Mexico Dangers

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
kraftwerk
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Post by kraftwerk »

curly lambeau wrote:
eucalyptus wrote:Indeed! Sily people, spooked by a few beheadings, police killings, general lawlessness and the occasional mass grave.
What, no heads on sticks placed in front of the elementary school?

Did you know that six months ago, 7 people were shot in a single unsolved crime at a bar only 2 miles from the President of the United States' home in Chicago and not a single witness or (surviving) victim would talk to the police? Or that for over a decade some of our police used a hand crank electro torture device in interrogations (including gaining confessions in capital crimes)?

STAY OUT OF CHICAGO!

(not a response to you in particular, eucalyptus):
Americans citing gory anecdotes of cinematic violence and travesties of law enforcement as an argument against travel is really an irony bomb of epic proportions. Please consider the anecdotes about this country available to the Norwegian or Swede or Japanese considering whether they ought to visit. Or to emphasize the ignored part of the original poster's criticism of her sister's worldview ---some people seem to operate under the illusion that the people and culture of the US is equivalent to Norway.

If what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it seems no Norwegian should be visiting here.
There's a long list of places I stay out of in this country. I've been to Sweden and lived in the UK and it does not compare at all to here. I consider the US something akin to South Africa with a thicker veneer of civility. Like I said I carry a glock 19 when I leave the house because every night the local news is just a list of armed robberies and home invasions. Two people were stabbed in a home invasion 2 miles from my house yesterday. I would never feel the need to carry a gun in Sweden (except maybe some parts of Malmo).

People should be wary in America.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lives.html
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goggles
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Post by goggles »

eucalyptus wrote: Indeed! Sily people, spooked by a few beheadings, police killings, general lawlessness and the occasional mass grave. By all means take your vacation in beautiful Mexico and post your pics; I travel a lot, too, I'll look at the pics from my hotel in Locarno.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles ... 0escalates
Did you notice what you did there? You referred to Mexico as a country and then compared it to a specific city. Are you aware that Mexico is almost 50 times as big as Switzerland, with almost 15 times as many people? (And you're only talking about one small city in this small country!) This is called an apples to oranges comparison. I never denied that there is drug-related crime in Mexico. Perhaps you have observed that this drug-related crime exists solely because of traffic to the United States. Are you cowering inside right now because of this menace?

Stop painting with a broad brush and tone down the hysteria. Again, turn off your TV and stop panicking.
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tadamsmar
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Post by tadamsmar »

What about those reckless Canadians who visit the USA?

The USA has 5 times the murder rate. Are these people suicidal?
vlad
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Post by vlad »

I just watched the TV news. Based on the objective information purveyed there, I am going to stay away from any countries that have people who don't look like me and don't speak English. I also am avoiding all US cities, colleges, banks and fast food chains, because there is a lot of crime in those places. Any place that could have volcanoes, tornadoes, earthquakes, nuclear accidents, or terrorists are also out. Plus areas where there are bugs, unless they are frequently sprayed with very potent insecticide. So I guess the only safe places to visit are some US suburbs (everybody knows they are crime-free), Sweden, Switzerland, and parts of Canada. But only if I can drive there, protected by my Hummer, because smaller cars and airplanes are unsafe. Or maybe I will just hide in my bomb shelter with my guns and provisions, where foreigners and mother nature can't find me.
new2bogle
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Post by new2bogle »

kraftwerk wrote:
curly lambeau wrote:
eucalyptus wrote:Indeed! Sily people, spooked by a few beheadings, police killings, general lawlessness and the occasional mass grave.
What, no heads on sticks placed in front of the elementary school?

Did you know that six months ago, 7 people were shot in a single unsolved crime at a bar only 2 miles from the President of the United States' home in Chicago and not a single witness or (surviving) victim would talk to the police? Or that for over a decade some of our police used a hand crank electro torture device in interrogations (including gaining confessions in capital crimes)?

STAY OUT OF CHICAGO!

(not a response to you in particular, eucalyptus):
Americans citing gory anecdotes of cinematic violence and travesties of law enforcement as an argument against travel is really an irony bomb of epic proportions. Please consider the anecdotes about this country available to the Norwegian or Swede or Japanese considering whether they ought to visit. Or to emphasize the ignored part of the original poster's criticism of her sister's worldview ---some people seem to operate under the illusion that the people and culture of the US is equivalent to Norway.

If what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it seems no Norwegian should be visiting here.
There's a long list of places I stay out of in this country. I've been to Sweden and lived in the UK and it does not compare at all to here. I consider the US something akin to South Africa with a thicker veneer of civility. Like I said I carry a glock 19 when I leave the house because every night the local news is just a list of armed robberies and home invasions. Two people were stabbed in a home invasion 2 miles from my house yesterday. I would never feel the need to carry a gun in Sweden (except maybe some parts of Malmo).

People should be wary in America.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lives.html
May I ask what city you live in? I've lived in pretty iffy parts of the U.S. (Detroit, parts of NC, TX) and used my judgement when going out (like not going out after dark in some parts of the RDU area and Detroit). Once, we did get lost in Detroit after 10PM (real Detroit, not the burbs). I was driving and did not stop at any lights or stop signs (could see no traffic anywhere). Run down houses, buildings everywhere - who knew what was going on in the darkness.

In any case, the U.S. isn't South Africa. I've never been to South Africa, but the stats I've seen from there are much worse than the U.S.
infecto
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Post by infecto »

kraftwerk wrote: There's a long list of places I stay out of in this country. I've been to Sweden and lived in the UK and it does not compare at all to here. I consider the US something akin to South Africa with a thicker veneer of civility. Like I said I carry a glock 19 when I leave the house because every night the local news is just a list of armed robberies and home invasions. Two people were stabbed in a home invasion 2 miles from my house yesterday. I would never feel the need to carry a gun in Sweden (except maybe some parts of Malmo).

People should be wary in America.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lives.html
Have you ever been to South Africa? The US is nothing even close. I think that sums up your feelings for Latin America though.
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NightOwl
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Post by NightOwl »

goggles wrote:This thread is frankly absurd.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Absolutely absurd. Stunningly parochial. At least now I understand why I see so many "the sky is falling" threads on this forum.

The world is chock full of people selling fear, and we all buy way too much of it.

NightOwl
"Volatility provokes the constant dread that some investors know more than we do, making us fearful of ignoring such powerful price movements." | Peter Bernstein, "The 60/40 Solution."
Glenn
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Post by Glenn »

I am struck by the intensity of fear exhibited in this thread. I'm going to spend several weeks camping in southern Africa this summer. I tell this to people and they are shocked, ask if I'm not afraid of lions, leopards, elephants, etc., and commenting on how brave I am.

Hogwash. My approach to such matters is to educate myself, take reasonable precautions to balance risk and rewards, and also recognize that lots of other people seem to be able to do this.

Remember "Barbara Tuchman's Law", from her book "A Distant Mirror":

"Disaster is rarely as pervasive as it seems from recorded accounts. The fact of being on the record makes it appear continuous and ubiquitous whereas it is more likely to have been sporadic both in time and place. Besides, persistence of the normal is usually greater than the effect of the disturbance, as we know from our own times. After absorbing the news of today, one expects to face a world consisting entirely of strikes, crimes, power failures, broken water mains, stalled trains, school shutdowns, muggers, drug addicts, neo-Nazis, and rapists. The fact is that one can come home in the evening, on a lucky day, without having encountered more than one or two of these phenomena. This has led me to formulate Tuchman's Law, as follows: "The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold (or any figure the reader would care to supply)."
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Exige
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Post by Exige »

Just booked our honeymoon in playa del carmen for august this year cant wait!!!!

Guess at least if I die ill be happy and married LOL
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curly lambeau
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Post by curly lambeau »

vlad wrote:I just watched the TV news. Based on the objective information purveyed there, I am going to stay away from any countries that have people who don't look like me and don't speak English. I also am avoiding all US cities, colleges, banks and fast food chains, because there is a lot of crime in those places. Any place that could have volcanoes, tornadoes, earthquakes, nuclear accidents, or terrorists are also out. Plus areas where there are bugs, unless they are frequently sprayed with very potent insecticide. So I guess the only safe places to visit are some US suburbs (everybody knows they are crime-free), Sweden, Switzerland, and parts of Canada. But only if I can drive there, protected by my Hummer, because smaller cars and airplanes are unsafe. Or maybe I will just hide in my bomb shelter with my guns and provisions, where foreigners and mother nature can't find me.
Hummer, singular?

If married with kids, I highly recommend separate Hummers. That way if you suffer a lethal carjacking, your kids aren't orphans.
harrychan
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Post by harrychan »

General statistics do not accurately portray what we are dealing with here. You need statistics on how often tourists are robbed, mugged, murdered, and raped when in a different country. Even though I am from Asian descent, it doesn't take a rocket scientist in China to figure out I am not local and native. Once I exit the train station, people swarm me for taxi and beggars follow me until I get on my transportation.

When my wife and I went to Cabo San Lucas for our vacation a few years ago, we felt generally safe in the tourist areas but there were occasions where we felt out of place and if we could do it again, would avoid. A local tour guide befriended us and offered to take us to different locations. Little did we know that his goal was to get us to sit in on pitches to time share. A friend gave us a heads up before we left and we adamantly refused. He became hostile after we refused and ditched us at the shopping center. Luckily we were able to find our way back to the hotel but who would've known what would happen if we left us alone in the middle of the highway.

With that said, you will probably see more Americans than you would see local Mexicans at Cancun. Stay in the local area, don't venture out, and be wary of anyone who may appear overly friendly as you may not know of their intentions.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
fridaie
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We just returned from Cancun

Post by fridaie »

We were there for my son's wedding. There were 70 guests and no one had any problems or scares.
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curly lambeau
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Post by curly lambeau »

A local tour guide befriended us and offered to take us to different locations. Little did we know that his goal was to get us to sit in on pitches to time share. A friend gave us a heads up before we left and we adamantly refused. He became hostile after we refused and ditched us at the shopping center. Luckily we were able to find our way back to the hotel but who would've known what would happen if we left us alone in the middle of the highway.
A scam known the world over, and you're now a little wiser. :)

In India, just substitute shops for timeshares.

It's great to make friends in foreign countries. Your antenna should prick up when they right away start offering to take you places.
fridaie
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Post by fridaie »

We just returned from Cancun. We were there for my son's wedding. We had 70 guests. No one had any security concerns or issues while we were there.
eucalyptus
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Post by eucalyptus »

goggles wrote:
eucalyptus wrote: Indeed! Sily people, spooked by a few beheadings, police killings, general lawlessness and the occasional mass grave. By all means take your vacation in beautiful Mexico and post your pics; I travel a lot, too, I'll look at the pics from my hotel in Locarno.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles ... 0escalates
Did you notice what you did there? You referred to Mexico as a country and then compared it to a specific city. Are you aware that Mexico is almost 50 times as big as Switzerland, with almost 15 times as many people? (And you're only talking about one small city in this small country!) This is called an apples to oranges comparison. I never denied that there is drug-related crime in Mexico. Perhaps you have observed that this drug-related crime exists solely because of traffic to the United States. Are you cowering inside right now because of this menace?

Stop painting with a broad brush and tone down the hysteria. Again, turn off your TV and stop panicking.



Mexico's problems extend far beyond "drug related crime." The Mexican federal government finds it necessary to assert that it is in control of not insubstantial parts of its territory. Some federal and local institutions seem to have been infiltrated by drug cartels.

Here's a fun map, though it may be a bit dated:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126890893

One could go on and on and on about the pervasive influence of organized crime in Mexico - the country is a mess. One could call Italy dysfunctional, and affected by organized crime (and a most entertaining premier), and in many respects it is - but it's a lot safer than Mexico.

Like I said, by all means visit beautiful Mexico and post photos of your trip; certainly Mexico is an interesting place. The Yucatan Peninsula, which I've never visited, has to be one of the world's more remarkable sites. Here is Yucatan's own take on the violence and its effect on tourism, making the same arguments many have made here:

http://yucatantoday.com/en/topics/travel-safety-yucatan

Here are the apples and oranges, at least for me: I have a big world of places to go, and I can't imagine why I would bother with Mexico. FWIW, my next stop, in about 3 weeks, is Croatia. I didn't visit Croatia in 1991-1992, though no doubt some here would have called me a coward for avoiding the country back then and observed that "the shelling is limited to a handful of cities ...."
eucalyptus
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Post by eucalyptus »

eucalyptus
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Post by eucalyptus »

On the other hand, for a city by city assessment of the dangers of visiting the US, see:

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/consei ... index.html

Pretty entertaining, and some good advice in there as well.
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Teetlebaum
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Post by Teetlebaum »

eucalyptus wrote:On the other hand, for a city by city assessment of the dangers of visiting the US, see:

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/consei ... index.html

Pretty entertaining, and some good advice in there as well.

Thanks. I'm particularly grateful for the warning about shark attacks. :lol:
eucalyptus
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Post by eucalyptus »

Teetlebaum wrote:
eucalyptus wrote:On the other hand, for a city by city assessment of the dangers of visiting the US, see:

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/consei ... index.html

Pretty entertaining, and some good advice in there as well.

Thanks. I'm particularly grateful for the warning about shark attacks. :lol:

A thorough overview, with maps!
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Rob5TCP
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by Rob5TCP »

A friend, told me last week, that he was thinking of going with his gf to Mexico. I remembered a discussion of safety so I checked and clipped this one and sent it to him. I also included an article that was on MSNBC about the tripling of murders in Acapulco. While parts of Mexico may be safe, it seems to be headed in the wrong direction.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45363491/ns ... -americas/
supersharpie
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by supersharpie »

My wife and I are flying into Cancun in May for a destination wedding and spending four nights in Playa Del Carmen. As long as tourists don't start getting killed in that area of Mexico then we aren't going to alter our plans. You can't live your life in fear.
deerhunter
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by deerhunter »

Cancun would be safe enough if you stay in the tourist area. I would never travel in Mexico. We stay two months, not far from the border at South Padre Island Texas. We do go to Progresso, which is a town on the borderi in Mexico that caters to us Winter Texans. It is also safe for now. We read the local Texas newspapers and hear about all the murders and crime that happens on both sides of the border. Go to this link and read this newspaper every day and you won't travel in Mexico and you will use a lot of caution traveling close to the border in Texas. You don't hear about this stuff except in the local newspapers. http://www.valleymorningstar.com/
Living off the land is a family tradition.
newbie001
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by newbie001 »

I think one thing that deserves mention is that, while the U.S. has some cities certain portions of which are Third World hellholes, I (and most other Americans) can identify them immediately if we enter them. I certainly wouldn't be confident that I could do the same if I were in a foreign country. Those poor Brits who were gunned down in Florida (linked up thread) are probably dead as a result of ignorance about local turf.

Second, the fact that one can travel to a foreign country with a low chance of anything bad happening hardly settles the question. If my chances of getting robbed or running into corrupt cops in Mexico is 1 in 50, and my chances of the same happening in Norway is 1 in 500, very rational people could weigh that as a heavy negative for Mexico.

OP, FWIW, I would avoid Mexico unless you're in a touristy area all the time or you're with someone you trust and who knows the area well . Never been to Cuba, but I've heard good thing about it from people who've visited. I would avoid the slums of Rio, NGO or not, at all costs.
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dave66
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by dave66 »

I've lived in SoCal for 25 years. Mexico has traditionally been the playground to get away to for people in this area for decades. Now? I personally would not go there. Period. Neither would most people I know. But if I had to, I'd fly into the strictly tourist spots to the south. I would avoid the areas to the north and especially anywhere near the border. I would not drive across. A good portion of the people who live there are terrified and want to get out, so what does that tell you?
RedJones
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by RedJones »

The question to ask is not how dangerous Mexico is, but whether the risk is worth it for a mere vacation. Although I have had some fine ones in my time, vacations are just not very important in the scheme of things. It is unfathomable to me, for example, that some people regard vacations as important enough to get into debt for. Similarly, a vacation cannot be worth the amount of risk it takes three pages of discussion to assess.
nekiuk
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by nekiuk »

I own a little house in a tiny Mayan village between Cancun and the Belize border. I was there in May and August, and will go again in December. I drive around in a little rental car by myself, and have never, ever had any problem. Almost everybody is nice, they go out of their way to try to understand my abominable Spanish, and the only time people try to fleece me is in very touristy areas, like the Cancun hotel zone. The only time I got robbed was when I put my iPod in my checked luggage, and it was gone when I came home. I have not crossed the Belize border, but I have been close to it and it didn't feel any less safe. I have seen one police checkpoint with machine guns (outside Chetumal), but I think they are mostly there for show. They certainly didn't check anyone any time I was there.

It is a different matter when you want to drive around close to the US border, or close to Mexico City. Roadblocks become more frequent west of Campeche, and I have not ventured beyond that. Yucatan, however, is almost entirely a safe and friendly place.

"If they want to visit a Latin American country the should think about Costa Rica. It is safe and beautiful. "

And very expensive. If they have money to burn (and don't mind the constant company of lots of American families) Costa Rica is great. Yucatan is safe, beautiful, cheaper and a lot less well-traveled.
Topic Author
kraftwerk
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Re: Mexico Dangers

Post by kraftwerk »

I forgot about this thread.

The vacation was fine however they pretty much stayed off the mainland. Isla Mujheres and some other ones further south I forgot the name of, then down to Caye Caulker in Belize. All in all they said it was a great trip.

However... my sis and her friend went further south on their own to Columbia and reluctantly admitted to my mom that they were robbed of their cameras at gun point.
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