AO Smith hybrid heat pump water heaters?

[CedarWaxWing]

My adult son is interested in getting a hybrid heat pump water heater, and AO Smith has been mentioned by a plumber as a good brand.
That plumber suggested that he should get and install one (HPTU 50 CTA 130).

That model has the cold water feed line doing in at the bottom of the tank, and the feed line in the garage is at the top of where the tank will go.

Does anyone here have any experience with a high quality hybrid heat pump water heater with both the cold and hot water line ports on the top of the tank?

The plumbing supply company person I spoke with did not seem to know much about these products.

AO Smith's "technical" line by phone was not helpful either. when I asked if there was any particular reason the cold feed line should be on the bottom in a heat pump water heater.

Thank you.

[LadyGeek]

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (water heater).

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and explained what's wrong.)

[CedarWaxWing]

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (water heater).

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and explained what's wrong.)

Thank you!

[StrongMBS]

My adult son is interested in getting a hybrid heat pump water heater, and AO Smith has been mentioned by a plumber as a good brand.
That plumber suggested that he should get and install one (HPTU 50 CTA 130).

That model has the cold water feed line doing in at the bottom of the tank, and the feed line in the garage is at the top of where the tank will go.

Does anyone here have any experience with a high quality hybrid heat pump water heater with both the cold and hot water line ports on the top of the tank?

The plumbing supply company person I spoke with did not seem to know much about these products.

AO Smith's "technical" line by phone was not helpful either. when I asked if there was any particular reason the cold feed line should be on the bottom in a heat pump water heater.

Thank you.

How about the HTPS-50, a newer "smart" version of the HTPU (although the app suck and so it is not too smart but the app is improving all the time) it has cold input on bottom or top.

Word of caution when you get it plump make sure you keep the hot water pipes out of the cold air exhaust on the top of the unit.

[mgensler]

Cold water input on the bottom eliminates the fill tube on a top port tank that sometimes break in the tank. You just need your plumber to extend the water line down. It shouldn't be a big deal.

[mkc]

We have had 2 failures in 3 years with State (AO Smith) heat pump water heaters. The first was after 18 months in new construction. The second 12 months after that on the second unit.

Both failed to operate on heat pump mode. The unit is not serviceable, so you have to replace the entire water heater. While the first replacement was "free", we had to pick it up ourselves, hire a plumber to install, and dispose of the old unit ourselves.

In failure, you can force it to standard heat for 48 hours, after which it reverts to heat pump mode, so unlike other brands, you can't readily force it to stay on "standard" (resistive element) mode.

I suggest your son find another brand if he wants to go heat pump water heater.

[Woodshark]

Two other points to consider if you are installing a heat pump water heater.

1. They are not loud, but they do use a compressor so they do make noise. Something to consider if it's placed inside the house.
2. They don't heat water like a normal water heater, but it pulls heat from the surrounding area to heat the water. If placed indoors, in the winter it's actually cooling the air around it as it extract the heat to heat the water. This means you're paying to heat the air in the house, only to again pay to run the heat pump water heater to transfer that that heat to the water.

[CedarWaxWing]

We have had 2 failures in 3 years with State (AO Smith) heat pump water heaters. The first was after 18 months in new construction. The second 12 months after that on the second unit.

Both failed to operate on heat pump mode. The unit is not serviceable, so you have to replace the entire water heater. While the first replacement was "free", we had to pick it up ourselves, hire a plumber to install, and dispose of the old unit ourselves.

In failure, you can force it to standard heat for 48 hours, after which it reverts to heat pump mode, so unlike other brands, you can't readily force it to stay on "standard" (resistive element) mode.

I suggest your son find another brand if he wants to go heat pump water heater.

Any alternative brand/models that you would suggest? thank you.

[OnTrack]

This means you're paying to heat the air in the house, only to again pay to run the heat pump water heater to transfer that that heat to the water.

But then in the summer, I would think it would cool the house, so maybe the extra heating expense in the winter would be offset by less cooling expense in the summer?

[mchampse]

We have had 2 failures in 3 years with State (AO Smith) heat pump water heaters. The first was after 18 months in new construction. The second 12 months after that on the second unit.

Both failed to operate on heat pump mode. The unit is not serviceable, so you have to replace the entire water heater. While the first replacement was "free", we had to pick it up ourselves, hire a plumber to install, and dispose of the old unit ourselves.

In failure, you can force it to standard heat for 48 hours, after which it reverts to heat pump mode, so unlike other brands, you can't readily force it to stay on "standard" (resistive element) mode.

I suggest your son find another brand if he wants to go heat pump water heater.

Have purchased 7 Rheem ProTerra HPHW for a rental building. Only have had trouble with one of them and Rheem overnighted parts and paid for someone to come out and replace them.

[inverter]

We installed a Rheem ProTerra and have been happy with it. Purchased from Home Depot.

[thedane]

A few notes:

First of all: Home Depot has a great sale right now on the Rheem ProTerra 50 Gal Hybrid Heat Pump hot water heater for $1487 - BEFORE any tax credits and rebates.
In my zip code my local utility company rebate would be $700
Federal tax credit would be 30% of the $1487, so $446.10
Total rebate and tax credit: 1146.10
Net cost to me post rebate/tax credit: $340.90 for a brand hybrid heat pump new water heater!

Now, some notes:
1) It makes some noise. If it lives in a garage, no issues. Think of the noise as an older loud refrigerator.
2) It extracts hot air from the room it is in. So if you're in a year round warm climate this unit is a no brainer. But if you live somewhere that you need to heat the room that the water heater is in, then keep in mind this will suck warm air out of that room. In the winter, we switch ours to resistance heating.
3) It is super energy efficient! Like 20% of the energy used by a standard electric water heater.
4) I recommend to size up from what you have today due to slightly slower recovery time. So if you have a 40 gallon today, get a 50 gallon hybrid.
5) This is a hybrid. So it can operate in heat pump mode or in resistance heating mode, or a combination. You can control it. It is obviously most efficient in heat pump mode.
6) We have had ours for 2 ish years, and works well for our needs.

[Valuethinker]

This means you're paying to heat the air in the house, only to again pay to run the heat pump water heater to transfer that that heat to the water.

But then in the summer, I would think it would cool the house, so maybe the extra heating expense in the winter would be offset by less cooling expense in the summer?

It won't.

Because you will pull say 3kwhr of heat out of the air, but that heat has to go somewhere ie into the hot water. It stays inside the thermal envelope of the house. As will the 1 kwhr energy used by the heat pump in doing this. (2nd?) Law of Thermodynamics: energy is neither created nor destroyed.

The magic of a heat pump like a mini-split is that it is (in summer) heating the air outside the house, whilst cooling the air inside. Or (in winter) cooling the outside air whilst heating the inside air.

You don't have that outside heat exchange with a HP water heater. Their advantage is that whereas with gas or electric bar heating of hot water, 1 kwhr of energy input as gas or electricity => 0.9-1.0 kwhr of hot water. W a HP water heater, the exchange ratio is more like 1 kwhr of electricity => 2-3 kwhr of hot water.

Caveats

- in winter, some of that heat will go back into the house (eg when you are having a shower) and some will go down the drain (as water hotter than the outside temperature). The additional energy consumed by running the HP water heater will go into the house as heat.

- in summer, again some of the energy will be a net loss to the house - running down the drain as hot water. The energy to run the HP will also be heating the house.

[Tubes]

Great idea, but too complex causing many early failures.

If the regulators thing this is such a good idea, they need to add to the regulations expected life expectancy of at least 10 years. Having units last less than 5 years is hard on the environment and erases the gains from what is really a super great idea.

[ScubaHogg]

I’ve had two highly rated Rheem HPWH. Neither has really performed as expected. Other people on here say they love theirs, but I cannot seem to get the “heat pump only” setting to provide nearly enough hot water. I have to schedule it where it’s in “high demand” setting a lot (more when it’s cold outside), which I believe is a mode where both the heat pump and electric heater work in conjunction

I doubt I’d get one again since it’s unlikely I’ll ever recover the premium I paid for it. Especially where I live with its lower electricity costs.

[ScubaHogg]

It won't.

Because you will pull say 3kwhr of heat out of the air, but that heat has to go somewhere ie into the hot water. It stays inside the thermal envelope of the house. As will the 1 kwhr energy used by the heat pump in doing this. (2nd?) Law of Thermodynamics: energy is neither created nor destroyed.

Compared to what though? Compared to just an electric HWH, which is net adding energy to the house a HPWH would make for a marginally cooler house since it would just be moving energy around

[JoeNJ28]

Love our Rheem HP water heater, zero complaints never needed a repair and always has hot water.

[Valuethinker]

It won't.

Because you will pull say 3kwhr of heat out of the air, but that heat has to go somewhere ie into the hot water. It stays inside the thermal envelope of the house. As will the 1 kwhr energy used by the heat pump in doing this. (2nd?) Law of Thermodynamics: energy is neither created nor destroyed.

Compared to what though? Compared to just an electric HWH, which is net adding energy to the house a HPWH would make for a marginally cooler house since it would just be moving energy around

Agree that in summer it should be somewhat cooler (depending on how much hot water just goes down the drain).

And in winter not as hot (more efficient for the same amount of hot water).

With all the caveats that it's not a perfectly closed system.

One effect I had heard is that due to air pressure it tends to suck in cold air into the house when running in winter-- coming through gaps in the house's thermal envelope?

[PoorPlumber]

Nope.

[inverter]

Great idea, but too complex causing many early failures.

If the regulators thing this is such a good idea, they need to add to the regulations expected life expectancy of at least 10 years. Having units last less than 5 years is hard on the environment and erases the gains from what is really a super great idea.

Rheem has a ten year warranty.

[mkc]

Great idea, but too complex causing many early failures.

If the regulators thing this is such a good idea, they need to add to the regulations expected life expectancy of at least 10 years. Having units last less than 5 years is hard on the environment and erases the gains from what is really a super great idea.

Rheem has a ten year warranty.

Is the heat pump module serviceable, or do you need to replace the entire water heater like you do with AO Smith/State? Our State has a 10 year warranty. As noted above, the entire water heater has been replaced once and needs to be replaced again, with more than half the original warranty still to go.