Changed my mind [on consumer issues]

[YeahBuddy]

In our never ending pursuit of learning, education, and wisdom, we often change our minds when presented with new data, news, facts, or evidence. I have recently changed my mind on the topics below and why I changed my mind. Feel free to share your own experiences, as the actionable part of this is you could change my mind on other topics or change others minds!

Nitrogen in tires
I always thought this was a gimmick. Filling my tires with pure nitrogen at an additional cost? Ridiculous. Air is already ~78% nitrogen. Well, after having just had tires installed at Costco, where they nitrogen fill the tires and offer free purge and nitrogen refill, I did a little digging and pure nitrogen has some advantages. Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure. Since nitrogen purge and refills are free at Costco, I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

Home renovation
Almost every year since we moved into our home, we do one or two major projects. I've always looked at it from a pride in ownership standpoint. And I am OK spending money and or leveraging debt to make the house the way we want it. Well, I'm starting to look at it like dollars that could have been invested and lead to more financial stability, higher NW, earlier retirement, generational wealthy, etc. A close friend does the bare minimum to his home, finds DIY solutions, so I'm leaning towards this now.

Pets
We love our pets. We currently have a dog and 3 cats. We have owned guinea pigs, a rabbit, fish, etc. Our daughter is a budding veterinarian. We have paid far too little attention to the cost associated with them. But as they age and require medical interventions, we are now much more aware of the costs associated with them. They also add more tasks, planning for trips, more middle of the night wake up calls, etc. We will probably not buy a lot more in the future.

Home wifi
I posted recently about home wifi problems. I purchased "pods" from the cable internet company, and they are terrible. I always looked at it like this is a problem the company should fix. After all, I am paying for a service, plus additional equipment, so it's not up to me to solve this problem. Well, a fellow boglehead commented that I should not look at it that way and I decided to follow the boglehead's advice and went with a mesh router system. I also purchased my own modem which will pay for itself in 1 year (friend's advice). The wifi is fantastic now. My kids are pleased.

I will leave controversial topics out of this post, but I'm always analyzing and open forming new opinions. [See my posts below --admin LadyGeek]

[LadyGeek]

This thread has run its course and is locked - the intent is not directly actionable. See: Personal Consumer Issues

Note that this subforum has a much lower threshold for locking or removing posts than the financial and investing subforums. In general, controversial, offensive, pointless, divisive or mean-spirited posts or topics may be locked, edited or deleted (with or without notice) at the discretion of the moderating staff even if they do not otherwise violate forum policies.

Update: See below.

[LadyGeek]

Upon member request and further review, this thread is for comparing the financial aspects of consumer issues in the manner described by the OP. Other issues are off-topic. I retitled the thread for clarity.

This thread is reopened to continue the discussion.

[TomatoTomahto]

Pets
We love our pets. We currently have a dog and 3 cats. We have owned guinea pigs, a rabbit, fish, etc. Our daughter is a budding veterinarian. We have paid far too little attention to the cost associated with them. But as they age and require medical interventions, we are now much more aware of the costs associated with them. They also add more tasks, planning for trips, more middle of the night wake up calls, etc. We will probably not buy a lot more in the future.

I don’t intend this to be snarky, and I know some people really like particular breeds, but …
We have been delighted with our experience rescuing dogs. They are still expensive, but are often “healthier” than purchased dogs.

[worthit]

In our never ending pursuit of learning, education, and wisdom, we often change our minds when presented with new data, news, facts, or evidence. I have recently changed my mind on the topics below and why I changed my mind. Feel free to share your own experiences, as the actionable part of this is you could change my mind on other topics or change others minds!

Nitrogen in tires
I always thought this was a gimmick. Filling my tires with pure nitrogen at an additional cost? Ridiculous. Air is already ~78% nitrogen. Well, after having just had tires installed at Costco, where they nitrogen fill the tires and offer free purge and nitrogen refill, I did a little digging and pure nitrogen has some advantages. Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure. Since nitrogen purge and refills are free at Costco, I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

Home wifi
I posted recently about home wifi problems. I purchased "pods" from the cable internet company, and they are terrible. I always looked at it like this is a problem the company should fix. After all, I am paying for a service, plus additional equipment, so it's not up to me to solve this problem. Well, a fellow boglehead commented that I should not look at it that way and I decided to follow the boglehead's advice and went with a mesh router system. I also purchased my own modem which will pay for itself in 1 year (friend's advice). The wifi is fantastic now. My kids are pleased.

I will leave controversial topics out of this post, but I'm always analyzing and open forming new opinions. [See my posts below --admin LadyGeek]

Thanks for starting this thread OP.

With regards to filling nitrogen in tires, I am curious, are there any (long term) downsides to it? I know some like you are converts and I am have ben kicking the tires (pun intended) on this one.

I have been lazy to change my provider's modem. This is now giving me the impetus to do just that. May have to look into it.

[ETK517]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

[jucor]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

Not making expensive "upgrades" doesn't mean that the home needs to deteriorate -- maintenance can and should be done without going over the top on "upgrading."

We also no longer have pets -- at some level we miss them, but far easier to be gone all day or to travel (no kids) for a week or more without cost and stress to pets of being left alone all day or being boarded for weeks at a time.

[TomatoTomahto]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

I think there’s a difference between doing projects and maintaining a home. I’m done with projects, but then again we have totally renovated our home and there’s honestly nothing I can think of that would improve our life.

I sometimes wish we didn’t have pets. For a while I felt landlocked because of our dogs, feral cat, koi. But, we eventually found (expensive) care givers that stay at our home and we can feel comfortable that we haven’t deserted our pets.

[Zennor]

Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure

To take these points 1 by 1:
"Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%'" How does it manage to do this? What's the mechanism? Any published evidence? "can" and "up to" are meaningless weasel words/phrases.

"it's non flammable" Air is also non flammable.

"can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires" How? Oxygen has a lower thermal conductivity than nitrogen, so tires will cool very slightly slower than when filled with nitrogen. https://tsapps.nist.gov/publication/get ... _id=907540 Thermal conductivity is proportional to (I think) the square root of the molecular mass of a gas. Molecular mass of N2 is 28. O2 is 32. Very little difference. To cool tires quickly it would be better to use helium ( Also get some weight savings ) Downsides are it's very expensive and will leak out of the tires much more quickly.

"reduces the loss of tire pressure" How? What's the mechanism? Viscosity of oxygen is higher than nitrogen, so presumably leaks through small holes more slowly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_viscosities

I think nitrogen in tires is pointless. If you can get it for free then it won't hurt anything. I do have a bridge for sale though if you are interested.

[ScubaHogg]

Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%

I was just commenting on how much better tire quality seems to be. When I was younger I had multiple tires just randomly pop or pop because I hit a curb or something.

Now they seem like can take an absolute beating and stay together

[Minty]

I have been lazy to change my provider's modem. This is now giving me the impetus to do just that. May have to look into it.

I buy an upgraded cable modem and router every couple of years. WIth a lot of WiFi users in the house--plus things like WiFi connected EV chargers and leak detectors--it seems worth it.

[runner3081]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

Not making expensive "upgrades" doesn't mean that the home needs to deteriorate -- maintenance can and should be done without going over the top on "upgrading."

We also no longer have pets -- at some level we miss them, but far easier to be gone all day or to travel (no kids) for a week or more without cost and stress to pets of being left alone all day or being boarded for weeks at a time.

Agree, we have been pet free for a few years now. Never again will we have pets.

[lthenderson]

Nitrogen in tires

I don't live near a Costco and have never been to one but I do know taking a vehicle in to get the tires topped on with nitrogen has more expenses associated with it than just using my fully depreciated out air compressor at home. Here, I have to drive across town (gas, depreciation and wear on the vehicle) and then wait in whatever line there exists at the service center for a tech to fill up my tires. The one and only time I did this required a 30 minute wait (cost me time I could have been spending earning money). Then there was the drive back across town costing me more gas, depreciation and wear on the vehicle, not to mention, removing life from the very tires themselves. If I added up all those costs, putting nitrogen in my tires was very expensive.

[FrugalInvestor]

Deleted

[ETK517]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

I think there’s a difference between doing projects and maintaining a home. I’m done with projects, but then again we have totally renovated our home and there’s honestly nothing I can think of that would improve our life.

I sometimes wish we didn’t have pets. For a while I felt landlocked because of our dogs, feral cat, koi. But, we eventually found (expensive) care givers that stay at our home and we can feel comfortable that we haven’t deserted our pets.

Yep, my point is not that OP's change of heart is right or wrong. Just that OP has not experienced the effects of changing their mind yet, which is really the test.

[BFT2003]

My $0.02 on Nitrogen in the tires:

Who here owns an air compressor? What do you have to do with it on occasion? Yup, that's right, you have to drain the water out of it. Air has water vapor in it and when you compress it over and over you squeeze the water out of it and the liquid collects at the bottom. Just for fun, pick up your air compressor and shake it around after you've used it on a summer day and hear the water sloshing.

What do you think happens to your tires when you compress atmospheric air from your garage and use it to fill your tires? Yup, that's right, you're putting water vapor in there and eventually you'll get some condensation, maybe even some ice if you live in a northern climate. Is is bad to have liquid water and oxygen on the inside of your tire sitting on your metal wheel? Probably. I don't have any data, but I'm guessing you can get some rust which can lead to maybe air leaking out on the bead of the tire.

Conclusion: Do I think most of the marketing around Nitrogen is BS? Yup. Do I think that putting any gas that has had all water vapor removed into your tires is worth your while in a northern climate especially if its free, like at Costco, and especially if you can top them off for free at a place you go to once a month anyway? Yes. Probably worth your while.

[bd7]

I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

Actually, you haven't. You've gone from 78% to about 92% nitrogen with less residual moisture--not that that is bad. The claims of 80% fewer tire failures are specious, the rest of the points represent a marginal improvement at best. I don't see a lot of tires catching on fire, that's an aerospace issue. Of course since it is free, there's no downside that I'm aware of so go for it.

As for your other points, I'll agree on not spending big bucks on the house all the time, pets and having good wifi. My cat died and I'm not getting another one anytime soon.

For wifi, I have FIOS fiber 1-gig service, I have my whole house wired with Ethernet and there are three wifi access points. My ping times are very good.

[barnaclebob]

Any tire that catches on fire is already attached to a totaled car. Moot point.

I don't believe the "reduces failure up to 80%". What kind of failure are you talking about? Over what time period? What is the rate of failure for non nitrogen tires? If this stat has any truth to it, its almost certainly reducing the chances of an extremely unlikely event. Kind of like "reduces cancer by 50%" (.2 in 100,000 people to .1 in 100,000 people)

[quantAndHold]

Back when I was still subscribing, Consumer Reports did a thing about nitrogen in tires. Their take was that nitrogen would leak out about 20% slower than regular air, so you could go an extra month or so between refills. But if you refilled with air instead of nitrogen, all of the benefit was lost. Slower leaking was the only real benefit. Pretty much every tire place puts nitrogen in when you buy the tires, but when I refill, I just use air. I’m not going to drive to a tire place just to refill my tires. I’ll just fill more often. Even if nitrogen does reduce tire failure, which I’m dubious about, passenger car tire failure is rare enough that it’s something that isn’t really on my radar.

As far as home renovation, there’s a difference between renovation and maintenance. Maintenance is important. Home renovation is a matter of personal preference. I think people do more renovations than they probably need, but the targeted renovations we’ve done in our house have made it a nicer, more comfortable place to live, and were absolutely worth the money.

Pets are an expense, not an investment. We will always have pets, but we’ve never been deluded about the fact that they’re expensive.

If the ISP provided WiFi works well throughout the house, there’s no benefit to spending money on better WiFi. If it doesn’t, then there is. But you’re correct, it isn’t the provider’s problem.

[warner25]

Tires are one thing that I've recently changed my mind about. I've always replaced them with whatever was already on the car or cheaper, but when our family minivan needed new tires earlier this year I decided to do a modicum of reading about tires. We're moving to a place next year that gets snow, so I decided to get the CrossCimate2, and I'm convinced that they'll make a significant difference. I might even put real seasonal snow tires on my other car that otherwise has the cheapest tires I could get.

Do I think most of the marketing around Nitrogen is BS? Yup. Do I think that putting any gas that has had all water vapor removed into your tires is worth your while in a northern climate especially if its free, like at Costco, and especially if you can top them off for free at a place you go to once a month anyway? Yes. Probably worth your while.

I agree with you. I used to manage military aviation maintenance, and I'm pretty sure that we exclusively filled the aircraft tires with nitrogen, so there's something to it for extreme conditions... but I still wouldn't pay extra for it on my car. My family did get a Costco membership a couple years ago for the first time, and last year I discovered the complimentary nitrogen pumps next to the tire center. I thought "great!" and I've been using them, but mostly because their pumps actually work, unlike half the air pumps at gas stations.

[tev9876]

Nitrogen in tires is just a marketing gimmick built around the need for compressed air. Any decent shop that needs compressed air will have to have a water separator on the compressor to get ride of the moisture, if nothing else just to protect their air tools from corrosion. A nitrogen separator does the same basic thing as a air compressor with water separator and doesn't cost significantly more.

Aircraft tires are a different matter. Your car doesn't go from -40 degrees and 2.7 PSI atmospheric pressure at 40,000 feet to slamming into 130 degree concrete at 14 atmospheric PSI while holding up a million pounds of aircraft when it touches down in Phoenix.

[Svensk Anga]

I think the nitrogen in tires thing was born in a brain-storming session at a company that operates air separation plants. They had plenty of customers for their oxygen and argon but too much nitrogen (actually oxygen-depleted air as pointed out up-thread). How to make a buck on N2 then, rather than throw it away? Create a market for it and sell to tire shops.

[yankees60]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

Not making expensive "upgrades" doesn't mean that the home needs to deteriorate -- maintenance can and should be done without going over the top on "upgrading."

We also no longer have pets -- at some level we miss them, but far easier to be gone all day or to travel (no kids) for a week or more without cost and stress to pets of being left alone all day or being boarded for weeks at a time.

Cannot argue with anything you write. But you miss out on having a cat sleeping with its head on my left arm as I type this.

After I was down to one cat and he died ... I was frantic for several days as it was about the first time in 50 years I was not living with at least one cat. Within a week I replenished with two kittens (one of them now on my arm) and a two-year-old cat.

Whenever I go into someone's home who has no pets it seems like there is a certain amount of life missing in their home.

I easily live without other people in my home but never without cats.

[yankees60]

In our never ending pursuit of learning, education, and wisdom, we often change our minds when presented with new data, news, facts, or evidence. I have recently changed my mind on the topics below and why I changed my mind. Feel free to share your own experiences, as the actionable part of this is you could change my mind on other topics or change others minds!

Nitrogen in tires
I always thought this was a gimmick. Filling my tires with pure nitrogen at an additional cost? Ridiculous. Air is already ~78% nitrogen. Well, after having just had tires installed at Costco, where they nitrogen fill the tires and offer free purge and nitrogen refill, I did a little digging and pure nitrogen has some advantages. Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure. Since nitrogen purge and refills are free at Costco, I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

Home wifi
I posted recently about home wifi problems. I purchased "pods" from the cable internet company, and they are terrible. I always looked at it like this is a problem the company should fix. After all, I am paying for a service, plus additional equipment, so it's not up to me to solve this problem. Well, a fellow boglehead commented that I should not look at it that way and I decided to follow the boglehead's advice and went with a mesh router system. I also purchased my own modem which will pay for itself in 1 year (friend's advice). The wifi is fantastic now. My kids are pleased.

I will leave controversial topics out of this post, but I'm always analyzing and open forming new opinions. [See my posts below --admin LadyGeek]

Thanks for starting this thread OP.

With regards to filling nitrogen in tires, I am curious, are there any (long term) downsides to it? I know some like you are converts and I am have ben kicking the tires (pun intended) on this one.

I have been lazy to change my provider's modem. This is now giving me the impetus to do just that. May have to look into it.

As soon as I switched from DSL to cable internet I bought my own modem and router (2 separate items). But for about four years I was afraid to implement and return the one I was renting.

Finally, earlier this year I made the switch, buying a new modem but using the same router I'd earlier used.

Highly worth it and have had zero issues with the setup.

[yankees60]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

I bought the cheapest house around. Described myself as "The neglectful homeowner" as I both did not do all the maintenance things that all my neighbors around me seemed to constantly be doing. Nor did I do much upgrading or major repairs. Two years ago I invested significant amounts (for me) in upgrading various aspects of the outside of my house plus three mini-splits (each with their own outdoor units).

Money well spent and there were no issues caused by me not doing much to the house (aside from having vinyl siding, new windows, new roof) during my first 40 years of owning it.

[yankees60]

In our never ending pursuit of learning, education, and wisdom, we often change our minds when presented with new data, news, facts, or evidence. I have recently changed my mind on the topics below and why I changed my mind. Feel free to share your own experiences, as the actionable part of this is you could change my mind on other topics or change others minds!

Nitrogen in tires
I always thought this was a gimmick. Filling my tires with pure nitrogen at an additional cost? Ridiculous. Air is already ~78% nitrogen. Well, after having just had tires installed at Costco, where they nitrogen fill the tires and offer free purge and nitrogen refill, I did a little digging and pure nitrogen has some advantages. Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure. Since nitrogen purge and refills are free at Costco, I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

Home wifi
I posted recently about home wifi problems. I purchased "pods" from the cable internet company, and they are terrible. I always looked at it like this is a problem the company should fix. After all, I am paying for a service, plus additional equipment, so it's not up to me to solve this problem. Well, a fellow boglehead commented that I should not look at it that way and I decided to follow the boglehead's advice and went with a mesh router system. I also purchased my own modem which will pay for itself in 1 year (friend's advice). The wifi is fantastic now. My kids are pleased.

I will leave controversial topics out of this post, but I'm always analyzing and open forming new opinions. [See my posts below --admin LadyGeek]

Thanks for starting this thread OP.

With regards to filling nitrogen in tires, I am curious, are there any (long term) downsides to it? I know some like you are converts and I am have ben kicking the tires (pun intended) on this one.

I have been lazy to change my provider's modem. This is now giving me the impetus to do just that. May have to look into it.

I have a 2004 Honda Accord. Can a car that old have nitrogen filled tires? Or, is it something only for more modern vehicles?

[yankees60]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

I think there’s a difference between doing projects and maintaining a home. I’m done with projects, but then again we have totally renovated our home and there’s honestly nothing I can think of that would improve our life.

I sometimes wish we didn’t have pets. For a while I felt landlocked because of our dogs, feral cat, koi. But, we eventually found (expensive) care givers that stay at our home and we can feel comfortable that we haven’t deserted our pets.

That is the downside costs. I've not not slept in my own bed since December 2013. I tell people that each morning 6 pets want to be fed (3 cats, 3 gerbils) and in the case of the cats .. each of them gets quite upset if at any moment of the day I allow their food dish to empty. Each of them will claw at my face while sleeping to let me know I've fallen down on the job. To prevent that I make sure I've put in a full can in their dish prior to me getting in bed.

[yankees60]

I have been lazy to change my provider's modem. This is now giving me the impetus to do just that. May have to look into it.

I buy an upgraded cable modem and router every couple of years. WIth a lot of WiFi users in the house--plus things like WiFi connected EV chargers and leak detectors--it seems worth it.

How much do you pay for each item?

I could have bought a sufficient modem for $100 but I had to pay $300 to also have phone capability with it. However, I've not been able to get the phone work with it. But it's been such a low priority that I've not even tried any other phones to see if they work and it's the phone I've tried and not a modem issue.

I am using the same modem that I bought in 2018 (I think) and it seems to still work well.

[yankees60]

Nitrogen in tires

I don't live near a Costco and have never been to one but I do know taking a vehicle in to get the tires topped on with nitrogen has more expenses associated with it than just using my fully depreciated out air compressor at home. Here, I have to drive across town (gas, depreciation and wear on the vehicle) and then wait in whatever line there exists at the service center for a tech to fill up my tires. The one and only time I did this required a 30 minute wait (cost me time I could have been spending earning money). Then there was the drive back across town costing me more gas, depreciation and wear on the vehicle, not to mention, removing life from the very tires themselves. If I added up all those costs, putting nitrogen in my tires was very expensive.

I'm gathering that you have a highly correlated form of thinking to me regarding time.

I oftentimes go to hear live music and I've finally developed an objective formula to represent what I was informally doing in my mind to decide whether it was of sufficient value to me to leave my house to go.

The formula?

Numerator:

Quality of the music performance X number of hours experiencing it (e.g, 9 X 10 = 90)

Denominator:

Car costs to get there and back + ticket / parking costs + hours to get to and from X $30 / hour (e.g., $15 + $55 + $30 = $100).


I need to end up with a high ratio.

0.90 in above example would be a high ratio.




Going to see music that is only going to last 1.5 hours that is free is not worth it because I have to add in the travel costs associated with 80 miles round trip and 2 hours of travel time. Poor ratio.

The rough ratio for this would be 15 / 120 = 0.13. Poor, poor ratio.

Was a much better ratio when the same thing used to be 3.5 to 4.0 hours each time. !.5 hours only? Staying home.

[Doctor Rhythm]

Nitrogen in tires
I did a little digging and pure nitrogen has some advantages. Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure. Since nitrogen purge and refills are free at Costco, I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

80% is a huge risk reduction, but this sounds like the kind of claim that originates from "because someone I trust said so." Can you cite a published source for this? It seems like a very easy to study question using a blinded, randomized trial. If there isn't one, I'd be very skeptical of any claims.

Also, what does "tire failure" even mean? I drove over a nail and got a leak, and I once hit the curb and blew out my sidewall. Are these example of tire failure that that N2 can mitigate?

[RickBoglehead]

Nitrogen in tires
I did a little digging and pure nitrogen has some advantages. Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure. Since nitrogen purge and refills are free at Costco, I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

Can you cite the source for this? It seems like a very easy-to-verify claim using a blinded, randomized trial. If there isn't one, I'd be very skeptical of any claims.

Source that says that most of that is MALARKY. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ti ... 260003694/

[lws]

Home renovation

Bought this place in 1989.
Never done even one upgrade.
All critical systems are kept in ship shape.
Place is as clean as a whistle.
Still having a ball living here.

[yankees60]

My $0.02 on Nitrogen in the tires:

Who here owns an air compressor? What do you have to do with it on occasion? Yup, that's right, you have to drain the water out of it. Air has water vapor in it and when you compress it over and over you squeeze the water out of it and the liquid collects at the bottom. Just for fun, pick up your air compressor and shake it around after you've used it on a summer day and hear the water sloshing.

What do you think happens to your tires when you compress atmospheric air from your garage and use it to fill your tires? Yup, that's right, you're putting water vapor in there and eventually you'll get some condensation, maybe even some ice if you live in a northern climate. Is is bad to have liquid water and oxygen on the inside of your tire sitting on your metal wheel? Probably. I don't have any data, but I'm guessing you can get some rust which can lead to maybe air leaking out on the bead of the tire.

Conclusion: Do I think most of the marketing around Nitrogen is BS? Yup. Do I think that putting any gas that has had all water vapor removed into your tires is worth your while in a northern climate especially if its free, like at Costco, and especially if you can top them off for free at a place you go to once a month anyway? Yes. Probably worth your while.

Does what you say apply to this also (which I bought strictly from reading its recommendation by someone here in the forum)?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTGM2LD/?r ... _item&th=1

AVID POWER Tire Inflator Portable Air Compressor, 20V Cordless Car Tire Pump, Rechargeable Battery Powered Air Compressor w/12V DC Adapter, Digital Pressure Gauge

I have only used it once but I was amazed at how easily and quickly and effectively it worked.

I'm way overdue to use it again but doing these types of things is not my forte.

[yankees60]

I am converted to pure nitrogen in my tires.

Actually, you haven't. You've gone from 78% to about 92% nitrogen with less residual moisture--not that that is bad. The claims of 80% fewer tire failures are specious, the rest of the points represent a marginal improvement at best. I don't see a lot of tires catching on fire, that's an aerospace issue. Of course since it is free, there's no downside that I'm aware of so go for it.

As for your other points, I'll agree on not spending big bucks on the house all the time, pets and having good wifi. My cat died and I'm not getting another one anytime soon.

For wifi, I have FIOS fiber 1-gig service, I have my whole house wired with Ethernet and there are three wifi access points. My ping times are very good.

How would I check my ping times so I can report back and you can tell me what is their quality for my Wi-Fi set up?

[yankees60]

Any tire that catches on fire is already attached to a totaled car. Moot point.

I don't believe the "reduces failure up to 80%". What kind of failure are you talking about? Over what time period? What is the rate of failure for non nitrogen tires? If this stat has any truth to it, its almost certainly reducing the chances of an extremely unlikely event. Kind of like "reduces cancer by 50%" (.2 in 100,000 people to .1 in 100,000 people)

I've not had AAA since sometime in the late 80s. No other form of roadside assistance either.

I was just thinking the other day how during all those years I don't think I've had a need for any roadside service for tires.

[yankees60]

Pets are an expense, not an investment. We will always have pets, but we’ve never been deluded about the fact that they’re expensive.

Don't I know it.

The aforementioned cat is back with her head on my left arm as I type this.

But even though she is only six years old ... she has been by far the most expensive pet I have even owned. Most of my cats require the big $$$$ in the last week or so of their lives but none of those compare to her already having had two extensive teeth cleanings / teeth extractions. $2,850 in total. So far. She's only got half her teeth left so I guess there will at some point be some limit to how much she will cost in the future. So far no costs in this area for her sister.

But the potential costs for a cat is one of the reasons why I've set a hard limit of owning only three.

[FeralCat]

I just use my Lezyne bike pump to put air in my car tires - it takes roughly 10-15 minutes. And I get a bit of an arm workout. If a tire is acting funny, I can also put the bike pump in my car so that I don't get stranded somewhere. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best. And also not having to leave home in order to accomplish something means I can get more things done in a day.

[neilpilot]

My $0.02 on Nitrogen in the tires:

Who here owns an air compressor? What do you have to do with it on occasion? Yup, that's right, you have to drain the water out of it. Air has water vapor in it and when you compress it over and over you squeeze the water out of it and the liquid collects at the bottom. Just for fun, pick up your air compressor and shake it around after you've used it on a summer day and hear the water sloshing.

What do you think happens to your tires when you compress atmospheric air from your garage and use it to fill your tires? Yup, that's right, you're putting water vapor in there and eventually you'll get some condensation, maybe even some ice if you live in a northern climate. Is is bad to have liquid water and oxygen on the inside of your tire sitting on your metal wheel? Probably. I don't have any data, but I'm guessing you can get some rust which can lead to maybe air leaking out on the bead of the tire.

Conclusion: Do I think most of the marketing around Nitrogen is BS? Yup. Do I think that putting any gas that has had all water vapor removed into your tires is worth your while in a northern climate especially if its free, like at Costco, and especially if you can top them off for free at a place you go to once a month anyway? Yes. Probably worth your while.

Does what you say apply to this also (which I bought strictly from reading its recommendation by someone here in the forum)?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTGM2LD/?r ... _item&th=1

AVID POWER Tire Inflator Portable Air Compressor, 20V Cordless Car Tire Pump, Rechargeable Battery Powered Air Compressor w/12V DC Adapter, Digital Pressure Gauge

I have only used it once but I was amazed at how easily and quickly and effectively it worked.

I'm way overdue to use it again but doing these types of things is not my forte.

The AVID POWER inflator uses the same atmospheric air as my pancake air compressor. The difference is, the AVID compressor transfers ALL of the water in the air to your car's tire. The pancake compressor, OTOH, moves the compressed air into it's tank on the way to the tire, and the liquid water that results from compression has a chance to separate out in the compressor's tank. So it's very possible that the AVID (or other small tire inflator) will transfer more of the water into your tire than the larger pancake compressor.

[bd7]

How would I check my ping times so I can report back and you can tell me what is their quality for my Wi-Fi set up?

speedtest.net will give you one ping plus the down/up speeds.

Or, open a command prompt or powershell window and type in: ping google.com -n 100

Consistent single-digit ping times with no lost packets are good.

[YeahBuddy]

Pets
We love our pets. We currently have a dog and 3 cats. We have owned guinea pigs, a rabbit, fish, etc. Our daughter is a budding veterinarian. We have paid far too little attention to the cost associated with them. But as they age and require medical interventions, we are now much more aware of the costs associated with them. They also add more tasks, planning for trips, more middle of the night wake up calls, etc. We will probably not buy a lot more in the future.

I don’t intend this to be snarky, and I know some people really like particular breeds, but …
We have been delighted with our experience rescuing dogs. They are still expensive, but are often “healthier” than purchased dogs.

I wasn't aware of this healthier aspect. Do you mean purchasing designer dogs vs buying them from shelters? That's a big difference in purchase price. We have historically gone to the local shelters to buy our dogs for maybe $500? A friend purchases their designer dogs for about $2,000. And I agree with your sentiment it has been mostly a very delightful experience. Maybe I'm being a bit cranky because of these recent high costs. (our oldest cat is a literal rescue from a litter born outdoors, other 2 cats purchased from shelters)

[YeahBuddy]

I'll be curious to hear if you change your mind again after spending some time in a deteriorating, pet-free home...

HAHA!! This gave me a good laugh. Thank you!!

And I'll probably change my mind soon, per usual. Actually just evaluated my broken fence and wondering if I should try patching it vs whole new white vinyl fence.

[JoeNJ28]

I don’t intend this to be snarky, and I know some people really like particular breeds, but …
We have been delighted with our experience rescuing dogs. They are still expensive, but are often “healthier” than purchased dogs.

I wasn't aware of this healthier aspect. Do you mean purchasing designer dogs vs buying them from shelters? That's a big difference in purchase price. We have historically gone to the local shelters to buy our dogs for maybe $500? A friend purchases their designer dogs for about $2,000. And I agree with your sentiment it has been mostly a very delightful experience. Maybe I'm being a bit cranky because of these recent high costs. (our oldest cat is a literal rescue from a litter born outdoors, other 2 cats purchased from shelters)

Plus designer breeds usually are a single breed so they get all the drawbacks of the breed. Compared to a mixed breed where genetics does its thing and lessens the negative impact of bad genes.

[yankees60]

How would I check my ping times so I can report back and you can tell me what is their quality for my Wi-Fi set up?

speedtest.net will give you one ping plus the down/up speeds.

Or, open a command prompt or powershell window and type in: ping google.com -n 100

Consistent single-digit ping times with no lost packets are good.

Ran the test.

Ping was 15

17 - Down, 67 - Up

But more concerning was that my Download was only 325 when I think I'm paying for 1,000. I will have to check.

Second time I got 365 with similar range of Ping numbers.

[YeahBuddy]

Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%, it's non flammable, can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires, and reduces the loss of tire pressure

To take these points 1 by 1:
"Nitrogen can reduce tire failure up to 80%'" How does it manage to do this? What's the mechanism? Any published evidence? "can" and "up to" are meaningless weasel words/phrases.

"it's non flammable" Air is also non flammable.

"can reduce the risk of excessive heat build up in tires" How? Oxygen has a lower thermal conductivity than nitrogen, so tires will cool very slightly slower than when filled with nitrogen. https://tsapps.nist.gov/publication/get ... _id=907540 Thermal conductivity is proportional to (I think) the square root of the molecular mass of a gas. Molecular mass of N2 is 28. O2 is 32. Very little difference. To cool tires quickly it would be better to use helium ( Also get some weight savings ) Downsides are it's very expensive and will leak out of the tires much more quickly.

"reduces the loss of tire pressure" How? What's the mechanism? Viscosity of oxygen is higher than nitrogen, so presumably leaks through small holes more slowly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_viscosities

I think nitrogen in tires is pointless. If you can get it for free then it won't hurt anything. I do have a bridge for sale though if you are interested.

I like the challenge! While I haven't studied this in depth, I do know nitrogen is an inert gas, which means it is non-reactive in its environment. This may be more theoretical it won’t react with the inside of a tire's constructive components, whether rubber, steel or otherwise. Theoretically, this should help preserve the life of the tire itself. Will need to research this further.

Air is generally considered non-flammable, but it can support combustion. See the thousands of supplemental oxygen consumers that decide to smoke a cigarette and catch on fire each year.

Nitrogen in tires reduces the risk of excessive heat build-up because it is a "dry" gas, meaning it doesn't contain moisture, which can expand and contract rapidly with temperature changes, causing pressure fluctuations within the tire; as a result, nitrogen-filled tires maintain a more consistent pressure even when exposed to extreme temperatures, preventing excessive heat generation.

Nitrogen in tires reduces pressure loss because nitrogen molecules are larger than the molecules in regular air, making it harder for them to escape through the tiny pores in the tire, resulting in a slower leak rate and more stable tire pressure over time; essentially, the larger nitrogen molecules are less likely to permeate the tire's rubber than the smaller molecules in regular air.

[YeahBuddy]

Not making expensive "upgrades" doesn't mean that the home needs to deteriorate -- maintenance can and should be done without going over the top on "upgrading."

We also no longer have pets -- at some level we miss them, but far easier to be gone all day or to travel (no kids) for a week or more without cost and stress to pets of being left alone all day or being boarded for weeks at a time.

Agree, we have been pet free for a few years now. Never again will we have pets.

Do you miss them at all? The cats for companionship, dog for security? Just wondering.

[runner3081]

Agree, we have been pet free for a few years now. Never again will we have pets.

Do you miss them at all? The cats for companionship, dog for security? Just wondering.

They were cats. Sure, we miss them sometimes, but the litter dust around the house, the fur, throw up, etc., let's just say we miss the idea of them - don't miss them a bit.

We have two, one was old and we put her down, the other one, after that happened, we actually surrendered to a different owner. Wanted to be done.

[YeahBuddy]

I think there’s a difference between doing projects and maintaining a home. I’m done with projects, but then again we have totally renovated our home and there’s honestly nothing I can think of that would improve our life.

I sometimes wish we didn’t have pets. For a while I felt landlocked because of our dogs, feral cat, koi. But, we eventually found (expensive) care givers that stay at our home and we can feel comfortable that we haven’t deserted our pets.

Yep, my point is not that OP's change of heart is right or wrong. Just that OP has not experienced the effects of changing their mind yet, which is really the test.

Good point. Thinking back to times I've changed my mind in the past and I may have changed back again. The beauty of life, perhaps?

[black jack]

I just use my Lezyne bike pump to put air in my car tires - it takes roughly 10-15 minutes. And I get a bit of an arm workout. If a tire is acting funny, I can also put the bike pump in my car so that I don't get stranded somewhere. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best. And also not having to leave home in order to accomplish something means I can get more things done in a day.

I also use my bike pump to top up the air in my car tires.

But reading the comments about water condensing from compressed air made me wonder if I'm thereby putting water inside my car tires (especially during humid summers), or at least enough water to create a corrosion issue. I recall that when replacing the tires on my 19-year-old car (with original rims), the mechanic said there was enough corrosion on the inner rim of some of the wheels that he had trouble getting a good air seal with the new tires.

But maybe that corrosion was from many years of rain and road salt, and the water from the compressing of the air stays in the barrel of my bike pump and evaporates between uses?

[Marylander1]

Pets
We love our pets...We will probably not buy a lot more in the future.

This terminology strikes me as a very different culture from ours. We've had numerous pets (two are with us now), but we've always "adopted" pets, never "bought" them, and certainly never would "buy a lot" of pets. Perhaps just terminology, but very different.

[yankees60]

Pets
We love our pets...We will probably not buy a lot more in the future.

This terminology strikes me as a very different culture from ours. We've had numerous pets (two are with us now), but we've always "adopted" pets, never "bought" them, and certainly never would "buy a lot" of pets. Perhaps just terminology, but very different.

I "bought" my three cats at the local animal shelter in 2018. The two kittens I think were $500 but that included being spayed there and coupons to cover a lot of the cost of the 1st veterinarian's visit. The 2-year-old was "on sale" for $129 which also included the same benefits as the kittens.