Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

Need some help evaluating a job offer:

Current Job TC = 179k, which includes following:
Salary - 139k
Bonus - 24k
401k Match - 8.5k
Pension contribution - 7.5k
Benefits - Doesn't matter as I get from spouse
Role type - Individual contributor, Full Time, Perm Role with Fortune 100 Company, Good people but crazy workload at times
Vacation days - 25 (paid)
Commute - 2 days in office, 50 mins drive 1 way
Time spent - Close to 4 years
Risk factors - May never be able to get senior leadership role. My year increments are between 1-2% (ridiculous!). If the company does bad, there may not be any bonuses at all. Company has history of lay offs every 5-7 years

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Job
Hourly rate - 120$ per hour, Overtime rate - 180$ per hour (there's a great potential for Overtime)
Bonus - 0
401k Match - 3k
Pension contribution - 0
Benefits - Doesn't matter as I get from spouse
Role Type - Senior Leadership role, Contract to hire after 6 months, then title would be VP and Salary/Bonus/Stock options would be equivalent. Contract W2 role with staffing agency with Fortune 500 company with great Stock market run.
Commute - 100% remote
Vacation days - 5 (paid), I can take unpaid vacation as much as I want
Risk factors - Contract may end in 6 months and they may not hire me for perm role as they agreed. Chances of that happening are less than 10% as per the history
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other notes:
I am 43, in great health and spirits. Net worth is about 1.6M. Spouse has Full time income of about 135k. I have experience, skills and confident to switch jobs whenever needed. I work very hard and usually end up in top 5% of the employees where I go. I enjoy coming out of comfort zone.


Let me know what you folks think. It's very important decision for us for sure and any thoughts/recommendations/optimizations would be appreciated!
Last edited by hustler on Sat May 15, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
livesoft
Posts: 76668
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by livesoft »

Money is not a criteria I would use. What would make you happier and give you time affluence? Don't tell me more money would make you happier.

What is the difference in commute times? Travel to places you don't care about times? Travel to places you do care option? Which one appeals to your positive character strengths?
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
jebmke
Posts: 12911
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by jebmke »

I did everything I could to avoid using money or title in making job choices.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
Normchad
Posts: 2538
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by Normchad »

I wouldn’t take it as contract to perm.....

I love staffing agencies, I use them all the time for hiring. But they are a middle man, and if you use, you are taking a risk.

My concern would be, are they telling you the truth? There are a lot of unscrupulous placement companies out there. That VP job might not really be there.

I’ve never used an agency to fill a senior position. And I’be just never heard of anybody else doing it either. But your industry might be different.

At the end of the day, I want a commitment from the employer. “Try before you buy” can be fine, but it is a risk for you. They can cut you loose with zero notice.....
khram
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:36 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by khram »

Contract to hire for VP? Sounds like you have enough money to do whatever you want. 5 vacation days doesn't sound very good.

Can you actually take vacation (even unpaid) from new offer in practice? My last boss was pretty highly ranked and could never take time off. Even when he officially took 1 day off, he'd still end up spending half the day in meetings. Forget about taking a full week off, ever.

Maybe you're okay with that, if you're considering going from IC to sr. leader. I like being an IC who can go disappear for 2 weeks and actually disappear. No phone contact, no chat apps on my phone for people to message me, etc.
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 6752
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by RickBoglehead »

Normchad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:50 pm

I’ve never used an agency to fill a senior position. And I’be just never heard of anybody else doing it either.
This. Never heard of this. No way would I consider this.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
runner3081
Posts: 4240
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by runner3081 »

You mentioned plenty of overtime in the new job. How many hours per week do you work now? Will there be more in the new job?

Personally, I would not do a temp to hire type position while you are in a regular full-time position currently.
123
Posts: 7415
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by 123 »

How plentiful are jobs you are suitable for in your area? While in some areas/trades staffing agencies are used as a mechanism to try out potential employees I think you pretty much have to dismiss most of the promises they may make regardless. Does the firm they want to place you with do direct hire or are all outside hires through staffing agencies?

I don't think a staffing agency placement will lead to a further executive position though it could lead to a supervisory role over the position you entered as.

I'd agree with the comment above that the move to a contracted position is a stepdown from your current fulltime position and that perhaps someone is not recognizing your real worth (including yourself).
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
fortunefavored
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by fortunefavored »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:56 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:50 pm

I’ve never used an agency to fill a senior position. And I’be just never heard of anybody else doing it either.
This. Never heard of this. No way would I consider this.
Me either (direct experience with ~5 publicly held companies) - sounds super fishy to me.

If you want a new job, go apply for new jobs.. don't take this shady deal. If you're qualified for a "VP" role, you can work with legitimate executive recruiters.
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

livesoft wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:41 pm Money is not a criteria I would use. What would make you happier and give you time affluence? Don't tell me more money would make you happier.

What is the difference in commute times? Travel to places you don't care about times? Travel to places you do care option? Which one appeals to your positive character strengths?
Got your point & I won't tell more money would make me happier (tough!)

Not sure about the workload in new job, but the colleague who is doing it tells me that its not too bad as it's mostly meetings. My current job is full time and it feels like there is never ending work there

2 days in office commute for current job (50 mins drive one way) where as new job is 100% remote.

Being leadership title and work will help me positively for my side hustle and personal well being
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 22696
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by Watty »

hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:34 pm ......they may not hire me for perm role as they agreed.
If you do not get hired then how hard would it be for you to find another job like the one you have today?
hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:34 pm My year increments are between 1-2% (ridiculous!).
Before I retired I worked as a software developer in Corporate IT for all of my career.

In a job like that it is pretty typical for people to hit the top of their salary band by the time they were in their 30s. After that you were doing good to keep up with inflation unless you got a promotion to a position with more responsibility. Many technical people, including myself, did not have the right personality or desire to get into management so they might stay at the same senior technical staff level positions for the rest of their career.

The pay was still good it was just that were already getting as much pay as the position would justify.

The big question is if you have maxed out the pay potential of your current position. If so 1 to 2 percent raises may not be all that ridiculous and the only way to get more would be to get a promotion.
hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:34 pm Pension contribution - 7.5k
...
Time spent - Close to 4 years
How much of your pension is vested?

I don't what the current rules are but if you have a 5 year cliff vesting period then you could be walking away from $30K+ in pension money if you left that job today.
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

Normchad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:50 pm I wouldn’t take it as contract to perm.....

I love staffing agencies, I use them all the time for hiring. But they are a middle man, and if you use, you are taking a risk.

My concern would be, are they telling you the truth? There are a lot of unscrupulous placement companies out there. That VP job might not really be there.

I’ve never used an agency to fill a senior position. And I’be just never heard of anybody else doing it either. But your industry might be different.

At the end of the day, I want a commitment from the employer. “Try before you buy” can be fine, but it is a risk for you. They can cut you loose with zero notice.....
Good point!

Staffing agency is highly reputed in NY area and also a very large firm. Nobody was pushy and they answered all the questions to best of their ability. End client company is in fortune 500 and also part on S&P. They use VP title frequently, so it's perhaps not much of a novelty in their company.

They can totally cut me loose with zero notice, but then no full time job has 0 risk either
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

runner3081 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:56 pm You mentioned plenty of overtime in the new job. How many hours per week do you work now? Will there be more in the new job?

Personally, I would not do a temp to hire type position while you are in a regular full-time position currently.
May be 3-4 Overtime hours each week, if I sign up for it. Current job is 40 hours per week

Understand, many would not go for temp to hire position over regular full time. In my case I have some safety net + I feel confident of finding other job if needed. There r plenty of opening for my skillset, worse situation is that I may have to compromise on the compensation for a short period
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

khram wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:52 pm Contract to hire for VP? Sounds like you have enough money to do whatever you want. 5 vacation days doesn't sound very good.

Can you actually take vacation (even unpaid) from new offer in practice? My last boss was pretty highly ranked and could never take time off. Even when he officially took 1 day off, he'd still end up spending half the day in meetings. Forget about taking a full week off, ever.

Maybe you're okay with that, if you're considering going from IC to sr. leader. I like being an IC who can go disappear for 2 weeks and actually disappear. No phone contact, no chat apps on my phone for people to message me, etc.
Really good point here, in my current job I can take time off whenever I want. In new job, I am not sure how that really goes!
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

123 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:07 pm How plentiful are jobs you are suitable for in your area? While in some areas/trades staffing agencies are used as a mechanism to try out potential employees I think you pretty much have to dismiss most of the promises they may make regardless. Does the firm they want to place you with do direct hire or are all outside hires through staffing agencies?

I don't think a staffing agency placement will lead to a further executive position though it could lead to a supervisory role over the position you entered as.

I'd agree with the comment above that the move to a contracted position is a stepdown from your current fulltime position and that perhaps someone is not recognizing your real worth (including yourself).
I corporate world, sometime you get treated like a s*it, for various reasons. worse is when, you get 100% positive feedbacks year after year but you find yourself at the very same stage even after 5 years. My TC moved up by 11k in 5 years and my title hasn't changed at all. When asked for promotion, there is absolutely nothing in the sight.
fortunefavored
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by fortunefavored »

hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:55 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:50 pm I wouldn’t take it as contract to perm.....

I love staffing agencies, I use them all the time for hiring. But they are a middle man, and if you use, you are taking a risk.

My concern would be, are they telling you the truth? There are a lot of unscrupulous placement companies out there. That VP job might not really be there.

I’ve never used an agency to fill a senior position. And I’be just never heard of anybody else doing it either. But your industry might be different.

At the end of the day, I want a commitment from the employer. “Try before you buy” can be fine, but it is a risk for you. They can cut you loose with zero notice.....
Good point!

Staffing agency is highly reputed in NY area and also a very large firm. Nobody was pushy and they answered all the questions to best of their ability. End client company is in fortune 500 and also part on S&P. They use VP title frequently, so it's perhaps not much of a novelty in their company.

They can totally cut me loose with zero notice, but then no full time job has 0 risk either
Ahhh! Is this a bank? "VP" does not mean "VP" in banks.. everyone is a VP, even a line level branch manager.

You really need to get out in the market and see what you are worth.
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

Watty wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:53 pm
hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:34 pm ......they may not hire me for perm role as they agreed.
If you do not get hired then how hard would it be for you to find another job like the one you have today?
hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:34 pm My year increments are between 1-2% (ridiculous!).
Before I retired I worked as a software developer in Corporate IT for all of my career.

In a job like that it is pretty typical for people to hit the top of their salary band by the time they were in their 30s. After that you were doing good to keep up with inflation unless you got a promotion to a position with more responsibility. Many technical people, including myself, did not have the right personality or desire to get into management so they might stay at the same senior technical staff level positions for the rest of their career.

The pay was still good it was just that were already getting as much pay as the position would justify.

The big question is if you have maxed out the pay potential of your current position. If so 1 to 2 percent raises may not be all that ridiculous and the only way to get more would be to get a promotion.
hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:34 pm Pension contribution - 7.5k
...
Time spent - Close to 4 years


How much of your pension is vested?

I don't what the current rules are but if you have a 5 year cliff vesting period then you could be walking away from $30K+ in pension money if you left that job today.

Thanks for your response and thoughts!

I would be able to get something similar to my current job in 1 to 3 months!

Promotion is kind of eluding me a lot, after I matched my all promotion criteria, they told me that they are changing the criteria. In america, you can be denied for promotion for 'various' reasons and I am not going to to in there ...

Pension and 401k all vested 100%, it's all mine!
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

fortunefavored wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:15 pm
hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:55 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:50 pm I wouldn’t take it as contract to perm.....

I love staffing agencies, I use them all the time for hiring. But they are a middle man, and if you use, you are taking a risk.

My concern would be, are they telling you the truth? There are a lot of unscrupulous placement companies out there. That VP job might not really be there.

I’ve never used an agency to fill a senior position. And I’be just never heard of anybody else doing it either. But your industry might be different.

At the end of the day, I want a commitment from the employer. “Try before you buy” can be fine, but it is a risk for you. They can cut you loose with zero notice.....
Good point!

Staffing agency is highly reputed in NY area and also a very large firm. Nobody was pushy and they answered all the questions to best of their ability. End client company is in fortune 500 and also part on S&P. They use VP title frequently, so it's perhaps not much of a novelty in their company.

They can totally cut me loose with zero notice, but then no full time job has 0 risk either
Ahhh! Is this a bank? "VP" does not mean "VP" in banks.. everyone is a VP, even a line level branch manager.

You really need to get out in the market and see what you are worth.
I thought 120$ per hour may be a good start, may be more u think?
fortunefavored
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by fortunefavored »

hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:26 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:15 pm
hustler wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:55 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:50 pm I wouldn’t take it as contract to perm.....

I love staffing agencies, I use them all the time for hiring. But they are a middle man, and if you use, you are taking a risk.

My concern would be, are they telling you the truth? There are a lot of unscrupulous placement companies out there. That VP job might not really be there.

I’ve never used an agency to fill a senior position. And I’be just never heard of anybody else doing it either. But your industry might be different.

At the end of the day, I want a commitment from the employer. “Try before you buy” can be fine, but it is a risk for you. They can cut you loose with zero notice.....
Good point!

Staffing agency is highly reputed in NY area and also a very large firm. Nobody was pushy and they answered all the questions to best of their ability. End client company is in fortune 500 and also part on S&P. They use VP title frequently, so it's perhaps not much of a novelty in their company.

They can totally cut me loose with zero notice, but then no full time job has 0 risk either
Ahhh! Is this a bank? "VP" does not mean "VP" in banks.. everyone is a VP, even a line level branch manager.

You really need to get out in the market and see what you are worth.
I thought 120$ per hour may be a good start, may be more u think?
You cannot compare a contract rate to a FTE rate.. typically I would discount a contract rate by 50% to compare it to an FTE rate.

If you're not experienced in the contract world, you're really negotiating from a disadvantage.
Nyc10036
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by Nyc10036 »

Your current pay per hour is $95.21

I took your compensation and divided by 40 hours/week x 47 weeks.

Even though you don't get your health insurance through your employer that benefit is there and is worth some money as well.
You know what it is worth if you have to buy it through COBRA.

For a contract job and the risk that comes with it and for it to be a "promotion", the hourly rate needs to be $200.
Topic Author
hustler
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:46 am

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by hustler »

Nyc10036 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:02 pm Your current pay per hour is $95.21

I took your compensation and divided by 40 hours/week x 47 weeks.

Even though you don't get your health insurance through your employer that benefit is there and is worth some money as well.
You know what it is worth if you have to buy it through COBRA.

For a contract job and the risk that comes with it and for it to be a "promotion", the hourly rate needs to be $200.
Thanks, the thoughts mentioned by you and others are truly eye opener for sure!I am going to dig this bit deeper
runner3081
Posts: 4240
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by runner3081 »

Nyc10036 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:02 pm Your current pay per hour is $95.21

I took your compensation and divided by 40 hours/week x 47 weeks.

Even though you don't get your health insurance through your employer that benefit is there and is worth some money as well.
You know what it is worth if you have to buy it through COBRA.

For a contract job and the risk that comes with it and for it to be a "promotion", the hourly rate needs to be $200.
I think your hourly rate calculation is not the standard.

It is actual annual earnings, divided by 2080.

Base Salary - $66.82 per hour
Base w/Bonus - $78.36 per hour
User avatar
ClevrChico
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Decision to make- Should I take up the new gig?

Post by ClevrChico »

"Contract to Hire" is a fancy term for a "Temp Job".

The stars would have to perfectly align for you to convert to a perm employee in only six months. It's far more likely that either your contract will end or you'll remain a contractor for years.

Staffing agencies do not have your best interests in mind. If your career isn't growing, find a better permanent job.
Post Reply