What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
SnowBog
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by SnowBog »

billthecat wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:59 pm
SnowBog wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:22 am
billthecat wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:33 pm
SnowBog wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:23 pm For someone single, they basically need to figure out if they'll live longer or shorter than the average estimate. Someone in bad health probably should claim early, as they might not live long enough to hit the "average". For others, it's more subjective.
Given the same level of contributions, women get more social security benefits than men because, on average, they live longer. So is being male like having bad health? Meaning, should men claim social security sooner just by virtue of being male?
Perhaps...

But if married, it's also common that the husband had higher SS earnings, and thus even if they die before "their" breakeven point on delayed SS, the surviving spouse likely comes out ahead (as you noted, the wife tends to live longer).

However, if you were a Meatloaf (singer) fan and are "praying for the end of time..."
What about if not married?
What's more important to you?

Getting the "most" out of social security, especially if your are concerned you might not make it to the "average" life span? If so, claiming early might be an advantage, as we aren't guaranteed a tomorrow...

But if your most concerned with "not running out of money", especially if you happen to live longer than the "average" life span? If so, delaying is probably better...

However, there's "more to the story"...

Maybe you have a high 401k balance that will end up with massive RMDs if you don't do years of Roth conversions. That might be a case to delay, so that you have less "income" and thus can do more Roth conversions.

Or maybe your retirement funding is thin, and a few bad years of returns could jeopardize your retirement. That might be a reason to withdraw early, to have guaranteed income (especially if that covers a good chunk of your expenses so your need to withdraw from portfolio is minimal).

Ultimately, you have to balance multiple considerations, and make a judgement call on what's best for yourself. Resources like opensocialsecurity.com can help, as can things like retirement calculators (preferably ones that include taxes), so you can test out different scenarios with different SS dates / benefits, assets, etc. and find what works for you.
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JoeRetire
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by JoeRetire »

bwalling wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:39 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."
I will retire in the next two years (age 46 or 47), and have been told repeatedly by people it's too young and I shouldn't do it. I'll have 40x expenses.
To be fair, there's more to a retirement decision than money.
Did the people who told you that you were too young tell you why they felt that way?
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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JoeRetire
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by JoeRetire »

GoneCamping wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:49 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."

She actually asked DH and me "why in the world would you retire that young? How could you possibly fill your days?"

Our response: 1) Because we can, and 2) We have no qualms that we will find ways to occupy our hours.

:sharebeer
That is another the question we get (retiring at 55/56 this year) from some people, "what will you DO???". My honest and very simple reply is "whatever we want". That is both the beauty and simplicity of retirement to me. In a way, I feel sad for the people who ask that question...
I ask that question of folks who plan to retire early without any real idea of what they will do.
I've seen friends retire only to sit around and watch television. (Usually, it's one of a couple) They don't seem happy.

No need to feel sad if it's an honest question.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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JoeRetire
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by JoeRetire »

billthecat wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:33 pm
SnowBog wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:23 pm For someone single, they basically need to figure out if they'll live longer or shorter than the average estimate. Someone in bad health probably should claim early, as they might not live long enough to hit the "average". For others, it's more subjective.
Given the same level of contributions, women get more social security benefits than men because, on average, they live longer. So is being male like having bad health? Meaning, should men claim social security sooner just by virtue of being male?
No.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
bwalling
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by bwalling »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:03 am
bwalling wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:39 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."
I will retire in the next two years (age 46 or 47), and have been told repeatedly by people it's too young and I shouldn't do it. I'll have 40x expenses.
To be fair, there's more to a retirement decision than money.
Did the people who told you that you were too young tell you why they felt that way?
My reaction is more about their incredulity - they don't argue "retirement wasn't for me" as much as they argue that I'd be an idiot to retire so young.

They fall mostly into two categories: people who got bored and people who felt work provided them some sense of value or identity. If there are folks I know that regretted it due to inadequate finances, they may be unwilling to say so, and it's not my place to assume.

I'll never get bored. Work is boring in part because I want more variety. I could spend the rest of my life auditing college classes and be thrilled with that. I also don't derive any sense of self worth or pleasure from work. I'm good at what I do, but that doesn't mean anything to me. Helping a company make money in exchange for also making money is just a business transaction - nothing more, nothing less.

I may teach or do something I feel has some service value to the community.
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

bwalling wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:39 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."
I will retire in the next two years (age 46 or 47), and have been told repeatedly by people it's too young and I shouldn't do it. I'll have 40x expenses.
If you’re being told repeatedly you’re too young and you shouldn’t do it I might construe that as a red flag only because I quit working last year at 49 and I cannot recall a single person telling me that in the couple of years preceding.

It doesn’t matter how many multiples of expenses you have, since strangers don’t know that- about any of us for that matter. Something these people are all seeing isn’t adding up, perhaps? It’s curious nonetheless, since it’s very different than what my experience was.
3 Fund Portfolio. 70/30 AA. No mortgage. Simplicity is key.
SnowBog
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by SnowBog »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:31 am
bwalling wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:39 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."
I will retire in the next two years (age 46 or 47), and have been told repeatedly by people it's too young and I shouldn't do it. I'll have 40x expenses.
If you’re being told repeatedly you’re too young and you shouldn’t do it I might construe that as a red flag only because I quit working last year at 49 and I cannot recall a single person telling me that in the couple of years preceding.

It doesn’t matter how many multiples of expenses you have, since strangers don’t know that- about any of us for that matter. Something these people are all seeing isn’t adding up, perhaps? It’s curious nonetheless, since it’s very different than what my experience was.
It could also be regional... I suspect (but haven't seen data) that there are areas of the country where FIRE is more common than others. And for those that are in areas where "fire" means call the fire department, I'd expect such a reaction.

We haven't publicly talked about our plan to retire in our early 50's. But I suspect this will be what we run into.

No one in our family tree (either side) has ever "retired early". I have an older [married] sibling who never had kids and always talked about retiring at 55 (to which people said "yeah sure"), but didn't - and I suspect they financially could have if they wanted. Our other siblings I don't think are (or sadly ever will be) in a position they could retire early. More sadly, I think at least one siblings only chance at retirement is marrying someone with money (many, many years of bad decisions on their part). And can't think of anyone in the community or "friends of friends" who's been down this path in our extended social network.

So I wouldn't worry what other people say. If your numbers work, and you have a plan - go for it!
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celia
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by celia »

billthecat wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:59 pm What about if not married?
You should also consider if you should be doing Roth conversions before RMDs start. If you do, then waiting to age 70 to start SS will give you more room in each tax bracket to do Roth conversions, before being pushed up to another tax bracket.

I estimate that a Single with $500K in tax-deferred or MFJ with $1M in tax-deferred, should project their finances past age 72 to see what might happen tax-wise. (Actually, everyone should do that.) And you need to account that the accounts will continue to grow between now and then, unless you convert more than the accounts grow each year.

It is far better to understand your age 72+ situation in early retirement, when you have an opportunity to change it, than being surprised at 72 because you weren’t pro-active.
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
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mrspock
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by mrspock »

bwalling wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:39 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."
I will retire in the next two years (age 46 or 47), and have been told repeatedly by people it's too young and I shouldn't do it. I'll have 40x expenses.
Ignore them. I’ll be right there with you in my mid 40s.

I talk about early retirement in the abstract and many people say 40s is too young, but I’ll circle back to them when they are 75 and retired at 65 and see what their thoughts are then.

…. wishing they had more good years of health, mobility etc.
Old Guy
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Old Guy »

I had overestimated my enthusiasm for volunteering.
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Will do good
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Will do good »

I retired at 59, should have done it a year or two earlier.

With COVID we haven't travel overseas for 2 years and counting. Glad we have done many month long trip early in our retirement.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Wannaretireearly »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:06 am
GoneCamping wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:49 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."

She actually asked DH and me "why in the world would you retire that young? How could you possibly fill your days?"

Our response: 1) Because we can, and 2) We have no qualms that we will find ways to occupy our hours.

:sharebeer
That is another the question we get (retiring at 55/56 this year) from some people, "what will you DO???". My honest and very simple reply is "whatever we want". That is both the beauty and simplicity of retirement to me. In a way, I feel sad for the people who ask that question...
I ask that question of folks who plan to retire early without any real idea of what they will do.
I've seen friends retire only to sit around and watch television. (Usually, it's one of a couple) They don't seem happy.

No need to feel sad if it's an honest question.
I'd just like some dedicated time to work out, use my sauna and relax with Jacuzzi jets! Small goals 😉
Darn work and running around kids are my main blockers!
This time next year, we'll be millionaires!
SteadyOne
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by SteadyOne »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:11 am
billthecat wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:33 pm
SnowBog wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:23 pm For someone single, they basically need to figure out if they'll live longer or shorter than the average estimate. Someone in bad health probably should claim early, as they might not live long enough to hit the "average". For others, it's more subjective.
Given the same level of contributions, women get more social security benefits than men because, on average, they live longer. So is being male like having bad health? Meaning, should men claim social security sooner just by virtue of being male?
No.
Healthy men or sick men? Healthy woman or sick woman? I think you are pointing towards a most critical but mostly overlooked variable in whole retirement planning calculations: the death date. If known, that would have done all computations most optimal. The advice I saw In large part is to use actuarial tables or estimates based on family history. And a lot of people do not even want to talk about it understandably. Doctors might have the best advice how to estimate it at least in 10 -20 year ranges. That would be useful.
“Every de­duc­tion is al­lowed as a mat­ter of leg­isla­tive grace.” US Federal Court
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VictoriaF
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by VictoriaF »

Using the metaphor of the "big rocks first" (for reference, see, for example, http://www.appleseeds.org/big-rocks_covey.htm ), I prepared my big rocks for retirement well:
1. Sufficient assets, approximate retirement budget
2. Good health insurance
3. Several project ideas

Now in retirement, I am noticing and taking care of small rocks. For example:
1. In retirement, I need more strict time planning than when I was working. I have more control of my time, but I don't have more free time.
2. When I can do anything I want, I am missing the constraints that were tying me to specific projects for long enough to complete them. The freedom to choose causes me to move from one activity to another without completing them.
3. I did not anticipate that I'd be spending so much time learning about health and implementing various health measures. There is a huge amount of information about genetic predispositions, supplements, self-directed blood tests and their interpretations, various exercise systems, food related approaches such as ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting, and brain stimulating exercises. All of them are useful for preserving one's health, and all of them take a lot of time.

Knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd do anything differently before I retired. But I would mentally prepare for the need to be more organized than ever.

Victoria
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Nestegg_User
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Nestegg_User »

260chrisb wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 3:12 pm
TexasPE wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:53 pm I was always a great saver, but didn't consider whether I should have taken the 'catch up' contribution funds I put back every year in my 401(k) and instead funded Roth IRAs for my wife. We are looking at a near six-figure RMD when they begin. I am also concerned that she is several years younger - this will exacerbate the tax bite should I pre-decease her.

A first-world problem, I know.
Yes, a first world problem but how long until your first RMD and what can you do to lessen it on the way? You're balance has to be substantial if your first RMD is six figures. Seems to me this is a huge concern to a lot of folks who for whatever reason don't touch their IRAs until the are forced to. My plan is to pull from mine in year one and each year thereafter to a certain tax bracket. If you still have household income and don't need the money doesn't it still make sense to draw from it if you're still in the same tax bracket? The other first world problem is an IRAs growth that continues for years as you age and leave it alone. Taking withdrawals from it doesn't mean you're spending it. You can invest the money. There will be years that I won't need the money but will still withdraw from my IRAs to get the money out.
We're planning something a little different: while I delay to just past FRA {I'm already mid-60's, so just over one year left}, which allows for Roth conversions for the current rollover IRA, spouse will delay to 70 (I'm the slightly lower PIA)... that allows conversions, reasonable SS if I predecease (prior to her age 70 SS), and keeps a bit more taxable monies (have a pension, with 50% spousal as well).... but what we will do after I do the first conversions ( the next year) is Rollover the current 401k from last employer and pull from it prior to RMD requirement (it's over 600k now) That will keep funds in taxable and Roths should unusual needs surface for spouse (especially if I'm gone, as that would help keep the tax bit lower) while keeping income fairly steady (want to avoid IRMAA cliffs)....right now we see that income could be over 160k (at 3.5% wr) and we are in MCOL area with no debt or kids
GoneCamping wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 4:44 pm
MrCheapo wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:29 pm
RudyS wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:26 pm I did not fully understand the advantage(s) of deferring social security. The potential advantage of Roth IRA vs t-IRA.
Can you enlighten us on what advantages you refer to. It's something I have thought about. My situation (to simplify it is) as follows

Claim $2270 at 62 = 490K (live till 80)
Claim $3300 at 67 = 514K (live till 80)
Claim $4100 at 70 = 492K (live till 80)

So its all about the same. Now if I live till 90 clearly the spread gets bigger, but that's a bit of hope.
True on the total dollar amounts at age 80 but my thinking recently has shifted to focus more on the monthly (or annual) total should I wind up needing to rely more on SS than anticipated. By the time one reaches 80, while at about break even for total at that point the difference in the annual amount is quite significant. Adjusted for a yearly 2% COLA adjustment, come 80 I'll be getting about $11k more a year filing at FRA of 67 vs. 62, and $18k more for claiming at 70 vs. 62. Several factors will ultimately go into the decisions but I find this pretty compelling.
I've also considered the current case of diminished SS in 2034 (~75 %) which slightly shifts the starting SS to earlier. But the ability to convert to Roth at about 11-12% effective tax (plus state) versus the 31%+ (plus state) it would have cost to have just put it in Roth initially (...and remember, Roths are fairly recent beasts, so didn't have much time to put monies in) outweigh the much earlier start. I look at the overall cost/earnings at various starting and the tax hit; I also consider (as I've said in other posts) that age 92 is as far as I consider {roughly median age plus two standard deviations: 78 + 2*(7.x) ==> 92} as only one in family has made it past mid-80's (and immediate parents didn't even get past 62 !) and nowadays I'd consdier us to be in "average" health
Last edited by Nestegg_User on Thu May 06, 2021 6:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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billthecat
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by billthecat »

SteadyOne wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:23 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:11 am
billthecat wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:33 pm
SnowBog wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:23 pm For someone single, they basically need to figure out if they'll live longer or shorter than the average estimate. Someone in bad health probably should claim early, as they might not live long enough to hit the "average". For others, it's more subjective.
Given the same level of contributions, women get more social security benefits than men because, on average, they live longer. So is being male like having bad health? Meaning, should men claim social security sooner just by virtue of being male?
No.
Healthy men or sick men? Healthy woman or sick woman? I think you are pointing towards a most critical but mostly overlooked variable in whole retirement planning calculations: the death date. If known, that would have done all computations most optimal. The advice I saw In large part is to use actuarial tables or estimates based on family history. And a lot of people do not even want to talk about it understandably. Doctors might have the best advice how to estimate it at least in 10 -20 year ranges. That would be useful.
I'm just asking if, assuming all other factors are the same, men should choose to receive SS sooner because on average they don't live as long as women. Naturally, there would be adjustments from there for a person's specific health. I'm specifically wondering about the gender factor.
We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails • Warning: you will succeed at whatever you focus on, good or bad
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JoeRetire
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by JoeRetire »

billthecat wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:02 pmI'm just asking if, assuming all other factors are the same, men should choose to receive SS sooner because on average they don't live as long as women.
Sooner than what?
Sooner than women?
Sooner than 70?

All other factors being equal, single men and women should both delay until 70.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
BlackStrat
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by BlackStrat »

celia wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:32 pm On the contrary!!!

Why you need to have a Roth IRA
Let’s look at your future self. Suppose you are age 70, would you be glad you had tax-deferred accounts that had grown to $2M or would you be glad that you had $1.5M in a Roth IRA? Or would you like half of each? [Forget the math for the moment and decide your answer before continuing]

If all/most of your retirement money is in tax-deferred, you will have to start withdrawing RMDs and pay taxes on every dollar withdrawn, regardless if you need the money for spending or not and regardless of what your tax bracket is at that time. By the time you pay the taxes, there will less left over and the tax bracket will be unknown until then. There is also a surcharge on those Medicare beneficiaries with higher income. Instead of paying $2K in premiums each year like the vast majority pay, you could be one of those paying $11K in premiums just because the RMDs made your income higher. Double those amounts if Married.
Celia - can you explain how you came up with the highlighted part above? I saw the table below (apologies for the formatting ) but it doesn’t seem to come to up to $22,000 yearly:

Table 1. Part B – 2021 IRMAA
Individual Joint Monthly Premium
> $88,000 or less > $176,000 or less $148.50
> $88,000 – $111,000 > $176,000 – $222,000 $207.90
> $111,000 – $138,000 > $222,000 -$276,000 $297.00
> $138,000 – $165,000 > $276,000 – $330,000 $386.10
> $165,000 – $500,000 > $330,000 – $750,000 $475.20
Greater than $500,000 Greater than $750,000 $504.90

Thanks!
howard71
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by howard71 »

First thing I learned was that it was a lot harder to catch a fish that I thought it would be.

Second thing I learned, after learning how to catch fish, is that I really don't like fishing.
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celia
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by celia »

BlackStrat wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:17 am
celia wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:32 pm On the contrary!!!

Why you need to have a Roth IRA
Let’s look at your future self. Suppose you are age 70, would you be glad you had tax-deferred accounts that had grown to $2M or would you be glad that you had $1.5M in a Roth IRA? Or would you like half of each? [Forget the math for the moment and decide your answer before continuing]

If all/most of your retirement money is in tax-deferred, you will have to start withdrawing RMDs and pay taxes on every dollar withdrawn, regardless if you need the money for spending or not and regardless of what your tax bracket is at that time. By the time you pay the taxes, there will less left over and the tax bracket will be unknown until then. There is also a surcharge on those Medicare beneficiaries with higher income. Instead of paying $2K in premiums each year like the vast majority pay, you could be one of those paying $11K in premiums just because the RMDs made your income higher. Double those amounts if Married.
Celia - can you explain how you came up with the highlighted part above? I saw the table below (apologies for the formatting ) but it doesn’t seem to come to up to $22,000 yearly:

Code: Select all

Table 1. Part B – 2021 IRMAA
Individual			  Joint	        	 Monthly Premium
$88,000 or less	        	$176,000 or less 	$148.50
$88,000 – $111,000	  	$176,000 – $222,000	$207.90
$111,000 – $138,000	 	$222,000 -$276,000	$297.00
$138,000 – $165,000	 	$276,000 – $330,000	$386.10
$165,000 – $500,000		$330,000 – $750,000	$475.20
Greater than $500,000		Greater than $750,000	$504.90
Thanks!
Fixed the formatting for you. Thanks for catching this, as the $11K was for MFJ and according to your table, it would be $12K.
$500 * 2 = $1,000 a month in premiums = $12,000 a year.
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
BlackStrat
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by BlackStrat »

celia wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:02 am
BlackStrat wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:17 am
celia wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:32 pm On the contrary!!!

Why you need to have a Roth IRA
Let’s look at your future self. Suppose you are age 70, would you be glad you had tax-deferred accounts that had grown to $2M or would you be glad that you had $1.5M in a Roth IRA? Or would you like half of each? [Forget the math for the moment and decide your answer before continuing]

If all/most of your retirement money is in tax-deferred, you will have to start withdrawing RMDs and pay taxes on every dollar withdrawn, regardless if you need the money for spending or not and regardless of what your tax bracket is at that time. By the time you pay the taxes, there will less left over and the tax bracket will be unknown until then. There is also a surcharge on those Medicare beneficiaries with higher income. Instead of paying $2K in premiums each year like the vast majority pay, you could be one of those paying $11K in premiums just because the RMDs made your income higher. Double those amounts if Married.
Celia - can you explain how you came up with the highlighted part above? I saw the table below (apologies for the formatting ) but it doesn’t seem to come to up to $22,000 yearly:

Code: Select all

Table 1. Part B – 2021 IRMAA
Individual			  Joint	        	 Monthly Premium
$88,000 or less	        	$176,000 or less 	$148.50
$88,000 – $111,000	  	$176,000 – $222,000	$207.90
$111,000 – $138,000	 	$222,000 -$276,000	$297.00
$138,000 – $165,000	 	$276,000 – $330,000	$386.10
$165,000 – $500,000		$330,000 – $750,000	$475.20
Greater than $500,000		Greater than $750,000	$504.90
Thanks!
Fixed the formatting for you. Thanks for catching this, as the $11K was for MFJ and according to your table, it would be $12K.
$500 * 2 = $1,000 a month in premiums = $12,000 a year.
It was the “Double those amounts if married” part ($22k?) which confused me. Thx
ModifiedDuration
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by ModifiedDuration »

BlackStrat wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:07 am
celia wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:02 am
BlackStrat wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:17 am
celia wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:32 pm On the contrary!!!

Why you need to have a Roth IRA
Let’s look at your future self. Suppose you are age 70, would you be glad you had tax-deferred accounts that had grown to $2M or would you be glad that you had $1.5M in a Roth IRA? Or would you like half of each? [Forget the math for the moment and decide your answer before continuing]

If all/most of your retirement money is in tax-deferred, you will have to start withdrawing RMDs and pay taxes on every dollar withdrawn, regardless if you need the money for spending or not and regardless of what your tax bracket is at that time. By the time you pay the taxes, there will less left over and the tax bracket will be unknown until then. There is also a surcharge on those Medicare beneficiaries with higher income. Instead of paying $2K in premiums each year like the vast majority pay, you could be one of those paying $11K in premiums just because the RMDs made your income higher. Double those amounts if Married.
Celia - can you explain how you came up with the highlighted part above? I saw the table below (apologies for the formatting ) but it doesn’t seem to come to up to $22,000 yearly:

Code: Select all

Table 1. Part B – 2021 IRMAA
Individual			  Joint	        	 Monthly Premium
$88,000 or less	        	$176,000 or less 	$148.50
$88,000 – $111,000	  	$176,000 – $222,000	$207.90
$111,000 – $138,000	 	$222,000 -$276,000	$297.00
$138,000 – $165,000	 	$276,000 – $330,000	$386.10
$165,000 – $500,000		$330,000 – $750,000	$475.20
Greater than $500,000		Greater than $750,000	$504.90
Thanks!
Fixed the formatting for you. Thanks for catching this, as the $11K was for MFJ and according to your table, it would be $12K.
$500 * 2 = $1,000 a month in premiums = $12,000 a year.
It was the “Double those amounts if married” part ($22k?) which confused me. Thx
And if you have Part D for prescriptions, you could also have to pay an Income-Related Monthly Adjustment Amount of $77.10, so, along with the Part B premium of $504.90, you now have $582 a month or $7,000 a year for a single or $14,000 a year for a couple (plus the actual Part D premium). Plus a Medigap premium, too.

This would just be for the few people who are making over $500,000 a year if single and $750,000 a year if married.
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by ResearchMed »

howard71 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:28 am First thing I learned was that it was a lot harder to catch a fish that I thought it would be.

Second thing I learned, after learning how to catch fish, is that I really don't like fishing.
This is actually important, for anyone who "plans to spend much of retirement time doing a new X", and especially if one relocates/purchases a retirement home with "proximity to X" in mind.

RM
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by namajones »

Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
I've experienced this, and I'm not yet retired (but close). The envy factor plays a role, I think.
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by goodenyou »

The fear of not feeling productive has me questioning if I am ready for retirement. I am experimenting with the idea of more time off, but the amount of work that has to be done as a self-employed person just to break even has me doubting whether it will be worth the effort. My business has a very high “stall speed”. My spouse is still working and we have agreed to retire at the same time. We have far exceeded our “number”, but the continued earned income from human capital has allowed more freedom to spend.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains”
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by JoeRetire »

goodenyou wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:16 amMy spouse is still working and we have agreed to retire at the same time.
Many couples choose to do the same.
We have far exceeded our “number”, but the continued earned income from human capital has allowed more freedom to spend.
Your "number" doesn't allow you enough freedom to spend?
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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goodenyou
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by goodenyou »

JoeRetire wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:23 am
goodenyou wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:16 amMy spouse is still working and we have agreed to retire at the same time.
Many couples choose to do the same.
We have far exceeded our “number”, but the continued earned income from human capital has allowed more freedom to spend.
Your "number" doesn't allow you enough freedom to spend?
By current theories of SWR, it does. However, the few uncertainties are the extent to which we want to help the kids. Human capital adds an element of security to a portfolio, albeit at a cost. Right now that cost is tolerable.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains”
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by FrugalInvestor »

It would have been very beneficial to me to better understand the tax efficiency of various investments and the importance of placement (retirement vs. non-retirement accounts). Since I had already retired the '08-'09 downturn along with the discovery of Bogleheads was a godsend to me as I was able to restructure my accounts for both tax efficiency and simplicity. Relying on luck, however, is not a good approach.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
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JoeRetire
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by JoeRetire »

goodenyou wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:23 am
goodenyou wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:16 amMy spouse is still working and we have agreed to retire at the same time.
Many couples choose to do the same.
We have far exceeded our “number”, but the continued earned income from human capital has allowed more freedom to spend.
Your "number" doesn't allow you enough freedom to spend?
By current theories of SWR, it does. However, the few uncertainties are the extent to which we want to help the kids. Human capital adds an element of security to a portfolio, albeit at a cost. Right now that cost is tolerable.
Sounds like you need to adjust your "number" to account for the things that are important to you, rather than just theories.
Your "number" doesn't need to be the same "number" as anyone else. It only has to work for you.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by goodenyou »

JoeRetire wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:38 am
goodenyou wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:34 am
JoeRetire wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:23 am
goodenyou wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:16 amMy spouse is still working and we have agreed to retire at the same time.
Many couples choose to do the same.
We have far exceeded our “number”, but the continued earned income from human capital has allowed more freedom to spend.
Your "number" doesn't allow you enough freedom to spend?
By current theories of SWR, it does. However, the few uncertainties are the extent to which we want to help the kids. Human capital adds an element of security to a portfolio, albeit at a cost. Right now that cost is tolerable.
Sounds like you need to adjust your "number" to account for the things that are important to you, rather than just theories.
Your "number" doesn't need to be the same "number" as anyone else. It only has to work for you.
You are correct. It is a work in progress.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains”
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by mr_brightside »

namajones wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 am
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
I've experienced this, and I'm not yet retired (but close). The envy factor plays a role, I think.
i just pulled the trigger myself (early 50s). trying to figure out my exact way to tell people I'm 'not working anymore'.

not sure if i will work for pay again. i might. i might not.

------------------------------------------
SQRT
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by SQRT »

Well I certainly know a lot more about retirement finances now than I did before I retired 14 years ago. I had no idea about SWR, FIRE, ETF’s or the like. But since I retired when I stopped enjoying my career and by that point I had plenty saved for a very well funded retirement, I can honestly say that there is nothing “I wish I knew”. If J knew then what J know now, I don’t think I would change anything. Well maybe buy a lot of Amazon :happy
it’s worked out marvellously as it is though. Very lucky, indeed.
Last edited by SQRT on Sat May 08, 2021 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
iamblessed
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by iamblessed »

mr_brightside wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:47 pm
namajones wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 am
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
I've experienced this, and I'm not yet retired (but close). The envy factor plays a role, I think.
i just pulled the trigger myself (early 50s). trying to figure out my exact way to tell people I'm 'not working anymore'.

not sure if i will work for pay again. i might. i might not.

------------------------------------------
Would you tell people you are a stock trader? I am an investor? What do you say I would like to know. Asking all retired bogleheads.
Last edited by iamblessed on Fri May 07, 2021 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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JoeRetire
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by JoeRetire »

mr_brightside wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:47 pm
namajones wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 am
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
I've experienced this, and I'm not yet retired (but close). The envy factor plays a role, I think.
i just pulled the trigger myself (early 50s). trying to figure out my exact way to tell people I'm 'not working anymore'.

not sure if i will work for pay again. i might. i might not.

------------------------------------------
Before you say anything, decide if you should say "I'm not working anymore" or "I'm not working for now".
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
HootingSloth
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by HootingSloth »

BlackStrat wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:07 am
celia wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:02 am
BlackStrat wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:17 am
celia wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:32 pm On the contrary!!!

Why you need to have a Roth IRA
Let’s look at your future self. Suppose you are age 70, would you be glad you had tax-deferred accounts that had grown to $2M or would you be glad that you had $1.5M in a Roth IRA? Or would you like half of each? [Forget the math for the moment and decide your answer before continuing]

If all/most of your retirement money is in tax-deferred, you will have to start withdrawing RMDs and pay taxes on every dollar withdrawn, regardless if you need the money for spending or not and regardless of what your tax bracket is at that time. By the time you pay the taxes, there will less left over and the tax bracket will be unknown until then. There is also a surcharge on those Medicare beneficiaries with higher income. Instead of paying $2K in premiums each year like the vast majority pay, you could be one of those paying $11K in premiums just because the RMDs made your income higher. Double those amounts if Married.
Celia - can you explain how you came up with the highlighted part above? I saw the table below (apologies for the formatting ) but it doesn’t seem to come to up to $22,000 yearly:

Code: Select all

Table 1. Part B – 2021 IRMAA
Individual			  Joint	        	 Monthly Premium
$88,000 or less	        	$176,000 or less 	$148.50
$88,000 – $111,000	  	$176,000 – $222,000	$207.90
$111,000 – $138,000	 	$222,000 -$276,000	$297.00
$138,000 – $165,000	 	$276,000 – $330,000	$386.10
$165,000 – $500,000		$330,000 – $750,000	$475.20
Greater than $500,000		Greater than $750,000	$504.90
Thanks!
Fixed the formatting for you. Thanks for catching this, as the $11K was for MFJ and according to your table, it would be $12K.
$500 * 2 = $1,000 a month in premiums = $12,000 a year.
It was the “Double those amounts if married” part ($22k?) which confused me. Thx
Maybe it is because I am still young, but I've never quite been able to figure out people stressing over IRMAA and RMDs. If our joint income is still greater than $750,000 at age 72+, when we are taking RMDs, why would I be scared of paying $500/month or $1,000/month or whatever it may be? It seems relatively difficult to get RMDs and Social Security past $250k, so what are you doing to generate an extra $500k+ income in retirement? Massive capital gains that you need to trigger in order to cover insanely high spending? If that's it, then the IRMAA seems like a rounding error.

Even $176k seems pretty high for a retirement income, and it seems to me that $207.90/month wouldn't feel any different than $148.50/month in most situations where you have that kind of income in retirement. Maybe someone can clarify.
Global Market Portfolio + modest tilt towards volatility (80/20->60/40 as approach FI) + modest tilt away from exchange rate risk (80% global+20% U.S. stocks; currency-hedge bonds) + tax optimization
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by VictoriaF »

HootingSloth wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:18 pm Maybe it is because I am still young, but I've never quite been able to figure out people stressing over IRMAA and RMDs. If our joint income is still greater than $750,000 at age 72+, when we are taking RMDs, why would I be scared of paying $500/month or $1,000/month or whatever it may be? It seems relatively difficult to get RMDs and Social Security past $250k, so what are you doing to generate an extra $500k+ income in retirement? Massive capital gains that you need to trigger in order to cover insanely high spending? If that's it, then the IRMAA seems like a rounding error.

Even $176k seems pretty high for a retirement income, and it seems to me that $207.90/month wouldn't feel any different than $148.50/month in most situations where you have that kind of income in retirement. Maybe someone can clarify.
Most people are not stressing out over IRMAA or RMDs. Most people who have succeeded in asset accumulation have developed habits of looking for optimal solutions and minimizing waste. However, before retirement, people may not be aware of certain thresholds and tradeoffs. Celia has pointed out one such trade-off. A simple spreadsheet helps to decide between spending on Roth conversions now vs. spending on IRMAA later.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
HootingSloth
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by HootingSloth »

VictoriaF wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:03 am
HootingSloth wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:18 pm Maybe it is because I am still young, but I've never quite been able to figure out people stressing over IRMAA and RMDs. If our joint income is still greater than $750,000 at age 72+, when we are taking RMDs, why would I be scared of paying $500/month or $1,000/month or whatever it may be? It seems relatively difficult to get RMDs and Social Security past $250k, so what are you doing to generate an extra $500k+ income in retirement? Massive capital gains that you need to trigger in order to cover insanely high spending? If that's it, then the IRMAA seems like a rounding error.

Even $176k seems pretty high for a retirement income, and it seems to me that $207.90/month wouldn't feel any different than $148.50/month in most situations where you have that kind of income in retirement. Maybe someone can clarify.
Most people are not stressing out over IRMAA or RMDs. Most people who have succeeded in asset accumulation have developed habits of looking for optimal solutions and minimizing waste. However, before retirement, people may not be aware of certain thresholds and tradeoffs. Celia has pointed out one such trade-off. A simple spreadsheet helps to decide between spending on Roth conversions now vs. spending on IRMAA later.

Victoria
Thank you, VictoriaF. It makes sense to me that you might pay attention to the IRMAA thresholds in deciding the amount of a Roth conversion to do in any given year because of the cliff effect involved in going over. I was confused by the bolded part of what Celia wrote above, which, if read in isolation, might come across as a bit alarmist when this is, in fact, an issue of making slight tweaks to optimize your outcome.
Global Market Portfolio + modest tilt towards volatility (80/20->60/40 as approach FI) + modest tilt away from exchange rate risk (80% global+20% U.S. stocks; currency-hedge bonds) + tax optimization
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Hayden »

iamblessed wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:31 pm
mr_brightside wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:47 pm
namajones wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 am
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
I've experienced this, and I'm not yet retired (but close). The envy factor plays a role, I think.
i just pulled the trigger myself (early 50s). trying to figure out my exact way to tell people I'm 'not working anymore'.

not sure if i will work for pay again. i might. i might not.

------------------------------------------
Would you tell people you are a stock trader? I am an investor? What do you say I would like to know. Asking all retired bogleheads.
When people say, what do you do? I respond by telling them what i do. At any time i usually have some predominant activity that is occupying my time (writing an app, taking a course, etc.).

When people say, do you work? then i usually hem and haw, and then again tell them about my activity (i'm writing an app! or something like that).
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munemaker
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by munemaker »

I wish I knew:

- our portfolio would increase in value by 40% in the 4 years after retirement
- how little we would spend compared to what I expected and planned for
- how much I am enjoying to learn to play the guitar. Challenging, a lot of fun and relatively inexpensive. Also a great hobby during the pandemic.

Mun
sailaway
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by sailaway »

munemaker wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:17 pm

- our portfolio would increase in value by 40% in the 4 years after retirement
If only we all knew what our portfolios would do...
Mardy6
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Mardy6 »

Wish I knew about this forum earlier in my pre- retirement. Would not have kept most money in cash funds fearing market losses. However, learned about the index fund portfolio among other things and anticipating better investment growth.
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by GoldenFinch »

Toons wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:17 pm
tennisplyr wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:56 pm Retired 10 years. That life flys by in retirement, if you feel like doing something, do it. Money is not a main focus, good health and enjoying life are. “Don’t sweat the small stuff”
Perfect
Ditto On Health,Happiness,Family
10 stars out of 5
Life starts speeding by.
Put off nothing if you want to do it.
If you are set financially
Don't even waste your time asking yourself ,
Is it worth it?
Do I need it or
I might need the money later.
Later Is Now
:wink: :wink:
Whenever I read a post from Toons, I always get a Zen-like feeling. Thanks, Toons. :happy
BogleFan510
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by BogleFan510 »

A pandemic was coming and I would not be able to travel, so I could have worked from home and got paid for sheltering in place. That said, no regrets as hiking trails filled the time, if not lucrative.
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Monster99
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Monster99 »

munemaker wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:17 pm I wish I knew:

- our portfolio would increase in value by 40% in the 4 years after retirement
- how little we would spend compared to what I expected and planned for
- how much I am enjoying to learn to play the guitar. Challenging, a lot of fun and relatively inexpensive. Also a great hobby during the pandemic.

Mun
+1

My DW would want some of that 40% invested in sound proofing the "music room" if I pulled out my Gibson 335 - haven't played it in 35 years....🤭🤭
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Toons
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Toons »

GoldenFinch wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 4:26 pm
Toons wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:17 pm
tennisplyr wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:56 pm Retired 10 years. That life flys by in retirement, if you feel like doing something, do it. Money is not a main focus, good health and enjoying life are. “Don’t sweat the small stuff”
Perfect
Ditto On Health,Happiness,Family
10 stars out of 5
Life starts speeding by.
Put off nothing if you want to do it.
If you are set financially
Don't even waste your time asking yourself ,
Is it worth it?
Do I need it or
I might need the money later.
Later Is Now
:wink: :wink:
Whenever I read a post from Toons, I always get a Zen-like feeling. Thanks, Toons. :happy
My Pleasure Golden Finch
Breathe Deep
Keep It Simple
Thanks


:wink:
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
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munemaker
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by munemaker »

Monster99 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:24 am
munemaker wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:17 pm I wish I knew:

- our portfolio would increase in value by 40% in the 4 years after retirement
- how little we would spend compared to what I expected and planned for
- how much I am enjoying to learn to play the guitar. Challenging, a lot of fun and relatively inexpensive. Also a great hobby during the pandemic.

Mun
+1

My DW would want some of that 40% invested in sound proofing the "music room" if I pulled out my Gibson 335 - haven't played it in 35 years....🤭🤭
Perhaps it is time...
Normchad
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Normchad »

JoeRetire wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:33 pm
mr_brightside wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:47 pm
namajones wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 am
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
I've experienced this, and I'm not yet retired (but close). The envy factor plays a role, I think.
i just pulled the trigger myself (early 50s). trying to figure out my exact way to tell people I'm 'not working anymore'.

not sure if i will work for pay again. i might. i might not.

------------------------------------------
Before you say anything, decide if you should say "I'm not working anymore" or "I'm not working for now".
I plan to go with “I’m between jobs”. If nothing else, it should squash the envy, and nobody will ask me for financial assistance.

I’m debating even letting the extended family know I’m retired. The wife will know, but that might be it....
SnowBog
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by SnowBog »

Normchad wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:02 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:33 pm
mr_brightside wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:47 pm
namajones wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 am
Cruise wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 am One thing that surprised me in retirement was that I’d occasionally run into someone who seemed miffed that I was retired and there were not. I think my younger-than-my-years look may have contributed to this.
I've experienced this, and I'm not yet retired (but close). The envy factor plays a role, I think.
i just pulled the trigger myself (early 50s). trying to figure out my exact way to tell people I'm 'not working anymore'.

not sure if i will work for pay again. i might. i might not.

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Before you say anything, decide if you should say "I'm not working anymore" or "I'm not working for now".
I plan to go with “I’m between jobs”. If nothing else, it should squash the envy, and nobody will ask me for financial assistance.

I’m debating even letting the extended family know I’m retired. The wife will know, but that might be it....
Few years to go for me... But I'd like to say that "I've taken on a new role as a portfolio manager of a multi million dollar investment organization."

At least until people realize that we are retired... Then I'm not sure that works as well...
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Sandi_k
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Re: What do you wish you knew before you retired you know now!

Post by Sandi_k »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:31 am
bwalling wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:39 am
Sandi_k wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 pm Ha! My MIL informed me last month that I could NOT POSSIBLY retire at 60, because it was "too young." Note that she chose to work as an Avon lady until age 83, to "keep herself occupied" and to have "a bit of pocket money" and "to get out of the house."
I will retire in the next two years (age 46 or 47), and have been told repeatedly by people it's too young and I shouldn't do it. I'll have 40x expenses.
If you’re being told repeatedly you’re too young and you shouldn’t do it I might construe that as a red flag only because I quit working last year at 49 and I cannot recall a single person telling me that in the couple of years preceding.

It doesn’t matter how many multiples of expenses you have, since strangers don’t know that- about any of us for that matter. Something these people are all seeing isn’t adding up, perhaps? It’s curious nonetheless, since it’s very different than what my experience was.
We'll be 60 and 62. It's a failure of imagination on her part, not on ours.
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