Refinance Mega Thread

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nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

If I just signed up today to view rates did I screw myself with the Amex offer? I haven't submitted the application yet.


Whew - found this in the T&C

"If you have already created an account with Better Mortgage, contact your Better Mortgage Loan consultant or call (877-688-3252) to request the offer prior to your loan closing"
Krautz
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Krautz »

[/quote]

I think you correctly identified that the HELOC is what is causing the issues. There are a WIDE variety of factors that affect the rate you can get, the main ones being credit score, zip code, amount of loan, etc...

Better does a great job matching their OWN rate on Bankrate.com (I had them do it 3 days ago.)

Is there a reason you need the HELOC with a $0 open? Why not close it and then go through with your refi?
[/quote]

Credit Score Mrs K: 787
Credit Score Mr. K 791
Primary Residence: 30yr Conventional, in year 8
Remaining Loan: 124,500
APR: 4.375%
HELOC: opened for private matter, never used it.

Hi mceagle555,
Thank you for replying!
Our entire experience has been full of missteps so far. We were preapproved and prior to completing the application process we had to stop because we noticed the LO put us in for a 30 yr refinance @ 2.875% APR instead of the 15 yr refinance we asked for. They amended the application and then said the 15yr refinance is 2.442%. When asked if they would honor their rate bankrate for our zipcode, they flat out said they do not match rates listed on Bankrate and gave us several different reasons why when asked to clarify. We never finalized our application with the hard credit pull, because the bait & switch APR just felt off putting. We went from 2.375% to 2.875 to 2.442%. I

The HELOC we just view as a security blanket should the world come to an end and all of our other safety/emergency measures fail. Emotional reason I guess. :confused

Mrs K
(shoot .. can't work out the reply action well enough)
ya rulz
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ya rulz »

FYI, I just locked in a refi with Better yesterday (should've waited until today but the early morning treasury moves after the CPI announcement spooked me, but I digress) and I requested a quote from Radian for title services. They responded back that they are no longer an approved title company for Better and that I should reach out to my contact at Better for more information.
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Ketawa
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ketawa »

Will any of these big online lenders work with co-ops? I asked Better, but they won't lend for co-ops. My current mortgage is a 15 year at 2.5% with Wells Fargo, which had 1.375% in lender credit when I purchased in February 2021. I would like to refinance to a lower rate if I can find a no-cost option.
NoProbLlama
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NoProbLlama »

wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Any provisions that would make you ineligibile for this offer if you took advantage of it back in 2020 also?
NoProbLlama
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NoProbLlama »

NoProbLlama wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:29 pm
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Any provisions that would make you ineligibile for this offer if you took advantage of it back in 2020 also?
I found my own answer. The fine print says the following: Only one statement credit per property within a six-month period.

Now I'm trying to figure out if I can still get the credit since my appraisal fee was waived. It looks like they want you to use your AMEX card for the appraisal fee (which I did back in 2020), but the appraisal was waived this time around.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

NoProbLlama wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:38 pm
NoProbLlama wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:29 pm
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Any provisions that would make you ineligibile for this offer if you took advantage of it back in 2020 also?
I found my own answer. The fine print says the following: Only one statement credit per property within a six-month period.

Now I'm trying to figure out if I can still get the credit since my appraisal fee was waived. It looks like they want you to use your AMEX card for the appraisal fee (which I did back in 2020), but the appraisal was waived this time around.
Last year I got the AMEX offer and had the appraisal fee waived.
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

ya rulz wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:48 pm They responded back that they are no longer an approved title company for Better and that I should reach out to my contact at Better for more information.
This is very interesting/concerning.

Radian are the ones who told you they are no longer an approved title company for Better? Did you get this via phone from Radian or via email?
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FrugalProfessor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FrugalProfessor »

wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
I'm interested in this offer but don't currently have an Amex.

The fine print says cobranded cards won't work. Any recommendations on a card that will qualify? I have no interest in using the card on an ongoing basis because I'm part of the 5.25% BoA cult.

The platinum card has a large sign-up bonus now (100k/125k) but a massive $550 annual fee. Is the optimal thing to get that card, then product convert to a $0 AF card?

Given the recurring nature of this Better/Amex promotion, I could see this as a lucrative strategy to consider on an ongoing basis. I assume that no 1099's are generated by these statement credits?
I blog. Taxes are the lowest hanging source of alpha. I eat tax alpha for breakfast.
DrGrnTum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DrGrnTum »

FrugalProfessor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:51 am
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
I'm interested in this offer but don't currently have an Amex.

The fine print says cobranded cards won't work. Any recommendations on a card that will qualify? I have no interest in using the card on an ongoing basis because I'm part of the 5.25% BoA cult.

The platinum card has a large sign-up bonus now (100k/125k) but a massive $550 annual fee. Is the optimal thing to get that card, then product convert to a $0 AF card?

Given the recurring nature of this Better/Amex promotion, I could see this as a lucrative strategy to consider on an ongoing basis. I assume that no 1099's are generated by these statement credits?
The Amex no fee Blue Cash Everyday card worked for us when we got the credit the last time this was offered.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Sharing is caring! Thank you! A quick phone call and a few hours wait, and voila, my task to enter in my Amex card # appeared. So this refi is now looking at around $4.5k of profit!
:sharebeer
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:25 pm
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Sharing is caring! Thank you! A quick phone call and a few hours wait, and voila, my task to enter in my Amex card # appeared. So this refi is now looking at around $4.5k of profit!
:sharebeer
I have a pre-existing Better.com account as well as an AmEx. What exactly do I need to do to make sure I can take advantage of this $2K offer as well as appriasal waiver (my LTV will be less than 50%)?

Any suggestions/step-by-step will be greatly appreciated as I don't want to screw this up for any reason or silly mistakes!
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:25 pm
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Sharing is caring! Thank you! A quick phone call and a few hours wait, and voila, my task to enter in my Amex card # appeared. So this refi is now looking at around $4.5k of profit!
:sharebeer
Wow! You profited off Amex and Better in 2020, and now 2021!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

newbie20 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:53 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:25 pm
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Sharing is caring! Thank you! A quick phone call and a few hours wait, and voila, my task to enter in my Amex card # appeared. So this refi is now looking at around $4.5k of profit!
:sharebeer
I have a pre-existing Better.com account as well as an AmEx. What exactly do I need to do to make sure I can take advantage of this $2K offer as well as appriasal waiver (my LTV will be less than 50%)?

Any suggestions/step-by-step will be greatly appreciated as I don't want to screw this up for any reason or silly mistakes!
When you log into your existing account, does it say "Your closing is around the corner" even though you already had one? If so, you need to call them and get your file closed out so you can apply again, or you need to use a different email address for a new account. Either way, when ready, just apply from better.com/with/amex and you should be good to go.

Please note, last time the promo included paying for the appraisal, if needed. This time, that is not the case, so you are at the mercy of Fannie's underwriting system to waive the appraisal or not.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:56 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:25 pm
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Sharing is caring! Thank you! A quick phone call and a few hours wait, and voila, my task to enter in my Amex card # appeared. So this refi is now looking at around $4.5k of profit!
:sharebeer
Wow! You profited off Amex and Better in 2020, and now 2021!
Well, I profited from them back in January 2021 too. But now we are doing much better and my mortgage size is large enough to actually get good offers anywhere I punch in my numbers. I figure in late 2021, I can refi again as a conventional conforming vs a cash-out.
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:07 pm
newbie20 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:53 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:25 pm
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
Sharing is caring! Thank you! A quick phone call and a few hours wait, and voila, my task to enter in my Amex card # appeared. So this refi is now looking at around $4.5k of profit!
:sharebeer
I have a pre-existing Better.com account as well as an AmEx. What exactly do I need to do to make sure I can take advantage of this $2K offer as well as appriasal waiver (my LTV will be less than 50%)?

Any suggestions/step-by-step will be greatly appreciated as I don't want to screw this up for any reason or silly mistakes!
When you log into your existing account, does it say "Your closing is around the corner" even though you already had one? If so, you need to call them and get your file closed out so you can apply again, or you need to use a different email address for a new account. Either way, when ready, just apply from better.com/with/amex and you should be good to go.

Please note, last time the promo included paying for the appraisal, if needed. This time, that is not the case, so you are at the mercy of Fannie's underwriting system to waive the appraisal or not.
I have never closed any loans with them in the past, so the only thing I see when I login is my home address and it starts by asking me to complete an application. Do you think I should just start from Amex link and create a new account using a new email address, to be on the safe side?
DrGrnTum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DrGrnTum »

FrugalProfessor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:51 am
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
I'm interested in this offer but don't currently have an Amex.

The fine print says cobranded cards won't work. Any recommendations on a card that will qualify? I have no interest in using the card on an ongoing basis because I'm part of the 5.25% BoA cult.

The platinum card has a large sign-up bonus now (100k/125k) but a massive $550 annual fee. Is the optimal thing to get that card, then product convert to a $0 AF card?

Given the recurring nature of this Better/Amex promotion, I could see this as a lucrative strategy to consider on an ongoing basis. I assume that no 1099's are generated by these statement credits?
When I received the credit it was treated like credit card bonus points. No 1099 was generated.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

FrugalProfessor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:51 am
wootwoot wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm Looks like better.com has another offer for those with Amex cards. 2k back on a successful refi or 6k back on a jumbo refi. Let the games begin!

https://better.com/with/amex
I'm interested in this offer but don't currently have an Amex.

The fine print says cobranded cards won't work. Any recommendations on a card that will qualify? I have no interest in using the card on an ongoing basis because I'm part of the 5.25% BoA cult.

The platinum card has a large sign-up bonus now (100k/125k) but a massive $550 annual fee. Is the optimal thing to get that card, then product convert to a $0 AF card?

Given the recurring nature of this Better/Amex promotion, I could see this as a lucrative strategy to consider on an ongoing basis. I assume that no 1099's are generated by these statement credits?
I use the BofA 5.25%/2.625% cards, but it is great to have an Amex card for their cashback offers and of course the Better.com offer when they have it.

I do think the Platinum card is worthwhile for the bonus, if you know how to use Amex MR points. I applied in December to get the 100k bonus. I also got an additional 20k bonus later on for activating the "Pay Over Time" function (and then deactivating it shortly thereafter). And you get 10x points on grocery/gas for the first 6 months. I also use the $20 monthly UberEats credit. So all things considered, the $550 fee is not so bad, and then you downgrade to a free card before paying the next year's fee.

Or just get a free card like the Blue Cash Everyday.
ya rulz
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ya rulz »

mceagle555 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:49 am
ya rulz wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:48 pm They responded back that they are no longer an approved title company for Better and that I should reach out to my contact at Better for more information.
This is very interesting/concerning.

Radian are the ones who told you they are no longer an approved title company for Better? Did you get this via phone from Radian or via email?
That was from Radian via email. I sent them an initial email asking for a price quote with details on lender, property, and loan amount and got that response like 30 minutes later. They said to talk to my rep at Better for more details which I’m going to do on Monday. On the bright side, I told Better I was shopping for title services and my quote from them went down by around $700 but might have just been a coincidence.
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

ya rulz wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:09 am
mceagle555 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:49 am
ya rulz wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:48 pm They responded back that they are no longer an approved title company for Better and that I should reach out to my contact at Better for more information.
This is very interesting/concerning.

Radian are the ones who told you they are no longer an approved title company for Better? Did you get this via phone from Radian or via email?
That was from Radian via email. I sent them an initial email asking for a price quote with details on lender, property, and loan amount and got that response like 30 minutes later. They said to talk to my rep at Better for more details which I’m going to do on Monday. On the bright side, I told Better I was shopping for title services and my quote from them went down by around $700 but might have just been a coincidence.
I really hope that is a weird glitch or misunderstanding. Radian's service is top notch. Have you used Radian before by chance? Also, what state are you in? Maybe Radian isn't approved for title services in your state?
ma21n2
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ma21n2 »

Does anyone know if Better.com is now refinancing mortgages that require subordination?
I have a 2nd mortgage, which I'm going to keep (0% interest loan from employer).
Last year, when I tried to refinance with Better.com, after all the paperwork and appraisal, they said they don't do refinancing w/subordination.
ChaseD20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChaseD20 »

I’m in process of refinancing with Sebonic.
My LTV 74%, current mortgage 30 yr 2.75%
Refinancing to 15 yr 2.0% with closing costs $1100.


PG
PG
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

ChaseD20 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:31 pm I’m in process of refinancing with Sebonic.
My LTV 74%, current mortgage 30 yr 2.75%
Refinancing to 15 yr 2.0% with closing costs $1100.


PG
That’s a great offer.

Sebonic and Cardinal Financial are the same company. CF charges a $895 origination fee. Does Sebonic? If so, what are the lender credits you are getting to cover the other items to bring things down to $1,100?
gpburdell
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

nic3456 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:28 pm If I just signed up today to view rates did I screw myself with the Amex offer? I haven't submitted the application yet.


Whew - found this in the T&C

"If you have already created an account with Better Mortgage, contact your Better Mortgage Loan consultant or call (877-688-3252) to request the offer prior to your loan closing"
Damn wish I had known about this a few weeks ago
ChaseD20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChaseD20 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:41 pm
ChaseD20 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:31 pm I’m in process of refinancing with Sebonic.
My LTV 74%, current mortgage 30 yr 2.75%
Refinancing to 15 yr 2.0% with closing costs $1100.


PG
That’s a great offer.

Sebonic and Cardinal Financial are the same company. CF charges a $895 origination fee. Does Sebonic? If so, what are the lender credits you are getting to cover the other items to bring things down to $1,100?

Sebonic originating fee is $1490 of which they gave $990 credit. $1100 includes title fee of $575 and waived appraisal.


PG
PG
insahmniak
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by insahmniak »

We locked with Better a week ago and we are moving through the process but haven't scheduled closing yet. I am also an Amex member. Too late for me to get the Amex /Better deal?
mdds
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mdds »

Just getting ready to do another refinance (did one with Lenderfi last fall - 10yr 2.5%) and then read about the AMEX offer with Better and all the comments about how well the refi's are going with them. I do not currently have an AMEX card but am willing to open one for the 2k credit. Does anyone know if you need to wait to receive the card before applying/locking or can I apply for both simultaneously? Thanks!

EDIT: Also, what AMEX card is best? I am not opposed to a yearly fee if it pays for itself. Our current main two cards are Discover and Citi 2%.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

What’s up everyone.
I thought I was done with a refi but now Amex has the promo again.

I got an offer from better. This will probably be my last refi unless I can get a 1.75 or better later. But highly doubt it. But with the Amex deal it can cut some cost.
Loan amount 324,100
15 year 1.875
A+B+C = $2400
Amex=$2000

Good deal or keep looking?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 am What’s up everyone.
I thought I was done with a refi but now Amex has the promo again.

I got an offer from better. This will probably be my last refi unless I can get a 1.75 or better later. But highly doubt it. But with the Amex deal it can cut some cost.
Loan amount 324,100
15 year 1.875
A+B+C = $2400
Amex=$2000

Good deal or keep looking?
Good deal, but what’s the cost at 2%?
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:41 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 am What’s up everyone.
I thought I was done with a refi but now Amex has the promo again.

I got an offer from better. This will probably be my last refi unless I can get a 1.75 or better later. But highly doubt it. But with the Amex deal it can cut some cost.
Loan amount 324,100
15 year 1.875
A+B+C = $2400
Amex=$2000

Good deal or keep looking?
Good deal, but what’s the cost at 2%?
What’s up Brandon, I see your doing another refi. Lol you champ.
It’s zero cost at 2.0. I was thinking that option. But I figure, with the 2000 Amex deal. My cost is kinda only like 400ish dollars. But it would save me $3000 in interest between 1.875 vs 2% over 15 years. Not sure if my thinking is correct though
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:48 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:41 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 am What’s up everyone.
I thought I was done with a refi but now Amex has the promo again.

I got an offer from better. This will probably be my last refi unless I can get a 1.75 or better later. But highly doubt it. But with the Amex deal it can cut some cost.
Loan amount 324,100
15 year 1.875
A+B+C = $2400
Amex=$2000

Good deal or keep looking?
Good deal, but what’s the cost at 2%?
What’s up Brandon, I see your doing another refi. Lol you champ.
It’s zero cost at 2.0. I was thinking that option. But I figure, with the 2000 Amex deal. My cost is kinda only like 400ish dollars. But it would save me $3000 in interest between 1.875 vs 2% over 15 years. Not sure if my thinking is correct though
That $3k in interest savings, did you deduct the extra $2,400 in closing costs to really only save $600? Or did you already account for that on the $3k.

If you didn’t and the savings is only $600, I personally would prefer the cash now vs inflated over the years.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:52 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:48 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:41 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:22 am What’s up everyone.
I thought I was done with a refi but now Amex has the promo again.

I got an offer from better. This will probably be my last refi unless I can get a 1.75 or better later. But highly doubt it. But with the Amex deal it can cut some cost.
Loan amount 324,100
15 year 1.875
A+B+C = $2400
Amex=$2000

Good deal or keep looking?
Good deal, but what’s the cost at 2%?
What’s up Brandon, I see your doing another refi. Lol you champ.
It’s zero cost at 2.0. I was thinking that option. But I figure, with the 2000 Amex deal. My cost is kinda only like 400ish dollars. But it would save me $3000 in interest between 1.875 vs 2% over 15 years. Not sure if my thinking is correct though
That $3k in interest savings, did you deduct the extra $2,400 in closing costs to really only save $600? Or did you already account for that on the $3k.

If you didn’t and the savings is only $600, I personally would prefer the cash now vs inflated over the years.
I was just going to add the fee to the loan. The $2400 fee base on my home mortgage calculator barely made a difference if I added it to the loan.

Option 1)
$324,100 with 2% no fee 15 year= $51,310 interest payment $2,085, Amex 2000

Option 2) adding $2400 to the loan amount
$326,500 with 1.875% 15 years= 48,316 interest payment 2,082, Amex 2000
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:04 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:52 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:48 am What’s up Brandon, I see your doing another refi. Lol you champ.
It’s zero cost at 2.0. I was thinking that option. But I figure, with the 2000 Amex deal. My cost is kinda only like 400ish dollars. But it would save me $3000 in interest between 1.875 vs 2% over 15 years. Not sure if my thinking is correct though
That $3k in interest savings, did you deduct the extra $2,400 in closing costs to really only save $600? Or did you already account for that on the $3k.

If you didn’t and the savings is only $600, I personally would prefer the cash now vs inflated over the years.
I was just going to add the fee to the loan. The $2400 fee base on my home mortgage calculator barely made a difference if I added it to the loan.

Option 1)
$324,100 with 2% no fee 15 year= $51,310 interest payment $2,085, Amex 2000

Option 2) adding $2400 to the loan amount
$326,500 with 1.875% 15 years= 48,316 interest payment 2,082, Amex 2000
Hmmm. I hadn’t thought of doing it that way. I wonder if it makes a difference in the calculations. I add the A-E closing costs as additional interest when doing my comparisons.

I’m not by my spreadsheet. If you do the interest of $324,100 @ $1.875% + $2,400, does it also come out to $48,316? If not, is it higher or lower.

If that has a different total interest amount, does it change your decision? You could still roll in the closing costs, just use whichever set of calcs to help your decision-making.
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

ya rulz wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:09 am
mceagle555 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:49 am
ya rulz wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:48 pm They responded back that they are no longer an approved title company for Better and that I should reach out to my contact at Better for more information.
This is very interesting/concerning.

Radian are the ones who told you they are no longer an approved title company for Better? Did you get this via phone from Radian or via email?
That was from Radian via email. I sent them an initial email asking for a price quote with details on lender, property, and loan amount and got that response like 30 minutes later. They said to talk to my rep at Better for more details which I’m going to do on Monday. On the bright side, I told Better I was shopping for title services and my quote from them went down by around $700 but might have just been a coincidence.
This is so weird. I'm in the process of refinancing right now and had requested that Better would use Radian. I had a screenshot of a title insurance offer from Radian that I sent onward to my contact at Better.

Last Friday, my closing officer @ Better told me that they were in the process of getting everything finalized with Radian to act as my title insurance. I have not heard anything yet from them, so I had assumed it was all getting setup. That said, my loan estimate has NOT been updated to show that Radian is the title insurer. Very concerning.

Also, I want to call about the Amex promo and trying to get credits for that applied to my refinancing. So I have a few things to discuss with them today. We have to pay for appraisal, so perhaps can get that waived!
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:13 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:04 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:52 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:48 am What’s up Brandon, I see your doing another refi. Lol you champ.
It’s zero cost at 2.0. I was thinking that option. But I figure, with the 2000 Amex deal. My cost is kinda only like 400ish dollars. But it would save me $3000 in interest between 1.875 vs 2% over 15 years. Not sure if my thinking is correct though
That $3k in interest savings, did you deduct the extra $2,400 in closing costs to really only save $600? Or did you already account for that on the $3k.

If you didn’t and the savings is only $600, I personally would prefer the cash now vs inflated over the years.
I was just going to add the fee to the loan. The $2400 fee base on my home mortgage calculator barely made a difference if I added it to the loan.

Option 1)
$324,100 with 2% no fee 15 year= $51,310 interest payment $2,085, Amex 2000

Option 2) adding $2400 to the loan amount
$326,500 with 1.875% 15 years= 48,316 interest payment 2,082, Amex 2000
Hmmm. I hadn’t thought of doing it that way. I wonder if it makes a difference in the calculations. I add the A-E closing costs as additional interest when doing my comparisons.

I’m not by my spreadsheet. If you do the interest of $324,100 @ $1.875% + $2,400, does it also come out to $48,316? If not, is it higher or lower.

If that has a different total interest amount, does it change your decision? You could still roll in the closing costs, just use whichever set of calcs to help your decision-making.
At 324,100 1.875, my payment would be $2,067 monthly with 47,962 interest. Thats if I pay $2,400 out of pocket upfront.

If I add it to the loan, new loan $326,500. With $48,316 interest. Payment $2,082

The difference is $354 total interest and $15/month dollar difference if I just add the cost to the loan. I rather just add it vs paying it for so little difference overall. Hope that makes sense lol
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

mceagle555 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:02 am
apres_all_day wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:04 am
mceagle555 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:40 am Similar to BrandonBogle (Kudos for your participation in the thread!), I'm currently midway through my 4th refinance with Better.com

I've lowered my rate between .125% & .25% each time, pocketing at least $1K each time at closing. Super simple and great company to work with.
How long do you have to wait to refinance again with Better?

We are currently in our first refinance with Better. If rates dip later this year, I'd love to go again for another refinance!
I've done all 4 of mine within the last 8 months. They don't have any language I've seen as far as waiting time...though I haven't necessarily publicized it to them each time I've switched.

That all being said, I've made sure that I had a compelling reason (something other than pocketing $$ at closing) to refi again. For example: Moving from a 30yr to a 15yr; lowering rate from 2.375% to 2.25%; etc... I personally wouldn't think it would look good to refi to a higher rate, simply to pocket $$ at closing.
Super cool - thanks for explaining. Did you use the same account/email address with Better.com for each of the refinancings?

I'm almost certain that most lenders would NOT allow you to switch to a higher interest rate. There are fiduciary requirements that the refinance must be financially beneficial to you - either lower monthly payment or paying less interest overall.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:22 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:13 am Hmmm. I hadn’t thought of doing it that way. I wonder if it makes a difference in the calculations. I add the A-E closing costs as additional interest when doing my comparisons.

I’m not by my spreadsheet. If you do the interest of $324,100 @ $1.875% + $2,400, does it also come out to $48,316? If not, is it higher or lower.

If that has a different total interest amount, does it change your decision? You could still roll in the closing costs, just use whichever set of calcs to help your decision-making.
At 324,100 1.875, my payment would be $2,067 monthly with 47,962 interest. Thats if I pay $2,400 out of pocket upfront.

If I add it to the loan, new loan $326,500. With $48,316 interest. Payment $2,082

The difference is $354 total interest and $15/month dollar difference if I just add the cost to the loan. I rather just add it vs paying it for so little difference overall. Hope that makes sense lol
Gotcha. Not quite what I meant thought.

Comparing apples-to-apples,
$324,100 @ 2% = $51,310 interest + $0 closing costs = $51,310
$324,100 @ 1.875% = $47,962 int + $2,400 closing cost = $50,462

So going from 2% -> 1.875% only saves you around $900.

If you want that $900 over 15 years vs. money in your pocket today, then you consider $2,400 @ 1.875% over the 15 years ($354 I believe you calculated) and the cost the roll in the closing costs is low enough to not worry about the extra interest.

The question still remains though if you rather have money today (or 8-12 weeks from now for the Amex credits) vs. $900 over 15 years. Personally, I would pick the former, but there isn’t anything inherently wrong with the latter. It’s just not a $3k difference between the two with the way I calculate things.

That doesn’t mean though my way (count closing costs as interest) or your way (count closing costs as principal increase) is right or wrong.
manuvns
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by manuvns »

has anyone received quote from Sofi on primary home and investment property . what kind of rates/fees/closing costs are you getting from sofi . I was told that i can get lender credits based on my income and score . thanks
Thanks!
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:58 am
Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:22 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:13 am Hmmm. I hadn’t thought of doing it that way. I wonder if it makes a difference in the calculations. I add the A-E closing costs as additional interest when doing my comparisons.

I’m not by my spreadsheet. If you do the interest of $324,100 @ $1.875% + $2,400, does it also come out to $48,316? If not, is it higher or lower.

If that has a different total interest amount, does it change your decision? You could still roll in the closing costs, just use whichever set of calcs to help your decision-making.
At 324,100 1.875, my payment would be $2,067 monthly with 47,962 interest. Thats if I pay $2,400 out of pocket upfront.

If I add it to the loan, new loan $326,500. With $48,316 interest. Payment $2,082

The difference is $354 total interest and $15/month dollar difference if I just add the cost to the loan. I rather just add it vs paying it for so little difference overall. Hope that makes sense lol
Gotcha. Not quite what I meant thought.

Comparing apples-to-apples,
$324,100 @ 2% = $51,310 interest + $0 closing costs = $51,310
$324,100 @ 1.875% = $47,962 int + $2,400 closing cost = $50,462

So going from 2% -> 1.875% only saves you around $900.

If you want that $900 over 15 years vs. money in your pocket today, then you consider $2,400 @ 1.875% over the 15 years ($354 I believe you calculated) and the cost the roll in the closing costs is low enough to not worry about the extra interest.

The question still remains though if you rather have money today (or 8-12 weeks from now for the Amex credits) vs. $900 over 15 years. Personally, I would pick the former, but there isn’t anything inherently wrong with the latter. It’s just not a $3k difference between the two with the way I calculate things.

That doesn’t mean though my way (count closing costs as interest) or your way (count closing costs as principal increase) is right or wrong.
Appreciate it. I’ll run all the numbers and figure it out.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

This was a message from Radian:
We are no longer an approved title company for Better Mortgage and must refer you back to Better.

Better Mortgage management has ended the relationship with RSS. It's possible that the Better employee has not yet received the memo.

Please make note of our email address: clientrelations@radian.com

Thank you,

Anyone have a different company that’s working with better? Please let me know
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Familyman2012 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:39 pm This was a message from Radian:
We are no longer an approved title company for Better Mortgage and must refer you back to Better.

Better Mortgage management has ended the relationship with RSS. It's possible that the Better employee has not yet received the memo.

Please make note of our email address: clientrelations@radian.com

Thank you,

Anyone have a different company that’s working with better? Please let me know
I would use another email address to send an email to Radian asking for a quote on a refi for the given amount and details, but NOT mention it is through Better.

I’ve gotten quotes from Radian both ways and Better has better negotiated costs. But even if that is no longer applicable, Radian is still often cheaper than many other providers.

If you can get a quote from Radian and wait to send it to Better until after your title report from the current provider arrives, then you can ask the current provider to discount to this and match vs. actually switching to Radian. I’ve done this with Better both ways, sometimes matching and sometimes using Radian.
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

insahmniak wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:38 am We locked with Better a week ago and we are moving through the process but haven't scheduled closing yet. I am also an Amex member. Too late for me to get the Amex /Better deal?
I'm also locked with Better and just cleared underwriting last Friday. I just got off the phone with my mortgage guy there and he's looking into getting me the Amex credit. He needed to discuss with management, but he thinks it's possible. He confirmed that I have have a consumer Amex credit card; the business card don't count for this promotion. I have the Delta Skymiles card and he confirmed that card will count.

For anyone looking to open a card, I would suggest Delta Skymiles given the big mileage bonus and no fee for the first year. You can always cancel the card.

I also brought up the Radian issue and he told me that I should still be good to go forward since I had a quote from Radian. He assured me that Better's in-house title team will work it out :beer

I'll keep this group posted about the Radian issue. Sounds a bit weird, TBH. My title estimate from Better went down a bit ($600 or so) ever since I mentioned the estimate from Radian, but it's still very high compared to other quotes people have posted here:

Current amounts on my loan estimate:
Title closing protection letter: $50
Title lenders insurance: $1968
Title search abstract: $100
Title settlement fee: $500
TOTAL: $2,618

:| :annoyed
apres_all_day
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apres_all_day »

Better.com just added verification of my Amex card as one of my "Tasks" as part of my refinance. It asks you to submit your Amex card number and the name of the account holder (which must match one of the names on the refinanced mortgage).

Looks like I'm getting the credit! I locked with Better early last week, so they can definitely add this step retroactively in their systems so long as you have not yet closed on the refinance.

Thanks for saving me another $2K, Bogleheads!!! :mrgreen:
skyno
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by skyno »

Question for the group:

I previously completed a very unpleasant and arduous refi with PenFed through a broker, signed closing docs on 3/31/21 and old mortgage completely paid off, and here we are in the middle of June and 3 times in the past couple weeks the broker is still urgently asking for me to sign more documents and provide more documentation claiming items that were incomplete or missed during underwriting (e.g. K1s they said they didn't need before they all of a sudden urgently need), and if I didn't do this right away the entire thing would fall implode. I am frustrated and so done with this process as I have poured countless hours into it and would love to say "not my problem", but does anybody know if they have the right to require that I do this even though all closing docs are signed and loan funded months ago?

Thanks for your insight!
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

skyno wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:11 pm Question for the group:

I previously completed a very unpleasant and arduous refi with PenFed through a broker, signed closing docs on 3/31/21 and old mortgage completely paid off, and here we are in the middle of June and 3 times in the past couple weeks the broker is still urgently asking for me to sign more documents and provide more documentation claiming items that were incomplete or missed during underwriting (e.g. K1s they said they didn't need before they all of a sudden urgently need), and if I didn't do this right away the entire thing would fall implode. I am frustrated and so done with this process as I have poured countless hours into it and would love to say "not my problem", but does anybody know if they have the right to require that I do this even though all closing docs are signed and loan funded months ago?

Thanks for your insight!
Typically there is a document included in the closing package that they may return after if they found some mistake and need to cure it. However, what they can actually do is unclear.

What is particularly odd is that PenFed is a portfolio lender, so they don’t need to meet Fannie/Freddie requirements to “sell” the loan to them. Likely, either the broker has been unable to sell the loan to PenFed and clear it off their books until the deficiencies are cured, or yours is one of the unlucky “handful” of loans PenFed sells off vs. holding. Either way though, you are funded and you’ve already turned around and given them stuff more than once. If they want more, I could understand if you tell them you want something out of it or they need to pound sand.

I will say that, generally speaking, my mortgages with PenFed (directly, not via a broker) have been the most paperwork-heavy I’ve ever had. They are a very conservative lender and for a while, had great offers beating most of the market. My purchase loan was with PenFed and all I paid for in closing costs was the $250 survey and something like $300 for the owner’s title insurance policy. PenFed picked up the tab for everything else and I still got a great rate.
skyno
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by skyno »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:27 pm
Typically there is a document included in the closing package that they may return after if they found some mistake and need to cure it. However, what they can actually do is unclear.

What is particularly odd is that PenFed is a portfolio lender, so they don’t need to meet Fannie/Freddie requirements to “sell” the loan to them. Likely, either the broker has been unable to sell the loan to PenFed and clear it off their books until the deficiencies are cured, or yours is one of the unlucky “handful” of loans PenFed sells off vs. holding. Either way though, you are funded and you’ve already turned around and given them stuff more than once. If they want more, I could understand if you tell them you want something out of it or they need to pound sand.

I will say that, generally speaking, my mortgages with PenFed (directly, not via a broker) have been the most paperwork-heavy I’ve ever had. They are a very conservative lender and for a while, had great offers beating most of the market. My purchase loan was with PenFed and all I paid for in closing costs was the $250 survey and something like $300 for the owner’s title insurance policy. PenFed picked up the tab for everything else and I still got a great rate.
Thank you for the information - very informative and interesting - based on some information included in forwarded emails, I think you correct that broker has been unable to sell the loan to PenFed and clear it off their books until the deficiencies are cured.

To your point, I am happy with the terms I got and they were the absolute best I could find at the time, so hopefully once I get through this things will be much smoother.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by maddogio »

apres_all_day wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:41 pm Better.com just added verification of my Amex card as one of my "Tasks" as part of my refinance. It asks you to submit your Amex card number and the name of the account holder (which must match one of the names on the refinanced mortgage).

Looks like I'm getting the credit! I locked with Better early last week, so they can definitely add this step retroactively in their systems so long as you have not yet closed on the refinance.

Thanks for saving me another $2K, Bogleheads!!! :mrgreen:
Thanks for posting this. I have a request into my loan officer. Hope to get the same good news soon.
seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 »

Surprisingly better.com starting offers are actually pretty competitive compared to last year.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

So the better.com offer I have available right now is:

$296k, 30 year fixed 2.75%, $938 credits. I’d should be able to get the $2000 AMEX credit ask well. It shows $2450 in closing costs, appraisal waived, but since I refi’d with Better.com last July I should be able to get a reissue rate which should hopefully save me another me another $800 or so.

Debating whether I should do it or not, I’m at 2.875%.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:37 pm So the better.com offer I have available right now is:

$296k, 30 year fixed 2.75%, $938 credits. I’d should be able to get the $2000 AMEX credit ask well. It shows $2450 in closing costs, appraisal waived, but since I refi’d with Better.com last July I should be able to get a reissue rate which should hopefully save me another me another $800 or so.

Debating whether I should do it or not, I’m at 2.875%.
A. $296k @ 29 years @ 2.875% = $140,956 interest
B. $296k @ 30 years @ 2.75% = $139,295 interest
C. $296k @ 29 years @ 2.75% (by paying over the monthly minimum) = $134,140 interest

A = $0 saved
B = $140,956 - $139,295 = $1,661 - $2,450 (closing costs) + $800 (reissue improvement) = $11 + $938 (lender credits) + $2k (Amex bonus) = $2,949 saved
C = $140,956 - $134,140 = $6,816 - $2,450 + $800 = $5,166 + $938 + $2k = $8,104 saved

Given those choices, I know which one I would pick!
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