Honda dealers

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bobbyrx
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Honda dealers

Post by bobbyrx » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:03 pm

I have purchased about a dozen Hondas from the same dealership since 1982 and have been generally satisfied with sales and service. I bought a new 2008 Civic in July of 2008 after the dealership had been acquired by Penske Automotive. After stating that I would be paying in cash, the finance person began a screed about how I really should be taking a loan and didn't back off until I asked to see the general manager. I dismissed this as an anomaly. But now, when I go in for routine service such as oil change, they have a list of recommendations, e.g. to change the transmission fluid at 15,000 miles. When he told me that "they" recommended it, I told him this was not in Honda manual and was probably "recommended" by the Penske CFO.
Has anyone encountered this ratcheting-up and bundling of services? Are all dealerships this aggressive these days.
I am not going back there.
Thanks

Puakinekine
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Post by Puakinekine » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:38 pm

Our dealership, whom we (and most people in town) are very pleased with, does this a bit as well, but not in an extreme sort of way. They shave of a month or two, or 5000 miles or so, from what the manual advises. Every time we go in for maintenance, we tell them that we prefer to go by what the manual says, and they don't protest.

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mephistophles
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Post by mephistophles » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:43 pm

I have been driving Hondas for many years because of their mechanical reliability, resale value and overall quality as an automobile.

I have absolutely no problem dealing with the salesperson and go back to him each time I go in. That being said, the business managers who write up the sale always use high pressure tactics to sell other services, including undercoating, paint protectant, extended warranty, etc. They do this despite the fact that I tell them up-front that I am not interested in any of that.

So, I have decided that next time I am in the market for a new Honda I will ask my salesman, up-front, to guarantee me that I will not have to go through this sales process. If they will not do this, I will buy elsewhere, including another type of vehicle.

Also, do not under any circumstances have your car serviced under the dealership's recommended service programs. They cost a fortune and are mostly fluff. Instead, request a price, in advance, for exactly the service recommended in the owners manual. I insist on this and pay a fraction of what I used to. Also, a 28 point inspection comes for free.

good luck,
ole meph

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bearwolf
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Re: Honda dealers

Post by bearwolf » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:49 pm

bobbyrx wrote:Has anyone encountered this ratcheting-up and bundling of services? Are all dealerships this aggressive these days.
I am not going back there.
Thanks

I've had the same pitch from my Acura and Honda dealer. Both with the same owner. They have a list of "dealer recommended" services for different mileages. All of them are for things that the manual does not recommend and at more frequent intervals than necessary. I asked why they wanted to perform the specific services and they said something along the line of it's better to be safe than sorry. When I first took my Acura in for its first "oil Change" i said I wanted the 5000 mile service. They changed the differential fluid, and several filters and fluids. The charge was $350. I didn't find that out until after I went to pick the vehicle up. I was really upset and spoke with the service manager. He didn't offer to refund the price because the service was already performed, but he did give me certificates for 2 free oil changes. Now when I take my vehicles in I just request whatever the maintenance minder tells me is due, and at the interval the manual recommends.

BearWolf

mur44
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We Own Honda Vehicles Here in New Jersey

Post by mur44 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:02 pm

I use internet to buy Honda cars; the transaction is
completed using internet and telephone. This approach
eliminates the need to meet salesperson prior to sale.

Also, I found an independent garage to do maintenance.
This could save dollars as well. I recommend finding
independent repair place to get your maintenance done.

Just like others, we are pleased with Honda vehicles.

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bobbyrx
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Post by bobbyrx » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:43 pm

I also used the internet last time to get the price of new car but I had a trade-in and had to meet with salesperson. And trade-ins are an even uglier part of the purchase process.
Bob

tomd37
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Post by tomd37 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:49 pm

The "dealer recommended services" are what makes money for a dealership. The don't make as much money on a sale of a vehicle as they do on the servicing of a vehicle.

Stick only to the service schedule outlined in your owners manual. And by all means if all you need or want at a 5,000 mile interval is the oil and filter changed, tell them that what you only want is an oil and filter change. Don't say you want the 5,000 service. I have found out that they (Lexus in my case) will do a courtesy check of other items at no additional charge.

I admit I have been stuck by changing things routinely at 15,000 miles (e.g., transmission and differential oil), but that stopped after the 30,000 mile check after I "wised up". A personal friend in the transmission business confirmed my thinking. Stick with the two or three year changing of the brake fluid as it can absorb water. I think most manufacturer's books recommend that interval.
Tom D.

bmb
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Post by bmb » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:14 pm

All dealers are pretty dishonest - that's how they stay in business. Remember, it's the same guys who tried to sell you the car at list price.
Your owner's manual is going to be conservative, if only to protect against warranteed damage, so why do more than called for?
Some of the maintenance added by the dealer can actually be detrimental, such as unneeded transmission flushes. Others might help a bit, or more likely just waste money. Inspections can't hurt, but should be free and verified.

magicmom
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Honda Lover

Post by magicmom » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:45 pm

1992 Honda Civic Dx 218,897 miles and going strong!

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greg24
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Post by greg24 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:50 pm

Our local Honda dealer attempts to do more than the book says, and claims our Accord needs all these large fixes. This was about 5 years ago, and now I'm driving our 1997 Accord into the ground with 173k miles and basically oil changes. Somehow it still runs smooth despite not doing the large fixes.

Our local Toyota dealer is much more honest. We bought a 2004 Sienna there, they don't try to oversell the scheduled maintence, and they don't seem to concoct bogus maintenance.

This is a small data set, but I know where I'll be buying my Accord replacement. If it ever dies.

atomiclightbulb
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Re: Honda Lover

Post by atomiclightbulb » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:06 pm

magicmom wrote:1992 Honda Civic Dx 218,897 miles and going strong!


:shock:

greg24 wrote:Our local Honda dealer attempts to do more than the book says, and claims our Accord needs all these large fixes. This was about 5 years ago, and now I'm driving our 1997 Accord into the ground with 173k miles and basically oil changes. Somehow it still runs smooth despite not doing the large fixes.


My Honda dealer hasn't recommended any large fixes, but they are quite insistent in proposing 3000 mile oil changes, even though the manual says 7500 miles. Every time I take the car in for service, it seems like they want to change every type of fluid in the car :?

At 180k miles and 15 years on the road, the car has done just fine following the standard maintenance schedule from the owner's manual.

My theory is that the sales group pushes the maintenance people to make more and more repair suggestions for older models in order to "encourage" customers to buy a shiny new Honda. The cars just run for too long :wink:

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norookie
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Re: Honda Lover

Post by norookie » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:20 pm

:D
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gunn_show
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Post by gunn_show » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:37 pm

obviously folks, we are in a recession/economic slowdown = less cars being bought = need to make money somewhere = pushing more service items = dishonesty

just how it is ... man invented the word NO for a reason ... 8)
"I love competition. And I want to win." R. Murdoch

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ryuns
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Post by ryuns » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:47 pm

Here's your answer:

http://www.cartalk.com/content/features ... ults1.html
(it's even Honda specific!)
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton

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scubadiver
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Post by scubadiver » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:00 pm

Also, do not under any circumstances have your car serviced under the dealership's recommended service programs. They cost a fortune and are mostly fluff. Instead, request a price, in advance, for exactly the service recommended in the owners manual. I insist on this and pay a fraction of what I used to. Also, a 28 point inspection comes for free.


My local Nissan dealer wanted $400 for a 30K service. ':shock:'

I told them that's what I pay to fix something that's already broken, not to maintain something that might break in the future.

exoilman
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Post by exoilman » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:29 pm

We are on our second civic and never did anything but oil changes on former(70K) Plan to do the same for new one(2007). Also my 2003 Acura(70K) nothing but oil changes. I am currently looking for Acura replacement, ready for new car.

Sam

Polaris
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Post by Polaris » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:17 am

tommy_gunn wrote:obviously folks, we are in a recession/economic slowdown = less cars being bought = need to make money somewhere = pushing more service items = dishonesty


I've found car dealers to behave in a shady manner no matter what the economic conditions du jour happened to be. :)

Dagwood
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Post by Dagwood » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:37 am

Lots of good advice here -- stick with the owner's manual.

If a dealer gets very pushy with the upselling, I'll say something such as, "it's funny that you feel so stridently that Honda's service recommendations are inadequate. I'll have to make sure that American Honda knows that the dealership feels this way." That'll shut them up quickly.

In the DC metro area, the one thing I noticed all the Honda dealers doing is servicing the cars according to the "Severe" schedule in the manual. This annoyed me and I thought it was BS until I called Honda and they said that yes, in fact Honda does recommend the "Severe" schedule in most big metro areas due to the incidence of stop and go traffic, a lot of idling, etc.

The other thing is that from time to time, manufacturers will get very aggressive with lengthening service requirements. For example, a number of years ago, a number of European manufacturers went to automatic transmissions with "lifetime fill." The joke became that "lifetime" referred to the term of the warranty, and many of these transmissions had problems out of warranty. In a case like that, if your dealer is otherwise honest and not a shyster, and they tell you something like that, it could be worthwhile to have the additional service done. Then again, perhaps the best and easiest route is to steer clear of manufacturers when they have such issues -- that will teach them a lesson faster than anything else.

polaar
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Post by polaar » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:31 am

I paid cash for a 2009 Honda below invoice no hassle or questions asked from them. I told the dealer that he was free to e-mail me but not to call my home, ever, with promos or maintenance reminders and if he ever did then I would service my car elsewhere. To be sure of this they stripped my number from their computer records. They have never called. I do get e-mails offering maintenance ahead of manual recommendations, and I ignore them. When I do get maintenance on either of our cars I make sure to get a price up front. The car's a beauty; their attempts are understandable, given the economy, but it's easy to say "no thanks!"


magicmom
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Post by magicmom » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:57 pm

I paid $2800.00 for my 1992 Honda with over 218K miles on it. Now that's being frugal. Still going strong 10 years later.

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grabiner
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Post by grabiner » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:25 pm

raymondalombardo wrote:In the DC metro area, the one thing I noticed all the Honda dealers doing is servicing the cars according to the "Severe" schedule in the manual. This annoyed me and I thought it was BS until I called Honda and they said that yes, in fact Honda does recommend the "Severe" schedule in most big metro areas due to the incidence of stop and go traffic, a lot of idling, etc.


Newer Hondas (and many other cars) handle that automatically. My 2007 Civic has a maintenance minder which keeps track of how the car is driven and determines when it is due for an oil change. And the car even encourages you to wait; it won't display the other recommended services until the oil life gets down to 15%. Since I drive mostly on the freeway, the car tells me that the oil lasts about 8500 miles; I get my services done every 7500. Many other people in the DC suburbs drive on DC city streets every day and will need more frequent service.

The maintenance minder also ensures that the dealer doesn't recommend a service in 3000 miles. When I got my car serviced at the dealer, the sticker on the windshield said, "Schedule next oil change at 15% oil life".
At most other mechanics (including several dealers before maintenance minders, and independents), when I got a car serviced at 24,796 miles, I got a sticker which says that the next service is due at 27,796.
David Grabiner

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Dog_Papa
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Honda dealers and other auto dealers

Post by Dog_Papa » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:50 pm

Honda, Toyota & Nissan have done a good job, making cars & light trucks
for the America consumer. However, their dealers are still auto dealers
and no better than any other auto dealer. I call them dealer-chiselers,
no matter what brand they sell. They look to get all the money from you
they can. I have found it better to take my vehicle to an independent
place and just do what's needed according to the owner's manual.

Some of the other problems with auto dealers are:

They seem very disorganized, but that's to cover for mistakes. Mistakes
that are always to the dealers favor.

Very high turnover of salespeople & other employees.

Their sales people will say anything, to get you in the door. In other words they have no credablity at all.

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stratton
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Post by stratton » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:56 pm

Interesting. My Subaru dealer has quit the "new" only mantra on parts and now uses rebuilds for things like alternators. ~$95 vs. a new one at ~$300 right now probably wasn't helping them keep business.

Paul

TT
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Suggestion

Post by TT » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:17 pm

Follow exactly what the manufacturer recommends. Car dealers are very creative with finding ways to increase the Service Dept. revenues. Bought a new '06 civic in Sept. of '05 drove it 148,000 miles when I traded in April of '09. Changed oil every 3750 miles, tune up at 105,000- spark plugs, filters, manual transmission oil change. Never had a problem. Bought new '08 accord Coupe and will do same- I Hope. Obviously I drive a lot for work under a reimbursement program but point is do not listen to a dealer for any service recommendations and then get a second opinion.Still having Fun.

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norookie
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Post by norookie » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:00 pm

:D
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communipaw
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Post by communipaw » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:10 pm

I had a Civic from 1993 to 2003 and was very happy with the service; I then bought an Accord in 2003 from the same dealership. A few months after I bought the Accord the dealership changed hands.

Then they started recommending services more than Honda recommends. I've ignored them but it gets annoying and has caused me to lose confidence in the dealership.

atomiclightbulb
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Post by atomiclightbulb » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:30 pm

I get a lot of calls and voice messages from my Honda dealer saying that I am due for service, haha! I just ignore them and go with the manual.

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Adrian Nenu
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Post by Adrian Nenu » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:50 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/ap_ ... car_swiped

This Honda was so good that the potential buyer did not want to end the test drive!

Adrian
anenu@tampabay.rr.com

Dagwood
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Post by Dagwood » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:27 am

grabiner wrote:Newer Hondas (and many other cars) handle that automatically. My 2007 Civic has a maintenance minder which keeps track of how the car is driven and determines when it is due for an oil change. And the car even encourages you to wait; it won't display the other recommended services until the oil life gets down to 15%. Since I drive mostly on the freeway, the car tells me that the oil lasts about 8500 miles; I get my services done every 7500. Many other people in the DC suburbs drive on DC city streets every day and will need more frequent service.

The maintenance minder also ensures that the dealer doesn't recommend a service in 3000 miles. When I got my car serviced at the dealer, the sticker on the windshield said, "Schedule next oil change at 15% oil life".


Yes, I know. My folks have a newer CRV -- I think it's an '07 or an '08 and it has the oil life indicator / maintenance minder that you mention on your Civic. It's handy, and I imagine one of the reasons the manufacturers are using these now is as a way to prevent the dealers from deviating from the manufacturer's service schedule. The manufacturer gets hurt, naturally, when the customer gets pissed off when they are paying all this money for service, and worse if they find out it's not necessary.

Best regards.

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