Car thread: Kia ev9 vs. Toyota grand Highlander hybrid

[Wannaretireearly]

Note: title change to my OP on 9/28

These two came up at after dinner conversation.

1. Opinions on either?
2. You can tell we like mid size suvs. Have a Palisade and have enjoyed it.

3. Alternatives within price range?
4. Don’t want sky high insurance or maintainance cost.

5. LEASE or BUY? Someone who reads leasehackr give me something easy to comprehend please!

6. No Tesla. Tried Model Y and X last week. What is it with a glass roof that allows sun and heat with a tiny sliver of a shade. Wtf? Nope.

Thanks!

[GoDucks1988]

Ev9 will be larger than the Tucson. More comparable to the palisade.

[toomanysidehustles]

What is it with a glass roof that allows sun and heat with a tiny sliver of a shade. Wtf? Nope.

Thanks!

People apparently are ceramic tinting the glass roof, it then becomes less of a cooker than a metal roof.

[TheGreyingDuke]

The time for the plug in ybrids has passed, too complex, poor performance

https://www.motortrend.com/features/plu ... n-feature/

[cmr79]

Ev9 will be larger than the Tucson. More comparable to the palisade.

Second this. EV9 is a functional three row vehicle (the third row is suitable for humans, unlike the available third row in the Model Y), and the Tuscon is two rows. OP would benefit from deciding on a class of vehicles first, as the options posted aren't really suitable for cross-shopping.

[FCM]

Just make sure you don't buy a Hyundai with white exterior paint. I own a 2018 Hyundai Sonata that has the white paint peeling off the hood and roof. Hyundai has refused to pay for repainting the affected areas. This is a major problem for many Hyundai owners who own 2017/2018 white painted cars, and Hyundai knows about it but refuses to pay for repainting if the car is over 5 years old. I won't buy another Hyundai!

[NYCaviator]

These two came up at after dinner conversation.

1. Opinions on either?
2. You can tell we like mid size suvs. Have a Palisade and have enjoyed it.

3. Alternatives within price range?
4. Don’t want sky high insurance or maintainance cost.

5. LEASE or BUY? Someone who reads leasehackr give me something easy to comprehend please!

6. No Tesla. Tried Model Y and X last week. What is it with a glass roof that allows sun and heat with a tiny sliver of a shade. Wtf? Nope.

Thanks!

I would have a hard time buying or recommending a Kia or Hyundai. For so many years their market was making ultra-cheap, economy vehicles that had questionable safety ratings. Suddenly they started coming out with popular models (i.e. the Telluride) and people were praising them. But then you had the theft problem over the last few years because they were too cheap to put in an ignition security chip on brand new cars, which sort of confirmed my suspicions that they are still building cheap cars dressed up to look like they aren't cheap cars. Also see FCM's post above about the paint issue.

You also need to decide if you want an EV or a plug-in hybrid. These are two completely different vehicles. I'd recommend full EV if you can charge at home. A plug-in hybrid is sort of the worst compromise. You have all of the maintenance of a gas engine and a tiny EV engine that won't get you very far on full electric. Plus you've got all the added complexity of the gas + EV. I get it for people who need the added range of a gas engine, but if an EV works for you, go full EV.

99% of the time it seems like buying makes sense, unless there is some reason a lease will work out so that you can get a tax credit.

What is your price range so people can give you recommendations? The Kia is around 55k but you said you test drove a Model X, which is around 80k.

[papiper]

6. No Tesla. Tried Model Y and X last week. What is it with a glass roof that allows sun and heat with a tiny sliver of a shade. Wtf? Nope.

I was worried about the glass roof too - my wife has hated previous sunroofs while I always liked the light. The Tesla roof is excellent at UV protection, and that combined with the ability to set the car temp from the App before you get in has made it a non issue. No headliner - more headroom and no feeling of it being too bright or baking. We did buy the sunroof shade before purchase - have never installed it.

[Wannaretireearly]

Toyota grand highlander? Thoughts?

[Wannaretireearly]

Size is a concern. ‘We’ want bigger. I.e. Pallisade size. What are my options?

[Wannaretireearly]

The time for the plug in ybrids has passed, too complex, poor performance

https://www.motortrend.com/features/plu ... n-feature/

Thanks this helps remove the plug in category. Much appreciated

[slbnoob]

The EV9 is a solid EV. Hyundai/Kia are doing very well with their EV technology portfolio and are leaders in my book over many European and all Japanese, but not Chinese counterparts. You probably need to decide on the class of vehicle as others are pointing out.

[froman118]

Thanks this helps remove the plug in category. Much appreciated

I wouldn't use that MT opinion piece to rule out PHEV. This statement is just wrong: "A dead PHEV battery means you’re needlessly dragging a heavy EV drivetrain around town with you. As Neil points out, that means a discharged PHEV will almost certainly achieve worse mileage than a comparable full-ICE vehicle."

The author seems to have forgotten about regenerative braking and the "H" in PHEV that has been around for 20+ years. An empty PHEV would have a slight mileage hit vs a HEV from the extra battery weight, but the PHEV batteries are fraction of the size of full EVs. You likely have a larger hit on mileage with an extra person riding with you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rav4prime/comm ... y_hell_no/

[TheGreyingDuke]

I would have a hard time buying or recommending a Kia or Hyundai. For so many years their market was making ultra-cheap, economy vehicles that had questionable safety ratings. Suddenly they started coming out with popular models (i.e. the Telluride) and people were praising them. But then you had the theft problem over the last few years because they were too cheap to put in an ignition security chip on brand new cars, which sort of confirmed my suspicions that they are still building cheap cars dressed up to look like they aren't cheap cars. Also see FCM's post above about the paint issue. .

I have a different take on this; yes, Hyundai really screwed up with its failure to provide interlcok mechanisms on their cars but to say that are "building cheap cars dressed up to look like they aren't cheap" is a... cheap shot. Their recent models are widely reviewed as being near the top in their class and their EV architecture, inclduing 800v chargers, are at the top of the game.

Even the widely beloved Toyota gets caught up in corrupt acts:

Japan's transport ministry raided the headquarters of motor giant Toyota on Tuesday, as a scandal over faulty safety data escalated.
The world's largest carmaker has apologised for providing incorrect or manipulated data for safety certification tests.
The scandal has shaken the Japanese car industry, with rivals Honda, Mazda and Suzuki also admitting to submitting faulty data.
Toyota sold more than 11 million passenger vehicles in 2023.
It has said the findings do not affect the safety of vehicles already on the road.
The company has suspended the production of three car models - the Corolla Fielder, Corolla Axio and Yaris Cross.
It has also been accused of using modified vehicles during safety collision tests, for vehicles that are no longer in production.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1wwj1p2wdyo

[lazydavid]

I would have a hard time buying or recommending a Kia or Hyundai. For so many years their market was making ultra-cheap, economy vehicles that had questionable safety ratings. Suddenly they started coming out with popular models (i.e. the Telluride) and people were praising them.

To be fair, the change wasn't sudden. They made utter garbage in the 80s and 90s, and then gradually turned the corner in the 2000s, over a decade before the Pallisade/Telluride twins were released. My parents had a 2012 Hyundai Genesis for about 10 years that they liked so well they went back and got a Santa Fe Hybrid. That, in turn, they liked well enough to buy it out at lease end. It's had one emissions-related repair.

But then you had the theft problem over the last few years because they were too cheap to put in an ignition security chip on brand new cars, which sort of confirmed my suspicions that they are still building cheap cars dressed up to look like they aren't cheap cars.

This is not wrong, but lacks nuance. The ones that were easy to steal WERE cheap cars. It wasn't the entire lineup, it was lower-trim versions of the 4 least-expensive models. Nearly all had MSRPs in the teens, a handful (like some of the Sportages) in the low twenties. They absolutely made a poor choice in forgoing immobilizers to help hit those low price points, especially considering in many cases the higher-trim versions of the same model DID have immobilizers as standard.

On the main topic, I agree with most posters that you really need to decide what you want. The Tuscon is a compact 2-row CUV (smaller than my parents' Santa Fe, which is also 2-row), while the EV9 is a large 3-row. I would be choosing a market segment, then comparing vehicles from multiple brands in that segment, rather than comparing two vehicles from the same brand in wildly different segments.

That said, if you do go EV, you 100% want to lease. The $7500 federal tax credit is not available to most buyers, but in almost all cases dealers can get it and pass it along to customers who lease.

Edit: now that I read further down in the thread:

Size is a concern. ‘We’ want bigger. I.e. Pallisade size. What are my options?

Yeah you definitely don't want the Tuscon, as it's WAY too small for what you're looking for. The EV9 would be a great size for you, and if you're sticking with gas, the Pallisade/Telluride are an amazing value. We drove a Pallisade Calligraphy almost 3,000 miles on a recent vacation, and while our Audi Q7 is definitely nicer, we all agreed it's not $30,000 nicer.

[lazydavid]

I wouldn't use that MT opinion piece to rule out PHEV. This statement is just wrong: "A dead PHEV battery means you’re needlessly dragging a heavy EV drivetrain around town with you. As Neil points out, that means a discharged PHEV will almost certainly achieve worse mileage than a comparable full-ICE vehicle."

The author seems to have forgotten about regenerative braking and the "H" in PHEV that has been around for 20+ years. An empty PHEV would have a slight mileage hit vs a HEV from the extra battery weight, but the PHEV batteries are fraction of the size of full EVs. You likely have a larger hit on mileage with an extra person riding with you.

Agreed completely. I had a Pacifica Hybrid as a rental for a week, and found it to drive amazingly well--dramatically more so than the gas version of the same vehicle. What surprised me the most was that even when the Hybrid battery was stone dead according to the gauge cluster, it still drove in EV mode something like 70% of the time, either with the engine totally off, or just running at low speed as a generator rather than driving the wheels. I had free charging at the hotel, and it cost me less than $5 to refill the tank at the end of the week.

As you correctly note, A PHEV with a "dead" battery (they never really go dead) doesn't become an ICE car dragging around an EV powertrain. It becomes a regular Hybrid. "Escalator is temporary stairs, sorry for the convenience."

[Wannaretireearly]

Thanks all. I think the segment we’ve settled on is medium suv.
So, yes, Tucson is out.

We are going to check out the ev9 today along with Toyotas hybrid products. Grand highlander hybrid is what we are thinking.

Why? Feedback from recent buyers say if you go with a hybrid go with Toyota. Do you agree?

Buying a car is a headache, cos thing change a lot.

I think I’m going to like the ev9, but not like leasing it. How much risk is there to buy it outright? I bought solar panels that degrade lol.

I think my wife is trending towards Toyota hybrid for reliability reasons.

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out! SMH.

[sambb]

hybrid toyotas, in general are wonderful products with great resale value and longevity. you can keep it 10 years plus.

[lazydavid]

Thanks all. I think the segment we’ve settled on is medium suv.
So, yes, Tucson is out.

We are going to check out the ev9 today along with Toyotas hybrid products. Grand highlander hybrid is what we are thinking.

Why? Feedback from recent buyers say if you go with a hybrid go with Toyota. Do you agree?

Grand Highlander is an excellent choice, but we're past the days where Toyota was the only game in town for traditional hybrids. They're still excellent, but so are some others. Hybrid or no, a GH is still a pretty big vehicle for a 4-cylinder IMO.

I think I’m going to like the ev9, but not like leasing it. How much risk is there to buy it outright? I bought solar panels that degrade lol.

The risk (really more of a guarantee than a risk) is that you take $7500 and light it on fire. There is a $7500 EV credit that you will almost certainly not be eligible for if you purchase outright, but that you likely will receive if you lease.

Even if your intention is to buy, you should lease first, THEN buy.

[bd7]

The time for the plug in ybrids has passed, too complex, poor performance

https://www.motortrend.com/features/plu ... n-feature/

That article is 100% opinionated FUD. Hybrids, including the PHEV variety, are often more reliable than their ICE counterparts because of the transmission design and the fact that the ICE engine is always running under optimized load conditions. The dead battery as deadweight argument is completely fallacious--the battery never goes "dead" in a hybrid, unlike an EV. It just reverts from EV-mode to hybrid mode and is still an integral part of the drive system.

Plug-in and standard hybrids are not obsolete, they'll likely be around another 20 years.

[Wannaretireearly]

Thanks all. I think the segment we’ve settled on is medium suv.
So, yes, Tucson is out.

We are going to check out the ev9 today along with Toyotas hybrid products. Grand highlander hybrid is what we are thinking.

Why? Feedback from recent buyers say if you go with a hybrid go with Toyota. Do you agree?

Grand Highlander is an excellent choice, but we're past the days where Toyota was the only game in town for traditional hybrids. They're still excellent, but so are some others. Hybrid or no, a GH is still a pretty big vehicle for a 4-cylinder IMO.

I think I’m going to like the ev9, but not like leasing it. How much risk is there to buy it outright? I bought solar panels that degrade lol.

The risk (really more of a guarantee than a risk) is that you take $7500 and light it on fire. There is a $7500 EV credit that you will almost certainly not be eligible for if you purchase outright, but that you likely will receive if you lease.

Even if your intention is to buy, you should lease first, THEN buy.

Great input. Thanks lazydavid!

[cmr79]

"Escalator is temporary stairs, sorry for the convenience."

Excellent reference...RIP Mitch.

[Wannaretireearly]

I have a lease quote for the ev9 light long range:
$3k down and $437 a month for 24 months.

The selling price, before discounts is $61k. Way too high when it seems invoice and truecar are down at $51-$52k. Time to negotiate. The games have started!

Any negotiation tips? How do I ensure residual value is in my favor?

(First time leaser)

[yankees60]

I have a lease quote for the ev9 light long range:
$3k down and $437 a month for 24 months.

The selling price, before discounts is $61k. Way too high when it seems invoice and truecar are down at $51-$52k. Time to negotiate. The games have started!

Any negotiation tips? How do I ensure residual value is in my favor?

(First time leaser)

$437 a month seems breathtaking to me who has no monthly payments of anything near that size.

On top of that you have to insure? Pay excise taxes? Obviously buy gas. Repairs?

[lazydavid]

Any negotiation tips? How do I ensure residual value is in my favor?

(First time leaser)

So the first tip is that the residual is the ONE aspect of the transaction that you have zero control over. It is a hard number, set as a % of MSRP (not the actual sale price) and cannot be negotiated. The percentage may vary slightly from month to month depending on how the Manufacturer’s finance arm wants to handle things, but it is literally impossible to negotiate.

So…negotiate everything else.

[Wannaretireearly]

I have a lease quote for the ev9 light long range:
$3k down and $437 a month for 24 months.

The selling price, before discounts is $61k. Way too high when it seems invoice and truecar are down at $51-$52k. Time to negotiate. The games have started!

Any negotiation tips? How do I ensure residual value is in my favor?

(First time leaser)

$437 a month seems breathtaking to me who has no monthly payments of anything near that size.

On top of that you have to insure? Pay excise taxes? Obviously buy gas. Repairs?

No gas. Electric car

[Wannaretireearly]

Any negotiation tips? How do I ensure residual value is in my favor?

(First time leaser)

So the first tip is that the residual is the ONE aspect of the transaction that you have zero control over. It is a hard number, set as a % of MSRP (not the actual sale price) and cannot be negotiated. The percentage may vary slightly from month to month depending on how the Manufacturer’s finance arm wants to handle things, but it is literally impossible to negotiate.

So…negotiate everything else.

Gotcha. Thanks! I had thought the 50/60/70% etc values for residual are negotiable. What are the ‘rules’ if it’s off the table?

[yankees60]

I have a lease quote for the ev9 light long range:
$3k down and $437 a month for 24 months.

The selling price, before discounts is $61k. Way too high when it seems invoice and truecar are down at $51-$52k. Time to negotiate. The games have started!

Any negotiation tips? How do I ensure residual value is in my favor?

(First time leaser)

$437 a month seems breathtaking to me who has no monthly payments of anything near that size.

On top of that you have to insure? Pay excise taxes? Obviously buy gas. Repairs?

No gas. Electric car

Then electricity. I've been informed it takes about 3,500 per KwH per 10,000 driven. At my rates that would be about $1,100 a year for 10,000 miles, $2,200 for 20,000 miles.

[Wannaretireearly]

I have a lease quote for the ev9 light long range:
$3k down and $437 a month for 24 months.

The selling price, before discounts is $61k. Way too high when it seems invoice and truecar are down at $51-$52k. Time to negotiate. The games have started!

Any negotiation tips? How do I ensure residual value is in my favor?

(First time leaser)

$437 a month seems breathtaking to me who has no monthly payments of anything near that size.

On top of that you have to insure? Pay excise taxes? Obviously buy gas. Repairs?

No gas. Electric car

Then electricity. I've been informed it takes about 3,500 per KwH per 10,000 driven. At my rates that would be about $1,100 a year for 10,000 miles, $2,200 for 20,000 miles.

A very good and fair point!
My head spins when I try to factor everything.
This will be my first electric and first lease, so my learning curve is steep!!

[toast0]

Just as a heads up, the Grand Highlander has a recall for the driver's side curtain airbag, and I believe is still on a stop sale. From what I've heard, dealers have started repairs on cars that were sold before the recall, and production is supposed to start working on the cars in their lot mid October, and new production will restart in late October. Expect to have some difficulty with availability.

[Wannaretireearly]

Just as a heads up, the Grand Highlander has a recall for the driver's side curtain airbag, and I believe is still on a stop sale. From what I've heard, dealers have started repairs on cars that were sold before the recall, and production is supposed to start working on the cars in their lot mid October, and new production will restart in late October. Expect to have some difficulty with availability.

Yep, thx. We found that out at Toyota and Lexus today! (TX same deal). Oh well, makes the decision making that much easier.

[runswithscissors]

What is it with a glass roof that allows sun and heat with a tiny sliver of a shade. Wtf? Nope.

Thanks!

People apparently are ceramic tinting the glass roof, it then becomes less of a cooker than a metal roof.

This is false. A standard typical metal roof with insulation/headliner (even one painted jet black) would introduce far less heat into a cabin than a glass roof with the best UV protection (UV protection does absolutely nothing to block heat, BTW) and best world class ceramic tint. Lots of people will comment on how much cooler a glass roof becomes when a quality tint is applied. But they are still many magnitudes hotter than a classic metal roof.

We have both a Tesla and a Rivian. Between the glass roofs and ridiculous all-touchscreen UIs I loathe both our vehicles. But DW loves them and we have PV (free gas) so we are stuck with these cookers.

The EV9 does not have an all glass with no sunshade cooker roof so that's a nice plus.

[lazydavid]

Gotcha. Thanks! I had thought the 50/60/70% etc values for residual are negotiable. What are the ‘rules’ if it’s off the table?

No, the residual is set by the finance company and is rigidly fixed. Looks like in July it was 65%. In a lease you are essentially financing the difference between your negotiated sale price and the residual value. Since residual is fixed and based on MSRP, you can narrow that gap by negotiating a lower sale price. The $7500 federal rebate will be part of this reduction from MSRP

Once a price is negotiated, you can further reduce the amount that is actually financed by making a down payment (referred to as a capitalized cost reduction), most lease agreements will have a total driveoff cost in the $2,000-4,000 range. This includes the acquisition fee, security deposit cap cost reduction and first month's payment. It is not advisable to make a large down payment on a lease.

Then what you're left with is a balance that is financed over the lease term, at an interest rate represented by Money Factor (MF). To find the effective interest rate, just multiply MF by 2400. The example I linked above had a MF of .00053, so the effective interest rate is 1.27%, which is an insanely low (subsidized) rate. Generally there's not a lot of wiggle room in MF negotiation, but it's not as solidly locked as residual is. Some companies (not sure if Hyundai/Kia Finance is one of them), will let you "buy down" the MF by making multiple security deposits (MSDs). This is essentially taking that security deposit included in the initial drive-off fee and increasing it by 2-9x. This is different from a down payment, as it is money that is contractually owed back to you at the end of the lease.

[Wannaretireearly]

What is it with a glass roof that allows sun and heat with a tiny sliver of a shade. Wtf? Nope.

Thanks!

People apparently are ceramic tinting the glass roof, it then becomes less of a cooker than a metal roof.

This is false. A standard typical metal roof with insulation/headliner (even one painted jet black) would introduce far less heat into a cabin than a glass roof with the best UV protection (UV protection does absolutely nothing to block heat, BTW) and best world class ceramic tint. Lots of people will comment on how much cooler a glass roof becomes when a quality tint is applied. But they are still many magnitudes hotter than a classic metal roof.

We have both a Tesla and a Rivian. Between the glass roofs and ridiculous all-touchscreen UIs I loathe both our vehicles. But DW loves them and we have PV (free gas) so we are stuck with these cookers.

The EV9 does not have an all glass with no sunshade cooker roof so that's a nice plus.

Thanks for the honest feedback. It was just weird ‘cooking’ in a Tesla during a short test drive.

Yes, we test drove the ev9 yday, it was much more normal.

[Wannaretireearly]

Gotcha. Thanks! I had thought the 50/60/70% etc values for residual are negotiable. What are the ‘rules’ if it’s off the table?

No, the residual is set by the finance company and is rigidly fixed. Looks like in July it was 65%. In a lease you are essentially financing the difference between your negotiated sale price and the residual value. Since residual is fixed and based on MSRP, you can narrow that gap by negotiating a lower sale price. The $7500 federal rebate will be part of this reduction from MSRP

Once a price is negotiated, you can further reduce the amount that is actually financed by making a down payment (referred to as a capitalized cost reduction), most lease agreements will have a total driveoff cost in the $2,000-4,000 range. This includes the acquisition fee, security deposit cap cost reduction and first month's payment. It is not advisable to make a large down payment on a lease.

Then what you're left with is a balance that is financed over the lease term, at an interest rate represented by Money Factor (MF). To find the effective interest rate, just multiply MF by 2400. The example I linked above had a MF of .00053, so the effective interest rate is 1.27%, which is an insanely low (subsidized) rate. Generally there's not a lot of wiggle room in MF negotiation, but it's not as solidly locked as residual is. Some companies (not sure if Hyundai/Kia Finance is one of them), will let you "buy down" the MF by making multiple security deposits (MSDs). This is essentially taking that security deposit included in the initial drive-off fee and increasing it by 2-9x. This is different from a down payment, as it is money that is contractually owed back to you at the end of the lease.

Thanks for the detailed write up! So much I am learning here

[Wannaretireearly]

Quick update. Bought an EV9 light long range. 3k down, $417/month. 24 months.

I did sign up for excess wear and tear ($420). I got talked into this as covering scratches, tire wear etc. I’m not sure if this is worth it. Checking with the finance guy for more details.

I also signed up for a maintenance package. $300. I just realized all this covers is tire rotations every 6 months! Doh! Anyway finance manager is going to check on the cost for each service.

Aside from the two add ons above that I’m iffy about now, the suv is nice and I’m happy with the deal. Drives like my Palisade!

[Wannaretireearly]

New question: I have a 220-240 volt receptacle in my garage. Any advice what kind of L2 charger to get? There seem to be options

[cmr79]

New question: I have a 220-240 volt receptacle in my garage. Any advice what kind of L2 charger to get? There seem to be options

I believe the EV9 allows you to set charging times inside of the vehicle if you have access to off peak rates (or just want to be a good steward of the electrical grid), so you probably don't need a smart charger that is wifi enabled and has those features. I have a "dumb" Grizzl-E charger which is currently selling for $350 and is rock solid. The cord is a little bit thick, definitely heavy duty but a little more cumbersome to handle vs some others. Up to you whether you value perceived durability vs slightly improved convenience with a thinner cord. All of these EVSEs are basically just fancy extension cords with GFCI built in, so they aren't overly complex pieces of tech...

[Wannaretireearly]

New question: I have a 220-240 volt receptacle in my garage. Any advice what kind of L2 charger to get? There seem to be options

I believe the EV9 allows you to set charging times inside of the vehicle if you have access to off peak rates (or just want to be a good steward of the electrical grid), so you probably don't need a smart charger that is wifi enabled and has those features. I have a "dumb" Grizzl-E charger which is currently selling for $350 and is rock solid. The cord is a little bit thick, definitely heavy duty but a little more cumbersome to handle vs some others. Up to you whether you value perceived durability vs slightly improved convenience with a thinner cord. All of these EVSEs are basically just fancy extension cords with GFCI built in, so they aren't overly complex pieces of tech...

Thanks, I just ordered this one:
https://a.co/d/gvbblOc

[cmr79]

New question: I have a 220-240 volt receptacle in my garage. Any advice what kind of L2 charger to get? There seem to be options

I believe the EV9 allows you to set charging times inside of the vehicle if you have access to off peak rates (or just want to be a good steward of the electrical grid), so you probably don't need a smart charger that is wifi enabled and has those features. I have a "dumb" Grizzl-E charger which is currently selling for $350 and is rock solid. The cord is a little bit thick, definitely heavy duty but a little more cumbersome to handle vs some others. Up to you whether you value perceived durability vs slightly improved convenience with a thinner cord. All of these EVSEs are basically just fancy extension cords with GFCI built in, so they aren't overly complex pieces of tech...

Thanks, I just ordered this one:
https://a.co/d/gvbblOc

Seems like a solid choice...I don't have any firsthand experience as it is newer, but Tom from State of Charge does very in depth, reputable reviews, so if this is one of his top recommendations, I would guess that you will be satisfied. Which for the most part means not having to think about it beyond the few seconds it takes to plug in/unplug

[toomanysidehustles]

Toyota grand highlander? Thoughts?

I just got an Uber ride in a Toyota Grand Highlander hybrid. Driver said it was getting 30-33mpg, they got a fleet of them primarily for driving from Denver INTL airport to the ski resort areas. It seemed every bit as big as our Land Cruiser, very nice ride. Vented/heated 2nd row seats!!!!!!!!

Please update this thread on winter range on the EV9 (if you get winter temps where you live). EV/winter range is a thing, especially here in Colorado where we can see highs in the single digits on a regular basis.

[Wannaretireearly]

Toyota grand highlander? Thoughts?

I just got an Uber ride in a Toyota Grand Highlander hybrid. Driver said it was getting 30-33mpg, they got a fleet of them primarily for driving from Denver INTL airport to the ski resort areas. It seemed every bit as big as our Land Cruiser, very nice ride. Vented/heated 2nd row seats!!!!!!!!

Please update this thread on winter range on the EV9 (if you get winter temps where you live). EV/winter range is a thing, especially here in Colorado where we can see highs in the single digits on a regular basis.

Sure. Doesn’t get too cold here. I’ll update mileage periodically. Remind me if I forget

[Wannaretireearly]

New question: I have a 220-240 volt receptacle in my garage. Any advice what kind of L2 charger to get? There seem to be options

I believe the EV9 allows you to set charging times inside of the vehicle if you have access to off peak rates (or just want to be a good steward of the electrical grid), so you probably don't need a smart charger that is wifi enabled and has those features. I have a "dumb" Grizzl-E charger which is currently selling for $350 and is rock solid. The cord is a little bit thick, definitely heavy duty but a little more cumbersome to handle vs some others. Up to you whether you value perceived durability vs slightly improved convenience with a thinner cord. All of these EVSEs are basically just fancy extension cords with GFCI built in, so they aren't overly complex pieces of tech...

Thanks, I just ordered this one:
https://a.co/d/gvbblOc

Seems like a solid choice...I don't have any firsthand experience as it is newer, but Tom from State of Charge does very in depth, reputable reviews, so if this is one of his top recommendations, I would guess that you will be satisfied. Which for the most part means not having to think about it beyond the few seconds it takes to plug in/unplug

Thanks. Yep, good reviews from Tom. Fingers crossed.
The 3 hour charge test today with 110v was a debacle lol. My wife thought the range didn’t move at all (perhaps 2-5 mile increase). Take two, once this new L2 charger appears tomorrow!

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Why? Feedback from recent buyers say if you go with a hybrid go with Toyota. Do you agree?

That's my take on it. The Toyota hybrid drive train is a marvel of simplicity: one gas engine, one planetary gear set, some fixed reduction gears, two electric motor-generators, no clutch. And Toyota has continued to improve and refine the original design based on experience, so after nearly 25 years it's no surprise that they've gotten really good at it. The other manufacturers use more complex designs, usually involving a clutch somewhere, and have a history of jumping in and out of hybrids as the market changes. (Ironically enough, the Prius drive train was originally developed at Ford, who then sold it to Toyota).

On the Motortrend article, I can kind of see where he's coming from. Driving an eCVT is a very different feeling from a traditional transmission, and if you love the pure EV driving experience then any kind of hybrid is probably not a good choice for you. It depends on what you want from a car.

[Wannaretireearly]

Why? Feedback from recent buyers say if you go with a hybrid go with Toyota. Do you agree?

That's my take on it. The Toyota hybrid drive train is a marvel of simplicity: one gas engine, one planetary gear set, some fixed reduction gears, two electric motor-generators, no clutch. And Toyota has continued to improve and refine the original design based on experience, so after nearly 25 years it's no surprise that they've gotten really good at it. The other manufacturers use more complex designs, usually involving a clutch somewhere, and have a history of jumping in and out of hybrids as the market changes. (Ironically enough, the Prius drive train was originally developed at Ford, who then sold it to Toyota).

On the Motortrend article, I can kind of see where he's coming from. Driving an eCVT is a very different feeling from a traditional transmission, and if you love the pure EV driving experience then any kind of hybrid is probably not a good choice for you. It depends on what you want from a car.

Thanks. I wish I had the chance to check out a Toyota hybrid.
Poor sales folks were dejected on the weekend. Nothing on the lot cos of mass recalls.

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The other manufacturers use more complex designs, usually involving a clutch somewhere, and have a history of jumping in and out of hybrids as the market changes.

Jumping in and out yes, but some manufacturers use the same basic design on some of their cars; unfortunately, you've got to dig into the details to know if a model has this good design idea, or something less great. Also, the Grand Hylander Hybrid Max, and TX 500h hybrid has an automatic 6-speed and a motor between the engine and the transmission, rather than the eCVT, so not all the Toyotas are eCVT either. From my test drive months ago, the 500h seemed fine, but not smooth like my eCVT C-Max PHEV.