Are hybrid cars cost effective?

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tadamsmar
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Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by tadamsmar »

Our main wheels were totaled in a freak accident the other day. My wife ran over some trash in the road and it apparently lodged in the right front wheel well and started a friction fire. (My wife did not hear a difference in sound and she did not see the trash when she stopped to check.) My wife is OK, but their was a big fire in the whole under hood area.

This was a 2008 Accord with leather seats and an I4 (4 cylinder) engine. We will probably get something in the same class, but probably a newer used or new car.

My wife seems to be interested in hybrids and similar. But I am not sure if any are cost effective when you otherwise compare apples with apples.

I know the Prius looks pretty good in terms of total cost to own vs an Accord, but I think I get less car with the Prius.

I am not one to spend an extra $2000 a car without at least a break even ROI just to support a cause, I think it might make more sense to support the cause more directly.
ourbrooks
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by ourbrooks »

Are larger engines to provide better acceration or more comfortable interiors cost effective? I know that sounds like a strange question, but people are willing to pay extra for them.

I find that hybrid cars are simply better cars to drive. The electric motor provides a degree of low speed control you can't get with an internal combustion engine. Think getting into a tight parking space on a steep hill or a traffic jam on a steep hill and trying to give it enough gas to inch forward but without ramming the car ahead. I'd buy a hybrid even without the gas savings.

If you've got an Accord now, why not an Accord or Camry or Ford Fusion hybrid? The Fusion now even includes a plug-in model. If your daily commute is less than five miles, the Fusion is the best of all worlds, an electric car most of the time and a hybrid on the open road.

By all means, try driving a hybrid car before deciding. Make sure your road test includes creeping slowly up a steep hill.
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Kosmo
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Kosmo »

You can estimate the purely mathematical comparison. Increased fuel economy is obviously a plus, but maintenance (I've heard) is more expensive. The answer to that depends on how much you drive. Will those costs offset the difference in purchase price? After how many miles?

Of course the real answer is can you find a hybrid with the body style, interior, and features that you want. My personal opinion is that the functionality and comfort of the car impact my decision far more than the price. YMMV. Literally.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by bottlecap »

My guess is probably not, but it depends on your driving habits and needs. If I was tempted to buy one of these, the first thing I would do is ask my mechanic if he could service the hybrid components. If not, I'd definitely go for the gas only model. I get attached to things and drive them for a long time.

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momar
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by momar »

A lot of sedans are getting really great mileage now. The new Mazda6, which also looks gorgeous, gets 26/38.

A key thing to keep in mind is that increases at the low end of efficiency are much more cost effective than increases at the high end.
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Hayden
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Hayden »

Your specific driving habits are important. For us, we drive straight on the highway very long distances. We were deciding between the Highlander Hybrid and gas models. The hybrid was a lot more expensive at the time. When we did the math, the hybrid did not make sense. We are getting roughly 24 mpg with the gas model.
letsgobobby
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by letsgobobby »

Depends on your driving but consumer reports says hybrids are among the cheapest cars to operate over five years. Not just gas but maintenance and reliability. They discourage buying luxury hybrids. We own a prius and are stunned by the technology and mileage and will never go back to a regular car. I get 55 mpg in mixed driving.
jlawrence01
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by jlawrence01 »

When I was last in the market for a new vehicle in 2007, the BEST deal that I could get for a Toyota Corolla was $14k and a Toyota Prius was $26k. I could not see any possibility of ever making up the difference with the cost of gas around $2.

Last month, I started looking at it again as I may need to buy a car for my wife. The numbers are now more like $16k and $19k for the Prius C. With gas at $4, the break-even will be between 80k and 100k miles.
ndchamp
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by ndchamp »

letsgobobby wrote:Depends on your driving but consumer reports says hybrids are among the cheapest cars to operate over five years. Not just gas but maintenance and reliability. They discourage buying luxury hybrids. We own a prius and are stunned by the technology and mileage and will never go back to a regular car. I get 55 mpg in mixed driving.
Totally agree.
As a 2 Prius family (wife-silver, mine-red) I would also like to point out the resale value remains high. And, on a 2 week vacation, the Prius easily holds all the luggage with room to spare.
I don't think I would consider Honda's hybrids as they seem to have serious battery problems.
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/honda-civic ... 49961.html
fisher_man89
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by fisher_man89 »

Hybrids undoubtedly get better gas mileage, but you are really prepaying or subsidizing your future gas cost with better and more costly technology.
While 50mpg sounds great and is much better than 30, the difference is not so great in dollars (especially as gas cars push towards 40mpg).

Comparing base models: Toyota Prius Two and a Toyota Camry (4cyl):
The Prius has an average cost of $2461 higher ($23,410).
Let's say 50% of the miles are highway, for an average of 49.5mpg and 30mpg.
It would take over 46k miles to break even, just on gas cost (at $4 a gallon).
At $6/ gallon, the Prius looks better: it takes just over 31k miles to break even.

To put it another way, gas is a small part of the overall cost of a car.
For 100,000 miles gas costs: $8,080 and $13,333 for each.
Compared to the initial cost, gas is not that big of deal.

When the Prius first came out the break even was horrible, but it doesn't look bad now.
But it depends on one's annual mileage and how long the car is kept.

I have a older v10 E-350 van which gets healthy 12mpg (with a value of ~$3000).
Assuming $5k in extra maintenance for an older vehicle, it would take a new Prius 60,625 miles to break even with it.
In other words, $20k buys a lot of gas (and maintenance).
Since I only drive it about 5k/yr it would be more cost effective to drive an old 15 passenger van over a new Prius for over 12 years! (disregarding any size, passenger capacity, towing, and parking differences).

Of course, strict financial analysis is not the reason behind car purchases.
Gas mileage in abstract is not a smart reason to buy a car, though it plays a part in comparison to the initial cost.
Thankfully, there are plenty of other factors besides the financial analysis in the decision.
Or else, we would all ride bicycles and mopeds.
letsgobobby
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by letsgobobby »

jlawrence01 wrote:When I was last in the market for a new vehicle in 2007, the BEST deal that I could get for a Toyota Corolla was $14k and a Toyota Prius was $26k. I could not see any possibility of ever making up the difference with the cost of gas around $2.

Last month, I started looking at it again as I may need to buy a car for my wife. The numbers are now more like $16k and $19k for the Prius C. With gas at $4, the break-even will be between 80k and 100k miles.
A Prius and a Corolla are really not comparable. Also a Prius (not C) mid-range is closer to $24k-$25k now.

Obviously if you don't drive a lot it will never work out. We drive 25k miles per year in the Prius so the decision was easy.
dbltrbl
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by dbltrbl »

We have a Prius since 2006. I can tell you we are happy with it and our maintenance costs are lower than on my Accord. . As other posters have said, if u drive 5000 miles a year, hybrid wont recoup your investment. But 15000 or more per year you will recoup the extra costs. In addition, number of trips to gas station saves you time and Money. If you feel up once a month instead of 3 times a month, even an increase in gas price does not hurt same.

Do not compare Prius C. It is a cheap looking and feeling car. Regular Prius is a good size car, tad smaller than accord or Camry but much bigger than Corolla or Civic.

Can u forecast that in next 5 years, gas prices will stay around same as now $ 4.00 per gallon? Anytime it goes up hybrid starts looking much better.

Hope this helps in your decision.
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greg24
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by greg24 »

letsgobobby wrote:A Prius and a Corolla are really not comparable. Also a Prius (not C) mid-range is closer to $24k-$25k now.
Totally agree. A Prius and Corolla are just not in the same class. The Prius is more analogous to the Camry, at worst 90-95% of the "niceness".

A hybrid is also an insurance policy against large gas price spikes, which are certainly a possibility.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by inbox788 »

tadamsmar wrote:I know the Prius looks pretty good in terms of total cost to own vs an Accord, but I think I get less car with the Prius.

I am not one to spend an extra $2000 a car without at least a break even ROI just to support a cause, I think it might make more sense to support the cause more directly.
Absolutely! With the right car and driver, hybrids can make a whole lot of sense. The most popular hybrid Prius is the benchmark, and most other hybrids don't come close as far as cost effectiveness. Because the main savings is gas consumption, drivers who drive a lot are the ones who benefit the most.

Don't overlook plugin or plugin-hybrid if you're the right kind of driver, the savings can be even more substantial. Just know the limitations, especially the plugins.

How many miles do you drive a year and how far is your daily commute each stop?

There's always a bit of Tesla Math when figuring out cost effectiveness, but not all the math is flawed.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intellig ... h-model-s/
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tadamsmar
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by tadamsmar »

I think we put about 12,000 miles per year on the car we are replacing. My wife is retired and I commute in a transit van. We have a 2nd car, but we drive it very little.
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tyrion
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by tyrion »

I recently got a hand me down Prius. It's a 2007 and has been a wonderful car. A few observations:

If you drive it moderately, the brake pads will last an incredibly long time because engine breaking (to recharge the battery) does most of the work slowing the car down. They have never been replaced on mine (55k miles).

The first 5 minutes of use are always the worst gas mileage, because the engine is inefficient while warming up. So even a Prius driven moderately is in the 25-35mpg range. After warming up, it's in the 50-60 mpg range. So if you have a commute of less than 5 miles or so, you will not get great MPG numbers regardless of your car. This is not just a prius issue, it affects all internal combustion engines. Conversely, if you can use a plug in hybrid and don't exceed the range regularly you never need the engine so can bypass this until you take a longer trip.

The prius also has nice technology features. All cars have come a long way in this area, but do measure the perks of the prius when compared to your benchmark. Bluetooth phone and audio, keyless ignition, etc.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Needtoknow »

I own a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid. I bought it new in 2006. Other than oil changes and regular maintenance checks, I have had NO problems. I like the mileage a great deal. I usually get around 35 mpg but depending on what and where I am going I can do better or worse. I have about 125,000 miles on it and plan to keep it until it dies. I also have two BMW's (a 240 DL and and an X5). What's also nice about my hybrid that has additional savings is the fact that I don't have to get a smog check every year. In California that is required every other year and it costs.

I love my hybrid! It's quiet and efficient. A great buy.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Ged »

Hybrids have one 'feature' that makes them a little less cost effective that just the gas mileage might indicate.

It's the high battery voltage. The voltages on these batteries are high, sometimes over 200V. This makes it problematical for a weekend mechanic to work on one of these cars. For me that's pretty discouraging as I like to do a lot of my own maintenance. Over the life of the car it saves me thousands of dollars.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by interplanetjanet »

Ask yourself what your needs are - what are your expected driving patterns, how long do you tend to keep vehicles?

Consider unusual alternatives. If you are in an area with a good refueling infrastructure, CNG vehicles can be extremely good as far as running costs are concerned. They also may qualify you for some benefits that non plug-in hybrids do not in some areas (lower registration fees, carpool lane access, decreased or free bridge tolls).
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by letsgobobby »

if you do your own work that's probably a fair point.

in general, however, the Prius has been one of the most reliable cars on the road, so it hasn't demanded a lot of expensive maintenance on average.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Sidney »

interplanetjanet wrote: If you are in an area with a good refueling infrastructure, CNG vehicles can be extremely good as far as running costs are concerned. They also may qualify you for some benefits that non plug-in hybrids do not in some areas (lower registration fees, carpool lane access, decreased or free bridge tolls).
Probably handy for tailgate parties at football games.
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Ged
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Ged »

letsgobobby wrote:if you do your own work that's probably a fair point.

in general, however, the Prius has been one of the most reliable cars on the road, so it hasn't demanded a lot of expensive maintenance on average.
A Camry is also a very reliable car.

From the comparisons I've seen on web sites it looks like the maintenance costs are not that different. Some say the Prius is a bit less expensive to maintain, others say its a bit more.

I think it boils down to how many miles you drive. 15,000+ the Prius has the edge unless you do your own maintenance. Below 10,000 a Prius is not cost-effective.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by grabiner »

You also need to consider where you drive.

When I bought my Honda Civic in 2007, I lived in Maryland, half a mile from a freeway entrance. My compute was almost all on the freeway, as were most of my non-commuting trips. The hybrid would save me very little in gas with all the driving on the freeway, and I decided that it didn't even make environmental sense for me to buy one; the hybrid would use less gas, but the environmental impact of building the hybrid would be greater. The conventional-engine Civic gets about 36 MPG going 70 mph on the freeway, and averaged 32 MPG overall.

But this turned out to be the wrong decision when I moved to NJ. I now drive mostly around town, and it's a 10-mile drive on streets with lots of lights to get to the nearest freeway. I would probably get almost the same mileage with a hybrid in NJ as I did in MD, but the conventional-engine mileage has dropped to about 27.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by squirm »

It's a good hedge against higher gas prices, in addition when you sell the car, there could be a premium on the sale price, depending on fuel costs.
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Frengo
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Frengo »

A car is first and foremost a statement about its owner style, like a nice suit. What does a hybrid says about you ?
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by cjking »

Frengo wrote:A car is first and foremost a statement about its owner style, like a nice suit. What does a hybrid says about you ?
I think a Prius is, inside and out, one of the most attractive cars on the road. The body shape has purity, simplicity and economy governed by function that beats everything else. The internal design is simpler, less cluttered and more futuristic than any other car I've been looking at. (Have looked at a variety of Mercedes, BMWs, Audis, VW Golf.)

I do find a Range Rover Evoque sexier, and it has more luxurious interiors in a range of colour schemes.

If I could get a Prius with white and cherry red interior that is my favourite of the Evoque colour schemes, that would be ideal.

I've heard it said that a Prius is not much of a drivers car. I haven't driven one, so don't know what it's like. I live in the middle of a big city, I don't have much use for performance.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by econinmn »

One thing I didn't see anyone point out is it does really depend upon where you live. Here in MN the weather significantly decreases the improvement in gas mileage. With a typical work commute and the MN winter, you are driving in cold weather a lot. We have a number of friends with hybrids and they lose about 1/2 of their gas mileage improvement in the winter.

I have never been able to make the math work here based on the length of our commutes, but I would expect that California or Florida would be significantly more cost effective.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by letsgobobby »

econinmn wrote:One thing I didn't see anyone point out is it does really depend upon where you live. Here in MN the weather significantly decreases the improvement in gas mileage. With a typical work commute and the MN winter, you are driving in cold weather a lot. We have a number of friends with hybrids and they lose about 1/2 of their gas mileage improvement in the winter.

I have never been able to make the math work here based on the length of our commutes, but I would expect that California or Florida would be significantly more cost effective.
don't traditional internal combustion cars also become less fuel efficient at colder temperatures?
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by squirm »

Frengo wrote:A car is first and foremost a statement about its owner style, like a nice suit. What does a hybrid says about you ?
Not for me. A car is a box on 4 wheels. Image means nothing. Just want to get from point A to point B.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by squirm »

I think you'll come out ahead if you buy a hybrid. We have Prius'es (sp?) at work. They constantly get 50mpg. I think you might be spitting hairs trying to figure out the ROI. There are too many unknown variables. Like I told my parents, buy the car you like just don't go overboard, enjoy it, you only live once.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by econinmn »

I have never been able to make the math work here based on the length of our commutes, but I would expect that California or Florida would be significantly more cost effective.[/quote]
don't traditional internal combustion cars also become less fuel efficient at colder temperatures?[/quote]

Not at nearly the same level. the regenerative braking system is more heavily reliant on heat. We seem to lose a few mpg in our gas cars but friends with hybrids, especially small engine hybrids lose about 1/3. I believe Motor Trend does hybrid comparisons specific to cold weather for just these reasons. It may not be a large issue in moderate climates, but we can have 30 days in a row where your commute temp won't break zero farenheit at least in the mornings and so the entire trip utilizes only the gas engine. The people we know with hybrids here are doing it more for environmental reasons the cost savings.

I' not on a computer where I can generate the links but there are some good articles on the subject.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by sls239 »

My Honda Civic hybrid has totally spoiled me. After almost 11 years I'm a bit miffed that I might actually have to pay for a repair. And, I might need to replace the brake pads for the first time in the next year or two.

That said, I would consider where and when you drive - hybrids have more of an advantage in stop-and-go type driving, test drive the cars you are interested in, hybrid or not, then make the decision.

If I were doing a 10 mile commute or so, I'd definitely consider a plug-in.

And remember, when I bought my car, gas was $1.34 a gallon.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by greg24 »

We live in Iowa, so we are impacted by cold weather, though maybe not to the degree that MN is.

Our Prius averages right at 50mpg over the long term. During a terrible winter, it can average 45 to 46 during a bad couple weeks. But nothing like losing 1/3 of its efficiency.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by playtothebeat »

too many variables.

Does your state have carpool (HOV) lanes? I know some states allow you to use the carpool lane even as a single driver if you're in a hybrid or electric car. This is HUGE in CA. I believe now you can only get an HOV sticker for a single driver if you have an electric (but not a hybrid). However, this was arguably one of the main reasons people bought hybrids down here, and why you see Volts all over the road here in the last year or so.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Frengo »

squirm wrote: Not for me. A car is a box on 4 wheels. Image means nothing. Just want to get from point A to point B.
and that too is a statement about your style :)
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by MnD »

The 2010-2011 Altima hybrid was one of the last ones to have federal tax credits available.
We snagged both the federal and a big state hybrid tax credit, the new car tax deduction, a big rebate from Nissan and bought the vehicle for $200 under invoice.

So yes for $14,000 under the sticker price after stacking the 5 credits and discounts is was a cost effective purchase.
We love it - great power, handling and efficiency at the "cost" of a smaller trunk.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by mmmodem »

It is subjective on whether you get more car with the Prius or not. I find the hatchback form factor with its larger cargo capacity more car than a large sedan with more creature comforts. Everyone will have their own opinion.

With gas currently at $4/gallon and 50 mpg combined the Prius costs $0.08/mile. The Accord gets 30 mpg combined which yields $0.13/mile in fuel costs. Take the delta and divide into the $2000 additional cost of a Prius and you arrive at 37500 miles to break even.

Prius is one of the most reliable and low maintenance cars on the road despite the battery. So I'm using the assumption that both will have equal maintenance costs. Do not forget about insurance. My Civic insurance was $200 more per year. 4 door hatchbacks have lower insurance compared to 4 door sedans in general. That will drive the payback period sooner than it takes to accumulate 37500 miles.

A high voltage battery is of concern but realize the Accord alternative is an internal COMBUSTION engine. One is not worse than the other. There is no extra maintenance with a hybrid. The battery never needs service. It just gets replaced like your TV remote batteries. Cost is significant when it goes bad. But like I already said, look at any survey on maintenance costs and the Prius will be one of the lowest costs I ownership.

And finally, I own a Prius Plug in that allows me to drive solo in the HOV lanes. I am biased.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by stoptothink »

mmmodem wrote: A high voltage battery is of concern but realize the Accord alternative is an internal COMBUSTION engine. One is not worse than the other. There is no extra maintenance with a hybrid. The battery never needs service. It just gets replaced like your TV remote batteries. Cost is significant when it goes bad. But like I already said, look at any survey on maintenance costs and the Prius will be one of the lowest costs I ownership.
Don't disagree, just playing devil's advocate, but the Prius has both a high voltage battery and an internal combustion engine. One is not worse than the other, but having both means one more expensive thing that can fail. Reviews seem to show that the Prius is one of the lowest maintenance vehicles on the road so it doesn't seem to matter.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by soaring »

For an apples and apples comparison, price the Toyota Camry and the Camry Hybrid. You will find the hybrid is about $4000-$5000 more depending on many factors. You could then factor the mileage difference and how many miles and what type miles, hwy or city, that you travel and then figure your savings or cost over your expected years of ownership based on fuel costs.

Unless you put many many miles on your car it is likely an expense not a savings. I think most people that buy hybrid are making a statement but not necessarily saving money or braking even.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by squirm »

soaring wrote:For an apples and apples comparison, price the Toyota Camry and the Camry Hybrid. You will find the hybrid is about $4000-$5000 more depending on many factors. You could then factor the mileage difference and how many miles and what type miles, hwy or city, that you travel and then figure your savings or cost over your expected years of ownership based on fuel costs.

Unless you put many many miles on your car it is likely an expense not a savings. I think most people that buy hybrid are making a statement but not necessarily saving money or braking even.
Yeah, but there is about a $2500 premium in resale value for the hybrid with identical options, per KBB.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by mmmodem »

Forgot apples to apples comparison. There will be an Accord hybrid soon. For now, we can use the fuel economy of the Plug in model for comparison. Electricity is a separate MPGe in case anyone is wondering if electricity is included.

30 mpg combined at $4/gallon gas is $0.13/mile
The hybrid estimate gets 46 mpg combined with a cost of $0.087/mile

If the cost differential were $2000 then payback occurs at 43125 miles. I'm going to guess that the cost will be much greater than $2000. But even at $4000 difference, you will reach parity at 86250 miles. I've never gotten rid of a car with less than 100000 miles on the odometer. I will definitely save money getting the hybrid. You'll need to look at how many miles you plan to drive the car.

PS. The Accord plug in is ~$6000 more than the regular gas version. That's 130000 miles for payback and I'm not including lower cost electricity. So payback even on that high of a price difference is there. It all depends on how far you plan to drive your car.

To argue the other side, if you plan on driving few miles or lease cars every 3 years, hybrids will likely cost more money. If you purchase a high mileage hybrid, say >150000 miles when battery replacement is likely to occur soon, then hybrids may cost more money.
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Ged »

squirm wrote: Yeah, but there is about a $2500 premium in resale value for the hybrid with identical options, per KBB.
Yes, but that varies depending on the price of gas and the particular model of car.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/resale-val ... hicles.htm
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Frengo
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Frengo »

mmmodem wrote: If the cost differential were $2000 then payback occurs at 43125 miles. I'm going to guess that the cost will be much greater than $2000. But even at $4000 difference, you will reach parity at 86250 miles. I've never gotten rid of a car with less than 100000 miles on the odometer. I will definitely save money getting the hybrid. You'll need to look at how many miles you plan to drive the car.
Have you considered that most of the cost differential is upfront, while you'll get your payback distributed over 86250 miles ?

Are there estimates of how long a battery pack lasts ? A well maintained gas engine can definitely make it to the 150k mark.

also, what about diesel cars ? Perhaps if one doesn't care about style and wants to save money that would be a superior solution to hybrids.
squirm
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by squirm »

Ged wrote:
squirm wrote: Yeah, but there is about a $2500 premium in resale value for the hybrid with identical options, per KBB.
Yes, but that varies depending on the price of gas and the particular model of car.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/resale-val ... hicles.htm
I used the Camary LE vs the Hybrid and made any adjustments to the options, I think that JBL was the only one I had to add to the LE.
Price of gas is unpredictable, so I think that would just be scratched.
letsgobobby
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by letsgobobby »

soaring wrote:For an apples and apples comparison, price the Toyota Camry and the Camry Hybrid. You will find the hybrid is about $4000-$5000 more depending on many factors. You could then factor the mileage difference and how many miles and what type miles, hwy or city, that you travel and then figure your savings or cost over your expected years of ownership based on fuel costs.

Unless you put many many miles on your car it is likely an expense not a savings. I think most people that buy hybrid are making a statement but not necessarily saving money or braking even.
I thought the price differential was closer to $3000 and it was an upscale model so apples to apples the difference was more like $2000. But I looked one year ago and don't remember offhand.

But that's not relevant to your second claim, which I think is probably not true. The most popular hybrid by far is the Prius, and its mileage is so substantially better than any other car (at least 25% better on the highway than a really efficient 40 mpg car like a Ford Fusion hybrid or a Mazda3, and about 50-100% better in city driving) that many people who drive just slightly-higher-than-average miles will more than make up the difference with any higher upfront cost with the Prius. In our case, the breakeven will probably be within 18 months, with gas at $4 (pretty typical for Portland-Seattle, where we live). In fact, at 25k miles per year, we save $2000 per year in gas costs over our old car (a 1996 Camry) which means within 12.5 years we'll essentially pay for the entire Prius itself - not just the delta from a lower-priced vehicle.
avalpert
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by avalpert »

squirm wrote:
Frengo wrote:A car is first and foremost a statement about its owner style, like a nice suit. What does a hybrid says about you ?
Not for me. A car is a box on 4 wheels. Image means nothing. Just want to get from point A to point B.
What makes you think that is a statement about your style?
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Ged
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by Ged »

letsgobobby wrote:In fact, at 25k miles per year, we save $2000 per year in gas costs over our old car (a 1996 Camry) which means within 12.5 years we'll essentially pay for the entire Prius itself - not just the delta from a lower-priced vehicle.
Yes, but that doesn't apply to a comparison of current models. A new Camry has a 35 mpg rating. So you would expect more like a 800 dollar a year savings if you drive 25,000 miles per year. And 25,000 miles is about twice what the average American drives.
sambb
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by sambb »

Cost effective is differnt for some people.
I have colleagues who used to drive BMW or mercedes, but not drive a prius.
They would never drive a corolla, etc.
To them it is a choice between a 5 series car (for luxury and prestige) OR a prius (because it is 'in' to be for high MPG)
lindisfarne
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by lindisfarne »

It depends on the hybrid car, your driving habits, what car you would otherwise buy, what other good-for-environment things you might do with the extra $ you would pay for a hybrid, and what you think gas prices might do in the future.

For example, depending on how well your house is insulated & how much you potentially could save in heating costs, you might do more for the environment and get more bank for your buck by insulating your house, instead of spending a few thousand extra on a hybrid.

I have a Toyota Corolla that gets close to 40 mpg if I drive between 55-60 mph (in city is more like 27-28 mpg). Depending on your driving habits, you might be able to come close to the mileage you get with a good hybrid (forget the SUV hybrids unless you'd buy an SUV with even more mileage otherwise). Of course, you can save plenty of money by purchasing a low-end car like a honda civic, fit, or toyota yaris or corolla (and especially one that is a few years old (you save on insurance & registration, too).

All in all, it's not a simple calculation!
lindisfarne
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Re: Are hybrid cars cost effective?

Post by lindisfarne »

Ged wrote:
letsgobobby wrote:In fact, at 25k miles per year, we save $2000 per year in gas costs over our old car (a 1996 Camry) which means within 12.5 years we'll essentially pay for the entire Prius itself - not just the delta from a lower-priced vehicle.
Yes, but that doesn't apply to a comparison of current models. A new Camry has a 35 mpg rating. So you would expect more like a 800 dollar a year savings if you drive 25,000 miles per year. And 25,000 miles is about twice what the average American drives.
That 35 mpg rating is highway. What is city? And what are your driving habits (mainly city or highway, jackrabbit starts, exceed speed limit, etc?).

And, if you arranged to telecommute to work one day a week, or take public transit one day a week, you might find yourself saving even more money & doing more for the environment than you would by buying a hybrid. Of course, it all depends on the nature & length of your commute & how much you drive otherwise.
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