What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.

What is your net worth, excluding your primary residence and vehicles?

1. Under $25000
24
4%
2. $25000-50000
13
2%
3. $50000-100000
25
4%
4. $100K-250K
63
11%
5. $250K-500K
60
10%
6. $500K-750K
54
9%
7. $750K-1000K
44
8%
8. $1000K-1250K
41
7%
9. $1250K-1500K
42
7%
10.$1500K-1750K
21
4%
11.$1750K-2000K
21
4%
12.$2000K-2500K
26
5%
13.$2500K-3000K
34
6%
14.$3000K-4000K
28
5%
15.$4000K-5000K
25
4%
16.$5000K-7500K
22
4%
17.$7500K-10000K
3
1%
18.$10000K-25000K
10
2%
19.$25000K-50000K
4
1%
20. >$50000K
17
3%
 
Total votes: 577

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Swampy
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What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Swampy »

Just curious to see what the net worth of Bogleheads is.

Anonymous answers above only please to protect your identity.
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sscritic
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by sscritic »

My net worth includes my house. I didn't have one, and I had a certain net worth. I then sold some bonds and bought my house. My net worth did not go down. Why do you think your home equity is not part of your net worth?

I know mine is. When I die, my children will be able to spend what they get from the sale of my house just as easily as what they will get from the sale of my shares in Total Stock Market. The sale might take more time, but the value of the dollars from the house will be no less than the value of the dollars from TSM.
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Blue
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Blue »

Kudos on the >$50 million respondent!

:sharebeer
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by sscritic »

Where are the negative numbers? Why would you lump someone with $150,000 in student loan debt with someone with $20,000 saved up?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by snowman »

sscritic wrote:Where are the negative numbers? Why would you lump someone with $150,000 in student loan debt with someone with $20,000 saved up?
+1
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Call_Me_Op »

Is this household net worth or per capita net worth?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by chaz »

Amazing to see the wide range of BH worth.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by pennstater2005 »

Mine is negative. :(
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Stonebr »

sscritic wrote:My net worth includes my house. I didn't have one, and I had a certain net worth. I then sold some bonds and bought my house. My net worth did not go down. Why do you think your home equity is not part of your net worth?

I know mine is. When I die, my children will be able to spend what they get from the sale of my house just as easily as what they will get from the sale of my shares in Total Stock Market. The sale might take more time, but the value of the dollars from the house will be no less than the value of the dollars from TSM.
I usually exclude it from mine for setting my AA because:

1) I don't get a reliable daily price quote from Mr. Market.
2) I view it as a financial equivalent to renting and I have to live somewhere.
3) There are other assets that I own like art, coins, antiques, and yard sale stuff that I can't quantify.
4) Have to draw the line somewhere.
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The Wizard
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by The Wizard »

Net Worth includes everything; don't try to redefine standard terms.
Beware: some Bogleheads will respond with family net worth, not normalized to an individual...
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Mudpuppy »

Stonebr wrote:
sscritic wrote:My net worth includes my house. I didn't have one, and I had a certain net worth. I then sold some bonds and bought my house. My net worth did not go down. Why do you think your home equity is not part of your net worth?

I know mine is. When I die, my children will be able to spend what they get from the sale of my house just as easily as what they will get from the sale of my shares in Total Stock Market. The sale might take more time, but the value of the dollars from the house will be no less than the value of the dollars from TSM.
I usually exclude it from mine for setting my AA because:

1) I don't get a reliable daily price quote from Mr. Market.
2) I view it as a financial equivalent to renting and I have to live somewhere.
3) There are other assets that I own like art, coins, antiques, and yard sale stuff that I can't quantify.
4) Have to draw the line somewhere.
Excluding it from your asset allocation and excluding it from your net worth are two separate things. If I excluded my underwater home from my net worth, I could give myself the delusion of having a positive net worth, when the reality is that I'm sitting at 165% LTV ratio and that's put me slightly in the negative. Also, the mortgage debt and home value would come into play as part of one's estate after passing, and therefore are part of one's net worth.

But I do exclude the home from my asset allocation for the retirement accounts because I see it as a place to live now, not a retirement asset. Likewise, I exclude the money in the emergency fund from my AA because it's for emergencies now. My AA is chosen based on my horizon to retirement and my risk tolerances, not based on my present needs (although certainly my present needs influence the amount that gets saved towards retirement).
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Alex Frakt »

We have at least two other polls on this topic:
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69175
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=840

FWIW, I suspect the formatting of the options will result in quite a few entry errors.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by tetractys »

Did you know you can change your answer? I just noticed that after one of those formatting induced errors Alex just mentioned. -- Tet
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by BigFoot48 »

You might want to check the Net Worth Survey which currently has 674 responses: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=88801
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by plats »

I’m with sscritic on including your home in net worth. I rent and I definitely don’t compare my net worth equally to home owners. As a matter of fact, I discount my net worth even more for having almost nothing besides liquid assets—no social security, pension, life insurance, annuity…hair (a little on the sides), among others.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by awval999 »

Calling all negative net worthers!!!! We should start a club!
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by SVT »

I don't really see a problem with having multiple net worth polls from time to time since net worth changes over time anyway. Unless you can go back and change your answer I guess.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by SVT »

Half of the voters are millionaires?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by NAVigator »

Blue wrote:Kudos on the >$50 million respondent!

:sharebeer
Now there are five fortunate people with more than $50 Million in net worth. Perhaps there is another explanation.

Jerry
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sscritic
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by sscritic »

NAVigator wrote: Now there are five fortunate people with more than $50 Million in net worth. Perhaps there is another explanation.
A lack of commas?
Problems with counting Ks?
Lost track of the zeros?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by travellight »

maybe they read it as 50k?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by ks289 »

Way too many categories too
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by NAVigator »

We should have gone on the metric system a long time ago!

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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Steelersfan »

sscritic wrote:
NAVigator wrote: Now there are five fortunate people with more than $50 Million in net worth. Perhaps there is another explanation.
A lack of commas?
Problems with counting Ks?
Lost track of the zeros?
It's consistent with previous polls of this type, if you check our Alex Frakt's response.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by RenoJay »

I have a hunch some people are misreading the choices, such as $50000k as being $50,000. If I'm wrong, I'd like to ask these folks to adopt me.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by chaz »

RenoJay wrote:I have a hunch some people are misreading the choices, such as $50000k as being $50,000. If I'm wrong, I'd like to ask these folks to adopt me.
Or dishonest replies.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by SVT »

What would be the point of a dishonest reply? It's anonymous.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Sheepdog »

Alex,
Looking at the survey in 2007, it was nice to see that I moved up a notch.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by travellight »

Just to be thorough, I also thought of dishonest replies out of sheer mischief. That is why there is some value to these polls periodically because I would think the spectrum would be consistent.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by travellight »

looks like right now, about 52% of Bogleheads are millionaires. Gives a new perspective to the bottom "47%", a different 47% for this group.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by crowd79 »

I think the consensus is the average "Boglehead" is far better off net-worth-wise vs. the average person for their age group and income level.

I don't make a ton of money but my net worth is quite high relative to others in my income group and age. I've been extremely diligent in saving money over the years, having zero debts, and making every penny count.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by LFKB »

The formatting of the answers is not very easy to understand. I understand it, but the OP should have listed $1 million instead of $1000k. This is likely leading to some incorrect responses.

Also, home equity needs to be part of the equation. If I save up $2 million and buy a $1 million house with all cash is my net worth now cut in half?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Aptenodytes »

Too weird to think about net worth without counting home. Like asking how many teeth do you have (don't count molars).
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by travellight »

I counted my home(s). Net worth, as mentioned above, is ALL assets minus all liabilities. This includes real estate.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by FedGuy »

I think the concern with counting home in net worth is that it's difficult to value, and the value cannot be readily extracted (sure, you could sell your home, but it could take months, you don't know how much you'll get for it, you have to pay taxes and fees to do so, and then where would you live?). When I owned a condo (now sold), I deducted the outstanding value of my mortgage from my net worth but did not add my condo's value, for precisely those reasons. That obviously depressed my self-calculated net worth, but since I was only doing those calculations for my own reference, and since doing it that way allowed me to use clearly visible numbers without engaging in a lot of hypothetical guesswork, that seemed reasonable to me.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Aptenodytes »

FedGuy wrote:I think the concern with counting home in net worth is that it's difficult to value, and the value cannot be readily extracted (sure, you could sell your home, but it could take months, you don't know how much you'll get for it, you have to pay taxes and fees to do so, and then where would you live?). When I owned a condo (now sold), I deducted the outstanding value of my mortgage from my net worth but did not add my condo's value, for precisely those reasons. That obviously depressed my self-calculated net worth, but since I was only doing those calculations for my own reference, and since doing it that way allowed me to use clearly visible numbers without engaging in a lot of hypothetical guesswork, that seemed reasonable to me.
But then you are confusing planning practices with definitions. "Net worth" is a term that has very clear meaning. You don't need to redefine the word in order to plan your personal finances effectively. You can choose to eat healthy food without redefining the word "food."

House value isn't that hard to calculate. I just use Zillow. I know Zillow has errors, but who cares. I'm not pricing an IPO, I'm just getting a birds' eye view of my financial situation.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Abe »

Aptenodytes wrote:
FedGuy wrote:I think the concern with counting home in net worth is that it's difficult to value, and the value cannot be readily extracted (sure, you could sell your home, but it could take months, you don't know how much you'll get for it, you have to pay taxes and fees to do so, and then where would you live?). When I owned a condo (now sold), I deducted the outstanding value of my mortgage from my net worth but did not add my condo's value, for precisely those reasons. That obviously depressed my self-calculated net worth, but since I was only doing those calculations for my own reference, and since doing it that way allowed me to use clearly visible numbers without engaging in a lot of hypothetical guesswork, that seemed reasonable to me.
But then you are confusing planning practices with definitions. "Net worth" is a term that has very clear meaning. You don't need to redefine the word in order to plan your personal finances effectively. You can choose to eat healthy food without redefining the word "food."

House value isn't that hard to calculate. I just use Zillow. I know Zillow has errors, but who cares. I'm not pricing an IPO, I'm just getting a birds' eye view of my financial situation.
I agree with aptenodytes. What if one holds a lot of investment real estate? Would you exclude that from net worth because it is hard to value? I think all assets should be included in net worth. Just my opinion.
Last edited by Abe on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by travellight »

I agree, just use Zillow. Your stocks can vary as well, even if it is more precise. Someone who rents and has 100K in stocks is vastly different than the someone with 1 million dollar home paid off that they have worked 20 years to achieve, also with 100K in stocks.

I zillow all investment real estate as well. It is a rough proxy.
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wshang
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by wshang »

OMG, how many time are we going to do this? Can someone post the last age/corrected google graph?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Electron »

I think net worth implies the value before any future taxes, but the after-tax value is also of interest.

Consider the difference between a large Roth IRA and a large Traditional IRA or 401K of the same dollar amount. A taxable account might only be worth 60-80% of the value of the tax free account. Taxable assets with unrealized capital gains would also be worth less although taxes should be at lower rates.

What about Social Security and Pension or Annuity Payments? I wonder if the value of those assets should somehow be included or appended to net worth.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by EternalOptimist »

I included my home as part of my net worth. Why not, it has tremendous value and I (or my heirs) plan on using the resources when it's sold or through reverse/HELOC. It's no more difficult to value than any other asset. If you don't want homes includes, you may want to ask for peoples' 'investable assets'
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

Net worth means all assets less all liabilities. Not in my not so humble opinion. It is a technical term in finance.

If you want to start a poll about net financial assets, then that technical term is available to you.

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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by trudy »

Blue wrote:Kudos on the >$50 million respondent!

:sharebeer
Yeah, really :-) Why are you here and not sleeping on the beach in Hawaii?
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by trudy »

SVT wrote:Half of the voters are millionaires?
Maybe they're the old ones. By retirement time, you'd better have a million in your pocket unless you plan to die soon,
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by trudy »

Electron wrote:I think net worth implies the value before any future taxes, but the after-tax value is also of interest.

Consider the difference between a large Roth IRA and a large Traditional IRA or 401K of the same dollar amount. A taxable account might only be worth 60-80% of the value of the tax free account. ....
I reduced my net worth for the poll by taking into account the reduction of my Traditional IRAs by projected taxes. Not doing so is counting imaginary money.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Amprdh »

600000
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by OnFire »

My net worth isn't yet in the six figure range ay age 38. My wife's, due to four years at a private catholic university, and four more in dental school is still negative at age 32. Hopefully we will ramp up quickly when the boys are in school and she goes back to 40-50 hours a week. Right now, it's closer to 30 a week.
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by NAVigator »

This thread gets funnier with time. The Bogleheads now have 10 members with a net worth exceeding 50 Million dollars. I am amazed - but it is not about the net worth!

This reminds me of the old joke: There are 10 kinds of people in the world; Those that understand binary and those that don't.

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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by norookie »

Still watching my first paperoutes accumulation compound! IIRC I locked it in w/a FI instrument @ 12% in the 80s. :P
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Re: What is a Boglehead's net worth?

Post by Mudpuppy »

trudy wrote:
Electron wrote:I think net worth implies the value before any future taxes, but the after-tax value is also of interest.

Consider the difference between a large Roth IRA and a large Traditional IRA or 401K of the same dollar amount. A taxable account might only be worth 60-80% of the value of the tax free account. ....
I reduced my net worth for the poll by taking into account the reduction of my Traditional IRAs by projected taxes. Not doing so is counting imaginary money.
To some extent, any accounting of equity investments in terms of dollars instead of shares is also counting imaginary money, in that it's an unrealized/potential value at the moment, not the actual value when one cashes it in for expenses at retirement. One could wander quite far down an esoteric path about what constitutes "real" and "imaginary" money when you really start to think about it.
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