Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

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catchinup
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Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

I am puzzling on how to work out an agreement between myself and my next door neighbor. We live in the city of Los Angeles.

When I purchased the house in 2009, he was already living there. There were two fences butted against each other separating our lots. He had a chain link fence on his side, and my house had a 6 ft redwood fence. I never had a survey, but based on the sidewalk market and looking at the parcel drawings, I would say both these fences are inside my property line. I never raised questions about it with him. Over the years, his chain link fence became broken down, and the redwood fence on my side has rotted.

He recently let me know he'd like to put up a cinderblock fence along the side he shares with me, and also wrapping around the side of the neighbor behind him. He already had a bid of $16k for 2-sided wall, and wanted to know would I go in with him on my side, contributing $4.5k (He says he calculated how much of the two-sided wall was along my property line and was asking me for 50% of that length). He already has cinderblock on the 3rd side, so he would have a matching wall all the way around the back yard. The quote also came from his contractor -- so he got the quote independently and I don't have a way to verify his actual cost at this point.

On the other hand, I have redwood going all the way around. I wanted to replace the fence in this area, but was thinking to replace it with redwood. I could get an entire redwood fence myself for the $4.5k he is asking to do the cinderblock. If we did cinderblock, we would never replace it again, that's true, but I might sell my house anyway in a couple of years so permanent is not really a factor for me.

Another thing I'd like is to use this as an opportunity to respect the actual lot boundaries. I was planning to get a survey.

I also feel like asking me and the other neighbor to pay for half of his project is a bit much. It's his contractor and part of a bigger project he has going on to add an ADU to his property.

I asked if he would consider a wood fence, and he said he would ask his contractor for a price, but since then did not get back to me. In the interim, I got my own estimate. It seemed like he was pretty set on the cinderblock wall though, and I need to ask him if he plans to go forward with it regardless of whether I contribute.

I'm somewhat open to having a cinderblock fence if: a) it's not inside my property line and b) assuming it's a quality job that I could paint or decorate.

How would you approach this negotiation if you were me?
testing321
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by testing321 »

I would be very inclined to pay 50% of his cinder block wall on your shared property line if you can assure that its going on the property line. You can always cover it with a vine if you don't like the looks of the cinder block.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by cheese_breath »

You've not challenged the property line in 15 years? I don't know the laws in CA, but you might want to read up on adverse possession.
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Firemenot
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Firemenot »

Definitely pay for a surveyor to mark the property line before anything goes up. You could pitch to him as avoiding any problems with either of you selling your house or dealing with a future neighbor. Having the property line correct avoids all sorts of potential future problems.
Point
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Point »

First get survey. If installing block, pay attention to natural water flow between properties. In CA you cannot block flow.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by HomeStretch »

If you prefer a wood fence because of the look, lower cost and/or it matches the other two sides of your fencing, consider (gently) declining to share the cost and install your wood fence in front of the cinderblock fence.

Or get some wood fence quotes and ask the neighbor to split that cost. Do get the property line surveyed and staked so the fence(s) end up on the appropriate property.

Personally, I would not want a mismatched fence and I don’t think cinderblock is that attractive. But I am in an area where cinderblock is not commonly used for fencing.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Areas and tastes differ, but I doubt I could ever stomach a cinder block wall. And if I didn't want one, I certainly wouldn't contribute to its cost or allow an inch of it on my property--neighborly relationships be damned!
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by SpaghettiLegs »

Sounds like you get along OK with your neighbor so that’s a good start. I would consider negotiating a lower cost on your side since wood fence is your preference. I also think a survey is a good idea for both parties just to head off any problems down the road. You can always paint the cinderblock; a cool mural or even to look like a wood fence later if you want!
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by bradinsky »

cheese_breath wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:17 pm You've not challenged the property line in 15 years? I don't know the laws in CA, but you might want to read up on adverse possession.
+1 Good point! How long has the fence been there? Was there a survey when you bought the property?
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by adamthesmythe »

Some localities have fence laws. It would be good to know what they are in OP's area.

In some places (notably the Southwest) cinderblock walls are covered with cement/ stucco and actually are very attractive.

However- if OP prefers wood- he should be able to insist that the cinderblock not be on his property.

By all means get a survey to avoid any potential disputes.
popoki
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by popoki »

If you pay the neighbor, and neighbor fails to pay the contractor, then the contractor may be able to put a lien on your property. I experienced a similar situation although it didn’t get to the point of a lien.
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tibbitts
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by tibbitts »

It seems like a survey would be a good first step in this situation.
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

Point wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:14 pm First get survey. If installing block, pay attention to natural water flow between properties. In CA you cannot block flow.
I had no idea about this. I just searched it and read about it. The topography is flat here, so shouldn't be an issue, but thanks for the heads up.
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

popoki wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:14 pm If you pay the neighbor, and neighbor fails to pay the contractor, then the contractor may be able to put a lien on your property. I experienced a similar situation although it didn’t get to the point of a lien.
yikes! thanks
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by popoki »

catchinup wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:54 pm
popoki wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:14 pm If you pay the neighbor, and neighbor fails to pay the contractor, then the contractor may be able to put a lien on your property. I experienced a similar situation although it didn’t get to the point of a lien.
yikes! thanks
I did get a separate invoice for my portion of the shared fence directly from the contractor but I should have insisted on paying the contractor. Instead I paid the neighbor.
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Bobby206
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Bobby206 »

cheese_breath wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:17 pm You've not challenged the property line in 15 years? I don't know the laws in CA, but you might want to read up on adverse possession.
I believe in California the person has to adversely possess the property AND pay property taxes on it. The latter is not likely.
Mr. Rumples
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Mr. Rumples »

First step is the survey. Then this might or might not involve not only "fence" laws but perhaps adverse possession laws. A contract needs to be drawn up to prevent future issues as owners change if there is a joint project. An attorney who specializes in land and boundary law would help prevent future drama.

Fence laws are complex and vary widely in each state. To give an idea of how complex the law is, here is VA's. It was changed after one neighbor killed another over a fence dispute. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull ... /article6/
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/tit ... chapter28/

Regarding CA and LA:

https://losangelesfencingco.com/how-clo ... erty-line/#

When I was looking at homes before I purchased this one, I simply would not even look at a home where the driveways were shared on the boundary. The houses sold, but the pool of buyers was reduced - at least by one, i.e. me.
Last edited by Mr. Rumples on Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Artsdoctor
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Artsdoctor »

I have gone through this myself, and we live in Los Angeles.

If you can afford it, the right way is to get a survey. I was really surprised when we got ours--we had a little more property than I thought! It changed the way we landscaped. It definitely will be a starting point for your plans and when it comes time to sell, it might come in handy.

Fences and walls can be shared, and they often are. If you're talking about a 6-foot height and you're on flat land, you can do pretty much whatever you want to do without a permit: it's a "garden wall." The ADU will definitely need a permit so working with him on the wall may allow you to be peripherally involved with the ADU (how close to the wall, making sure your privacy is maintained, etc.).

Cinder block walls are very easy to camouflage. You can definitely have plantings and vines, you can paint them anyway you'd like, and ours essentially disappear with decent landscaping. Plus, it keeps the peace with your neighbor which is worth an awful lot.

If it's a reasonable proposition and the survey doesn't unearth any surprises, I'd more than likely work together.
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

Mr. Rumples wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:11 pm
Regarding CA and LA:

https://losangelesfencingco.com/how-clo ... erty-line/#
"There should be at least a 3-ft gap between your house to the property line and the same goes for your neighbor."

Does that mean no homes were ever built in Los Angeles with less than 3 feet between the house and any property line on the corresponding lot?

My house is at least 12 feet from the property line in question, but the side of his house might be only 3 feet away.

He also just built an ADU, which might also be only 3 feet or less from the property line in question.

Another question: Does the 3 foot rule count for garages? Because the side of my garage is definitely less than 3 feet away from the property line in question.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by bradinsky »

catchinup wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:47 pm
Mr. Rumples wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:11 pm
Regarding CA and LA:

https://losangelesfencingco.com/how-clo ... erty-line/#
"There should be at least a 3-ft gap between your house to the property line and the same goes for your neighbor."

Does that mean no homes were ever built in Los Angeles with less than 3 feet between the house and any property line on the corresponding lot?

My house is at least 12 feet from the property line in question, but the side of his house might be only 3 feet away.

He also just built an ADU, which might also be only 3 feet or less from the property line in question.

Another question: Does the 3 foot rule count for garages? Because the side of my garage is definitely less than 3 feet away from the property line in question.
You really should have a survey done. It might be a real eye opener for both parties.
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:04 pm
catchinup wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:47 pm
Mr. Rumples wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:11 pm
Regarding CA and LA:

https://losangelesfencingco.com/how-clo ... erty-line/#
"There should be at least a 3-ft gap between your house to the property line and the same goes for your neighbor."

Does that mean no homes were ever built in Los Angeles with less than 3 feet between the house and any property line on the corresponding lot?

My house is at least 12 feet from the property line in question, but the side of his house might be only 3 feet away.

He also just built an ADU, which might also be only 3 feet or less from the property line in question.

Another question: Does the 3 foot rule count for garages? Because the side of my garage is definitely less than 3 feet away from the property line in question.
You really should have a survey done. It might be a real eye opener for both parties.
I shouldn't rule out that he didn't already do this. When I last spoke to him I didn't think to ask. The way people do things around here I wouldn't be surprised if this was not done though.
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MJS
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by MJS »

catchinup wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:53 pm
Point wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:14 pm First get survey. If installing block, pay attention to natural water flow between properties. In CA you cannot block flow.
I had no idea about this. I just searched it and read about it. The topography is flat here, so shouldn't be an issue, but thanks for the heads up.
Probably not exactly flat, unless your house floods every time it rains. :?

In California, the backyard's 1" in 10' slope frequently heads towards the back fence, but hillside houses can tend downhill. The contractor will know, or you might have a shallow pool next to the CMU wall during the next Pineapple Express. Another thing to have the surveyor check!
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HaveaNiceDay
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by HaveaNiceDay »

I would get the survey now, no reason to wait. It will come in handy for the fence and if you sell later.

Also, make sure you get a "boundary" survey where a surveyor comes out and stakes the corners. They should provide several certified copies of the survey with an engineering stamp as part of the cost.
The alternative is a "location" survey which is cheaper, but is done by looking at land records, etc and not accurate enough for your needs.

If you delay in the survey, you may come home one day and see a block fence partially built and then potentially have to discuss him moving the fence if it is on your land. So order the survey now.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Yooper »

catchinup wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:16 pm
bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:04 pm
catchinup wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:47 pm
Mr. Rumples wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:11 pm
Regarding CA and LA:

https://losangelesfencingco.com/how-clo ... erty-line/#
"There should be at least a 3-ft gap between your house to the property line and the same goes for your neighbor."

Does that mean no homes were ever built in Los Angeles with less than 3 feet between the house and any property line on the corresponding lot?

My house is at least 12 feet from the property line in question, but the side of his house might be only 3 feet away.

He also just built an ADU, which might also be only 3 feet or less from the property line in question.

Another question: Does the 3 foot rule count for garages? Because the side of my garage is definitely less than 3 feet away from the property line in question.
You really should have a survey done. It might be a real eye opener for both parties.
I shouldn't rule out that he didn't already do this. When I last spoke to him I didn't think to ask. The way people do things around here I wouldn't be surprised if this was not done though.
Key word being "you". It's money well spent and will allow you to sleep well at night. I like my neighbors and get along well with them, but even if they said they'd had a survey done, I'd follow Reagan's advice and "trust but verify" with my own survey.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by boomer_techie »

HaveaNiceDay wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:20 pm Also, make sure you get a "boundary" survey where a surveyor comes out and stakes the corners. They should provide several certified copies of the survey with an engineering stamp as part of the cost.
Hopefully the corners already have marking devices - a steel pipe, a piece of rebar, or other method. The surveyors main task will be to find these. Once they are marked/staked, take photos!
The alternative is a "location" survey which is cheaper, but is done by looking at land records, etc and not accurate enough for your needs.
Not just not accurate enough, but actually quite useless. The metes and bounds description should be part of one's property deed. There might also be a parcel map giving the description in a graphical form. You might even be able to pull this data from an online county GIS system. While legally useful, these won't tell you exactly where the boundaries are in the dirt.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by bradinsky »

Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by RickBoglehead »

bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 pm Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
Not in MA, PA, MI.....
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Alfonsia »

bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 pm Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
Not in CT. We have 3.5 acres and I couldn't tell you about where it is to and from, as it is foresty lol. If anyone wants to come and do some adverse landscaping, I'd be down for it.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Mr. Rumples »

bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 pm Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
Not in VA. I paid for mine and found lots of easements and rights of way. It was well worth the $400 a few years ago. Kind of funny that just last week, I heard a lawnmower on the side of my property thinking I did not call the yard guy. It needs moving. The county was out there cleaning out the ditch of leaves and mowing their part of grass by the road.

It's an important thing to do even in the suburbs. Its been over a decade now, but in another part of the county, Dominion Energy starting clearing out its easements from encroachments. They had a modest reimbursement fund to compensate people who had sheds, fences, even pools and so forth in the easement (pole to pole, not the lines from the pole to the house). The limit for each home was $300; that was easily exhausted. Folks had a rude awakening when they found how close they were to the houses. Dominion is in the decade(s) long process of buying these lines and it's going to be a mess in some folks yards.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

testing321 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:09 pm I would be very inclined to pay 50% of his cinder block wall on your shared property line if you can assure that its going on the property line. You can always cover it with a vine if you don't like the looks of the cinder block.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 pm Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
When I bought my house I received a survey. Later on I wanted my neighbor to repair a wall he owned that encroached on my property - we had many discussions over where the property line was. I hired an outside surveyor to mark the property lines. It turned out my neighbors retaining wall was 2 feet over my property line because a tree on his property had pushed the wall out over many years - including the time I didn’t own the house. The tree was dying.

We came to an agreement, I paid for half the wall and arranged for a contractor. The neighbor took out the tree and paid for the other half.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by NYCaviator »

catchinup wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:52 pm
On the other hand, I have redwood going all the way around. I wanted to replace the fence in this area, but was thinking to replace it with redwood. I could get an entire redwood fence myself for the $4.5k he is asking to do the cinderblock. If we did cinderblock, we would never replace it again, that's true, but I might sell my house anyway in a couple of years so permanent is not really a factor for me.
Unless you have a small yard, $4.5k for a redwood fence on 3 sides seems way too cheap. Have you actually priced it out? We have a small, city yard and did cedar... it cost upwards of $10k. We did use the metal posts for longevity, but that didn't add that much cost. I'd be inclined to get a survey and go half with your neighbor on cinderblock. More privacy, longer lasting, and seems like a good price.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by snackdog »

California, where OP resides, is governed by the CA Good Neighbor Fence Law. OP should read it and share a copy with the neighbor.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... ionNum=841

I would also talk to an attorney since CA Adverse Possession laws may mean that the neighbor now legally owns the land on their side of the fence and thus the existing fence line should be considered the property line. If so, a survey would confirm the old boundary.

https://www.levinelawyer.com/blog/under ... rty%20line.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by gotoparks »

I would also have the property surveyed. I had a townhouse and needed to replace the retainer walls on each side of my yard connecting to two neighbors. We might have had to replace the fence on both sides also. I don't remember. I hired the contractor and got the price for the work. I explained to both neighbors what needed to be done and showed them the estimate. I got a separate estimate for each side. Both agreed to pay half of their side. One neighbor at first didn't want to pay but I think I told him I was going to fix it and I would take him to small claims court. I told him I would get the two HOAs we were under to inspect, and they would say it needs to be replaced. He agreed to pay.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by dknightd »

That is the problem. You have negotiate with neighbors. And they can change. My rule of thumb is 50/50

So your neighbor wants a concrete block wall. You want a redwood fence. I would pay 50% of both, if the neighbor agrees.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by HipCoyote »

Bobby206 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:06 pm
cheese_breath wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:17 pm You've not challenged the property line in 15 years? I don't know the laws in CA, but you might want to read up on adverse possession.
I believe in California the person has to adversely possess the property AND pay property taxes on it. The latter is not likely.
Precisely...we had a similar situation in Los Angeles. You are legally correct, as I recall.

Looooong story, but we simply agreed to move the fence and let it go. People get spun up on what is "legal" but the cost of litigation is really a large part of the calculus. Its best to try to work all this out without legal haggling.

My only thought on a block wall is that in an earthquake zone, it can fall down. EQ coverage is really quite limited here, so one could end up paying a few times for a block wall.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by tibbitts »

With wood you can just remove a few screws and potentially have a 7'10" path to move equipment or something else through. Of course the equipment will be 7'11" wide but that's how it goes. Concrete is less flexible.

On the other hand, you could attach redwood to concrete for appearance purposes if you decide that's important. My experience has been that 90% of the effort in building a wood fence is in the posts and 10% in hanging the panels (at least if you buy the panels already assembled.)
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by illumination »

Just know that getting a formal survey alone could be close to $2,000. That was what I found out when I needed clarity on something. You might want to get a cheap metal detector and see if you can find the metal stakes yourself or look at some of the app options and see if the neighbor is reasonable. I had a mild "property dispute" with a neighbor that just moved in, he was basically trying to get me to pay for his landscaping problems and say a bunch of huge trees he decided to stop watering (that is irrigation was connected to) and died were my problem. Eventually the town knocked on his door and said he needed to remove HIS dead trees.

I personally would want my own fence/wall on my own determined property line. I think the cost savings sharing one with a neighbor in this situation are pretty negligible (for you).
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by pshonore »

Alfonsia wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:21 pm
bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 pm Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
Not in CT. We have 3.5 acres and I couldn't tell you about where it is to and from, as it is foresty lol. If anyone wants to come and do some adverse landscaping, I'd be down for it.
Almost every town in CT has an online GIS map. In Google, type "yourtown" GIS (without the quotes) and your local map will appear. You can zoom in, find your house and the property dimensions and lots of other info. Most CT towns now have deeds online as well, most of which include the "metes and bound descriptions" of your property. And while you are there, you may as well look at the Assessors section of the town website to see how your property is assessed.
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

illumination wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:29 am Just know that getting a formal survey alone could be close to $2,000. That was what I found out when I needed clarity on something. You might want to get a cheap metal detector and see if you can find the metal stakes yourself or look at some of the app options and see if the neighbor is reasonable. I had a mild "property dispute" with a neighbor that just moved in, he was basically trying to get me to pay for his landscaping problems and say a bunch of huge trees he decided to stop watering (that is irrigation was connected to) and died were my problem. Eventually the town knocked on his door and said he needed to remove HIS dead trees.

I personally would want my own fence/wall on my own determined property line. I think the cost savings sharing one with a neighbor in this situation are pretty negligible (for you).
I spoke to a surveyor. He asked if there was a brass coin in the sidewalk - there is. He said that meant a survey had been done previously. He said surveyors are required by LA County to file their surveys but in many cases they still don't. He searched a database while I was on the phone and said he did not find the survey record. He was quoting me $1,800 to do a survey, but I got the impression it was only for that one side of the property.

If a survey was done previously, you think there should be other markers, aside from the obvious one in the sidewalk? I'm not even sure what they would look like in the back of the property.
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

pshonore wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:50 am
Alfonsia wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:21 pm
bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 pm Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
Not in CT. We have 3.5 acres and I couldn't tell you about where it is to and from, as it is foresty lol. If anyone wants to come and do some adverse landscaping, I'd be down for it.
Almost every town in CT has an online GIS map. In Google, type "yourtown" GIS (without the quotes) and your local map will appear. You can zoom in, find your house and the property dimensions and lots of other info. Most CT towns now have deeds online as well, most of which include the "metes and bound descriptions" of your property. And while you are there, you may as well look at the Assessors section of the town website to see how your property is assessed.
Like this? I'm not sure which option I would use?
https://planning.lacounty.gov/maps-and- ... ping-apps/
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

HipCoyote wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 10:03 am
Bobby206 wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:06 pm
cheese_breath wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:17 pm You've not challenged the property line in 15 years? I don't know the laws in CA, but you might want to read up on adverse possession.
I believe in California the person has to adversely possess the property AND pay property taxes on it. The latter is not likely.
Precisely...we had a similar situation in Los Angeles. You are legally correct, as I recall.

Looooong story, but we simply agreed to move the fence and let it go. People get spun up on what is "legal" but the cost of litigation is really a large part of the calculus. Its best to try to work all this out without legal haggling.

My only thought on a block wall is that in an earthquake zone, it can fall down. EQ coverage is really quite limited here, so one could end up paying a few times for a block wall.
Yes, it was a relief for me to learn this.
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catchinup
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

snackdog wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 7:41 am
I would also talk to an attorney since CA Adverse Possession laws may mean that the neighbor now legally owns the land on their side of the fence and thus the existing fence line should be considered the property line. If so, a survey would confirm the old boundary.
The article states my neighbor would have to be paying property taxes on my lot, which is not the case. So I believe I can use this as an opportunity to right the boundary.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by pshonore »

catchinup wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:09 pm
pshonore wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:50 am
Alfonsia wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:21 pm
bradinsky wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 pm Isn’t a property survey part of the process when purchasing a property? Where we live, the survey is included in the fees charged & I’m not sure if the cost is the responsibility of the seller or buyer.
Not in CT. We have 3.5 acres and I couldn't tell you about where it is to and from, as it is foresty lol. If anyone wants to come and do some adverse landscaping, I'd be down for it.
Almost every town in CT has an online GIS map. In Google, type "yourtown" GIS (without the quotes) and your local map will appear. You can zoom in, find your house and the property dimensions and lots of other info. Most CT towns now have deeds online as well, most of which include the "metes and bound descriptions" of your property. And while you are there, you may as well look at the Assessors section of the town website to see how your property is assessed.
Like this? I'm not sure which option I would use?
https://planning.lacounty.gov/maps-and- ... ping-apps/
Thats it - click on GIS-NET. You'll have click a lot to get to the level of your property and there are several "layers" if you want to see features like wetlands, boundaries, etc. Hopefully there's some kind of tutorial there to help.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

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I have concrete block basement foundation. But I do not believe I have ever knowingly seen a concrete block wall.

Is it possible to supply a URL of a generic one so I can see what one looks like? What I presently have in my mind is not a pretty sight! I could not imagine having one between mine and my neighbor's property.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Shackleton »

vnatale wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:54 pm I have concrete block basement foundation. But I do not believe I have ever knowingly seen a concrete block wall.

Is it possible to supply a URL of a generic one so I can see what one looks like? What I presently have in my mind is not a pretty sight! I could not imagine having one between mine and my neighbor's property.
It’s very common in the desert SW (UT, NM, AZ, parts of SW CO). Here’s an example I found on Zillow: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3412 ... e=txtshare
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Circe
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by Circe »

When I bought my property, I had a survey done -- it's required for title insurance. Both are also required if one purchases with a mortgage. Surveys done before about 1960 have stone markers. Newer ones have iron spikes in the ground in the corners that can be found with a metal detector. The surveyor also leaves a pin with a little orange flag, but those don't last long.

I split the cost of removing a tree with my neighbor and also put up a fence. In both cases, I got an invoice for my portion of the tree and fence and paid the contractors directly. I think that's best.

We have to install boundary fences with 3" of clearance from the ground for water drainage. You should check your town's zoning requirements. Fences here can be built within 1" of the boundary, driveways 3' and houses 10'.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by boomer_techie »

catchinup wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:05 pm If a survey was done previously, you think there should be other markers, aside from the obvious one in the sidewalk? I'm not even sure what they would look like in the back of the property.
All the markers in my neighborhood (in California) are pieces of 1/2" galvanized pipe driven approximately flush with the ground surface. The new ones (installed about 20 years ago) are about 18" long. I do not know the length of the old ones (installed, um, wow, 100 years ago). The new ones have/had a yellow plastic plug with a number. I think the old ones used to have redwood plugs with numbers.

Sometimes you'll find a round brass disc maybe 2" in diameter, likely set in concrete, with government writing on it. This is a "monument" defining a point from which other survey points are measured.

Surveyors often drive large nails into the road surface when doing a survey. These are just temporary markers for their own use.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by catchinup »

boomer_techie wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:49 pm
catchinup wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:05 pm If a survey was done previously, you think there should be other markers, aside from the obvious one in the sidewalk? I'm not even sure what they would look like in the back of the property.
All the markers in my neighborhood (in California) are pieces of 1/2" galvanized pipe driven approximately flush with the ground surface. The new ones (installed about 20 years ago) are about 18" long. I do not know the length of the old ones (installed, um, wow, 100 years ago). The new ones have/had a yellow plastic plug with a number. I think the old ones used to have redwood plugs with numbers.

Sometimes you'll find a round brass disc maybe 2" in diameter, likely set in concrete, with government writing on it. This is a "monument" defining a point from which other survey points are measured.

Surveyors often drive large nails into the road surface when doing a survey. These are just temporary markers for their own use.
Thanks, I see the brass coin in the sidewalk but I'll have to look in the back for markers in the ground.
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Re: Negotiating with Neighbor on a Fence

Post by pshonore »

vnatale wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:54 pm I have concrete block basement foundation. But I do not believe I have ever knowingly seen a concrete block wall.

Is it possible to supply a URL of a generic one so I can see what one looks like? What I presently have in my mind is not a pretty sight! I could not imagine having one between mine and my neighbor's property.
Its quite common to put a skim coat of concrete on a block wall which can be painted or left natural to improve the look and also on foundation concrete walls for that matter
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