trips can be fun, but are also a pain. I just got back from Australia last week. For a 2-day meeting, I had to leave on Sunday afternoon and returned at 9PM Friday night. Was not fun.

Love hearing how people look at things.

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by umfundi » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:31 pm

Commuting time is (almost always) waste.

Unless you are not the pilot and can do something that is useful.

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by gkaplan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:32 pm

Books on tape.
Gordon

Bacchus01
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Bacchus01 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:34 pm

jlawrence01 wrote:Or you can move closer to the new job and reduce your total commute.
Moving is not really an option at this time. The kids have formed roots and we want to keep it that way for a while.

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Meg77
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Meg77 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:01 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:The new commute would not have any traffic issues but it is a full 45 miles (highway) and would take me 50-55 minutes regularly.

One other aspect I really didn't mention is travel. In my current role I travel about 25% international and 25% domestic. I would probably reduce that to very short domestic travel of 20-25% and just 1-2 international flights a year. Those international trips can be fun, but are also a pain. I just got back from Australia last week. For a 2-day meeting, I had to leave on Sunday afternoon and returned at 9PM Friday night. Was not fun.
In this case I think you will be FAR better off in the new commute than in the old one. I commuted around Dallas for 18 months in a rotation program years ago to 12 or so different locations (the shortest was 5 minutes, longest around 80 minutes) and learned a lot about how different commutes affected me. Distance isn't as big of a factor as ease of the commute. Driving to and from our offices in Fort Worth (appx 45 minutes for me at the time) was one of the highlights because even though it took longer than many of my other stints, it was a straight shot down one highway and the traffic flowed easily. I could leisurely drink my coffee and listen to NPR without the aggravation of stop and go traffic which requires much more focus, wheel gripping, and (in my case) loud cursing. I much preferred that commute to the one up I-35 which only took 20-30 minutes but was much more soul-crushing.

Also if you KNOW it'll be 50 minutes or so and traffic doesn't vary as much, that makes planning each day much easier. The risk that it could take anywhere from 30-70 minutes makes each day more stressful and causes you to lose a lot of unnecessary time leaving early for appointments on the off-chance traffic is bad.

Finally, the travel being less is great too. Those are key differences that in my opinion make this job better than your current one, increased salary aside.
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Bacchus01
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Bacchus01 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:13 am

gkaplan wrote:Books on tape.
Any good suggestions?

Better yet, any good apps that allow for email to voice conversion so you can get through some emails on the drive?

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by JupiterJones » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:34 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
gkaplan wrote:Books on tape.
Any good suggestions?
Yeah. Forget about the "tape" part and get an iPod. :D

Suggestions for audio books would be like suggestions for regular books... it depends on what you like. Financial books? Self-help? Sci-fi? Classics? (I'm partial to detective novels on long trips.)

Apart from audio books, podcasts are a great way to spend a drive. Start with your favorite NPR or other radio show and go from there.

You could also consider something like Pimsleur. If you did one 30-minute lesson each working day, you'd be fairly conversationally fluent in the language of your choice in about six months.

The Great Courses might be another good learning option. I've checked out a few of these from the library for road trips and really enjoyed them.
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Meg77
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Meg77 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:30 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
gkaplan wrote:Books on tape.
Any good suggestions?

Better yet, any good apps that allow for email to voice conversion so you can get through some emails on the drive?
I subscribe to some podcasts like Freakonomics Radio, The Diane Rehm Show, and Think, all of which help me get through road trips and long drives. 60 minutes is a good option too. Also I like just listening to NPR in general in the mornings, depending on what time it is. Books are another matter, but I find I like 26-55 minute informational "shows." My friend listends to sci-fi novels constantly in her car on "tape." To each her own.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin

reggiesimpson
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by reggiesimpson » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:47 pm

Mandrale wrote:Let's say 40 extra minutes/day round trip and you work 300 days per year.

40*300 = 12,000 extra minutes per year

12,000 / 60 = 200 extra hours per year

$60,000 / 200 hours = $300/hr.

Yeah, I'd do it.
Yup, i was just about to do the math when i saw your post. Obviously makes sense.
Go for it!

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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by wageoghe » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:01 pm

JupiterJones wrote: The Great Courses might be another good learning option. I've checked out a few of these from the library for road trips and really enjoyed them.
I will note that Audible.com recently added The Great Courses (TGC) to their selection of audio material. They are a real bargain, as compared to the typical prices at TGC. I can't remember if TGC says this, or if it is generally understood, but just about every course offered by TGC is put on sale at least once per year. My understanding is that one should never buy at "list price" from TGC because of the big difference between list price and sale price. Here is a rough progression of pricing for a course from TGC (I am putting these numbers from memory, so they won't be 100% accurate, but they do give an accurate representation of what one might expect to pay).

Some TGC Course (I first looked up these numbers for a WWII course that was about 18 hours long)
TGC list price: $200+
TGC sale price: $45
Audible.com list price for non-members: $46
Audible.com list price for members: $29
Audible.com "credit price": 1 credit (depending on your subscription plan, 1 credit is worth between $12-$15)

If a TGC (that I would like to buy) is available for less than the value of one of my credits (I found some $10 ones recently), then I purchase with money rather than credits.

So, buying TGC courses with Audible.com credits is a great deal.

I have really enjoyed the TGC that I have listened to so far. I will note that there are not many reviews of the courses on Audible.com. So, if you like to use reviews to help you pick which courses to buy, read the reviews on TGC, then find the courses on Audible.

As JupiterJones noted, TGC (and other audio books) are often available from libraries on CD.

Here is a tip...

I was given some TGC on CD and I wanted to listen to them on my iPhone. At the time, I could not get iTunes to run (or even install) on my Windows 7 laptop, so I could not use iTunes to do it. Instead, I ripped the CDs via Windows Media Player. Then I used http://www.shchuka.com/software/mergemp3/ to merge the tracks (each lecture in a course is about 30 minutes and consists of about 5-6 tracks) into MP3 files that corresponded to one "part" of the course (the WWII course consisted of 3 parts, each about 8 CDs long). On my iPhone, I use Downcast to listen to Podcasts. Downcast can also import sound files from DropBox. So, I put the merged MP3s into my DropBox. For each MP3 that I wanted to load into Downcast, I went into the Dropbox app and made that file a "favorite". (Favorites are actually downloaded to the device). With the file on the device, select the file in Dropbox and choose Import (I think). You will get a prompt that will show you the apps on the iPhone that you can use to view/"play" the file. If Downcast is installed, it will be presented as a choice. Import into Downcast, and you can save it for listening later.

Now that I have typed it out, that seems like a pretty convoluted workflow, and there might be an easier way, but that it what I came up with and it works. I guess I'm lucky that I don't have a lot of TGC on CD!

Bacchus01
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Re: New job with new commute, worth it?

Post by Bacchus01 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:04 am

reggiesimpson wrote:
Mandrale wrote:Let's say 40 extra minutes/day round trip and you work 300 days per year.

40*300 = 12,000 extra minutes per year

12,000 / 60 = 200 extra hours per year

$60,000 / 200 hours = $300/hr.

Yeah, I'd do it.
Yup, i was just about to do the math when i saw your post. Obviously makes sense.
Go for it!
Well, if we are going to do the math that way, there are some flaws in your example above.

There are only 260 weekdays in a year that I would work, not 300. Of those, I have 5 weeks of vacation (-25 days) and holidays (-10). I will probably travel about 25% of the remaining time (-56) and work from home 2 days a month (-24). Total actual commute days is therefore just 145.

145*(2/3) hr = 97 exhtra hours per year.

$68,400 / 97 hours = $705/hr

:)

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