How is the market for new cars today?

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tc101
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How is the market for new cars today?

Post by tc101 »

How is the market for new cars today? Is there more choice and/or better deals than a year ago?

I was going to buy a new car a year ago but decided to put it off because of the lack of available cars, hence the lack of choice and higher prices. Has it gotten any better than a year ago?
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by jebmke »

Based on my thrice weekly drive past three dealers on the way to my gym, I'd say not much has changed. The lots look empty. I also get periodic calls from one dealer asking if I would like to sell my 2008 RAV4. When I ask them what they have to trade I get a lot of happy talk that usually ends in "you can order a new car" based on the fairly limited models they have on hand or can get a hold of immediately.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Volando »

It probably depends on what you’re looking for. We were able to find a new Honda Pilot without much difficulty and under MSRP. On the other hand, we were also looking for a Toyota Sienna and were not able to find any. All the dealers had them on a wait list and over MSRP.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by tc101 »

I just read this is "The Economist"
Panic buying amid last year’s global chip shortage has left many carmakers and manufacturers of business hardware with inventories overflowing with silicon.
https://www.economist.com/business/2022 ... y-meltdown

That indicates to me that the shortage of cars based on the shortage of chips is ending.
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FrugalConservative
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by FrugalConservative »

I'm in the market for a new family suv. Nothing has changed as of yet ( still lack of inventory, dealer addon, over msrp, etc). Received a call from a local Toyota Dealer two weeks ago. They have a new 2023 Sequoia. He said they are only adding $5k to the msrp and said I should jump as that is a steal. All in 78K. Suffice to say, I said heck no.
indexfund56
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by indexfund56 »

I’d highly recommend trying the Costco Auto buying program. I had success using it back in March to secure a car at slightly below MSRP. Other dealers in the area all had markups. Waited about six weeks for the car (Honda CR-V) and no surprises when I went to finalize the transaction and pick up the vehicle. Also worth noting that this dealer didn’t have any of these vehicles on the lot and could have very easily marked up the price, but they honored the Costco price. If you are a Costco member, it is worth a shot.
Last edited by indexfund56 on Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ktdintex
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by ktdintex »

I see signs that the market is slightly better, but it really depends on the specific model you're shopping. I've been looking for an F-150, and you can get a pretty good discount from MSRP if you're willing to place an order and wait at least a few months. The Ford dealers don't even require a deposit.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

It depends on the maker and even the model. Stellantis (Chrysler) appears to be the biggest in getting inventory. BMW is also recovering well. Subaru is also said to be recovering fast.

When you go to the website of a dealer and hit new cars, it will give you a number. But peruse the pages of cars and look for the "in transit" tags that may be on lots of cars. I went to my Subaru dealer who has 93 new cars. Of those, taking 11 pages, less than 2 pages are actually at the dealer. The rest are "in transit". So that's certainly better than the local Cadillac dealer had 2 months ago when I test drove a car. 5 new cars on the lot.

I have also found that when a new delivery truck arrives, even the 5 car Cadillac dealer who had a CT4 I drove that was "over MSRP" became "at MSRP" when the truck arrived with more cars.

On the chip buying side, we are seeing some customers asking about reducing quantity in future NCNR orders. Lead times are still over a year, but if orders can be diverted to another customer, that could reduce lead times. As far as car availability and prices, it's going to vary all over the map. A local exotic used car dealer bought up a bunch of new cars about 9 months ago. So if you want a Porsche GT car or a Maserati MC20 or GT Mercedes or Lotus Evora, they have them with under 1000 miles. But most are from $25k to $200k over new MSRP. Their "value" is that if you want a car NOW, you can buy one.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by baconavocado »

The car dealer lots I drive by regularly are still empty, with the exception of the Tesla lot. I've been told that the Teslas have all been pre-ordered and are waiting for their owners to pick them up.

I'm also wondering if high gas prices are having any effect on the type of cars people are buying.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by lthenderson »

tc101 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:57 am How is the market for new cars today? Is there more choice and/or better deals than a year ago?
Just went through this last week. We could pick any car we wanted and it went on a waiting list that got submitted to the manufacturer and we may or may not get the exact vehicle we want sometime in the upcoming year. In our case, we are wanting a Toyota RAV4 Prime. Toyota, as of September, doesn't allow you to spec out cars that get submitted on the wish list and don't require any sort of down payment. Our local dealer gets their allotment (6 cars a month in our rural part of the world) and they are what they are. Since we are the only Prime people on the wish list, we get first choice whenever any Prime is delivered as part of their allotment. If it isn't what we want we can pass and it gets sold to someone else. If we want what was delivered, we put $500 down to secure it until things like insurance paperwork and financing is completed.

As far as pricing goes, last month they were going for several grand over MSRP but the dealership was sold and the new dealer only sells at MSRP (less the $500 deposit) for the time being. According to them, this is probably the way it will be for the next 18 months according to what Toyota is telling them.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Johnny Thinwallet »

We finally bought our new 2022 Accord last week. This was a car we ordered and put a deposit down back in late May so a 4.5 month wait. We paid MSRP for the Accord. No market adjustment. Some dealers required a market adjustment ranging from $1k to $5k, and they didn't get our business. We bought from a dealer 30 miles away that offered it to us at straight MSRP.

We debated trying to wait it out, but the 2022 Accord is replacing our old 2007 Accord with 192k miles on it. It is likely that the 2023 Accord will be a redesign of a new generation, and for the most part I really prefer to avoid the first 1-2 years of any redesign. Doing so would push the wait out to 2025, at which point the 2007 Accord would be 18-years-old and have 225k+ miles on it. My wife didn't like that idea.

I also figured the MSRP is only going to go up on new cars so I'd probably be paying more in 3 years for a new car than I am now. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows.

As far as the 2007 Accord, I'll be getting ready to sell it in about a week. A neighbor has been patiently waiting for 3 months, and we've already agreed on a price. Maybe she'll come through. If not, then I'll just list it on FB Marketplace and see what happens. But the price I'll be selling it for is probably $1,500 higher than I'd get in a normal car market. So the high prices works both ways.
Last edited by Johnny Thinwallet on Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by DoubleComma »

We have been looking for a new SUV, a few makes/models are acceptable, but we have specific configuration requirements. We are not in a rush and not willing to pay a market adjustment/dealer mark up. We started to looking in the spring, at the time every dealership was pre-selling vehicles they had on order with a $10k market adjustment. They would accept an order, but wanted the adjustment still. We passed.

Last month we started getting calls from several dealers offering in-transit vehicles with no or very little market adjustment; but the configurations were wrong. At this time they aren't willing to accept orders, siting various things like the factory switch over from 22 to 23 or some other excuse. We believe they aren't interested in special orders because they want to sell their inbound 2022 to maintain value before allowing a 2023 to be ordered.

As recent as yesterday we were offered 2 vehicle at $500 below MSRP...again wrong configuration.

We expect in the next few weeks, maybe a month, we will be able to special order exactly what we want and get it for MSRP or lower.

Anecdotally I would say the market is softening, but still expect it will be a long time before we see pre-pandemic sales -- if we ever see them again.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by firebirdparts »

You can see what's out there from your computer. Not much effort.

Around here there are some new cars available. I haven't taken a poll, so I would presume at about MSRP but of course ask.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by tc101 »

I just did a google on "are car prices going down". There are lots and lots of articles about this, all written in the last month. You can read all you want about it.

JP Morgan Research says:

New car prices are rising due to an ongoing chip shortage and increased raw material costs. In the U.S., the average price of a new vehicle was up 6.3% in the last year.

This has fueled demand for used cars. Average prices were up 42.5% in September 2022 vs. February 2020.

Used car prices have likely peaked, but new car prices are set to remain elevated through end-2022. In 2023, prices are expected to decline by 2.5% to 5% for new cars and by 10% to 20% for used cars.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by flyingaway »

Just looked at our local Toyota dealer's web page, they added $2,000 to the MSP for RAV 4 and call it "dealer's adjustment".
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by snackdog »

Plenty of Toyota Corollas for sale near me. 2023 about 2% over MSRP. 2022 discounted.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by smitcat »

Many of the new cars that are advertised as 'in transit' are really sold vehicles - they automatically populate the car dealers' websites until the transaction is completed.
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Post by Bogle7 »

After waiting 13-1/2 months, we bought our new VW ID.4 home yesterday.
MSRP + $250 market adjustment.
We were on vacation in Europe when it arrived at the dealer 10 days ago and the dealer tried to sell it to someone else.
Our auto broker prevented that. He earned his $600 fee for that action and for getting us a very good trade in value for our 2007 Audi.
Last edited by Bogle7 on Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by tc101 »

Our auto broker prevented that. He earned his $600 fee for that action and for getting us a very good trade in value for our 2007 Audi.
What exactly does an auto broker do and how do you find a good one?
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by MtnTravel »

My observation is that things are changing. I was looking at a Volvo last year, and there was nothing in stock, and the few CPO models they had on the lot were priced higher than their newer equivalents. We stopped looking, but now, based on the emails I keep getting, prices have calmed down (if not dropped) and there are many more CPO models available at reasonable prices.

Not sure about new models though... They may still be backordered.
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Auto broker value

Post by Bogle7 »

tc101 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:04 pm What exactly does an auto broker do and how do you find a good one?
1. In a normal market, the broker gets the car at the fleet price and the adds his/her fee so you pay less than haggling with dealer. This is not true today. Fleet price discounts are non-existent as far as I a tell.
2. The broker removes haggling with dealer.
3. The broker can arrange test drives of various cars without you having to visit multiple dealers.

I found a good via Yelp.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by ChinchillaWhiplash »

Not good. Pre-orders and in-transit. Not many in stock and on the lot to choose from. And manufactures are dropping “cars”. Ford only has the Mustang now. Lincoln doesn’t make any cars anymore. Some other companies probably have limited models of cars down to a few with lots of crossover and SUV options to choose from. So the market for “cars” is going down the toilet.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Planner01 »

Today I bought a 2023 Silver RX 350. I paid $750 over MSRP, which was $52,250 and I paid $53,000. I had them include window tinting, and two years of service. Negotiation took about 30 minutes.

The dealership only had three 2023 RX in the parking lot. A copper color, dark green and the silver. The silver one they had just brought in the day before from another dealership, so it had 42 miles on it. It has many cool options, which I like.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by JamesG »

Also be aware that since mid 2020, some carmakers have removed vehicle features in response to the chip shortage. So, even though volumes might be recovering, it might pay to check that the car has not had pre-covid tech removed.
Eg see: https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/r ... p-shortage
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by surfinagin »

Realize that the topic is new cars, but used car prices generally track accordingly-
Therefore sharing link to this Edmunds Trade-In Value History price tracker
SUV I'm interested in has lowered $4K since March, from 31K to 27K, and the retail prices are also lowering.

https://www.edmunds.com/appraisal/history/
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Tubes »

I've been pinging local inventories lately and notice a very slight uptick in cars on the lot.

But it depends greatly on Make and Model.


Toyotas are popular and apparently they managed the supply shortages poorly. I have seen no increase in Toyota inventories, any model. As previously mentioned, the "inventory" is fake. It is vehicles already purchased that are in transit. You can search for news articles and find that Toyota 2022 production will fall very short of 2021 production. They currently (November) have many manufacturing plants idled due to supply shortages.

Some GM cars are starting to land on lots and stay.

Some less desirable models in other makes are also showing up in inventory.

It has to start somewhere...
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by RobLyons »

I follow the market and it seems the huge markups are becoming less common. Expect some markups for some vehicles to continue for several more months. For example, a brand new Corvette was just posted at MSRP and this has been unheard of for 2 years. The supply shortage should be slowly returning to a new normal but don't expect pre 2020 levels anytime soon.

From a kbb.com blurb:
"Acura, Buick, Cadillac, and Mercedes-Benz dealers sold most cars for 1% or more below MSRP in October. BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, and Porsche sold cars for an average of at least 3% over sticker price."
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by lazydavid »

It's getting better, but nowhere near back to normal. I put a deposit down in October, expect to get an allocation in January for a February build, with an April delivery, so ~6 mos total. If I did that one year ago, I would be looking at an August build and October delivery, or a full year.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by smitcat »

RobLyons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:42 am I follow the market and it seems the huge markups are becoming less common. Expect some markups for some vehicles to continue for several more months. For example, a brand new Corvette was just posted at MSRP and this has been unheard of for 2 years. The supply shortage should be slowly returning to a new normal but don't expect pre 2020 levels anytime soon.

From a kbb.com blurb:
"Acura, Buick, Cadillac, and Mercedes-Benz dealers sold most cars for 1% or more below MSRP in October. BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, and Porsche sold cars for an average of at least 3% over sticker price."
"From a kbb.com blurb:
"Acura, Buick, Cadillac, and Mercedes-Benz dealers sold most cars for 1% or more below MSRP in October. BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, and Porsche sold cars for an average of at least 3% over sticker price.""
Of course, those MSRP listings are after the recent run up in pricing and do not qualify required options and additions.

"For example, a brand new Corvette was just posted at MSRP and this has been unheard of for 2 years."
Typically a posting like this is just a posting, not the actual price you will pay if the car is really available. There will likely be an added ADM and/or financing or dealer 'package' required to secure purchase.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by RobLyons »

smitcat wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:44 am
RobLyons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:42 am I follow the market and it seems the huge markups are becoming less common. Expect some markups for some vehicles to continue for several more months. For example, a brand new Corvette was just posted at MSRP and this has been unheard of for 2 years. The supply shortage should be slowly returning to a new normal but don't expect pre 2020 levels anytime soon.

From a kbb.com blurb:
"Acura, Buick, Cadillac, and Mercedes-Benz dealers sold most cars for 1% or more below MSRP in October. BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, and Porsche sold cars for an average of at least 3% over sticker price."
"From a kbb.com blurb:
"Acura, Buick, Cadillac, and Mercedes-Benz dealers sold most cars for 1% or more below MSRP in October. BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, and Porsche sold cars for an average of at least 3% over sticker price.""
Of course, those MSRP listings are after the recent run up in pricing and do not qualify required options and additions.

"For example, a brand new Corvette was just posted at MSRP and this has been unheard of for 2 years."
Typically a posting like this is just a posting, not the actual price you will pay if the car is really available. There will likely be an added ADM and/or financing or dealer 'package' required to secure purchase.


From the kbb response, this shows the trend of prices coming back down rather than increasing.

For the Vette, no added ADM, or dealer package required. He listed all fees and there's none out of the ordinary. Tax, title, registration, delivery. I'm not talking some ad from a dealership with a catch. We are all long term enthusiasts and know to look out for that stuff.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Fogbank »

I thought this article about Nissan was interesting:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 022-11-09/

It's mostly about Nissan cutting production (purportedly due to continued chip shortages,) but buried in there is this:
Nissan declined to specify how many units of production will be lost. Through Sept. 30, Nissan U.S. sales are down 31% to about 538,000.

The email to dealers said "Nissan’s total dealer inventory has more than doubled in the last 60 days and is up (about) 70% compared to the same time last year."
That's a pretty substantial sales slow-down, at least for Nissan.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by smitcat »

RobLyons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:16 pm
smitcat wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:44 am
RobLyons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:42 am I follow the market and it seems the huge markups are becoming less common. Expect some markups for some vehicles to continue for several more months. For example, a brand new Corvette was just posted at MSRP and this has been unheard of for 2 years. The supply shortage should be slowly returning to a new normal but don't expect pre 2020 levels anytime soon.

From a kbb.com blurb:
"Acura, Buick, Cadillac, and Mercedes-Benz dealers sold most cars for 1% or more below MSRP in October. BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, and Porsche sold cars for an average of at least 3% over sticker price."
"From a kbb.com blurb:
"Acura, Buick, Cadillac, and Mercedes-Benz dealers sold most cars for 1% or more below MSRP in October. BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, and Porsche sold cars for an average of at least 3% over sticker price.""
Of course, those MSRP listings are after the recent run up in pricing and do not qualify required options and additions.

"For example, a brand new Corvette was just posted at MSRP and this has been unheard of for 2 years."
Typically a posting like this is just a posting, not the actual price you will pay if the car is really available. There will likely be an added ADM and/or financing or dealer 'package' required to secure purchase.


From the kbb response, this shows the trend of prices coming back down rather than increasing.

For the Vette, no added ADM, or dealer package required. He listed all fees and there's none out of the ordinary. Tax, title, registration, delivery. I'm not talking some ad from a dealership with a catch. We are all long term enthusiasts and know to look out for that stuff.
"From the kbb response, this shows the trend of prices coming back down rather than increasing."
I do not know what KBB if referring to but all of the models I had been keeping track of have gone up in pricing and/or have increased the net price on optioned vehicles through extra cost options or packages. While I agree the trend is down the tracking of past to current MSRP is somewhat misleading.

"We are all long term enthusiasts and know to look out for that stuff."
A couple of days just last week I was attempting to help a neighbor get a 2023 C8 at MSRP without getting on one of the major dealer lists. We did call quite a few locations and did drive to two of them with no luck. On one corvette forum and ion Facebook there recently were a number of claims that you could get them at MSRP - when we asked where these cars are there were no replies and/or they had some form of 'markup'.

"For the Vette, no added ADM, or dealer package required. He listed all fees and there's none out of the ordinary. Tax, title, registration, delivery. I'm not talking some ad from a dealership with a catch"
Which configuration did you order? When it the anticipated delivery? And which dealer did you use?
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by stoptothink »

Anecdote from yesterday: my friend went to two different dealerships to try to order a '23 Corolla GR and both told him they would not agree on a price at order but there would be an ADM, and that the wait would be 18-24 months. Not sure how relevant that is because it is an in-demand vehicle, but it was pretty shocking.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by lazydavid »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:44 am Anecdote from yesterday: my friend went to two different dealerships to try to order a '23 Corolla GR and both told him they would not agree on a price at order but there would be an ADM, and that the wait would be 18-24 months. Not sure how relevant that is because it is an in-demand vehicle, but it was pretty shocking.
Yeah a brand-new, highly-anticipated, limited-production vehicle is probably not the best barometer of the overall state of the car market. Enthusiasts have been waiting for the GR Corolla's launch for several years now, ever since we didn't get the GR Yaris. And there will only be 6,600 of them total for the US, with 1,500 of those being the circuit edition, and 200 being the Morizo edition. So even if your friend is not after one of the ultra-limited editions, there are still only 4,900 Core editions to go around. Unfortunately that scarcity means ADMs come with the territory.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by White Coat Investor »

tc101 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:57 am How is the market for new cars today? Is there more choice and/or better deals than a year ago?

I was going to buy a new car a year ago but decided to put it off because of the lack of available cars, hence the lack of choice and higher prices. Has it gotten any better than a year ago?
I ordered a loaded Ford F-250 in December 2021, custom built to order, brand new. In November 2022, the dealership informed me it wouldn't be built. So I have ordered another one, a 2023 this time, that I expect to get by the end of Summer.

Hard to get a very good deal with that kind of supply challenges. They've already sold all of these that they are going to make for 2023. But I managed to find a dealership that would sell it to me at 2% under invoice. This year their deal is $1500 over invoice, but they're giving me last year's deal because I got hosed. I do have to go to Iowa to pick it up.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Tubes »

Toyota is under the highest pressure from shortages. Plus they are popular. Forget about anything Toyota for now. If you really want one, you will pay. Or maybe you'll blindly have one shipped to you even if it is used (see current active thread: viewtopic.php?t=391178) Toyota's CEO recently warned the shortages are nowhere near solved.

Other brands are getting some inventory. Toyota does not reflect the entire market. Of course, it appears to me it is a Bogleheads favorite brand so perhaps most important in this community. But if one is willing to look elsewhere, you can start finding something here and there.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Carguy85 »

FrugalConservative wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:25 pm I'm in the market for a new family suv. Nothing has changed as of yet ( still lack of inventory, dealer addon, over msrp, etc). Received a call from a local Toyota Dealer two weeks ago. They have a new 2023 Sequoia. He said they are only adding $5k to the msrp and said I should jump as that is a steal. All in 78K. Suffice to say, I said heck no.
Oh come on, $5k over 60mo is less than a latte a day. :D I’m totally being facetious btw. Our 17 Sequoia now has nearly 120k mi and has been awesome since new…especially on road trips. We have never kept a vehicle this long actually. Toyota did me a huge favor by going green on all of the the new Sequoias and having the hybrid battery among other things take up a very significant amount of cargo space. Also, after seeing pics of some new Tundra cabs having to be separated from the frames due to faulty waste gates (same new engine), I don’t think I would want to chance it with a new Sequoia. Thanks again Toyota…I’ll hang on to my 20 Tundra for a long time as well. Got it in June of ‘20 right off the delivery truck for $2500 under invoice before pricing changed(some would say for good).
Planner01
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Planner01 »

Planner01 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:57 pm Today I bought a 2023 Silver RX 350. I paid $750 over MSRP, which was $52,250 and I paid $53,000. I had them include window tinting, and two years of service. Negotiation took about 30 minutes.

The dealership only had three 2023 RX in the parking lot. A copper color, dark green and the silver. The silver one they had just brought in the day before from another dealership, so it had 42 miles on it. It has many cool options, which I like.
Yesterday I went back to the dealership to get my windows tinted and while waiting I asked about the other two 2023 RX 350 that were there two days ago when I bought mine. They sold them within hours!!! The sales manager said that they had no idea when they would get the next shipment of 2023 RX. It’s a new design and in high demand. I got lucky I paid 1.4% over MSRP ($750).
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8foot7
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by 8foot7 »

Can’t get an allocation on a BMW X5. Still waiting.
toomanysidehustles
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

Carguy85 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:32 pm
FrugalConservative wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:25 pm I'm in the market for a new family suv. Nothing has changed as of yet ( still lack of inventory, dealer addon, over msrp, etc). Received a call from a local Toyota Dealer two weeks ago. They have a new 2023 Sequoia. He said they are only adding $5k to the msrp and said I should jump as that is a steal. All in 78K. Suffice to say, I said heck no.
Oh come on, $5k over 60mo is less than a latte a day. :D I’m totally being facetious btw. Our 17 Sequoia now has nearly 120k mi and has been awesome since new…especially on road trips. We have never kept a vehicle this long actually. Toyota did me a huge favor by going green on all of the the new Sequoias and having the hybrid battery among other things take up a very significant amount of cargo space. Also, after seeing pics of some new Tundra cabs having to be separated from the frames due to faulty waste gates (same new engine), I don’t think I would want to chance it with a new Sequoia. Thanks again Toyota…I’ll hang on to my 20 Tundra for a long time as well. Got it in June of ‘20 right off the delivery truck for $2500 under invoice before pricing changed(some would say for good).
I test drove the new Sequoia and it is a BEAST on road and off (TRD Pro). Non- removable 3rd row and bulging battery pack be damned! I'd throw on a rocket box on the roof if I need more space. This is coming from someone who owns 100 and 200 series land cruisers. :)
Valuethinker
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Valuethinker »

Tubes wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:51 am I've been pinging local inventories lately and notice a very slight uptick in cars on the lot.

But it depends greatly on Make and Model.


Toyotas are popular and apparently they managed the supply shortages poorly. I have seen no increase in Toyota inventories, any model. As previously mentioned, the "inventory" is fake. It is vehicles already purchased that are in transit. You can search for news articles and find that Toyota 2022 production will fall very short of 2021 production. They currently (November) have many manufacturing plants idled due to supply shortages.

Some GM cars are starting to land on lots and stay.

Some less desirable models in other makes are also showing up in inventory.

It has to start somewhere...
I believe most cars in North America are now bought on credit, with terms of over 5 years on loans not uncommon?

The upticks in interest rates in USA and Canada have to be biting - cutting affordability.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by dknightd »

tc101 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:57 am How is the market for new cars today? Is there more choice and/or better deals than a year ago?

I was going to buy a new car a year ago but decided to put it off because of the lack of available cars, hence the lack of choice and higher prices. Has it gotten any better than a year ago?
As others have said, it probably depends on what you want. And perhaps where you live.
There will always be some models that are in high demand, and some with lower demand. You get a better "deal" on a car nobody else wants. But you may not want it either!

I might be wrong, but it would not surprise me if new car buying has changed forever. I suspect dealers like to have cars sold before they actually show up on the lot. This way they do not have to pay storage costs, and insurance, and then deeply discount cars that did not sell.

My last new car purchase was almost surreal. The models I was interested in were not available for a test drive. I basically had to trust what other test drivers said in their reviews. I gave them a $500 refundable deposit. I agreed to pay MSRP. I waited 3 months! My first time driving the vehicle was when I took it home!

Luckily it turned out fine. I got exactly what I wanted. 2022 Highlander Hybrid Limited. With 12" display and factory tow hitch. I even got the colors I preferred both inside and out.

I don't know if I should call it our giant sized economy car, or, the luxo barge.

edit: it is rated 35mpg city, 34 mpg highway. I'm getting around 32 mpg overall. Pretty amazing. Not as rugged as my 1994 Toyota truck, not as fast as my 2002 BMW cic. But I'm happy enough with it so far.
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
h82goslw
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by h82goslw »

Planner01 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:02 am
Planner01 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:57 pm Today I bought a 2023 Silver RX 350. I paid $750 over MSRP, which was $52,250 and I paid $53,000. I had them include window tinting, and two years of service. Negotiation took about 30 minutes.

The dealership only had three 2023 RX in the parking lot. A copper color, dark green and the silver. The silver one they had just brought in the day before from another dealership, so it had 42 miles on it. It has many cool options, which I like.
Yesterday I went back to the dealership to get my windows tinted and while waiting I asked about the other two 2023 RX 350 that were there two days ago when I bought mine. They sold them within hours!!! The sales manager said that they had no idea when they would get the next shipment of 2023 RX. It’s a new design and in high demand. I got lucky I paid 1.4% over MSRP ($750).
I’m shocked a ‘23 RX was $53K out the door. I’ve been looking at Highlanders and I’m easily at that price for the model I want (not even top of the line). Is yours an AWD?
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Tubes
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Tubes »

dknightd wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:14 am I might be wrong, but it would not surprise me if new car buying has changed forever. I suspect dealers like to have cars sold before they actually show up on the lot. This way they do not have to pay storage costs, and insurance, and then deeply discount cars that did not sell.
To be fair, new car buying has been changing since the advent of the internet. Additionally, the improved reliability has certainly changed things over the last few decades. Dealers now focus on rip off service fees maintenance and service instead of sales.

This shortage has likely pushed things to a different level. However, to be like this -- in chronic shortage -- is likely to not go on forever. The automobile CEOs and dealers are singing this tune because it has helped them to some degree. But not completely. The shortage is also hurting a lot of them because they don't have the volume they need.

We have to remember that auto manufacturers are incentivized by their shareholders to push volume and revenue. They also have workers and parts inventory on the lines that they have to manage. When times are slow, do you lay off workers and eat supply inventory, or continue production and push them to dealer lots and give an incentive the dealers and customers? We'll have to see how this plays out.

I've bought into some change, but I haven't completely bought into the mantra that this terrible experience and panic for customers is a forever thing.

And one more thing: are customers going to be OK forever buying without a test drive?
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by dknightd »

Tubes wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:00 am
And one more thing: are customers going to be OK forever buying without a test drive?
I agree. It is a changing market place. I wonder how many Ford model T owners bought their car sight unseen. I suspect most of them.
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
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Tubes
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Tubes »

People were buying houses site unseen out of the Sears catalog. They'd get a pile of sticks on a rail car.

Flash forward to 2021. People are buying houses site unseen without inspection. Sometimes they end up with a pile of moldy sticks sort of assembled into the shape of a house. :oops:

I guess history repeats?
Planner01
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Planner01 »

h82goslw wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:44 am
Planner01 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:02 am
Planner01 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:57 pm Today I bought a 2023 Silver RX 350. I paid $750 over MSRP, which was $52,250 and I paid $53,000. I had them include window tinting, and two years of service. Negotiation took about 30 minutes.

The dealership only had three 2023 RX in the parking lot. A copper color, dark green and the silver. The silver one they had just brought in the day before from another dealership, so it had 42 miles on it. It has many cool options, which I like.
Yesterday I went back to the dealership to get my windows tinted and while waiting I asked about the other two 2023 RX 350 that were there two days ago when I bought mine. They sold them within hours!!! The sales manager said that they had no idea when they would get the next shipment of 2023 RX. It’s a new design and in high demand. I got lucky I paid 1.4% over MSRP ($750).
I’m shocked a ‘23 RX was $53K out the door. I’ve been looking at Highlanders and I’m easily at that price for the model I want (not even top of the line). Is yours an AWD?
It’s a premium model, 2WD (I live in Florida).
$53k was the price if the vehicle, before taxes. Total it came out to almost $57K.
Fogbank
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Fogbank »

dknightd wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:14 am As others have said, it probably depends on what you want. And perhaps where you live.
There will always be some models that are in high demand, and some with lower demand. You get a better "deal" on a car nobody else wants. But you may not want it either!

I might be wrong, but it would not surprise me if new car buying has changed forever. I suspect dealers like to have cars sold before they actually show up on the lot. This way they do not have to pay storage costs, and insurance, and then deeply discount cars that did not sell.

My last new car purchase was almost surreal. The models I was interested in were not available for a test drive. I basically had to trust what other test drivers said in their reviews. I gave them a $500 refundable deposit. I agreed to pay MSRP. I waited 3 months! My first time driving the vehicle was when I took it home!

Luckily it turned out fine. I got exactly what I wanted. 2022 Highlander Hybrid Limited. With 12" display and factory tow hitch. I even got the colors I preferred both inside and out.

I don't know if I should call it our giant sized economy car, or, the luxo barge.

edit: it is rated 35mpg city, 34 mpg highway. I'm getting around 32 mpg overall. Pretty amazing. Not as rugged as my 1994 Toyota truck, not as fast as my 2002 BMW cic. But I'm happy enough with it so far.
Thanks for posting your experience with the Highlander Hybrid, we're looking at those too.... There's a new 2021 left on a lot nearby here with MSRP a bit over $42k (plus $700 "dealer fee"...) We're not quite ready to pull the trigger yet but I've been thinking about whether or not I could get a discount on MSRP on that unit since it's 2 model years old now... It doesn't quite have all the features we would like (It's an LE) but it might be worth it.
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by dknightd »

Fogbank wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:50 am

Thanks for posting your experience with the Highlander Hybrid, we're looking at those too.... There's a new 2021 left on a lot nearby here with MSRP a bit over $42k (plus $700 "dealer fee"...) We're not quite ready to pull the trigger yet but I've been thinking about whether or not I could get a discount on MSRP on that unit since it's 2 model years old now... It doesn't quite have all the features we would like (It's an LE) but it might be worth it.
I'm amazed there is a 2021 Highlander Hybrid still sitting on the lot. Even an LE. You should test drive it. If they will let you. The driving experience will be about the same as a newer model. Except the LE will have fewer bells and whistles. And it might not be as comfortable, or quiet, as the higher trims. It will at least let you test the drive train, which I think is the same in all models. Who knows, they might knock off a few dollars. But then you would be buying a car that nobody else wants. I've done that before, then 10-20 years later regretted it.

I suspect the dealer will get MSRP on it even after sitting for 2 years. Which is amazing! Somebody will come in, needing a new car today. Buy it, and drive it off the lot, happy they did not have to wait. The wait can be difficult.

Some simple math. The LE costs about $42k. Our limited cost about $52k. I assume a Toyota is good for at least 10 years. So $1k more per year. I can afford that.
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
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Tubes
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Re: How is the market for new cars today?

Post by Tubes »

dknightd wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:21 am
Fogbank wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:50 am

Thanks for posting your experience with the Highlander Hybrid, we're looking at those too.... There's a new 2021 left on a lot nearby here with MSRP a bit over $42k (plus $700 "dealer fee"...) We're not quite ready to pull the trigger yet but I've been thinking about whether or not I could get a discount on MSRP on that unit since it's 2 model years old now... It doesn't quite have all the features we would like (It's an LE) but it might be worth it.
I'm amazed there is a 2021 Highlander Hybrid still sitting on the lot. Even an LE. You should test drive it. If they will let you. The driving experience will be about the same as a newer model. Except the LE will have fewer bells and whistles. And it might not be as comfortable, or quiet, as the higher trims. It will at least let you test the drive train, which I think is the same in all models. Who knows, they might knock off a few dollars. But then you would be buying a car that nobody else wants. I've done that before, then 10-20 years later regretted it.

I suspect the dealer will get MSRP on it even after sitting for 2 years. Which is amazing! Somebody will come in, needing a new car today. Buy it, and drive it off the lot, happy they did not have to wait. The wait can be difficult.

Some simple math. The LE costs about $42k. Our limited cost about $52k. I assume a Toyota is good for at least 10 years. So $1k more per year. I can afford that.
I'm going to guess this car has some mileage on it and was an employee "demonstrator" that was never titled. In my state, dealers can sell cars as new that fall under that category. They can have a few hundred to low thousands of miles, and still be "new." One who buys one of these should get a decent discount. In this market, the dealer wants MRSP+700, instead of plus thousands. There's your discount. :oops:
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