Mutual of Omaha Medigap G huge price increases

[jim779]

My Dad has a Medigap G policy with Mutual of Omaha. He first got in in 2019 and his monthly premiums were a little over $200 a month. He just got a letter saying that his premiums for 2024 will be $390 per month.

He is 81 and a non smoker from Pennsylvania.

This seems like a really excessive increases to me.

I just wanted to see what others thought.


Thanks

Jim

[twh]

My Dad has a Medigap G policy with Mutual of Omaha. He first got in in 2019 and his monthly premiums were a little over $200 a month. He just got a letter saying that his premiums for 2024 will be $390 per month.

He is 81 and a non smoker from Pennsylvania.

This seems like a really excessive increases to me.

I just wanted to see what others thought.


Thanks

Jim

$390/month? That sounds nuts.

You might check and see if he can change to a Plan G from another company. He'll likely have to answer and pass medical underwriting questions. Some companies have pretty comprehensive online applications you can try, for example, UHC AARP.

[GerryL]

My Dad has a Medigap G policy with Mutual of Omaha. He first got in in 2019 and his monthly premiums were a little over $200 a month. He just got a letter saying that his premiums for 2024 will be $390 per month.

He is 81 and a non smoker from Pennsylvania.

This seems like a really excessive increases to me.

I just wanted to see what others thought.


Thanks

Jim

Is this an "Attained Age" policy? These go up with age, and often by age bands. So if he has moved into a new age band, his premium would automatically go up. If everyone is seeing a premium increase in 2024, those two increases -- age and general -- would be added together. But, yes, it does seem excessive. (I'm on a G-HD plan and recently turned 75. I expect a letter any day now announcing my premium will go from $45 to $53 for 2024. Maybe higher if there is also a non-age-related increase.)

[jim779]

Thanks twh and Gerry L

I forgot to add if you go to Mutual of Omaha's website and type in his age and info it give a quote of $263 a month....pretty deceptive IMO.

I would like to know what medical underwriting questions they would ask to see if he would likely qualify.

Jim

[fabdog]

as noted above, depending on the policy he selected when he enrolled, this may be in line with other vendors.

If age attained, they go up as you age and he likely moved into a new band. Issue age pricing is higher initially but doesn't change based on age. there is also community based pricing. So understanding what he has is the first step in understanding

So it may well be a person signing up for Mutual of Omaha now who can pass the underwriting could get the premium you see on their website. I would imagine there is some fine print on that quote if you look for it

Form Medicare.gov on changing policies. What they will ask is likely pre existing conditions, etc

https://www.medicare.gov/health-drug-pl ... e-policies

Mike

[Evergreen2022]

Yeah, that’s a major increase. (Depending on PA ZIP) For 81 y/o non-tobacco there are a few lesser known companies offering Plan G for under $200 or Aetna which has basically instant underwriting for $216. Keep in mind he would have to pass medical underwriting to switch insurers. Either way $390 is very steep.

[GerryL]

Yeah, that’s a major increase. (Depending on PA ZIP) For 81 y/o non-tobacco there are a few lesser known companies offering Plan G for under $200 or Aetna which has basically instant underwriting for $216. Keep in mind he would have to pass medical underwriting to switch insurers. Either way $390 is very steep.

Some states have rules that allow people to switch between companies with no underwriting in their birth month. Oregon and California allow that, Don't know about PA.

[bberris]

Medigap rates are regulated by the state. Someone is not doing their job.

[bberris]

Yeah, that’s a major increase. (Depending on PA ZIP) For 81 y/o non-tobacco there are a few lesser known companies offering Plan G for under $200 or Aetna which has basically instant underwriting for $216. Keep in mind he would have to pass medical underwriting to switch insurers. Either way $390 is very steep.

Some states have rules that allow people to switch between companies with no underwriting in their birth month. Oregon and California allow that, Don't know about PA.

Underwriting required unless the plan stops issuing insurance.

[mhalley]

That does seem to be a huge increase. Doubtful he can move unless he could pass underwriting, but there are healthy 81yo. Perhaps moa will let him switch to their hi deductible g without underwriting?

[Zanmar]

Put mom 86 on MOH G HD last year. Her first time on a G plan. Just a small increase for 2024. NJ

[Prudence]

as noted above, depending on the policy he selected when he enrolled, this may be in line with other vendors.

If age attained, they go up as you age and he likely moved into a new band. Issue age pricing is higher initially but doesn't change based on age. there is also community based pricing. So understanding what he has is the first step in understanding

So it may well be a person signing up for Mutual of Omaha now who can pass the underwriting could get the premium you see on their website. I would imagine there is some fine print on that quote if you look for it

Form Medicare.gov on changing policies. What they will ask is likely pre existing conditions, etc
Is it possible to switch insurers and go form attained age to at issue age or community pricing?

https://www.medicare.gov/health-drug-pl ... e-policies

Mike

[twh]

Thanks twh and Gerry L

I forgot to add if you go to Mutual of Omaha's website and type in his age and info it give a quote of $263 a month....pretty deceptive IMO.

I would like to know what medical underwriting questions they would ask to see if he would likely qualify.

Jim

Go to the AARP UHC website and run though the signup dialog. You can get all the way to the end without signing up and see exactly what they are asking. This will be similar to other insurers, although in my recent experience the medical underwriting questions vary slightly.

Also, I ran across Physicians Mutual for Medicare Supplement. They have a two tiered underwriting -- one for 68 or younger and one for older. The 68 or younger is much less restrictive and I would imagine that most people pass that one. They also have an Issue Age policy which basically means they can't up your premiums more solely based on age. Of course, they will go up based on inflation.

[testing321]

My medigap G premium is going up a lot next year. I went to medicare.gov and searched medigap G policies for my age and zipcode and it turns out that my policy still has one of the lowest premiums for 2024 compared to all the others. Ditto for my wife's.

[talzara]

My Dad has a Medigap G policy with Mutual of Omaha. He first got in in 2019 and his monthly premiums were a little over $200 a month. He just got a letter saying that his premiums for 2024 will be $390 per month.

He is 81 and a non smoker from Pennsylvania.

This seems like a really excessive increases to me.

If your father purchased a Mutual of Omaha policy in Pennsylvania in 2019, it may have been one of the Medigap plans that was closed in 2020.

Mutual of Omaha is known to be a bad actor in the Medigap industry. It has a history of creating new plans with low premiums, and closing the old ones. The closed plans go into death spirals as the risk pool gets sicker.

There is a thread about this behavior. You should read the whole thread to understand what's happening, and whether your father can escape the plan without going through medical underwriting: viewtopic.php?t=390150

[talzara]

Is this an "Attained Age" policy? These go up with age, and often by age bands. So if he has moved into a new age band, his premium would automatically go up. If everyone is seeing a premium increase in 2024, those two increases -- age and general -- would be added together. But, yes, it does seem excessive. (I'm on a G-HD plan and recently turned 75. I expect a letter any day now announcing my premium will go from $45 to $53 for 2024. Maybe higher if there is also a non-age-related increase.)

Mutual of Omaha uses attained ages with 1-year bands. It would not have caused that big of a jump in premiums.

Since Mutual of Omaha is known to be a bad actor in the Medigap industry, it is more likely that the plan has been closed and is going into a death spiral. It's only been a few years, but it doesn't take that long.

[nonnie]

Is this an "Attained Age" policy? These go up with age, and often by age bands. So if he has moved into a new age band, his premium would automatically go up. If everyone is seeing a premium increase in 2024, those two increases -- age and general -- would be added together. But, yes, it does seem excessive. (I'm on a G-HD plan and recently turned 75. I expect a letter any day now announcing my premium will go from $45 to $53 for 2024. Maybe higher if there is also a non-age-related increase.)

Mutual of Omaha uses attained ages with 1-year bands. It would not have caused that big of a jump in premiums.

Since Mutual of Omaha is known to be a bad actor in the Medigap industry, it is more likely that the plan has been closed and is going into a death spiral. It's only been a few years, but it doesn't take that long.

Yep, Mutual of Omaha does this. I'm lucky that I am in California and can switch every year if I wish. 2 years ago I switched to USAA, I'm 81 and I think my policy just went up to $230. I didn't want to wait for my birthday to switch so I actually went through underwriting. I have a number of pre-existing conditions but USAA asked fairly simple questions and I passed. One was cancer in the last 2 years, I think another had something to do with heart conditions.
Each company has their own underwriting questions so don't assume they are all the same. Finally, go to the Medicare.gov website and compare policy costs for your ZIP code. In my zip code USAA and then AARP are generally the cheapest.

[Archaeologist001]

My dad just got his letter from MOO today...also 81, also tobacco free, in Ohio...went up from 214 to 254....wanted to avoid underwriting as his glaucoma is uncontrolled and has required every drop and surgery yet invented...that said...it may be back to the drawing board. Boo to MOO!

[orlandoman]

Can anyone point to any factual data to support that Mutual of Omaha uses closed/dead pools to drive premiums up, more than any other company. Information from say the last 5-10 years, seen lots of comments about this, but no factual data. FYI, I'm a MOA policyholder.

[bberris]

I would not give up on switching plans. Underwriters don't expect perfect health in the aged. Unless he had cancer, multiple surgeries, or a Part B covered home infusion, I would expect he will pass at least some plans. Hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and the like are not expensive to treat and would probably pass underwriting.

Failing that, look into Medicare advantage.

[WillRetire]

OP: that is a huge increase. I thought medigap Plan Gs were loaded up with lots of "young" folk since Plan G became the best plan money could buy after the legislation that closed Plan F plans. So, I am very surprised.

You dad has options, though. He could probably switch to a lesser coverage plan with MOO, such as Plan N or Plan G-HD. Or, as others point out, he may be able to switch to a different company if he gets through underwriting.

He can call MOO and ask what his options are. Advise him not to commit to any change just yet, because he should also call a medicare broker for advice about switching plans vs. switching companies. Bogleheads report v. good customer service with Boomer Benefits. He could also call PA's SHIP office for advice.
https://www.aging.pa.gov/aging-services ... fault.aspx

[WillRetire]

OP: One more thing... your dad doesn't have to chg medigap plans or companies within the open enrollment period; that only applies to medicare advantage and part D (rx) plans. So, no time pressure. He may pursue medigap chgs any time.

[soretired]

Have you looked at Medicare Advantage plans? Rates & benefits vary by where you live. Our monthly premium is $0.

[bradinsky]

OP: One more thing... your dad doesn't have to chg medigap plans or companies within the open enrollment period; that only applies to medicare advantage and part D (rx) plans. So, no time pressure. He may pursue medigap chgs any time.

Most require medical underwriting to change insurers. In many cases, that would be a huge barrier to change.

[Carl53]

Our experience switching Part G plans has been not what I would have expected. I tried to switch to MOO a couple years ago as my spouse was on that plan. While very healthy, I was turned down as I mentioned that I might sometime have a minor corrective surgery sometime. This summer my spouse successfully switched to MedMutual Part G (my plan G), despite having monthly $5k infusions, with the Part G plan having nearly a $1k monthly share as well as a rather expensive medical history. Neither of us were within the initial one year window. YMMV.

[Exeter]

I saw the same with my Plan N with Mutual of Omaha. I talked with my agent who explained the practice of increasing premiums for in-force policies and offering low entry premiums for new policies. Seems that most carriers do this. I'm moving to another company (Allstate) for much lower premiums but they have a very tight medical underwriting policy so one has to be in pretty good health to qualify. If you want to change any level of program or carrier, you will have to go through medical underwriting.

[twh]

Can anyone point to any factual data to support that Mutual of Omaha uses closed/dead pools to drive premiums up, more than any other company. Information from say the last 5-10 years, seen lots of comments about this, but no factual data. FYI, I'm a MOA policyholder.

Have a look at this report on Loss Ratios for Medicare Supplement policies. The report is for 2021 and lists the Loss Ratios, which is basically how much they are paying out in claims.
https://content.naic.org/sites/default/ ... report.pdf

Now look at PDF page 9. This would suggest that Mutual of Omaha does play games.You'll see the companies that sell Medicare Supplement policies listed, sorted in order of market share. Notice that companies 3 though 6 are: United Of Omaha Life Ins Co, Omaha Ins Co, Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co and United World Life Ins Co. These are all companies of Mutual of Omaha. Seems to me there would only be one reason to do it this way.

[WillRetire]

OP: One more thing... your dad doesn't have to chg medigap plans or companies within the open enrollment period; that only applies to medicare advantage and part D (rx) plans. So, no time pressure. He may pursue medigap chgs any time.

Most require medical underwriting to change insurers. In many cases, that would be a huge barrier to change.

Yes, the underwriting requirement was mentioned in my previous post and in many further up in this thread. Underwriting is not impossible in all cases, and worth investigating as pointed out by several earlier posts. We're all just trying to help the OP help his dad switch to something that works better for him and is affordable.

The main options are:
1) Switch to a different company's plan G. Go through SHIP or medicare broker to see if this is viable. Underwriting will almost certainly be required. (Edited to clarify this point.)
2) Switch to a cheaper medigap plan at MOO. Underwriting unlikely to be necessary. OP's dad would need to call MOO to find out about that. Personally, I would investigate option 1 first, then option 2.
3) Switch to a medicare advantage (MA) plan but this has risks w/respect to networks and very different approval rules compared w/original medicare+medigap which is mostly worry free coverage free from interference from an insurance company.

Since the OP may not be medicare age yet, and since medicare is complicated, my previous post which you commented on was primarily to let OP know that switching medigap is not tied to annual/open enrollment, whereas switching to MA is. Therefore, no time pressure to check into options 1 & 2.

[Stinky]

Can anyone point to any factual data to support that Mutual of Omaha uses closed/dead pools to drive premiums up, more than any other company. Information from say the last 5-10 years, seen lots of comments about this, but no factual data. FYI, I'm a MOA policyholder.

Have a look at this report on Loss Ratios for Medicare Supplement policies. The report is for 2021 and lists the Loss Ratios, which is basically how much they are paying out in claims.
https://content.naic.org/sites/default/ ... report.pdf

Now look at PDF page 9. This would suggest that Mutual of Omaha does play games.You'll see the companies that sell Medicare Supplement policies listed, sorted in order of market share. Notice that companies 3 though 6 are: United Of Omaha Life Ins Co, Omaha Ins Co, Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co and United World Life Ins Co. These are all companies of Mutual of Omaha. Seems to me there would only be one reason to do it this way.

How does this table prove anything like "nefarious" behavior?

My former employer had multiple life insurance companies within the corporate structure, all of which sold life insurance and annuities. The reasons for the different legal entities were historical in nature, and sometimes related to different companies targeting different market segments. Other insurance holding companies also have multiple individual writers of life and health insurance.

I don't think that this NAIC report "proves" anything, except that the collective MOO companies had loss ratios (that is, claims divided by premiums) that were very close to the industry average for the policies surveyed in the Page 9 table (that is, policies issued in 2018 and before).

[bradinsky]

OP: One more thing... your dad doesn't have to chg medigap plans or companies within the open enrollment period; that only applies to medicare advantage and part D (rx) plans. So, no time pressure. He may pursue medigap chgs any time.

Most require medical underwriting to change insurers. In many cases, that would be a huge barrier to change.

Yes, the underwriting requirement was mentioned in my previous post and in many further up in this thread. Underwriting is not impossible in all cases, and worth investigating as pointed out by several earlier posts. We're all just trying to help the OP help his dad switch to something that works better for him and is affordable.

The main options are:
1) Switch to a different company's plan G. Go through SHIP or medicare broker to see if this is viable. Underwriting will almost certainly be required. (Edited to clarify this point.)
2) Switch to a cheaper medigap plan at MOO. Underwriting unlikely to be necessary. OP's dad would need to call MOO to find out about that. Personally, I would investigate option 1 first, then option 2.
3) Switch to a medicare advantage (MA) plan but this has risks w/respect to networks and very different approval rules compared w/original medicare+medigap which is mostly worry free coverage free from interference from an insurance company.

Since the OP may not be medicare age yet, and since medicare is complicated, my previous post which you commented on was primarily to let OP know that switching medigap is not tied to annual/open enrollment, whereas switching to MA is. Therefore, no time pressure to check into options 1 & 2.

Sorry, didn’t see your reference to underwriting. It’s more difficult to switch insurers if you have any hint of a medical problem. Some here think you can do that at will.

[Chuckles960]

Sorry, didn’t see your reference to underwriting. It’s more difficult to switch insurers if you have any hint of a medical problem. Some here think you can do that at will.

No personal experience, but I suggest that Medigap underwriting may well work differently from other kinds of health insurance. Medicare pays for most of the cost, Medigap is just a wraparound and issuers have relatively little exposure. So you could have various medical issues and some insurers might still conclude (in some cases) that their additional risk is no big deal. No way to know except by trying it.

[bradinsky]

Sorry, didn’t see your reference to underwriting. It’s more difficult to switch insurers if you have any hint of a medical problem. Some here think you can do that at will.

No personal experience, but I suggest that Medigap underwriting may well work differently from other kinds of health insurance. Medicare pays for most of the cost, Medigap is just a wraparound and issuers have relatively little exposure. So you could have various medical issues and some insurers might still conclude (in some cases) that their additional risk is no big deal. No way to know except by trying it.

In 2019 DW & I switched from AARP/UHC “G” to Medical Mutual of Ohio “G”. MMO waived all underwriting for both of us & we saved about $550 per year total. My 2024 premium will be $176 per month. UHC continually send literature trying to lure us back. A month ago I talked to one of their agents & went through the process of finding out what rate might be available at UHC. They quoted me $376 per month. I love MMO & apparently they are available to people in Pennsylvania. Worth checking that out.

[orlandoman]

Can anyone point to any factual data to support that Mutual of Omaha uses closed/dead pools to drive premiums up, more than any other company. Information from say the last 5-10 years, seen lots of comments about this, but no factual data. FYI, I'm a MOA policyholder.

Have a look at this report on Loss Ratios for Medicare Supplement policies. The report is for 2021 and lists the Loss Ratios, which is basically how much they are paying out in claims.
https://content.naic.org/sites/default/ ... report.pdf

Now look at PDF page 9. This would suggest that Mutual of Omaha does play games.You'll see the companies that sell Medicare Supplement policies listed, sorted in order of market share. Notice that companies 3 though 6 are: United Of Omaha Life Ins Co, Omaha Ins Co, Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co and United World Life Ins Co. These are all companies of Mutual of Omaha. Seems to me there would only be one reason to do it this way.

How does this table prove anything like "nefarious" behavior?

My former employer had multiple life insurance companies within the corporate structure, all of which sold life insurance and annuities. The reasons for the different legal entities were historical in nature, and sometimes related to different companies targeting different market segments. Other insurance holding companies also have multiple individual writers of life and health insurance.

I don't think that this NAIC report "proves" anything, except that the collective MOO companies had loss ratios (that is, claims divided by premiums) that were very close to the industry average for the policies surveyed in the Page 9 table (that is, policies issued in 2018 and before).

Also, possibly:
- different companies for different sales channels, company direct vs agent
- different companies for different states, since premium approvals are often state dependent (I live in FL & in homeowner's ins for example, many ins co's, State Farm for example, set up a State Farm company just for Florida so it would be in a national pool

Again, haven't seen any documentation of 'nefarious' behavior.

[twh]

Can anyone point to any factual data to support that Mutual of Omaha uses closed/dead pools to drive premiums up, more than any other company. Information from say the last 5-10 years, seen lots of comments about this, but no factual data. FYI, I'm a MOA policyholder.

Have a look at this report on Loss Ratios for Medicare Supplement policies. The report is for 2021 and lists the Loss Ratios, which is basically how much they are paying out in claims.
https://content.naic.org/sites/default/ ... report.pdf

Now look at PDF page 9. This would suggest that Mutual of Omaha does play games.You'll see the companies that sell Medicare Supplement policies listed, sorted in order of market share. Notice that companies 3 though 6 are: United Of Omaha Life Ins Co, Omaha Ins Co, Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co and United World Life Ins Co. These are all companies of Mutual of Omaha. Seems to me there would only be one reason to do it this way.

How does this table prove anything like "nefarious" behavior?

My former employer had multiple life insurance companies within the corporate structure, all of which sold life insurance and annuities. The reasons for the different legal entities were historical in nature, and sometimes related to different companies targeting different market segments. Other insurance holding companies also have multiple individual writers of life and health insurance.

I don't think that this NAIC report "proves" anything, except that the collective MOO companies had loss ratios (that is, claims divided by premiums) that were very close to the industry average for the policies surveyed in the Page 9 table (that is, policies issued in 2018 and before).

Also, possibly:
- different companies for different sales channels, company direct vs agent
- different companies for different states, since premium approvals are often state dependent (I live in FL & in homeowner's ins for example, many ins co's, State Farm for example, set up a State Farm company just for Florida so it would be in a national pool

Again, haven't seen any documentation of 'nefarious' behavior.

That NAIC data doesn't *prove* they are a bad actor, but it does raise questions, especially given I've seen plenty of people complain about Mutual of Omaha and not so much the others. And, when you look at the 4 companies you have to wonder why? Let's take UHC for example, they are the largest and don't have but one company. The next biggest is a company that only offers plans in a few states, Illinois and Texas being included. Again, only one company. The data does raise questions and coupled with complaints may point to something more.

[twh]

Sorry, didn’t see your reference to underwriting. It’s more difficult to switch insurers if you have any hint of a medical problem. Some here think you can do that at will.

The medical underwriting questions vary from company to company. But all of them I encountered had ones such as:

"Have you been recommend by a medical professional in the last year to have a test or procedure you have not had?"
"Have you changed medications within the last 2 years?"

I mean, who hasn't gone to the doctor and not followed up on one thing or another?
And, medication changes? Come on.

[talzara]

Can anyone point to any factual data to support that Mutual of Omaha uses closed/dead pools to drive premiums up, more than any other company. Information from say the last 5-10 years, seen lots of comments about this, but no factual data. FYI, I'm a MOA policyholder.

You should read the rate filings for your state for the last 10 years. Check all four companies in the Mutual of Omaha group. You'll see which plans are closed and which ones aren't. The closed plans are the ones that are getting annual rate increases above the rate of Medicare premium increases, year after year. Some of it is already in the age factor, so you'll have to multiply.

Then read the UnitedHealthCare rate filings to see what a normal company's rate filings look like. It's very different from the Mutual of Omaha companies.

This is an open secret. It's not actually secret because the rate filings are public record, but it's also not well-known.

[orlandoman]

Can anyone point to any factual data to support that Mutual of Omaha uses closed/dead pools to drive premiums up, more than any other company. Information from say the last 5-10 years, seen lots of comments about this, but no factual data. FYI, I'm a MOA policyholder.

Have a look at this report on Loss Ratios for Medicare Supplement policies. The report is for 2021 and lists the Loss Ratios, which is basically how much they are paying out in claims.
https://content.naic.org/sites/default/ ... report.pdf

Now look at PDF page 9. This would suggest that Mutual of Omaha does play games.You'll see the companies that sell Medicare Supplement policies listed, sorted in order of market share. Notice that companies 3 though 6 are: United Of Omaha Life Ins Co, Omaha Ins Co, Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co and United World Life Ins Co. These are all companies of Mutual of Omaha. Seems to me there would only be one reason to do it this way.

How does this table prove anything like "nefarious" behavior?

My former employer had multiple life insurance companies within the corporate structure, all of which sold life insurance and annuities. The reasons for the different legal entities were historical in nature, and sometimes related to different companies targeting different market segments. Other insurance holding companies also have multiple individual writers of life and health insurance.

I don't think that this NAIC report "proves" anything, except that the collective MOO companies had loss ratios (that is, claims divided by premiums) that were very close to the industry average for the policies surveyed in the Page 9 table (that is, policies issued in 2018 and before).

Also, possibly:
- different companies for different sales channels, company direct vs agent
- different companies for different states, since premium approvals are often state dependent (I live in FL & in homeowner's ins for example, many ins co's, State Farm for example, set up a State Farm company just for Florida so it would be in a national pool

Again, haven't seen any documentation of 'nefarious' behavior.

That NAIC data doesn't *prove* they are a bad actor, but it does raise questions, especially given I've seen plenty of people complain about Mutual of Omaha and not so much the others. And, when you look at the 4 companies you have to wonder why? Let's take UHC for example, they are the largest and don't have but one company. The next biggest is a company that only offers plans in a few states, Illinois and Texas being included. Again, only one company. The data does raise questions and coupled with complaints may point to something more.

I looked at a few random pages on the same above report on page 181 United Healthcare policies are listed 5 times, United Healthcare Co of NY, United Healthcare of AL, United Healthcare of AZ, United Healthcare Insurance Co. & United Healthcare Ins. Co. of America . I think it's probably best to agree we're really not sure.

[mhalley]

I have MOO part G and I can’t find any actual nefarious activity in a lot of google searching. Links to such reports would be great.

[orlandoman]

Live in FL & I have supplement N with Mutual of Omaha. Got a 2024 rate increase of 2.5% starting in January.

My wife who is 7 years younger has Plan N with United Healthcare got a rate increase in June of 5.6%.

Seems my MOA rate increases are 50% of United Healthcare's.

[talzara]

I have MOO part G and I can’t find any actual nefarious activity in a lot of google searching. Links to such reports would be great.

I already explained where to get this data: viewtopic.php?p=7553395#p7553395

That's why it is an open secret. If there were a report, then it would be well-known. It wouldn't be an open secret anymore.

[twh]

The OP's father is 81 and his new rate for MOO Plan G is $390/month. Seems excessive to me, especially as it started at $200 in 2019 and the OP can go to the MOO website and is quoted $263.

[talzara]

I looked at a few random pages on the same above report on page 181 United Healthcare policies are listed 5 times, United Healthcare Co of NY, United Healthcare of AL, United Healthcare of AZ, United Healthcare Insurance Co. & United Healthcare Ins. Co. of America . I think it's probably best to agree we're really not sure.

Page 181 is part of the company index. Every NAIC market share report has a company index at the back.

The market share data is at the front of the report.

Code: Select all

UnitedHealthcare Ins Co          2,879,431,744
Golden Rule Ins Co                  12,703,337
Pacificare Life & Hlth Ins Co        7,248,828
Sierra Hlth & Life Ins Co Inc        5,845,336
United Hlthcare of AL Inc              611,621
United Hlthcare of AZ Inc                6,401
Mid West Natl Life Ins Co Of TN          3,528
Natl Foundation Life Ins Co              3,391

99% of UnitedHealth Group's Medigap business is in one company. There are three other companies with about 1% in total, and the rest are in run-off.

UnitedHealthcare receives billions of dollars in Medigap premiums each year, and UnitedHealthcare of Arizona receives thousands of dollars each year. When the last policyholder dies, UnitedHealthcare of Arizona will have zero premiums, and the Arizona subsidiary will be out of the Medigap business.

Mutual of Omaha looks very different. Mutual of Omaha has similar market share for all four companies. That's because it's rotating between the four companies to close Medigap plans and open new ones. In one state, Mutual of Omaha is the open company, and the other three are closed. In another state, United of Omaha Life is the open company, and the other three are closed.

Any one of the four companies could be on top in the national market share rankings. It depends on which companies are open in which states, and where they are in the cycle. In each state, a Mutual of Omaha company will be the largest shortly after its plans close. After a few years, the rate increases will make the plan unaffordable, and the company that's still open will become the largest one in that state.

It's more complicated than this because there could be more than four plans, and each Medigap letter plan can get a different rate increase, but this is the simple version of what Mutual of Omaha is doing.

[ModifiedDuration]

Yeah, Mutual of Omaha is known as being the absolute worst of the Bad Actors, closing pools and then jacking up the rates. They end up having multiple closed pools through different subsidiaries in some states.

Aetna and Cigna are two other Bad Actors.

Unfortunately, Pennsylvania does not have a Birthday Rule or Anniversary Rule.

I would still contact a broker to see if they know of another company that they think might let your father pass medical underwriting.

[orlandoman]

I looked at a few random pages on the same above report on page 181 United Healthcare policies are listed 5 times, United Healthcare Co of NY, United Healthcare of AL, United Healthcare of AZ, United Healthcare Insurance Co. & United Healthcare Ins. Co. of America . I think it's probably best to agree we're really not sure.

Page 181 is part of the company index. Every NAIC market share report has a company index at the back.

The market share data is at the front of the report.

Code: Select all

UnitedHealthcare Ins Co          2,879,431,744
Golden Rule Ins Co                  12,703,337
Pacificare Life & Hlth Ins Co        7,248,828
Sierra Hlth & Life Ins Co Inc        5,845,336
United Hlthcare of AL Inc              611,621
United Hlthcare of AZ Inc                6,401
Mid West Natl Life Ins Co Of TN          3,528
Natl Foundation Life Ins Co              3,391

99% of UnitedHealth Group's Medigap business is in one company. There are three other companies with about 1% in total, and the rest are in run-off.

UnitedHealthcare receives billions of dollars in Medigap premiums each year, and UnitedHealthcare of Arizona receives thousands of dollars each year. When the last policyholder dies, UnitedHealthcare of Arizona will have zero premiums, and the Arizona subsidiary will be out of the Medigap business.

Mutual of Omaha looks very different. Mutual of Omaha has similar market share for all four companies. That's because it's rotating between the four companies to close Medigap plans and open new ones. In one state, Mutual of Omaha is the open company, and the other three are closed. In another state, United of Omaha Life is the open company, and the other three are closed.

Any one of the four companies could be on top in the national market share rankings. It depends on which companies are open in which states, and where they are in the cycle. In each state, a Mutual of Omaha company will be the largest shortly after its plans close. After a few years, the rate increases will make the plan unaffordable, and the company that's still open will become the largest one in that state.

It's more complicated than this because there could be more than four plans, and each Medigap letter plan can get a different rate increase, but this is the simple version of what Mutual of Omaha is doing.

Thanks, for the further explanation, makes sense.

[nonnie]

Sorry, didn’t see your reference to underwriting. It’s more difficult to switch insurers if you have any hint of a medical problem. Some here think you can do that at will.

The medical underwriting questions vary from company to company. But all of them I encountered had ones such as:

"Have you been recommend by a medical professional in the last year to have a test or procedure you have not had?"
"Have you changed medications within the last 2 years?"

I mean, who hasn't gone to the doctor and not followed up on one thing or another?
And, medication changes? Come on.

I am 95% certain that USAA did not ask such broad-based questions as this. Contact the insurance company and ask what their underwriting questions are.

[HappyRetiree]

The medicare website quotes a price for a Pittsburgh zip code for 2024 with Mutual of Omaha at 263.00 for an 81 male non-smoker. I thought that you were supposed to be able to go by the medicare website but I really don't know much about it. My husband has Mutual of Omaha Plan G but he is younger and in a different state. They are always sending info for cancer insurance and extra hospital insurance, maybe these could be included in your dad's policy?? Just trying to think of why it would be higher than the medicare website.

[jim779]

Thanks so much for all of the great replies!

This has given me a lot of grief. I took a lot of time and put a lot of thought into helping my Dad get what at the time I thought was good insurance. And to see him get gouged like this is awful.

My Dad other than having an enlarged prostate is in good health. But I know how medical underwriting is. Before obamacare I went through it myself.

I don't think I would want to try to get another policy with MOO after this I just don't trust them and would never recommend them.

I talked to my Dad about it and he might like to try the AARP G plan. I would like to get him a paper application if I could to see how bad the underwriting is. But I don;t know if they will even send a paper application.

[twh]

Thanks so much for all of the great replies!

This has given me a lot of grief. I took a lot of time and put a lot of thought into helping my Dad get what at the time I thought was good insurance. And to see him get gouged like this is awful.

My Dad other than having an enlarged prostate is in good health. But I know how medical underwriting is. Before obamacare I went through it myself.

I don't think I would want to try to get another policy with MOO after this I just don't trust them and would never recommend them.

I talked to my Dad about it and he might like to try the AARP G plan. I would like to get him a paper application if I could to see how bad the underwriting is. But I don;t know if they will even send a paper application.

You don't need a paper application. Go here and run though the application. There is no obligation. I must have done more than a half dozen before I made my decision. From my experience, since he is grandfathered into Plan F, getting into Plan G at AARP UHC may not be doable.

https://www.aarpmedicareplans.com/

[rossington]

Thanks twh and Gerry L

I forgot to add if you go to Mutual of Omaha's website and type in his age and info it give a quote of $263 a month....pretty deceptive IMO.

I would like to know what medical underwriting questions they would ask to see if he would likely qualify.

Jim

(Using a Pittsburgh zip code):
It doesn't appear that the medicare.gov policy prices as well as the linked MOO prices are for 2024. Everything still reflects 2023 pricing.

medicare.gov:
$164.90 part B premium

Plan G from MOO website:
$262.78
per month
How this plan works:
Our most popular plan, Plan G helps you pay the Medicare Part A deductible ($1,600 in 2023), coinsurance and other costs incurred from Medicare Part A.
However, it does not help you pay all costs, you still need to pay the Medicare Part B deductible ($226 in 2023) before Plan G begins paying benefits...etc.

[nonnie]

Linked below is a pretty good article about medical underwriting and the questions described are pretty much what I recall USAA asked.

https://omahainsurancesolutions.com/med ... erwriting/