Workout plateau -- looking to make changes in diet

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leonard
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Post by leonard » Fri May 27, 2011 8:19 pm

tc101 wrote:Experiment with getting more rest. Remember that muscle growth happens during rest, not during exercise. There was a recent Mr. Universe who only worked out 3 days a week. Sorry I can't remember his name but he said this in a TV interview.


I think it was Mike Mentzer with his Heavy Duty training.
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Post by leonard » Fri May 27, 2011 8:23 pm

Triple digit golfer wrote:
Zander wrote:stop eating so often. 6 meals a day is a chore and there is no proof that is does anything but make you hungrier. Eat 3 times a day like a normal person


That is absolutely horrible advice.

First of all, there is proof that it makes people LESS hungry. So your alleged proof that it makes you more hungry is just made up, I'm sure.

Second, normal people probably eat more than three times per day. That 2:30 bag of Cheetos and bottle of Pepsi counts. The M&Ms after dinner count. The mid-morning pretzels count. So instead of those, eat a piece of fruit and some nuts or some yogurt or something. It's very easy. Eating six times a day is not a chore at all. It's probably the norm. If I ate breakfast before work and waited until lunch to eat, that'd be over six hours. No thank you.


Look at obesity statistics and see what "normal" gets you.

A person can simply try eating 5 or 6 smaller healthy meals versus 3 and see if it works for them at the same overall calorie level.
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Post by DiscoBunny1979 » Fri May 27, 2011 8:38 pm

In my opinoin, most calories should be obtained through real food, not protein drinks. Protein Drinks can make you fat, rather than gain muscle. Also, there should be more emphasis on higher calcium and Vitamin D in one's diet. It takes 1 cup of yogurt, 1 oz of cheeze and 1 cup of milk to equal the RDA of Calcium. . .but those RDA guidelines are from the 1970's and way out of date. While gaining muscle and loosing weight is important, it's more important to look at the future and try and avoid the problems associated with lack of Calcium for the bones. So, the diet should be focusing on Calcium rich foods like non fat milk, yogurt, Spinach, almonds, broc and other calcium rich stuff . . one or two serving of yogurt without the other stuff won't cut it over the long run.

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Post by novastepp » Fri May 27, 2011 10:27 pm

I have worked with bodybuilding and performace nutrition for almost 8 years.

1st and most importantly, DIET is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect to any training regime and to overall body recomposition.

When your diet is spot-on, your training and your bydy will reach new heights.

Common knowledge in regard to dieting is about as bad as it is with investing.

That being said, I'll take a look at your diet and offer you my best advice.

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Re: Workout plateau -- looking to make changes in diet

Post by novastepp » Fri May 27, 2011 10:40 pm

RaleighStClaire wrote:Background: I'm 27. In good to very good shape. Lift weights 5-6 times a week on average at a moderate pace meaning I don't do a set and sit there for several minutes before starting my next set. Instead, I do a lot of supersets where I am doing different exercises back to back and building up a good sweat in the process. I have been in a maintenance stage where I have not improved at anything in two years but I also haven't pushed myself enough while at the gym to actually improve.

Goal: To get in better shape. (Who doesn't?)

Idea: Perhaps it's time to take nutrition seriously. I try and limit the bad stuff and eat the good stuff and consume enough protein etc but obviously I am doing it wrong. I'd like to really take it seriously and eat like a fitness pro for about a month to see if it makes a difference. I suspect it will but I'd like to have a good plan. For now, that plan is to limit sugars, bad carbs and eat more frequently. I am fine with eating the same thing repeatedly so having a few days worth of meals lined up would go a long way with me since I could repeat them constantly. At 185lbs I probably need about 2700 calories a day (maybe I'm wrong here and someone can help) which should be around 550 calories per meal. Each day would be pretty similar to this. note: I almost always work out in the afternoon-evening.

How does this one day snapshot look?

Breakfast: 2 servings of plain oatmeal. (I'm big on the oats.)

add two scoops of whey protein to this meal. protein should be a staple in every single meal


Lunch part 1: Small grilled chicken breast, side of greens, plain greek yogurt.

should work just fine as long as your protein and carb needs are being met

Lunch part 2: 7oz can of tuna, cup of quinoa, greens.

love this meal. greens, hopefully, means romaine, broccoli and the like

workout

Post-workout: 2 scoops protein with water.

if you are big on the oats, i would have your meal 1 here as well. your body will need those carbs combined with teh protein to regulate blood sugar, blunt cortisol, and begin/continue protein synthesis.

Dinner: Turkey meatloaf, plain greek yogurt, greens.

again, good choices. i would make sure to have plenty of carbs in this meal as well. carbs will make your muscle grow and recover, don't worry about them; use them to make improvements.


Anyways, that's the basic plan right now. Each meal would be about 3 hours apart and around the 550 calorie goal aside from the Breakfast and Post-workout meals which are around 300 each. Maybe I need to balance them out some. Maybe the greek yogurt isn't ideal. I don't really know! Anyways, if anyone has some advice on this or even if they know of a good forum for this kind of thing I'd appreciate it.


One would really need to know your stats (you provide your weight and age, but not your height) to provide an accurate consultation.

You can google the Katch McArdle forumla which allows you to determine your daily caloric needs based on your lean body mass, which is a very accurate way of determining not only your daily needs, but the caloric amounts of your meals.

The best way to create a dietary strategy is to: determine your caloric needs, break those needs down into protein/carb/fat amounts, and then break those needs evenly into your meals (5, 6, or 7 meals).

One should not sacrifice their caloric needs around workouts. If anything, those meals should be larger to account for the demands of not only your muscles, but your central nervous system.

This is the beginning, after determining these needs it will be easier to determine your dietary needs. This will absolutely improve your body's composition.

I will offer my opinions on your diet anyway.

But as a great resource, visit forums.steroid.com You can find the majority of my contributions in the diet forum. I am even a contributor to a stick in teh diet forum with my friend "Narkissos". It can be found at http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.ph ... rition-101

Good luck.[/b]

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Guest422
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Post by Guest422 » Fri May 27, 2011 10:51 pm

http://www.drsears.com/ZoneResources/Bo ... fault.aspx

I find the zone body mass calculator to be a good place to start
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Zander
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Post by Zander » Fri May 27, 2011 11:04 pm

Triple digit golfer wrote:
Zander wrote:stop eating so often. 6 meals a day is a chore and there is no proof that is does anything but make you hungrier. Eat 3 times a day like a normal person


That is absolutely horrible advice.

First of all, there is proof that it makes people LESS hungry. So your alleged proof that it makes you more hungry is just made up, I'm sure.

Second, normal people probably eat more than three times per day. That 2:30 bag of Cheetos and bottle of Pepsi counts. The M&Ms after dinner count. The mid-morning pretzels count. So instead of those, eat a piece of fruit and some nuts or some yogurt or something. It's very easy. Eating six times a day is not a chore at all. It's probably the norm. If I ate breakfast before work and waited until lunch to eat, that'd be over six hours. No thank you.


Good for you. I hope your diet works out for you. If you have the discipline, 6 small meals a day might be a good plan. In my experience - most people don't have the discipline to adhere to a 6 meal a day plan. The easiest plan for most people is to eat less frequently. For most people 6 meals a day is a recipe for obesity.

Personally, I eat 2 meals a day in a 5-6 hour window. I would wager that I have better body composition than 99% of the population and I never feel deprived or hungry.

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Guest422
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Post by Guest422 » Fri May 27, 2011 11:08 pm

Zander wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Zander wrote:stop eating so often. 6 meals a day is a chore and there is no proof that is does anything but make you hungrier. Eat 3 times a day like a normal person


That is absolutely horrible advice.

First of all, there is proof that it makes people LESS hungry. So your alleged proof that it makes you more hungry is just made up, I'm sure.

Second, normal people probably eat more than three times per day. That 2:30 bag of Cheetos and bottle of Pepsi counts. The M&Ms after dinner count. The mid-morning pretzels count. So instead of those, eat a piece of fruit and some nuts or some yogurt or something. It's very easy. Eating six times a day is not a chore at all. It's probably the norm. If I ate breakfast before work and waited until lunch to eat, that'd be over six hours. No thank you.


Good for you. I hope your diet works out for you. If you have the discipline, 6 small meals a day might be a good plan. In my experience - most people don't have the discipline to adhere to a 6 meal a day plan. The easiest plan for most people is to eat less frequently. For most people 6 meals a day is a recipe for obesity.

Personally, I eat 2 meals a day in a 5-6 hour window. I would wager that I have better body composition than 99% of the population and I never feel deprived or hungry.



You are doing intermediate fasting to regulate insulin? I have played with that before with very good results.
"The hardest victory is over self" | Aristotle

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Zander
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Post by Zander » Fri May 27, 2011 11:14 pm

kevintmckay wrote:
Zander wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:
Zander wrote:stop eating so often. 6 meals a day is a chore and there is no proof that is does anything but make you hungrier. Eat 3 times a day like a normal person


That is absolutely horrible advice.

First of all, there is proof that it makes people LESS hungry. So your alleged proof that it makes you more hungry is just made up, I'm sure.

Second, normal people probably eat more than three times per day. That 2:30 bag of Cheetos and bottle of Pepsi counts. The M&Ms after dinner count. The mid-morning pretzels count. So instead of those, eat a piece of fruit and some nuts or some yogurt or something. It's very easy. Eating six times a day is not a chore at all. It's probably the norm. If I ate breakfast before work and waited until lunch to eat, that'd be over six hours. No thank you.


Good for you. I hope your diet works out for you. If you have the discipline, 6 small meals a day might be a good plan. In my experience - most people don't have the discipline to adhere to a 6 meal a day plan. The easiest plan for most people is to eat less frequently. For most people 6 meals a day is a recipe for obesity.

Personally, I eat 2 meals a day in a 5-6 hour window. I would wager that I have better body composition than 99% of the population and I never feel deprived or hungry.



You are doing intermediate fasting to regulate insulin? I have played with that before with very good results.
I end up with a 18-19 hour fast each day. It works very well for me. I work out 3-4 x per week in a fasted state and eat immediately afterward. My lady friends have been very happy with the results.........

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Post by mithrandir » Sat May 28, 2011 8:58 am

All things being equal I'd rather have more meals than less.

12 x 200 calorie meals better than 6 x 400 calorie meals better than 3 x 800 calorie meals.

12 200-calorie meals a day may be unrealistic or inconvenient but advantage here is that you limit the theoretical worst-case glycemic load, i.e. you were to consume 50g of pure glucose (@4 cals per carb g).

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Post by Happydayz » Sun May 29, 2011 12:52 pm

The ideal number of meals per day is very individualized.

The old conventional wisdom was that 5-6 meals a day was ideal so as to keep the metabolism running. This viewpoint has largely been discredited in various studies. At this point it is one of those viewpoints that seems logical (like the paleo diet), but isn't born out by actual data. There are many successful athletes who still do this, many who just eat 3x meals a day, and some who just eat one big meal a day.

What matters more than frequency/timing is total calories and the quality of the food. Just get your caloric intake right and do it with nutritious foods and it doesn't matter if you eat it all at once or split over multiple meals.

But like others have said - nutrition is the biggest component of total health.

As for your routine - it's unfortunate but your gym frankly sucks. A smith machine is NOT good to do squats in. It forces you into an awkward range of motion. Chances are that if you move to free weights you will have to drastically drop the amount of weight you are squatting until you can learn proper form.

Also a big negative that you can't do deadlifts. You can do almost anything while working out and still post great results so long as you are doing the big compound movements like deadlifts, squats, bench, pull-ups.

For the people saying that cardio is required - it isn't. Hook yourself up to a heart rate monitor while squatting or better yet while doing clean and jerks. Your heart-rate will be right up there.

In my opinoin, most calories should be obtained through real food, not protein drinks. Protein Drinks can make you fat, rather than gain muscle


Getting adequate protein with whole foods can be difficult. There are many solid protein drinks that will give you 25g of clean protein with only ~130-150 calories. Optimum Nutrition is one great brand for straight whey protein that will save you the effort of having to eat a packet of tuna or a few eggs. Most of your protein should come from solid foods, but a protein shake or two is a great way to save time.

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Post by mithrandir » Sun May 29, 2011 1:37 pm

Happydayz wrote:For the people saying that cardio is required - it isn't. Hook yourself up to a heart rate monitor while squatting or better yet while doing clean and jerks. Your heart-rate will be right up there.

That's true about squats but... you still aren't spending enough time in that anaerobic zone to get off the hook from cardio.

Some don't like cardio because it's boring or they aren't seeing results but that could be from doing only steady-state cardio where you stay between 70-80% MHR over a boring hour. One may need it to build an aerobic base but eventually it's just time spent getting small gains.

From an efficiency standpoint I love interval training. Many do. You can perform a 20 or 30 minute workout and feel like you kicked your butt. My favorite machine is the Cybex Arc Trainer. It has a 1:3 interval program (1 period work to 3 periods rest) where I do about 350 watts work and 125 watts rest. Even on a short 20 minute program you end up doing work for 4 minutes and when work is 350 watts (I'm not an athlete) it does things for your body that stuff at 75% MHR cannot.

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Guest422
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Post by Guest422 » Sun May 29, 2011 6:10 pm

Don't be to concerned with duration, google tabata study there is some interesting data there intensitiy may be more important than duration.
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Post by firstmark » Sun May 29, 2011 10:59 pm

You shouldn't have to work out any where near 5 or 6 days a week just to maintain. One or two days week should be enough to maintain and probably gain. If you wish to maintain you can workout hard and less frequently or just do less than the full reps you can do. If you wish to gain and haven't for so long i suggest drop the whole superset multiset ideology.
Do one set for each exercise and increase weight, reps, cheat reps, or microload by hanging sacks of pennies or what not from the bar so you can gain in some small fashion workout to workout. After you can achieve that then you can try the multiset bodybuilder superset extravaganza.

I would recommend buying a spinlock dumbell handle 16 inch or 18 inch and your own plates. With that you have a lot more options. I would not suggest a smith machine squat as its not a natural movement. Better to do a freeweight squat holding dumbells in your hand if you have to.
You don't have to workout 40 minutes or an hour to get a good workout if you are time rushed.

A good workout or workouts spread throughout the week could consist of
seated rows, chinups, overhead lifts, bench or dips, deadlift or cleans, and a squat variation, and maybe curls. You could add in rows but chinups, dumbell rows, and seated rows are a bit much for that muscle group area. Being in an apartment I take it, means you might not have room or a place to use a 7 foot long barbell, but a dumbell should be easy enough to use. Deadlifts might make noise though so that might be a hard one to fit in even with dumbells so cleans might be a good substitute.

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my method

Post by raisin mountaineer » Sun May 29, 2011 11:33 pm

I think you're not getting enough protein in your proposed breakfast. At least for me, getting off to a nice slow-burning high protein breakfast start is important.

Here's what I eat on weekdays: (approximately)

Breakfast (about 6 a.m.): WW toast (early) and coffee (early). I drink decaf, but I work really hard at getting a placebo effect. I either bicycle to work or go to the gym.

2nd breakfast (about 9 a.m.): Yogurt, granola (Andrew Weil recipe-- high protein/low fat, easy to make), banana

lunch: (about 1 p.m.): two small whole wheat tortillas with melted cheese and salsa, and an orange. I also try to take a walk.

snack (3 p.m.): three girl scout cookies (never said I was perfect)

dinner: (6 p.m.): salad (as big and creative as I can get-- I use a serving bowl. All veggies-- no cheese or fat on this baby. Balsamic vinegar for dressing)

plus protein-- either an omelet or fish, and a whole wheat starch like brown rice, plus a glass of wine or half a beer.

after dinner dessert: one graham cracker with nutella.

With some concerted attention to exercise, and this diet, I have made it to my goal weight, plus I feel good (energized and not hungry all the time).

I'm 52 and female, btw, but I was blessed with a very high metabolism until just a few years ago. I don't really like to or want to diet-- eating frequent small portions seems to work for me.

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Post by KyleAAA » Mon May 30, 2011 9:33 am

I think the simplest answer is: whenever you plateau, it's because your body has adjusted to what you're doing. Have you try COMPLETELY revamping your workout? I don't think it necessarily even matters exactly what you do so long as it's different from what you've been doing. There are almost always a dozen different exercises for any given muscle. Try some of the alternatives.

Not that I'm trying to downplay nutrition. You should fix your nutrition regardless of your workout regimen, but I'm not sure I would necessarily count on that to punch through a plateau.

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Post by Scott S » Mon May 30, 2011 11:15 pm

leonard wrote:
tc101 wrote:Experiment with getting more rest. Remember that muscle growth happens during rest, not during exercise. There was a recent Mr. Universe who only worked out 3 days a week. Sorry I can't remember his name but he said this in a TV interview.


I think it was Mike Mentzer with his Heavy Duty training.


Actually, working out only three days a week was very common in the early days of bodybuilding. Guys like Reg Park would do three fullbody workouts a week, and avoid hard "failure" during their sets. This gave plenty of time to recuperate and grow.

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Post by RaleighStClaire » Tue May 31, 2011 9:43 am

KyleAAA wrote:I think the simplest answer is: whenever you plateau, it's because your body has adjusted to what you're doing. Have you try COMPLETELY revamping your workout? I don't think it necessarily even matters exactly what you do so long as it's different from what you've been doing. There are almost always a dozen different exercises for any given muscle. Try some of the alternatives.

Not that I'm trying to downplay nutrition. You should fix your nutrition regardless of your workout regimen, but I'm not sure I would necessarily count on that to punch through a plateau.


Been away so haven't had a change to respond to this thread for a while.

Kyle, I agree that it's time to revamp my whole workout. I *try* to change it up every couple of months but that's easier said than done. In March I changed my previous workout to just focus on the best exercises like benchpress, pullups, squats and rows and that's what I've been doing since. As of a couple weeks ago I started to do more leg work as well. I've added box jumps and whatever it's called where you hold weights and take a step onto a bench and then come back down. Also sometimes I hold 40lbs in each hand and squat and then jump as high as I can go. That's a killer exercise. This is all in my quest to be able to dunk a basketball on a 10' rim. Progress is being made in that, at least.

General question, on days when I am not working out should I be consuming the same or less protein than on days when I'm working out?

I've seen some comments in this thread about protein and the pros and cons. Everything that I've read on my own makes it seem like it's a no-brainer must-have if you are working out. Every single independent study seems to come to the same conclusions that ample protein intake is a must for athletics, regardless of goal. I buy the stuff at Costco which happens to be my favorite, and I've tried many. 130 calories per scoop, 1g sugar, 27g protein, 65mg sodium. I drink 2 scoops in water after workout which is 54g. At 185lbs I should be intaking about 200g+ of protein per day which is pretty hard to do without that 54g shot at once.

novastepp: Thanks for your comments. Do you think I should be consuming more than 2 scoops of protein per day? I don't think I could even eat 2 scoops with oatmeal in the morning considering I get so full just from the oatmeal. Also, I thought that slow carbs like oatmeal were worse to have after a workout and that it's better to have fast carbs like bread or fruit with your post-workout protein shake? I doubt that it's ever really bad to eat oatmeal but I was under the impression that it was worse to have it then. Glad that you think my proposed diet looks relatively solid.
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novastepp
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Post by novastepp » Tue May 31, 2011 9:51 am

RaleighStClaire wrote:
KyleAAA wrote:I think the simplest answer is: whenever you plateau, it's because your body has adjusted to what you're doing. Have you try COMPLETELY revamping your workout? I don't think it necessarily even matters exactly what you do so long as it's different from what you've been doing. There are almost always a dozen different exercises for any given muscle. Try some of the alternatives.

Not that I'm trying to downplay nutrition. You should fix your nutrition regardless of your workout regimen, but I'm not sure I would necessarily count on that to punch through a plateau.


Been away so haven't had a change to respond to this thread for a while.

Kyle, I agree that it's time to revamp my whole workout. I *try* to change it up every couple of months but that's easier said than done. In March I changed my previous workout to just focus on the best exercises like benchpress, pullups, squats and rows and that's what I've been doing since. As of a couple weeks ago I started to do more leg work as well. I've added box jumps and whatever it's called where you hold weights and take a step onto a bench and then come back down. Also sometimes I hold 40lbs in each hand and squat and then jump as high as I can go. That's a killer exercise. This is all in my quest to be able to dunk a basketball on a 10' rim. Progress is being made in that, at least.

General question, on days when I am not working out should I be consuming the same or less protein than on days when I'm working out?

I've seen some comments in this thread about protein and the pros and cons. Everything that I've read on my own makes it seem like it's a no-brainer must-have if you are working out. Every single independent study seems to come to the same conclusions that ample protein intake is a must for athletics, regardless of goal. I buy the stuff at Costco which happens to be my favorite, and I've tried many. 130 calories per scoop, 1g sugar, 27g protein, 65mg sodium. I drink 2 scoops in water after workout which is 54g. At 185lbs I should be intaking about 200g+ of protein per day which is pretty hard to do without that 54g shot at once.

novastepp: Thanks for your comments. Do you think I should be consuming more than 2 scoops of protein per day? I don't think I could even eat 2 scoops with oatmeal in the morning considering I get so full just from the oatmeal. Also, I thought that slow carbs like oatmeal were worse to have after a workout and that it's better to have fast carbs like bread or fruit with your post-workout protein shake? I doubt that it's ever really bad to eat oatmeal but I was under the impression that it was worse to have it then. Glad that you think my proposed diet looks relatively solid.


As far as protein consumption goes, many elite athleteswork toward 1.5g of protein per pound of lean body mass.

And yes, you can incorporate more protein powder into your diet, it will only help your musculoskeltal system and nervous system recover.

As ar as the protein with oatmeal in teh morning, your body is in starvation mode and those carbs and protein are only going to stop cortisol and continue protein synthesis and glycogen replenishment. You can get it down!

After a workout, the use of quick-digesting carbs is used mainly by those who use insulin and/or GH post-workout. For someone building their body naturally, any source of carbohydrates will do. These are to help continue glycogen replenishment over the next 48 hours, so don't worry about which "type" of carb you are using. I just prefer and recommend using high fiber, low GI load carbohydrates such as potatoes and oats at all times. This also maintains a steady insulin release throughout the day, which studies have shown to contribute to the ability of your body to burn fat.

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Post by RaleighStClaire » Tue May 31, 2011 10:59 am

I'll try and get it down then, lol.

So 4 scoops/day sounds like a reasonable amount then, in your view?

I was reading some of your comments in the diet advice link that you posted and it seems super important to balance the protein carbs and fat each meal. I'll try and work at that as well.
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Post by Triple digit golfer » Tue May 31, 2011 6:49 pm

novastepp,

Potatoes are not a low GI food. They are a medium to high GI food, depending on how they're cooked. Baked potatoes are extremely high. Boiled is medium.

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novastepp
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Post by novastepp » Tue May 31, 2011 6:54 pm

Triple digit golfer wrote:novastepp,

Potatoes are not a low GI food. They are a medium to high GI food, depending on how they're cooked. Baked potatoes are extremely high. Boiled is medium.


Your talking about the glycemic index, which is inaccurate in determine teh effects of carbohydrates; this is a common misconception propogated mainly from the media and popular reading. However potatoes (tubers) provide a low GI load and produce a lower stream of insulin over time; producing greater insulin sensitivity. Potatoes are, and should be, the recommended carbohydrate for any dieter, athlete or not. Combine those benefits with the lowest GI interactions for food allergies (bloating, water retention, etc) tubers become the obvious choice.

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novastepp
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Post by novastepp » Tue May 31, 2011 6:56 pm

RaleighStClaire wrote:I'll try and get it down then, lol.

So 4 scoops/day sounds like a reasonable amount then, in your view?

I was reading some of your comments in the diet advice link that you posted and it seems super important to balance the protein carbs and fat each meal. I'll try and work at that as well.


4 scoops a day isn't much at all when considering a 6-meal plan. Especially if they are used either in your first meal, and around workouts. The rapid digestion is definitely one of the greatest benefits of using a protein supplement at those times.

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Post by Triple digit golfer » Tue May 31, 2011 6:59 pm

novastepp wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:novastepp,

Potatoes are not a low GI food. They are a medium to high GI food, depending on how they're cooked. Baked potatoes are extremely high. Boiled is medium.


Your talking about the glycemic index, which is inaccurate in determine teh effects of carbohydrates; this is a common misconception propogated mainly from the media and popular reading. However potatoes (tubers) provide a low GI load and produce a lower stream of insulin over time; producing greater insulin sensitivity. Potatoes are, and should be, the recommended carbohydrate for any dieter, athlete or not. Combine those benefits with the lowest GI interactions for food allergies (bloating, water retention, etc) tubers become the obvious choice.


You lost me!

I eat a lot of sweet potatoes. Just tell me...good or bad?

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Post by RaleighStClaire » Tue May 31, 2011 8:59 pm

Triple digit golfer wrote:
novastepp wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:novastepp,

Potatoes are not a low GI food. They are a medium to high GI food, depending on how they're cooked. Baked potatoes are extremely high. Boiled is medium.


Your talking about the glycemic index, which is inaccurate in determine teh effects of carbohydrates; this is a common misconception propogated mainly from the media and popular reading. However potatoes (tubers) provide a low GI load and produce a lower stream of insulin over time; producing greater insulin sensitivity. Potatoes are, and should be, the recommended carbohydrate for any dieter, athlete or not. Combine those benefits with the lowest GI interactions for food allergies (bloating, water retention, etc) tubers become the obvious choice.


You lost me!

I eat a lot of sweet potatoes. Just tell me...good or bad?


I think that's good. I sure hope so because I love me a sweet potato.

Better carb than brown rice or quinoa, though?
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leonard
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Post by leonard » Tue May 31, 2011 9:29 pm

leonard wrote:Better shape can be a lot of different things:

1. Absolute strength
2. Better cardio/endurance
3. A blend of Strength and cardio/endurance,
4. And, any sport specific combination of the above.

So, no one can really give you answers until you define "better shape" for you. BTW - your diet will also likely differ depending on how you define "better shape" as well.


OP - btw - you never answered this question. "Better Shape" depends on what the goal is. Better shape looks much different for a sprinter vs marathoner vs powerlifter.

So, what's your goal?
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

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novastepp
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Post by novastepp » Tue May 31, 2011 9:53 pm

Triple digit golfer wrote:
novastepp wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:novastepp,

Potatoes are not a low GI food. They are a medium to high GI food, depending on how they're cooked. Baked potatoes are extremely high. Boiled is medium.


Your talking about the glycemic index, which is inaccurate in determine teh effects of carbohydrates; this is a common misconception propogated mainly from the media and popular reading. However potatoes (tubers) provide a low GI load and produce a lower stream of insulin over time; producing greater insulin sensitivity. Potatoes are, and should be, the recommended carbohydrate for any dieter, athlete or not. Combine those benefits with the lowest GI interactions for food allergies (bloating, water retention, etc) tubers become the obvious choice.


You lost me!

I eat a lot of sweet potatoes. Just tell me...good or bad?


Personally: best carbohydrate possible.

I know many many nutritional advisors who also agree.

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novastepp
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Post by novastepp » Tue May 31, 2011 10:01 pm

RaleighStClaire wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:
novastepp wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:novastepp,

Potatoes are not a low GI food. They are a medium to high GI food, depending on how they're cooked. Baked potatoes are extremely high. Boiled is medium.


Your talking about the glycemic index, which is inaccurate in determine teh effects of carbohydrates; this is a common misconception propogated mainly from the media and popular reading. However potatoes (tubers) provide a low GI load and produce a lower stream of insulin over time; producing greater insulin sensitivity. Potatoes are, and should be, the recommended carbohydrate for any dieter, athlete or not. Combine those benefits with the lowest GI interactions for food allergies (bloating, water retention, etc) tubers become the obvious choice.


You lost me!

I eat a lot of sweet potatoes. Just tell me...good or bad?


I think that's good. I sure hope so because I love me a sweet potato.

Better carb than brown rice or quinoa, though?


Brown rice has a high allergen component. Even if you aren't "allergic" in the popular sense, it will produce some allergy-style effects in teh long term. All these amount to are a decreased capacity to digest and absorb the beneficial nutrients wiithin the grain.

Quinoa is a great grain due to its bioavailability, but I am unsure of its allergy profile and its GI load. I will look it up and ask some questions. Its bioavailability is up there with a properly cooked egg, which happens to be the best for humans.

Honestly, sweet potatoes appear to be higher on teh glycemic index, and popular knowledge has discouraged their use a little. However, if you venture into the rhelm of competitive athletes you will find that specific data regarding the use of sweet potatoes actually encourages their EXCLUSIVE use among many athletes.

I, myself, used them exclusively as my carbohydrate source in preparation for a lifting competition in 2006. I lowered my body fat to below 6%. Sweet potatoes are still a staple in my daily diet and that does not change whether recompositioning my body to cut fat, or whether I increase my daily calorie load in an attempt to gain lean muscle mass.

Triple digit golfer
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Post by Triple digit golfer » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:57 am

novastepp wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:
novastepp wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:novastepp,

Potatoes are not a low GI food. They are a medium to high GI food, depending on how they're cooked. Baked potatoes are extremely high. Boiled is medium.


Your talking about the glycemic index, which is inaccurate in determine teh effects of carbohydrates; this is a common misconception propogated mainly from the media and popular reading. However potatoes (tubers) provide a low GI load and produce a lower stream of insulin over time; producing greater insulin sensitivity. Potatoes are, and should be, the recommended carbohydrate for any dieter, athlete or not. Combine those benefits with the lowest GI interactions for food allergies (bloating, water retention, etc) tubers become the obvious choice.


You lost me!

I eat a lot of sweet potatoes. Just tell me...good or bad?


Personally: best carbohydrate possible.

I know many many nutritional advisors who also agree.


Outstanding! They're my dinner carb just about every night, along with some vegetables and either some chicken or pork.

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RaleighStClaire
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Post by RaleighStClaire » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:21 am

Time to for a trip to costco to buy 10lbs of sweet potatoes :)

nova: how do you feel about aspartame? I drink a lot of diet coke which I should have probably mentioned before. Obviously water would be better but it's one of my vices, I suppose. I've seen fitness experts suggest using splenda in the past and my guess is that everyone has different (and strong) opinions one way or another about it.

leonard: my goal is to cut fat while maintaining muscle composition. Ideally I'd like to gain muscle as well but that's not nearly as important. Focusing on my diet seemed like the crucial starting point since I work out regularly and eat well...but I knew that I didn't eat well enough.
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Post by HFWR » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:52 am

I'm no powerlifter, unless you consider 12oz curls...

But it's my understanding that to bulk up you lift heavy, and eat everything in sight. To "cut", get rid of all sugars, i.e. milk (lactose), fruit (glucose, fructose), and reduce carbs overall.

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Post by RaleighStClaire » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:13 am

I created a spreadsheet with the foods that I plan to eat to help keep track of what I'm eating. Here is what I will be eating today:

Image


What do you think? Meal 4 is post-workout. Today was a slight anomaly since there was a lot of extra grilled chicken from leftovers. I hope my reference numbers are right. There seems to be a lot of conflicting numbers out there wrt chicken.
Last edited by RaleighStClaire on Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CaliJim
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Post by CaliJim » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:21 am

..
Last edited by CaliJim on Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

arthurb999
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Post by arthurb999 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:44 pm

CaliJim wrote:Food: Paleo Diet

Exercise: Starting Strength

Recovery: 8+ hours of rack time every night

Read: "Practical Programming for Strength Training" for more help in understanding what's going on with your body and what to do about it.

Other good books: Starting Strength, The Primal Blue Print, Good Calories Bad Calories, The Paleo Solution.

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Post by novastepp » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:58 pm

[quote="RaleighStClaire"]Time to for a trip to costco to buy 10lbs of sweet potatoes :)

nova: how do you feel about aspartame? I drink a lot of diet coke which I should have probably mentioned before. Obviously water would be better but it's one of my vices, I suppose. I've seen fitness experts suggest using splenda in the past and my guess is that everyone has different (and strong) opinions one way or another about it.

leonard: my goal is to cut fat while maintaining muscle composition. Ideally I'd like to gain muscle as well but that's not nearly as important. Focusing on my diet seemed like the crucial starting point since I work out regularly and eat well...but I knew that I didn't eat well enough.[/quote

People will swear and condemn the use of artificial sugars, but in the link I gave you we give ample information that their use is not a carcinogen as often depicted. Splenda (chlorinated sugars) and aspartame sweeteners are not a health concern when used in moderation. I use artificial sugars to maintain my blood sugar levels as opposed to using straight sugar or dextrose.

But it is worth mentioning that the overuse (broad use, I know) of diet sodas can erode tooth enamel for one, and two, can be detrimental to the absorption of vitamins and minerals from your diet. So, my position is to use them when you crave something sweet, but not as a substitute to water.

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Post by novastepp » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:04 pm

HFWR wrote:I'm no powerlifter, unless you consider 12oz curls...

But it's my understanding that to bulk up you lift heavy, and eat everything in sight. To "cut", get rid of all sugars, i.e. milk (lactose), fruit (glucose, fructose), and reduce carbs overall.


DIfferent muscle fibers have different load capacities. Heavy reps between 1-3 reps activate different fibers than lifts using a 10-12 rep range. COmmonly, lifters will run a 3 week circuit of hypertrophy training, in which they specifically lift to near failure in the 10-12 rep range. This is designated as the hypertrophy area for muscle fibers. But again, other fibers (shorter fibers) are activated in higher volume/lower rep ranges.

Why it is commonly mentioned that lifting heavy is what makes you bulky is the fact that many exercisers rarely use the muscle fibers that are activated from heavier lifting. So, a heavy lifter will activate and grow different/additional muscle fibers than a lifter who avoids heavy weights. That being said, a lifter of any volume and repitition can gain size and strength.

As far as cutting carbs from a diet: this can be discussed to death. I have found that I utilize carbs for bulking and cutting and have had great results with both. The link I included earlier on this page is a great resource for information regarding the use of carbs when adding muscle or losing fat.

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Post by novastepp » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:07 pm

RaleighStClaire wrote:I created a spreadsheet with the foods that I plan to eat to help keep track of what I'm eating. Here is what I will be eating today:

Image


What do you think? Meal 4 is post-workout. Today was a slight anomaly since there was a lot of extra grilled chicken from leftovers. I hope my reference numbers are right. There seems to be a lot of conflicting numbers out there wrt chicken.


Your choices are great. Personally, the biggest change I would make would be to switch meal 5 and 3. You want carbs before and after your workouts. A meal with slightly more fats is great before bed to help with satiation over night.

That being said, I would also add the same serving size of oats as meal one, to meal 4, the pwo meal. If there was ever a time NOT to skimp on carbs, the pwo meal would be it.

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Post by RaleighStClaire » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:33 pm

novastepp wrote:Your choices are great. Personally, the biggest change I would make would be to switch meal 5 and 3. You want carbs before and after your workouts. A meal with slightly more fats is great before bed to help with satiation over night.

That being said, I would also add the same serving size of oats as meal one, to meal 4, the pwo meal. If there was ever a time NOT to skimp on carbs, the pwo meal would be it.


Thanks for the feedback, nova. I really appreciate it. I think I'm only on page 4 or so with that thread you linked to but it has really great info in it and I've learned a lot.

Okay, I'll definitely try and add the carbs to the pwo meal as well. What about on days where I don't work out -- how do my meals change?

Also how much fat, carbs and protein should I be shooting for on a daily basis? I realize that you probably need more info about me and my goals before you can give a solid answer but do my ratios look reasonable in what I ate today?

It's kind of amazing to me that after just a few days of eating like this that I already feel slimmer. I went on a big sweet potato kick a year ago where I ate a giant on every day and I remember seeing similar results which I attributed to the sweet potatoes at the time, but now understand how much it helps. Getting such a filling complex carb from one low-calorie source is vital.
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Post by Triple digit golfer » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:40 am

It is my opinion that your diet has too much protein and not enough carbs. Barely over 30% of your calories from carbohydrates is not enough, in my opinion. I'd shoot for at least 40% and as high as 50%. Otherwise you may begin to feel tired quicker in your workouts if they're very intense.

Just my opinion. I'm far from an expert, as you could see.

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Post by novastepp » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:29 pm

RaleighStClaire wrote:
novastepp wrote:Your choices are great. Personally, the biggest change I would make would be to switch meal 5 and 3. You want carbs before and after your workouts. A meal with slightly more fats is great before bed to help with satiation over night.

That being said, I would also add the same serving size of oats as meal one, to meal 4, the pwo meal. If there was ever a time NOT to skimp on carbs, the pwo meal would be it.


Thanks for the feedback, nova. I really appreciate it. I think I'm only on page 4 or so with that thread you linked to but it has really great info in it and I've learned a lot.

Okay, I'll definitely try and add the carbs to the pwo meal as well. What about on days where I don't work out -- how do my meals change?

Also how much fat, carbs and protein should I be shooting for on a daily basis? I realize that you probably need more info about me and my goals before you can give a solid answer but do my ratios look reasonable in what I ate today?

It's kind of amazing to me that after just a few days of eating like this that I already feel slimmer. I went on a big sweet potato kick a year ago where I ate a giant on every day and I remember seeing similar results which I attributed to the sweet potatoes at the time, but now understand how much it helps. Getting such a filling complex carb from one low-calorie source is vital.


The psychological boost of a well planned diet is a great benefit.

I usually shoot for a ratio of 45/45/10 (protein/carbs/fat) in my diet. Other tweak those numbers a bit. You could always start with 1.5g of protein per body weight and go from there.

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Post by ryuns » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:38 pm

novastepp, why so low on fat? Fat is getting good reviews lately, and it tastes good ;) http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/0 ... ying-lean/
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton

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Post by novastepp » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:32 pm

ryuns wrote:novastepp, why so low on fat? Fat is getting good reviews lately, and it tastes good ;) http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/0 ... ying-lean/


To me and many, fat provides little to the athlete above about 5-10g per meal and/or beyond 50g a day for anyone from 175-225lbs.

Fat does keep one satiated longer, and that is why I recommend that if one was to use fat as a majority macro in a meal, to do so before bed. beyond that, the benefits of high protein high carb greatly outweigh the need for any added fat. Athletes of all levels and disciplines can successfully accomplish all of their goals with this approach.

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