Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Post Reply
Topic Author
jtundra
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:25 am

Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by jtundra »

A good friend of us is graduating from a pharmacy school this year. He started job searching Dec. last year and has been through a few phone/face-to-face interviews. However, most of them just went silent after the interviews. He told us one hiring manager in January initially offered him a job verbally but pending on background check. Now he is worried, because he has a record of being arrested for something like "fugative of justice" of six years ago. I suspect there is more to it, but I am positive that he was not convicted for anything.

Could anyone share your thoughts on this? Has anyone been offered a healthcare job (doctors, pharmacists, etc) with a record of being arrested? What actions can this friend take? As far as his carreer goes, is he doomed?
HouseStark
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:31 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by HouseStark »

If an employer can be authorized to do a background check, then an individual must be able to do the same background check on themself by using one of those companies providing such a service. As a starting point, I think your friend would want to know exactly what information potential employers would see as a result of such a background check. Also, doesn't working as a pharmacist require some sort of federal narcotics license because of access to controlled substances?

I don't have any background in pharmacy to know anything more about the implications of a possible police record, but doing his own background check would seem to be a place to start.
awval999
Posts: 1318
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:17 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by awval999 »

Disclaimer: Is a pharmacist

The job market right now is "meh" for pharmacists. Especially in desirable locations. The problem may be is that no employer is going to risk it when there are other candidates with no criminal record and I'm sure they have multiple other applicants. Is the crimnal record a felony? If so, he may not receive a pharmacist license from the state without jumping through extensive hoops.

Recommendation:
Apply for less desirable locations, for example--- rural Texas, rural New Mexico, etc.
Furthermore I would look to get the record expunged.

Edit: If he wasn't convicted he doesn't have a criminal record, right? Something is a miss here I believe. No one is held damaged just for being arrested--- you must be convicted or plead guilty to have a record.

Second Edit: An arrest may show up--- but if you are found factually innocent you can apply for expungement it looks like.
Rupert
Posts: 4122
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Rupert »

Criminal defense lawyer here: You cannot expunge an arrest in every jurisdiction. The laws governing expungement vary from state to state. So the fact that he was arrested may always appear in certain databases, such as the NCIC database used by law enforcement agencies like the DEA. Also, you can't be classified a fugitive from justice unless you've skipped out on some other charges. He probably failed to appear in court for some reason or another and a warrant was issued for his arrest. Next time he was stopped by law enforcement for speeding, etc., he was arrested on the outstanding warrant. There could be, and very likely is, much more to your friend's story than he is telling you. For example, what were the underlying charges he skipped out on? There is no better resource for him to utilize in clearing this up than the administrative office at his pharmacy school. Part of what administrators in professional schools do is make sure their graduates are employable after graduation. He should start there and then consider hiring an attorney to straighten this out.
Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 11589
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Alex Frakt »

I agree with Rupert. My wife, in her immigration practice, deals all the time with people who have convinced themselves that an arrest doesn't matter or won't be found out. They do matter and in the post-9/11 world it is highly likely they will be uncovered, even if the arrest occurred in another jurisdiction or another country. FWIW, in immigration, arrests without convictions are not normally disqualifying by themselves, but failure to disclose an arrest when asked (and it always is) will nearly always have negative consequences. Also immigration law does not recognize generally expungements,

Given what has happened so far, IMO your friend needs to be proactive about this. He should see a criminal defense attorney to find out if expungement of the arrest record is possible or, if convicted of something, if some form of post-conviction relief is practical. IMO and again based on what he has experienced so far, unless he can get an expungement, he should be disclosing the arrest and providing documentary evidence of the disposition of the matter at his interviews, or at least at some time before they do a background check.
User avatar
gravlax
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: Cole Valley, CA

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by gravlax »

jtundra wrote:A good friend of us is graduating from a pharmacy school this year. He started job searching Dec. last year and has been through a few phone/face-to-face interviews. However, most of them just went silent after the interviews. He told us one hiring manager in January initially offered him a job verbally but pending on background check. Now he is worried, because he has a record of being arrested for something like "fugative of justice" of six years ago. I suspect there is more to it, but I am positive that he was not convicted for anything.

Could anyone share your thoughts on this? Has anyone been offered a healthcare job (doctors, pharmacists, etc) with a record of being arrested? What actions can this friend take? As far as his carreer goes, is he doomed?
I am a convicted felon myself, so can offer a bit of an answer.

First of all, to be arrested as a "fugitive of justice" implies that he had an obligation due to a prior conviction that was being violated. In other words, he was out of state when he should not have been, skipped a meeting with a probation officer, or failed to pay some restitution. I don't think you can just get arrested as a fugitive of justice out of thin air.

As far as the background check, anytime an employer requests a background check, the potential employee will have to sign an authorization for the background check to be conducted. On the authorization form it is required by law to have a checkbox specifying that the potential employee wants to be sent a copy of the background report. I would advise everyone, even those without a criminal record, to check that box. The results of your own background check can be very interesting!
Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 11589
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Alex Frakt »

gravlax wrote:On the authorization form it is required by law to have a checkbox specifying that the potential employee wants to be sent a copy of the background report. I would advise everyone, even those without a criminal record, to check that box. The results of your own background check can be very interesting!
People can also request a copy of their own FBI Identification Record for $18. The instruction are here: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/backgr ... to-the-fbi . This is a record of every time you have been fingerprinted by a law enforcement agency and certain other federal agencies, including all arrests.
Winthorpe
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:29 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Winthorpe »

I'm a pharmacist.

Throughout most of the country, the job market for pharmacists is pathetic right now. In my area, it's saturated. This will make all the more difficult for your friend.

Like another above, I would suggest going rural, to an underserved area. I would also suggest this person focus on small, independent outfits. The bigs will definitely be doing background checks. The small maybe not so much.
MoneyBagsRx
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:12 am
Location: New York

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by MoneyBagsRx »

Two things to consider:

1. Depending on state laws, a 'felon' may not be licensed/registered as a pharmacist. Here in good 'ol NY, one must "be of good moral character." Basically implying you cannot have a criminal record. So, if he's already licensed to practice, he may technically be in the clear.

2. I agree with awval999. The market stinks for pharmacists. The market is saturated anywhere within 100 miles of a pharmacy school. He may have to look out in the boonies to land a job. I'm sure employers are not pleased with the idea of an applicant having a criminal record. When you are involved with controlled substances on a daily basis, the idea that your employee is a 'criminal' does not sit well with most. Diversion is too common.
azanon
Posts: 3142
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:34 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by azanon »

I'm surprised to hear a couple of you saying that the pharmacist job market isn't that great. My dad (a pharmacist) always said that they dang near fight over you after you graduate. He always needed more pharmacists (he owned several pharmacies). Granted he works in rural Arkansas.
awval999
Posts: 1318
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:17 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by awval999 »

azanon wrote:I'm surprised to hear a couple of you saying that the pharmacist job market isn't that great. My dad (a pharmacist) always said that they dang near fight over you after you graduate. He always needed more pharmacists (he owned several pharmacies). Granted he works in rural Arkansas.
Lots of for-profit pharmacy schools opening up. I believe it went from 80 schools in 2000 to 125+ now. Real estate slow down stopped WAG, RAD and CVS from expanding. City centers are saturated. Opportunities abound where 20 somethings refuse to relocate though--- for example in rural TX, NM, AZ, etc.
Last edited by awval999 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yipee-Ki-O
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:42 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Yipee-Ki-O »

azanon wrote:I'm surprised to hear a couple of you saying that the pharmacist job market isn't that great. My dad (a pharmacist) always said that they dang near fight over you after you graduate. He always needed more pharmacists (he owned several pharmacies). Granted he works in rural Arkansas.
"Works in rural Arkansas" is the key. There are still jobs available in the boondocks. I friend recently retired from a chain store job in Alaska and he says even there the RPh job market is saturated. His replacement came onboard for $12 an hour less than what he'd been making. And a friend who owns several stores in rural Missouri said he hasn't had to offer raises to pharmacists for quite some time now due to the glut of pharmacists.
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 54082
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by retiredjg »

gravlax wrote:First of all, to be arrested as a "fugitive of justice" implies that he had an obligation due to a prior conviction that was being violated.
While this is true, I don't think that is the only possibility. It may simply be an arrest as the result of a "failure to appear" warrant - it does not have to involve a conviction. It could be as simple as a traffic ticket that wasn't paid followed by not showing up in court. Or it could be as serious as fleeing a jurisdiction after being charged with (but not convicted of) a felony. Or it could be just what you said - didn't jump through all the hoops after a conviction. We don't really know.

What I find hard to believe is this person made it all the way through pharmacy school without knowing that a clean record could be critical at some later date.

I agree with a previous poster that your friend should be pro-active on this. If this is a situation that can be explained, it probably should be explained ahead of time. If it can't be explained, I'd be looking for a different kind of job. Maybe pharmaceutical sales or something along that line.

If the job market is all that saturated, it is possible that failing to get hired has nothing to do with the arrest record. Don't lose sight of that.
Harold
Posts: 3154
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:50 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Harold »

azanon wrote:I'm surprised to hear a couple of you saying that the pharmacist job market isn't that great. My dad (a pharmacist) always said that they dang near fight over you after you graduate. He always needed more pharmacists (he owned several pharmacies). Granted he works in rural Arkansas.
I had just assumed the job picture for pharmacists was an illustration of pure economics. Several years ago the shortage of, and commensurate high pay for, pharmacists became widely recognized (can't help noticing that your observation is in the past tense). So more people trained to become pharmacists. Apparently now, supply of pharmacists exceeds the demand, so the job market isn't great. From economic principles the entire arc makes perfect sense.

I don't know much of anything about pharmacists in particular though (which means I probably have no business commenting).

On a possibly more humorous note, I initially read the thread title as someone looking for pharmacist jobs that required a criminal background. Couldn't help wondering what subspecialty that might be, for drug trafficking? professional athletes?
stan1
Posts: 14246
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by stan1 »

I recall several posts over the years on here from 25 year olds who make $150K per year. Seems like pharmacist and professional poker were 2 common occupations for folks in that situation.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
awval999
Posts: 1318
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:17 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by awval999 »

Harold wrote:
azanon wrote:I'm surprised to hear a couple of you saying that the pharmacist job market isn't that great. My dad (a pharmacist) always said that they dang near fight over you after you graduate. He always needed more pharmacists (he owned several pharmacies). Granted he works in rural Arkansas.
I had just assumed the job picture for pharmacists was an illustration of pure economics. Several years ago the shortage of, and commensurate high pay for, pharmacists became widely recognized (can't help noticing that your observation is in the past tense). So more people trained to become pharmacists. Apparently now, supply of pharmacists exceeds the demand, so the job market isn't great. From economic principles the entire arc makes perfect sense.
You're pretty much spot on.
azanon
Posts: 3142
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:34 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by azanon »

Past tense yeah, but that could have been the day before given that he is my dad! I do talk to him frequently, and I trust that doesn't surprise anyone! I'll definitely ask him about this the next time since I have a niece that he's steering in that direction because of the great pay and flexibility in hours that is (was??) often available for women. Perhaps it is as I said and as confirmed by someone else, which is still a great market provided you're in the right areas such as where I live.
Topic Author
jtundra
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:25 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by jtundra »

OP here.

First, thank you all for your help!

I shared your replies with the friend. He explained some more details about the "fugitive of justice". He did run into problems with law more than 10 years ago involving property damage in one incident but with two states. Both states had warrants issued on him. He surrendered to one state and had a deferred judgment. The other state agreed to drop charges. Since no arrest was made, the warrant from that state became outstanding. My friend did not know about it until years later he was applying for a permit. The outstanding warrant came up during the background check and he got arrested for being a “fugitive of justice” and released in a couple of days after paying $700 to the county of the second state where the warrant was originally issued. He did have the record of “deferred judgment” expunged through his lawyer 10 years ago. According to him, there is nothing he can do to “hide” the record of being arrested for fugitive of justice.

He agrees that a rural area and/or an independent pharmacy may give him a better chance to find a job.

Please continue sharing your thoughts, comments, suggestions… He needs a job to pay probably over $100,000 student loan.
Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 11589
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Alex Frakt »

jtundra wrote:Please continue sharing your thoughts, comments, suggestions… He needs a job to pay probably over $100,000 student loan.
I think he should send a resume to azanon's dad.
User avatar
momar
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:51 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by momar »

Harold wrote:
azanon wrote:I'm surprised to hear a couple of you saying that the pharmacist job market isn't that great. My dad (a pharmacist) always said that they dang near fight over you after you graduate. He always needed more pharmacists (he owned several pharmacies). Granted he works in rural Arkansas.
I had just assumed the job picture for pharmacists was an illustration of pure economics. Several years ago the shortage of, and commensurate high pay for, pharmacists became widely recognized (can't help noticing that your observation is in the past tense). So more people trained to become pharmacists. Apparently now, supply of pharmacists exceeds the demand, so the job market isn't great. From economic principles the entire arc makes perfect sense.
This is happening with nursing, too.

It seems that everyone encouraging every kid they see to study for and earn a degree in a specific field ends up saturating the field and the kids who thought they were doing what they were supposed to are left holding the bag.

Also see: law school and science, too.
"Index funds have a place in your portfolio, but you'll never beat the index with them." - Words of wisdom from a Fidelity rep
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28859
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Watty »

Please continue sharing your thoughts, comments, suggestions… .

A few;

1) Have different lawyer look at it to see what can be done.

2) Have him see if anyone at his school that might have come contacts that would help him find a job.

3) Check out state and federal jobs, including the military, to see if they might look at the details closer.
User avatar
dm200
Posts: 23214
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: Washington DC area

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by dm200 »

I am not a Human Resources person, but I just viewed a "compliance" webinar that included a great deal of Human Resources information. One part stressed the importance of not excluding those with backgrounds of being convicted, unless it could be demonstrated that this was relevant to the specific job/position. The example given was that, for a position of a bank teller (handling money), a previous record of some sort of financial irregularity would be relevant, but for a position of front desk receptionist, it might not be.
mickens16
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:52 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by mickens16 »

jtundra wrote:OP here.

First, thank you all for your help!

I shared your replies with the friend. He explained some more details about the "fugitive of justice". He did run into problems with law more than 10 years ago involving property damage in one incident but with two states. Both states had warrants issued on him. He surrendered to one state and had a deferred judgment. The other state agreed to drop charges. Since no arrest was made, the warrant from that state became outstanding. My friend did not know about it until years later he was applying for a permit. The outstanding warrant came up during the background check and he got arrested for being a “fugitive of justice” and released in a couple of days after paying $700 to the county of the second state where the warrant was originally issued. He did have the record of “deferred judgment” expunged through his lawyer 10 years ago. According to him, there is nothing he can do to “hide” the record of being arrested for fugitive of justice.

He agrees that a rural area and/or an independent pharmacy may give him a better chance to find a job.

Please continue sharing your thoughts, comments, suggestions… He needs a job to pay probably over $100,000 student loan.
Just to be clear, the term is Fugitive from Justice. If your friend had a deferred judgement, what was the judgement? To pay a fine, community service? Most states (jurisdictions) wouldn't issue a warrant for misdemeanor charges as it wouldn't make sense for them using resources to pick up the fugitive, unless the states were really close, i.e. Maryland and Virginia. More than likely, that property damage charge (misdemeanor) and the fugitive from justice charge will both be on the FBI record. Like you said, the fugitive charge isn't going anywhere. I would definitely try and get a copy of the FBI record. I don't really have any other suggestions regarding job searches that require background checks. Good luck to your friend.
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 54082
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by retiredjg »

jtundra wrote: According to him, there is nothing he can do to “hide” the record of being arrested for fugitive of justice.
If the charges were dropped in the second state, the warrant should have been withdrawn by the judge who issued it. So it appears he was picked up on a warrant that should not have even been in the system. Court clerk error? I would think that could be fixed. I'd try again.
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28859
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by Watty »

retiredjg wrote:
jtundra wrote: According to him, there is nothing he can do to “hide” the record of being arrested for fugitive of justice.
If the charges were dropped in the second state, the warrant should have been withdrawn by the judge who issued it. So it appears he was picked up on a warrant that should not have even been in the system. Court clerk error? I would think that could be fixed. I'd try again.
I suspect that the OP is still not getting the full story.
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 54082
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by retiredjg »

Watty wrote:I suspect that the OP is still not getting the full story.
Entirely possible.

But warrants sometimes do get left in the system when they have either been served or withdrawn. Unfortunate, but it does happen.
fsrph
Posts: 1610
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:54 pm
Location: Pa.

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by fsrph »

awval999 wrote:
azanon wrote:I'm surprised to hear a couple of you saying that the pharmacist job market isn't that great. My dad (a pharmacist) always said that they dang near fight over you after you graduate. He always needed more pharmacists (he owned several pharmacies). Granted he works in rural Arkansas.
Lots of for-profit pharmacy schools opening up. I believe it went from 80 schools in 2000 to 125+ now. Real estate slow down stopped WAG, RAD and CVS from expanding. City centers are saturated. Opportunities abound where 20 somethings refuse to relocate though--- for example in rural TX, NM, AZ, etc.
That's 100% correct. In my area (Pa) there were always many opportunities for a pharmacist. Then a new Rx school opened very close to here .... and since then supply of pharmacists greatly exceeds demand. I know several recent graduates who accepted a position with a big box chain and had to relocate at least 60 miles.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie
User avatar
HardKnocker
Posts: 2063
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:55 am
Location: New Jersey USA

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by HardKnocker »

Pharmacy would be the last place you'd want someone with a criminal record.

Wall Street however is perfectly fine with crooks running it.
Last edited by HardKnocker on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
ShortInSeattle
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:18 pm

Re: Looking for pharmacist jobs with a criminal background

Post by ShortInSeattle »

dm200 wrote:I am not a Human Resources person, but I just viewed a "compliance" webinar that included a great deal of Human Resources information. One part stressed the importance of not excluding those with backgrounds of being convicted, unless it could be demonstrated that this was relevant to the specific job/position. The example given was that, for a position of a bank teller (handling money), a previous record of some sort of financial irregularity would be relevant, but for a position of front desk receptionist, it might not be.
Yes, I was in HR and thus is how we were trained. Also, we never looked for or considered arrest records. An arrest doesn't mean guilt.

My hunch is that it's not the criminal history that is causing trouble. More likely competition and his interview skills.

SIS
Post Reply