A drive in the Sacramento suburbs

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yobria
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A drive in the Sacramento suburbs

Post by yobria » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:08 pm

Yesterday I went to look at a used car for sale in a Sacramento, CA. The seller's street was in a suburb built 3 years ago by developers with big plans for the area. He said he'd paid $600K for his house then, which had a value of $300K today. Across the street was the frame, now rusting, of what was supposed to be the biggest mall in Northern California.

The developers had named the street "Black Swan Drive".

Nick

btenny
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Post by btenny » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:06 pm

Black Swan Drive was the name before or after the crash?

Bill

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baw703916
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Post by baw703916 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:36 pm

I did a quick search and found a house for sale on Black Swan Dr. (which is in Elk Grove)!

I don't think it's a foreclosure sale though (that would have been really appropriate!)

The ironic part is that the real estate market in Sacramento (where I grew up) is liable to recover quite a bit better than most of the Central Valley (due to the state government and spill-over/cost differential with the Bay Area).

Brad
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kenbrumy
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Post by kenbrumy » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:07 pm

Sacramento won't recover a quickly if California does what it needs to do and eliminate a significant number of state employees. Many live in the Sacramento area.

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Post by LynnC » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:30 pm

baw703916 wrote:I did a quick search and found a house for sale on Black Swan Dr. (which is in Elk Grove)!

I don't think it's a foreclosure sale though (that would have been really appropriate!)

The ironic part is that the real estate market in Sacramento (where I grew up) is liable to recover quite a bit better than most of the Central Valley (due to the state government and spill-over/cost differential with the Bay Area).

Brad
You, too? Then you know the two best things about Sacramento: Tahoe and San Francisco! :D

LynnC

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Post by baw703916 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:51 pm

LynnC wrote:
baw703916 wrote:I did a quick search and found a house for sale on Black Swan Dr. (which is in Elk Grove)!

I don't think it's a foreclosure sale though (that would have been really appropriate!)

The ironic part is that the real estate market in Sacramento (where I grew up) is liable to recover quite a bit better than most of the Central Valley (due to the state government and spill-over/cost differential with the Bay Area).

Brad
You, too? Then you know the two best things about Sacramento: Tahoe and San Francisco! :D

LynnC
Don't forget Napa and Yosemite! :wink:
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Post by btenny » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:54 pm

Well it was 103 degrees this afternoon in Sacremento. It will be 103 or so for most of this week. That is hot. Now as far as employment in Sacremento goes I think things are going to change a lot as they struggle to find ways to balance the budget. So any bets on a housing recovery will be tied to those plans.

Bill

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Post by gkaplan » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:15 pm

I bought my 2008 Honda Fit in Elk Grove.

Actually, Sacramento is a very pretty city, but I wouldn't want to live there in the summer. Way too hot.
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Post by nisiprius » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:50 pm

btenny wrote:Black Swan Drive was the name before or after the crash?

Bill
Google seems to know of Black Swan Drives in Shawnee, KS; Elk Grove, CA; Salt Lake City, Utah; Whangarei, New Zealand; Upper Marlboro, MD; South Berwick, ME; etc.

A 1963 book has a reference to "4812 Black Swan Drive, Shawnee, Kansas" and a 2005 book mentions one of them as being part of a 1990s subdivision in Perrywood, Maryland. A 1974 book on "Essex and the Industrial Revolution" mentions "the Saffron Walden foundries of Robert Rickard in Mill Lane and William Rider in Black Swan Street noticed by Pigot in 1823." So they're certainly not all references to Taleb's book.
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teacher
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Post by teacher » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:14 pm

gkaplan wrote:
Actually, Sacramento is a very pretty city, but I wouldn't want to live there in the summer. Way too hot.
......but it is a dry heat. :) The low tonight will be 62. The Delta breeze will kick in and make all things better.

Teacher

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Post by baw703916 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:16 pm

btenny wrote:Well it was 103 degrees this afternoon in Sacremento. It will be 103 or so for most of this week. That is hot. Now as far as employment in Sacremento goes I think things are going to change a lot as they struggle to find ways to balance the budget. So any bets on a housing recovery will be tied to those plans.

Bill
For some reason, after having grown up in Sacramento, I seem to be able to stand the summer heat in DC (about 10 degrees cooler, albeit with more humidity) better than most of the locals. :wink:

Yes, the CA budget crisis will definitely impact the local economy.

Brad
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Post by Valuethinker » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:43 am

baw703916 wrote:
btenny wrote:Well it was 103 degrees this afternoon in Sacremento. It will be 103 or so for most of this week. That is hot. Now as far as employment in Sacremento goes I think things are going to change a lot as they struggle to find ways to balance the budget. So any bets on a housing recovery will be tied to those plans.

Bill
For some reason, after having grown up in Sacramento, I seem to be able to stand the summer heat in DC (about 10 degrees cooler, albeit with more humidity) better than most of the locals. :wink:

Yes, the CA budget crisis will definitely impact the local economy.

Brad
90 degrees in Washington must be like 110 in California? That humidity....

Dry heat you can get into the shade. I've been over 100 degrees in the Chinese desert, and you can cope (if there is shade, and water).

But wet heat, there is no escape other than air conditioning.

Or as a friend of mine put it about Houston in summer 'a constant 72 degrees and dry. What are you complaining about?' ;-).

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Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:15 am

nisiprius wrote:
btenny wrote:Black Swan Drive was the name before or after the crash?

Bill
Google seems to know of Black Swan Drives in Shawnee, KS; Elk Grove, CA; Salt Lake City, Utah; Whangarei, New Zealand; Upper Marlboro, MD; South Berwick, ME; etc.

A 1963 book has a reference to "4812 Black Swan Drive, Shawnee, Kansas" and a 2005 book mentions one of them as being part of a 1990s subdivision in Perrywood, Maryland. A 1974 book on "Essex and the Industrial Revolution" mentions "the Saffron Walden foundries of Robert Rickard in Mill Lane and William Rider in Black Swan Street noticed by Pigot in 1823." So they're certainly not all references to Taleb's book.
I can think of even more prophetic names such as
- Black Swan Way
- Black Swan Court
- Black Swan Squared :wink:

Victoria
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Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:20 am

Valuethinker wrote:
baw703916 wrote:
btenny wrote:Well it was 103 degrees this afternoon in Sacremento. It will be 103 or so for most of this week. That is hot. Now as far as employment in Sacremento goes I think things are going to change a lot as they struggle to find ways to balance the budget. So any bets on a housing recovery will be tied to those plans.

Bill
For some reason, after having grown up in Sacramento, I seem to be able to stand the summer heat in DC (about 10 degrees cooler, albeit with more humidity) better than most of the locals. :wink:

Yes, the CA budget crisis will definitely impact the local economy.

Brad
90 degrees in Washington must be like 110 in California? That humidity....

Dry heat you can get into the shade. I've been over 100 degrees in the Chinese desert, and you can cope (if there is shade, and water).

But wet heat, there is no escape other than air conditioning.

Or as a friend of mine put it about Houston in summer 'a constant 72 degrees and dry. What are you complaining about?' ;-).
The irony, of course, is that the more you use air conditioning the more you need it. When I travel I wean myself of it all together. But in the regular life I am forced to spend hours at a time in an air conditioned office.

Victoria
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Post by chaz » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:53 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:
baw703916 wrote:
btenny wrote:Well it was 103 degrees this afternoon in Sacremento. It will be 103 or so for most of this week. That is hot. Now as far as employment in Sacremento goes I think things are going to change a lot as they struggle to find ways to balance the budget. So any bets on a housing recovery will be tied to those plans.

Bill
For some reason, after having grown up in Sacramento, I seem to be able to stand the summer heat in DC (about 10 degrees cooler, albeit with more humidity) better than most of the locals. :wink:

Yes, the CA budget crisis will definitely impact the local economy.

Brad
90 degrees in Washington must be like 110 in California? That humidity....

Dry heat you can get into the shade. I've been over 100 degrees in the Chinese desert, and you can cope (if there is shade, and water).

But wet heat, there is no escape other than air conditioning.

Or as a friend of mine put it about Houston in summer 'a constant 72 degrees and dry. What are you complaining about?' ;-).
The irony, of course, is that the more you use air conditioning the more you need it. When I travel I wean myself of it all together. But in the regular life I am forced to spend hours at a time in an air conditioned office.

Victoria
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Post by LynnC » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:02 pm

teacher wrote:gkaplan wrote:
Actually, Sacramento is a very pretty city, but I wouldn't want to live there in the summer. Way too hot.
......but it is a dry heat. :) The low tonight will be 62. The Delta breeze will kick in and make all things better.

Teacher
Wait until "fair time" when it is 110 degrees day and night. Oh yes, the tule fog in the winter making it very cold and very damp and very dreary. I'll give Sacrameneto a good Spring and good Autumn and oh yes, there's Tahoe and The City.

LynnC

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Post by teacher » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:29 pm

Yesterday, Sac suburbs, Folsom and Citrus Heights, hit 114. It reminded me of the time we picked up English family from the San Francisco airport and drove them to the Sac area. We knew the prediction was 116, but didn't tell them.

My sister-in-law, who is the proverbial English Rose, commented on the "lovely weather" in SF. It was cool with a slight breeze. As we neared Sac, the car temperature gage climbed.... 85, 95, 105, 110, 116. :oops: Our car air conditioner was working great so the English were oblivious as to what would befall them.

When we stepped out of the car in Sacramento, she exclaimed, "Oh, dear! It's an oven!" When shopping, she actually ran from the car to the store, trying to avoid getting cooked.

Husband (who is English) has never gotten used to the heat, but he agrees after visiting states with humidity, the oven is preferable than the sauna because it is easier to find relief. Whole house fans are wonderful at night because the breeze from the delta almost always provides relief. It sucks in that cool air, but it sounds like a jet engine is in the room.

Teacher

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Post by chaz » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:35 pm

teacher wrote:Yesterday, Sac suburbs, Folsom and Citrus Heights, hit 114. It reminded me of the time we picked up English family from the San Francisco airport and drove them to the Sac area. We knew the prediction was 116, but didn't tell them.

My sister-in-law, who is the proverbial English Rose, commented on the "lovely weather" in SF. It was cool with a slight breeze. As we neared Sac, the car temperature gage climbed.... 85, 95, 105, 110, 116. :oops: Our car air conditioner was working great so the English were oblivious as to what would befall them.

When we stepped out of the car in Sacramento, she exclaimed, "Oh, dear! It's an oven!" When shopping, she actually ran from the car to the store, trying to avoid getting cooked.

Husband (who is English) has never gotten used to the heat, but he agrees after visiting states with humidity, the oven is preferable than the sauna because it is easier to find relief. Whole house fans are wonderful at night because the breeze from the delta almost always provides relief. It sucks in that cool air, but it sounds like a jet engine is in the room.

Teacher
That's hotter than the desert.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

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Post by chaz » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:36 pm

teacher wrote:Yesterday, Sac suburbs, Folsom and Citrus Heights, hit 114. It reminded me of the time we picked up English family from the San Francisco airport and drove them to the Sac area. We knew the prediction was 116, but didn't tell them.

My sister-in-law, who is the proverbial English Rose, commented on the "lovely weather" in SF. It was cool with a slight breeze. As we neared Sac, the car temperature gage climbed.... 85, 95, 105, 110, 116. :oops: Our car air conditioner was working great so the English were oblivious as to what would befall them.

When we stepped out of the car in Sacramento, she exclaimed, "Oh, dear! It's an oven!" When shopping, she actually ran from the car to the store, trying to avoid getting cooked.

Husband (who is English) has never gotten used to the heat, but he agrees after visiting states with humidity, the oven is preferable than the sauna because it is easier to find relief. Whole house fans are wonderful at night because the breeze from the delta almost always provides relief. It sucks in that cool air, but it sounds like a jet engine is in the room.

Teacher
That's hotter than the desert.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

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Post by teacher » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:47 pm

This heat make me appreciate our soldiers in the Middle East who have to wear protective clothing and equipment. How is it possible to cope even for a short time? They are so appreciated.

Teacher

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Post by stratton » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:07 pm

VictoriaF wrote:The irony, of course, is that the more you use air conditioning the more you need it. When I travel I wean myself of it all together. But in the regular life I am forced to spend hours at a time in an air conditioned office.
My experience with exertion in hot, dry weather and exposure to air conditioning is they cancel each other out.

The exercise of something like bike riding will condition you to the heat and the air conditiong will be a great reward after all that work. The AC will almost energize you because you can do stuff without heat effects.

If you don't become acclimated to some physical activity in hot and dry weather then it can be quite sapping of your energy. The AC will just revive someone who's enervated from the heat.

Paul

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Post by gatorman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:31 pm

stratton wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:The irony, of course, is that the more you use air conditioning the more you need it. When I travel I wean myself of it all together. But in the regular life I am forced to spend hours at a time in an air conditioned office.
My experience with exertion in hot, dry weather and exposure to air conditioning is they cancel each other out.

The exercise of something like bike riding will condition you to the heat and the air conditiong will be a great reward after all that work. The AC will almost energize you because you can do stuff without heat effects.

If you don't become acclimated to some physical activity in hot and dry weather then it can be quite sapping of your energy. The AC will just revive someone who's enervated from the heat.

Paul
Biking is my preferred summertime exercise because I can usually go fast enough so the sweat evaporates and keep me cool. I can't do that jogging or walking. If I can't bike ride, the fall back is the FX machine at the airconditioned gym.
gatorman

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teacher
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Post by teacher » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:46 pm

The Englishman is out there running his daily five miles in 106 heat. He is 62, and he says he HAS to do it. I am thinking I should try to convince him to install a pool in the backyard for low impact, civilized exercise. Every time he goes out in this, I hold my breath, and when he comes home, he looks red as a lobster.

Teacher

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Post by MWCA » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:12 pm

Live in Sacramento to work. Have a vacation house in Tahoe. Seems like a great plan to me. Providing you didnt buy at the peak..hehehe

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Post by btenny » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:55 pm

Well the deserts of Phoenix are forecast as 106 high today with a low of only 85 or so. And this has been one of the coolest Junes on record. The big city concrete and pavement holds the heat at night so it does not cool off at night. So those of you that think Sacremento is as hot as the desert think again. Plus don't forget that Phoenix usually gets to 110-115 every summer for many weeks at a time and stays hot for the whole summer. It is usually above 103 every day from June 1st to Oct 15 or so. It is stays above 75-80 at night for the whole 4.5 month period.

So those of you that live in Sacremento be thankful for your delta breezes that cool it off at night to 60 or so. It must be wonderful late at night or in the early morning to get up to cool weather.

Bill

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Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:11 pm

teacher wrote:The Englishman is out there running his daily five miles in 106 heat. He is 62, and he says he HAS to do it. I am thinking I should try to convince him to install a pool in the backyard for low impact, civilized exercise. Every time he goes out in this, I hold my breath, and when he comes home, he looks red as a lobster.

Teacher
http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiMADDOGS.html
Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
The Japanese don't care to, the Chinese wouldn't dare to,
Hindus and Argentines sleep firmly from twelve to one,
But Englishmen detest a siesta,
In the Philippines there are lovely screens,
to protect you from the glare,
In the Malay states there are hats like plates,
which the Britishers won't wear,
At twelve noon the natives swoon, and
no further work is done -
But Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.

It's such a surprise for the Eastern eyes to see,
That though the British are effete,
they're quite impervious to heat,

When the white man rides, every native hides in glee,
Because the simple creatures hope he will
impale his solar topee on a tree.
Bolyboly-bolyboly-bolyboly-baa. (Repeat)
Habaninny-habaninny-habaninny-haa. (Repeat)
It seems such a shame that when the English claim the earth
That they give rise to such hilarity and mirth -

Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
The toughest Burmese bandit can never understand it.
In Rangoon the heat of noon is just what the natives shun.
They put their scotch or rye down, and lie down.
In the jungle town where the sun beats down,
to the rage of man or beast,
The English garb of the English sahib merely gets a bit more creased.
In Bangkok, at twelve o'clock, they foam at the mouth and run,
But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.

Mad Dogs and Englishmen, go out in the midday sun.
The smallest Malay rabbit deplores this stupid habit.
In Hong Kong, they strike a gong, and fire off a noonday gun.
To reprimand each inmate, who's in late.
In the mangrove swamps where the python romps
there is peace from twelve till two.
Even caribous lie down and snooze, for there's nothing else to do.
In Bengal, to move at all, is seldom if ever done,
But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.


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baw703916
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Post by baw703916 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:27 pm

My version of the "English person visiting Sacramento" story happened at a different time of year (don't recall when exactly, but not the summer, because it envolves rain--it simply doesn't rain in the summer there).

Anyway, a family friend from England was visiting us in California, and on a particular day it was raining. My father thought the planned outing should be called off due to the weather, but Pam said, "Oh, it's just misting!" and thought the weather was more than adequate.

Brad
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teacher
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Post by teacher » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:59 pm

Valuethinker,
Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
If I had a dime for every time I sang that to him as he went out the door….
I have never seen the whole song. Thanks for sharing it. Now he can hear the whole thing. :D

Brad,
I love the understatement.
It reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail when the Black Knight said to King Arthur, “It’s just a flesh wound.”

Coming from a country where they carry an umbrella or pac-a-mac year round, only torrential rain keeps Husband under cover. Trust me.

Teacher

schwarm
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Post by schwarm » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:29 pm

btenny wrote:Well the deserts of Phoenix are forecast as 106 high today with a low of only 85 or so. And this has been one of the coolest Junes on record. The big city concrete and pavement holds the heat at night so it does not cool off at night. So those of you that think Sacremento is as hot as the desert think again. Plus don't forget that Phoenix usually gets to 110-115 every summer for many weeks at a time and stays hot for the whole summer. It is usually above 103 every day from June 1st to Oct 15 or so. It is stays above 75-80 at night for the whole 4.5 month period.

So those of you that live in Sacremento be thankful for your delta breezes that cool it off at night to 60 or so. It must be wonderful late at night or in the early morning to get up to cool weather.

Bill
Plus I hear there is more humidity in Phoenix in the latter half of the summer (monsoon season) during which evaporative cooling "swamp coolers" are not effective. Not as humid as the southeast US, but I bet worse than Northern California.

Valuethinker
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Post by Valuethinker » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:28 am

baw703916 wrote:My version of the "English person visiting Sacramento" story happened at a different time of year (don't recall when exactly, but not the summer, because it envolves rain--it simply doesn't rain in the summer there).

Anyway, a family friend from England was visiting us in California, and on a particular day it was raining. My father thought the planned outing should be called off due to the weather, but Pam said, "Oh, it's just misting!" and thought the weather was more than adequate.

Brad
Irish English (yes, there is such a beast) has its own special words for different kinds of rain: 'a fresh day' etc.

It's apparently apocryphal that the Inuit have 22 different words for types of snow, but certainly one's perception of language alters.

When I came to England, we did not have torrential downpours a la North America in late summer. Now we do and the English have not yet adjusted to that-- it's national news here when someone is struck by lightning. Coming from the land of the August thunderstorm, that is strange.

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Post by baw703916 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:28 pm

Re: Mad dogs and Englishmen:

Growing up I had a "mad" dog of an English breed (a beagle). For some reason, she liked to lay on her side on a cement patio, in the middle of the afternoon, in full sun, when the temperature was over 100° F.

I'd never actually knew the bords to the song until now, but this behavior always brought the title to mind...
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