OT: water heater replacement quote.

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goru1
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OT: water heater replacement quote.

Post by goru1 »

I got this water heater replacement quote. This is 1st time for me.

Please comment.

Thanks.

$2,300.00

THE INSTALLATION OF A NEW WATER HEATER.

THIS INCLUDES:

1. ONE STATE MODEL #GS675YRVIT POWER VENTED GAS WATER
HEATER NATURAL GAS

2. ALL NECESSARY COPPER PIPE, VALVES AND FITTINGS TO
CONNECT TO WATER HEATER TO EXISTING PIPING

3. GAS PIPING

4. VENTING

5. WATER HEATER STARTED AND TESTED

6. REMOVAL OF OLD WATER HEATER

7. ONE YEAR ON ALL PARTS AND LABOR

8. SIX YEAR WARRANTY ON THE WATER HEATER

$1,150.00 DOWN PAYMENT

$1,150.00 DUE UPON COMPLETION
NateW
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Post by NateW »

That sounds really expensive. The power vent must increase the cost dramatically. Is this needed? Was the old heater power vented? My guess is that a decent 9 - 12 year warranty gas hot water heater should be about $1000 - $1200 installed, to replace an existing one. If you are handy around the house and can sweat solder this may be a job you could probally do yourself.

Six months ago I replaced my old one with a GE gas model (9-year tank warranty, made by Rheem) that I bought at Lowes and installed myself. It was under $500. You may want to price one installed by Lowes or Home Depot.

--Nate
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tinscale
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Post by tinscale »

That would be roughly $1,000 too high in the Wash DC area, if it is a simple in-place replacement of a regular HW heater with a natural draft vent thru the roof. Not sure how much extra the power venting should cost. If the heater is upstairs, in the attic, or otherwise hard to access, that would cost a little more. The other piping, valve, etc., should be minimal unless there is some problem with your's or it is old and doesn't meet code or something.

I suggest you get quotes from Home Depot, Lowes, and Sears - whatever is available in your area. Also, you can get up to a 12-year warranty on the heater.

Mine is electric, in the attic, and was there when we moved in in 1992 (actual age unknown), and I work part-time at Home Depot (doing paperwork, not a tradesman).

Good Luck.
Mike in Virginia
jes58
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Post by jes58 »

You might want to get a few more quotes. You'd be surprised how widely they vary. This seems very high.
tomd37
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Post by tomd37 »

Four years ago I installed at State Select 50 gallon natural gas water heater for about $900 including everything you mention plus adding new drain lines from the pan down under the floor into the walk-in crawl space and on outside. This installation did not include a power vent, but instead I used the one already in place with the old unit.


My "guess" is that is about double the price. Shop around comparing similar unit pricings.
Tom D.
scpo
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water heater

Post by scpo »

I had the best one thatH/D had to offer. It cost $750.00 installed. When I bought 2 yrs ago the had a offer one couldn't refuse lifetime warranty and labor.
SpecialK22
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Post by SpecialK22 »

tinscale wrote:That would be roughly $1,000 too high in the Wash DC area
Concur; I recently had a new 50 gallon water heater with a nine year warranty installed for roughly a thousand less than the OP's quote.
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AnimalCrackers
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Post by AnimalCrackers »

NateW wrote:The power vent must increase the cost dramatically.
--Nate
It does. It also increases the efficiency . . . whether enough to justify the added expense, I don't know. I suspect the time to pay back exceeds the expected life of the water heater, much like what I believe to be the current state of affairs with tankless water heaters.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson
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Orygun Jim
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Post by Orygun Jim »

I bought a Reliance (retail store version of state water heater) model 12 40 GXRT 12 year natural gas high efficiency water heater (no power vent) from our local plumbing supply house for $473.08, and new stainless braided hoses for $ 20. I was replacing a state water heater I had for 24 years. Threw it in the back of wife's Subaru Outback and paid $100 for a handyman to install it and dispose of the old one. State is sold to plumbers so you may be at their mercy on pricing. You can check the Reliance and see it is the same thing, and may save quite a bit.
exoilman
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Post by exoilman »

WAS AT Home Depot last week. 40 gal gas GE best was 568 +300 installation.

Sam
tim1999
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Post by tim1999 »

Last year I paid Home Depot about $750-$800 to install a mid-level GE 40-gallon electric model.
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dratkinson
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Post by dratkinson »

Agree you can probably do better.

Agree the newest-style (tankless, top-vent, heat pump) high efficiency WHs may never recoup their cost. This was true in my case when I researched the options.

This may not be a big issue for you, but remember, any WH that required electricity will not work during a power outage. This was an issue for many east coast residents during the recent winter snows and power outages.

You can also search the forum for previous posts on WHs. I seem to remember one member was able to purchase a new old-style NG HE WH through their local utility company for a very good price---amount forgotten. So that may also be an option for you.

When I asked a trusted plumbing company for a quote, it was $800 for 40 gals. and $1000 for 50 gals for the old-style HE units. This was two(?) years ago. And they were not recommending, at least in my case, the newest-style HE WHs.
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ualdriver
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Re: OT: water heater replacement quote.

Post by ualdriver »

goru1 wrote:I got this water heater replacement quote. This is 1st time for me.

Please comment.

Thanks.

$2,300.00

THE INSTALLATION OF A NEW WATER HEATER.

THIS INCLUDES:

1. ONE STATE MODEL #GS675YRVIT POWER VENTED GAS WATER
HEATER NATURAL GAS

2. ALL NECESSARY COPPER PIPE, VALVES AND FITTINGS TO
CONNECT TO WATER HEATER TO EXISTING PIPING

3. GAS PIPING

4. VENTING

5. WATER HEATER STARTED AND TESTED

6. REMOVAL OF OLD WATER HEATER

7. ONE YEAR ON ALL PARTS AND LABOR

8. SIX YEAR WARRANTY ON THE WATER HEATER

$1,150.00 DOWN PAYMENT

$1,150.00 DUE UPON COMPLETION
My FIL had a 75 gallon, gas, power vent water heater that failed two months ago. We got 3 quotes because I dreaded lugging that ***** thing up and down the stairs to the basement in order to do it myself. All three quotes were around the $2300 you were quoted where he lives in the Chicago suburbs. Doing it with a buddy of mine, including the water heater and a few parts cost us around $1300 or so. So if the people above me were getting quotes for around that price installed, they were getting a heck of a deal compared to what I could find when I shopped around.
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goru1
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Post by goru1 »

Thanks for all replies.

Model: GS6 75 YRVIT

State Select

75 gallon

Power Vent

FVIR Compliant

http://www.statewaterheaters.com/lit/sp ... S00905.pdf
Topic Author
goru1
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Post by goru1 »

overflow pan:
recommended?
approx extra cost?

water and gas safety valve (wags):
recommended?
approx extra cost?

Brand:
1) State 2) Bradford-White 3) From Lowes etc?

Thanks.
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Bob B
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Post by Bob B »

In southeast PA, my plumber just quoted me a new 40 gal. gas HWH for $1,000 which includes all material (including new shutoffs), labor and disposal of old heater plus an annual inspection and sediment flush for the next 6 years.
Regards, | Bob | Wiki
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dratkinson
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Post by dratkinson »

goru1 wrote:Thanks for all replies.

Model: GS6 75 YRVIT

State Select

75 gallon

Power Vent

FVIR Compliant

http://www.statewaterheaters.com/lit/sp ... S00905.pdf
According to the PDF, your replacement WH is:

NG, 6 year warranty, and has one (1) aluminum anode.

When I was researching replacement WHs two years ago, the above were parameters found in the low-end old-style NG WHs.

The high-end old-style WHs gave a 10-12 year warranty, used 2 magnesium anodes, and had thicker insulation.

Aluminum anodes could (sometimes) deteriorate quickly and cause a gooey buildup in the tank bottom. This goo could float through the water system and plug up valves (sink aerators, toilet tank, clothes washer, dish washer). Aluminum anodes were therefore not recommended and only used in special cases to combat a bad (mineral) smell in some well water systems. Then why use aluminum anodes? Simple, the manufacturer saves money because aluminum is a little cheaper than magnesium. And one anode is cheaper than two.

If you don't really need a power-vent model (your WH is not vented horizontally), you could save some money and get a longer guarantee if you could use a high-efficiency vertical-vent NG model. At the time I searched, Ruud and Rheem were the top rated units.

I'm certain increased efficiency is a big advertised selling point for a power-vent WH, but when I checked my 50 gal. HE NG HW consumption, I was only paying $3 per month for NG for one person (showers and baths). So, even if my monthly NG cost dropped to zero, I still could not justify the expense of any new-style WH (power vent or tankless).

In my case for your selected WH, I compute a 36-year payback: (2300–1000)/3 = 433 months = 36 years. Since it is only guaranteed for 6 years, it would never repay its higher cost.

The case of a tankless model was even worse, with a 50-year payback---$3000 purchase price.

If you absolutely must purchase a power-vent model, then best wishes on your purchase.


/r
David
Last edited by dratkinson on Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
goru1
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Post by goru1 »

Quote for 50 gallon from same company:

$1,600

50 gallon
Power Vent
State Select
GS6 50 YRVIT

Extra $500 for:
1) water and gas safety valve (wags)
+
2) drain pan

Thanks.
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gatorman
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Post by gatorman »

dratkinson wrote: You can also search the forum for previous posts on WHs. I seem to remember one member was able to purchase a new old-style NG HE WH through their local utility company for a very good price---amount forgotten. So that may also be an option for you.
That was me and I ended up paying, I think, $475, after rebate through my local gas company. You can search for the thread to get the exact price, but that's really not the point. The point is that you might be able to cut yourself a significantly better deal through the gas company.

good luck,
gatorman
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dratkinson
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Post by dratkinson »

goru1 wrote:Quote for 50 gallon from same company:

$1,600

50 gallon
Power Vent
State Select
GS6 50 YRVIT

Extra $500 for:
1) water and gas safety valve (wags)
+
2) drain pan

Thanks.
What does Consumer Reports have to say about recommended WHs? It has been a long time since I checked.

The water and gas valves should already be there from your old WH. If not, new, they should be no more than $30 each from ACE hardware. ACE is high retail. Ball valves are preferred to gate valves.

A WH drain pan should be no more than $20.



Ideas to make future servicing of your new WH easier.

(1) You might want to consider changing the cheap plastic WH drain valve for a much more durable brass ball valve. Again, no more than $30 at ACE. Use teflon tape or some other dielectric coupling to prevent galvanic corrosion between the steel tank lining and the brass valve. The dielectric coupling is extra.

(2) You might want to consider having the anode rod removed and reinstalled using teflon tape. Why? To allow you to service the WH later to replace the anode after it is consumed. Without the teflon tape, the anode can seize in place and can not be removed. Then the only option is to replace your WH to replace the anode. Anodes are cheap. WH are expensive. So make it easy to replace your anode.

(3) You might want to consider connecting your WH to your house water line with a dielectric coupling. This prevents the galvanic corrosion caused when dissimilar metals come into contact. Example: The steel lining of your WH and its steel pipe nipples connected to your house copper water lines. If your house water line is plastic, then this is probably a non-issue.

(4) Do these things before your WH is connected to your house and filled with water. Much easier that way.

(5) Your plumbing installer may tell you that these things are not necessary. They benefit him if you don't do them.


You might also want to read here for more ideas to make your WH last as long as possible: http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/ (I have no affiliation, other than liking some of the ideas.)

At the above website, they recommend flexible connections for gas and water lines and tank straps for the WH. But remember, they are in California. For less seismically active regions, solid connections are recommended.


I have found a plumbing business I like (trust) and they have agreed to do the above for me when I buy my next old-style HE WH from them. Yes, I know I will be paying high retail and that I could get it cheaper from HD. However, in my case, I have already decided that the extra service is worth the price.


/r
David
Last edited by dratkinson on Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
likegarden
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Post by likegarden »

I live in upstate NY. I paid only 1/3 of your price 1 year ago, installation and removal included. I went to Home Depot, got a GE 50 gal, 9 year gas water heater. It replaced the existing one in the same place. The furnace and the water heater both exhaust into the same pipe and then into the chimney. There was a little change to the copper tubing and exhaust pipe, all included. There was no need for power venting.
Topic Author
goru1
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Post by goru1 »

National Grid Energy Services

$1,070.00
50gal
6yr
Installed
Model No. BFG61-50T40
American Water Heater
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dratkinson
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Post by dratkinson »

goru1 wrote:National Grid Energy Services

$1,070.00
50gal
6yr
Installed
Model No. BFG61-50T40
American Water Heater
Now you're getting into the ball park. ($800 for 40 gal, $1000 for 50 gal)

According to this:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... -sgW0dGKxQ

It is not a power-vent model. (I consider this to be a plus as it will work through a power outage.)

However, a 6-year guarantee is a one (1) anode WH.

According to above, your WH has provisions for a second anode. You can have your plumber install second anode. This will give you the protection of a 12-year model at a 6-year model price. You can also have him do the other things that make it easy to maintain your WH.

In the back of my mind, I seem to remember that American WHs use aluminum anodes. This is somewhat confirmed by the above, because it does not specifically say "magnesium anode". If they used the more expensive anode, they would say so. :)

Plumbers I respect tell me you really want magnesium anodes. This may require you to buy your own, install them, and discard the aluminum anode. Or give it to the plumber.

I seem to remember it is a bad idea to mix anodes. So don't install a second magnesium anode into a WH that already has a first aluminum anode. It is again the problem of galvanic interaction between dissimilar metals, and they will cause each other to be consumed faster than if only one existed.


/r
David
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mrwarmth
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Local plumber

Post by mrwarmth »

Just had a 40 gal gas hot water heater installed for $900 plus $25 rabate in NJ.
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goru1
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Post by goru1 »

Got these quotes thru local gas company.

$1660:

American
PVG62-50T42-3NV
50 Gallon Residential Gas
6-Year Parts 6-Year Tank
Direct Vent/Enclosed Combustion
Thru-The-Wall Venting
http://www.americanwaterheater.com/prod ... px?ID=1093

$2600:

American
PVG62-75T75-3NV
75 Gallon Residential Gas
6-Year Parts 6-Year Tank
Thru-The-Wall Power Venting With PVC Pipe
http://www.americanwaterheater.com/prod ... px?ID=1047
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White Coat Investor
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Post by White Coat Investor »

My water heater (electric, 50 gal) retails for $258 at Lowe's. Installation involves two water connections (wrench required) and a one electrical connection (screwdriver required).

Yes, yours seems expensive.
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Post by livesoft »

I've replaced both original hot water heaters in my house. After a little research, I called up Home Depot and bought the GE 40 gal natural gas water heater with 12-year warranty. Both times installed for about $600 including removal of old heater. A little high because our heaters are up 2 flights of stairs in the attic.

I did get quotes from a couple of other places, but they were about $100 more expensive.

A 6-year warranty? Do they even make water heaters with such a short warranty?
retcaveman
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Post by retcaveman »

Sounds expensive to me. Replaced an original 40 gal gas unit last year(we have two) for under $700 - with installation it cost us just under $1,000. This included draining and removing the old tank. The new one is a Rheem.
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goru1
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Post by goru1 »

Same model # (for which I got quote for $2600) is listed on lowes.com for $1,169.23.

How much approx lowes charges for replacing WH?

Model #: PVG62-75T75-3NV

POWERFLEX 75-Gallon 75000-BTU Power Vent Natural Gas Water Heater

http://www.lowes.com/pd_89263-135-PVG62 ... 4294856707 4294837441 4294837001_4294937087_?rpp=15$Ns=p_product_price|0$identifier=
tomd37
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Post by tomd37 »

Goru1,

It's time to ask Lowe's the question.
Tom D.
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goru1
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Post by goru1 »

Lowes
Model #: PVG62-75T75-3NV
POWERFLEX 75-Gallon 75000-BTU Power Vent Natural Gas Water Heater
$1,169 (WH) + $359(Install) + $50(Permit) = $1,578

Vs

$2600 quote for same model # I got from local gas company.
tomd37
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Post by tomd37 »

Quite a difference - 39% savings
Tom D.
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dratkinson
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Post by dratkinson »

I hope this water-heater-replacement disease isn't contagious. My neighbor just had their's replaced. HE old-style NG, 40 gal, 8 year warranty, Rheem, $1100.

Their water temp was fluctuating (sometimes too hot, sometimes too cool) and the trusted plumber said they could fix it, but that the fix would only last 2-3 years before more problems developed on their 20+years-old WH. So it was time to buy a new one.

They showed me their new WH and bragged about how quickly the crew worked. Their basement was left spotlessly clean afterwards which made extra points with the Mrs.

The more I hear about this plumbing company, the more I like them. They are not cheap, but their prices are not unreasonable.

With inflation, it looks like the new standard price is 30-gal, $800-900 and 40-gal, $1000-$1100 for the old-style WHs.

I can not recommend highly enough finding a good, reliable plumbing company before the need arises. Ask your neighbors for recommendations and go check them out personally before your need arises. Double-check and keep tabs on them as they do work for your neighbors. Then when your time comes, you will not worry about spending your money on the work. This is just my 2 cents after more than once feeling like I've been ripped off by a business and having paid too much for too little.
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stemikger
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Post by stemikger »

That sounds really high. I had two water heaters replaced in my home. Both 40 gallons and both cost around $600 that includes the instllation and the second one has a 9 year warranty.

I went to Lowes and they took care of everything.
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gatorman
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Post by gatorman »

This appears to be a pretty good deal on a tankless heater if you are willing to buy a refurb unit:

http://ebm.email.cpooutlets.com/c/tag/h ... lantic.net

gatorman
exigent
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Post by exigent »

We had a Kenmore 40 gallon electric "lowboy" with a 9 year warranty installed in our crawl space this winter. I forget the details, but it was somewhere in the $700 range.
retcaveman
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Post by retcaveman »

FWIW, in yesterday's Home Depot flyer (Green Bay, WI), 40gal gas unit w/ 6 year warranty = $318. A 40 gal gas w/ 9 year warranty = $418. And a 40 gal gas unit with a 12 year warranty = $468. These prices did not include installation. All units were GE brand. Electric units were $215 w/ 6 year warranty, $298 for a 9 year warranty and $428 for a 50 gal w/ a 12 year warranty.
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segfault
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Post by segfault »

goru,

If you don't need a power-vent or direct-vent, go with a conventional gas water heater. They're both expensive, and the power-vent models are noisy and won't work without electricity. My $0.02.
schwarm
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Post by schwarm »

I recently paid $615 for a 12 year Kenmore 40 gallon tall electric water heater including tax, installation and removal of old w/h. The plumber charged another $80 to install a ball valve (claimed it is required by code) on the inlet and to re-pipe the inlet and outlet to accommodate the new water heater. I called Sears for a quote and they gave me a 10% discount on the w/h and installation if I bought that day. (The old w/h was 11 y/o with a slow leak - didn't need a new one immediately). So if you can shop around you may get a discount.
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goru1
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Post by goru1 »

Lowes:
they don't install power vent and tankless models.

Quote for tankless model from local gas company:
$3200
Rinnai continuum on demand
$700 rebate
qualifies for tax credit

planning to live in this house for 10+ yrs. Finished basement so thinking tankless as low risk/headache option for any possible bursting. This is 1st time for me so no prior experience.

Please comment. Thanks.
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