Forced dynamic currency conversion

[stocknoob4111]

Last few days in Switzerland, landed at my hotel in Zurich this morning and had an incident. The charge was just a few francs 7.5 CHF for the city tax as I had already prepaid for my hotel. Guy whips out the machine, it offers me CHF or USD, I choose CHF and the selection is totally ignored and it posts to my bank as USD (with a 4% markup).

I tell the guy about it and he proceeds to give me some BS about how my bank is responsible for that amount and their establishment charged only CHF 7.50 (charge posted as 8.83 USD which is 1.177 and the current exchange rate i've been getting in the last 2 weeks consistently has been 1.12 or so). I told him no - it is supposed to honor the CHF and my CC has no markup (Chase Sapphire Reserve) and it has dynamically upconverted the amount on his end without respecting my choice. It is just futile to get him to understand what I am saying as he keeps insisting that it's my bank and not their system.

The diff in this case is only about 43 cents but I felt cheated and that is the issue and trying to BS me made me even more aggravated.

How do I handle this? Call Chase and dispute the transaction saying I did not choose the USD option and it charged me incorrectly? This is the only instance that this has happened, all my other transactions throughout my vacation posted correctly as CHF. This is downright shady. The hotel isn't that small either.

[dukeblue219]

Are you on vacation? Forget about it and enjoy your time in Switzerland!

[crefwatch]

I agree that it is pointless to do something about a tiny transaction in the past. You may wish to ask other people who seem reliable to give you comments on that situation in Switzerland today. Also, you may want to refuse to be stampeeded into responding to POS terminal prompts. That means trying to make such transactions when there will not be a line of 15 people behind you.

I certainly have had similar experiences, including having DCC on my internet-advance-room-payment, without my permission.

It's almost reassuring when an ATM or the terminal asks you (paraphrased) "Do you want to take the risky, un-guaranteed, automated conversion?", which of course, you DO! I would also point out that on POS terminals, where the button you are pressing may actually be labelled "F3" or something like that, can be PHYSICALLY related to the DCC offers on a single or double line of text just above the Function keys. I'm not excusing them, but it takes some skill to respond to a prompt that involves PHYSICAL placement of the buttons, rather than "USD:F3 CHF:F5", which is much clearer.

[protagonist]

Last few days in Switzerland, landed at my hotel in Zurich this morning and had an incident. The charge was just a few francs 7.5 CHF for the city tax as I had already prepaid for my hotel. Guy whips out the machine, it offers me CHF or USD, I choose CHF and the selection is totally ignored and it posts to my bank as USD (with a 4% markup).

I tell the guy about it and he proceeds to give me some BS about how my bank is responsible for that amount and their establishment charged only CHF 7.50 (charge posted as 8.83 USD which is 1.177 and the current exchange rate i've been getting in the last 2 weeks consistently has been 1.12 or so). I told him no - it is supposed to honor the CHF and my CC has no markup (Chase Sapphire Reserve) and it has dynamically upconverted the amount on his end without respecting my choice. It is just futile to get him to understand what I am saying as he keeps insisting that it's my bank and not their system.

The diff in this case is only about 43 cents but I felt cheated and that is the issue and trying to BS me made me even more aggravated.

How do I handle this? Call Chase and dispute the transaction saying I did not choose the USD option and it charged me incorrectly? This is the only instance that this has happened, all my other transactions throughout my vacation posted correctly as CHF. This is downright shady. The hotel isn't that small either.

When I was younger I would have called Chase out of a call for justice, even if the call alone cost me over 43 cents.
These days I would probably complain to my wife about it and then get over it and go for a hike in the mountains.
Life is too short.

"Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking I had something to protect
Good and bad, I defined these terms quite clear, no doubt, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now"

- My Back Pages, Bob Dylan, 1963, more or less or exactly, at the age of about 21. He matured quicker than I did.

[Watty]

How do I handle this?

I may be in the minority here but when I am traveling I get local cash and pay small amounts in cash instead of with a credit card. When I am traveling I pretty much pay cash for anything that is less than $25.

I got in the habit of doing that before credit cards had chips in them when it was much easier for them to be compromised so the less you used it the less chance there was that it would be compromised.

Are you on vacation? Forget about it and enjoy your time in Switzerland!

+1000

If you divide the cost of the trip by the number of minutes you will be awake you have likely already wasted more time worrying about it than it is worth.

When you get home you can mention this in a review of the hotel if you want.

There is also a non-zero chance that pressed the wrong button and it was your fault so keep that in mind.

[02nz]

I agree that for such a small amount I wouldn't sweat it.

However, just a few months ago I had the experience that, at a car rental return at Dublin airport, the bill was presented to me with DCC already having been chosen. It was a difference of maybe $20. I almost "let it go" as I had a flight to catch, and going to the counter to escalate the issue meant walking in the rain. But I went to the counter and insisted on their fixing it, which they did - the transaction came through in euros. However, they're no doubt making many thousands because most people don't bother (if they even know), esp. as most have a flight to catch.

In one instance almost a decade ago where the merchant (a hotel in India) refused to fix DCC that I didn't ask for, I took a picture of the receipt and wrote on it that I refused DCC. I used this to later dispute the charge with my credit card; IIRC they did reverse the charge and the merchant put through a new charge without DCC.

On occasion I've gotten a printed bill with boxes to check to be charged in local currency or USD with DCC. I always take a picture of the signed receipt with the box checked for local currency, as at least once they ignored my choice and charged in USD.

[stocknoob4111]

I have decided that I am going to leave a zero star review for this hotel on ALL websites I can find my hands on clearly highlighting that they are scamming people with the conversions. Then I am going to call Chase and dispute the amount for the 43 cents. I simply don't want to pay what I don't owe.

In addition, all the hotel had to do is apologize for the error and offer some small comp, I would've probably turned it down anyway and just forgotten about the whole thing. On the other hand, the hotel decided to be adversarial with me, acting like I have no idea what the heck I am talking about, insisting that my bank is the one responsible and they have not done anything wrong at all. Compared to my hotel bill what is a few cents for the hotel, chump change? This is ridiculous.

It's not about the money, I cannot excuse bad behavior and cheating. Perhaps this will cause some effect on the establishment and they will think twice about how they treat their customers. This is a real shame because the hotel itself is really nice and I would've rated it 5 stars otherwise.

There is also a non-zero chance that pressed the wrong button and it was your fault so keep that in mind.

Not possible as when presented with the CHF and USD options I went over the menu with the hotel staff very carefully, explicitly said I want to be charged in CHF, then confirmed the button I need to press, and then he said "You can press 1 for CHF" which when I checked was the button under the CHF displayed. I did not breeze through it, I am pretty careful with DCC. Besides I did hundreds of transactions here, in 75% of the cases I did have the DCC options and never had any issue being charged in local at all.

I'll post an update on how the DCC dispute went for anyone else who is curious.

[ekid]

" I am pretty careful with DCC"

I believe that.

" post an update on how the DCC dispute went for anyone else who is curious."

Yes, I am. Not expecting that in SW. But maybe they are more familiar with cash? (Germany has a cash preference)

[erp]

Last few days in Switzerland, landed at my hotel in Zurich this morning and had an incident. The charge was just a few francs 7.5 CHF for the city tax as I had already prepaid for my hotel. Guy whips out the machine, it offers me CHF or USD, I choose CHF and the selection is totally ignored and it posts to my bank as USD (with a 4% markup).

Could you have pressed the wrong button? (ie either remembering it wrong now or because the wording tricked you into pressing the opposite button you intended, a common trick supposedly) Do you have a paper receipt showing what should have been charged?

As a possible test, you could go down and buy a candy bar twice, choosing different buttons, then wait and see if the charges show up differently.

[02nz]

I have decided that I am going to leave a zero star review for this hotel on ALL websites I can find my hands on clearly highlighting that they are scamming people with the conversions. Then I am going to call Chase and dispute the amount for the 43 cents. I simply don't want to pay what I don't owe.

In addition, all the hotel had to do is apologize for the error and offer some small comp, I would've probably turned it down anyway and just forgotten about the whole thing. On the other hand, the hotel decided to be adversarial with me, acting like I have no idea what the heck I am talking about, insisting that my bank is the one responsible and they have not done anything wrong at all. Compared to my hotel bill what is a few cents for the hotel, chump change? This is ridiculous.

It's not about the money, I cannot excuse bad behavior and cheating. Perhaps this will cause some effect on the establishment and they will think twice about how they treat their customers. This is a real shame because the hotel itself is really nice and I would've rated it 5 stars otherwise.

There is also a non-zero chance that pressed the wrong button and it was your fault so keep that in mind.

Not possible as when presented with the CHF and USD options I went over the menu with the hotel staff very carefully, explicitly said I want to be charged in CHF, then confirmed the button I need to press, and then he said "You can press 1 for CHF" which when I checked was the button under the CHF displayed. I did not breeze through it, I am pretty careful with DCC. Besides I did hundreds of transactions here, in 75% of the cases I did have the DCC options and never had any issue being charged in local at all.

I'll post an update on how the DCC dispute went for anyone else who is curious.

Do you have a signed receipt that shows only the local currency (and no DCC)?

[Cruise]

Last few days in Switzerland, landed at my hotel in Zurich this morning and had an incident. The charge was just a few francs 7.5 CHF for the city tax as I had already prepaid for my hotel. Guy whips out the machine, it offers me CHF or USD, I choose CHF and the selection is totally ignored and it posts to my bank as USD (with a 4% markup).

I tell the guy about it and he proceeds to give me some BS about how my bank is responsible for that amount and their establishment charged only CHF 7.50 (charge posted as 8.83 USD which is 1.177 and the current exchange rate i've been getting in the last 2 weeks consistently has been 1.12 or so). I told him no - it is supposed to honor the CHF and my CC has no markup (Chase Sapphire Reserve) and it has dynamically upconverted the amount on his end without respecting my choice. It is just futile to get him to understand what I am saying as he keeps insisting that it's my bank and not their system.

The diff in this case is only about 43 cents but I felt cheated and that is the issue and trying to BS me made me even more aggravated.

How do I handle this? Call Chase and dispute the transaction saying I did not choose the USD option and it charged me incorrectly? This is the only instance that this has happened, all my other transactions throughout my vacation posted correctly as CHF. This is downright shady. The hotel isn't that small either.

Wow. This exact same thing happened to a guy on Flyertalk! Small world!

Want to name and shake the hotel?

[EnjoyIt]

I have decided that I am going to leave a zero star review for this hotel on ALL websites I can find my hands on clearly highlighting that they are scamming people with the conversions. Then I am going to call Chase and dispute the amount for the 43 cents. I simply don't want to pay what I don't owe.

In addition, all the hotel had to do is apologize for the error and offer some small comp, I would've probably turned it down anyway and just forgotten about the whole thing. On the other hand, the hotel decided to be adversarial with me, acting like I have no idea what the heck I am talking about, insisting that my bank is the one responsible and they have not done anything wrong at all. Compared to my hotel bill what is a few cents for the hotel, chump change? This is ridiculous.

It's not about the money, I cannot excuse bad behavior and cheating. Perhaps this will cause some effect on the establishment and they will think twice about how they treat their customers. This is a real shame because the hotel itself is really nice and I would've rated it 5 stars otherwise.

There is also a non-zero chance that pressed the wrong button and it was your fault so keep that in mind.

Not possible as when presented with the CHF and USD options I went over the menu with the hotel staff very carefully, explicitly said I want to be charged in CHF, then confirmed the button I need to press, and then he said "You can press 1 for CHF" which when I checked was the button under the CHF displayed. I did not breeze through it, I am pretty careful with DCC. Besides I did hundreds of transactions here, in 75% of the cases I did have the DCC options and never had any issue being charged in local at all.

I'll post an update on how the DCC dispute went for anyone else who is curious.

Do you really have that much free time?

[kenai]

As others have said, I would just let it go and enjoy your vacation. I understand the principle of it all but this 43 cents is now living in your mind rent-free. It will probably cost much more in time and effort to correct this wrong during your vacation if it hasn’t already.

[Doctor Rhythm]

I think one of the prequels had Yoda explain how a 43 cent overcharge lead a justice-seeking Padawan to the Dark Side of the Force.

Actually, it reminds me of an incident from three decades ago when spouse and I were in a heated negotiation with a car dealership. We walked out, went to a fast food restaurant for lunch, and still in aggression-mode, berated the poor cashier for only having last week’s free Batman Returns plastic cup when their display clearly advertised the current week’s item.

[JoMoney]

I think one of the prequels had Yoda explain how a 43 cent overcharge lead a justice-seeking Padawan to the Dark Side of the Force.

That certainly sounds like one of the prequel story lines.
Hopefully OP learned a lesson, and will stop taking vacations. ... I joke, but unfortunately I know all too well that a 43 cent charge done incorrectly is exactly the kind of injustice that would taint the entire trip for me.

[pizzy]

Biting my tongue… biting my tongue… biting my tongue…

[czaj]

Based on my experience, due to the amount in question (43 cents), I am sure Chase will just eat the cost and give you the 43 cents.

[Chuckles960]

As a possible test, you could go down and buy a candy bar twice, choosing different buttons, then wait and see if the charges show up differently.

But candy bars cost more than 43 cents.

[seawolf21]

Last few days in Switzerland, landed at my hotel in Zurich this morning and had an incident. The charge was just a few francs 7.5 CHF for the city tax as I had already prepaid for my hotel. Guy whips out the machine, it offers me CHF or USD, I choose CHF and the selection is totally ignored and it posts to my bank as USD (with a 4% markup).

I tell the guy about it and he proceeds to give me some BS about how my bank is responsible for that amount and their establishment charged only CHF 7.50 (charge posted as 8.83 USD which is 1.177 and the current exchange rate i've been getting in the last 2 weeks consistently has been 1.12 or so). I told him no - it is supposed to honor the CHF and my CC has no markup (Chase Sapphire Reserve) and it has dynamically upconverted the amount on his end without respecting my choice. It is just futile to get him to understand what I am saying as he keeps insisting that it's my bank and not their system.

The diff in this case is only about 43 cents but I felt cheated and that is the issue and trying to BS me made me even more aggravated.

How do I handle this? Call Chase and dispute the transaction saying I did not choose the USD option and it charged me incorrectly? This is the only instance that this has happened, all my other transactions throughout my vacation posted correctly as CHF. This is downright shady. The hotel isn't that small either.

Was not offered DCC (in this case ignored) is a valid chargeback reason. There's a code for that.

[stocknoob4111]

Based on my experience, due to the amount in question (43 cents), I am sure Chase will just eat the cost and give you the 43 cents.

Yeah, that's unfortunate. The spirit of this thread wasn't to debate whether it is worth the time pursuing 43 cents but rather how to handle a forced DCC situation. This could've been my entire hotel bill for example resulting in an upcharge of over $100.

My take on correct protocol is that whenever a customer notifies the establishment of a DCC error right then and there - i.e. I did not agree to DCC, the establishment has an obligation to reverse/cancel the original transaction and reapply the charge in the correct currency.

In my case the establishment is insisting that the charge was in fact in CHF. The receipt clearly has a CHF amount, an exchange rate used, a USD amount, a markup percentage and a text that says "Conversion provided by Worldline". Clearly this transaction was upconverted to USD using DCC and the clown I was having an argument with is incapable of even understanding something so simple. A pure CHF transaction does not have a USD value on the receipt, that would be just odd. Guy is telling me I am "wrong" and he has been in the hotel industry for 20 years and knows better.

[plmd]

I had a similar situation when paying my restaurant bill in Zurich several years ago. I saw that the restaurant worker selected USD for me. When I objected, he told me that his boss requires them to choose that option. I didn’t have any cash on me, and I was with my young kids who were 1 and 4 at the time, so I wasn’t about to run to find an ATM. I just reluctantly paid with the DCC and will never go back to that restaurant again. I thought about disputing the charge but decided that it wasn’t worth my time, since my cash back or points probably offset the DCC fee.

[sad2]

Last few days in Switzerland, landed at my hotel in Zurich this morning and had an incident. The charge was just a few francs 7.5 CHF for the city tax as I had already prepaid for my hotel. Guy whips out the machine, it offers me CHF or USD, I choose CHF and the selection is totally ignored and it posts to my bank as USD (with a 4% markup).

I tell the guy about it and he proceeds to give me some BS about how my bank is responsible for that amount and their establishment charged only CHF 7.50 (charge posted as 8.83 USD which is 1.177 and the current exchange rate i've been getting in the last 2 weeks consistently has been 1.12 or so). I told him no - it is supposed to honor the CHF and my CC has no markup (Chase Sapphire Reserve) and it has dynamically upconverted the amount on his end without respecting my choice. It is just futile to get him to understand what I am saying as he keeps insisting that it's my bank and not their system.

The diff in this case is only about 43 cents but I felt cheated and that is the issue and trying to BS me made me even more aggravated.

How do I handle this? Call Chase and dispute the transaction saying I did not choose the USD option and it charged me incorrectly? This is the only instance that this has happened, all my other transactions throughout my vacation posted correctly as CHF. This is downright shady. The hotel isn't that small either.

I completely agree with you and would spend the time to write poor reviews of the establishment and dispute fraudulent activity. As you say, it is the principle of the matter. And by you taking these steps, you are helping downstream future customers not get scammed. At least that is the hope. I’ve been a victim of this scam in Switzerland as well. A shame because the country is overall very well run, beautiful, and a pleasure to travel in.

[Nate79]

No one cares about reviews. Most are fake anyways.

[MishkaWorries]

This is getting to be "a thing". I'm hearing more and more stories about forced DCC.

Last time we were in Paris we stopped at a cheese shop in a heavy tourist area. There was a handwritten note next to the credit card machine that said all foreign cards will be charged in their home currency using DCC. Fortunately, we had euros and paid in cash.

[EnjoyIt]

Based on my experience, due to the amount in question (43 cents), I am sure Chase will just eat the cost and give you the 43 cents.

Yeah, that's unfortunate. The spirit of this thread wasn't to debate whether it is worth the time pursuing 43 cents but rather how to handle a forced DCC situation. This could've been my entire hotel bill for example resulting in an upcharge of over $100.

My take on correct protocol is that whenever a customer notifies the establishment of a DCC error right then and there - i.e. I did not agree to DCC, the establishment has an obligation to reverse/cancel the original transaction and reapply the charge in the correct currency.

In my case the establishment is insisting that the charge was in fact in CHF. The receipt clearly has a CHF amount, an exchange rate used, a USD amount, a markup percentage and a text that says "Conversion provided by Worldline". Clearly this transaction was upconverted to USD using DCC and the clown I was having an argument with is incapable of even understanding something so simple. A pure CHF transaction does not have a USD value on the receipt, that would be just odd. Guy is telling me I am "wrong" and he has been in the hotel industry for 20 years and knows better.

Believe me, the principle of the issue makes sense and I agree with you. The problem is that even if you go through all your efforts, you will receive 43 cents and the establishment will do nothing differently.

[student]

This is getting to be "a thing". I'm hearing more and more stories about forced DCC.

Last time we were in Paris we stopped at a cheese shop in a heavy tourist area. There was a handwritten note next to the credit card machine that said all foreign cards will be charged in their home currency using DCC. Fortunately, we had euros and paid in cash.

Do stores get extra money if one uses DCC? Perhaps they pay a smaller fee? I am trying to understand what is in it for them. I know what it is in it for the banks.

[czaj]

This is getting to be "a thing". I'm hearing more and more stories about forced DCC.

Last time we were in Paris we stopped at a cheese shop in a heavy tourist area. There was a handwritten note next to the credit card machine that said all foreign cards will be charged in their home currency using DCC. Fortunately, we had euros and paid in cash.

Do stores get extra money if one uses DCC? Perhaps they pay a smaller fee? I am trying to understand what is in it for them. I know what it is in it for the banks.

According to DoC, the merchant gets to set the exchange rate.

[student]

This is getting to be "a thing". I'm hearing more and more stories about forced DCC.

Last time we were in Paris we stopped at a cheese shop in a heavy tourist area. There was a handwritten note next to the credit card machine that said all foreign cards will be charged in their home currency using DCC. Fortunately, we had euros and paid in cash.

Do stores get extra money if one uses DCC? Perhaps they pay a smaller fee? I am trying to understand what is in it for them. I know what it is in it for the banks.

According to DoC, the merchant gets to set the exchange rate.

Thanks for the info.

[EverydayWallSt]

I live in Europe and also use a CSR card. In my experience, in Portugal, DCC conversion has only (suddenly!) been a frequent question in the last month. It depends on the brand and version of the card reader machine. A couple of the banks here must have rolled out a software update in august to ask about DCC. Most merchants / waiters etc have no idea. Here, it always asks TWO questions. 1) do you want to pay in USD or EUR. Press 1 for USD and 2 for EUR. You select 2 (EUR). Then it asks, “are you sure you want to reject conversion?” And had 1 for accept and 2 for reject.

In my experience, friendly waiters often go, “oh you should pay in euros - it’s cheaper” and select EUR on the first question. And then 75% of the time they accidentally choose “accept conversion” on the next one, and I get stuck with the 5% up charge. It is what it is. I’ve decided to try to be more careful to try to remember to hold the machine / hit the buttons myself when paying. It’s generally just been an English-language misunderstanding.

[bd7]

In case nobody has mentioned it, you can avoid the DCC issue altogether by using AMEX. Unless the Visa/MC flavor cards figure out a way for me to opt out of DCC entirely (so that it never, ever even gets offered to me, or at least that option is overridden later in the process or they reimburse me the difference) they will continue to be the third thing that I pull out of my wallet when travelling. 1) AMEX 2) cash 3) MC/Visa

I suspect the merchants especially like and justify DCC because they can make back their merchant fees and then some.

[talzara]

How do I handle this? Call Chase and dispute the transaction saying I did not choose the USD option and it charged me incorrectly? This is the only instance that this has happened, all my other transactions throughout my vacation posted correctly as CHF. This is downright shady. The hotel isn't that small either.

You can save time by filing a dispute on the Chase website.

The description should be much shorter than your first post: "Merchant refused to charge in local currency. Merchant forced Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC), violating Visa rules."

Was not offered DCC (in this case ignored) is a valid chargeback reason. There's a code for that.

It's Visa chargeback reason code 76.

Merchants are only allowed a certain chargeback rate before they have to pay a high-risk fee. That is why it is important to report DCC violations instead of letting them go.

[talzara]

Based on my experience, due to the amount in question (43 cents), I am sure Chase will just eat the cost and give you the 43 cents.

It will still be counted against the merchant's statistics. They can only force DCC because people are not disputing it when they do.

[talzara]

I had a similar situation when paying my restaurant bill in Zurich several years ago. I saw that the restaurant worker selected USD for me. When I objected, he told me that his boss requires them to choose that option. I didn’t have any cash on me, and I was with my young kids who were 1 and 4 at the time, so I wasn’t about to run to find an ATM. I just reluctantly paid with the DCC and will never go back to that restaurant again. I thought about disputing the charge but decided that it wasn’t worth my time, since my cash back or points probably offset the DCC fee.

4% is low for DCC. It's usually 8% now, so it is much more worthwhile to file disputes.

Using a card that allows online disputes makes it much easier to get the DCC fee back.

[talzara]

This is getting to be "a thing". I'm hearing more and more stories about forced DCC.

Last time we were in Paris we stopped at a cheese shop in a heavy tourist area. There was a handwritten note next to the credit card machine that said all foreign cards will be charged in their home currency using DCC. Fortunately, we had euros and paid in cash.

Forced DCC violates the credit card networks' rules.

The cheese shop can only do this because tourists aren't filing disputes.

[talzara]

I live in Europe and also use a CSR card. In my experience, in Portugal, DCC conversion has only (suddenly!) been a frequent question in the last month. It depends on the brand and version of the card reader machine. A couple of the banks here must have rolled out a software update in august to ask about DCC. Most merchants / waiters etc have no idea. Here, it always asks TWO questions. 1) do you want to pay in USD or EUR. Press 1 for USD and 2 for EUR. You select 2 (EUR). Then it asks, “are you sure you want to reject conversion?” And had 1 for accept and 2 for reject.

That is a violation of Visa rule 5.8.9.2, which bans "any language or procedures" that causes customers to choose DCC by default.

That is also a violation of Mastercard DCC rules, which ban "indirect means of influencing Cardholder choice." Mastercard even bans the use of Yes/No options, so Accept/Reject options would also be banned for the same reason. The cardholder can only opt in to DCC by selecting the actual currency.

In my experience, friendly waiters often go, “oh you should pay in euros - it’s cheaper” and select EUR on the first question. And then 75% of the time they accidentally choose “accept conversion” on the next one, and I get stuck with the 5% up charge. It is what it is. I’ve decided to try to be more careful to try to remember to hold the machine / hit the buttons myself when paying. It’s generally just been an English-language misunderstanding.

That is also a violation of Visa rule 5.8.9.2, which requires the DCC option to be presented "to the Cardholder only." The waiter is not allowed to choose for you.

[Cruise]

I’ve posted this information on previous threads, but will repeat in case this is new and helpful for some:

I disputed a DCC charge from the Conrad Beijing, and had as proof, a zeroed-out invoice in RMB. The DCC amounted to about $60 on a $1200 or so bill. All I was after was the DCC amount, but Chase entered a dispute for the $1260. The Conrad Beijing never responded to the dispute, so Chase gave me a credit for the $1260 bill. My entire Beijing hotel room was free!

I recently disputed a $14,000 Lufthansa bill because they failed to refund $1000 they owed me. Again, Chase disputed the entire amount, not just the $1,000. In this case, Lufthansa responded and agreed to the entire refund.

The point to these stories is that when bad actors mess with your credit card, dispute the charges. You place them in a bad light with Visa, and you might end up not paying a cent on a purchase.

[talzara]

I’ve posted this information on previous threads, but will repeat in case this is new and helpful for some:

I disputed a DCC charge from the Conrad Beijing, and had as proof, a zeroed-out invoice in RMB. The DCC amounted to about $60 on a $1200 or so bill. All I was after was the DCC amount, but Chase entered a dispute for the $1260. The Conrad Beijing never responded to the dispute, so Chase gave me a credit for the $1260 bill. My entire Beijing hotel room was free!

I recently disputed a $14,000 Lufthansa bill because they failed to refund $1000 they owed me. Again, Chase disputed the entire amount, not just the $1,000. In this case, Lufthansa responded and agreed to the entire refund.

The point to these stories is that when bad actors mess with your credit card, dispute the charges. You place them in a bad light with Visa, and you might end up not paying a cent on a purchase.

Mastercard's chargeback rules say that the entire amount must be charged back. It is not allowed to charge back only the DCC fee.

Visa doesn't have this rule, but it also doesn't prohibit it. Since Chase also issues Mastercards, it's easier to do the same thing for both networks.

[Random Poster]

Then it asks, “are you sure you want to reject conversion?” And had 1 for accept and 2 for reject.

I don’t get outside the US much these days, but—in my view—that is some tricky language, even for a native English speaker.

I can totally see why someone would pick “1”, thinking that they are accepting the rejection of the conversion, with the thought being that they will be charged in local currency.

But instead (I presume), they should go with “2,” and thus go with a double negative, thereby rejecting the rejection of the conversion so as to actually be charged in local currency.

Right?

[cubs1999]

Then it asks, “are you sure you want to reject conversion?” And had 1 for accept and 2 for reject.

I don’t get outside the US much these days, but—in my view—that is some tricky language, even for a native English speaker.

I can totally see why someone would pick “1”, thinking that they are accepting the rejection of the conversion, with the thought being that they will be charged in local currency.

But instead (I presume), they should go with “2,” and thus go with a double negative, thereby rejecting the rejection of the conversion so as to actually be charged in local currency.

Right?

I think it's the opposite. You click accept. You are accepting that you are rejecting the currency conversion.

[EverydayWallSt]

Agree that it’s confusing! Anyway, if you find yourself in Portugal, hit 2.

[criticalmass]

Please understand that DCC is usually done by the merchant's bank and the merchant may not even be aware or familiar with it, let alone the poor clerk.

The same thing happens in the United States of America.
Pay with a non USA credit card at BEST BUY and voila, the cash register defaults to Dynamic Currency Conversion.

Typically the acquiring bank splits DCC revenue with the merchant, but that is buried deep in the merchant agreement.

[criticalmass]

I had a similar situation when paying my restaurant bill in Zurich several years ago. I saw that the restaurant worker selected USD for me. When I objected, he told me that his boss requires them to choose that option. I didn’t have any cash on me, and I was with my young kids who were 1 and 4 at the time, so I wasn’t about to run to find an ATM. I just reluctantly paid with the DCC and will never go back to that restaurant again. I thought about disputing the charge but decided that it wasn’t worth my time, since my cash back or points probably offset the DCC fee.

4% is low for DCC. It's usually 8% now, so it is much more worthwhile to file disputes.

Using a card that allows online disputes makes it much easier to get the DCC fee back.

Agreed. Just used a Euro ATM that tried to convince me to use DCC for 11% commission then politely tried to convince me to change my mind. But at least the language was clear to select EURO.

[lazydavid]

This is getting to be "a thing". I'm hearing more and more stories about forced DCC.

Probably because pretty much all premium travel cards (and even some free/cheap ones) now offer no ForEx fee. Years ago that feature was much less common, so it probably didn't matter as often and travelers wouldn't care who got the profit from the conversion.

[Cruise]

This DCC thing seems curiously present in some countries and absent in others. I’ve traveled extensively in Japan and never had a DCC.

[talzara]

This is getting to be "a thing". I'm hearing more and more stories about forced DCC.

Probably because pretty much all premium travel cards (and even some free/cheap ones) now offer no ForEx fee. Years ago that feature was much less common, so it probably didn't matter as often and travelers wouldn't care who got the profit from the conversion.

Foreign transaction fees were usually around 3%.

DCC is usually around 8% now and can sometimes be more than 10%. It is a much worse deal for the traveler than foreign transaction fees.

Merchants are forcing DCC because they get to keep part of the DCC fee. They don't get to keep part of the foreign transaction fee.