Invite For Free Dinner CFP

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Toons
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Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Toons »

Seems lately ,couple times a months , I am receiving invitations in the mail for a free steak dinner at a local restaurant
from a Certified Financial Planner with 30+ years of experience in private practice.Have any of you out there received such
invites and attended? What could I expect? :happy :happy

Image
Last edited by Toons on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MN Finance
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by MN Finance »

You can expect a free dinner and a pitch to "protect" your money in an annuity. When you start reaching the target demographics and live in certain zip codes, you'll get these almost weekly. Being a "CFP" is nothing more substantive than saying someone graduated from high school, and of course nor is 30 years combined experience. [edit: And I don't really think there is such a thing as a masters in financial planning] [edit 2: how does someone in this business "specialize" in investments? that's like saying I "specialize" in breathing because I'm not dead.]
Last edited by MN Finance on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dickenjb
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by dickenjb »

Expect him to try to sell you expensive variable annuities.
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Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by shawcroft »

I find the use of Mr. Bogle''s name in this advertisement irritating....... :annoyed
I've been to a few of these things in years past and its all about variable annuities. At one of the dinners I attended, they wouldn't identify the company offering the annuity until they reviewed your assets to determine if it was "suitable" for you (I noticed the specific use of that word several times during the pitch)
The food usually isn't very good. There are much better ways to use your time.....try reading Bill Bernstein's "The Investors Manifesto" for a more productive use of the time....
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Toons
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Toons »

shawcroft wrote:I find the use of Mr. Bogle''s name in this advertisement irritating.......
I've been to a few of these things in years past and its all about variable annuities. At one of the dinners I attended, they wouldn't identify the company offering the annuity until they reviewed your assets to determine if it was "suitable" for you (I noticed the specific use of that word several times during the pitch)
The food usually isn't very good. There are much better ways to use your time.....try reading Bill Bernstein's "The Investors Manifesto" for a more productive use of the time....
Shawcroft
It rubbed me the wrong way when I saw Mr Bogles name "attached" to invite also,confusing
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by HueyLD »

..............
Last edited by HueyLD on Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by peppers »

I've been to one with the wife.
Beef, chicken, fresh garden salad, potatoes, bean salad, baked lasagna, various cakes, pies and cookies. Coffee and tea. :happy

Ohhh..the presentation.....the usual "I can do better than average".
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Rubiosa
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Rubiosa »

Ah, that hoary old lie "FREE" again.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by reggiesimpson »

Pick the fish, chicken or steak. Smile frequently and move on.
ddunca1944
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by ddunca1944 »

We get those regularly. I'd like to attend (for the free meal), but DH wants nothing to do with it. So we've always taken a pass.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by kaneohe »

Watch out for the "Please hold the questions.......we have so much to cover in such a short time." At the end of the talk, there will not be any time either which makes for a nice 'divide and conquer' strategy where they can field your questions in private so you won't disturb the other clients. Might still be worth going to a few so you can innoculate your spouse against these folks if you depart first.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by nisiprius »

HueyLD wrote:You might want to attend one just to see what it's all about.
I would not. Huey, thanks for the link to the story of Earl Bronstein, professional plate licker,, but did you read the last paragraph?

I would not. "You can't cheat an honest man." If you go to one with the idea that you are just going to have a free meal and enjoy feeling superior to the salesperson, you are cheating.

So, what actually happens? He is the irresistible force, you are the immovable object, nobody knows what will happen.

Nevertheless: he is a professional who earns a living by selling. You probably do not earn your living by resisting sales. He he does this dozens of times a year. You do this once or twice. Who has had more practice? Who has more skill?

We have a friend who said that she enjoyed going to time-share presentations just to get the free dinner. She said, direct quote, "Oh, when they come over to do the sales pitch, I just tell them 'I'm just here for the free dinner' and they go away and don't bother me." Imagine our surprise to discover some time later that she was trying, with great difficulty, to unload a time-share that she had bought and hardly ever used.

Go to one of these presentations and there is a small but real risk that you might end up buying something.

So back to Earl Bronstein, professional plate licker, and that revealing last paragraph!
one seminar he attended on health care struck a nerve. "I wound up taking out a long-term care policy for my wife. That particular (topic) made sense to me. We’re both seniors. All you need to do is look around at all the people needing healthcare, and, with healthcare being so expensive, this one just made sense."
So, whaddaya think? He ate 50 free lunches, let's say they were worth $50 each, for a grand total of $2500. He bought a long-term-care policy, total cost, what? $25,000? $50,000? Now, mind you, I personally happened to think LTCi made sense for me--always a contentious topic in Bogleheads, but we bought it. So, let's say he bought a legitimate product that he needed.

But was this a wise way to buy it? How much comparison shopping did he do? If he had skipped the free dinners and spend the time shopping carefully for LTCi--seeking insurers, rather than buying from the insurer that sought out him--isn't it possible that he'd have saved more than $2,500--or gotten a better policy?
Last edited by nisiprius on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by 2beachcombers »

I do one, once a year. Have found over the past 10 years, that only 50% of the time I learn anything. But that is still learning. In the beginning(pre Bogleheads, Ferri, Berstein) learning AA and tax efficiency. I don't get invited to ML anymore as they have admitted that I understand IRAs, Roths, pensions, deferred comp, and SS timing and the optimization of those components far better than they do.

My incentive over the past 3 yrs has been to get the wife educated. We are making progress and we have always been invited to the best resturants. Only one was a mild dissapointment--fabulous food but no wine :oops: . And by the way, I have no annuities, no whole life insurance, manage AA and taxes myself. I now focus on the Estate planners. FIDO redoes my estate plan each year--for free. Nice too know a second opinion.

jerry
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by hlfo718 »

Can you leave after eating the juicy steak and tiramisu?
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by chaz »

I get a lot of invites, but don't go.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by WHL »

I'm going one with my mom tomorrow :) It's not dinner, it's lunch, but hey, free is free. I really just want to see what kind of BS they're trying to sell, but I hope I'm surprised and they give out mainly good information.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Fallible »

Toons wrote:Seems lately ,couple times a months , I am receiving invitations in the mail for a free steak dinner at a local restaurant
from a Certified Financial Planner with 30+ years of experience in private practice.Have any of you out there received such
invites and attended? What could I expect? :happy :happy

Image
I've seen many of these invites but I've never seen one with prominent mention, or any mention, of John Bogle. That intrigues me and I'd like to know which of his "recommendations" will be included and how they'll tie them into whatever it is they're pitching. It might be worth attending just for that, but it's up to you, of course. I don't go to them.
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
Dianne
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Dianne »

nisiprius wrote:
HueyLD wrote:You might want to attend one just to see what it's all about.
I would not. Huey, thanks for the link to the story of Earl Bronstein, professional plate licker,, but did you read the last paragraph?

I would not. "You can't cheat an honest man." If you go to one with the idea that you are just going to have a free meal and enjoy feeling superior to the salesperson, you are cheating.

So, what actually happens? He is the irresistible force, you are the immovable object, nobody knows what will happen.

Nevertheless: he is a professional who earns a living by selling. You probably do not earn your living by resisting sales. He he does this dozens of times a year. You do this once or twice. Who has had more practice? Who has more skill?

We have a friend who said that she enjoyed going to time-share presentations just to get the free dinner. She said, direct quote, "Oh, when they come over to do the sales pitch, I just tell them 'I'm just here for the free dinner' and they go away and don't bother me." Imagine our surprise to discover some time later that she was trying, with great difficulty, to unload a time-share that she had bought and never used.

Go to one of these presentations and there is a small but real risk that you might end up buying something.

So back to Earl Bronstein, professional plate licker, and that revealing last paragraph!
one seminar he attended on health care struck a nerve. "I wound up taking out a long-term care policy for my wife. That particular (topic) made sense to me. We’re both seniors. All you need to do is look around at all the people needing healthcare, and, with healthcare being so expensive, this one just made sense."
So, whaddaya think? He ate 50 free lunches, let's say they were worth $50 each, for a grand total of $2500. He bought a long-term-care policy, total cost, what? $25,000? $50,000? Now, mind you, I personally happened to think LTCi made sense for me--always a contentious topic in Bogleheads, but we bought it. So, let's say he bought a legitimate product that he needed.

But was this a wise way to buy it? How much comparison shopping did he do? If he had skipped the free dinners and spend the time shopping carefully for LTCi--seeking insurers, rather than buying from the insurer that sought out him--isn't it possible that he'd have saved more than $2,500--or gotten a better policy?

Yes. This is their business model. The one person who buys the time-share pays for the meals of everybody there. They don't need for you to buy this time -- they have the ability to outwait you. And let me add one wrinkle: A significant number of Americans go through a period of diminished mental capacity before dying. Even if you are never diagnosed with dementia or rendered unable to live independently, you will likely reach a point where you simply don't have the same analytical skills or the strength of will that allowed to you say no to the sales pitch in the past. If you get into the habit of going to these dinners, you will keep going to them after you lose that ability to say no, and then you will make the purchase that more than pays for all of the past free meals.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by hicabob »

2beachcombers wrote:I do one, once a year. Have found over the past 10 years, that only 50% of the time I learn anything. But that is still learning. In the beginning(pre Bogleheads, Ferri, Berstein) learning AA and tax efficiency. I don't get invited to ML anymore as they have admitted that I understand IRAs, Roths, pensions, deferred comp, and SS timing and the optimization of those components far better than they do.

My incentive over the past 3 yrs has been to get the wife educated. We are making progress and we have always been invited to the best resturants. Only one was a mild dissapointment--fabulous food but no wine :oops: . And by the way, I have no annuities, no whole life insurance, manage AA and taxes myself. I now focus on the Estate planners. FIDO redoes my estate plan each year--for free. Nice too know a second opinion.

jerry

Yup, If you have the right attitude they can be ok - My 23yo kid likes to go with me to the occasional one. He believes it's a good way to learn sales techniques ... best was when the v. annuity salesman (they are always pitching variable annuities it seems) started snapping a stack 2 dollar bills he had in his jacket and giving them away for correct answers to basic financial questions.. Free dinner + we made $4!
They have immunized my kid to variable annuities too.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by kenyan »

I would expect what could potentially be the most expensive, rather than the cheapest, dinner you've ever had.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Random Musings »

I have gotten several invites, but have not the urge to go. There have been a couple of interesting restaurant offerings that have made me think to go for the free food.

However, I don't think I could stand listening to all their B.S.

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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by dickenjb »

Fallible wrote:I've seen many of these invites but I've never seen one with prominent mention, or any mention, of John Bogle. That intrigues me and I'd like to know which of his "recommendations" will be included and how they'll tie them into whatever it is they're pitching. It might be worth attending just for that, but it's up to you, of course. I don't go to them.
My educated guess - index funds in a variable annuity wrapper.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by midareff »

Down here (Miami) it's rubber chicken and hard sell.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by HueyLD »

.........
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Toons
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Toons »

How do they find "Us"? :shock:
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Fallible »

dickenjb wrote:
Fallible wrote:I've seen many of these invites but I've never seen one with prominent mention, or any mention, of John Bogle. That intrigues me and I'd like to know which of his "recommendations" will be included and how they'll tie them into whatever it is they're pitching. It might be worth attending just for that, but it's up to you, of course. I don't go to them.
My educated guess - index funds in a variable annuity wrapper.
I bet that's a very good guess. I also think just the mention of John Bogle may be an acknowledgement to how increasingly well known he's becoming among more small investors.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by letsgobobby »

I have not even been tempted by one of these. On all the local radio 'financial shows' (ie, thinly veiled hour long advertising) they constantly claim "a free, no obligation seminaor" or "free no obligation review" if your assets are at least (pick a number). C'mon, life is short.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

You know what they say...there's no free lun....er, dinner!

Let's see...the pitch to protect spenddown of assets for medicaid...the only things to do that are purchase an annuity outside the lookback period or give assets away outside the lookback period. Even if you put large assets into an insurance policy, the cash value (except the first $1000) is counted so that won't help. Buy a timeshare? No that's non-resident property and counts as a resource unless it's income producing.

Therefore, since he doesn't benefit from you giving your assets to your family and he'd be lying if he sold you a timeshare or insurance claiming it protects from medicaid spenddown...that only leaves one option....annuity salesperson! :happy

If you go, be sure he tells you how he gets paid and make sure he uses the word "commissions". If he tells you the firm pays him, please do correct him/her.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by ThePrune »

I go to these things whenever my schedule will allow. I live in a rather low population area of Michigan, and I like to know all the local financial "players", their background and their sales techniques. That enables me to more intelligently protect my friends and people I meet in the retirement planning and investing classes I teach (for free!).

I generally keep my mouth shut during question time, unless they've said something really stupid. I never attend any planner's event more than once .... unless I have a friend that is determined to go and they ask me along to give them a Bogleheads' perspective on what was presented.

If you are really interested in the seedy side of the world of insurance product sales, get onto the Producer's Web email distribution list. "For only $500,000 of Index Annuity sales in the next 3 months YOU can win this trip to Cancun!"
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by tim1999 »

Here's what I'd do if I got such an invite and the restaurant was high end or one I otherwise would like a free meal at:

1. Around the time the dinner is supposed to start, observe the room from nearby and observe the ratio of "marks" vs. "salespeople." If there are far more marks than salespeople, go in. Otherwise leave unless you can take the direct sales pressure. Low number of marks vs. salespeople probably equals a higher chance of the salespeople bugging you one-on-one.
2. As soon as you are finished eating, act like you have to go to the bathroom. Leave your napkin on the chair like you are coming back, and just walk out of the restaurant and go home. Nobody is going to physically hold you down, and you'll never see these people again anyway. You should have left any jackets or overcoats in your car so as not to tip off the salespeople that you're leaving the building.
3. Don't expect a repeat invite.

One day I'd like to test my plan. :greedy
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Fallible »

Cherokee8215 wrote:Here's what I'd do if I got such an invite and the restaurant was high end or one I otherwise would like a free meal at:

1. Around the time the dinner is supposed to start, observe the room from nearby and observe the ratio of "marks" vs. "salespeople." If there are far more marks than salespeople, go in. Otherwise leave unless you can take the direct sales pressure. Low number of marks vs. salespeople probably equals a higher chance of the salespeople bugging you one-on-one.
2. As soon as you are finished eating, act like you have to go to the bathroom. Leave your napkin on the chair like you are coming back, and just walk out of the restaurant and go home. Nobody is going to physically hold you down, and you'll never see these people again anyway. You should have left any jackets or overcoats in your car so as not to tip off the salespeople that you're leaving the building.
3. Don't expect a repeat invite....
I would expect a good salesperson to go right on inviting you. They don't give up.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by likegarden »

I am getting those invitations, but never go because since they are salesmen they might be able to sell me and my wife something we do not need. I do not need free food, am able to buy my own.
One local group of lawyers has specialized in trusts to protect assets in case long-term care is needed, but they also listed in their invitation their book they had written. So I bought that book on Amazon, read it, and learned that I do not need a trust yet because we have long-term care insurance, so I do not need to go for that 'Free' food.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by jaytheman »

The vegan in me says to be wary of those wishing to help me lead a long life while feed me a steak. Just a thought.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by livesoft »

nisiprius wrote:So, what actually happens? He is the irresistible force, you are the immovable object, nobody knows what will happen.
A little bit off-topic, but by way of NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/ ... e-who-wins but the last spoken words are on topic.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Calm Man »

I too have been seeing a number of these invitations which I guess means somebody knows I have passed 60. If one should go, if for no reason other than to maybe meet some other people or pass some time, is there any high pressure? Or can you go, say nothing, and not get individually approached? In fact, can you sign up under an alias or do they ask for ID?
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Default User BR »

The only ones I get are from a local planner. Not steak though. I did go one time, and it was not what I was expecting:

To the Investment Seminar and back again


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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by bsteiner »

Dianne is correct. If you're the one who buys the annuity, the living trust, the timeshare, or the bridge, you paid for the free dinners for everyone in the room.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by mickeyd »

I recommend that you attend the dinner, listen to the dog/pony show, but ( as Scott Burns has said) don't drink to koolaid.

I've attended close to 2 dozen of these deals and generally hit the bar about 30 minutes prior to the start and always show up 10 minutes late. The meals have all been good or very good.

It's pretty good Boglehead entertainment. :beer
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by david99 »

jaytheman wrote:The vegan in me says to be wary of those wishing to help me lead a long life while feed me a steak. Just a thought.

I agree ---- I can eat a much healthier meal at home and not waste my time with these people. I don't have that much free time and plenty of hobbies and interests.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by ThePrune »

Default User BR wrote:The only ones I get are from a local planner. Not steak though. I did go one time, and it was not what I was expecting: To the Investment Seminar and back again

Brian
Thanks for supplying this link to your 2010 posting. None of the seminar's I've been to have been nearly as interesting as the one you attended and described here.

We DID have an interesting scam in my town several years ago. A local employee of a Michigan-wide brokerage and Investment Advisory group was having clients make their investment checks out to "H.F.I", the initials of the company. He then was despositing them into the account of a dummy company he had set up, "Henry Firearms Inc.". Local investors lost several million because SIPC insurance didn't apply - the money never made it into the brokerage and hence wasn't covered!

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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by chipmonk »

MN Finance wrote:You can expect a free dinner and a pitch to "protect" your money in an annuity. When you start reaching the target demographics and live in certain zip codes, you'll get these almost weekly.
I'm curious. What is the target demographic? I'm 31 and live in an upscale zip code, but have never yet been invited to one of these.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by reggiesimpson »

chipmonk wrote:
MN Finance wrote:You can expect a free dinner and a pitch to "protect" your money in an annuity. When you start reaching the target demographics and live in certain zip codes, you'll get these almost weekly.
I'm curious. What is the target demographic? I'm 31 and live in an upscale zip code, but have never yet been invited to one of these.
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by 6miths »

I go to these now and then and attended one last month. A very nice steak dinner at a local upscale restaurant. I usually go for the entertainment value and don't hesitate to leave if it is a hard sell of something silly instead of a more educational session. I usually go with a colleague from work and we compare notes as the talk goes on. The most recent one I went to was actually quite good and I came away feeling reassured that I had either considered and discounted or was doing most of the strategies discussed. My favorite one of all time was a pitch for big leveraging into equities in the fall of 2007. :D
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by LadyGeek »

Let's get this alphabet soup of designations straightened out. Take a look in the wiki: Financial planner
Wiki wrote:Financial Analyst, Financial Adviser (Advisor), Financial Consultant, Financial Planner, Investment Consultant or Wealth Manager are generic terms or job titles, and may be used by investment professionals who may not hold any specific designation.
If the advisor has a bunch of designations after the name, go here to see what they mean: Understanding Professional Designations

BTW, the registered trade mark of the CFP® means something (Why are the CFP® Certification Requirements Important?). However, I don't see the registered trade mark in the sign, so I'd have some questions about that.

If you want to do your homework, check the advisor's credentials before hand. See: Investment adviser (Under "Background checks")
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Dianne
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Dianne »

chipmonk wrote:
MN Finance wrote:You can expect a free dinner and a pitch to "protect" your money in an annuity. When you start reaching the target demographics and live in certain zip codes, you'll get these almost weekly.
I'm curious. What is the target demographic? I'm 31 and live in an upscale zip code, but have never yet been invited to one of these.
Retirees. Typically they have rolled over the retirement plan to an IRA that they can either cash in or invest in a high-commission annuity within the IRA. Also, they often have significant home equity (from years of mortgage payments and home appreciation) that they can borrow against to purchase investment products.

Most 31-year-olds still have mortgages that are close to the value of their home, and their savings are locked in a 401(k) that they can't invest with a third party. So they're not good targets, even if they're in upscale zip codes.
chipmonk
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by chipmonk »

Dianne wrote:Most 31-year-olds still have mortgages that are close to the value of their home, and their savings are locked in a 401(k) that they can't invest with a third party. So they're not good targets, even if they're in upscale zip codes.
Well, darn it! I have no mortgage and plenty of taxable investments.

I guess I'm not a good target for a different reason... :-p
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Rob5TCP
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Rob5TCP »

I live by the East Village in NY and never have never received an invitation to one of these "events".
I am nearing that age. My brother (who couldn't buy one of those policies if he wanted) gets several
each month.
I would be curious - might be amusing.
Dianne
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Dianne »

chipmonk wrote:
Dianne wrote:Most 31-year-olds still have mortgages that are close to the value of their home, and their savings are locked in a 401(k) that they can't invest with a third party. So they're not good targets, even if they're in upscale zip codes.
Well, darn it! I have no mortgage and plenty of taxable investments.

I guess I'm not a good target for a different reason... :-p
Heh. Yes, a 31-year-old with enough financial savvy to have already paid off the house is not a good target either.
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Mrs.Feeley
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by Mrs.Feeley »

My mom and her elderly friends used to go to these free lunches all the time. As mom said "We all get dressed up and pretend we have money! They never seem to mind if you bring friends along." Until the lunch where they all got food poisoning, and that ended the free lunches.
lawman3966
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Re: Invite For Free Dinner CFP

Post by lawman3966 »

I'd be tempted to go once to see how good the steak was. I happen to come armed with a thick dose of skepticism about the sales pitches, and am confident that I would successfully resist any sales pressure.

However, for most people, most of the time, there is nothing more expensive than a free dinner.

Just my 2c.
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