Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Condo?

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wholeinone04
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Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Condo?

Post by wholeinone04 »

I've been going back and forth the past couple months and every day I change my mind so I thought I'd ask for some advice. Maybe someone has been in a similar situation before.

Here's some personal info if it helps:
26 yo male
160k in retirement accounts
65k in cash(short-term investments)

Option 1: Sell the Condo

I bought a condo in San Diego in April of 2010 for 280k, been living there for 3 years. My fiancee just got into med school in Irvine(about 1 hour away) and we're going to be moving up there at the end of July. My condo is somewhat upgraded(granite counters, new tile floors, ss appliances, etc) and if I were to list it, it would probably sell in the 330-350k range. 1 unit just sold for 325k and was original everything and another one not quite as nice as mine but very close sold for 340k.

I owe 215k on the property, so minus 5k closing costs/repairs and 5% realtor fees a 330k sale would net me 93.5k in cash(28.5k profit in 3 years). So obviously a great return on my money.

Option 2: Rent out the condo

I have done a couple test listings on craigslist and I've also kept my eye on the rental market and I should be able to rent out my property for $1700-$2000 a month. I think the $1700 number is a bit conservative but I'm going to assume that for now, $1800 would probably be more realistic though.

My total expenses on the property(mortgage, prop. tax, insurance and hoa) are $1615 a month. I am putting $370 into principal each month and I have a tax savings of about $100 a month(I calculate this by adding up yearly interest and prop tax payments minus the standard deduction - $6100).

I've seen all sorts of numbers about what to assume for vacancies, expenses, etc but I am fairly sure the condo will rent out fast and not much is going to break.

Rent or Sell?

Obviously if I sold I would make a great profit but I'm also worried about what to do with that money. I want to buy more property but I probably won't be able to do it for four years(or more maybe 6-7, after residency is done) until we know where we're going to end up. So there aren't any good options to invest that money in for a 4-7 year period right now, so I feel like it would be a waste of 100k just sitting there earning 1% :(

We haven't got the student aid package but I'm assuming my fiancee will get loans to cover most of tuition and they won't need to be repaid for four years(is that how these things work, that's how my college loans worked). I should be able to cover most of our living expenses for us during that time without dipping into savings.

I am leaning towards renting out the place for two reasons. I want to eventually get into buying multi-family units and things of that nature so I feel like this would be a good test run. The second/third reason is I wouldn't know what to do with that 100k if I sold and I think the housing market is going to keep going up. So why sell something that will probably keep going up or at worst stay the same. FYI, my unit was one of the lowest sales price in the recent history of the complex(a few short sales in there for 250, 225, 250 in the past couple years).
cestan
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by cestan »

sell it. if you marry this lady you both will be moving a lot in the next decade. sell it. use money for her med school tuition?
camiboxer
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by camiboxer »

Can't forget that your insurance will increase with the condo being a rental.
Also have to determine if you are going to hire a property management company to take care of it since you will be 100 miles away. Their fees will take a bite out of your monthly rent.
ieee488
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by ieee488 »

sell it
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Clearly_Irrational
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Clearly_Irrational »

I like rentals, however since it's a condo you should sell.
campy2010
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by campy2010 »

Federal student loans for professional school don't need to be repaid until you graduate but start accruing interest from day 1. The interest rate is 6.8% on the first $20.5k per year (Stafford) and 7.75% on any additional loans (Grad Plus). In addition, there is a 4% origination fee added to each loan.

Anyway, sell the condo. Federal student loans are too expensive if you have an alternative. Just make sure the relationship is strong enough to last though med school + residency. You're both young and med school is challenging in the best of times.

Good luck.
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gasman
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by gasman »

campy2010 wrote:Federal student loans for professional school don't need to be repaid until you graduate but start accruing interest from day 1. The interest rate is 6.8% on the first $20.5k per year (Stafford) and 7.75% on any additional loans (Grad Plus). In addition, there is a 4% origination fee added to each loan.

Anyway, sell the condo. Federal student loans are too expensive if you have an alternative. Just make sure the relationship is strong enough to last though med school + residency. You're both young and med school is challenging in the best of times.

Good luck.
+1. If she is the one, use the cash so she has to borrow less. Financially this is a no brainer.
jghassell
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by jghassell »

Just to echo some of the sentiments here: be very careful using your money to pay for her education, especially if you aren't yet married. Things look a lot different before school than after and that's not really money you'll ever recover if things go south. It's not a romantic thought, but then again life is sometimes very unromantic.
rallycobra
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by rallycobra »

Sell the condo and marry her before school starts. 4 out of 50 women in my class were engaged when they entered med school. All left their fiancées for classmates before graduation!
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Paul78
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Paul78 »

jghassell wrote:Just to echo some of the sentiments here: be very careful using your money to pay for her education, especially if you aren't yet married. Things look a lot different before school than after and that's not really money you'll ever recover if things go south. It's not a romantic thought, but then again life is sometimes very unromantic.

THIS.

Unless you are married do not use this sum (28k+) to pay for her tuition.

What happens if you give her this 28k and you never get married.

What happens if she marries you but divorces you before 10 years and when she is still a resident (ie without moonlighting making less then an rn makes).

If you end up married to a person making significantly less then this doctor you might what to have that 28k.
stjoe56
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by stjoe56 »

rallycobra wrote:Sell the condo and marry her before school starts. 4 out of 50 women in my class were engaged when they entered med school. All left their fiancées for classmates before graduation!
I have heard this too. Same things applies to law school.

Instead of paying for her education, loan her the money at the minimum gov't rate. Once you get married you can forgive the loan. If she dumps you, then you can go after her for the loan.

SJ
Calm Man
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Calm Man »

stjoe56 wrote:
rallycobra wrote:Sell the condo and marry her before school starts. 4 out of 50 women in my class were engaged when they entered med school. All left their fiancées for classmates before graduation!
I have heard this too. Same things applies to law school.

Instead of paying for her education, loan her the money at the minimum gov't rate. Once you get married you can forgive the loan. If she dumps you, then you can go after her for the loan.

SJ
This is hilarious. I just spoke to my daughter yesterday. She is finishing the 1st of 4 residency years in anesthesia. She was upset at the beginning because she said "everybody" (that's how kids talk) was engaged or married. I told her not to worry. That kids who get engaged or married before 30 and are professionals won't be (with the same person) by age 30. So I asked her yesterday about all the engaged and married ones. Well a slew are divorced, separated and/or getting divorced. Particularly for you OP, buys whoa re not physicians get dumped by these women at a very high rate. Vice versa is true also but at a somewhat lower rate. So please, do not commingle anything, don't sell anything (certainly not even consider it until married) and be aware that you may have limited rights to what you lay out if any should the engagement or marriage falter. Talk to your father !!!!
Spiffs
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Spiffs »

I feel like this is getting kind of off-topic, but just to provide a counterweight, I know friends who got engaged or married while one was in med school, and they are still very happily married and are very glad that they made the decisions that they did. I think the talk about how an engagement or marriage is likely to fail if it happens while one is in med school is a bit overblown.
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FelixTheCat
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by FelixTheCat »

Here's a little advice from a guy that was madly in love with some assets, got married and divorced X years later. I would protect yourself financially.

I would keep all pre-marital assets in your name only before and during the marriage. I would rent the condo because San Diego property is in an up-swing at the moment. If things work out, you have a rental property. I have a rental in San Diego and it is always rented with very low turn-over. If things don't work out, you always have a home to go back to.

Best of luck on your new adventure.
Felix is a wonderful, wonderful cat.
OverTheHill
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by OverTheHill »

I think the last three responses make excellent points. I'm fully retired now, and like others in my age group I've seen a lot over the years. While there's a good chance you would be happy selling the condo and using the money to help your wife-to-be, there's also a good chance that you won't be happy. I personally would hate to be a landlord or own rental properties, but there are many folks who do well at it. If you already think you're one of these people, then I would keep the condo and see how things work out with your med school wife-to-be. By the way, my wife is a retired doc, but I didn't meet her until the end of her residency period, and I'm certainly not a doc myself. Anyway, good luck to you and your wife-to-be.
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by stoptothink »

imgritz wrote:Here's a little advice from a guy that was madly in love with some assets, got married and divorced X years later. I would protect yourself financially.
I'll second this. Went through the same situation, except I put my wife through dental school and we divorced during her final quarter. I liquidated a significant amount of my assets to pay for her education out of pocket and then went through a horrible battle for what was left of the assets I had earned prior to even meeting her. You aren't married yet. I know it isn't romantic, but you need to protect yourself.
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wholeinone04
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by wholeinone04 »

imgritz wrote:Here's a little advice from a guy that was madly in love with some assets, got married and divorced X years later. I would protect yourself financially.

I would keep all pre-marital assets in your name only before and during the marriage. I would rent the condo because San Diego property is in an up-swing at the moment. If things work out, you have a rental property. I have a rental in San Diego and it is always rented with very low turn-over. If things don't work out, you always have a home to go back to.

Best of luck on your new adventure.
Hmm this is good advice, I've been thinking a lot about it lately too. I have worked my arse off for the past four years to save, invest, etc. By the time we get married, I will have a net worth somewhere in the 300-350k range, she will have a net worth of about 10k. If I sold the property, I would be very tempted to pay off those loans at 6.8%. IF they were my loans, this would be a no brainer but since they are hers I am hesitating.

This might be a question for another topic but while I have so many eyes on this one, how should I go about protecting my assets? I'm not even sure what the laws are really but I would assume/hope that whatever I enter the marriage with is mine whether we split up or not later( or do you need a pre-nup for this to be true)?
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wholeinone04
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by wholeinone04 »

stoptothink wrote:
imgritz wrote:Here's a little advice from a guy that was madly in love with some assets, got married and divorced X years later. I would protect yourself financially.
I'll second this. Went through the same situation, except I put my wife through dental school and we divorced during her final quarter. I liquidated a significant amount of my assets to pay for her education out of pocket and then went through a horrible battle for what was left of the assets I had earned prior to even meeting her. You aren't married yet. I know it isn't romantic, but you need to protect yourself.
Thanks for the reply, can you tell me more since I am a little bit worried about this? Not worried, but I am an engineer and business man first, lover second. I look at the facts and see that 50%+ of marriages end in divorce and I'm sure everyone feels the same way I do right now. Should we keep our assets separate until she's out of school or once we're married. We'll be getting married after her first year of school.
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dm200
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by dm200 »

rallycobra wrote:Sell the condo and marry her before school starts. 4 out of 50 women in my class were engaged when they entered med school. All left their fiancées for classmates before graduation!
Why do you think "marriage" will significantly lower the probability of leaving the OP and going with someone else?
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William4u
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by William4u »

1. Sell the condo. No question.
2. I would encourage her to take out the loans, especially if any of them are like the federally subsidized college loans people get (if that is even possible).

Docs have a high rate of divorce/break up in the early stages of their career. I know too many of these people. Five years after residency is the perfect time for a doc to get married, after the stress and emotion of med school, internship, residency, fellowship, etc.

However, your fiancee might be an outlier. But you won't know this until you spend a few decades with her and find out what her character really is after it has been tested. It takes about 20 years of living with someone to know what they are truly like under the stresses of real life.
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frugaltype
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by frugaltype »

What happens with your job when you move?
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wholeinone04
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by wholeinone04 »

William4u wrote:1. Sell the condo. No question.
2. I would encourage her to take out the loans, especially if any of them are like the federally subsidized college loans people get (if that is even possible).

Docs have a high rate of divorce/break up in the early stages of their career. I know too many of these people. Five years after residency is the perfect time for a doc to get married, after the stress and emotion of med school, internship, residency, fellowship, etc.

However, your fiancee might be an outlier. But you won't know this until you spend a few decades with her and find out what her character really is after it has been tested. It takes about 20 years of living with someone to know what they are truly like under the stresses of real life.
Thanks for the advice. I see the majority is definitely in favor of selling my condo but I really haven't seen many good reasons as to why. Everyone just says to sell.. I never do things b/c people tell me to do them haha, I try to do things based off reason/empirical evidence so I'm really not convinced yet.

Seems like the general consensus is to keep my money separate so if I were to sell what the hell would I do with all that money? I'd have about 100k from the sale of my condo plus 50-75k in cash/short term investments. There's not really a suitable investment for that money for the time period I need(4-7 years) other than real estate. And I already own real estate? So what do you guys recommend I do? I don't think a good solution is to let 100k+ sit there for 4-7 years earning 1% interest. I'm 26 btw, isn't now the time to take on additional risk?
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Clearly_Irrational
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Clearly_Irrational »

wholeinone04 wrote:Thanks for the advice. I see the majority is definitely in favor of selling my condo but I really haven't seen many good reasons as to why.
Condos make bad rentals would be my #1 reason.
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by ossipago »

wholeinone04 wrote: Thanks for the advice. I see the majority is definitely in favor of selling my condo but I really haven't seen many good reasons as to why. Everyone just says to sell.. I never do things b/c people tell me to do them haha, I try to do things based off reason/empirical evidence so I'm really not convinced yet.

Seems like the general consensus is to keep my money separate so if I were to sell what the hell would I do with all that money? I'd have about 100k from the sale of my condo plus 50-75k in cash/short term investments. There's not really a suitable investment for that money for the time period I need(4-7 years) other than real estate. And I already own real estate? So what do you guys recommend I do? I don't think a good solution is to let 100k+ sit there for 4-7 years earning 1% interest. I'm 26 btw, isn't now the time to take on additional risk?
Many people don't consider real estate an investment (rather, a consumption item); of those who do see it as an investment, many see it as a long-term investment only due to the transaction costs at both ends. Unless you really think you'll need your cash in 4-7 years, you should consider parking some of it in tax-efficient mutual funds and using them as additional retirement savings.
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by adam1712 »

My biggest recommendation is to keep all of these decisions as separate as possible and make them one at a time.

First is do you want to be a landlord. I personally have no desire and generally think it's risky and hard to do as an individual as a side job. I'd leave it to the professionals or you need to be willing to devote the time to consider it a second job. If you don't want to be a landlord, then sell the condo. If you do, then consider whether this condo is the best property to start with, will it be a pain not having your rental property closer to where you live, etc.

Second, if you do decide to sell your condo, what will you do with the money. I'm in a similar situation to you as I sold a condo last year to move to a new location for likely 3 years and am renting. I may be buying a place in 3 years, maybe not, but being in the accumulation phase, I see no reason to set aside a large chunk of money right now. I simply invested my money according to my asset allocation and I did shift from 90/10 stocks to 80/20. In a couple years, if I need a down payment, I'll cut back on retirement savings some for a year or two. Or if stocks have done well, I may consider selling some. I can't predict the market but I don't think it makes sense to have the money just sitting around. I think if I take this strategy, on average it will work out.

Third, with regard to your fiancee, I'd recommend trying to keep things separate for now and don't let it factor into your decisions. I do want to say congrats though since I think this board is too pessimistic about marriage sometimes. Be realistic but you also shouldn't let this board scare you too much. :beer
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by dm200 »

Clearly_Irrational wrote:
wholeinone04 wrote:Thanks for the advice. I see the majority is definitely in favor of selling my condo but I really haven't seen many good reasons as to why.
Condos make bad rentals would be my #1 reason.
Before deciding on keeping the condo and renting it out (if that turns out to be your preference), check to make sure that the condo rules/bylaws.etc. do not have restrictions about non-owners (rentals). Many condos have restrictions on owners renting out the condo, or have caps/limits on what number or percentage can be rented. The idea is that, if the complex becomes dominated by renters, the quality of living there and the values might go down (for a number of possible reasons). Be aware also, that even if there are not such limits/restrictions now, they could be imposed in the future.
Kelly Brackett
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Kelly Brackett »

imgritz wrote:Here's a little advice from a guy that was madly in love with some assets, got married...
Or did you mean "Here's a little advice from a guy that was madly in love, had some assets, got married...?"

The use of a comma is pretty important here. Or maybe I misunderstood your relationship with your assets.

Edit: I went to med school, saw relationships evolve and devolve. Frankly, I couldn't begin to construct a useful narrative from those observations.
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by bmelikia »

jghassell wrote:Just to echo some of the sentiments here: be very careful using your money to pay for her education, especially if you aren't yet married. Things look a lot different before school than after and that's not really money you'll ever recover if things go south. It's not a romantic thought, but then again life is sometimes very unromantic.
Do NOT pay for her education until she is your wife. . .
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | A time to EVALUATE your jitters https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
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HomerJ
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by HomerJ »

wholeinone04 wrote:I look at the facts and see that 50%+ of marriages end in divorce
That statistic has a lot of caveats.

Highly educated people who get married in their late 20s have a much lower divorce rate than that.

People with a high school education and who marry young get divorced at a very high rate.
People with a college degree and who marry young also get divorced at a high rate (although less than the HS grads)
People with a high school education who marry late have a much lower divorce rate than the two above.
People with a college degree who marry late have the lowest divorce rate of all.

And that's you.
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wholeinone04
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by wholeinone04 »

HomerJ wrote:
wholeinone04 wrote:I look at the facts and see that 50%+ of marriages end in divorce
That statistic has a lot of caveats.

Highly educated people who get married in their late 20s have a much lower divorce rate than that.

People with a high school education and who marry young get divorced at a very high rate.
People with a college degree and who marry young also get divorced at a high rate (although less than the HS grads)
People with a high school education who marry late have a much lower divorce rate than the two above.
People with a college degree who marry late have the lowest divorce rate of all.

And that's you.
Haha that's interesting, and also makes a lot of sense. I'm not going to pay for anything until we're married but at some point I have to take the chance and pay off the debt :)
MrMiyagi
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by MrMiyagi »

I would avoid using your money to pay for her education. I had a few classmates (females) who dated a guy throughout medical school, who supported them financially and emotionally....then they dumped the boyfriend/fiance near the end of medical school. Yup, a few plural.

The male classmates were content to being scumbag steves and going through lots of girls, but they didn't string people along at least. To be honest, you may even find out she becomes unbearable during medical school and/or residency and want out yourself. Sorry to be a pessimist.
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Laura »

wholeinone,

You said "I have worked my arse off for the past four years to save, invest, etc. By the time we get married, I will have a net worth somewhere in the 300-350k range, she will have a net worth of about 10k.". Actually, she would probably have a negative net worth since she will be borrowing so much money over the next few years. I could be wrong if she actually has significant assets right now and you are netting out the loan balances.

Laura
The views presented are my own and not necessarily those of the Department of State or the U.S. Government.
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archbish99
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by archbish99 »

Loan her the money at a reasonable interest rate. Draw up a prenup that specifies what happens if you break up, defining that your pre-existing assets and the interest on that loan are your separate property, and any schooling each of you pursues while married is your separate debt. Also make sure it specifies what happens if you don't jointly have sufficient assets to pay out your separate property -- probably a loan agreement.

If everything works out, which is certainly everyone's hope, then the loan is paid from your joint money into your joint money, and the loan is a no-op.
I'm not a financial advisor, I just play one on the Internet.
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Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by Valuethinker »

wholeinone04 wrote:I've been going back and forth the past couple months and every day I change my mind so I thought I'd ask for some advice. Maybe someone has been in a similar situation before.

Here's some personal info if it helps:
26 yo male
160k in retirement accounts
65k in cash(short-term investments)

Option 1: Sell the Condo

I bought a condo in San Diego in April of 2010 for 280k, been living there for 3 years. My fiancee just got into med school in Irvine(about 1 hour away) and we're going to be moving up there at the end of July. My condo is somewhat upgraded(granite counters, new tile floors, ss appliances, etc) and if I were to list it, it would probably sell in the 330-350k range. 1 unit just sold for 325k and was original everything and another one not quite as nice as mine but very close sold for 340k.

I owe 215k on the property, so minus 5k closing costs/repairs and 5% realtor fees a 330k sale would net me 93.5k in cash(28.5k profit in 3 years). So obviously a great return on my money.

Option 2: Rent out the condo

I have done a couple test listings on craigslist and I've also kept my eye on the rental market and I should be able to rent out my property for $1700-$2000 a month. I think the $1700 number is a bit conservative but I'm going to assume that for now, $1800 would probably be more realistic though.

My total expenses on the property(mortgage, prop. tax, insurance and hoa) are $1615 a month. I am putting $370 into principal each month and I have a tax savings of about $100 a month(I calculate this by adding up yearly interest and prop tax payments minus the standard deduction - $6100).

I've seen all sorts of numbers about what to assume for vacancies, expenses, etc but I am fairly sure the condo will rent out fast and not much is going to break.

Rent or Sell?

Obviously if I sold I would make a great profit but I'm also worried about what to do with that money. I want to buy more property but I probably won't be able to do it for four years(or more maybe 6-7, after residency is done) until we know where we're going to end up. So there aren't any good options to invest that money in for a 4-7 year period right now, so I feel like it would be a waste of 100k just sitting there earning 1% :(

We haven't got the student aid package but I'm assuming my fiancee will get loans to cover most of tuition and they won't need to be repaid for four years(is that how these things work, that's how my college loans worked). I should be able to cover most of our living expenses for us during that time without dipping into savings.

I am leaning towards renting out the place for two reasons. I want to eventually get into buying multi-family units and things of that nature so I feel like this would be a good test run. The second/third reason is I wouldn't know what to do with that 100k if I sold and I think the housing market is going to keep going up. So why sell something that will probably keep going up or at worst stay the same. FYI, my unit was one of the lowest sales price in the recent history of the complex(a few short sales in there for 250, 225, 250 in the past couple years).

Don't blend your personal finances until you are married. Don't pay for her medical school unless you know you can get the money back if you break up.

In this situation I probably would not sell, I would rent it out. Or I would buy in Irvine. Housing prices in S. CA still appear to be going up. Economy recovering, supply short.
mnvalue
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by mnvalue »

archbish99 wrote:Draw up a prenup
From what I understand, if you go this route, you need lawyers. Yes, plural. You each need a separate one.
traumadoc77
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:17 pm

Re: Fiancee Got Into Med School: Should I Rent or Sell My Co

Post by traumadoc77 »

Its not all doom and gloom... My I'm still with my spouse who put up with me during med school/residency. Though I do have partners on wife 4 and 6 lol... so
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