which state to retire

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lazynovice
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Re: which state to retire

Post by lazynovice »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:54 am I'm surprised Colorado is suggested as a place to retire to. While Denver is one of my favorite places to visit during spring / summer, they seem to hit a subfreezing temperature 5~6 months out of a year. Much colder than PNW, and even PNW is cold for me.
It is a dry cold. And that is not a joke. It does not get into your bones the way a wet cold does. And there is so much more to Colorado than Denver/Boulder.

Fort Collins, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, Pueblo are all great places for retirees.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
lazynovice
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Re: which state to retire

Post by lazynovice »

BogleFan510 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:20 am Just thought of another criteria to consider. My wife and I plan to travel A LOT, in our early retirement years. Flights to and from certain regions have price and time advantages to consider. The lower cost of a business class ticket from say, NYC, and availability of direct flights vs somewhere without major services is worth considering. It may only be a few thousand per year, but some of these tax differences might not be much more if one takes 5-6 international and domestic trips a year to SA, Europe and Asia. Those tickets vary in price greatly and if near a major hub like ATL, HOU, DEN, DFW, NY, LAX, ect are quite a bit cheaper and may save half a day of exhausting travel per trip each way (worth a lot to me).
Very good point. Often overlooked.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
lazynovice
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Re: which state to retire

Post by lazynovice »

BolderBoy wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:40 pm
noco-hawkeye wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:42 am Colorado winters are better than a lot of people expect. At least the sun is out most of the time. We get occasional storms where 2ft of snow shows up, but it usually melts in a week or two with the sunny weather.
Winter here can be unpredictable. Last mid-September we got our first snow (10" where I live) but it melted quickly. I had to turn my furnace back ON the last week of May when the temp dipped into the 30s for a couple of days.
If you are willing to put up with a slightly worse winter, Wyoming would be tax friendly and less crowded.
I love Wyoming. But I know the winters can be MUCH more harsh than here along the Front Range. I-80 is commonly closed multiple times during the winter. Wyoming is primarily nice because there is no one there. It is possible to drive for hours across the plains on a Sunday morning and never see another human or automobile.
It is hard to explain how unpopulated Wyoming and Montana are.

Wyoming has a population of about 600,000. And it is an enormous state. Montana has about 1.1 million. And those people are highly concentrated in a few areas. You either love that or you hate it.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
MishkaWorries
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Re: which state to retire

Post by MishkaWorries »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:52 pm
emoore wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:39 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:06 pm
mnnice wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:41 pm
anon_investor wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:45 am

HAHA. That is like someone moving from California to anywhere else, their state income tax burden is likely going to be lower! :beer
At the expense of being argumentative. California’s income tax is more progressive than a lot of places. My state tax would go down if I kept my same income. A van by the river might be the only affordable housing though.
A nice RV down by the river? :beer

On a relevant note, I have a friend that early retired this year, and he is looking at NH for tax reasons, for personal reasons it works too since he has a lot of family in the Northeast. Since NH doesn't retirement income, his pre-401k withdrawals are not subject to any NH income tax.
I was going to suggest no state and an RV. VRBO when you want to stay in a house for a couple of months? I'm struggling with this same thing too.
I think you still have to have a state for tax purposes and a driver's license. So maybe find a way to be a tax resident of a no income tax state and live in an RV touring the country?
South Dakota is easiest state to establish a domicile. Just show up and get a license, license plate and hire a mail service. Texas and Florida are almost as easy.

** Edited to add everyone else in the world beat me to it and added more valuable information :oops:
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dodecahedron
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Re: which state to retire

Post by dodecahedron »

noco-hawkeye wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:42 am Colorado winters are better than a lot of people expect. At least the sun is out most of the time. We get occasional storms where 2ft of snow shows up, but it usually melts in a week or two with the sunny weather.
I had a friend in Colorado Springs who told me that he golfed pretty much every day year round, that even if it had snowed overnight, the snow would usually be gone from the golf course by noon, due to altitude and sun.
Marseille07
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Marseille07 »

MishkaWorries wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:33 am South Dakota is easiest state to establish a domicile. Just show up and get a license, license plate and hire a mail service. Texas and Florida are almost as easy.

** Edited to add everyone else in the world beat me to it and added more valuable information :oops:
I haven't quite understood why anyone does this though. Are there really so many RV retirees who just become SD residents then go around the country nomad-style?

If someone is expatting, I can see them doing it for SD levies no state income tax.
brokendirtdart
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Re: which state to retire

Post by brokendirtdart »

Drovor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:54 am
FandangoDave5010 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:46 am After 25 years in Northern NJ, my wife and I retired to Reno-Tahoe in Nevada in 2001. I would highly recommend this area except that we are already being overrun by thousands fleeing the San Francisco Bay Area just over the "hill."
Seems everyone says they are being overrun by Californians. 😆
They wouldn't be wrong either.

Folks from a handful of states are overrunning more rural or quiet states and instead of assimilating into their new area, they seek to change it to the same high cost, rigidly zoned, over regulated, sinking ship they just left. Often referred to as locusts or a spreading cancer.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: which state to retire

Post by RickBoglehead »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:11 am
MishkaWorries wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:33 am South Dakota is easiest state to establish a domicile. Just show up and get a license, license plate and hire a mail service. Texas and Florida are almost as easy.

** Edited to add everyone else in the world beat me to it and added more valuable information :oops:
I haven't quite understood why anyone does this though. Are there really so many RV retirees who just become SD residents then go around the country nomad-style?

If someone is expatting, I can see them doing it for SD levies no state income tax.
No income tax.
No high vehicle annual taxes.
However, if you have a home, may have higher non-resident property tax.
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reader79
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Re: which state to retire

Post by reader79 »

We love Panama City, FL (not Panama City Beach, FL --- they're separate towns). Low cost of living, great people, and excellent weather and access to the water.
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Marseille07
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Marseille07 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:58 am
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:11 am
MishkaWorries wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:33 am South Dakota is easiest state to establish a domicile. Just show up and get a license, license plate and hire a mail service. Texas and Florida are almost as easy.

** Edited to add everyone else in the world beat me to it and added more valuable information :oops:
I haven't quite understood why anyone does this though. Are there really so many RV retirees who just become SD residents then go around the country nomad-style?

If someone is expatting, I can see them doing it for SD levies no state income tax.
No income tax.
No high vehicle annual taxes.
However, if you have a home, may have higher non-resident property tax.
Right...but this whole trick seems to imply that you establish SD domicile and intend to live elsewhere (without establishing domicile - staying too long in another state might establish domicile) right?

It's probably great if they want to visit all 50 states or something, but the downside is you pretty much *have to* keep traveling to avoid establishing domicile.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: which state to retire

Post by UpperNwGuy »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:46 am It is a dry cold. And that is not a joke. It does not get into your bones the way a wet cold does. And there is so much more to Colorado than Denver/Boulder.

Fort Collins, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, Pueblo are all great places for retirees.
What's medical care like in a smaller, remote city like Grand Junction or Pueblo?
jebmke
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Re: which state to retire

Post by jebmke »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:46 am
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:54 am I'm surprised Colorado is suggested as a place to retire to. While Denver is one of my favorite places to visit during spring / summer, they seem to hit a subfreezing temperature 5~6 months out of a year. Much colder than PNW, and even PNW is cold for me.
It is a dry cold. And that is not a joke. It does not get into your bones the way a wet cold does. And there is so much more to Colorado than Denver/Boulder.

Fort Collins, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, Pueblo are all great places for retirees.
Moisture a big factor. Lived in Wisconsin for a while, we regularly went out in zero/below zero F weather. Moved to Belgium 32 degrees F with high humidity was bone-chilling.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
lazynovice
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Re: which state to retire

Post by lazynovice »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:25 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:46 am It is a dry cold. And that is not a joke. It does not get into your bones the way a wet cold does. And there is so much more to Colorado than Denver/Boulder.

Fort Collins, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, Pueblo are all great places for retirees.
What's medical care like in a smaller, remote city like Grand Junction or Pueblo?
I guess it depends on how you assess it? Both towns have Level Two trauma centers. Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Medicare

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Leapfrog

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

I think that is enough for me, but others may have different standards.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
marep
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Re: which state to retire

Post by marep »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:50 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:44 am
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:41 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:33 am
exodusNH wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:43 am

Depending on which town you're in, the property taxes aren't that bad. I have .3 acre. The property taxes are about $5,500 per year. Water and sewer are $5.50/100 cu ft (which is a lot of water). If you like to water outside, you can get a bypass meter so you're only paying the water portion which is $1.50/100 cu ft.

Car registration for new cars is generally $18 per $1000 MSRP. It drops from there. My registration for my 2019 car was $350 this year, down from $750 when I first bought it.

Other towns definitely can have higher property taxes, but those towns are easy to avoid. It's always the schools that cost money -- for me, more than 50% of my tax bill goes to the schools. There are usually abatements available for retired people.

But if you live in a modest house and drive a modest vehicle, you've basically capped your taxes. There is a 9.5% tax on prepared meals, so if you eat out a lot, you will pay that. But that's really designed as a tourist tax.

In the southern and eastern portions of the state, you're less than an hour from Boston. Winters aren't that bad -- definitely more mild than 30 years ago. Where I live, I'm 45 minutes from Boston, 45 minutes from the ocean, and 45 minutes from the mountains.
$5500/year property tax, while above the national average is a bargain coming from NYC metro area (including new and jersey, new york). I now pay 15,000. Not really worried if my vehicle reg goes up a couple hundred per year. This is a state I am considering when my spouse is ready to retire and consider moving. Tough to leave family, friends and more where I am. I too am close to beaches, major city and mountains, but at 3x the prop tax !
I think NH still has a 5% dividends and interest tax. So something to think about for folks with a large taxable account.
Still cheaper for me to move there with rates this low. Note they do not have state sales tax, no tax on pension, retirement withdrawals. And I can concentrate taxable in growth stocks (low dividend), 401k and ira in bonds, value stocks ! NH considered and declined capital gains taxation in 2019 (my current state taxes cap gains as regular income).

Good resource to get basics on state taxation ;

https://smartasset.com/retirement/new-h ... ment-taxes
Good points! Probably why my friend that just early retired is looking to move to NH.
We retired to NH from NY in 2020. FYI- they are working on phasing out the interest and dividends tax over $5000.

Property tax is high in our part of NH considering what you get for it compared to where we lived in Hudson Valley, NY. They are half of what we paid but what we live in is half of what we had in NY. But there are other towns with very low property taxes or even none at all if you like roughing it. And NH has fees for everything, but after 3 years I do believe seniors get a break on their property taxes and you can get into state parks for free- meaning no parking fee..

So- my heart was in Vermont where we had vacationed for over 22 years. We did vacation a lot in NH as well. Massachusetts and Maine. But NH, where our only child lives, was a no brainer, though we did consider other states- some south- which we are not familiar with at all except somewhat for Florida - and some out West. But what connections would we have in those places? None! And would be so far away from our adult son and from family and friends in NY and Connecticut. Not that we plan on visiting a lot but at least it would be an option (without flying) and same if they ever came out our way.

We like the four seasons. NH has no income tax, no sales tax, a political organization where we could be with like minded people, a brand new, affordable cottage we could buy in a community where we could age and in an area with lots of activities and restaurants and so forth, medical care is close by, regional airport in Manchester, Boston not too far if we need to get to a major airport, or for whatever else, gorgeous lakes and mountains, which was really what we wanted, one hour from our timeshare in the White Mountains, as I mentioned our only child lives here- not too far from us- and it is close to Vermont for visits!

Is it perfect? Of course not, but no place is. It gets crowded and noisy in our area during tourist season for one thing.

Just have to sort out in your mind the pros and cons and also listen to your heart. And I recommend a book I read: "This is Where I Belong" by Melody Warnick. This will help you love where you live or where you finally end up and stop searching for utopia.
Last edited by marep on Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jebmke
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Re: which state to retire

Post by jebmke »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:44 am I guess it depends on how you assess it? Both towns have Level Two trauma centers. Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Medicare

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Leapfrog

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

I think that is enough for me, but others may have different standards.
probably for me too (I'd add acute cardiac care also, depending on how far the ride is to a major). We have neither and the trip to the other side of the bay is a major risk during beach season (bridge traffic). Most trauma on this side of the bridge goes by chopper so there can be a long wait for the chopper then the ride. We didn't research local health care well enough and if we had it to do over would probably not have chosen our current location. Eventually we will move. In the meantime, there is always duct tape and jumper cables :annoyed .
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quantAndHold
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Re: which state to retire

Post by quantAndHold »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:11 am
MishkaWorries wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:33 am South Dakota is easiest state to establish a domicile. Just show up and get a license, license plate and hire a mail service. Texas and Florida are almost as easy.

** Edited to add everyone else in the world beat me to it and added more valuable information :oops:
I haven't quite understood why anyone does this though. Are there really so many RV retirees who just become SD residents then go around the country nomad-style?

If someone is expatting, I can see them doing it for SD levies no state income tax.
Yes, there are a *lot* of people, especially retirees, who travel around the country, following the weather nomad style, year round. And nearly all have residency in one of the three states mentioned above. We have friends who’ve had SD residency for years, who’ve only ever been there a couple of times.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
Marseille07
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Marseille07 »

quantAndHold wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:20 pm Yes, there are a *lot* of people, especially retirees, who travel around the country, following the weather nomad style, year round. And nearly all have residency in one of the three states mentioned above. We have friends who’ve had SD residency for years, who’ve only ever been there a couple of times.
That's really interesting. I know some states come after you if you stay there for too long (like, 45 days in California). They have to watch out for those things so they don't accidentally establish residency.
quantAndHold
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Re: which state to retire

Post by quantAndHold »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:24 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:20 pm Yes, there are a *lot* of people, especially retirees, who travel around the country, following the weather nomad style, year round. And nearly all have residency in one of the three states mentioned above. We have friends who’ve had SD residency for years, who’ve only ever been there a couple of times.
That's really interesting. I know some states come after you if you stay there for too long (like, 45 days in California). They have to watch out for those things so they don't accidentally establish residency.
Most of the people doing this have fairly modest means. States are unlikely to be spending a lot of effort trying to track them down to collect income taxes from them. It would cost more to track people’s comings and goings than they would collect in tax revenues.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
Bungo
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Bungo »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:24 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:20 pm Yes, there are a *lot* of people, especially retirees, who travel around the country, following the weather nomad style, year round. And nearly all have residency in one of the three states mentioned above. We have friends who’ve had SD residency for years, who’ve only ever been there a couple of times.
That's really interesting. I know some states come after you if you stay there for too long (like, 45 days in California). They have to watch out for those things so they don't accidentally establish residency.
45 days? Do you have a reference for this? I always thought the threshold was six months (or 183 days to be more precise) in any one state. The only reference I could find is the following, which only applies to people who were originally in California and still own a house there:

https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/bl ... ate-taxes/

The “Safe Harbor” Rule

For those leaving California under employment-related contracts, it is possible to break tax residency even if you are still considered domiciled in California (that is, your permanent home is in California). To do this, you would need to be outside of California under an employment-related contract for an uninterrupted period of at least 546 days (18 months). It is possible to visit the state during this time; however, no more than 45 days per calendar year can be spent in California without triggering your tax residency. Once more than 45 days are spent in California, you would be required to file resident returns again, reporting your worldwide income.
Marseille07
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Marseille07 »

Bungo wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:12 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:24 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:20 pm Yes, there are a *lot* of people, especially retirees, who travel around the country, following the weather nomad style, year round. And nearly all have residency in one of the three states mentioned above. We have friends who’ve had SD residency for years, who’ve only ever been there a couple of times.
That's really interesting. I know some states come after you if you stay there for too long (like, 45 days in California). They have to watch out for those things so they don't accidentally establish residency.
45 days? Do you have a reference for this? I always thought the threshold was six months (or 183 days to be more precise) in any one state. The only reference I could find is the following, which only applies to people who were originally in California and still own a house there:

https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/bl ... ate-taxes/

The “Safe Harbor” Rule

For those leaving California under employment-related contracts, it is possible to break tax residency even if you are still considered domiciled in California (that is, your permanent home is in California). To do this, you would need to be outside of California under an employment-related contract for an uninterrupted period of at least 546 days (18 months). It is possible to visit the state during this time; however, no more than 45 days per calendar year can be spent in California without triggering your tax residency. Once more than 45 days are spent in California, you would be required to file resident returns again, reporting your worldwide income.
That's what I was referring to. Darn, it only applies to people like me!
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anon_investor
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Re: which state to retire

Post by anon_investor »

marep wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:52 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:50 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:44 am
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:41 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:33 am

$5500/year property tax, while above the national average is a bargain coming from NYC metro area (including new and jersey, new york). I now pay 15,000. Not really worried if my vehicle reg goes up a couple hundred per year. This is a state I am considering when my spouse is ready to retire and consider moving. Tough to leave family, friends and more where I am. I too am close to beaches, major city and mountains, but at 3x the prop tax !
I think NH still has a 5% dividends and interest tax. So something to think about for folks with a large taxable account.
Still cheaper for me to move there with rates this low. Note they do not have state sales tax, no tax on pension, retirement withdrawals. And I can concentrate taxable in growth stocks (low dividend), 401k and ira in bonds, value stocks ! NH considered and declined capital gains taxation in 2019 (my current state taxes cap gains as regular income).

Good resource to get basics on state taxation ;

https://smartasset.com/retirement/new-h ... ment-taxes
Good points! Probably why my friend that just early retired is looking to move to NH.
We retired to NH from NY in 2020. FYI- they are working on phasing out the interest and dividends tax over $5000.

Property tax is high in our part of NH considering what you get for it compared to where we lived in Hudson Valley, NY. They are half of what we paid but what we live in is half of what we had in NY. But there are other towns with very low property taxes or even none at all if you like roughing it. And NH has fees for everything, but after 3 years I do believe seniors get a break on their property taxes and you can get into state parks for free- meaning no parking fee..

So- my heart was in Vermont where we had vacationed for over 22 years. We did vacation a lot in NH as well. Massachusetts and Maine. But NH, where our only child lives, was a no brainer, though we did consider other states- some south- which we are not familiar with at all except somewhat for Florida - and some out West. But what connections would we have in those places? None! And would be so far away from our adult son and from family and friends in NY and Connecticut. Not that we plan on visiting a lot but at least it would be an option (without flying) and same if they ever came out our way.

We like the four seasons. NH has no income tax, no sales tax, a political organization where we could be with like minded people, a brand new, affordable cottage we could buy in a community where we could age and in an area with lots of activities and restaurants and so forth, medical care is close by, regional airport in Manchester, Boston not too far if we need to get to a major airport, or for whatever else, gorgeous lakes and mountains, which was really what we wanted, one hour from our timeshare in the White Mountains, as I mentioned our only child lives here- not too far from us- and it is close to Vermont for visits!

Is it perfect? Of course not, but no place is. It gets crowded and noisy in our area during tourist season for one thing.

Just have to sort out in your mind the pros and cons and also listen to your heart. And I recommend a book I read: "This is Where I Belong" by Melody Warnick. This will help you love where you live or where you finally end up and stop searching for utopia.
Thank you for sharing. The family aspect probably was a big driver for you and your spouse. I think that may end up being the case for many people.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: which state to retire

Post by UpperNwGuy »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:44 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:25 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:46 am It is a dry cold. And that is not a joke. It does not get into your bones the way a wet cold does. And there is so much more to Colorado than Denver/Boulder.

Fort Collins, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, Pueblo are all great places for retirees.
What's medical care like in a smaller, remote city like Grand Junction or Pueblo?
I guess it depends on how you assess it? Both towns have Level Two trauma centers. Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Medicare

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Leapfrog

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

I think that is enough for me, but others may have different standards.
I was thinking not only of emergency services for such things as heart attack, stroke, broken bones, COVID-19, etc., but also for medical situations requiring ongoing care such as chemotherapy, radiation, kidney dialysis, etc.
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LilyFleur
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Re: which state to retire

Post by LilyFleur »

yes, and how far you have to drive to get to the care you need.

One of my siblings lives 2.5 hours from the eye hospital that she needs to visit. She will need to visit it more as she ages, and if she cannot drive and becomes a widow, that will be difficult.
lazynovice
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Re: which state to retire

Post by lazynovice »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:14 pm
lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:44 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:25 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:46 am It is a dry cold. And that is not a joke. It does not get into your bones the way a wet cold does. And there is so much more to Colorado than Denver/Boulder.

Fort Collins, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, Pueblo are all great places for retirees.
What's medical care like in a smaller, remote city like Grand Junction or Pueblo?
I guess it depends on how you assess it? Both towns have Level Two trauma centers. Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Medicare

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/r ... rt=closest

Both have hospitals that are rated highly by Leapfrog

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/sea ... &hospital=

I think that is enough for me, but others may have different standards.
I was thinking not only of emergency services for such things as heart attack, stroke, broken bones, COVID-19, etc., but also for medical situations requiring ongoing care such as chemotherapy, radiation, kidney dialysis, etc.
You’d have to do a little digging on specific services but yes, both have multiple radiation oncology, chemotherapy and dialysis sites. I doubt there is a lot of access to clinical trials and there are no transplant programs that I am aware of.
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Mr.BB
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Mr.BB »

calwatch wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:16 pm
Mr.BB wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:45 pm
calwatch wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:56 pm And Hawaii has a very generous defined benefit pension exemption, including the employer share of 401k (457, 403b) matching contributions if said share is separated out as an employer contribution (which it often is, for purposes of calculating whether the employer share has vested). So if most of your income came from a defined benefit pension (including plans where there is a nonelective employee contribution, like a 401(a)), you would pay very low income tax in Hawaii. https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/legal/tir/ ... ir96-5.pdf
Looks like that data is almost 20 yrs. old. Would like to see something more updated.
This is the detailed reference from the Hawaii income tax return instructions, page 14. https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/forms/2020/n11ins.pdf
Sorry... I was commenting on the money/ CNN/taxes PDF link. Not sure why my comment ended up on your link.
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VanGar+Goyle
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Re: which state to retire

Post by VanGar+Goyle »

And there will never be a Target or Costco in that town and probably a bunch of other stores that the Wal-Mart family doesn’t want in their little city, at least as long as Wal-Mart is around.
A Target is 3 miles south of Bentonville. Must be galling to the Waltons.
[Political comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]
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newventurer
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Re: which state to retire

Post by newventurer »

VanGar+Goyle wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:45 am
And there will never be a Target or Costco in that town and probably a bunch of other stores that the Wal-Mart family doesn’t want in their little city, at least as long as Wal-Mart is around.
A Target is 3 miles south of Bentonville. Must be galling to the Waltons.
[Political comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]
Yup, I think it’s likely that WalMart will be around at least one day longer than Costco & Target, and not likely to happen in the OP’s lifetime :), [Political comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]
Ramjet
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Ramjet »

jebmke wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:37 pm Also lived in Cleveland (twice). East side vs. west side for snow are completely different.
Which side did you prefer
VT & HFEA
Flyer24
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Flyer24 »

An off-topic political post was removed.
ScubaHogg
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Re: which state to retire

Post by ScubaHogg »

newventurer wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:54 pm Look into NW Arkansas, don’t poopoo it till you visit, great outdoors activity - thanks mostly to Walton family money, if you are a bicyclist you already know about the many miles of world class trails, art your thing - look up Crystal Bridges (Alice Walton pet project) for living look into Bella Vista (1/3 acre wooded lots homes still in the mid to upper $200’s, lakes and golf courses) or Bentonville for better walking scores, restaurants, culture. NW Arkansas is not like most parts of Arkansas, intentionally developed to attract couples/families for WalMart/Vendor employment

+1. People have pretty strong preconceived, and largely uninformed, notions about “Arkansas.” But there is a reason NW Arkansas has been one of the faster growing areas of the country for several decades and why it consistently makes “best places to live list.” The joke is people come kicking and screaming and then never leave.

If you can keep an open mind it’s worth investigating
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jebmke
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Re: which state to retire

Post by jebmke »

Ramjet wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:44 am
jebmke wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:37 pm Also lived in Cleveland (twice). East side vs. west side for snow are completely different.
Which side did you prefer
I preferred the east side despite the snow. Partly due to where my job was at the time but also where friends lived. But, Cleveland has a lot of nice green space all around the city so there are some very good areas on both sides as well as the southern stretch.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
exodusNH
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Re: which state to retire

Post by exodusNH »

beyou wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:33 am $5500/year property tax, while above the national average is a bargain coming from NYC metro area (including new and jersey, new york). I now pay 15,000. Not really worried if my vehicle reg goes up a couple hundred per year. This is a state I am considering when my spouse is ready to retire and consider moving. Tough to leave family, friends and more where I am. I too am close to beaches, major city and mountains, but at 3x the prop tax !
But as of right now, the $5,500 + vehicle registration is the extent of my tax burden to the state of NH. While other states may have lower property taxes, I believe the total tax burden is lower as there are no sales or income taxes. I can choose how much in taxes I pay by not buying a new car every two years or continually buying a bigger house. It's one of the reasons I prefer property over other taxes. The values are generally stable AND the state doesn't get a raise every year, which just expands spending with no thought of how to reel that in during recessions. (c.f. Massachusetts.)

Of course, on the downside, if you lose your job, the most you can hope for is $~420/week in unemployment benefits. (That wouldn't even cover PITI for my house.) Other social services are similarly limited.
tibbitts
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Re: which state to retire

Post by tibbitts »

BolderBoy wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:17 pm
FrugalProfessor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:54 pmYou can establish residency in SD in less than 24 hours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWc1xlNZDAY. You just need a receipt from a hotel/campground to prove that you've spent one night there. The following day, you walk out of the DMV with:

* SD Driver's license
* SD Plates
* SD Voting registration

Pay a few bucks a month for mail forwarding and you're good to go. SD apparently has some of the cheapest car insurance rates in the country.
My Montana buddy snowbirds down to Winterhaven, CA (near Yuma, AZ). He tells me that 1/2 the other snowbirds he sees are driving autos/RVs with SD plates yet "live" in other states.
Car insurance is based on where the car is kept (its "residence"), not where your residence is (unfortunately for my one car.) Of course you can claim anything you want, and probably if you never have a claim that might not be an issue.
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beyou
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Re: which state to retire

Post by beyou »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:50 am
BolderBoy wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:17 pm
FrugalProfessor wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:54 pmYou can establish residency in SD in less than 24 hours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWc1xlNZDAY. You just need a receipt from a hotel/campground to prove that you've spent one night there. The following day, you walk out of the DMV with:

* SD Driver's license
* SD Plates
* SD Voting registration

Pay a few bucks a month for mail forwarding and you're good to go. SD apparently has some of the cheapest car insurance rates in the country.
My Montana buddy snowbirds down to Winterhaven, CA (near Yuma, AZ). He tells me that 1/2 the other snowbirds he sees are driving autos/RVs with SD plates yet "live" in other states.
Car insurance is based on where the car is kept (its "residence"), not where your residence is (unfortunately for my one car.) Of course you can claim anything you want, and probably if you never have a claim that might not be an issue.
My adult child moved to a new state for work. While I considered the option of keeping him (temporarily) on our family auto policy, while
shopping around for his own, the new state made it very hard to do that. His city issued parking permits only to vehicles registered in-state, and also to register the car there you need to have their drivers license. I am sure there will be other circumstances where the state you actually live will need to see proof of local residence, and a drivers license is most commonly used for such proof, along with utility bills that have the same address. So can you get an electric bill for your PO box in SD ?
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beyou
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Re: which state to retire

Post by beyou »

exodusNH wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:21 am
beyou wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:33 am $5500/year property tax, while above the national average is a bargain coming from NYC metro area (including new and jersey, new york). I now pay 15,000. Not really worried if my vehicle reg goes up a couple hundred per year. This is a state I am considering when my spouse is ready to retire and consider moving. Tough to leave family, friends and more where I am. I too am close to beaches, major city and mountains, but at 3x the prop tax !
But as of right now, the $5,500 + vehicle registration is the extent of my tax burden to the state of NH. While other states may have lower property taxes, I believe the total tax burden is lower as there are no sales or income taxes. I can choose how much in taxes I pay by not buying a new car every two years or continually buying a bigger house. It's one of the reasons I prefer property over other taxes. The values are generally stable AND the state doesn't get a raise every year, which just expands spending with no thought of how to reel that in during recessions. (c.f. Massachusetts.)

Of course, on the downside, if you lose your job, the most you can hope for is $~420/week in unemployment benefits. (That wouldn't even cover PITI for my house.) Other social services are similarly limited.
Yes, and the superior social services in my HCOL state are something that may factor into my decision.
Personally if I was starting a family and planned to send my kids to college, New York has one of the best deals in higher education due to our high taxes.
For retirees, I am not sure what social services I may need, but whatever they are, I would assume poorly funded in any low tax state.
And I do have one kid who needs and is applying soon for a social service that is funded better in HCOL high tax states, something he would give up
if he relocated with us to NH. Maybe the tax savings would offset, but the point is you don't get something for nothing and therefore my decisions are purely based on WHERE I WANT TO LIVE. NH is a beautiful place where I love to visit for hiking, would love to live there anyway. But there are other factors such as family nearby ( child in MA for me) and social services (another child who might be better off in MA or NY for that reason).
Topic Author
rramaswa
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Re: which state to retire

Post by rramaswa »

Thank You Bogleheads

I am 61 years old, single and would like to do Roth Conversions before RMD starts
I live in New Jersey with not such favorable tax situation
I do not like long winters and have issues with spring allergies
I do not like hot and humid weather either
I know I have too many restrictions.
I am hoping this group can provide some good insights on
1) Snow bird ideas for Florida with a home in the north. This way I can file my taxes as a Florida resident
2) what are the rules on taxes if I live abroad for more than six months. I have family in Goa, India
3) Any other states that can provide no state tax, low property tax with good weather
Topic Author
rramaswa
Posts: 33
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Re: which state to retire

Post by rramaswa »

Thank You Bogleheads

I am 61 years old, single and would like to do Roth Conversions before RMD starts
I live in New Jersey with not such favorable tax situation
I do not like long winters and have issues with spring allergies
I do not like hot and humid weather either
I know I have too many restrictions.
I am hoping this group can provide some good insights on
1) Snow bird ideas for Florida with a home in the north. This way I can file my taxes as a Florida resident
2) what are the rules on taxes if I live abroad for more than six months. I have family in Goa, India
3) Any other states that can provide no state tax, low property tax with good weather
Tib
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Tib »

rramaswa, Nevada has no income tax and low property taxes. Las Vegas has very hot but very dry summers; Reno has nice summers but chilly (though moderate) winters. Nevada probably comes closer than other states to meeting the criteria you listed.
manatee2005
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Re: which state to retire

Post by manatee2005 »

Definitely not Texas because all my exes live in Texas.
manatee2005
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Re: which state to retire

Post by manatee2005 »

Ramjet wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:44 am
jebmke wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:37 pm Also lived in Cleveland (twice). East side vs. west side for snow are completely different.
Which side did you prefer
I think it’s a moot question because nobody should retire in Cleveland.
manatee2005
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Re: which state to retire

Post by manatee2005 »

ScubaHogg wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:01 am
newventurer wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:54 pm Look into NW Arkansas, don’t poopoo it till you visit, great outdoors activity - thanks mostly to Walton family money, if you are a bicyclist you already know about the many miles of world class trails, art your thing - look up Crystal Bridges (Alice Walton pet project) for living look into Bella Vista (1/3 acre wooded lots homes still in the mid to upper $200’s, lakes and golf courses) or Bentonville for better walking scores, restaurants, culture. NW Arkansas is not like most parts of Arkansas, intentionally developed to attract couples/families for WalMart/Vendor employment

+1. People have pretty strong preconceived, and largely uninformed, notions about “Arkansas.” But there is a reason NW Arkansas has been one of the faster growing areas of the country for several decades and why it consistently makes “best places to live list.” The joke is people come kicking and screaming and then never leave.

If you can keep an open mind it’s worth investigating
I’ll be in NWA in a few weeks, any suggestions on things to see? I was thinking of going to Ozarks too.
manatee2005
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Re: which state to retire

Post by manatee2005 »

rramaswa wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:48 pm Hello Bogleheads !

I retired this year! I live in NJ. I am single.
I have been in this state since 1990. NJ is expensive state with high property taxes. I do not like the weather conditions given 6 months of cold weather, spring seasons are allergy season for me and summers are hot and humid.

Although Florida is a great state from tax perspective for retirees I find the humid weather not good for me.

I am looking at Colorado as a potential state. I am not sure if this state is retiree friendly for taxes and its cost of living.
From my research online I did see this state appears to have high scores for retirees.
Did I miss any other states that could be a good fit 1) mild weather 2) low crime rate 3) low/moderate cost of living 4) liberal organic living with focus on wellness 5) good health care 6) tax friendly

I am hoping this forum can provide some guidance
Thank you
I ran all 6 through criteria through my super computer and came up with Chapel Hill,NC
Last edited by manatee2005 on Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marseille07
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Re: which state to retire

Post by Marseille07 »

rramaswa wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:22 pm Thank You Bogleheads

I am 61 years old, single and would like to do Roth Conversions before RMD starts
I live in New Jersey with not such favorable tax situation
I do not like long winters and have issues with spring allergies
I do not like hot and humid weather either
I know I have too many restrictions.
I am hoping this group can provide some good insights on
1) Snow bird ideas for Florida with a home in the north. This way I can file my taxes as a Florida resident
2) what are the rules on taxes if I live abroad for more than six months. I have family in Goa, India
3) Any other states that can provide no state tax, low property tax with good weather
1) If you don't like humidity then Florida is off the table. Find another no-income-tax state.
2) If you're in a no-income-tax state, you just file Federal and call it a day.
3) Yes, there are 8 no-income-tax states. Given what you mentioned, your choices are Nevada, Washington State or Tennessee. You should check out others if curious, an easy search on google.
tibbitts
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Re: which state to retire

Post by tibbitts »

rramaswa wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:22 pm 1) Snow bird ideas for Florida with a home in the north. This way I can file my taxes as a Florida resident
I own homes in Florida and in a state with an income tax. You can't just declare yourself to be a Florida (or some other no-income-tax state) resident because you own property there; you have to actually make your primary residence in Florida. Being a snowbird in the traditional sense - I've spent three winter months at my Florida residence for example - isn't sufficient to make me a Florida resident again (I used to be one.) I might choose to be a Florida resident again in the future, but there are requirements to meet beyond just owning property. If there weren't, everybody would "live" in a no-income-tax state.
manatee2005
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Re: which state to retire

Post by manatee2005 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:19 pm
rramaswa wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:22 pm 1) Snow bird ideas for Florida with a home in the north. This way I can file my taxes as a Florida resident
I own homes in Florida and in a state with an income tax. You can't just declare yourself to be a Florida (or some other no-income-tax state) resident because you own property there; you have to actually make your primary residence in Florida. Being a snowbird in the traditional sense - I've spent three winter months at my Florida residence for example - isn't sufficient to make me a Florida resident again (I used to be one.) I might choose to be a Florida resident again in the future, but there are requirements to meet beyond just owning property. If there weren't, everybody would "live" in a no-income-tax state.
Check South Dakota
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: which state to retire

Post by oldcomputerguy »

A couple of political comments were removed. As a reminder, see Politics and Religion:
In order to avoid the inevitable frictions that arise from these topics, political or religious posts and comments are prohibited.
The OP is looking for advice on a state to which to retire. Please avoid discussions of in which political directions the suggested areas lean.
lakpr
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Re: which state to retire

Post by lakpr »

rramaswa wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:40 pm 2) what are the rules on taxes if I live abroad for more than six months. I have family in Goa, India
On this particular point, note that you will be deemed a resident of India for taxation purposes, if you spend more than 120 days (NOT 183 days!) during a fiscal year in India. India's fiscal year starts on October 1st and ends on September 30th -- out of sync with the US.

India taxes her residents on their global income, not only on income attributable to sources in India.
Additionally, India can view your Roth withdrawals as taxable income, the India-US Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA) provides India the authority to tax such withdrawals since the US does not tax them.
mkc
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Re: which state to retire

Post by mkc »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:19 pm
rramaswa wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:22 pm 1) Snow bird ideas for Florida with a home in the north. This way I can file my taxes as a Florida resident
I own homes in Florida and in a state with an income tax. You can't just declare yourself to be a Florida (or some other no-income-tax state) resident because you own property there; you have to actually make your primary residence in Florida.
tibbitts rramaswa (sorry about the mis-identification of the poster my comment was directed to) would be well-advised to research residency rules for the northern state in which he/she wishes to retain a home as well. Some, like CT, NY, etc. will consider you a part-year resident and require you to pay taxes if you reside there more than a certain number of days per year, even if you have domiciled elsewhere.
Last edited by mkc on Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SouthernInvestor
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Re: which state to retire

Post by SouthernInvestor »

I would be careful about Florida.

Property tax, property insurance, auto insurance are all brutal.

If you are by the water, be very mindful of home insurance; our now sold home in Florida was as expensive to insure (and it was pretty underinsured) as the property tax. Also, between sun and salty humid air, home maintenance was very high. I’ve never painted a house so frequently in my life as in south Florida.

If you look at TN- Nashville metro, stay out of Davidson county.

If you want to travel, I would look at Chattanooga which has a great downtown and is within striking distance of Atlanta airport.

Only high tax in TN is sales tax but it’s a flat tax and one you gave a good deal of control over..
tibbitts
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Re: which state to retire

Post by tibbitts »

mkc wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:02 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:19 pm
rramaswa wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:22 pm 1) Snow bird ideas for Florida with a home in the north. This way I can file my taxes as a Florida resident
I own homes in Florida and in a state with an income tax. You can't just declare yourself to be a Florida (or some other no-income-tax state) resident because you own property there; you have to actually make your primary residence in Florida.
tibbitts would be well-advised to research residency rules for the northern state in which he/she wishes to retain a home as well. Some, like CT, NY, etc. will consider you a part-year resident and require you to pay taxes if you reside there more than a certain number of days per year, even if you have domiciled elsewhere.
If you mean for myself, my point was that I'm a resident and pay full-year income taxes in another state, not Florida. My point was that typical snowbird activity generally doesn't qualify you to stop paying income taxes in another state. It doesn't qualify you for homestead property tax exemption in Florida, either, which costs me thousands of dollars every year. When my primary residence was Florida, I didn't own property in any other state.
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