How to internalize what you read

[jaqenhghar]

Hi BHs,

To follow up on the hobby thread, one of my main hobbies is reading non-fiction books. I'm currently reading the Klangfool-recommended The Creative Attitude, and it's eye-opening for me. I take notes on my laptop as I read, but unless I re-read my notes regularly, it won't really stick with me.

I'm wondering: when you read something that's meaningful to you, do you take any steps so that you can recall & remember it later on?

I've toyed w/ the idea of taking notes on my laptop & then handwriting those notes on a piece of paper, but I'd be curious if this group has any other ideas to help internalize things you've read.

[leeks]

If I take notes, I remember much more from creating handwritten notes than from typed ones. But I don't do notes unless it is for work or school. I also retain more from reading on paper than on a computer/device. If I need to read a journal article, for example, I will often still print it which allows for marking up the page.

For personal reading, I think one of the best ways to cement your knowledge is to have someone to discuss it with.

The Well-Educated Mind is a book that offers a reading list (fiction and nonfiction) but also comes with suggestions on how to take notes and read for mastery.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/039308096X/

[rob]

For me it's about writing notes.... I rarely even re-read them but the act of writing - for me - is completely different from typing and helps a lot with retention. I often use a tablet and e-pen.... but have wondered if I just "wrote" them with a stick and blank pad would matter much, given how often I reference notes

[Northern Flicker]

Paradoxically, try not taking notes and using your thought processes to reflect on what you are reading instead of on deciding what to capture in your notes. The goal does not include being able to recall every fact used to back up a point made by the author.

[gavinsiu]

I just write it down to see if I can summarize it without using the same exact word.

[Nicolas]

I’ve read that physically writing notes with a pen or pencil rather than typing them enables one to better retain information. But to retain knowledge one also needs to periodically review the information because whatever you don’t use you lose.

[KlangFool]

OP,

I read that book. And, the only thing that I remembered and used constantly is the following phrase:

When you asked the wrong question, you would never get the right answer!

Aka, question whether you are asking the right question at all. And, that open the whole new world.

And, wrong communication and misunderstanding is a very useful tool in creative thinking. Do not be afraid to ask the dumb question. Ego and fear of looking foolish is the biggest obstacle of learning and understanding.

To answer your direct question,

The goal is not to internalize what you read. It is to practice and use what you read. Then, it will become part of your thinking toolkit.

KlangFool

[KlangFool]

OP,

BTW, do you read any book and learn any technique on

A) Speed reading?

B) Taking note?

C) How to learn?

It was always a surprise to me how the formal education failed to teach folks on those fundamental skill of learning.

KlangFool

[KlangFool]

OP,

Highly recommend this free online course.

https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn

KlangFool

[Nicolas]

I would refer you to the book How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book

[Taylor Larimore]

OP,

BTW, do you read any book and learn any technique on

A) Speed reading?

B) Taking note?

C) How to learn?

It was always a surprise to me how the formal education failed to teach folks on those fundamental skill of learning.

KlangFool

KlangFool:

I read mostly financial books. If they are good, I take important excerpt and put them in my Investment Gems for later reading.

Best wishes.
Taylor

Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: “Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!”.

[doobiedoo]

Hi BHs,
I'm wondering: when you read something that's meaningful to you, do you take any steps so that you can recall & remember it later on?

I've toyed w/ the idea of taking notes on my laptop & then handwriting those notes on a piece of paper, but I'd be curious if this group has any other ideas to help internalize things you've read.

Yes, I take notes for significant books when I really want to remember it.

1. I find that hand-writing the notes is more effective than typing them into a computer. [For a really good book, I do both.]

2. Sometimes at night before I fall asleep, I will see if I can recite the gist of the notes. If I can't do it from memory off the top of my head, I don't really know it.

3. For a top 10 book, I will write a summary review, e.g.
"The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey (Simon and Schuster 1989).
I re-read portions of this book more often than any other. You probably already know a few of these habits. The trick is to put all of them together in practical every day usage. The 7 habits are:
• Be Proactive
• Begin with the End in Mind
• Put First Things First
• Think Win/Win
• Seek First to Understand, Then to be Understood (i.e. listen first)
• Synergize
• Sharpen the Saw

The first 3 are things you do by yourself. The second 3 are interactions with others."

[runner3081]

I take a picture of the relevant text and have a folder in Google drive for them.

[Bogle7]

I read.
Take no notes.
Forget 90% within days.
All books could be reduced to a boring/succinct 1/2 page.

[rockstar]

Read slower and take notes. And don't read when you're tired.

[Beensabu]

Scan both open pages. Then read them. You know you're actually reading if you're silently saying all the words to yourself in order in your head. Then read those two pages again.

If it's your own copy, you can pencil in brackets (sacrilege, I know! but it's non-fiction, it's okay) in the outer margins on the second read for whatever catches your attention (if anything). And add a * for the particular bits. Doing that pretty much gives you another scan of those parts. And that's all on your first read through of the book.

Flip the page, scan, flip the page back to reread the beginning of whatever paragraph started on the last page, flip forward again, read those two pages, then read them again (flipping back if you have to).

It's slower going depending on your reading speed, but once you finish the book, you can flip through and revisit the bracketed and/or * sections for a salient points review. That is a much much a faster read, and sometimes some other bit that surrounds will snag your eyes when you missed the first time.

You can only mark up your own copies. But if it's yours, you can mark it up. I would use pencil. I would refrain from underlining.

[Aggieland]

I excel sheets for various topics such as taxes, personal finance, annual to do list, New learnings.

As i read/ encounter things, I try to fit them into various actionable or think/reflect buckets. I like spending time and further working on these buckets to internalize them. It is inspired by Charlie Munger's mental models framework. You may want to look up that framework.

So far this method has served me well!

[rob]

You know you're actually reading if you're silently saying all the words to yourself in order in your head.

It took me YEARS and a lot of effort to stop doing that. It annoys me no end that we push kids to learn to read like this as IMO it's just a poor technique and a crutch for the teacher. Once you can drop that internal voice - your speed and comprehension increase significantly - or it has for me at least.

[strummer6969]

Reading very slowly. When you hit something interesting let it sink in, let your mind wander a bit. It can take me weeks to finish a book. I'd rather internalize a few special things than be able to recall many facts or just add to my collection of 'read' books.

[tetractys]

Hi BHs,

To follow up on the hobby thread, one of my main hobbies is reading non-fiction books. I'm currently reading the Klangfool-recommended The Creative Attitude, and it's eye-opening for me. I take notes on my laptop as I read, but unless I re-read my notes regularly, it won't really stick with me.

I'm wondering: when you read something that's meaningful to you, do you take any steps so that you can recall & remember it later on?

I've toyed w/ the idea of taking notes on my laptop & then handwriting those notes on a piece of paper, but I'd be curious if this group has any other ideas to help internalize things you've read.

It’s simply a matter of being attentive or mindful. But that being a skill in itself, taking notes and repetition are helpful additives.

[Beensabu]

You know you're actually reading if you're silently saying all the words to yourself in order in your head.

It took me YEARS and a lot of effort to stop doing that. It annoys me no end that we push kids to learn to read like this as IMO it's just a poor technique and a crutch for the teacher. Once you can drop that internal voice - your speed and comprehension increase significantly - or it has for me at least.

My classmates used to tease me that they could cheat off me if they could read lips, because I mouthed words as I wrote as well.

I need the internal voice, otherwise I'm scanning. When I scan, I can read faster and get big picture comprehension quickly, but I lose the nuance. When I say the words silently in my head, it makes me slow down and I get to appreciate the writing itself and the "sound" of it that someone put time and effort into. Good writers (non-fiction too) read what they write aloud and edit based on that as well. I appreciate poetic prose. You miss it if you don't slow down.

[renter]

I would refer you to the book How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book

How do you read this book, before having read this book?

[ScubaHogg]

I travel a bunch so my kindle is my primary reading source. I will highlight on there. For a long time I very rarely re+read my highlights, but now I use Readwise. It syncs them all to an app I have on my phone. Now when I’m sitting around killing time on my phone I’ll just scroll through Readwise and reread all sorts of highlights and notes I had forgotten. I’m a fan

https://readwise.io/

[Nicolas]

I would refer you to the book How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book

How do you read this book, before having read this book?

You have to read it twice of course

[KlangFool]

Reading very slowly. When you hit something interesting let it sink in, let your mind wander a bit. It can take me weeks to finish a book. I'd rather internalize a few special things than be able to recall many facts or just add to my collection of 'read' books.

strummer6969,

This is one of techniques. The other technique is speeding reading and read the book 3 times. In general, the speed reader can read the book 3 times at the same speed as someone reading the book once.

KlangFool

[AnotherRetiredGuy]

All I do is keep a running list of every book I finish, now going back to 2005.

Obviously this is worse than notetaking, but better than nothing.

[MathWizard]

I have never taken notes, not even during lectures. It kept me from concentrating on what was said.

As I read or listen, I am continually asking, does this make sense? If it doesn't, I re-read, or in a lecture ask a question.

When I read books, even for pleasure, I never mark the page, I can quickly get back to where I was by reading a few sentences,
and guessing where I was at in the book. I can recognize a book even multiple years later, just by reading the first few pages.
It is possible that this is just an ability I have but I think that it has to do with integrating what I am reading into what I already know.

I was that student who would stand up in a 300 person lecture and ask a question if I did not understand something.
(Yes, we were required to stand if we had a question and wait to be called on).
When I asked the question, many around me were nodding their head that they had the same question,
but would not have asked it.

[sls239]

Generally other than rolling an idea around in my mind, no.

I read a fair amount of non-fiction but it is important to remember that non-fiction… well it doesn’t always remain non-fiction. Even if the facts and observations remain the same, the addition of new information and advances in interpretation mean that it is prudent to double check with current sources before relying on what was read in a book however long ago.

[Qcat]

There are two types of reading, passive and active. Passive reading is where you just read without the primary goal of retention. Active reading is harder but is better for many to retain facts. I use SQ3R- Survey-Question-Read-Rite-Recite. You can google video's on this. Many colleges and better high schools teach this. This will take you some effort to figure out how to individualize this for you. But it can help you retain, better. You are actively asking yourself questions about the text and interacting with the author.

Hope this Helps

Mike

[Montrose]

I read a lot of books (mostly classics and history). What helps me is keeping a physical copy of the book if I've enjoyed it, or it's made some good impression on me. I can look at the book on the shelf later on and remember quite a bit about it. I also keep a spreadsheet of all the books I read and updating it sparks my memory of them. I do tell myself when reading to enjoy the book while I'm reading it, and don't rush through it. If I come upon a real takeaway, I take the time to let my mind chew on it. Maybe Google the subject to dive deeper. I also read a lot of reviews on Goodreads to get other perspectives on the book. Different minds see different things.

[saveinvestbecomefree]

Interesting thread with some good ideas I will have to try. When I read a book to learn, I will try to read carefully (i.e. not tired before bed, slower pace), and I'll highlight key parts I want to internalize and remember. When I finish the book, I'll write down the highlighted parts by hand (I like to use fountain pens), often adding additional elements of my own, in a summary of key take-aways. If the book has a lot of useful content and I have a fair amount of notes, I will highlight the best of the best in my notes as well. This makes it a good cliff-notes type reference for the future. This has helped me with retention for investment, personal finance, and human psychology books.

[HipCoyote]

I do not do this with financial material, but when I was working and all promotions and new positions within my agency were competitive, I studied and then (don't laugh) taught a class on the material. Only issue was there was no one in the class...it was just me and a white board talking to myself. Stand up lecture. Obviously one cannot do this for everything, but effective to retain key material.

On lesser subjects I am now re-reading a few books and really learning new material (mostly history).

Once read a book on Stonewall Jackson when he taught at VMI (as I recall) and he simply sat in the back of his classroom and made students teach the class...I would imagine that it would have been very effective.

I hear, I forget; I read I know, I do and I understand...

[Sandtrap]

Hi BHs,

To follow up on the hobby thread, one of my main hobbies is reading non-fiction books. I'm currently reading the Klangfool-recommended The Creative Attitude, and it's eye-opening for me. I take notes on my laptop as I read, but unless I re-read my notes regularly, it won't really stick with me.

I'm wondering: when you read something that's meaningful to you, do you take any steps so that you can recall & remember it later on?

I've toyed w/ the idea of taking notes on my laptop & then handwriting those notes on a piece of paper, but I'd be curious if this group has any other ideas to help internalize things you've read.

me
i sort of "photo read" (like snapshots) rapidly since young (6-7) and grasp all of the core concepts (10% cake no frosting 90% of a book) rapidly with permanent recall in the greater context and tangential subjects like a sensed (synesthesia) inner mental and sensed tapestry. I retain all subjects with the same "involuntary approach" like reading something interesting like how to fly fish or adjust a well pump pressure sensor or one of W, Bernsteins or Nassim Talens works.
i've read that there's ways to "learn to do this".
The idea of it is to grasp what the author had as the core understanding of his work before and as he wrote it and absorb that as if it were your own, all cake no frosting.
Most all books are 1% or less cake and targeted to "sell or appeal" to a broad target audience in the bell curve. IE post doct level oxford or cambridge reading might only appeal let alone be grasped by the .001% readership market$$$$ so theres no impetus to market at that level. See?
Anyway. There are ways to grasp information and immediately parse out knowledge vs wisdom vs verified fact and data vs et al. And stay focused on core things the author was concerned about.
It's like someone giving you a peanut butter sandwich......
metaphor/analogy
I read several books or more at the same time.
Always hard or soft cover.Real paper.
Sometimes i'll disassemble a books contents or concepts on a yellow pad like a flow chart etc. as what the author would have done.

pm me as you wish as the subject matter is intriguing and delves into implicit cognitive psychology and other fields.

Does anyone else "read" like this?
j

[Statch]

I'm surprised only one person mentioned Readwise! This is their "thing." You can highlight things on a Kindle or in your browser and have all the highlights go to the Readwise app. (You can also use your phone to capture highlights from a print book!) Then you can review them in the app, but another really powerful thing they do is send you a periodic (daily, if you want) email with 4-6 highlights from various sources you've read. The idea is that recall works better if you're periodically reminded of it. https://readwise.io/

They are working on a new Reader app that does some amazing things (https://readwise.io/read).

[Northster]

I agree that hand-written notes are effective, though my usual practice is to just keep a text file listing each book read, along with a summary paragraph. Not optimal but helps some and keep me from buying the same book again.

[BaerLee$Makinette]

I don't take notes because nearly all the books I read are loaners from our local library.

My daughter used to write notes in the edges of pages of books while she read them but obviously not something she did unless she owned the book. It's rather amusing now to read one of her books and find her tiny microscopic handwriting in it with a cogent point she pondered. I think she still does it even though she's 32 years old now

[Sandtrap]

Paradoxically, try not taking notes and using your thought processes to reflect on what you are reading instead of on deciding what to capture in your notes. The goal does not include being able to recall every fact used to back up a point made by the author.

+1
well said
great points

j

[jaqenhghar]

Appreciate everyone's insights.

I spent the last few days digesting the feedback, and as one of the responses pointed out, my goal for reading is to practice & use what I've read.

One of the responses lead me to Farnam Street's "Blank Sheet" method (https://fs.blog/reading/) which I plan on trying as it seems it would help me integrate what I'm reading to what I already know & why it's relevant to me.

Will update this thread for the next book I read to share how it went!

[AnnetteLouisan]

In college I put a box around the highlights of a textbook (not underlying since I found a box easier to read). When studying for important exams or the like, I mostly do index cards. Question on the front, answer on the back. Write them out. And go through the deck, making a little check or dot on the card every time you get it correctly. After five checks, remove the card from the deck. Saves time studying things you already know. Another option is just folding over a page with the answer under the fold.

More recently, I make computerized notes and review them as needed.