People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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Neus
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People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Neus »

To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by LeftCoastIV »

If active fund managers cannot consistently beat the market, it is unlikely that you will do so over any meaningful period of time. Sure, you'll hear about people that bought TSLA early, or BTC early. Great for them, but good luck repeating those outlier successes and avoiding losses. Some people may advocate for setting aside a small portion (say, 5%) of your portfolio as fun money, so you can "scratch the itch" to be active. If that works for you, and avoids larger risk, it's worth considering.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by typical.investor »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
  • contemplate the meaning of life
  • realize you are fine with what you have
  • recognize that a little more gain isn't worth the risk of having to go back to work
  • notice how market downturns and loss affect you differently now
  • find enjoyment in something that isn't possibly going to hurt you permanently
  • join an international thread and discover it is endless
  • come to understand that time while plentiful is limited and recovery might not be soon enough
  • follow the world (included economics and the market) because it is interesting
  • help others understand when you can because it reminds yourself
  • maintain your good habits and don't let yourself go downhill
  • know from your experience you have been wrong as @#$% before
  • vow not to make the same mistake again
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

There are many people here and other places that stay on top of what’s going on in the world, including the world of finance, and stay the course.

If there is any correlation between staying informed and trading activity I’ve never been made aware of it. I would expect that being uninformed actually causes bad personal finance outcomes.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by 1moreyr »

spend your time doing what you planned to do when you hit FIRE...

I never recall thinking "I can't wait until I retire so i can manage my funds full time"

I do recall saying - "Life is short and there is a lot in this world to enjoy before it's too late".

1. DW and I have been retired for 6 months and have traveled for 3 of them.
2. Tomorrow, MY 80 year old father and I are going for a motorcycle ride.
3. I am studying up on Alaska as we are considering a road trip from New England to Alaska next year.

True confession on the financial side

I am, however, spending time on my bond portion of my portfolio to LMP as opposed to straight bond funds. They are being aligned between my financial needs and covering the gap until SS. I always understood bonds but I am learning more and learning is good.

I am also tracking my expenses rather closely in my first year to ensure I am on track. SORR and inflation were always my biggest concerns in retirement. Here I am In my first year of retirement, I am at risk for both.

I always thought my analysis of "do I have enough for retirement?" would be over when I got here.
It actually just changed focus. My passive investing strategy hasn't changed outside a little bond work.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by alpine_boglehead »

You could just mostly forget about finance. Just put an entry in your calendar so that once a year, you rebalance and check your IPS, refill a cash buffer etc.

Now that that's done, get a life. Off with you to a beautiful beach or cabin in the mountains. All of the world's greatest literature and art and music is at your disposal, only a movement of your index finger away. See your friends, visit your nephew-in-law you haven't seen in 5 years. Go through the world with open eyes and maybe help those who were less lucky.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by samsoes »

1moreyr wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:35 am
I am, however, spending time on my bond portion of my portfolio to LMP as opposed to straight bond funds.
What's LMP?
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by 1moreyr »

samsoes wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:54 am
1moreyr wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:35 am
I am, however, spending time on my bond portion of my portfolio to LMP as opposed to straight bond funds.
What's LMP?

Liability matching portfolio- grok's first post explains it better than I can :happy

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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Wiggums »

We are busy in retirement — just no longer working on mega corp tasks. Yay. MIL passed away so we are doing the accounting for my FIL. I only logon once a month to get our balances and download statements. New stock purchases are automated and we buy a treasuries bill here and there. We are three fund portfolio - buy and hold investors.

I have an app on my phone that reminds me of all the tasks I have to complete. For example, plan trip to Italy, change smoke alarm batteries, change furnace filters, shop for new car, replace fence, replace roof, etc. I like that app over a calendar because some tasks cannot be missed so I like the constant nag me reminder.

We walk daily and my DW is very familiar with our finances. I think that is super important. Needless to say, the days go by quickly.
Last edited by Wiggums on Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by blaugranamd »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Trading stocks shouldn't ever be a solution to boredom... 😳
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Wiggums »

blaugranamd wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:21 am
Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Trading stocks shouldn't ever be a solution to boredom... 😳
+1
Investors need to be better informed about the costs they pay. “High fund fees can be hazardous to your wealth in the same way that high calories can be hazardous for your health.”
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by 22twain »

Take up some hobbies, especially mind-exercising ones, to keep your mind off finances. I always had them even when I was working.
It's "IRMAA" (Income Related Monthly Adjustment Amount), not "IIRMA" or "IRRMA" or "IRMMA".
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by JoeRetire »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Find things to excite you, other than investing.

Why would you retire at all if you didn't have anything to do other than investing?
This is gonna be my time. Time to taste the fruits and let the juices drip down my chin. I proclaim this: The Summer of George!
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by jebmke »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
I went sailing
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Neuron »

Wiggums wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:24 am
blaugranamd wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:21 am
Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Trading stocks shouldn't ever be a solution to boredom... 😳
+1
+2
Having a lot of excitement from your investing is a bad thing. When is comes to marriage and money, stability is a feature, not a flaw.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Da5id »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
I'm FIRE and am baffled by the question. Investing was never my hobby. I like dancing and travelling instead :) Bogleheads is somewhat of a hobby/interest, but somehow I can do that without being intrigued by active investing etc. If reading Bogleheads makes you too antsy about your investments, I'd suggest not reading Bogleheads honestly.

Retiring early without hobbies or goals seems like a bad idea for many people. Some of us need structure and activities to be happy, and there are lots of hours of the day once a full time job ends. Trying activities and finding ones that bring you happiness seems like a good life choice to me.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by mptfan »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 amno tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course...
I watch professional football but it does not create the urge for me to play because I know I would get seriously injured. Likewise, following the market is a spectator sport for me.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by AlohaJoe »

blaugranamd wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:21 am
Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Trading stocks shouldn't ever be a solution to boredom... 😳
Yeah I find the whole premise bizarre. It's like saying, "Hey retired people, how do you avoid becoming heroin junkies to relieve the boredom?"

Like the only thing between you and terrible life choices was a 40-hour workweek....
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by livesoft »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 amWhat do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Specifically? I go out backpacking days at a time where there is no internet, no cell service, and sometimes even no trails. And then when I get back, I live vicariously through all the Market Timers here on Bogleheads.org while helping them to make millions of dollars.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by quietseas »

Check cost basis to see if it is possible to tax loss harvest a few shares.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Da5id »

quietseas wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:59 am Check cost basis to see if it is possible to tax loss harvest a few shares.
Yeah, this has been an unusually "active" year for me trading wise. I've done a few rounds of TLH already, and the year is hardly over.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by JayB »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
I retired in my 50's and with a 100% LMP portfolio (all zero-coupon bonds held to maturity, no stocks or stock funds) that is about as interesting day-to-day as watching paint dry. So I put my financial acumen towards helping family and friends be more financially secure. This has given me a lot of pleasure and benefited them substantially.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by sureshoe »

Neuron wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:29 am
Wiggums wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:24 am
blaugranamd wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:21 am
Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Trading stocks shouldn't ever be a solution to boredom... 😳
+1
+2
Having a lot of excitement from your investing is a bad thing. When is comes to marriage and money, stability is a feature, not a flaw.
+3

If you want to have excitement from investing - become a financial planner or broker, lose other people's money.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by radiowave »

OP as for staying the course, if you have a good plan, e.g. IPS, just execute and enjoy life. I look at my portfolio the end of every month and update my spreadsheet and that's it.

As for boredom, a report of my first year of retirement . . . lots of things to do, a long list of house projects completed, and hiking a few miles almost every day. I have a good hobby that keeps me active with lots of local folks, been cooking for my spouse (she loves it), and have had family and friends visit from around the country. Only thing I have not done that I really wanted to do in early retirement, is international travel. But that seems to be an emerging possibility in the coming months. I'll report back next summer :)
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Mike Scott »

The entire basic index investing strategy is pretty dull once you have it up and running. However, all the positives helps me be OK with little excitement in investing. I don't want excitement from my investments. My desire to "tinker" gets directed to DIY tax planning, hobbies etc.

If you are just bored in general, maybe you should look for a job, start a business, spend time with family, find a new hobby or something.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by sailaway »

Watch the sunrise
Yoga
Hiking
Board games
Read the interwebz
Plan my next trip
Boat projects
Dancing
Read a book
Teach hobby related classes
Talk to my mama
Talk to my spouse
...

Frankly, I appreciate that my money doesn't take up all that much of my time. I have far better things to do. Even discussing theories about wealth is far more interesting to me than actually moving my money around.
Last edited by sailaway on Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by willthrill81 »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 amWhat do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Make something other than investing your hobby.

If you cannot do that, then only 'play invest' with a tiny proportion of your portfolio.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by AerialWombat »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Buy a boat. You’ll then have an endless stream of things to spend time on, such as using your boat, fixing your boat, shopping for toys to bolt on to your boat, and talking to other boaters about your boat.

There’s no time to fiddle with your portfolio, but plenty of things to spend your portfolio on, when you have a boat.

In other words, have hobbies.
This post is a work of fiction. Any similarity to real financial advice is purely coincidental.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by trinc »

I can understand the point, a lot of activities = money... as I would look at ( early ) retirement as doing the things i couldn't do while working.

Right now, i could see a reluctance to spending.

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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by 1hotjava »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
I certainly don't plan to make my retirement all about managing my portfolio. Once a quarter I plan to do 'maintenance' on it, thats it. Otherwise its going to be working my 'no responsibility job' that I enjoy doing, traveling, woodworking and whatever else strikes my fancy.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by H-Town »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
We do a lot of traveling. At least 8 weeks a year.

I also enjoy weight lifting and outdoor activities (hiking, kayaking, etc.)

We either get busing living or get busy dying.
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Marseille07 »

Is this about boredom in FIRE? I don't see why one would associate FIRE and staying the course, since it should go without saying whether you FIREd or not.

One would need to find things to do in post-FIRE life regardless of how they invest. If they can't find something, volunteering / part time work etc etc might be on the horizon.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by chris319 »

Make something other than investing your hobby.
For some people investing is their thrill/hobby. If that is the case, simply set up a make-believe paper portfolio and knock yourself out. Then you can come back here and tell us what a brilliant stock picker you are.

It beats day trading with real money.

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My paper portfolio: -14.0%
Wilshire 5000: -15.0%
S&P 500: -13.4%

Nowadays you can't leave the house without worrying about picking up some disease, so that puts the kibosh on travel.
Last edited by chris319 on Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by dan7800 »

I check my account basically every day. I rarely touch them. Basically, I just do things such as TLH and using issued dividends to buy VTI/VXUS in my taxable account.

I login, see how good it is to be a BH; and then I live my life.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by the_wiki »

I find for people that can't resist messing with their portfolio, a robo-only portfolio can help. You do lose a bit on fees (0.25%-0.30%) for the service, but it takes away the ability to mess with things and frees you from the responsibility of worrying about allocations. For certain personalities, it is worth the fee for removing the emotional and mental stress involved.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by mptfan »

chris319 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:55 am Nowadays you can't leave the house without worrying about picking up some disease, so that puts the kibosh on travel.
I beg to differ.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Marseille07 »

chris319 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:55 am Nowadays you can't leave the house without worrying about picking up some disease, so that puts the kibosh on travel.
If you use caution, you can still travel. Outside is safe, hotel rooms are generally safe. The wildcard is dining if they seat you next to someone who might have it.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by stoptothink »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:22 am
chris319 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:55 am Nowadays you can't leave the house without worrying about picking up some disease, so that puts the kibosh on travel.
If you use caution, you can still travel. Outside is safe, hotel rooms are generally safe. The wildcard is dining if they seat you next to someone who might have it.
I'd argue that it is no less safe to travel now than it has ever been. Everything you do in life poses a risk and always has, it's that fear-mongering wasn't always such a profitable business.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (how you spend your money and your time).
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

If you can't find something to occupy your attention other than fiddling with your portfolio, go back to work.

Perhaps something will dawn on you.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Ed 2 »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
I pretend like I am dead.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by pkcrafter »

Neus, you've gotten plenty of good answers, but here is a good summation from John Bogle:

"Don't do something, just stand there"


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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Atgard »

Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
Many others have commented on finding other more fun hobbies instead of tinkering with finances but I assume that's not really what you mean.

I personally do enjoy tracking spending and investing on spreadsheets, so I check my accounts once a month and track them, keep an eye on my AA, maybe even tinker a bit especially when it comes to buying individual bonds/treasuries/CDs. That lets me spend some time keeping an eye on things and not getting "bored." That doesn't mean I make drastic swings or try to time the market or day trade! (For me, seeing prices does not induce an urge to deviate from the course; if this is a problem for you then perhaps not looking is preferable.)

To me, tracking my returns over time, watching net worth accumulate, reducing spending, getting closer to FI, etc. is exciting/fun/interesting/rewarding. I guess it's kinda like keeping score, some sort of "rush" to counterbalance all that delayed gratification...
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by bob60014 »

sureshoe wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:50 am If you want to have excitement from investing - become a financial planner or broker, lose other people's money.
Funniest thing I've read! Unfortunately, it's sad, in that it can be true.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Brianmcg321 »

Take up bunji jumping.
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by GreenLawn »

I'm still new enough to investing that even though I'm retired I spend lots of time studying it. For example I just started purchasing Treasury Bills a few months ago when they paid better than savings accounts.

The seemingly random wanderings of the stock market intrigue me too. We've just barely started a recession, if we've started one at all, and the stock market is already taking off. Bizarre!

Yes I will get bored with investing eventually and that's fine. I'll still pull the trigger when there are huge jumps or dips in the market (buying low and selling high) but for the most part I'll find something else to focus on.
renter
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by renter »

In my case at least, the efforts will shift to roth conversions, redeeming i bonds and avoiding or minimizing taxes related to redemption, mananging all the accrued tax losses, otherwise minimizing taxable income, and getting the best insurance for least cost under the ACA. That's plenty for me to alleviate any boredom from our boring investments.
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Neus
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Neus »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:29 am If active fund managers cannot consistently beat the market, it is unlikely that you will do so over any meaningful period of time. Sure, you'll hear about people that bought TSLA early, or BTC early. Great for them, but good luck repeating those outlier successes and avoiding losses. Some people may advocate for setting aside a small portion (say, 5%) of your portfolio as fun money, so you can "scratch the itch" to be active. If that works for you, and avoids larger risk, it's worth considering.
Well I do that initially, to scratch that itch, but then i got greedy :oops:
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Neus
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Neus »

typical.investor wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:27 am
Neus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:14 am To those who have FIRE and Stay the course (no tampering/no active trading, so no use of following the market as it may create an urge to deviate from the course)

What do you do specifically to not get bored with this proven but boring stay-the-course method?
  • contemplate the meaning of life
  • realize you are fine with what you have
  • recognize that a little more gain isn't worth the risk of having to go back to work
  • notice how market downturns and loss affect you differently now
  • find enjoyment in something that isn't possibly going to hurt you permanently
  • join an international thread and discover it is endless
  • come to understand that time while plentiful is limited and recovery might not be soon enough
  • follow the world (included economics and the market) because it is interesting
  • help others understand when you can because it reminds yourself
  • maintain your good habits and don't let yourself go downhill
  • know from your experience you have been wrong as @#$% before
  • vow not to make the same mistake again
Nice!

What do you refer to by "international thread"?
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Neus
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Re: People who has FIRE + Stay the course, how to deal with boredom?

Post by Neus »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:55 am There are many people here and other places that stay on top of what’s going on in the world, including the world of finance, and stay the course.

If there is any correlation between staying informed and trading activity I’ve never been made aware of it. I would expect that being uninformed actually causes bad personal finance outcomes.
Ah nice to know that i can follow finance news could have no effect on staying the course
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