Fireproofing homes in wildfire prone areas

[supalong52]

Given the news out of L.A., I'm sure many Bogleheads are thinking about how to fireproof their homes and the extent to which they should do so.

Our house is stucco with concrete roof tiles. We had our pest control company install mesh screens over the various attic vents. But we have wood fences and gates, and some shrubs, etc. against our house.

I've been considering removing the shrubs and filling it in with pea gravel. Also replacing the wood gates with metal. Also maybe installing those ember resistant soffits and eaves. See, e.g., https://firesafemarin.org/harden-your-h ... its-eaves/.

Does anyone have any experience in fireproofing homes? Any thoughts on what it would cost to replace 2 wood gates with metal ones? What about retrofitting soffit/eave vents?

[Valuethinker]

I am sure there is some good advice that others will post.

One thing which is highlighted in John Vaillant's fantastic book https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Weather-Sto ... 1399720201

Fire Weather: A Story from a Hotter World

part of this fantastic book is the chronicling of Fort McMurray ALTA fire - in the heart of Canada's oil sands - which wiped out perhaps 1/4 of the town. Is secondary explosions from stored gasoline and propane -- snowblowers, chain saws, BBQs, recreational vehicles like snowmobiles etc. Heat reaches a certain point, and they go up like bombs.

But it's worth understanding that once a wildfire gets going, there's not much practical you can do about it. It will tear through your house, and your neighbours. This is blast furnace heat, that will ignite everything that can be ignited, and vaporize much of the rest. If you are saved it is because the wind shifts or because firefighter actions manage to save a whole street or district.

I would also recommend Brian Fies excellent graphic novel Fire Story about his experiences of being burned out in a fire in Northern California. More about what was lost, what they learned about preparations you should take beforehand in terms of documents etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Story-Updat ... 168&sr=1-1

[beardsicles]

Seems like you're in relatively good shape, and these all seem like sensible suggestions. But what seems unique to some extent about these fires is their massive spread is not being primarily driven by trees and shrubs, at least not past an initial phase. They are reaching such an extent that houses themselves are the primary fuel, and unless you don't have neighbors, not much you can do about that.

[Valuethinker]

Seems like you're in relatively good shape, and these all seem like sensible suggestions. But what seems unique to some extent about these fires is their massive spread is not being primarily driven by trees and shrubs, at least not past an initial phase. They are reaching such an extent that houses themselves are the primary fuel, and unless you don't have neighbors, not much you can do about that.

There was a piece about an architect fireproofing their home after the big Australian wildfires of a few years ago.

The estimate was over $250k AUD. I think this included a zinc shell, plus airtight sealing which could be engaged.

The heat in a wildfire is just so intense that it will ignite or incinerate ordinary building materials. And sparks get into anything.

I think local fire protection do indicate all the measures the OP has suggested eg removing wood or other vegetation from nearby, flammable structures like fences. Grates for sparks.

[fogalog]

What I find scary about the current Palisades fire is that it is in a downtown, very accessible area with a well-funded fire department and not too much vegetation. ie it is not like the other more rural or semi-rural fires we have seen, and yet the devastation is fast and ruthless.

I live in the flat part of the peninsula - a downtown area, not unlike that in Palisades, but in the SF Bay Area. I can't answer your specific question regarding costs but I had coincidentally started looking at the same issues and came across this FEMA document from 2023 with a lot of good information.

[bendix]

I guess you could build a house entirely from concrete blocks or clay bricks with clay roof tiles or a flat roof from concrete... I would expect that to be a lot more resilient to fires than houses built from wood.

[fogalog]

I guess you could build a house entirely from concrete blocks or clay bricks with clay roof tiles or a flat roof from concrete... I would expect that to be a lot more resilient to fires than houses built from wood.

Unfortunately that's hard to do in California these days with earthquake requirements for SFH.

[Mike Scott]

Look at your local fire prevention codes/policies/recommendations. Do the highest impact mitigations that you can afford. Insurance for all the things you can't control.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

I guess you could build a house entirely from concrete blocks or clay bricks with clay roof tiles or a flat roof from concrete... I would expect that to be a lot more resilient to fires than houses built from wood.

Brick houses are more impervious to fire but the underlying structure of the home is made with combustible materials - glass might resist it but it can be penetrated by high velocity flying objects - 100mph winds is not trivial. The underlying frame is wood or composite which burns and melts away to nothing. Insulation is made out of what? foam, plastics, plastic wrap?

In the end, a hot blast furnace style fire might leave the outside structure standing and everything inside will be incinerated.

[stan1]

It would be best if you could convince the neighbors around you to do same. If you do it and they don't the effort won't be as effective. And don't think of it as "fire proofing" its more "fire resistance". There were a lot of tear down newer construction homes in Pacific Palisades that would have had mitigations; most are not standing.


'

[rob]

I cannot find them but decades ago there was a company that designed a sealed gutter system that could pump water UP the downpipes and into the gutters that were shaped with controlled overflow - so it turned gutters into a waterfall of sorts around the house. Obviously needs both water and power - but it looked intriguing as part of a system of protections (clearing plants etc etc.). It was not a cheap option at the time. In todays world of batteries and solar power, that is more doable.

There are lots of sprinkler systems that attach to regular gutters that spray the roof edges and surrounds. That should only need water pressure but you would need a backup pump and electric also. Would obviously be a much cheaper addition.

Metal roofing would likely be a huge help over asphalt tile - and maybe ceramic tile (as the air gaps in tiles I expect would allow fire to creep in).

There is no single protection but lots of little things. A huge fire could run over the top of anything. I would suggest stuff like cloud backups and solid insurance are part of the mitigation.

[ondarvr]

From all the reports in recent years the problem is that the immediate flammable materials by the house matter less, these fires jumped big gaps due to high winds that can be created by the fire itself, or from normal weather conditions. The extremely dry nature of current houses and Forests allow the fire to jump for a mile or more over what were once considered barriers.

Building it from reinforced concrete would help, but it still may be left uninhabitable. And this is only if you could go back and start over completely by building a new structure with fire prevention in mind. Any already existing structure would be difficult to improve to a point where it would be meaningful.

This comes from a person that lives out in a very dry ponderosa pine forest that has looked into many options.

The feds were instructing home owners here on how to thin the tees on their property to help prevent fires. My property is bordered by federal land, so I asked if they or I could do a bit of thinning near my property lines like they instructed us to do. They said absolutely not, their property can't be touched even if it doesn't fit their presented outline of proper fire management. Under penalty of law.

[baconavocado]

When a fire is propelled by 50-100 mph winds, I don't think there's anything you can do except get out of the way. Look at the photos from the Tubbs Fire in 2017 - everything in its path was incinerated to the ground. IMO, the best thing you can do is watch weather and fire reports and make a plan to get your family and pets out before the fire gets to you. All these halfway measures, like removing all the trees and vegetation in your yard and replacing them with gravel, just makes life miserable before the fire comes.

[boomer_techie]

What I find scary about the current Palisades fire is that it is in a downtown, very accessible area with a well-funded fire department and not too much vegetation. ie it is not like the other more rural or semi-rural fires we have seen, and yet the devastation is fast and ruthless.

I've been viewing some of the video news reports (and citizen video reports too - they're better!) in sort of a split screen view: One view on YouTube showing the aftermath. And the other using Google Earth for a before view. One thing I'm noticing in the before views is the intense amount of vegetation! There are bushes bordering the yards and homes. Massive flower beds. Numerous low hanging decorative trees.

Things to do:

1) Prevent a grass fire from climbing up in to the tree canopy. Therefore, remove ladder fuel. This means trimming low hanging tree branches. If a bush is under a tree, make sure there's an air gap above the bush that's 2, 3, or 4 times as tall as the bush. (I forget the exact ratio.)

2) Prevent a grass fire from igniting the house. "Pave" around the house. Your idea of pea gravel is one possibility - though it would require regular weeding.

3) Prevent flying embers from getting into the structure. Seal up openings or cover them with a fine mesh.

[Hot Sauce]

When a fire is propelled by 50-100 mph winds, I don't think there's anything you can do except get out of the way. Look at the photos from the Tubbs Fire in 2017 - everything in its path was incinerated to the ground. IMO, the best thing you can do is watch weather and fire reports and make a plan to get your family and pets out before the fire gets to you. All these halfway measures, like removing all the trees and vegetation in your yard and replacing them with gravel, just makes life miserable before the fire comes.

This.

Same situation with the Lahaina fire on 8/8/2023. It was called a fire hurricane, as fierce winds were blowing the embers a mile per minute.

[heyyou]

My property is adjacent to the national forest in a southwestern state, and we are allowed to remove brush and trim trees for 100 feet into the national forest behind our property lines. Look for "firewise" info. Disposing of the cut brush is laborious.

At my intermediate elevation, there is extensive manzanita brush that is somewhat oily, and is notorious for burning fast in fires in the California wine country. Several years ago, in this national forest, a fire burned for 30 miles (200,000 acres!) before it was stopped where a highway ran beside a dry sandy creek bed, so the firetrucks could drive the paved, two lane road, spraying water. There was a nearby sand and gravel business with apparatus that could quickly load the water trucks that were doing the spraying. There is a full size jet airplane capable of bombing a wildfire with fire retardant slurry, that is stationed at the nearest commercial airport that has a long runway. Of course, it would currently be working in California.

[AlohaJoe]

When a fire is propelled by 50-100 mph winds, I don't think there's anything you can do except get out of the way. ... All these halfway measures, like removing all the trees and vegetation in your yard and replacing them with gravel, just makes life miserable before the fire comes.

So you admit that there are in fact things you can do? You just don't like them so you pretend they don't work?

Australia's 2020 Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements listed multiple things that would have worked. Regulations on facade gaps to prevent ember attack, regulations on glazing to prevent radiant heat attacks, regulations on windowsill and gutter design to prevent ember build up, requiring cyclone building standards to withstand pyro-convective plumes, etc.

They just haven't been adopted in America. Or even in Australia yet for that matter.

[Valuethinker]

When a fire is propelled by 50-100 mph winds, I don't think there's anything you can do except get out of the way. ... All these halfway measures, like removing all the trees and vegetation in your yard and replacing them with gravel, just makes life miserable before the fire comes.

So you admit that there are in fact things you can do? You just don't like them so you pretend they don't work?

Australia's 2020 Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements listed multiple things that would have worked. Regulations on facade gaps to prevent ember attack, regulations on glazing to prevent radiant heat attacks, regulations on windowsill and gutter design to prevent ember build up, requiring cyclone building standards to withstand pyro-convective plumes, etc.

They just haven't been adopted in America. Or even in Australia yet for that matter.

Thank you. That's a brilliant reference.

For Americans who are not familiar. Royal Commissions are often real "drains up" where they interview experts and witnesses, professional staff work for months writing a report based on testimony which members of the panel review intensely. Often those members are absolute experts in their field or very experienced lawyers etc.

They can be political whitewashes and they can take years. But one often finds, years later, that they correctly predicted the next disaster(s) and what should have been done.

The main thing I would add, though, and perhaps this was the thrust of the original post. Don't let your fire protection measures prevent your preparation for evacuation, bug-out bag w key documents etc, or your timely evacuation. Pacific Palisades it looks like no one died in the evacuation, but from the map I saw there were only 2 roads out.

Since before the dawn of human history, fire has been both our greatest friend, and a deadly enemy.

[LikeNumbers]

Wildfires are a constant conversation in mountainous areas.
We live at 8,000+ feet elevation in Northern New Mexico.

I think what is happening in CA is awful and wish everyone the best.

Preparations prior to any wildfire is what people do here.

Lookup FIREWISE, an organization that provides lots of good info.
I recognize that city life in different, but wildfire preparations start before fires arrive.
Also, FIREWISE recommendations do not stop wildfires, they focus on how
to reduce the spread. It is also worth mentioning that the best results come from
the entire community participating. The costs to be FIREWISE compliant can sometimes be
high (tens of thousands) but nothing compared to your home being totally destroyed.

The first thing I noticed when looking at the CA fires were few houses:
1. have a non-combustible area around their property (my area is 50+ feet, totally cleared of combustibles).
Many people think it should be 100ft.
2. removed dry grasses, pine needles, etc.(all removed withing the 50+ foot area)
3. thinned trees that were too close to each other
4. metal roofs and ember resistant vents, soffits, etc.
4. bug out bags filled with necessities (medicines, food, water, etc)

Most of my year round neighbors have plans on what to do, and many have backup generators
to keep their water wells available.

[Mrbogleheads]

I suppose it all comes down to how close your neighbors house is and is it as fireproof as yours

Wonder how an earth shelter would hold up. A home built into a mound. Doors and windows not facing neighbors houses

[Colorado14]

Talk to your insurance agent, as he/she may have recommendations. You may be eligible for a discount on your home owner's insurance if you complete the recommended mitigation. Or, at least that's the case here in the Denver metro area.

[Johninvestor]

In the past in the San Diego area, certain high net worth insurers offered an insurance program where homes would be sprayed with a total wrap of fire safety foam by a private fire fighting company during red flag warnings and high wind events. There are companies which install homeowner operated biodegradable heavy spray foam systems which encase the home in a shell of fireproof foam. One example: https://www.consumerfireproducts.com/wi ... stems.html I am not affiliated with any company and don't have such a system--- I chose to relocate.

[baconavocado]

When a fire is propelled by 50-100 mph winds, I don't think there's anything you can do except get out of the way. ... All these halfway measures, like removing all the trees and vegetation in your yard and replacing them with gravel, just makes life miserable before the fire comes.

So you admit that there are in fact things you can do? You just don't like them so you pretend they don't work?

Australia's 2020 Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements listed multiple things that would have worked. Regulations on facade gaps to prevent ember attack, regulations on glazing to prevent radiant heat attacks, regulations on windowsill and gutter design to prevent ember build up, requiring cyclone building standards to withstand pyro-convective plumes, etc.

They just haven't been adopted in America. Or even in Australia yet for that matter.

If you're super concerned about fire, you can move to a less fire prone area, like an area with less vegetation or more regular rainfall. Don't live in an area with a lot of vegetation and expect your neighbors to cut their trees down because you don't feel safe.

[roamingzebra]

All these halfway measures, like removing all the trees and vegetation in your yard and replacing them with gravel, just makes life miserable before the fire comes.

There's a happy medium. For example, in the 0-5-foot zone surrounding a home, keeping it clear of brush has the side benefit of making the required buffer for termite tenting.

It's zone 5-30 that is more complex. But high water costs are causing a lot of people to replace some vegetation with drought-resistant (high-water content) vegetation. So again, it's a fire mitigation measure that does double duty...lowering the water bill in this case.

[ondarvr]

So you admit that there are in fact things you can do? You just don't like them so you pretend they don't work?

Australia's 2020 Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements listed multiple things that would have worked. Regulations on facade gaps to prevent ember attack, regulations on glazing to prevent radiant heat attacks, regulations on windowsill and gutter design to prevent ember build up, requiring cyclone building standards to withstand pyro-convective plumes, etc.

They just haven't been adopted in America. Or even in Australia yet for that matter.

If you're super concerned about fire, you can move to a less fire prone area, like an area with less vegetation or more regular rainfall. Don't live in an area with a lot of vegetation and expect your neighbors to cut their trees down because you don't feel safe.

The West side of Oregon and Washington are considered wet and weren't on the list of places likely to burn. Oregon has had devastating fires on the West side of the Cascades recently and Washington is getting there too.

So that map of where to live to avoid fires is changing, and sometimes that's not realized until after the event.

[coffeeblack]

Given the news out of L.A., I'm sure many Bogleheads are thinking about how to fireproof their homes and the extent to which they should do so.

Our house is stucco with concrete roof tiles. We had our pest control company install mesh screens over the various attic vents. But we have wood fences and gates, and some shrubs, etc. against our house.

I've been considering removing the shrubs and filling it in with pea gravel. Also replacing the wood gates with metal. Also maybe installing those ember resistant soffits and eaves. See, e.g., https://firesafemarin.org/harden-your-h ... its-eaves/.

Does anyone have any experience in fireproofing homes? Any thoughts on what it would cost to replace 2 wood gates with metal ones? What about retrofitting soffit/eave vents?

I would like to play devils advocate.

1. If you made the changes now from wood to metal, wouldn't you just be throwing away perfectly working wood gates and spending the money prematurely? If they burn, couldn't you replace them then with metal gates? And, if the fire is like the fires that are currently burning, would saving a gate matter much?

2. In line with the same thought process. Would changing the soffits and eaves make any difference if everything attached and around it is gone?

3. Yes, gravel instead of shrubs would be helpful as long as there are no major winds or if it is far enough away from the house that it would make a difference.

Finally, no amount of fireproofing (unless you can cover your whole house with something that can withstand significant fire and heat) is going to protect you from the fire you see now.

In my opinion, save your money, keep the shrubs short and minimal, have good insurance (I know they suck) and if you still can't sleep at night, move to a different location.

[Seal the Deal]

That would be a waste of time and money in a big fire. As others have said, the intense heat and wind will incinerate most structures. Just look at the pics coming out of CA.

Easy for me to say, but I'd move to an area where these fires don't occur, or move to an underground home (soil covers top and three sides of the structure).

[stan1]

I noticed a post on social media from an architect who designed a house that survived by itself on a street in Pacific Palisades. It had fire resistant features, but what he said what most likely saved it was that the house next door was scraped to a vacant lot several weeks ago for a tear down remodel.

[Valuethinker]

That would be a waste of time and money in a big fire. As others have said, the intense heat and wind will incinerate most structures. Just look at the pics coming out of CA.

Easy for me to say, but I'd move to an area where these fires don't occur, or move to an underground home (soil covers top and three sides of the structure).

As long as this does not tempt the homeowner into trying to "stick it out" when the evacuation order comes. The usable oxygen will rapidly be consumed (plus the internal heat).

I think true fire-proofing is getting very much towards bunker-level protection. Tempered glass will fracture or melt if things get hot enough.

[Valuethinker]

In the past in the San Diego area, certain high net worth insurers offered an insurance program where homes would be sprayed with a total wrap of fire safety foam by a private fire fighting company during red flag warnings and high wind events. There are companies which install homeowner operated biodegradable heavy spray foam systems which encase the home in a shell of fireproof foam. One example: https://www.consumerfireproducts.com/wi ... stems.html I am not affiliated with any company and don't have such a system--- I chose to relocate.

This feels fairly tenuous against the scale of problem of a wildfire. That's just a gut feeling as opposed to true knowledge.

[Valuethinker]

I am sure there is a lot that can, and should, be done to reduce presence of inflammables around the home and property.

Also, pace Fort McMurray, any stored petroleum products such as gasoline or propane, is a bomb waiting to go off if superheated. Ditto household chemicals.

(That would also be true of the pressurised natural gas in pipes, not sure though what one can do about that).

It's important to accept the limits of what an individual homeowner can do against such titanic forces of nature. To be prepared to "Bug Out" as and when necessary, and have practiced what you would do if you only have say 10 minutes warning - it appears that warning times of that sort of scale are what you might only have.

The world we are living in is changing. Thinking of the heat dome that afflicted British Columbia and NW USA, which in the case of BC was followed by wildfires and then mudslides which obliterated a whole town (Langston BC from memory) and cut off part of the interior from the coast-- meaning the only road or rail access became over the Rockies from Alberta. So the revelation was the need to have air conditioning of some form if you lived in Vancouver BC, and the risk of wildfire.

[arcticpineapplecorp.]

here's a good article from npr from Sept 2024 about the fires in Hawaii not that long ago These houses survived one of the country's worst wildfires. Here’s how.

[KlangFool]

Given the news out of L.A., I'm sure many Bogleheads are thinking about how to fireproof their homes and the extent to which they should do so.

Our house is stucco with concrete roof tiles. We had our pest control company install mesh screens over the various attic vents. But we have wood fences and gates, and some shrubs, etc. against our house.

I've been considering removing the shrubs and filling it in with pea gravel. Also replacing the wood gates with metal. Also maybe installing those ember resistant soffits and eaves. See, e.g., https://firesafemarin.org/harden-your-h ... its-eaves/.

Does anyone have any experience in fireproofing homes? Any thoughts on what it would cost to replace 2 wood gates with metal ones? What about retrofitting soffit/eave vents?

Make sure that there are water in the fire hydrants. Or else, make sure that you have back up generator, water pump, and water tanks. Aka, you can fight fire on your own.

Someone used their back up generator, water pump, and water in their swimming pools to save their houses.

KlangFool

[Oreamnos]

2. In line with the same thought process. Would changing the soffits and eaves make any difference if everything attached and around it is gone?

Changing out the soffits/vents to the current "fireproof" standard makes it much less likely that everything attached would be gone. Flying embers getting sucked up into attic spaces via large soffit openings is one of the main mechanisms (if not THE most prominent mechanism) by which houses catch fire in wildfire events. They get in there, and things start burning before you can even see there's an active fire. By the time it's detected, it's too late.

[rbd789]

Given the news out of L.A., I'm sure many Bogleheads are thinking about how to fireproof their homes and the extent to which they should do so.

Our house is stucco with concrete roof tiles. We had our pest control company install mesh screens over the various attic vents. But we have wood fences and gates, and some shrubs, etc. against our house.

I've been considering removing the shrubs and filling it in with pea gravel. Also replacing the wood gates with metal. Also maybe installing those ember resistant soffits and eaves. See, e.g., https://firesafemarin.org/harden-your-h ... its-eaves/.

Does anyone have any experience in fireproofing homes? Any thoughts on what it would cost to replace 2 wood gates with metal ones? What about retrofitting soffit/eave vents?

Make sure that there are water in the fire hydrants. Or else, make sure that you have back up generator, water pump, and water tanks. Aka, you can fight fire on your own.

Someone used their back up generator, water pump, and water in their swimming pools to save their houses.

KlangFool

With all due respect to you, this is horribly foolish and dangerous advice for a wildfire situation.

[firebirdparts]

But it's worth understanding that once a wildfire gets going, there's not much practical you can do about it. It will tear through your house, and your neighbours. This is blast furnace heat, that will ignite everything that can be ignited, and vaporize much of the rest. If you are saved it is because the wind shifts or because firefighter actions manage to save a whole street or district.

I don't believe this at all, I will say that. If you've ever been to Maui, for instance, you'll remember that there are absolutely no trees on the western slopes, but there are in town. Lahaina burned in what would have been a grass fire if the universe got to decide. That actually happened. Around here, forest fires don't even get hot enough to kill the trees. The pines burn like gasoline, but they're not so prevalent here.

I'll never be put the test, but I don't think wildfire is a big deal on your own lawn (if you have one). You can look at your own lawn and decide how much self-inflicted fire risk you want to install.

There was also lot of talk in Lahaina about not having water, but of course the ocean was right there. If I lived somewhere that I was going to fight a grass fire, I would also store water like Klangfool suggested.

[KlangFool]

Make sure that there are water in the fire hydrants. Or else, make sure that you have back up generator, water pump, and water tanks. Aka, you can fight fire on your own.

Someone used their back up generator, water pump, and water in their swimming pools to save their houses.

KlangFool

With all due respect to you, this is horribly foolish and dangerous advice for a wildfire situation.

It is horribly foolish and dangerous to live in a place susceptible to wildfire and the fire hydrants has no water. But, if someone choose to live there, the only next best thing is to prepare fight fire on your own.

My good friend lived in Washington DC area. Every winter, the tree will fall on power line and knock off the power. This had gone on forever. He bought his own generator to make sure that he will not run out of power when it happened.

KlangFool

[Weathering]

Lookup "Zone 0" (Zone Zero). The insurance companies in CA (the few that are left) are pushing this, if not mandating it. Essentially, zone zero is the first five feet from a house. In zone zero there should not be any combustible materials: No wood mulch, no plants, no wood fences, no wood shade structures or fabric awnings, etc. I am "lucky" enough to live within a mile of an electricity transmission line that has a fund available for home fire defense for any residents within a mile of the power line. I received money from the fund for structure hardening several times between 2012 and 2017 (eaves/sofits, vents, tree removal), but then I got lazy and stopped creating new projects around the house. I need to get going on completing my zone zero (I have one remaining wood fence attached to my house (the other one was $1,400 to replace with an aluminum fence panel and gate), a wood shade structure (this will be expensive to change to aluminum and so I may go with a stucco sun room instead), a few knee-high plants that my spouse needs to be convinced they must go, and wood mulch that I would like to replace with the crushed granite you see in Arizona but I can't find here in southern CA.

I have many friends whose homes were impacted by wild fires back in the early 2000s. Even the homes that did not burn had their window frames melt, wires melted, pex water lines melted, smoke smell throughout their home (carpets, and even dry wall), fences/landscapes ruined partly by fire and partly by fire response. In short, they still went through rebuilding hell even though their homes did not burn.

[NeophyteCA]

2. In line with the same thought process. Would changing the soffits and eaves make any difference if everything attached and around it is gone?

Changing out the soffits/vents to the current "fireproof" standard makes it much less likely that everything attached would be gone. Flying embers getting sucked up into attic spaces via large soffit openings is one of the main mechanisms (if not THE most prominent mechanism) by which houses catch fire in wildfire events. They get in there, and things start burning before you can even see there's an active fire. By the time it's detected, it's too late.

This is what I was told by a volunteer firefighter friend.

The other thing mentioned was to have numerous hoses attached to or right next to outside water spigots - they want to save as much as they can as quickly as possible, so make it easy on them. If they can just turn on a hose instead of running back to the truck, you've made it simpler and faster to hose down your house. There are bright colored (yellow, neon green) hoses available to improve visibility in smoke.

[supalong52]

Lookup "Zone 0" (Zone Zero). The insurance companies in CA (the few that are left) are pushing this, if not mandating it. Essentially, zone zero is the first five feet from a house. In zone zero there should not be any combustible materials: No wood mulch, no plants, no wood fences, no wood shade structures or fabric awnings, etc. I am "lucky" enough to live within a mile of an electricity transmission line that has a fund available for home fire defense for any residents within a mile of the power line. I received money from the fund for structure hardening several times between 2012 and 2017 (eaves/sofits, vents, tree removal), but then I got lazy and stopped creating new projects around the house. I need to get going on completing my zone zero (I have one remaining wood fence attached to my house (the other one was $1,400 to replace with an aluminum fence panel and gate), a wood shade structure (this will be expensive to change to aluminum and so I may go with a stucco sun room instead), a few knee-high plants that my spouse needs to be convinced they must go, and wood mulch that I would like to replace with the crushed granite you see in Arizona but I can't find here in southern CA.

I have many friends whose homes were impacted by wild fires back in the early 2000s. Even the homes that did not burn had their window frames melt, wires melted, pex water lines melted, smoke smell throughout their home (carpets, and even dry wall), fences/landscapes ruined partly by fire and partly by fire response. In short, they still went through rebuilding hell even though their homes did not burn.

Thanks for this. We have two wooden gates/fences, a bunch of shrubs, a palm tree, and a giant bird of paradise. We also have two gable vents and 75 eave plugs that should get upgraded.

[toomanysidehustles]

We live in a very fire prone area (high desert plains of N. Colorado) and the goal is to not have flammable organic matter near your house. What happened in CA and HI also happened about 40 miles south of us (Marshall fire in 2021, 1,100 homes lost) - a much smaller scale but similar wind speeds and very dry conditions. https://apnews.com/article/marshall-fir ... f1ff386865

Unless you engineer your house from a new-build up with fire prevention in mind (building exclusively with fire-resistant materials), I'm not sure you can do much beside eliminating all landscaping/trees which can ignite your house. The family that saved their house and a few houses next to them was amazing and something I've though about if crap get real for us. We have a ~2,500 gallon swim spa (17'x8'x4.5'), a Honda generator, and a 2200 gph sump pump which actually has greater pressure than the water coming out of our faucet. We also have a 5/8" dia. hose which puts out a lot more water out than the standard 1/2" most big box stores sell. https://www.amazon.com/UltraFlex-Garden ... a1f72&th=1 When I drain the swim spa 2x/year, I tested it that I can reach up and over our roof easily in case of a fire/no water coming out of the house...so we can saturate the crap out of the house and yard. We also have an 1000 gallon water feature (pond) out front. Additionally we have a Ford F150 Powerboost which can power just about anything. This is my back up plan if things are bad and I'm at home.

[SmallSaver]

I'm sorry to say I don't have specifics, but I did want to weigh in. There is much well-meaning, anecdotal advice in this thread. However, this is a very well-researched question and I haven't seen much of the actual, practical advice. I would advise OP to keep digging, the USFS and others have been studying this for decades. There are definitely practical, concrete steps you can take to fire harden your home. Things like soffit design, roof material, and gutter construction can dramatically reduce the risk of ignition from wind-borne embers. If you live in the WUI (wildland-urban interface), creating defensible space is also very important. I googled "USFS wildfire home hardening" and the top half dozen results all looked good. There are real things that you can do that will certainly increase your odds and don't require a gut remodel.

Edit: here's a home hardening guide from CalFire.

[Valuethinker]

I'm sorry to say I don't have specifics, but I did want to weigh in. There is much well-meaning, anecdotal advice in this thread. However, this is a very well-researched question and I haven't seen much of the actual, practical advice. I would advise OP to keep digging, the USFS and others have been studying this for decades. There are definitely practical, concrete steps you can take to fire harden your home. Things like soffit design, roof material, and gutter construction can dramatically reduce the risk of ignition from wind-borne embers. If you live in the WUI (wildland-urban interface), creating defensible space is also very important. I googled "USFS wildfire home hardening" and the top half dozen results all looked good. There are real things that you can do that will certainly increase your odds and don't require a gut remodel.

Edit: here's a home hardening guide from CalFire.

Thank you. This looks very valuable.

It's not that one cannot do things to prevent fire. One certainly can - and should.

It's simply a caution about how, when a wildfire gets going, its destructive power and speed.

Things like emergency generators, you are also therefore storing a small bomb in terms of explosive power if the heat gets to it.

I get a bit Spidey-sense tingling when people talk about saving their house by active measures. Because the risk of fatality is significant.

[coffeeblack]

2. In line with the same thought process. Would changing the soffits and eaves make any difference if everything attached and around it is gone?

Changing out the soffits/vents to the current "fireproof" standard makes it much less likely that everything attached would be gone. Flying embers getting sucked up into attic spaces via large soffit openings is one of the main mechanisms (if not THE most prominent mechanism) by which houses catch fire in wildfire events. They get in there, and things start burning before you can even see there's an active fire. By the time it's detected, it's too late.

False security.
A fire of that magnitude means your home is going to be destroyed. Either by fire or toxic smoke fumes. They will set in the carpet, walls, everything.
If you are building a new home you can use all means to reduce risk. However, I believe it is mostly false security unless you have your own watering system that comes on and stays on while the fire is covering your home.

The best way to protect your home is to protect your investment by having insurance that will pay the replacement cost to todays standards. The other is if you are that worried about fire in your area, move to another area.

The rest is basically false security. Literally everything on the outside and inside the home is combustible. Just look at the devastation of the fires in LA. Forget about the inside of the house for a minute and look on the outside. Changing out some soffits may slow down the burn but it won't stop it.

[quantAndHold]

Changing out the soffits/vents to the current "fireproof" standard makes it much less likely that everything attached would be gone. Flying embers getting sucked up into attic spaces via large soffit openings is one of the main mechanisms (if not THE most prominent mechanism) by which houses catch fire in wildfire events. They get in there, and things start burning before you can even see there's an active fire. By the time it's detected, it's too late.

False security.
A fire of that magnitude means your home is going to be destroyed. Either by fire or toxic smoke fumes. They will set in the carpet, walls, everything.
If you are building a new home you can use all means to reduce risk. However, I believe it is mostly false security unless you have your own watering system that comes on and stays on while the fire is covering your home.

The best way to protect your home is to protect your investment by having insurance that will pay the replacement cost to todays standards. The other is if you are that worried about fire in your area, move to another area.

The rest is basically false security. Literally everything on the outside and inside the home is combustible. Just look at the devastation of the fires in LA. Forget about the inside of the house for a minute and look on the outside. Changing out some soffits may slow down the burn but it won't stop it.

A fire of “that magnitude” will indeed most likely take everything in its path. But there are many more fires that are not of “that magnitude”, and it is absolutely worth preparing for those fires. Things like fire resistant soffits and removing flammable materials around the perimeter will absolutely help with those fires.

[rockstar]

There has been so much misinformation about the fire in LA. That aside, there are some good write ups about the home that survived the fire in Maui. Of course, if a firenado comes for your home, you’re pretty much doomed.

[Oreamnos]

False security.
A fire of that magnitude means your home is going to be destroyed. Either by fire or toxic smoke fumes. They will set in the carpet, walls, everything.
If you are building a new home you can use all means to reduce risk. However, I believe it is mostly false security unless you have your own watering system that comes on and stays on while the fire is covering your home.

The best way to protect your home is to protect your investment by having insurance that will pay the replacement cost to todays standards. The other is if you are that worried about fire in your area, move to another area.

The rest is basically false security. Literally everything on the outside and inside the home is combustible. Just look at the devastation of the fires in LA. Forget about the inside of the house for a minute and look on the outside. Changing out some soffits may slow down the burn but it won't stop it.

A fire of “that magnitude” will indeed most likely take everything in its path. But there are many more fires that are not of “that magnitude”, and it is absolutely worth preparing for those fires. Things like fire resistant soffits and removing flammable materials around the perimeter will absolutely help with those fires.

Exactly. We see those conditions all the time in most western wildfires, like the one that got within a couple of miles of us just a few months ago.

[boomer_techie]

I noticed a post on social media from an architect who designed a house that survived by itself on a street in Pacific Palisades. It had fire resistant features, but what he said what most likely saved it was that the house next door was scraped to a vacant lot several weeks ago for a tear down remodel.

The vacant lot is down wind from the house that survived. The house just upwind burned. Actually, 31 consecutive houses upwind on that side of the street burned. In all, only two houses on that side of the street survived - the new construction house in question, and one that looks to be 90 years old.

[SmallSaver]

Two good articles on home wildfire risk with helfpul links:

California Has America's Strictest Wildfire Code

The Five Feet That Could Prevent the Next Palisades Fire (an overly sensationalized headline different than the original one, but a good read).

[supalong52]

We're getting a fire hardening assessment on Monday. We'll likely have that company handle our attic vents. We'll make a plan with our gardener to deal with the 5 ft perimeter around the house.