liability of unpermitted work when selling a home

[flyingcows]

Let's say your a home owner, your the 4th owner of a home that's 30 years old and you've lived in the home for 10 years. When you lived in the home, you had the following work done by licensed contractors, but at the time you didn't know if the required permitting was done:

- Replace HVAC systems
- Replace Water heater
- Reroof house with new shingles
- Rebuild front steps

Local county database doesn't have any records for this work. In terms of protecting one self from liability when selling a home, is the homeowner better off attempting to contact these contractors and going through the motions to get retroactive permits for the above things or is the seller protected from liability by disclosing these items as known unpermitted work? Wondering if it's worth pursuing retroactive permits in that situation. I'm guessing this is going to heavily depend on local laws

What about any work done by prior homeowners that the current homeowner has no knowledge of, is there any potential liability there as well? That would seem strange since current homeowner isn't going to know what prior homeowners have had done.

[Mr. Rumples]

This might provide an overview from local governments:
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/code/unpe ... nstruction
https://www.franklincountyva.gov/FAQ.aspx?QID=64

You might also look up the contractor(s) on the state agency which licenses contractors to see if they had a contractor's license and if they had disciplinary action.

In VA, this is the Dept. of Professional and Occupational Regulation; other states will have other agencies.

Depending on the state, this could cascade. In VA, getting a retroactive permit can be perfunctory with fines, but the inspector might make un-permitted work be brought up to current standards.

[J295]

What damages does a new homeowner incur by virtue of purchasing a house where there is unpermitted work in place?

[mchampse]

Probably a different answer depending on the county and state you live in. We sold a home with some unpermitted work. We disclosed it and that was the end of it. If you were doing structural work someone might be concerned but the type of stuff you are talking about is probably not a big deal. In my area, virtually no one gets a permit to replace a water heater.

[FrugalInvestor]

I had a concern about unpermitted work when I sold a house about ten years ago. It was in a rural area so the county was in charge of all permitting. I contacted the county, explained the situation and asked what I should do. They sent out an inspector to look at the work.

As I recall there were three separate small projects that had been done; a water heater replacement (gas to electric), a heated bathroom floor and a sump pump. After inspecting the work the inspector approved all three and I paid a permit fee to the county. Interestingly, had I permitted the jobs at the time they were done I would have paid three separate fees, but since the inspector only came out once I only had to pay a single fee.

I'm sure that permitting responsibilities and procedures vary widely by location so YMMV but this was my happy story.

[JustGotScammed]

Let's say your a home owner, your the 4th owner of a home that's 30 years old and you've lived in the home for 10 years. When you lived in the home, you had the following work done by licensed contractors, but at the time you didn't know if the required permitting was done:

- Replace HVAC systems
- Replace Water heater
- Reroof house with new shingles
- Rebuild front steps

Local county database doesn't have any records for this work. In terms of protecting one self from liability when selling a home, is the homeowner better off attempting to contact these contractors and going through the motions to get retroactive permits for the above things or is the seller protected from liability by disclosing these items as known unpermitted work? Wondering if it's worth pursuing retroactive permits in that situation. I'm guessing this is going to heavily depend on local laws

What about any work done by prior homeowners that the current homeowner has no knowledge of, is there any potential liability there as well? That would seem strange since current homeowner isn't going to know what prior homeowners have had done.

All you have to do is disclose the unpermitted work on the seller's disclosure. If you were super uptight about liability, you could make those portions as-is as a condition of any sale agreement.

[FeralCat]

These are small jobs, and if you trusted your contractors, I wouldn't worry about it. No one gets a permit for a new water heater where I live. Putting on a new roof definitely doesn't require a permit. Homebuyers get nervous about large renovations where it is difficult to judge the quality of work, not new front steps.

[quantAndHold]

In my location, none of those jobs would require a permit. If you had a licensed contractor and the work seems to be done correctly, I wouldn’t worry about it.

[lthenderson]

In my area as well, permits are not needed for any of those things. But when I sold my prior house and if I sell this one, I always sell it "as is" (while still disclosing known issues) to hopefully protect myself from liability.

[lazydavid]

These are small jobs, and if you trusted your contractors, I wouldn't worry about it. No one gets a permit for a new water heater where I live. Putting on a new roof definitely doesn't require a permit.

Everywhere I've lived, a new roof absolutely required a permit and inspections. We had ours replaced last year, I can send you a copy of the permit.

That said, until this thread prompted me to look, I didn't know that replacing a water heater required one. Oops.

[HomeStretch]

First determine whether or not any of this work required a permit in your area. Do you have a real estate attorney or agent you can discuss this situation with?

In my case, I keep copies of all permits for work done at my house and don’t pay the final contractor bill until/unless the permit is closed with the town as unpermitted work is a big deal here and can delay closing.

In my town, permits are required for all of the work you listed, above. My state requires attorneys to be involved in real estate closings. Buyers’ attorneys routinely ask about unpermitted work and review town permit records to insure all permits are closed and to determine whether the home updates/renovations touted in the house’s RE marketing listing were properly permitted. A couple closings I am aware of (including a family member’s) had closing requirements/delays for retroactive permits to be obtained. At one, the town building inspector required wall openings to be made to review wiring behind the sheetrock.

[smitcat]

These are small jobs, and if you trusted your contractors, I wouldn't worry about it. No one gets a permit for a new water heater where I live. Putting on a new roof definitely doesn't require a permit.

Everywhere I've lived, a new roof absolutely required a permit and inspections. We had ours replaced last year, I can send you a copy of the permit.

That said, until this thread prompted me to look, I didn't know that replacing a water heater required one. Oops.

Exactly what you said - additionally if/when a roof replacement (as one example) was done without a permit and the home then fails the prepurchase inspection all kinds of problems come up.

[dukeblue219]

Honestly this never crossed my mind with a roof, water heater, AC, etc. We've always used reputable, established companies to perform the work and I'd be happy to share the invoices with a prospective buyer. I'm in a relatively large and bureaucratic county but it never even entered my mind to ask if a permit was needed and if it was properly applied-for.

[Nowizard]

In our area, permits for existing homes are listed, at least by amounts, on the local residential site that anyone can access.

[flyingcows]

Honestly this never crossed my mind with a roof, water heater, AC, etc. We've always used reputable, established companies to perform the work and I'd be happy to share the invoices with a prospective buyer. I'm in a relatively large and bureaucratic county but it never even entered my mind to ask if a permit was needed and if it was properly applied-for.

Same situation here, for example, I've used the same licensed HVAC contractor over the years, he's been in business for 20+ years and replaced both of our systems over 10 years ago. Does work for many people in my neighborhood that I know, both systems have been working great and I don't have any reason to believe they cut corners with the installation. However with that work the question of permits never came up because I didn't know that was something I needed to specifically ask for or a process I needed to manage as the homeowner

When we had our deck rebuilt, that work was permitted and involved multiple inspections and a final sign off from the county inspector. That made sense to me since it was a structural project, and the contractor drove that permitting process and kept me informed, since I wouldn't have know otherwise. I can see that completed permit in the county database. However I never realized more mundane tasks like replacing a water heater or AC unit required permitting and inspection

So I guess my question is, if the quality of work isn't in question, the work was done years ago, does it make sense to try to retroactivly get permits for these kind of things or is it reasonable to just disclose the work at the time of sale, mention it was done by licensed contractors and provide that info but there was no associated permitting. Basically just wondering what the risks are I should be considering. For example I can see risks with requesting a retroactive permit for a roof that was reshingled 10 years ago...are they going to require it being torn open so they can take a look? Seems like requesting retroactive permits could be like opening a can of worms so I'm curious if disclosure at time of sale is the more reasonable path in a situation like this. No plans to sell the house anytime soon either, and we've bought and sold houses in this county in the past but this isn't something I had considered much previously, at least things like water heaters and HVAC systems

[flyingcows]

Let's say your a home owner, your the 4th owner of a home that's 30 years old and you've lived in the home for 10 years. When you lived in the home, you had the following work done by licensed contractors, but at the time you didn't know if the required permitting was done:

- Replace HVAC systems
- Replace Water heater
- Reroof house with new shingles
- Rebuild front steps

Local county database doesn't have any records for this work. In terms of protecting one self from liability when selling a home, is the homeowner better off attempting to contact these contractors and going through the motions to get retroactive permits for the above things or is the seller protected from liability by disclosing these items as known unpermitted work? Wondering if it's worth pursuing retroactive permits in that situation. I'm guessing this is going to heavily depend on local laws

What about any work done by prior homeowners that the current homeowner has no knowledge of, is there any potential liability there as well? That would seem strange since current homeowner isn't going to know what prior homeowners have had done.

All you have to do is disclose the unpermitted work on the seller's disclosure. If you were super uptight about liability, you could make those portions as-is as a condition of any sale agreement.

Gotcha, that's kind of what I was hoping to do, something like like that (a clear disclosure)

[criticalmass]

Let's say your a home owner, your the 4th owner of a home that's 30 years old and you've lived in the home for 10 years. When you lived in the home, you had the following work done by licensed contractors, but at the time you didn't know if the required permitting was done:

- Replace HVAC systems
- Replace Water heater
- Reroof house with new shingles
- Rebuild front steps

None of this requires a permit in my county unless the appliances are gas. Then you need a simple gas connection permit and inspection, about $50 each for water heater and furnace.
But some places do require permits for replacing an existing roof, even replacing existing windows! Check your building office for details, they would know what your locality needs specifically for your situation; Bogleheads forum wouldn’t know your local requirements.

[criticalmass]

These are small jobs, and if you trusted your contractors, I wouldn't worry about it. No one gets a permit for a new water heater where I live. Putting on a new roof definitely doesn't require a permit.

Everywhere I've lived, a new roof absolutely required a permit and inspections. We had ours replaced last year, I can send you a copy of the permit.

That said, until this thread prompted me to look, I didn't know that replacing a water heater required one. Oops.

Definitely not the case where I live now. Add long as the roof replaces an existing roof, no permit needed.
In contrast, many Massachusetts towns wanted a permit if more than half of roof was replaced.

[flyingcows]

Let's say your a home owner, your the 4th owner of a home that's 30 years old and you've lived in the home for 10 years. When you lived in the home, you had the following work done by licensed contractors, but at the time you didn't know if the required permitting was done:

- Replace HVAC systems
- Replace Water heater
- Reroof house with new shingles
- Rebuild front steps

None of this requires a permit in my county unless the appliances are gas. Then you need a simple gas connection permit and inspection, about $50 each for water heater and furnace.
But some places do require permits for replacing an existing roof, even replacing existing windows! Check your building office for details, they would know what your locality needs specifically for your situation; Bogleheads forum wouldn’t know your local requirements.

Gotcha and understood about specific local requirements about what does and doesn't require a permit, I was more curious about what to do when your in a situation where work was done by a licensed contractor, and years later you find out that kind of work required a permit to do. Do you go to the trouble of getting those permits retroactively or do you wait until you sell the house and simply disclose the work and the lack of associated permits? I guess the answer to that probably also depends on local laws

[HomeStretch]

… I was more curious about what to do when your in a situation where work was done by a licensed contractor, and years later you find out that kind of work required a permit to do. Do you go to the trouble of getting those permits retroactively or do you wait until you sell the house and simply disclose the work and the lack of associated permits? …

In your case, getting retroactive permits only seems to matter if properly-disclosed unpermitted work causes closing issues or causes buyers to make a reduced $ offer or to not make an offer at all. A real estate attorney or real estate agent can give you the best feedback based on your location and selling environment.

[Legoman666]

Where I live, no one would even think to ask about permits. Contractors would probably laugh at you if you asked them to get one. The only permit I’ve ever pulled was for solar because the utility required it for PTO. We replaced HVAC, windows, roofs, appliances, water heaters, electric meter, added circuits, remodeled bathrooms, etc.

Some of you guys live in places so mired by bureaucracy that it’s a wonder anything gets accomplished.

[SuzBanyan]

As already noted, the issue will likely be local. And it may depend a lot on what has happened in the past. The HOA where I just bought requires a review for unpermitted work before closing and retroactive permits as needed. But this is because there was apparently a long history of DIY projects gone wrong, like enclosing balconies on upstairs units without complying with Code resulting in damage to neighboring properties.

[HomeStretch]

… Some of you guys live in places so mired by bureaucracy that it’s a wonder anything gets accomplished.

It’s a matter of opinion.

My town’s building inspectors are pretty good. They are cautious given a fire in town that killed two people in an unpermitted basement bedroom. If an inspection had been done, the inspector should have flagged there weren’t two points of egress which is required here in bedrooms.

The other thing is the shoddy work done by some home owners DIYing a la HGTV or using the cheapest contractor even if unlicensed. Hopefully the inspectors would catch anything really hazardous.

[enad]

You can google it, in our county no permit is needed to replace a water heater, but any changes to the structure including the replacement of an HVAC system requires a permit So in our case:

Replace HVAC systems (permit required)
Replace Water heater (no permit required)
Reroof house with new shingles (permit required)
Rebuild front steps (permit required)

The issue you may run into if you bring out an inspector is if they can't access something that needs to be checked more than one time before work can proceed. If you have pictures of the work after each part is being done it may help. In our case the inspection "pass" was affixed to the inside of the electrical panels door with the inspectors signature, type of work and date.

[stan1]

In some locations pulling a permit can mean extensive work to retrofit the structure to existing building codes (such as interconnected, wired smoke detectors).

[av111]

I think a local realtor and attorney could be your best guide in navigating this. That said, I have bought several homes. Permits are generally available for major extensions but I have never seen permits for minor remodels or roofs or Hvac. When I bought the homes the problems became mine

[lazydavid]

Some of you guys live in places so mired by bureaucracy that it’s a wonder anything gets accomplished.

Roof permits (among others) here are "counter issued" which means the contractor goes to the village hall, presents their license and insurance, pays the $50 and walks out with a permit. Then they just have to call and schedule the inspection.

I don't know that I'd consider <30 minutes of total overhead for one person--on a >$23k job that took dozens of people 2 long days to complete--to be "mired by bureaucracy".

[firebirdparts]

I certainly wouldn't do it.

[investingdad]

I think the most important thing you can do is disclose it and make sure you’re 100% transparent about it and ensure the buyer acknowledges it. Maybe check with a real estate attorney as well.

Any hassle and cost now is WAY less than if you don’t disclose and it comes back post sale.

[quantAndHold]

I agree with the person saying to check with a local realtor.

As a buyer, I wouldn’t expect there to be permits for run of the mill things like that, and I wouldn’t expect my inspector to look at all of them anyway.

I would, however check permits for a remodel, especially if the house looks like a flip. Or if my inspector turned up some shoddy work.

What you should do depends on a) if permits are even required, and b) if the disclosure of a lack of permits for these jobs is actually going to scuttle a sale.

[yankees60]

I've had a fair amount of work done to my house and permits have never been a concern.

I've paid for them when the contractor informs me that it was a cost they had to pay and am passing on to me.

[criticalmass]

Where I live, no one would even think to ask about permits. Contractors would probably laugh at you if you asked them to get one. The only permit I’ve ever pulled was for solar because the utility required it for PTO. We replaced HVAC, windows, roofs, appliances, water heaters, electric meter, added circuits, remodeled bathrooms, etc.

Some of you guys live in places so mired by bureaucracy that it’s a wonder anything gets accomplished.

Safety permit inspections are "mired by bureaucracy? A local house blew up a few years ago. The cause was investigated and eventually learned that a gas appliance was installed improperly. It was never found in an inspection because there was no permit thus no inspection. No one told the contractor how many people they killed.

[Carl53]

Current home is in a midwest city that requires permits for virtually everything. Pretty much a joke to everyone as to the value of the money grab, pretty much just months of delay. That said many significant items do go through the process. We probably paid contractors $1000 or more for permits/inspections for upgrades before we moved in and some items that were change orders may have been completed without going through the entire process again. The inspectors were generally reasonable about such changes. Homes in my area of the city are virtually all from the late 19th century. Needless to say there were no permits done for their construction or for any work done over the next 80-100+ years.

[hudson]

Wondering if it's worth pursuing retroactive permits in that situation. I'm guessing this is going to heavily depend on local laws

Sure local laws.
Liability? Legal question
Permits and selling a house? Realtor question
I've only seen permits for new construction like adding a room or adding a whole house generator. Over the last 50 years, I've replaced almost everything else in or on my house without a permit.
I speculate that electrical construction or upgrades would be an important area to look at.
I don't think that do-it-yourself jobs require a permit.
I've never sold a house.

[London]

How unpermitted work impacts a sale is location and buyer specific. When I bought my house I found out there was an open permit for the basement. When I called to find out what it would take to close it, the town flatly asked me why I cared. As a buyer, I didn’t really care.

In terms of liability, just disclose what you know. Then it will be up to the buyer to decide if it matters.

[CAsage]

Funny, we just bought a house in a decent neighborhood, in a competitive market. The house was clean, but infrastructure was suspect - not structural, but inadequate electrical, HVAC, insulation, etc. Standards have changed. While they remodeled the kitchen and a bath, as well as other things.... Nope, not a single permit. The realtor just shook his head and said none of it was permitted - take it or leave it. We did a super deep dive inspection and tackled the upgrades/fixes on our own. There were other buyers who would have taken it in a heartbeat, as is.

[michaeljc70]

I wouldn't worry about it (what can you do about it now anyway?) If you put on an addition, build a garage or other structure and don't get permits I would worry about that.

[WoostaGal]

My understanding is if there is damage to the house which is associated with unpermitted work done by the current owner, insurance may not pay. For example, plumbing work done without a permit and there is a leak or flood.

[Dregob]

Let's say your a home owner, your the 4th owner of a home that's 30 years old and you've lived in the home for 10 years. When you lived in the home, you had the following work done by licensed contractors, but at the time you didn't know if the required permitting was done:

- Replace HVAC systems
- Replace Water heater
- Reroof house with new shingles
- Rebuild front steps

Local county database doesn't have any records for this work. In terms of protecting one self from liability when selling a home, is the homeowner better off attempting to contact these contractors and going through the motions to get retroactive permits for the above things or is the seller protected from liability by disclosing these items as known unpermitted work? Wondering if it's worth pursuing retroactive permits in that situation. I'm guessing this is going to heavily depend on local laws

What about any work done by prior homeowners that the current homeowner has no knowledge of, is there any potential liability there as well? That would seem strange since current homeowner isn't going to know what prior homeowners have had done.

Our house was built in 1945. It would be impossible todetermine if projects over the last 80 years were permitted.
I would not worry about it.

[hoofaman]

My understanding is if there is damage to the house which is associated with unpermitted work done by the current owner, insurance may not pay. For example, plumbing work done without a permit and there is a leak or flood.

I've heard the same, but when I read my state farm home owners insurance policy I didn't recall seeing any exclusions or any mention of unpermitted work, although they it does mention that won't cover damages related to "negligence" per my understanding of the policy. When I spoke to my insurance agent about that, one example he gave me was a water line leak, if pipes burst and I had it repaired once I found out it would be covered...but if I knew about it and let it leak for a month, that damage wouldn't be covered.

For permits I guess it depends on where you live, but around here if you use a licensed plumber to replace your water heater there will be no mention of permits or inspections. So, the majority of home owners would have no idea that's even a thing. There would be no permit unless the homeowner knows to ask and they go through the motions. If grandmas water heater fails, she pays a plumber to install a new one and 5 years later the house burns down and the cause is determined to be a loose gasline connection on the water heater...will insurance tell grandma to go pound sand because she didn't know she needed to go through he motions with her local building inspector? Somehow I doubt that, just because I'd assume majority of homeowners would fall into the category of grandma where they had no idea.

I'm not in the trades so I can't speak to this part, but isn't part of the point of the licensed trades (HVAC, plumbing, etc) to understand building code and have a requirement to conform to them? Shouldn't the homeowner who uses such persons to install a water heater be able to trust it's correctly and safely installed?

Now if bubba knocks down a wall and adds his own building extension, runs his own power and plumbing in a way that doesn't conform to code, and doesn't permit it, maybe there would be a negligence case there but even then....eh, I mean home owners insurance covers someone who burns there house down due to any number of careless mistakes, so who knows. If someone forgets to turn their stove off, leaves the house, and it causes a fire, isn't that negligence? Id bet homeowners would cover that, so I have no idea

[montanagirl]

We sold in a hot market and it did not matter at all. Our deck and furnace were permitted, but not the finished basement, kitchen rewiring, or front porch replacement. No legal egress window in the basement bedroom.

The county database still showed out 2400sf as 1100 because of the illegal work so I worried about a reckoning but no one seemed to care.

[michaeljc70]

My understanding is if there is damage to the house which is associated with unpermitted work done by the current owner, insurance may not pay. For example, plumbing work done without a permit and there is a leak or flood.

I've heard the same, but when I read my state farm home owners insurance policy I didn't recall seeing any exclusions or any mention of unpermitted work, although they it does mention that won't cover damages related to "negligence" per my understanding of the policy. When I spoke to my insurance agent about that, one example he gave me was a water line leak, if pipes burst and I had it repaired once I found out it would be covered...but if I knew about it and let it leak for a month, that damage wouldn't be covered.

For permits I guess it depends on where you live, but around here if you use a licensed plumber to replace your water heater there will be no mention of permits or inspections. So, the majority of home owners would have no idea that's even a thing. There would be no permit unless the homeowner knows to ask and they go through the motions. If grandmas water heater fails, she pays a plumber to install a new one and 5 years later the house burns down and the cause is determined to be a loose gasline connection on the water heater...will insurance tell grandma to go pound sand because she didn't know she needed to go through he motions with her local building inspector? Somehow I doubt that, just because I'd assume majority of homeowners would fall into the category of grandma where they had no idea.

I'm not in the trades so I can't speak to this part, but isn't part of the point of the licensed trades (HVAC, plumbing, etc) to understand building code and have a requirement to conform to them? Shouldn't the homeowner who uses such persons to install a water heater be able to trust it's correctly and safely installed?

Now if bubba knocks down a wall and adds his own building extension, runs his own power and plumbing in a way that doesn't conform to code, and doesn't permit it, maybe there would be a negligence case there but even then....eh, I mean home owners insurance covers someone who burns there house down due to any number of careless mistakes, so who knows. If someone forgets to turn their stove off, leaves the house, and it causes a fire, isn't that negligence? Id bet homeowners would cover that, so I have no idea

I don't think that it is them not understanding. Permits involve time. To go get the permit. Wait for inspection(s). A 3 hour 1 visit job can turn into a 10 hour 3 visit job. They don't want to do that. The reason is they don't want the hassle and because the customer doesn't want to pay 3x the price.

Let's face it, there are legitimate reasons for permits. In some cases it is just a money grab.

[cheese_breath]

Where I used to live they did the first three without permits.

The last one? No pemit you could classify it as maintenance. But a total rebuild? I don't know.

[WoostaGal]

My understanding is if there is damage to the house which is associated with unpermitted work done by the current owner, insurance may not pay. For example, plumbing work done without a permit and there is a leak or flood.

...

I'm not in the trades so I can't speak to this part, but isn't part of the point of the licensed trades (HVAC, plumbing, etc) to understand building code and have a requirement to conform to them? Shouldn't the homeowner who uses such persons to install a water heater be able to trust it's correctly and safely installed?

...

You would think so, wouldn't you? And since I'm not in the trades and don't know the codes, I don't feel in a position to judge. But I can tell you that in the recent heat pump installation I had the city electrical inspector took issue with a number of aspects of the work (done by a licensed electrician) and the heat pump folks had to come back and make several modifications. This heat pump company is highly rated and claims they install the most heat pumps on the East coast of the US, so should be very familiar with codes, etc.

One item raised by city electrical inspector: I bought a surge protector primarily to protect the heat pumps and the heat pump electrician installed it it on the main electrical panel. There is a separate small electrical panel for the four heat pumps, and the electrical inspector claimed the house surge protector would not cover them. The heat pumps are a significant investment and I wasn't so happy when the electrical inspector told me they weren't protected. The electrical inspector made them install a separate surge protector on the heat pump electrical panel.

[chw]

Usually, I use an attorney to represent me for all aspects of the sale including review of the offer and purchase and sale agreement. Sold a home 7 years ago, which did have some un-permitted work. There was language in the sales contract that stated the buyer was buying the home "as-is" (after negotiated repairs were completed between buyer/seller). I believe there was some additional language around the as-is language, but basically, once the home sale was complete, there was no longer any liability assumed by the seller.

Disclosure laws vary by state, so good to either be represented by an experienced real estate agent working for you, or experienced real estate lawyer. Many here try to DIY the sales process, but don't realize what could go wrong during or after the sales process. IMO, always good to be represented by a real estate attorney (at a minimum for contract review). Whether you engage with a sales professional depends on your level of experience in the real estate industry, and comfort dealing with potential buyer demands.

[JackoC]

Our house was built in 1945. It would be impossible todetermine if projects over the last 80 years were permitted.
I would not worry about it.

But I guess the issue would be unpermitted work I had done, not all unpermitted work in the last 124 yrs*. But while I can see a basis for this question now that I think of it, I never encountered (or noticed) the issue. And our city is hard to beat for bureaucracy (won't digress too much on that but structure, gas line and major electrical work is one thing, I just spent more than a month getting permits to replace a wooden fence exact same location and type). I don't recall it coming up when we sold previous place and bought this one 30+ yrs ago. Extensive fire repairs early on and kitchen remodeling and central AC a few years ago were permitted. I've used 'established' plumber in town to replace water heater (twice) not trying to save on a newcomer or DIY (I'm somewhat handy) on idea of being extra careful about gas-related stuff. But that work was not inspected, nor replacing the furnace once. It may not be required to connect an appliance to an existing line, though I couldn't say that 100%. I know it is required to re-route a gas line because we had to do it for the kitchen project. No leaks in years plus the home inspection should put it in the category of remote liability risks though, and you can't eliminate all of those.

*somebody used compressed newspaper, dated 1931, to stop up a gap inside the chimney, wonder if that was inspected.

[Bobby206]

We sold a house where we were not certain if proper permits were obtained for work done while we owned the house. We disclosed that in our disclosures. I am not a real estate attorney so not sure that's the best answer but that's what we did. Hopefully that will suffice.

[LotsaGray]

In my location, none of those jobs would require a permit. If you had a licensed contractor and the work seems to be done correctly, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Agreed, while not in NYC or Cali, but here none of these jobs require a permit. If you even went to get a permit for replacing water heater or HVAC I doubt the office would even know how to issue such a permit.

[ccieemeritus]

In my locality (a city in CA) the following 3 items on your list require a permit:

- Replace HVAC systems
- Replace Water heater
- Reroof house with new shingles

I don't know for replacing the stairs.

When I recently was house-hunting, I saw disclosures of unpermitted work all the time. The seller's golden rule is "DISCLOSE DISCLOSE DISCLOSE". Most house sales in my area are as-is, but a failure to disclose a known problem is a big no-no. Unpermitted additional rooms were generally not added to the official square footage. Typical listing: "2500 square feet + 400 square foot unpermitted bonus room".

One seller disclosed a gas stovetop installed in a bedroom. Downright illegal.

In your situation I would not retroactively try to get an inspection/permit. I would DISCLOSE the lack of permit and sell.

You don't know details of the house before you moved in. But make sure to review your original home purchase documents to see what was disclosed to you. That's not only something you "know". That's something they can prove in writing that you "knew" (even if you forgot).

You don't have to disclose unknown defects of your house. How could you? You only need to disclose the defects you know about. This is why sellers don't want you to test for asbestos. They don't know there's asbestos. So they don't need to disclose anything. But they won't let you do a test because then they might find out and be forced to disclose in the future.

In my area contractors usually charge extra for obtaining permits and standing the inspection. I always pay extra to have the contractor get the permit and stand the inspection (rather than get the permit myself). I feel that motivates them to do a good job.

If you didn't pay your contractor extra for a permit, they didn't get a permit and didn't stand an inspection.

A less-expensive alternative is to make sure the contractor quote includes "Work must pass inspection. Customer will get permit and stand inspection".

Humor: I recently did a repipe where the inspector had a back problem and didn't even go under the house to look. The plumber standing the inspection was offended.