Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

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Topic Author
student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

Updated with a new question:

Thank you again for the responses. It seems that 1) and 3) are something that I could have delayed/avoided. So I will conclude that I wasted 50% of the cost (mental gymnastic to make me feel better). For 2) I really don't know enough about cars to make a good decision after hearing what they said unless I bring one of your experts with me (flying you in would be too expensive. :D).

I have a new question. The main reason I brought the car in to the dealership was the check engine light was on. So I made an appointment. I unscrewed and rescrewed the gas cap, drove for 30 secs. No change. The next day, I made a short trip and afterwards, the check engine light was off. But I decided to keep the appointment and have them take a look. The advisor said it would be $130 for diagnostic. I was surprised as the car is still under warranty. I told him this and he said that's the price. I found it expensive as they just need to plug in the code reader but I accepted it as I wanted to know the car is safe to drive. When I picked up the car, they said they have waived the charge. (It was caused by the O2 sensor and low voltage sensor, and they find no problem with the wiring. So no repair.)

Here is the question: Is it common for them to charge for diagnostic for a car under warranty? (Hyundai has a 5 year/60k miles new car limited warranty.) I guess at the end they did not charge it. I wonder whether this is no make sure whatever issue is covered by the warranty.

Any comments/insights? Thanks.

Original post:
For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Last edited by student on Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:27 am, edited 4 times in total.
Philly30
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:06 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by Philly30 »

My last car a 2001 Honda Civic I never flushed the brake fluid and only had to replace the brakes once, may be twice and that was a car that had 154,000 miles, I did oil changes about 5- 70000 miles, car ran fine. Don't trust dealers or mechanics, got an oil change last year, guy said needed new battery, seemed strange since I have not had the car long, over a year later car is fine. also loved when the dealer I brought my a last car to said there may be transmission problems and it would cost me just for them to make sure ,said no thanks ,never had a problem after that. I do oil changes and you will know if your brakes need replacing before there are serious issues, listen for a screeching sound when hitting brakes. Been driving over 25 years and other than once battery dying never had anything done other than new brakes and regular oil changes in my cars, oh and on my 2001 car shocks and struts once but needed it again before I got rid of it so didn't do it
Last edited by Philly30 on Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jack FFR1846
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Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

An air filter at 16k miles? I bet they didn't even open the air filter housing. At a minimum, they should bring you the old filter when they tell you that you need a new one. Air filters are NOT time required. Only mileage and for a really obsessive maintainer, that's 30k miles.

My recommendation is to find a good, honest independent mechanic. This dealer is making up stories and taking you for a ride.

How much did they charge for the air filter? A genuine Hyundai one costs $15.24.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
User avatar
Kenkat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by Kenkat »

I think that was all unnecessary maintenance:

https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

1) Interval is 30k miles, not 15k
2) I’ve never done this to any car I’ve owned, seems strange there would be an issue so soon
3) Recommendation is to Inspect at 30k; usually if brake fluid is clean and no water is present, it is ok

An anecdote - I had my car in to the dealer for a warranty issue. The service manager told me my rear brakes were down to 3mm and they recommended replacement. The car had 27,000 miles at the time. I told him, thanks, I’ll look at it. He seemed shocked that I didn’t tell them to go ahead.

The car now has 60,000 miles and my trusted local mechanic says that the rear brakes are still ok.

I’d try to find someone different you can trust.
Topic Author
student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:39 pm An air filter at 16k miles? I bet they didn't even open the air filter housing. At a minimum, they should bring you the old filter when they tell you that you need a new one. Air filters are NOT time required. Only mileage and for a really obsessive maintainer, that's 30k miles.

My recommendation is to find a good, honest independent mechanic. This dealer is making up stories and taking you for a ride.

How much did they charge for the air filter? A genuine Hyundai one costs $15.24.
Thanks. I remember my Toyota dealer gave me the old filter. At this Hyundai dealer, I was not given the old filter. It was $65 parts and labor for the air filter and to deodorize a system.
Last edited by student on Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Philly30
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:06 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by Philly30 »

My last car I also replaced timing belt at 80,000 miles but I wonder if that was not just a big waste of time at that point either, luckily my new car has no timing belt just a chain that will lat far longer
helloeveryone
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:16 pm

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by helloeveryone »

student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Flip through your owner’s manual - there should be a maintenance section and it tells you exactly what’s required. On quick google search it looks like I found the correct owner’s manual - https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

The only required ones are the ones that say replace or perform.

Dealers will ALWAYS suggest something and justify it. The person who is suggesting it is paid on commission. They are not straight hourly employees or salaried employees.
killjoy2012
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by killjoy2012 »

The challenge with your question is you're working within various shades of gray. The manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule should be your baseline and guide. Some people are going to choose to go above & beyond that baseline, such as using top shelf oil or more frequent changes, and others will choose to push the limits by doing less then the baseline thinking they are being frugal and pinching pennies - arguably jeapordizing the lifespan of the vehicle and/or increased repairs. Not sure there's a perfect answer other than if you're not sure, stick to the maintenance schedule in your manual.

1) Air filter should be changed annually IMO. It's $10-20 at your local auto parts store; less online. It takes 5 minutes to change.
2) I'd say you got taken. "Real brakes" likely is "rear brakes" (vs. front). lubicrate? lol. uh. greasing the piston? Seems like a scam w/o knowing more.
3) Flushing your brake fluid is a legit maint activity. Brake fluid is hygroscopic - absorbs moisture from the air, which can rust out your brake lines and reduce your braking performance. That said, this is probably one of the most common "legit maintenance items" that most people ignore. A lot has to do with where you live, how humid it is, how worried you are. I've seen cars go 20 years w/o changing the brake fluid, though some does get changed during brake jobs which are probably every ~75k miles or so.

I have a truck that's 2 years old, has 6k miles, and has had 4 oil changes using top shelf oil... so YMMV.
helloeveryone
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by helloeveryone »

student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:47 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:39 pm An air filter at 16k miles? I bet they didn't even open the air filter housing. At a minimum, they should bring you the old filter when they tell you that you need a new one. Air filters are NOT time required. Only mileage and for a really obsessive maintainer, that's 30k miles.

My recommendation is to find a good, honest independent mechanic. This dealer is making up stories and taking you for a ride.

How much did they charge for the air filter? A genuine Hyundai one costs $15.24.
I remember my Toyota dealer gave me the old filter. At this Hyundai dealer, I was not given the old filter. It was $65 parts and labor for the air filter and to deodorize a system.
If inclined - watch YouTube video of how to change cabin filter and engine air filter. Incredibly EASY, satisfying, and fun. As others indicate - you can buy engine air filter and cabin air filter for about $8–$15 bucks or so on amazon or at local parts store and just do it yourself.
Topic Author
student
Posts: 8128
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

Kenkat wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:41 pm I think that was all unnecessary maintenance:

https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

1) Interval is 30k miles, not 15k
2) I’ve never done this to any car I’ve owned, seems strange there would be an issue so soon
3) Recommendation is to Inspect at 30k; usually if brake fluid is clean and no water is present, it is ok

An anecdote - I had my car in to the dealer for a warranty issue. The service manager told me my rear brakes were down to 3mm and they recommended replacement. The car had 27,000 miles at the time. I told him, thanks, I’ll look at it. He seemed shocked that I didn’t tell them to go ahead.

The car now has 60,000 miles and my trusted local mechanic says that the rear brakes are still ok.

I’d try to find someone different you can trust.
You know what, I went to the same website and misread the info regarding the timing for the air filter. :oops:
Thanks. I will try to find a good local mechanic (difficult to find). I always just go to the dealer especially during the warranty period. I liked my Toyota dealer well enough to continue to go there. When I needed to get a new car in 2019, I wanted to get a Toyota again but they did not have a car that met my criteria. And Hyundai was given me a good deal. For my Hyundai, I did not like the dealer that sold me the car, so I went to a different one. I guess this one is not so good either.
Topic Author
student
Posts: 8128
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

helloeveryone wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Flip through your owner’s manual - there should be a maintenance section and it tells you exactly what’s required. On quick google search it looks like I found the correct owner’s manual - https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

The only required ones are the ones that say replace or perform.

Dealers will ALWAYS suggest something and justify it. The person who is suggesting it is paid on commission. They are not straight hourly employees or salaried employees.
Thanks for the info. For my last Toyota, I was very strict to perform exactly for the schedule asked for. Since I only did one oil change in the past 2 years due to the pandemic (but only about 4k miles), I let my guard down as I thought this may be the result of it.
Topic Author
student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

killjoy2012 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:54 pm The challenge with your question is you're working within various shades of gray. The manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule should be your baseline and guide. Some people are going to choose to go above & beyond that baseline, such as using top shelf oil or more frequent changes, and others will choose to push the limits by doing less then the baseline thinking they are being frugal and pinching pennies - arguably jeapordizing the lifespan of the vehicle and/or increased repairs. Not sure there's a perfect answer other than if you're not sure, stick to the maintenance schedule in your manual.

1) Air filter should be changed annually IMO. It's $10-20 at your local auto parts store; less online. It takes 5 minutes to change.
2) I'd say you got taken. "Real brakes" likely is "rear brakes" (vs. front). lubicrate? lol. uh. greasing the piston? Seems like a scam w/o knowing more.
3) Flushing your brake fluid is a legit maint activity. Brake fluid is hygroscopic - absorbs moisture from the air, which can rust out your brake lines and reduce your braking performance. That said, this is probably one of the most common "legit maintenance items" that most people ignore. A lot has to do with where you live, how humid it is, how worried you are. I've seen cars go 20 years w/o changing the brake fluid, though some does get changed during brake jobs which are probably every ~75k miles or so.

I have a truck that's 2 years old, has 6k miles, and has had 4 oil changes using top shelf oil... so YMMV.
Thanks for the info.
Topic Author
student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

helloeveryone wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm Dealers will ALWAYS suggest something and justify it. The person who is suggesting it is paid on commission. They are not straight hourly employees or salaried employees.
On commission. I did not know that. Thanks.
ChristiaanFrederik
Posts: 3
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by ChristiaanFrederik »

Philly30 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm My last car I also replaced timing belt at 80,000 miles but I wonder if that was not just a big waste of time at that point either, luckily my new car has no timing belt just a chain that will lat far longer
Timing belt failure can destroy your engine - much better to change it too early than too late (90,000-105,000 mile intervals are not uncommon). I lost a car once due to the timing belt breaking and destroying the engine.
User avatar
Doom&Gloom
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by Doom&Gloom »

DW has a 2020 Hyundai Santa Fe. Coincidentally, today she showed me a list of recommended maintenance items the dealer had given her on her last visit. She asked which ones she needed to have done.

A quick Google search for her owner's manual indicated that none of the half dozen or so items the dealer recommended needed to be done at this time--with the possible exception of new tires. She will go to a tire dealer we have dealt with for several years in the next couple of weeks to ask their opinion. We have checked the tread depth, and I will be surprised if they recommend new tires.

All of the other items on the dealer's service dept list were either listed as "Inspect" at her current mileage or service was not suggested for at least a few more years of "normal driving."

I'm a pretty firm believer in doing what the owner's manual recommends. I'm a pretty firm skeptic of any maintenance services the dealer's service department recommends.
StudentofFI
Posts: 17
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by StudentofFI »

Duplicating what others have said- find a local independent mechanic. Become a regular overtime and build a relationship. Facebook, Google reviews and talking to neighbors could be a good way to find one. I'm in a small town, but our local auto parts store gave light feedback on local mechanics when I first moved here.

Changing and checking the air filter for dirt is not much harder than changing your furnace filter.. at least on my vehicle. Just a latch to open it up. I have seen the air boxes screwed shut though.

You could have been tricked a lot worse!
csmath
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:32 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by csmath »

student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
For 1) Go to Youtube, search your vehicle and add "change cabin filter" and "change engine air filter" and do it yourself. Make sure to pay attention to how to remove the glove box if that is where your cabin filter is. Don't force it because often there are only little plastic tabs holding it in that can break. The engine air filter might even be easier than the cabin filter to change. You probably have full access under the hood and only need to press back a few clips holding the lid on.

For 2) This makes absolutely no sense. You literally want to do the opposite of "lubricating brakes". You want no oil at all anywhere on the rotors or braking surface of the pads. If the Piston needs lubricant, you ran out of brake fluid, which didn't happen or you would be writing an "I drove my car into an unmovable object" thread. Anytime brakes are done well the brake brackets should be lubricated. Another thing that makes sense to do during brake replacement is lubricating the caliper pins and replacing the boots. But in your situation at only 16k miles... no chance your factory pins and boots are bad unless they screwed them up at the factory or you routinely drive through a foot of water.

For 3) IMHO flushing brake fluid is overrated. Not that it shouldn't be done ever, but it certainly isn't needed routinely under normal driving conditions. I personally wouldn't consider it under 8 years/80k miles.
Topic Author
student
Posts: 8128
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

csmath wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:52 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
For 1) Go to Youtube, search your vehicle and add "change cabin filter" and "change engine air filter" and do it yourself. Make sure to pay attention to how to remove the glove box if that is where your cabin filter is. Don't force it because often there are only little plastic tabs holding it in that can break. The engine air filter might even be easier than the cabin filter to change. You probably have full access under the hood and only need to press back a few clips holding the lid on.

For 2) This makes absolutely no sense. You literally want to do the opposite of "lubricating brakes". You want no oil at all anywhere on the rotors or braking surface of the pads. If the Piston needs lubricant, you ran out of brake fluid, which didn't happen or you would be writing an "I drove my car into an unmovable object" thread. Anytime brakes are done well the brake brackets should be lubricated. Another thing that makes sense to do during brake replacement is lubricating the caliper pins and replacing the boots. But in your situation at only 16k miles... no chance your factory pins and boots are bad unless they screwed them up at the factory or you routinely drive through a foot of water.

For 3) IMHO flushing brake fluid is overrated. Not that it shouldn't be done ever, but it certainly isn't needed routinely under normal driving conditions. I personally wouldn't consider it under 8 years/80k miles.
Thanks for the info.
finite_difference
Posts: 3282
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by finite_difference »

student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:59 pm
helloeveryone wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Flip through your owner’s manual - there should be a maintenance section and it tells you exactly what’s required. On quick google search it looks like I found the correct owner’s manual - https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

The only required ones are the ones that say replace or perform.

Dealers will ALWAYS suggest something and justify it. The person who is suggesting it is paid on commission. They are not straight hourly employees or salaried employees.
Thanks for the info. For my last Toyota, I was very strict to perform exactly for the schedule asked for. Since I only did one oil change in the past 2 years due to the pandemic (but only about 4k miles), I let my guard down as I thought this may be the result of it.
You should change oil at least every year if you use full synthetic oil. Every 6 months with conventional.

Brake fluid is every 3-4 years.

Cleaning brake pads probably prolongs the life of your calipers but is a bit OCD and probably unnecessary.

Engine air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual.

Cabin air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual. Or every year if it uses charcoal.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
Topic Author
student
Posts: 8128
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

finite_difference wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:02 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:59 pm
helloeveryone wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Flip through your owner’s manual - there should be a maintenance section and it tells you exactly what’s required. On quick google search it looks like I found the correct owner’s manual - https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

The only required ones are the ones that say replace or perform.

Dealers will ALWAYS suggest something and justify it. The person who is suggesting it is paid on commission. They are not straight hourly employees or salaried employees.
Thanks for the info. For my last Toyota, I was very strict to perform exactly for the schedule asked for. Since I only did one oil change in the past 2 years due to the pandemic (but only about 4k miles), I let my guard down as I thought this may be the result of it.
You should change oil at least every year if you use full synthetic oil. Every 6 months with conventional.

Brake fluid is every 3-4 years.

Cleaning brake pads probably prolongs the life of your calipers but is a bit OCD and probably unnecessary.

Engine air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual.

Cabin air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual. Or every year if it uses charcoal.
Thanks for the info.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by jabberwockOG »

You have had good answers on Filters and Brake fluid.

Lubricating brakes might mean lubricating the caliper slide pins and disk backing pads. Lubrication on disk backing pads/shims is not typically critical - good film of lube on the backing shim helps keep brakes quiet.

On certain model cars driven in harsh winter conditions (ice, salt, sand, etc.) it is possible that slide pins would get corroded/crusty quicker than normal. Slide pins sticking are more critical to brake system. When slide pins stick the caliper may drag one or both disks on the rotor, lowering gas mileage, causing uneven/accelerated disk wear, and potentially overheating brakes (although this less common).

Under "normal" driving conditions on most models cars, slide pins do not need to be lubricated until brake pads are replaced.

We had a couple of Gen1 Toyota Highlanders - it is a model that has a tendency to freeze up caliper slide pins when it's normally driven in icy rust belt winters. I could see a dealer in the Northern US recommending lubricating slide pins on a Gen 1 Highlander every year or two.
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student
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by student »

jabberwockOG wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:41 pm You have had good answers on Filters and Brake fluid.

Lubricating brakes might mean lubricating the caliper slide pins and disk backing pads. Lubrication on disk backing pads/shims is not typically critical - good film of lube on the backing shim helps keep brakes quiet.

On certain model cars driven in harsh winter conditions (ice, salt, sand, etc.) it is possible that slide pins would get corroded/crusty quicker than normal. Slide pins sticking are more critical to brake system. When slide pins stick the caliper may drag one or both disks on the rotor, lowering gas mileage, causing uneven/accelerated disk wear, and potentially overheating brakes (although this less common).

Under "normal" driving conditions on most models cars, slide pins do not need to be lubricated until brake pads are replaced.

We had a couple of Gen1 Toyota Highlanders - it is a model that has a tendency to freeze up caliper slide pins when it's normally driven in icy rust belt winters. I could see a dealer in the Northern US recommending lubricating slide pins on a Gen 1 Highlander every year or two.
Thanks for the info.
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student
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

Thanks again for the responses. I have added a new question in the original post.

Any comments and/or insights? I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
runninginvestor
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by runninginvestor »

student wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:04 am Thanks again for the responses. I have added a new question in the original post.

Any comments and/or insights? I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
For the diagnostic for car under warranty, if I remember correctly, when my spouse recently took her car in (Toyota) they put the credit card on file. Told us the diagnostic would be charged if there wasn't anything wrong or if the repair wasn't under warranty. Otherwise, I think we would be charged a similar diagnostic fee. Fortunately The part was covered under warranty so we didn't pay anything.
Topic Author
student
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

runninginvestor wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:13 am
student wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:04 am Thanks again for the responses. I have added a new question in the original post.

Any comments and/or insights? I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
For the diagnostic for car under warranty, if I remember correctly, when my spouse recently took her car in (Toyota) they put the credit card on file. Told us the diagnostic would be charged if there wasn't anything wrong or if the repair wasn't under warranty. Otherwise, I think we would be charged a similar diagnostic fee. Fortunately The part was covered under warranty so we didn't pay anything.
Thank you. This makes sense.
ponyboy
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by ponyboy »

Go pick up an obd scanner from walmart. They're like $25. Just get the cheap one, thats what I use. Its reads the codes then use the internets to search for code. The answer will be right in front of you.
ponyboy
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by ponyboy »

finite_difference wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:02 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:59 pm
helloeveryone wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Flip through your owner’s manual - there should be a maintenance section and it tells you exactly what’s required. On quick google search it looks like I found the correct owner’s manual - https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

The only required ones are the ones that say replace or perform.

Dealers will ALWAYS suggest something and justify it. The person who is suggesting it is paid on commission. They are not straight hourly employees or salaried employees.
Thanks for the info. For my last Toyota, I was very strict to perform exactly for the schedule asked for. Since I only did one oil change in the past 2 years due to the pandemic (but only about 4k miles), I let my guard down as I thought this may be the result of it.
You should change oil at least every year if you use full synthetic oil. Every 6 months with conventional.

Brake fluid is every 3-4 years.

Cleaning brake pads probably prolongs the life of your calipers but is a bit OCD and probably unnecessary.

Engine air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual.

Cabin air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual. Or every year if it uses charcoal.
Had a 14 year old corolla with 230,000 miles, never once changed the brake fluid. Went through multiple brakes/rotors (I change them myself so relatively inexpensive to do.) Ill never change brake fluid unless brakes barely work or extremely spungee.
panhead
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by panhead »

student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm
I have a new question. The main reason I brought the car in to the dealership was the check engine light was on.

1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.
You've gotten some decent responses. I'll start with the numbered list:

1) A lot of people are focusing on mileage for this one, and sometimes that's fine...sometimes not. If you drive in a dusty dirty area often, the filter can get dirty quickly which can affect mileage. Note that many maintenance schedules have a alternate "severe duty" service schedule for these cases. Even more important, critters can get into the airbox when a car sits a long time and chew up the filter, poop all over it, make nests, etc. In this case, even with 10 miles, the filter needs to be replaced. The only way to know is to inspect it, and this should be done at every oil change at a minimum. Note that this can apply to cabin filter as well as engine filter

2) Someone else mentioned that what they may have meant was cleaning/lubricating the slide pins on the caliper. This assumes its a sliding caliper of course. When a car sits or is used in a corrosive climate (salt on roads) these slides can freeze up. This can cause all sorts of unwanted side effects. If this is what they did, and why they did it, this was a good thing to have done.

3) Some cars now have silicone brake fluid. I don't *think* the hyundai does (appears to use dot3/4). If it uses dot3/4, then flushing it is not a bad idea as it does attempt to absorb water. Silicon brake fluid is not "hydroscopic" so does not require flushing for this purpose. Again, may not have been a bad idea esp since it appears your car sits for long periods of time so maybe the fluid was contaminated or it was required based on scheduled maintenance.

The take away here is that the maintenance schedule is "more like guidelines." Things need to be looked at and evaluated first hand to know the specific vehicle's issues. If I were having this work done I would have wanted to see the engine/cabin filter, understand what "lubricating rear brakes" actually meant in this case, and why they felt flushing the brake fluid was required.

As for the check engine light, there are a lot of garages that will diagnose this for free hoping for your business. If you bring your car to the dealer and they want to charge for this service again, say thanks but no thanks and take your care where they will do this for free. You can even buy a scanner yourself, they are not that expensive.

Hope this helps,

Pan
Topic Author
student
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

panhead wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:27 am
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm
I have a new question. The main reason I brought the car in to the dealership was the check engine light was on.

1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.
You've gotten some decent responses. I'll start with the numbered list:

1) A lot of people are focusing on mileage for this one, and sometimes that's fine...sometimes not. If you drive in a dusty dirty area often, the filter can get dirty quickly which can affect mileage. Note that many maintenance schedules have a alternate "severe duty" service schedule for these cases. Even more important, critters can get into the airbox when a car sits a long time and chew up the filter, poop all over it, make nests, etc. In this case, even with 10 miles, the filter needs to be replaced. The only way to know is to inspect it, and this should be done at every oil change at a minimum. Note that this can apply to cabin filter as well as engine filter

2) Someone else mentioned that what they may have meant was cleaning/lubricating the slide pins on the caliper. This assumes its a sliding caliper of course. When a car sits or is used in a corrosive climate (salt on roads) these slides can freeze up. This can cause all sorts of unwanted side effects. If this is what they did, and why they did it, this was a good thing to have done.

3) Some cars now have silicone brake fluid. I don't *think* the hyundai does (appears to use dot3/4). If it uses dot3/4, then flushing it is not a bad idea as it does attempt to absorb water. Silicon brake fluid is not "hydroscopic" so does not require flushing for this purpose. Again, may not have been a bad idea esp since it appears your car sits for long periods of time so maybe the fluid was contaminated or it was required based on scheduled maintenance.

The take away here is that the maintenance schedule is "more like guidelines." Things need to be looked at and evaluated first hand to know the specific vehicle's issues. If I were having this work done I would have wanted to see the engine/cabin filter, understand what "lubricating rear brakes" actually meant in this case, and why they felt flushing the brake fluid was required.

As for the check engine light, there are a lot of garages that will diagnose this for free hoping for your business. If you bring your car to the dealer and they want to charge for this service again, say thanks but no thanks and take your care where they will do this for free. You can even buy a scanner yourself, they are not that expensive.

Hope this helps,

Pan
Thanks for the detailed response.
FIRWYW
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by FIRWYW »

Given your updated question. Your dealer/mechanic is completely dodgy if they are suggesting the charge you for diagnosis when car is still under warranty. If you have a separate Hyundai dealership or place that works on Hyundais I would switch. Warranty is still valid if work is done elsewhere if Hyundai certified. I had my car in at least 5 times for rattles/error codes etc in first 50k miles. All looked at without charge and a few things they spent EXTENSIVE time looking at. An error code should be completely free if still under warranty
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by Doom&Gloom »

student wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:04 am Thanks again for the responses. I have added a new question in the original post.

Any comments and/or insights? I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
"Learning more about it" is your best bet, by far.

However, your fallback position should always be "please give me a copy of exactly what I need so that I can [think about it, plan for timing the expense, discussing with my spouse, etc.]" Unless it is something that you would consider too dangerous to hop in your car and drive it home. That buys you time to research it online, check the owner's manual, get second opinions, DIY, etc.
sport
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by sport »

Two suggestions:
1. Check your car's manual for the manufacturer's maintenance recommendations.
2. Find a mechanic that won't cheat you. It is not necessary to go to the stealership for most things.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

panhead wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:27 am
3) Some cars now have silicone brake fluid. I don't *think* the hyundai does (appears to use dot3/4). If it uses dot3/4, then flushing it is not a bad idea as it does attempt to absorb water. Silicon brake fluid is not "hydroscopic" so does not require flushing for this purpose. Again, may not have been a bad idea esp since it appears your car sits for long periods of time so maybe the fluid was contaminated or it was required based on scheduled maintenance.
Who uses silicone brake fluid? This would be dot 5.0. Dot 5.1 is not silicone.

https://epicbleedsolutions.com/blogs/fa ... rake-fluid

I could see if people might be confused with 5 and 5.1. Silicone is used, to my knowledge only on show motorcycles. This is because any other brake fluid will dissolve and lift paint and if you have your motorcycle in a show, looking to win $10k prize, you certainly don't want any chance of this if someone mistakenly spins off the bar mounted brake reservoir.

Dot 5 silicone is also compressible, unlike 3, 4 or 5.1. So you push the brakes in a newly flushed system with silicone in it and it will be very mushy, feeling like there's air in the system. Also, brake systems can't switch from normal to silicone or the other direction.

You're right that silicone isn't hydroscopic, so what happens is that moisture collects as water droplets in the system and rusts components.
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miamivice
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by miamivice »

In general, I don't bother to preventively maintain my car mechanically except I am religious about oil changes and try to be religious about rotating tires. I wait until something breaks and then fix it.

It sounds like terrible advice, but the cars that we have last for a very long time and the things that have broken aren't related to preventative maintenance anyway. Modern cars just don't require a lot of tinkering.
bloom2708
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by bloom2708 »

You can go to any Auto Zone, O'Reilly's, etc auto parts store and they will read the code for $0.

I would purchase a $20 or under code reader from Amazon. It will pay for itself over and over. Even with newer cars.

You can get a corded one or a Bluetooth version that sends data to your phone. A must have for most car owners.
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enad
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by enad »

student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm Updated with a new question:

Thank you again for the responses. It seems that 1) and 3) are something that I could have delayed/avoided. So I will conclude that I wasted 50% of the cost (mental gymnastic to make me feel better). For 2) I really don't know enough about cars to make a good decision after hearing what they said unless I bring one of your experts with me (flying you in would be too expensive. :D).

I have a new question. The main reason I brought the car in to the dealership was the check engine light was on. So I made an appointment. I unscrewed and rescrewed the gas cap, drove for 30 secs. No change. The next day, I made a short trip and afterwards, the check engine light was off. But I decided to keep the appointment and have them take a look. The advisor said it would be $130 for diagnostic. I was surprised as the car is still under warranty. I told him this and he said that's the price. I found it expensive as they just need to plug in the code reader but I accepted it as I wanted to know the car is safe to drive. When I picked up the car, they said they have waived the charge. (It was caused by the O2 sensor and low voltage sensor, and they find no problem with the wiring. So no repair.)

Here is the question: Is it common for them to charge for diagnostic for a car under warranty? (Hyundai has a 5 year/60k miles new car limited warranty.) I guess at the end they did not charge it. I wonder whether this is no make sure whatever issue is covered by the warranty.

Any comments/insights? Thanks.

Original post:
For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Even if you are not car savvy, I would invest in a diagnostic device that you can plug into the car's OBD II port under the dash. There are two versions, one that has all the codes built in and another one that uses an app on the smartphone. If the check engine light comes on you can get feedback about the problem. The more information you have the better.

We have a Hyundai and a Kia (sister company that uses many of the same parts) and were never charged for diagnostics. The dealer would on some occasions recommend services that were not required. We have been using an automotive shop with mechanics who we trust implicitly. I brought the list of service recommendations to them and right off the bat he said that 2 were not required but dealers recommend them to unsuspecting customers. Kind of tells you something about the dealers but in our area there are dozens of Hyundai/Kia dealerships and at least 4 made similar recommendations on 4 of the vehicles that we have owned.

You can probably learn to change air filter and the cabin air filter yourself and save quite a bit of money as you can buy or order both filters for pennies on the dollar vs. what the dealer charges. Also if you don't have a good tire inflator you can buy one. I use Milwaukee M12/M18 tools and picked this one up

When you turn it on, you set the desired tire pressure (you can find the info on the driver's door panel), and then unscrew the cap, screw the hose on, and press the inflate button and it will automatically inflate to the set pressure. Unscrew it, put the cap back on and move to the next tire. When you're done, you can check the spare in the trunk and then put the inflator away. Try & store the inflator in the house vs. in the garage on account of the Lithium Ion battery which does not like extreme heat or extreme cold.

As for the transmission fluid there is a belief that the transmission pan should be removed and cleared of all metal shavings (when the engine is new this happens in the first 10,000 miles), Then every 12,000 miles, drain 1.25 liters of transmission fluid and replace with 1.25 liters, the transmission should easily last a long time. I dropped my pan at 50K when I found out about it, removed all the metal shavings, and since then have changed my fluid (about 1.25 liters at a time) for 1000 miles, and after the 5th change the fluid was mostly pink. If I have the car longer than 135K miles I will repeat the procedure.
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
Topic Author
student
Posts: 8128
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

FIRWYW wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:35 am Given your updated question. Your dealer/mechanic is completely dodgy if they are suggesting the charge you for diagnosis when car is still under warranty. If you have a separate Hyundai dealership or place that works on Hyundais I would switch. Warranty is still valid if work is done elsewhere if Hyundai certified. I had my car in at least 5 times for rattles/error codes etc in first 50k miles. All looked at without charge and a few things they spent EXTENSIVE time looking at. An error code should be completely free if still under warranty
Thanks for the info. There are 3 Hyundai dealerships within 20 miles of where I live. I bought the car from the one that is about 20 miles away. Something is off about this place that I did not like and it is far away, so I decided I would not use them for service. At the height of the pandemic, I saw that they charged $3k over MSRP for a compact car. For a Hyundai.... The dealership that I had my car serviced is the nearest (8 miles away) and at the height of the pandemic, they ran an ad stating that they would not charge over MSRP.
Last edited by student on Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
student
Posts: 8128
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:55 am
student wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:04 am Thanks again for the responses. I have added a new question in the original post.

Any comments and/or insights? I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
"Learning more about it" is your best bet, by far.

However, your fallback position should always be "please give me a copy of exactly what I need so that I can [think about it, plan for timing the expense, discussing with my spouse, etc.]" Unless it is something that you would consider too dangerous to hop in your car and drive it home. That buys you time to research it online, check the owner's manual, get second opinions, DIY, etc.
Thanks for the info. I remember long time ago, a dealer recommends alignment after new tires, and I said yes. Stupid me. Afterward, I checked the result, the data was epsilon away from the "optimal" before alignment and delta away from the "optimal" after alignment, both were in the acceptable range. Since then, I decline alignment and if I every feel that there is a need, I will ask them to check to see whether it is within acceptable range before doing it.
softwaregeek
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by softwaregeek »

ChristiaanFrederik wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:24 pm
Philly30 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm My last car I also replaced timing belt at 80,000 miles but I wonder if that was not just a big waste of time at that point either, luckily my new car has no timing belt just a chain that will lat far longer
Timing belt failure can destroy your engine - much better to change it too early than too late (90,000-105,000 mile intervals are not uncommon). I lost a car once due to the timing belt breaking and destroying the engine.
Correct. Follow the maintenance schedule religiously on belts. Some cars have 'interference' engines which essentially blow up if the timing belt breaks.
The following list will provide you the information on whether your car engine is an interference engine or a non-interference engine. An interference engine is one that has insufficient clearance between the valves and pistons if the cam stops turning due to a broken timing belt. The result is usually catastrophic engine failure. Not so with a non-interference engine. It pays to know.
http://yourcarangel.com/2014/07/interfe ... lete-list/
Philly30
Posts: 43
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by Philly30 »

My two biggest costs for my 2001 civic were the timing belt and key got stuck in the ignition, two things I no longer have to worry about
Topic Author
student
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

bloom2708 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:04 pm You can go to any Auto Zone, O'Reilly's, etc auto parts store and they will read the code for $0.

I would purchase a $20 or under code reader from Amazon. It will pay for itself over and over. Even with newer cars.

You can get a corded one or a Bluetooth version that sends data to your phone. A must have for most car owners.
Thanks for the suggestion. That's what my nephew asked me to do. The code probably does not mean anything to me. Hmm. Maybe I could pertain to be an expert, and tell the mechanic that I checked the code, it is the whatever sensor, please check, so that they would not try to pull a fast one. :D
Topic Author
student
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

enad wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:36 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm Updated with a new question:

Thank you again for the responses. It seems that 1) and 3) are something that I could have delayed/avoided. So I will conclude that I wasted 50% of the cost (mental gymnastic to make me feel better). For 2) I really don't know enough about cars to make a good decision after hearing what they said unless I bring one of your experts with me (flying you in would be too expensive. :D).

I have a new question. The main reason I brought the car in to the dealership was the check engine light was on. So I made an appointment. I unscrewed and rescrewed the gas cap, drove for 30 secs. No change. The next day, I made a short trip and afterwards, the check engine light was off. But I decided to keep the appointment and have them take a look. The advisor said it would be $130 for diagnostic. I was surprised as the car is still under warranty. I told him this and he said that's the price. I found it expensive as they just need to plug in the code reader but I accepted it as I wanted to know the car is safe to drive. When I picked up the car, they said they have waived the charge. (It was caused by the O2 sensor and low voltage sensor, and they find no problem with the wiring. So no repair.)

Here is the question: Is it common for them to charge for diagnostic for a car under warranty? (Hyundai has a 5 year/60k miles new car limited warranty.) I guess at the end they did not charge it. I wonder whether this is no make sure whatever issue is covered by the warranty.

Any comments/insights? Thanks.

Original post:
For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Even if you are not car savvy, I would invest in a diagnostic device that you can plug into the car's OBD II port under the dash. There are two versions, one that has all the codes built in and another one that uses an app on the smartphone. If the check engine light comes on you can get feedback about the problem. The more information you have the better.

We have a Hyundai and a Kia (sister company that uses many of the same parts) and were never charged for diagnostics. The dealer would on some occasions recommend services that were not required. We have been using an automotive shop with mechanics who we trust implicitly. I brought the list of service recommendations to them and right off the bat he said that 2 were not required but dealers recommend them to unsuspecting customers. Kind of tells you something about the dealers but in our area there are dozens of Hyundai/Kia dealerships and at least 4 made similar recommendations on 4 of the vehicles that we have owned.

You can probably learn to change air filter and the cabin air filter yourself and save quite a bit of money as you can buy or order both filters for pennies on the dollar vs. what the dealer charges. Also if you don't have a good tire inflator you can buy one. I use Milwaukee M12/M18 tools and picked this one up

When you turn it on, you set the desired tire pressure (you can find the info on the driver's door panel), and then unscrew the cap, screw the hose on, and press the inflate button and it will automatically inflate to the set pressure. Unscrew it, put the cap back on and move to the next tire. When you're done, you can check the spare in the trunk and then put the inflator away. Try & store the inflator in the house vs. in the garage on account of the Lithium Ion battery which does not like extreme heat or extreme cold.

As for the transmission fluid there is a belief that the transmission pan should be removed and cleared of all metal shavings (when the engine is new this happens in the first 10,000 miles), Then every 12,000 miles, drain 1.25 liters of transmission fluid and replace with 1.25 liters, the transmission should easily last a long time. I dropped my pan at 50K when I found out about it, removed all the metal shavings, and since then have changed my fluid (about 1.25 liters at a time) for 1000 miles, and after the 5th change the fluid was mostly pink. If I have the car longer than 135K miles I will repeat the procedure.
Thanks for the detailed response.
finite_difference
Posts: 3282
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Re: Car maintenance questions

Post by finite_difference »

ponyboy wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:18 am
finite_difference wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:02 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:59 pm
helloeveryone wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm
student wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:21 pm For my first couple of cars, I followed what the dealer recommendations and discovered that I paid for a lot of unnecessary services. (My knowledge on cars is minimal.) For my last car (Toyota), I checked owners forum and made sure that I only do what Toyota had recommended. I currently own a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq. It is at 16k miles. Due to the pandemic, I only drove about a 1k-2k per year in 2021 and likely the same in 2022. Today I finally brought the car to the dealer for oil change and tire rotation. (Last year, I did an oil change at one of those places that customers can stay in their cars.) The dealer recommended the following after an inspection.
1) Change the air filter.
2) Clean and lubricate real brakes.
3) Flush the brake fluid.

For 1), it was identified as something that needed to be done.
For 2), the advisor gave me a reason. I don't remember his exact words but I think I heard words like contact with the brake, may affect stopping distance. It was around $130, so I said ok. (Safety concerns.)
For 3), I questioned the need as the car only has 16k miles and I asked whether this is their recommendation of the manufacturer's recommendation. My recollection is that the advisor said manufacturer's recommendation every 40 months regardless of mileage. It was around $150. So I said ok. After I got my car back and I looked at the paperwork. In the paperwork, it says maintenance recommendation, flushed every two years regardless of mileage.

For 1), I know they are correct as per manufacturer stated maintenance schedule.
For 2), I am ok with that as they identified an issue. It seems too soon for a car with only 16k miles. However, I wonder whether this is due to the car not being driven very often in the past 2 years.
For 3), I am not sure whether it is necessary as I do not see the recommendation of flushing brake fluid every two years from the manual. I do see such recommendation from tire shops. This leads me to think this is an unnecessary item.

Any comments and/or insights. I am trying to learn more about it so that next time I can be better prepared. Thanks.
Flip through your owner’s manual - there should be a maintenance section and it tells you exactly what’s required. On quick google search it looks like I found the correct owner’s manual - https://owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/d ... %20QRG.pdf

The only required ones are the ones that say replace or perform.

Dealers will ALWAYS suggest something and justify it. The person who is suggesting it is paid on commission. They are not straight hourly employees or salaried employees.
Thanks for the info. For my last Toyota, I was very strict to perform exactly for the schedule asked for. Since I only did one oil change in the past 2 years due to the pandemic (but only about 4k miles), I let my guard down as I thought this may be the result of it.
You should change oil at least every year if you use full synthetic oil. Every 6 months with conventional.

Brake fluid is every 3-4 years.

Cleaning brake pads probably prolongs the life of your calipers but is a bit OCD and probably unnecessary.

Engine air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual.

Cabin air filter if it’s dirty / follow owners manual. Or every year if it uses charcoal.
Had a 14 year old corolla with 230,000 miles, never once changed the brake fluid. Went through multiple brakes/rotors (I change them myself so relatively inexpensive to do.) Ill never change brake fluid unless brakes barely work or extremely spungee.
Brake fluid longevity depends on your environment. Maybe where you live brake fluid lasts forever.

The real way is to test the brake fluid. But it’s inexpensive to simply replace it every 3-4 or 5 years. Brakes are important.

Your brakes can fail catastrophically if the fluid fails. You may not notice that it’s mushy until they are overheating and then you may have had it.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
JDave
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by JDave »

If no one has already explained this: brake fluid is EXTREMELY hygroscopic - that means it pulls water out of the air. When water contaminates the brake fluid, it rusts the brake system from the inside out. This is time, not mileage dependent. The brake fluid is pulling water out of the air even if your car sits in a garage all the time. I change my brake fluid myself every two years. That may be excessive, but I wouldn't go more than four years. Silicone brake fluid is not hygroscopic, but I am not aware of any car that comes from the factory with it. To change over from regular to silicone brake fluid requires the brake system to be disassembled and cleansed with alcohol to remove all traces of conventional fluid, because silicone and conventional fluid should not be mixed. That's a big job.
Topic Author
student
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by student »

JDave wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:35 pm If no one has already explained this: brake fluid is EXTREMELY hygroscopic - that means it pulls water out of the air. When water contaminates the brake fluid, it rusts the brake system from the inside out. This is time, not mileage dependent. The brake fluid is pulling water out of the air even if your car sits in a garage all the time. I change my brake fluid myself every two years. That may be excessive, but I wouldn't go more than four years. Silicone brake fluid is not hygroscopic, but I am not aware of any car that comes from the factory with it. To change over from regular to silicone brake fluid requires the brake system to be disassembled and cleansed with alcohol to remove all traces of conventional fluid, because silicone and conventional fluid should not be mixed. That's a big job.
Thanks for the explanation.
afr
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by afr »

miamivice wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:52 am In general, I don't bother to preventively maintain my car mechanically except I am religious about oil changes and try to be religious about rotating tires. I wait until something breaks and then fix it.

It sounds like terrible advice, but the cars that we have last for a very long time and the things that have broken aren't related to preventative maintenance anyway. Modern cars just don't require a lot of tinkering.
As long as you don’t have to replace any sensors, modules or catalytic converter you’re good to go. I’d love to see the manufacturers start offering warranty’s on those items and forget about drivetrain bs
miamivice
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by miamivice »

afr wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:09 pm
miamivice wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:52 am In general, I don't bother to preventively maintain my car mechanically except I am religious about oil changes and try to be religious about rotating tires. I wait until something breaks and then fix it.

It sounds like terrible advice, but the cars that we have last for a very long time and the things that have broken aren't related to preventative maintenance anyway. Modern cars just don't require a lot of tinkering.
As long as you don’t have to replace any sensors, modules or catalytic converter you’re good to go. I’d love to see the manufacturers start offering warranty’s on those items and forget about drivetrain bs
I'm not correlating preventative maintenance and sensors, modules, and catalytic converters? I have only replaced one sensor in my life, and that was a speed sensor in the tranny. I have never replaced a catalytic converter and am not sure how I would know if one did need to be replaced (maybe a sensor to detect emissions?). When I think of modules, I think of electronic cicuit boards and those are not related to PM maintenance.
afr
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by afr »

miamivice wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:37 pm
afr wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:09 pm
miamivice wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:52 am In general, I don't bother to preventively maintain my car mechanically except I am religious about oil changes and try to be religious about rotating tires. I wait until something breaks and then fix it.

It sounds like terrible advice, but the cars that we have last for a very long time and the things that have broken aren't related to preventative maintenance anyway. Modern cars just don't require a lot of tinkering.
As long as you don’t have to replace any sensors, modules or catalytic converter you’re good to go. I’d love to see the manufacturers start offering warranty’s on those items and forget about drivetrain bs
I'm not correlating preventative maintenance and sensors, modules, and catalytic converters? I have only replaced one sensor in my life, and that was a speed sensor in the tranny. I have never replaced a catalytic converter and am not sure how I would know if one did need to be replaced (maybe a sensor to detect emissions?). When I think of modules, I think of electronic cicuit boards and those are not related to PM maintenance.
We had to replace a power train control module in our daughter’s 2010 Mazda3 several years ago to the tune of $1500. Funny things like that are not covered under warranty for too long
miamivice
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by miamivice »

afr wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:46 pm
miamivice wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:37 pm
afr wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:09 pm
miamivice wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:52 am In general, I don't bother to preventively maintain my car mechanically except I am religious about oil changes and try to be religious about rotating tires. I wait until something breaks and then fix it.

It sounds like terrible advice, but the cars that we have last for a very long time and the things that have broken aren't related to preventative maintenance anyway. Modern cars just don't require a lot of tinkering.
As long as you don’t have to replace any sensors, modules or catalytic converter you’re good to go. I’d love to see the manufacturers start offering warranty’s on those items and forget about drivetrain bs
I'm not correlating preventative maintenance and sensors, modules, and catalytic converters? I have only replaced one sensor in my life, and that was a speed sensor in the tranny. I have never replaced a catalytic converter and am not sure how I would know if one did need to be replaced (maybe a sensor to detect emissions?). When I think of modules, I think of electronic cicuit boards and those are not related to PM maintenance.
We had to replace a power train control module in our daughter’s 2010 Mazda3 several years ago to the tune of $1500. Funny things like that are not covered under warranty for too long
Oh, I've done plenty of maintenance, I just don't do preventative maintenance.
panhead
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Re: Car maintenance questions Updated with a new question

Post by panhead »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:47 am
panhead wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:27 am
3) Some cars now have silicone brake fluid. I don't *think* the hyundai does (appears to use dot3/4). If it uses dot3/4, then flushing it is not a bad idea as it does attempt to absorb water. Silicon brake fluid is not "hydroscopic" so does not require flushing for this purpose. Again, may not have been a bad idea esp since it appears your car sits for long periods of time so maybe the fluid was contaminated or it was required based on scheduled maintenance.
Who uses silicone brake fluid? This would be dot 5.0. Dot 5.1 is not silicone.

https://epicbleedsolutions.com/blogs/fa ... rake-fluid

I could see if people might be confused with 5 and 5.1. Silicone is used, to my knowledge only on show motorcycles. This is because any other brake fluid will dissolve and lift paint and if you have your motorcycle in a show, looking to win $10k prize, you certainly don't want any chance of this if someone mistakenly spins off the bar mounted brake reservoir.

Dot 5 silicone is also compressible, unlike 3, 4 or 5.1. So you push the brakes in a newly flushed system with silicone in it and it will be very mushy, feeling like there's air in the system. Also, brake systems can't switch from normal to silicone or the other direction.

You're right that silicone isn't hydroscopic, so what happens is that moisture collects as water droplets in the system and rusts components.
I researched this further and you are correct. My Harley (and most if not all of the newer ones) are equipped with DOT 5 from the factory, and many people who have older collector cars run dot 5 as well. That being said, apparently dot 5 doesn't work with anti lock brakes so no cars run this from the factory.
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