I have a stupid question .... it seems from some of the posters that the homebrew process isn't too complex if you read up on it. And you can make clones of some of your favorite brews ... so my stupid question is what's separating the home brewers from the micro brews?
Is it just a quality recipe and a large investment separating the home brewers from the microbrewers? I look at Dogfish Head which started not even 15 years ago and they brought in revenues around $28M in 2009 - incredible.
EDIT: After a quick google it looks like beer is low margin so you have to produce a lot and sell in volume to make a buck.
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
XtremeSki2001 wrote:I have a stupid question .... it seems from some of the posters that the homebrew process isn't too complex if you read up on it. And you can make clones of some of your favorite brews ... so my stupid question is what's separating the home brewers from the micro brews?
One big impediment to enjoying this hobby is not having a large enough pot to hold what you're cooking. Consider what would happen if you didn't leave enough room and it boils over. Very sticky. Get the right size pot. And lid.
You can get the Brewer's Best kits mail order. It's really a matter of discipline and the patience to rigorously follow a good sterilization process. You're allowed up to 100 gallons homebrew per year (1 adult, 200 gallons for a household).
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
LadyGeek wrote:One big impediment to enjoying this hobby is not having a large enough pot to hold what you're cooking. Consider what would happen if you didn't leave enough room and it boils over. Very sticky. Get the right size pot. And lid.
It sounds like you've had one boil over before. It can happen quickly. I have and my wife still reminds me of it periodically. It's like cleaing up hot caramel.
Brewing beer can be as difficult as you want it to be. The simplest method, brewing from extract, malt adjuncts and fermenting with a good yeast strain, can produce very good results--easily better than most U.S. commercial beer and some European beers. From there you can brew from grain, where everything from the cracked grain size and the chemistry of starch/sugar conversion to water science can greatly effect the outcome. I think that's what many like about brewing. You can enjoy it at whatever level you like, simple to technical, and still get very good to excellent results.
As Lady Geek alludes to, typical home brew sizes are 5 gallons (about 3 gallons of which needs to be boiled), and produces 2.5 cases. If brewed from extract, between equipment sanitation, the brewing process, clean-up, and the bottling process (which takes place later), you're looking at 3 hours of work--with practice and organization 2-2.5 hours. If brewing from grain you can extend that considerably depending upon the mash process you use. No one brews on a small scale to save money; they do it for the craftsmanship and creativity. Most homebrewers put a lot of work into their product, if they're kind enough share one of thier beers with you, you'll know you are a real friend.
I have a stupid question .... it seems from some of the posters that the homebrew process isn't too complex if you read up on it. And you can make clones of some of your favorite brews ... so my stupid question is what's separating the home brewers from the micro brews?
Speaking from experience...Homebrewing is a whole lot more difficult. One of the biggest obstacles is sanitation. There a so many little organisms that can get into your product. Many of these production plants are/should be like a hermetically sealed lab. I stopped doing it because I didn't like the final product. I am a very harsh critic, especially of my own products. It's just easier for me to slap down $0 or more for a case...
I prefer the rogue dead guy. Rogue brewery has always been one of my favorite spots to hit. Deschutes is excellent as well I am from Oregon and it seems we have a brewery on every corner sometimes
nwrolla wrote:I prefer the rogue dead guy. Rogue brewery has always been one of my favorite spots to hit. Deschutes is excellent as well I am from Oregon and it seems we have a brewery on every corner sometimes
Yet another thing to love about Oregon. I'll be at the Rogue public house tomorrow night in San Francisco to enjoy their premier of "John John Dead Guy Ale" for SF Beer Week. Much as I love SF, I wouldn't mind hanging out in Newport, OR for a brewery tour...
Ryan
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
nwrolla wrote:I prefer the rogue dead guy. Rogue brewery has always been one of my favorite spots to hit. Deschutes is excellent as well I am from Oregon and it seems we have a brewery on every corner sometimes
Yet another thing to love about Oregon. I'll be at the Rogue public house tomorrow night in San Francisco to enjoy their premier of "John John Dead Guy Ale" for SF Beer Week. Much as I love SF, I wouldn't mind hanging out in Newport, OR for a brewery tour...
Ryan
I didn't realize they were releasing a new dead guy ? That is awesome rogue has been my favorite from the beginning not to.mention the dead guy whiskey is very good also
I haven't been able to read this whole thread, so apologies of this has been mentioned before, but...
Ithaca Beer Nut Brown Ale
Actually all Ithaca beer is great. Sadly, it's not available in my current location presently. I only get to enjoy it when I go back home for family visits. Anyone in the surrounding few states of NY should be able to find it.
We used to drink beer more often than now and like to try all sorts since there is incredible variety now, but:
For me, Blue Moon is my go-to, especially with a slice of orange in it.
For my DH, it's Sierra Nevada.
My BIL is a very talented home brewer who gives out a selection of brews as christmas presents. While his brews trump the above any time, they are not as readily available.
Once long ago, I tried a honey brewed lager that was so incredibly special, but it was a limited edition never made again. It was delightfully light and notable honey-flavored. You all seem very bogle-ish about your beer, so if anyone can recommend a honey brew, I'd appreciate it!
Ah beer...one of my favorite topics. I usually stick to the local Wisconsin breweries plus I enjoy Michigan's Bell's Brewery a lot. Best in this category:
New Glarus Spotted Cow
Ale Asylum Hopalicious
Capital Winter Skaal and Octoberfest
Great Dane (brewpub) Scotch Ale and Hefeweizen
Bell's Oberon and Two-Hearted Ale
For "national" brands you can't go wrong with:
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
Blue Moon
If I never have another Bud Light/Miller Light/XXX Light I will be overjoyed. Once you've had good beer how can you ever go back?
I haven't had a Yuengling since I lived in DC 10 years ago. I don't even know if I could find it in the Midwest but I'm going to look the next time I'm at the store. Great thread!
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Seattle is microbrew heaven with unending choices. In a pub, pints run ~$4.50 with a buck off during happy hour. If you'd rather quaff at home, buy a 'growler' (64 oz jug) and fill it at the pub. Usually it'll cost about $ 10. Can't beat that! Some brew pubs will even give you the growler. The jug usually sells for $2.50. Hard to get a fill up during peak hours.
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I've got a brew day scheduled for this weekend. If I get the yeast starter going tonight and the equipment cleaned tomorrow afternoon, I'll be brewing on Sunday afternoon.
It'll be a great way to spend what is supposed to be a sunny and warm Feb afternoon outside.
XtremeSki2001 wrote:
Is it just a quality recipe and a large investment separating the home brewers from the microbrewers? I look at Dogfish Head which started not even 15 years ago and they brought in revenues around $28M in 2009 - incredible.
EDIT: After a quick google it looks like beer is low margin so you have to produce a lot and sell in volume to make a buck.
Yea, pretty much monetary investment and will separate the two. A good homebrewer can make beer as good as any microbrewery. In fact, a lot of head microbrewery masters start as homebrew junkies. Same goes for distilling (for fuel of course...).
synder66 wrote:Speaking from experience...Homebrewing is a whole lot more difficult. One of the biggest obstacles is sanitation. There a so many little organisms that can get into your product. Many of these production plants are/should be like a hermetically sealed lab.
As long as you keep you fermenters and bottles clean and sanitized, it isn't that hard. First couple times takes forever, but you eventually get a good process down and figure out the shortcuts (don't need to boil water used to top up the fermenter, kitchen doesn't have to be spotless just wash off areas fermenter and bottles are in, hell even a sneeze or two into the wort doesn't seem to affect the beer...).
LadyGeek wrote:
One big impediment to enjoying this hobby is not having a large enough pot to hold what you're cooking. Consider what would happen if you didn't leave enough room and it boils over. Very sticky. Get the right size pot. And lid.
I like the Winco stainless steel pots (with cladded aluminum bottoms) at amazon.com . They don't burn the wort easily and allow good temperature control. Comes in all sizes up to 80 quarts. 20 quart should be the minimum for anyone looking to do extract brewing and partial mashing. For all grain, look at 40 quart or more (or convert a decommissioned beer keg to a brew kettle).
I've got a brew day scheduled for this weekend. If I get the yeast starter going tonight and the equipment cleaned tomorrow afternoon, I'll be brewing on Sunday afternoon.
It'll be a great way to spend what is supposed to be a sunny and warm Feb afternoon outside.
I brew extract and haven't bothered with a yeast starter. Is it worth the effort?
Keim wrote:I brew extract and haven't bothered with a yeast starter. Is it worth the effort?
One of the things I like about homebrewing is that there's a huge range of what you can do.
Do you have to make a yeast starter? No. Will pitching the right quantity of healthy yeast into properly aerated/oxygenated wort make your beer better? Yes!
Good fermentation and yeast management will contribute as much to the final flavor profile as the rest of the process. And you may make a great wort, have your sanitation exactly right and if you pitch too little yeast, ferment too warm or too cold, or don't maintain a good fermentation temperature, it'll have a huge impact on the flavor.
But the most important thing is to enjoy what you're doing... Take it as far as you want to.
We migrated from dry packaged yeast to liquid yeast. It needs to be kept refrigerated, so we buy all our supplies from the local home brew store. Liquid yeast is a definite step up in quality over dried.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
LadyGeek wrote:We migrated from dry packaged yeast to liquid yeast. It needs to be kept refrigerated, so we buy all our supplies from the local home brew store. Liquid yeast is a definite step up in quality over dried.
Cost, too. I've tried both. Depends on what I'm brewing, but I find myself using Nottingham a lot.
almost anything from Great Lakes, Bell's, and Dogfish Head is treasured. right now, i complement my fav's w/ cheap JW Dundee (can find 12 pack sampler for $11, frequently) and $1.19 cans of 24 oz. Labatt's for when i don't feel like "splurging" for more than $1/beer.
I've always like Balentine Ale. Back in the early 70's when we'd go partying out in the woods and build big bonfires I'd get 2 quarts of Balentine Ale. No one would mooch my booze cuz they all hated the taste! We all know what they call it and it does smell skunky but I love it!
I haven't bought any for probably 15 or 17 years but Mackeson Triple XXX Sweet Stout is excellent. It's a rich dark brew - it's like a meal it's so thick and heavy. It is very expensive tho. Last time I bought a case (6 4 packs) it was $32 and again that was in the mid 90's. It comes in 4 packs and they must be $12 by now. Not very Boglehead but delicious!
I've sampled as many beers as possible here and throughout Europe and a few in Asia. I'm far from an expert but am willing to learn (sample) whenever I can.
In the US my favorite premium is Great Lakes Dortmunder Gold. Other Great Lakes brews are also very good.
Best value - Henninger Premium Lager a German import at Trader Joe's - $6 for a 6 pack of pint cans, also many Trader Joe house brands are good values
Best Communist Beer - Beer Lao (the only beer in Laos)
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Domestic Large Cap Growth: Killian's Irish Red, Blue Moon - expensive macrobrews (MillerCoors). Somewhat poor value, in my opinion.
Domestic Large Cap Blend: Miller, Coors. Molson is owned by MillerCoors, so it doesn't count as int'l. I believe Pabst, Old Style, and Old Milwaukee are brewed by MillerCoors as well, under contract from the Pabst Brewing Company.
Int'l Large Cap Blend: Now, this is tricky because Anheuser Busch is owned by InBev. You have some notable American brands like Budweiser, Busch, and Natural Light mixed in with the likes of Stella Artois, Labatt, and Hoegaarden.
Domestic Large Cap Value: Olde English 800, Steel Reserve 211 - cheap macrobrews, fairly good value (at least as the price to ABV ratio goes), requires strong stomach
Domestic Mid Cap Blend: Samuel Adams
Int'l Small Cap Value: La Fin du Monde (Unibroue, Canadian). This is a very decent rendition of a Belgian tripel. Not as awesome as Chimay, but much cheaper. My personal recommendation for best bang for the buck, if you like Belgian strong ales.
Int'l Small Cap Growth: Chimay, Trappiste Rochefort. These are strong Belgian trappist brews. Quite expensive, but very good. Prohibitively expensive for regular drinking, in my opinion.
Domestic Small Cap Blend: Great Lakes, Goose Island, Dogfish Head, Laguinitas, Bell's, Brooklyn Brewery, Summit, Tröegs... let's face it, the US is blessed with a large number of very good regional microbreweries. There is no way that I could list all of the ones worth mentioning.
My pick for best Boglehead beer would be the Trader Joe's Vintage Ale, which is a Trader Joe branded Belgian strong ale brewed under contact by Unibroue. I've seen them sold for $5 for a 750ml bottle (the 2010 vintage), vs about $12-15 for a 4 pack of 12 oz bottles of La Fin du Monde. (For those of you keeping score at home, 48 oz = 1419.5 ml).
Of course, if you don't like Belgian strong ales, this isn't the bargain you're looking for.
I couldn't imagine buying this stuff when micro-brews are available. Especially since I don't drink that much. It's not much more expensive to get the better stuff.
Bravo Dan. I'd second the TJ's Vintage Ale for a good deal on a great beer. Comes out in Fall every year, IIRC.
Had a couple beers this weekend that made me rethink ever again drinking a mediocre beer: Pliny the Younger (lucked out to find the right pub at the right time to get this one) and The Angel's Share (bourbon barrel aged strong ale) http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/18149/32413 . Alas, self-control is a necessary evil.
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
LadyGeek wrote:We migrated from dry packaged yeast to liquid yeast. It needs to be kept refrigerated, so we buy all our supplies from the local home brew store. Liquid yeast is a definite step up in quality over dried.
Dry yeast is more than acceptable depending on what flavor is desired. I would not really say the quality is higher but that liquid yeast offers a wider variety of flavor.
Thetightfist wrote:What is a Boglehead beer? It should have good taste but it should be reasonable in cost, right?
I'm gonna chime in with those who have cited some of our excellent breweries in the Pacific Northwest. I'm quite a fan of Henry Weinhard's lager, of which I can buy a case for $16.
Also, I'm lucky enough to have a relative who is an award-winning homebrewer, though he sadly lives a long plane flight away (and paying $35 just to check a bag full of beer home doesn't seem very Boglehead-ish )
Thetightfist wrote:What is the beer of choice for the Boglehead? Also, what is the beer of choice when splurging?
I lean towards wheats, hefeweizen, and lager most of the time, but enjoy a hoppy IPA or a Porter frequently as well. When splurging, I mostly go for more expensive NW beers... Ninkasi, Deschutes, Black Butte, Widmer, Full Sail. I'm not sure if I've bought a large, national brand of beer since moving here
Thetightfist wrote:What is a Boglehead beer? It should have good taste but it should be reasonable in cost, right?
I'm gonna chime in with those who have cited some of our excellent breweries in the Pacific Northwest. I'm quite a fan of Henry Weinhard's lager, of which I can buy a case for $16.
Also, I'm lucky enough to have a relative who is an award-winning homebrewer, though he sadly lives a long plane flight away (and paying $35 just to check a bag full of beer home doesn't seem very Boglehead-ish )
Thetightfist wrote:What is the beer of choice for the Boglehead? Also, what is the beer of choice when splurging?
I lean towards wheats, hefeweizen, and lager most of the time, but enjoy a hoppy IPA or a Porter frequently as well. When splurging, I mostly go for more expensive NW beers... Ninkasi, Deschutes, Black Butte, Widmer, Full Sail. I'm not sure if I've bought a large, national brand of beer since moving here
Why would you buy a national brand. You're in Portland. That's Beervana.
Thetightfist wrote:What is the beer of choice for the Boglehead? Also, what is the beer of choice when splurging?
I lean towards wheats, hefeweizen, and lager most of the time, but enjoy a hoppy IPA or a Porter frequently as well. When splurging, I mostly go for more expensive NW beers... Ninkasi, Deschutes, Black Butte, Widmer, Full Sail. I'm not sure if I've bought a large, national brand of beer since moving here
Why would you buy a national brand. You're in Portland. That's Beervana.
I know! I've only lived here a few months though. Great choices abound and I love it!
For those who enjoy Dogfish, I highly recommend visiting their brewpub in Rehoboth in the off-season. Hotels in the area can be had for $39 a night. The brewpub has an amazing selection of Dogfish beers, including a handful that never make it out of DE, at a reasonable $4.50 - $6 a piece (you get less than a pint of the high alcohol ones). They also distill their own vodka/rum/gin if you have a non-beer drinking significant other. In years past, the brewpub would have been pretty empty in the offseason, but due to the popularity of Brewmasters tv show, it get's pretty crowded, so be prepared to wait for a table.
cubedbee wrote:For those who enjoy Dogfish, I highly recommend visiting their brewpub in Rehoboth in the off-season. Hotels in the area can be had for $39 a night. The brewpub has an amazing selection of Dogfish beers, including a handful that never make it out of DE, at a reasonable $4.50 - $6 a piece (you get less than a pint of the high alcohol ones). They also distill their own vodka/rum/gin if you have a non-beer drinking significant other. In years past, the brewpub would have been pretty empty in the offseason, but due to the popularity of Brewmasters tv show, it get's pretty crowded, so be prepared to wait for a table.
There is also a trio of restaurants ("Dogfish Head Alehouse") in the DC metro area that are excellent as well. Obviously they probably don't have the selection of Reheboth, but Dogfish on tap is a rare treat nonetheless.
My go to beer these days is "Bud in a bottle". A few years ago I was a Sam Adams guy and hated domestic brews. A new house and new baby required some money adjusting. Bud tastes just fine to me now. I still do not like light beers of any kind. I want some taste on my budget.
Yuengling has been one of my favorite beers for years. Out of the tap, it is really tough to beat.
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Smithwicks are really good. There are a lot of good beers out there. I always try new beers when given the chance. and I will not turn down any beer. When a friend offers me beer, I take it happily even if it is Bud Light in a can.
I'll be at Lagunitas and Russian River Brewing co's this weekend (maybe Bear Republic and Moylan's too?) for a President's Day rainy weekend escape if anyone wants to join me
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
ryuns wrote:I'll be at Lagunitas and Russian River Brewing co's this weekend (maybe Bear Republic and Moylan's too?) for a President's Day rainy weekend escape if anyone wants to join me
Wow, that's some good drinking right there. Russian River's beers are absolutely amazing... and Racer 5's definitely one of my favorites as well.
Ever notice that beer or wine threads seem to have the most interesting comments and insight. Much more interesting than passive investing discussions.
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“The CMH-the Cost Matters Hypothesis -is all that is needed to explain why indexing must and will work… Yes, it is that simple.” John C. Bogle
ryuns wrote:I'll be at Lagunitas and Russian River Brewing co's this weekend (maybe Bear Republic and Moylan's too?) for a President's Day rainy weekend escape if anyone wants to join me
I'm very jealous, but I'll raise you a Great Lakes Brewing Co I'll be checking out next week.
I'll also add that Yard's, Victory, Sly Fox, Dogfish Head, Yuengling and Flying Fish are all less than an hours drive from my home 8)
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
ryuns wrote:I'll be at Lagunitas and Russian River Brewing co's this weekend (maybe Bear Republic and Moylan's too?) for a President's Day rainy weekend escape if anyone wants to join me
I'm very jealous, but I'll raise you a Great Lakes Brewing Co I'll be checking out next week.
I'll also add that Yard's, Victory, Sly Fox, Dogfish Head, Yuengling and Flying Fish are all less than an hours drive from my home 8)
Cheers to that. Your location certainly gives mine a run for its money on the beer front. And cheers to the small brewery renaissance in this country.
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
ryuns wrote:I'll be at Lagunitas and Russian River Brewing co's this weekend (maybe Bear Republic and Moylan's too?) for a President's Day rainy weekend escape if anyone wants to join me
I'm very jealous, but I'll raise you a Great Lakes Brewing Co I'll be checking out next week.
I'll also add that Yard's, Victory, Sly Fox, Dogfish Head, Yuengling and Flying Fish are all less than an hours drive from my home 8)
Cheers to that. Your location certainly gives mine a run for its money on the beer front. And cheers to the small brewery renaissance in this country.
It's tough to beat Russian River though - I'm sure they have all sorts of special brews on tap at the brewery. Makes me thirsty just thinking about it!
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through