Plumber 'broke' the water heater
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Plumber 'broke' the water heater
This isn't an accusation but more of trying to find what my options are.
I called a Plumber to disconnect the gas appliance. He quoted me $600 to disconnect the appliance, cap the line and as per code, purge the gas line and check for any leaks. Eventually he found out there were leaks at two places. To fix the leaks he quoted me $800 which I agreed as a gas-leak was the last thing I wanted in the basement. While turning off the gas, he also shut down our gas water heater. Do note though the gas water heater is about 16-year-old (GE) and was on its last legs.
The water heater does not come up now after fixing the leaks and turning on the gas. The plumber says it might be an issue with the Igniter assembly and since it's too old and GE doesn't produce them anymore, we may have to buy a new heater. He did try to ignite it manually but was unsuccessful.
The plumber gave me a new quote for $3500(!) for a new heater, reconnect the gas line, check the flue for proper draft and bring it up to code.
Besides trying to get another quote from another vendor, any suggestions what I can do?
I called a Plumber to disconnect the gas appliance. He quoted me $600 to disconnect the appliance, cap the line and as per code, purge the gas line and check for any leaks. Eventually he found out there were leaks at two places. To fix the leaks he quoted me $800 which I agreed as a gas-leak was the last thing I wanted in the basement. While turning off the gas, he also shut down our gas water heater. Do note though the gas water heater is about 16-year-old (GE) and was on its last legs.
The water heater does not come up now after fixing the leaks and turning on the gas. The plumber says it might be an issue with the Igniter assembly and since it's too old and GE doesn't produce them anymore, we may have to buy a new heater. He did try to ignite it manually but was unsuccessful.
The plumber gave me a new quote for $3500(!) for a new heater, reconnect the gas line, check the flue for proper draft and bring it up to code.
Besides trying to get another quote from another vendor, any suggestions what I can do?
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
All the numbers you quoted seem high, basically 2x.
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
I paid over 3K for an electric water heater a few years ago. I had the heater placed in a new spot and had to run the electric wires to it and also do extra plumbing work. I asked why the price was so high and was told that the water heater companies were raising their prices a lot each year during the pandemic. I'm sure the prices stuck. I wanted the work done and just went with a reputable local company.
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
Consider having another vendor or two check the water heater - perhaps there is a clog in the gas line or perhaps the pilot needs to be manually lit after a gas turn off.
If repair is not possible, ask for quotes on a new install which will help you determine a fair price.
If repair is not possible, ask for quotes on a new install which will help you determine a fair price.
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
That price seems extremely high.
You could get somebody else in to try to light the water heater.
Whatever else was done should not have affected the water
heater. That company can quote you a replacement price.
Besides getting somebody cheaper, at these prices, you could look into
the cost of installing a hybrid water heater.
These are basically an air source heat pump inside your house
converting heat in the air to hot water. They will have a backup
electric water heater either 120V or 240V. They are more expensive,
but you can cap or eliminate the gas line and chimney.
Hybrid water heaters are more efficient, and there are tax credits
for the water heater and for electrical panel upgrades if needed.
You could get somebody else in to try to light the water heater.
Whatever else was done should not have affected the water
heater. That company can quote you a replacement price.
Besides getting somebody cheaper, at these prices, you could look into
the cost of installing a hybrid water heater.
These are basically an air source heat pump inside your house
converting heat in the air to hot water. They will have a backup
electric water heater either 120V or 240V. They are more expensive,
but you can cap or eliminate the gas line and chimney.
Hybrid water heaters are more efficient, and there are tax credits
for the water heater and for electrical panel upgrades if needed.
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
1plansimmer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:12 am This isn't an accusation but more of trying to find what my options are.
I called a Plumber to disconnect the gas appliance. He quoted me $600 to disconnect the appliance, cap the line and as per code, purge the gas line and check for any leaks. Eventually he found out there were leaks at two places. To fix the leaks he quoted me $800 which I agreed as a gas-leak was the last thing I wanted in the basement. While turning off the gas, he also shut down our gas water heater. Do note though the gas water heater is about 16-year-old (GE) and was on its last legs.
The water heater does not come up now after fixing the leaks and turning on the gas. The plumber says it might be an issue with the Igniter assembly and since it's too old and GE doesn't produce them anymore, we may have to buy a new heater. He did try to ignite it manually but was unsuccessful.
The plumber gave me a new quote for $3500(!) for a new heater, reconnect the gas line, check the flue for proper draft and bring it up to code.
Besides trying to get another quote from another vendor, any suggestions what I can do?
Get more quotes and diagnostics on the water heater from other plumbers to repair or replace.
2
Act on the basis of that new information.
j
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
Your heater likely has an FVIR "closed" combustion system.
There are several FVIR (Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistance) systems that are proprietary in their parts, change, and get discontinued.
And at times can be finicky to the point of not functioning.
So you, the plumber, whoever turns it off and it won't turn back on.
If it is a normal draft heater, the pilot with vial or fusible link may be the problem and need replacing. In the past the assembly came with a new piezo igniter.
As the plumber said, it may not be available. But it may be or an alternative may be and he doesn't what to replace parts and get a call back a month later on a 16 year old heater with a mad customer.
If the pilot assembly is replaced and still no fire, it's commonly the gas valve.
Gas valves have test procedures that make them not field testable. I hate that because it puts you in the middle of a "guess to replace" but that's what White Rogers & other manufacturers have told me.
There's not much past those two items to keep it from firing if it's a "normal" draft heater.
Double check, then triple check that the supply line to the burner/pilot is purged before attempting to light.
Good luck.
There are several FVIR (Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistance) systems that are proprietary in their parts, change, and get discontinued.
And at times can be finicky to the point of not functioning.
So you, the plumber, whoever turns it off and it won't turn back on.
If it is a normal draft heater, the pilot with vial or fusible link may be the problem and need replacing. In the past the assembly came with a new piezo igniter.
As the plumber said, it may not be available. But it may be or an alternative may be and he doesn't what to replace parts and get a call back a month later on a 16 year old heater with a mad customer.
If the pilot assembly is replaced and still no fire, it's commonly the gas valve.
Gas valves have test procedures that make them not field testable. I hate that because it puts you in the middle of a "guess to replace" but that's what White Rogers & other manufacturers have told me.
There's not much past those two items to keep it from firing if it's a "normal" draft heater.
Double check, then triple check that the supply line to the burner/pilot is purged before attempting to light.
Good luck.
Last edited by PoorPlumber on Sat Sep 21, 2024 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
I would watch some Youtube videos on how to light the water heater yourself and try doing that just to make sure that the plumber was being truthful about it not lighting. If it has a pilot light I would also try lighting it with matches just to see if it could be something like a problem with the electronic sparker(or whatever it is called).plansimmer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:12 am Do note though the gas water heater is about 16-year-old (GE) and was on its last legs.
....
The plumber gave me a new quote for $3500(!) for a new heater, reconnect the gas line, check the flue for proper draft and bring it up to code.
.....
Besides trying to get another quote from another vendor, any suggestions what I can do?
If that does not work then at 16 years even if you could get the parts it really is not worth fixing even if you could do it yourself since at best you might get a few more years out of it.
Replacing it now could be a blessing in disguise because you will get it replaced before it leaks and causes any damage.
The "bring it up to code" part is a wild card and there is no way of knowing if that price is in the right ballpark or not since there is no way to know what it involves.
If the water heater is in some hard to get to location like an attic that can make it a lot more expensive and that could be their "we don't want to do it" price. Even when drained the old water heater will be extremely heavy and hard to take out of some place like an attic.
It will vary with how expensive labor is in your area and how much permits cost but where I live to do a straight replacement of a water heater in an easily accessible place like a garage with no other changes I would expect the cost for a typical gas water heater replacement to be more in the $1,500 +/- ballpark.
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
Yeah, not uncommon for that part to go bad, I wouldn't blame the plumber. Hopefully your venting isn't too large (IE...if it's atmospheric venting shared and still sized for HVAC that was replaced with a high efficiency gas system).
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
A hybrid water heater may be a good idea but two caveatsMathWizard wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:40 am
Besides getting somebody cheaper, at these prices, you could look into
the cost of installing a hybrid water heater.
These are basically an air source heat pump inside your house
converting heat in the air to hot water. They will have a backup
electric water heater either 120V or 240V. They are more expensive,
but you can cap or eliminate the gas line and chimney.
Hybrid water heaters are more efficient, and there are tax credits
for the water heater and for electrical panel upgrades if needed.
1) When people here "more efficient" they think "cheaper to run"; that may not be the case for you depending on the cost of the methane vs. electricity. If you are on Bonneville power, the hybrid electric heater is likely cheaper, if you are in New Engalnd, no way
2) Hybrid water heaters are noisy so if the placement is such that it is near frequently occupied space it may be a major/minor annoyance.h
It does seem your repair prices are high
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
A lot will depend on the specifics of the water heater being replaced. I paid about that for a 75 gallon power vent water heater a couple of years ago. A 50 gallon would have been about half. But the water heater itself was $1600, it was during Covid time and I wanted to replace it with the same capacity as before. The first one lasted 24 years so hopefully the new one will be similar.
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
TheGreyingDuke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 8:53 amA hybrid water heater may be a good idea but two caveatsMathWizard wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:40 am
Besides getting somebody cheaper, at these prices, you could look into
the cost of installing a hybrid water heater.
These are basically an air source heat pump inside your house
converting heat in the air to hot water. They will have a backup
electric water heater either 120V or 240V. They are more expensive,
but you can cap or eliminate the gas line and chimney.
Hybrid water heaters are more efficient, and there are tax credits
for the water heater and for electrical panel upgrades if needed.
1) When people here "more efficient" they think "cheaper to run"; that may not be the case for you depending on the cost of the methane vs. electricity. If you are on Bonneville power, the hybrid electric heater is likely cheaper, if you are in New Engalnd, no way
2) Hybrid water heaters are noisy so if the placement is such that it is near frequently occupied space it may be a major/minor annoyance.h
It does seem your repair prices are high
Why would the cost of electricity be much of a concern if
the backup heater doesn't kick in?
The heat pump portion just uses a small pump/condenser.
I was at my son's house in the basement when his hybrid water heater kicked on, and it was barely noticable.
We were marking the circuits on the electrical panel and
someone had to go into the utility room to see if it turned
on when we flipped the breaker.
I didn't get one because of the cost.
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
Closing the loop on this.
I got hold of an old plumber friend who took a look at it and 'flushed' the air out of the gas pipes, waited a few minutes and relit the pilot light. Worked like a charm!
I'm quite saddened by the level of incompetence I'm seeing these days, who didn't do the job right first and then had the audacity to recommend me to buy a new device because he couldn't fix it.
I got hold of an old plumber friend who took a look at it and 'flushed' the air out of the gas pipes, waited a few minutes and relit the pilot light. Worked like a charm!
I'm quite saddened by the level of incompetence I'm seeing these days, who didn't do the job right first and then had the audacity to recommend me to buy a new device because he couldn't fix it.
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
That story is not that uncommon these days.plansimmer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:03 pm Closing the loop on this.
I got hold of an old plumber friend who took a look at it and 'flushed' the air out of the gas pipes, waited a few minutes and relit the pilot light. Worked like a charm!
I'm quite saddened by the level of incompetence I'm seeing these days, who didn't do the job right first and then had the audacity to recommend me to buy a new device because he couldn't fix it.
I had my water heater replaced 4 years ago. Last year I noticed discoloration on the copper pipe going into the heater. When I touched the pipe I could feel moisture. I eventually traced it to two solder joints that were leaking slight amounts of water. I called the independent plumbing company that installed it and they said it would be $450 to replace the piping. When I pointed out the water was coming from piping they installed they just shrugged. They were going to charge me a $100 trip fee if I refused so I agreed. At least they used propress fittings this time. At least they realized they are mediocre at brazing copper.
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Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
Toldja'!plansimmer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:03 pm Closing the loop on this.
I got hold of an old plumber friend who took a look at it and 'flushed' the air out of the gas pipes, waited a few minutes and relit the pilot light. Worked like a charm!
I'm quite saddened by the level of incompetence I'm seeing these days, who didn't do the job right first and then had the audacity to recommend me to buy a new device because he couldn't fix it.
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
That sounds frustrating! I'd definitely recommend getting a second opinion on the water heater since the quotes can really vary. When my old heater went out, I found a replacement igniter online that saved me a bunch. If the unit is 16 years old, it might just be time for an upgrade, though. When I finally got a new one, I went for a more energy-efficient model, and it made a noticeable difference in my bills.
Re: Plumber 'broke' the water heater
As a data point we just had two 20 year old GE water heaters replaced with two 50 gallon AO Smith proline master for $4638. This included re-plumbing them for parallel operation, making modifications to the gas lines, and installing a new expansion tank. We’re in a HCOLA.