Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
BogleAlltheWay
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by BogleAlltheWay »

All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
jebmke
Posts: 26323
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by jebmke »

we found the ICE Camry underpowered. But we sometimes drive into DC and one would be turned to road pizza without enough pickup to merge off short ramps at 70mph.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
User avatar
retired@50
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:36 pm
Location: Living in the U.S.A.

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by retired@50 »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am ...
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
What's the interest rate?

Regards,
"All of us would be better investors if we just made fewer decisions." - Daniel Kahneman
Dottie57
Posts: 12536
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Dottie57 »

I have a 2018 Camry. I find the engine good enough. But I drive the speed limit.

However I liked m previous Camry Hybrid better. It was one of the first delivered to the dealer. The hybrid halved the gas from filling station each year. About same gas tank size. Bet the hybrids are better now.
tibbitts
Posts: 24101
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by tibbitts »

I haven't had a hybrid car. You don't want to wait for the new generation that's being released now? I assume you're considering the ICE 4 not the 6. Camrys seem to be in very low supply still.

Have you tried the hybrid? I'm curious what the difference in engine braking would be (in fairly extreme conditions) between the ICE and hybrid.

You came to the wrong place to ask about a car loan unless your rate is close to negative.
H-Town
Posts: 5993
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:08 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by H-Town »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Wait for a couple of months and you'll get 2025 Camry. There's no ICE vs. Hybrid debate at that point.
Time is the ultimate currency.
timcob
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:36 am

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by timcob »

Look at the trunk space. The hybrid is quite a bit smaller than the regular camry. Other than that it really depends on how much freeway driving you do and how much city driving.
Claudia Whitten
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Claudia Whitten »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Always pay in full.

So Camrys are widely available again? If so, that's good to hear.

I've had great experience with Camrys. My 2005 Camry still runs great. I can't believe an 18 year old car is still running, much less running great. The ride on that thing is so smooth that I get comments from my passengers about how pleasant it is to ride in it. After riding in my friend's Tesla (that has a horrible, bumpy ride), I understand why.

Maybe they're not making cars as well as they used to?

Before the pandemic, I got in one of the new Camrys. What I did not appreciate right away is how much leg room the center console takes up. My 2005 Camry is comfier up front. You can spread your legs out and not bump into the TV-screen center console.
Topic Author
BogleAlltheWay
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by BogleAlltheWay »

retired@50 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am ...
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
What's the interest rate?

Regards,
I have not gotten into the financial terms yet.
Topic Author
BogleAlltheWay
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by BogleAlltheWay »

H-Town wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:01 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Wait for a couple of months and you'll get 2025 Camry. There's no ICE vs. Hybrid debate at that point.
Why is there no debate?
cshell2
Posts: 1273
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by cshell2 »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:02 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Always pay in full.

So Camrys are widely available again? If so, that's good to hear.

I've had great experience with Camrys. My 2005 Camry still runs great. I can't believe an 18 year old car is still running, much less running great. The ride on that thing is so smooth that I get comments from my passengers about how pleasant it is to ride in it. After riding in my friend's Tesla (that has a horrible, bumpy ride), I understand why.

Maybe they're not making cars as well as they used to?

Before the pandemic, I got in one of the new Camrys. What I did not appreciate right away is how much leg room the center console takes up. My 2005 Camry is comfier up front. You can spread your legs out and not bump into the TV-screen center console.
I have a 97! My son is graduating from college next month and I'm planning on letting him take it, but it makes me sad. That car is so reliable and cheap to drive and fix if it needs anything done.
cshell2
Posts: 1273
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by cshell2 »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am
H-Town wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:01 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Wait for a couple of months and you'll get 2025 Camry. There's no ICE vs. Hybrid debate at that point.
Why is there no debate?
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
Claudia Whitten
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Claudia Whitten »

cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am

I have a 97! My son is graduating from college next month and I'm planning on letting him take it, but it makes me sad. That car is so reliable and cheap to drive and fix if it needs anything done.
Impressive. My mechanic said that my 2005 Camry will outlast me, which is both good and bad. :)
65TPT
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:01 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by 65TPT »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am
H-Town wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:01 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Wait for a couple of months and you'll get 2025 Camry. There's no ICE vs. Hybrid debate at that point.
Why is there no debate?
The 2025 Camry is being redesigned. It is going hybrid only. It’s supposed to come out this spring. You may want to wait to see if you like it or try to get a deal on a 24 model.
Claudia Whitten
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Claudia Whitten »

cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
H-Town
Posts: 5993
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:08 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by H-Town »

cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am
H-Town wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:01 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Wait for a couple of months and you'll get 2025 Camry. There's no ICE vs. Hybrid debate at that point.
Why is there no debate?
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
That's correct. Plus, 2025 engine is an upgrade. It's up to 225 horsepower for FWD or 232 horsepower for AWD. It's supposed to give you a little boost merging to the highway. 2024 standard engine only gives you 203 horsepower and 182 torque.
Time is the ultimate currency.
User avatar
retired@50
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:36 pm
Location: Living in the U.S.A.

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by retired@50 »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:06 am
retired@50 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am ...
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
What's the interest rate?

Regards,
I have not gotten into the financial terms yet.
Well, without the financial terms, it's awfully hard to evaluate the loan yes/no decision.

If you can get a rate that is lower than today's money market rates, then it would make sense to get the loan. Then, if things change and the loan rate is greater than the money market rate, then you'd just pay off the car loan.

Regards,
"All of us would be better investors if we just made fewer decisions." - Daniel Kahneman
cshell2
Posts: 1273
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by cshell2 »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
The battery is covered under warranty for 10 years or 150K miles (whichever comes first), so you have that long to not worry about it. :wink:
Claudia Whitten
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Claudia Whitten »

cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:43 am
Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
The battery is covered under warranty for 10 years or 150K miles (whichever comes first), so you have that long to not worry about it. :wink:
Is it like the Tesla, where the battery gets you less and less over time as it wears out?
cshell2
Posts: 1273
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by cshell2 »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:44 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:43 am
Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
The battery is covered under warranty for 10 years or 150K miles (whichever comes first), so you have that long to not worry about it. :wink:
Is it like the Tesla, where the battery gets you less and less over time as it wears out?
I would assume like any battery it loses capacity over time, but the Camry is a hybrid, not an all electric like the Tesla. You still have a gas engine and the battery is being constantly charged by the engine and regenerative braking while driving.
Dottie57
Posts: 12536
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Dottie57 »

cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:54 am
Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:44 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:43 am
Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
The battery is covered under warranty for 10 years or 150K miles (whichever comes first), so you have that long to not worry about it. :wink:
Is it like the Tesla, where the battery gets you less and less over time as it wears out?
I would assume like any battery it loses capacity over time, but the Camry is a hybrid, not an all electric like the Tesla. You still have a gas engine and the battery is being constantly charged by the engine and regenerative braking while driving.
Which is very cool. I had a hybrid and the battery was going strong at 12 years.
bob60014
Posts: 3857
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:59 pm
Location: The Land Beyond ORD

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by bob60014 »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:12 am
2025 will only be offered as a hybrid.
Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
Toyota warranty is 10 years/150000 miles. Very reliable batteries and hybrid system.
User avatar
greg24
Posts: 4538
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:34 am

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by greg24 »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:44 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:43 am
Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
The battery is covered under warranty for 10 years or 150K miles (whichever comes first), so you have that long to not worry about it. :wink:
Is it like the Tesla, where the battery gets you less and less over time as it wears out?
Prius battery replacement rates have been lower than originally projected. We are driving a 2010 Prius with 200k and haven't replaced the battery. I'm sure our original battery is a little less powerful than brand new, but our mileage continues to average in the 46 to 48 range despite being a 15 year old car with 200k.

I would think the Toyota hybrid system has improved in the last 15 years. I've been looking for a new Prius or maybe the Camry Hybrid. Maybe when the 2025 Camry comes out, I will be able to find a 2024 Camry Hybrid for a good price.
User avatar
just frank
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 pm
Location: Philly Metro

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by just frank »

greg24 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:18 pm
Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:44 am
cshell2 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:43 am
Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am Do the hybrids last as long as the older Camrys? I have one that's 18 years old. Would I need to change the battery at year 5 or 10 or something?
The battery is covered under warranty for 10 years or 150K miles (whichever comes first), so you have that long to not worry about it. :wink:
Is it like the Tesla, where the battery gets you less and less over time as it wears out?
Prius battery replacement rates have been lower than originally projected. We are driving a 2010 Prius with 200k and haven't replaced the battery. I'm sure our original battery is a little less powerful than brand new, but our mileage continues to average in the 46 to 48 range despite being a 15 year old car with 200k.

I would think the Toyota hybrid system has improved in the last 15 years. I've been looking for a new Prius or maybe the Camry Hybrid. Maybe when the 2025 Camry comes out, I will be able to find a 2024 Camry Hybrid for a good price.
Not sure why the assumption of hybrids improving over time... hybrid drive trains are very mature technology, being >20 years old at this point.

Some of the Toyota hybrids still use Nickel batteries that were developed closer to 40 years ago.
crefwatch
Posts: 2566
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by crefwatch »

In a broad sense, Hybrids are designed (because they are highly computerized drive-by-wire) to behave identically to ICE cars. For example, they are programmed to edge slightly forward (on electricity) when you take your foot off the brake. That's because ICE auto trans drivers expect that to happen!

The most common question I was asked (in the 1990s) about my TWO successive Priuses was "Gee whiz. What do you do when that battery gauge starts to go down? [scared look.]" My answer was, "Nothing. It's the car's responsibility, and you could drive without difficulty even if it got to zero, which it won't." My manly motor-head friends seemed to be disturbed when I told them that the accelerator pedal was more like a radio volume control than like a Foley-Four Barrel servo cable pusher. They were apprehensive about fly-by-wire, just like WW II pilots feel about Airbus planes.

Toyota is very, very, very good at this. Do the dimensions and comfort of the car suit your needs? Can you pay the hybrid premium cost? It's not even a question of whether you are a "tree hugger."
Colorado Guy
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Colorado Guy »

jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:32 am we found the ICE Camry underpowered. But we sometimes drive into DC and one would be turned to road pizza without enough pickup to merge off short ramps at 70mph.
Note that 2024 is the last year that the Camry will have a V6 option (XSE model). This has 301 hp, and some impressive acceleration.
User avatar
just frank
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 pm
Location: Philly Metro

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by just frank »

Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:45 pm
jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:32 am we found the ICE Camry underpowered. But we sometimes drive into DC and one would be turned to road pizza without enough pickup to merge off short ramps at 70mph.
Note that 2024 is the last year that the Camry will have a V6 option (XSE model). This has 301 hp, and some impressive acceleration.
And that is why it gets only 22 mpg City, 33 mpg Highway. Both sound optimistic in my experience with earlier V6 Camrys.

I'm sure Toyota doesn't want to pay the penalties for selling such low mileage vehicles in the US after 2024.
Colorado Guy
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Colorado Guy »

just frank wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:23 pm
Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:45 pm
jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:32 am we found the ICE Camry underpowered. But we sometimes drive into DC and one would be turned to road pizza without enough pickup to merge off short ramps at 70mph.
Note that 2024 is the last year that the Camry will have a V6 option (XSE model). This has 301 hp, and some impressive acceleration.
And that is why it gets only 22 mpg City, 33 mpg Highway. Both sound optimistic in my experience with earlier V6 Camrys.

I'm sure Toyota doesn't want to pay the penalties for selling such low mileage vehicles in the US after 2024.
I was addressing the comment regarding the ICE Camry being underpowered. The V6 option is definitely not underpowered. Plus, I know someone (not a leadfoot) who is currently getting 27 mpg combined mountain, city, and highway driving.
User avatar
just frank
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 pm
Location: Philly Metro

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by just frank »

Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:53 pm
just frank wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:23 pm
Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:45 pm
jebmke wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:32 am we found the ICE Camry underpowered. But we sometimes drive into DC and one would be turned to road pizza without enough pickup to merge off short ramps at 70mph.
Note that 2024 is the last year that the Camry will have a V6 option (XSE model). This has 301 hp, and some impressive acceleration.
And that is why it gets only 22 mpg City, 33 mpg Highway. Both sound optimistic in my experience with earlier V6 Camrys.

I'm sure Toyota doesn't want to pay the penalties for selling such low mileage vehicles in the US after 2024.
I was addressing the comment regarding the ICE Camry being underpowered. The V6 option is definitely not underpowered. Plus, I know someone (not a leadfoot) who is currently getting 27 mpg combined mountain, city, and highway driving.
Sure. Its slightly faster than my Bolt, which takes 6.5 seconds 0-60, to the XLE's 6.0.

I was addressing why the XLEs are no longer being sold after 2024. The combined mpg requirement for passenger cars was last below 30 mpg in 2010. The 2025 requirement is for 55 mpg combined cycle driving, or just half the gas usage of the V6 XLE you report.

Toyota has been paying fines for years for these gas guzzlers.

https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10562
finite_difference
Posts: 3668
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by finite_difference »

65TPT wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:13 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am
H-Town wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:01 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Wait for a couple of months and you'll get 2025 Camry. There's no ICE vs. Hybrid debate at that point.
Why is there no debate?
The 2025 Camry is being redesigned. It is going hybrid only. It’s supposed to come out this spring. You may want to wait to see if you like it or try to get a deal on a 24 model.
I would never buy a redesign or new model year. Unless they are keeping the powertrain the same?
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
bendix
Posts: 893
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:35 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by bendix »

retired@50 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:39 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:06 am
retired@50 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am ...
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
What's the interest rate?

Regards,
I have not gotten into the financial terms yet.
Well, without the financial terms, it's awfully hard to evaluate the loan yes/no decision.

If you can get a rate that is lower than today's money market rates, then it would make sense to get the loan. Then, if things change and the loan rate is greater than the money market rate, then you'd just pay off the car loan.

Regards,
I wholeheartedly disagree. Not having any of these annoying financial details to deal with makes the evaluation a lot easier. Let´s talk about our emotions when we say the words "loan" and "cash" and go from there.
Colorado Guy
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Colorado Guy »

finite_difference wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:21 pm I would never buy a redesign or new model year. Unless they are keeping the powertrain the same?
My understanding is that the hybrid system is the same or similar (possible additional electric motor added), and the 4 cylinder engine is a modification of the existing 4 cylinder. (still a bit of speculation and conflicting statements on what exactly is under the hood)

First year models are generally a little risky, agreed. Toyota is generally conservative, so that is good. Still, even Edmunds states this is a huge gamble by going only hybrid in 2025.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toyota ... -only.html

Back to the original poster:
BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
If wanting an ICE Camry, 2024 is the year. If a hybrid, either a 2024 or a first year 2025. Interesting choices.
random_walker_77
Posts: 2252
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by random_walker_77 »

timcob wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:02 am Look at the trunk space. The hybrid is quite a bit smaller than the regular camry. Other than that it really depends on how much freeway driving you do and how much city driving.
That was true for the earliest generations but I don't think that's true now. In the 2019 camry hybrid, the trunk was the same size. The battery pack is under the passenger seats and does not intrude on the trunk, nor affect the fold-down rear seats.

The 2019 hybrid LE had better mileage than the higher trims, because it was the only trim that had a Lithium battery. It also was unusual in that it got higher mileage on the freeway than in the city (53 highway, 51 city). I was seeing 51 MPG overall, and the motor is strong enough that you could be running on pure electric w/ the ICE cycling on and off even on the highway. Since the mileage is so great, I'd only refuel every 625-650 miles or so.
Northern Flicker
Posts: 15561
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:29 am

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Northern Flicker »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am All,

I am debating between buying a 2024 Camry or the Hybrid version.
Also, should I pay it in full or get an auto loan?
Have you calculated an estimate for the breakeven point for cost in miles driven? I think the hybrid will win that assessment for most drivers. The hybrid will depreciate somewhat more slowly as well.
Saluki31
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:45 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Saluki31 »

BogleAlltheWay wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:24 am
So Camrys are widely available again? If so, that's good to hear.
Gas engine Camrys seem to be plentiful around me, but hybrids are a needle in a haystack to find. I was lucky enough to find a 2024 hybrid being built. Very excited. Will be my first hybrid.
Last edited by Saluki31 on Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JerseyJim
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 10:25 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by JerseyJim »

I have a 2013 Camry hybrid and love it. Has 149,000 miles and still original parts and gets a little over 40mpg. Slightly less in the NJ winters and over 40mpg in the summers. My driving includes a combination of local and hi-way driving as well a small amount of hills. It has plenty of power and no problem getting up to speed and entering on the highway. I strongly will consider getting another Camry hybrid in the future if I need to.

JerseyJim
User avatar
just frank
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 pm
Location: Philly Metro

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by just frank »

Colorado Guy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:59 pm
First year models are generally a little risky, agreed. Toyota is generally conservative, so that is good. Still, even Edmunds states this is a huge gamble by going only hybrid in 2025.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toyota ... -only.html
Reading the article, the only place where the decision is described as 'a gamble' is the headline. In the conclusion, they simply say that Toyota like other makers is prioritizing fuel economy.

The V4 non-hybrid is underpowered and a bit pokey. Hybridization of the V4 gives bursts of horsepower to provide a nicer driving experience, while also improving fuel economy. In contrast with the V6 option, where the higher power actually hurts fuel economy.

Car and Driver ranks the Camry 4th behind Honda and Kia/Hyundai.
Colorado Guy
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Colorado Guy »

Discussion is drifting off topic. OP is trying to choose between a Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid.

The Car Care Nut is a reputable reviewer. In the attached YT video, starting at about 7 minutes, "Should you buy a hybrid". At 9:48 "why don't buy a hybrid" (section generally talking about used hybrids, not new). In that section at 10:30, he mentions the cost of a hybrid transmission replacement (if neglected or not maintained) is "scary".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5j8nJrMc8

So, OP, how do you intend to use the vehicle? City driving, mountain driving, expected mileage per year (low mileage use/long periods of storage of hybrids impacts battery lifetime), weather extremes? Noted that a Camry has a little less than 5" of ground clearance. That makes it problematic if you get 42" of snow (recent event here in Colorado).

For me personally, I have mixed feelings. For my most recent purchases, I purchased ICE powered vehicles, which are both low mileage vehicles. Would I consider a hybrid? Not with my present usage patterns.

One thing that concerns me regarding both hybrids and EVs are spontaneous lithium Ion battery fires. There are a number of YT videos on these instances, some fires on the road, others in a garage, even one video of a cargo ship entire load of vehicles catching on fire. Due to my work experience in the renewable energy field developing utility scale energy storage facilities, I have a strong sense of caution at the moment.

Choose wisely. :D
Claudia Whitten
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Claudia Whitten »

JerseyJim wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:10 pm I have a 2013 Camry hybrid and love it. Has 149,000 miles and still original parts and gets a little over 40mpg. Slightly less in the NJ winters and over 40mpg in the summers. My driving includes a combination of local and hi-way driving as well a small amount of hills. It has plenty of power and no problem getting up to speed and entering on the highway. I strongly will consider getting another Camry hybrid in the future if I need to.

JerseyJim
So am I to understand that as the battery in these vehicles deteriorates, the gas engine will be used more often and therefore the car will get fewer miles per gallon? Does the car have a light or something that says "replace battery" (EV battery)?
crefwatch
Posts: 2566
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by crefwatch »

Hey Colorado Guy, I think your post is temperate and thoughtful, not alarmist. But may I point out 3.3 Million (yes, Million) Kia and Hyundai vehicles, the VAST majority of them pure gasoline power, have been recalled (2024) and recommended for outside-only parking indefinitely. That follows the 2022 recall by BMW (!) of 917,000 vehicles for ... fire risk. It seems like your legitimate battery fire concerns may be dwarfed by gasoline fire prospects.

(I'm particularly sensitive to the outside-parking rule because that happened to my current Chevy Bolt EV. Chevy got LG to pay for my battery to be replaced, but I waited about 2 years. It looks like Kia and Hyundai owners will wait a long time for much smaller and cheaper parts.)
Colorado Guy
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Colorado Guy »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:12 am
JerseyJim wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:10 pm I have a 2013 Camry hybrid and love it. Has 149,000 miles and still original parts and gets a little over 40mpg. Slightly less in the NJ winters and over 40mpg in the summers. My driving includes a combination of local and hi-way driving as well a small amount of hills. It has plenty of power and no problem getting up to speed and entering on the highway. I strongly will consider getting another Camry hybrid in the future if I need to.

JerseyJim
So am I to understand that as the battery in these vehicles deteriorates, the gas engine will be used more often and therefore the car will get fewer miles per gallon? Does the car have a light or something that says "replace battery" (EV battery)?
"Check Engine" and/or "Check Hybrid System" lights go on, then go to a dealer/repair shop to let them test the battery (for a battery code), and/or other systems.
crefwatch
Posts: 2566
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by crefwatch »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:12 am So am I to understand that as the battery in these vehicles deteriorates, the gas engine will be used more often and therefore the car will get fewer miles per gallon? Does the car have a light or something that says "replace battery" (EV battery)?
Edited:

Claudia, it would be dishonest for me to say that traction batteries do not suffer loss of capacity over long periods of time, but Toyota Priuses have a very long track record, one which suggests that most owners have no problem with it. And there are plenty of "used" Prius batteries available for really thrifty owners who actually need one. Over three Priuses, kept over 6 years each, my wife and I have never needed a new traction battery, or "noticed" any battery capacity decline.

I'd remind you how much it costs to replace the timing belt on a new gasoline (or Hybrid) car that reaches, say, 60,000 miles. It is quite RARE for traction batteries to become unusable at 60,000 miles, almost unheard-of. And most of them have 8-year or 10-year MANUFACTURER warranties, meaning just the battery (and often the charging system. In some cases that includes the electric motor as well.)

You are right to ask this question, because the whole battery thing is new to you. But it's a case of "fear of the unknown", rather than an actual problem that afflicts any significant number of hybrid buyers. That's why I mentioned my number one query from passengers. I only keep my cars 6 to 8 years.

But there's no getting around that hybrid components make the car cost significantly more than a pure gasoline unit. It takes 5-7 years to get a gas saving payback for most people, but it depends a great deal on your actual usage, and whether it's a "Plug-In" Hybrid.
Last edited by crefwatch on Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
calmaniac
Posts: 1342
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:32 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by calmaniac »

We have a 2012 Camry hybrid, the first year Toyota sold a Camry designed to be a hybrid and not simply a retrofitted ICE.

The car has been care free and drives great. All in all a very positive experience.

Toyota has been producing hybrids in volume for ≈20 years with excellent results. There are lots of data out there on reliability.
"Pretired", working 20 h/wk. AA 75/25: 30% TSM, 19% value (VFVA/AVUV), 18% Int'l LC, 8% emerging, 25% GFund/VBTLX. Military pension ≈60% of expenses. Pension+SS@age 70 ≈100% of expenses.
cjcerny
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by cjcerny »

crefwatch wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:22 am
Claudia Whitten wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:12 am So am I to understand that as the battery in these vehicles deteriorates, the gas engine will be used more often and therefore the car will get fewer miles per gallon? Does the car have a light or something that says "replace battery" (EV battery)?
Claudia, it would be dishonest for me to say that traction batteries do not suffer loss of capacity over long periods of time, but Toyota Priuses have a very long track record, one which suggests that most owners have no problem with it. And there are plenty of "used" Prius batteries available for really thrifty owners who actually need one. Over three Priuses, kept over 6 years each, my wife and I have never needed a new traction battery, or "noticed" any battery capacity decline.

I'd remind you how much it costs to replace the timing belt on a new gasoline (or Hybrid) car that reaches, say, 60,000 miles. It is quite RARE for traction batteries to become unusual at 60,000 miles, almost unheard-of. And most of them have 8-year or 10-year MANUFACTURER warranties, meaning just the battery (and often the charging system.)

But there's no getting around that hybrid components make the car cost significantly more than a pure gasoline unit.
I have a 2013 Prius and a 2018 Prius and have had no battery issues whatsoever with either. MPG remains the same it was when I bought them. Hybrid Camry is a no brainer, as long as the price premium over the ICE Camry is not more than $2000 or so. Hybrid gets about 15mpg more than the ICE.
tibbitts
Posts: 24101
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by tibbitts »

Claudia Whitten wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:02 am Always pay in full.

So Camrys are widely available again? If so, that's good to hear.

I've had great experience with Camrys. My 2005 Camry still runs great. I can't believe an 18 year old car is still running, much less running great. The ride on that thing is so smooth that I get comments from my passengers about how pleasant it is to ride in it. After riding in my friend's Tesla (that has a horrible, bumpy ride), I understand why.

Maybe they're not making cars as well as they used to?

Before the pandemic, I got in one of the new Camrys. What I did not appreciate right away is how much leg room the center console takes up. My 2005 Camry is comfier up front. You can spread your legs out and not bump into the TV-screen center console.
The fat center console is a problem in many new cars. My 2005 model (not Camry) is very comfortable partly because of the narrower center console.

Worse yet many of the fat consoles don't have soft materials to rest your leg on, since your leg will definitely rest on it.
User avatar
calmaniac
Posts: 1342
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:32 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by calmaniac »

Colorado Guy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:58 am One thing that concerns me regarding both hybrids and EVs are spontaneous lithium Ion battery fires. There are a number of YT videos on these instances, some fires on the road, others in a garage, even one video of a cargo ship entire load of vehicles catching on fire. Due to my work experience in the renewable energy field developing utility scale energy storage facilities, I have a strong sense of caution at the moment.
• The lifetime risk of dying in a car accident is 1 in 93 (≈1%), National Safety Council.
• The annual risk of being in a car accident and landing up in an emergency room is also ≈1%, National Center for Health Statistics

....and you are worried about the risk of batteries catching fire?

Really?
"Pretired", working 20 h/wk. AA 75/25: 30% TSM, 19% value (VFVA/AVUV), 18% Int'l LC, 8% emerging, 25% GFund/VBTLX. Military pension ≈60% of expenses. Pension+SS@age 70 ≈100% of expenses.
Colorado Guy
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Colorado Guy »

calmaniac wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:45 am
Colorado Guy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:58 am One thing that concerns me regarding both hybrids and EVs are spontaneous lithium Ion battery fires. There are a number of YT videos on these instances, some fires on the road, others in a garage, even one video of a cargo ship entire load of vehicles catching on fire. Due to my work experience in the renewable energy field developing utility scale energy storage facilities, I have a strong sense of caution at the moment.
• The lifetime risk of dying in a car accident is 1 in 93 (≈1%), National Safety Council.
• The annual risk of being in a car accident and landing up in an emergency room is also ≈1%, National Center for Health Statistics

....and you are worried about the risk of batteries catching fire?

Really?
Really? You want a hybrid, then buy one. I'm not stopping you. I said a "strong sense of caution." When building a renewable energy energy storage project, we invested millions in the design and safety systems to contain the fire. It admittedly influences my thinking, interpret that as you will. Consider not just the loss of the car by itself, but the potential loss of the structures (garage/houses), one of which hit close to home recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkeF_vC7QS0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohSH4WbETls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en3PuyWQ_7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWb_phdUak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuSUsvnxEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr0uj5fChLA (ok, this is not a garage, but the container ship I alluded to earlier)

Per a simple bing chat query, 28.6% of total 2023 Toyota sales were electrified, which includes the hybrids. In 2025 Toyota will be going all in on hybrids (hence my reference to the article that Toyota is going all in on hybrids in 2025). From sales figures, there are a substantial number of people who still prefer ICE vehicle. Refer back to the OP's original question, "Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid"
Claudia Whitten
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:56 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by Claudia Whitten »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:34 am The fat center console is a problem in many new cars. My 2005 model (not Camry) is very comfortable partly because of the narrower center console.

Worse yet many of the fat consoles don't have soft materials to rest your leg on, since your leg will definitely rest on it.
I noticed that! Who are the idiots that design these things? Why is it that I can sit in a car for a few minutes and find issues like this when presumably there's an entire QA department at the auto company that managed to allow this through? Bunch of yes people? I swear companies should hire me to improve their products. I can often look at something and in a few minutes tell you what could be better.
cmr79
Posts: 1434
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by cmr79 »

Colorado Guy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:30 am
calmaniac wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:45 am
Colorado Guy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:58 am One thing that concerns me regarding both hybrids and EVs are spontaneous lithium Ion battery fires. There are a number of YT videos on these instances, some fires on the road, others in a garage, even one video of a cargo ship entire load of vehicles catching on fire. Due to my work experience in the renewable energy field developing utility scale energy storage facilities, I have a strong sense of caution at the moment.
• The lifetime risk of dying in a car accident is 1 in 93 (≈1%), National Safety Council.
• The annual risk of being in a car accident and landing up in an emergency room is also ≈1%, National Center for Health Statistics

....and you are worried about the risk of batteries catching fire?

Really?
Really? You want a hybrid, then buy one. I'm not stopping you. I said a "strong sense of caution." When building a renewable energy energy storage project, we invested millions in the design and safety systems to contain the fire. It admittedly influences my thinking, interpret that as you will. Consider not just the loss of the car by itself, but the potential loss of the structures (garage/houses), one of which hit close to home recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkeF_vC7QS0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohSH4WbETls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en3PuyWQ_7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWb_phdUak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuSUsvnxEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr0uj5fChLA (ok, this is not a garage, but the container ship I alluded to earlier)

Per a simple bing chat query, 28.6% of total 2023 Toyota sales were electrified, which includes the hybrids. In 2025 Toyota will be going all in on hybrids (hence my reference to the article that Toyota is going all in on hybrids in 2025). From sales figures, there are a substantial number of people who still prefer ICE vehicle. Refer back to the OP's original question, "Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid"
While people being killed in car fires (as opposed to being killed in a crash from the crash itself where the vehicle subsequently catches on fire too) is thankfully quite rare, the risk of fires by vehicle type seems to be hybrid > ICE > EV. So if one was disproportionately worried about the risk of a vehicle fire safety, it would be at least more logical to worry about that risk in a hybrid vehicle. It does make sense that hybrids would have higher fire risk given that they have the key flammable parts of both types of drivetrains.
User avatar
just frank
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 pm
Location: Philly Metro

Re: Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid

Post by just frank »

Colorado Guy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:58 am Discussion is drifting off topic. OP is trying to choose between a Toyota Camry vs Camry Hybrid.

.....

One thing that concerns me regarding both hybrids and EVs are spontaneous lithium Ion battery fires. There are a number of YT videos on these instances, some fires on the road, others in a garage, even one video of a cargo ship entire load of vehicles catching on fire. Due to my work experience in the renewable energy field developing utility scale energy storage facilities, I have a strong sense of caution at the moment.
The irony. Toyota is very conservative about Lithium batteries too, which is why it is still using NiMH chemistry in many/most of its hybrids.

They are cagey about which models/trims get which chemistry, but it seems the 2024 Camry hybrid gets the tried and true NiMH pack, except maybe the base trim level (since Lithium cells are now cheaper to produce).
Post Reply