Buying an electric car for work?

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thegonejackal5
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Buying an electric car for work?

Post by thegonejackal5 »

I'm about to start a new job that will require quite a bit of regional travel going to locations around New York City to Philadelphia. As such my current 1 car household will need to get a second vehicle. I know its terrible timing to be buying a vehicle, used or new, but I'll need it for work.

Due to a mix of personal convictions as well as the availability of chargers where I live, I'm seriously considering getting an EV, or a plug in hybrid.
We can put down approximately $15k - $20k comfortably and would be fine paying up to $700 a month for financing purposes. This would be a purchase not a lease. In addition to looking at models that still have the $7500 tax credit, my employer reimburses miles at the federal rate of .585 cents per mile. Currently, I'm fortunate enough to have charging available at about 10 cents a kilowatt-hour.

I'm looking at the Kia Niro EV, and the Hyundai Kona Electric, both of which have battery packs that I think would cost about $7-$8 to charge from empty to full at that rate above.

I guess my question is this, what are your thoughts on buying an EV for work, especially if the travel will be well within the ability of an EV's battery to handle? Am I thinking about this right, that if I'm getting reimbursed for mileage, then considering how cheap my charging rates currently are, then the markup over MSRPs that I'm seeing everywhere are substantially less painful? I mean... if I drive 10k miles a year for work, that means I'm getting reimbursed close $6k a year, and my charging costs shouldn't be anywhere near that. Would you buy a new EV given these conditions, in this current economy? Thanks for your thoughts
WhyNotUs
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by WhyNotUs »

I used one for 5 years for business purposes. I think it was 51 cents a mile standard rate back then. I was getting 4 miles per Kwh so a mile was 2.5 cents for fuel. Worked out really well. DW mostly drives our newer one since she has been driving more than I since COVID broke out.
plugshare is a great app to put on your phone in case you need to find a plug.
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oxothuk
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by oxothuk »

You also might want to consider the Nissan Leaf Plus models, which have a 220 mile range. Still eligible for the tax credit, more available, and much less expensive than other EVs on the market.

One thing to keep in mind with any EV is that charging away from home will be much more expensive than charging at home - comparable to filling a gasoline car in my experience. So your best use case will be when your total daily driving is within your range and you can charge at home each night.
Sgal8713
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Sgal8713 »

I think you are the perfect situation for an EV, particularly if you can get at home charging. Lots of driving on a second car in a (relatively) small radius. Even a 400 mile round trip can easily be managed with a charge over lunch. Sounds like you have a great price arbitrage plan there.

Some other options are the VW ID4 and Kia EV6. The Leaf isn't a bad option either. I currently on the wait list for the Ford Mach-E, but reservations are closed for the foreseeable future due to supply issues.
mervinj7
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by mervinj7 »

Sgal8713 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:39 pm I think you are the perfect situation for an EV, particularly if you can get at home charging. Lots of driving on a second car in a (relatively) small radius. Even a 400 mile round trip can easily be managed with a charge over lunch. Sounds like you have a great price arbitrage plan there.

Some other options are the VW ID4 and Kia EV6. The Leaf isn't a bad option either. I currently on the wait list for the Ford Mach-E, but reservations are closed for the foreseeable future due to supply issues.
+1 It looks like OP has near ideal situation for a work EV.
One suggestion I have is to place an preorder for the EV at dealer that will price it closer to MSRP.
thegonejackal5 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:32 am I'm about to start a new job that will require quite a bit of regional travel going to locations around New York City to Philadelphia. As such my current 1 car household will need to get a second vehicle. I know its terrible timing to be buying a vehicle, used or new, but I'll need it for work.
Do you know what daily range you need? Could you charge at home overnight?
slicendice
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by slicendice »

Also another benefit in this scenario is less regularly scheduled maintenance for the EV. If you end up driving 15 to 20k per year for work it adds up. No oil changes, spark plugs, engine coolant etc... Primarily brakes (tend to last a lot longer in EV), brake fluid, and tires.
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thegonejackal5
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by thegonejackal5 »

Thanks for everyone's feedback so far. The furthest I'll have to go, one way, is about 200 miles. Most of the other sites I'll be going to are around 10-90 miles away from home.

Yes I do have charging available at home.

The things that are making me think twice about this are as follows:
1. My sense is that EV's will undoubtedly need a battery pack change sometime during my attempt to drive this car into the ground. A huge expense that combustion engine owners don't ever have to encounter.
2. I've heard occasional rumbles about local governments and states wanting to tax EV owners to make them pay 'their fair share' of road maintenance and upkeep costs that are usually collected via taxes on gas. Not sure if anyone has any more detailed news on how serious a threat this is or not?

Thanks again folks!
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by hunoraut »

thegonejackal5 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:14 pm Thanks for everyone's feedback so far. The furthest I'll have to go, one way, is about 200 miles. Most of the other sites I'll be going to are around 10-90 miles away from home.

Yes I do have charging available at home.

The things that are making me think twice about this are as follows:
1. My sense is that EV's will undoubtedly need a battery pack change sometime during my attempt to drive this car into the ground. A huge expense that combustion engine owners don't ever have to encounter.
2. I've heard occasional rumbles about local governments and states wanting to tax EV owners to make them pay 'their fair share' of road maintenance and upkeep costs that are usually collected via taxes on gas. Not sure if anyone has any more detailed news on how serious a threat this is or not?

Thanks again folks!
The Niro and Kona are last-gen stuff, built on a mixed purpose platform. I would look at the EV6 or Ioniq, which is current-gen and designed from the ground-up.

1. The electric motor is a mechanically very system unit. If you consider that the battery is the functional equivalent of motor, transmission, and fueling system, and the 100s of components and sub-assemblies that go into it, over a lifetime the total cost of servicing, including replacement, is probably not dissimilar. Think of changing oil, filters, sensors, timing chains, belts, alternators, starters, etc...

2. I think the political pressure of promoting green is stronger than pressure of equalizing road tax. Not a commentary on whats right or proper or ethical... just a guess on what will happen.
02nz
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by 02nz »

It seems like an EV would be a good fit for your situation. I have a Niro EV and love it - it's a very practical and comfortable vehicle with no significant faults other than the rather loud sound it makes backing up. I would recommend it over the Kona EV, which feels rather cramped inside by comparison. However, as another poster noted the Ioniq 5 and EV6 have some advantages, and the price difference isn't huge (but will depend on dealer markups).
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by audioengr »

Have you looked at the VW ID4?

The VW dealer I talked to said you put $100 deposit down on the VW.com website.
They contact you later to confirm interest and collect another $400 for total refundable deposit of $500.
When I was looking at it, they were selling at MSRP and they're eligible for the $7500 Fed Tax Credit.
This was a few months ago, so I don't know what the lead times look like now.

I test drove an early ID4. Really nice.
I thought it drove pretty similar to my wife's Honda CR-V. It was really quiet though, much quieter than the CR-V.
Sgal8713
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Sgal8713 »

thegonejackal5 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:14 pm Thanks for everyone's feedback so far. The furthest I'll have to go, one way, is about 200 miles. Most of the other sites I'll be going to are around 10-90 miles away from home.

Yes I do have charging available at home.

The things that are making me think twice about this are as follows:
1. My sense is that EV's will undoubtedly need a battery pack change sometime during my attempt to drive this car into the ground. A huge expense that combustion engine owners don't ever have to encounter.
2. I've heard occasional rumbles about local governments and states wanting to tax EV owners to make them pay 'their fair share' of road maintenance and upkeep costs that are usually collected via taxes on gas. Not sure if anyone has any more detailed news on how serious a threat this is or not?

Thanks again folks!
1. That is somewhat of an unknown at this time, but early data looks pretty reassuring. With the exception of the early Leaf, most of the new EVs are showing 75-80% battery life at 8-10 years or 100,000 (I will try to find the link for my claims) If even reasonably accurate, something with all the mechanical parts of ICE will have been "driven to the ground" by then. I don't think we will see large scale main battery replacement of EVs as the battery doesn't just stop working, it becomes less efficient and less valuable (but worthwhile to someone). My parents still have a 2011 Leaf with original battery that only gets about 40 miles with charge, but is still used daily. Different folks, different strokes.

2. The Southeast is pretty bad about that. EV owners pay a $200 yearly tax instead of $25-50 gas tax (cuz well, no gas). I think it is poorly thought out, but not an insurmountable barrier nor does it change the financial calculus of owning an EV. The northeast's general approach would probably be more generous to EV owners. Wary of wading into off-limit topics, so I won't say any more.
Last edited by Sgal8713 on Fri May 13, 2022 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sgal8713
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Sgal8713 »

https://www.cars.com/articles/your-guid ... on-446126/

Pretty good article about battery degradation. Being in cold weather, I would consider the longer range models as you will get a range decrease due to temp.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by mrb09 »

oxothuk wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:17 pm You also might want to consider the Nissan Leaf Plus models, which have a 220 mile range. Still eligible for the tax credit, more available, and much less expensive than other EVs on the market.
I'm a happy leaf owner, and they're still a good deal if you charge at home, but their older standard fast charger is getting harder to find if you need to charge on the road.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by alexander29 »

I own a Tesla and after two years it has had just a few percent battery degradation and no maintenance cost. Battery packs are lasting hundreds of thousands of miles. EVs are quiet, quick, and in a wintry place mine heats the cabin faster than a gas car or can be preheated. The navigation system, for finding addresses for your work, is superb. I pay the same electric rate as you and it costs me about $7 for nearly 300 miles of range. But if you have to use public chargers, rates can be double or triple. And, since it's not a good idea to routinely charge the lithium battery pack to 100 percent, or run it to zero, the practical routine range is usually not as high as promised. Range also declines in cold and slick weather. If you drive 100 miles in a work day, a 200-mile range should leave you worry free, and if you need 200 miles a day then look for 300 mile range. Lots of good choices besides Tesla now.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by audioengr »

I read Tesla is using a different type of battery in its standard range vehicles.
LFP - lithium-iron-phosphate
They don't have the capacity of the NCA - Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide.
But they are more stable, can charge to 100% every time (normal batteries usually only charge to 80%, then slow way down)

The article says that Ford and VW are also looking at this type of battery.
No Nickel, no Cobalt would save a lot of money.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-s ... -cars.html
02nz
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by 02nz »

Sgal8713 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:29 pm
thegonejackal5 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:14 pm Thanks for everyone's feedback so far. The furthest I'll have to go, one way, is about 200 miles. Most of the other sites I'll be going to are around 10-90 miles away from home.

Yes I do have charging available at home.

The things that are making me think twice about this are as follows:
1. My sense is that EV's will undoubtedly need a battery pack change sometime during my attempt to drive this car into the ground. A huge expense that combustion engine owners don't ever have to encounter.
2. I've heard occasional rumbles about local governments and states wanting to tax EV owners to make them pay 'their fair share' of road maintenance and upkeep costs that are usually collected via taxes on gas. Not sure if anyone has any more detailed news on how serious a threat this is or not?

Thanks again folks!
1. That is somewhat of an unknown at this time, but early data looks pretty reassuring. With the exception of the early Leaf, most of the new EVs are showing 75-80% battery life at 8-10 years or 100,000 (I will try to find the link for my claims) If even reasonably accurate, something with all the mechanical parts of ICE will have been "driven to the ground" by then. I don't think we will see large scale main battery replacement of EVs as the battery doesn't just stop working, it becomes less efficient and less valuable (but worthwhile to someone). My parents still have a 2011 Leaf with original battery that only gets about 40 miles with charge, but is still used daily. Different folks, different strokes.

2. The Southeast is pretty bad about that. EV owners pay a $200 yearly tax instead of $25-50 gas tax (cuz well, no gas). I think it is poorly thought out, but not an insurmountable barrier nor does it change the financial calculus of owning an EV. The northeast's general approach would probably be more generous to EV owners. Wary of wading into off-limit topics, so I won't say any more.
I agree with these. There are very, very few EVs that have needed batteries replaced. Most EVs other than the LEAF have active cooling for the battery and are holding up well. And you can minimize battery wear by avoiding charging to 100% unless actually needed (e.g.,for a road trip) - most EVs allow you to set a threshold, e.g., 80%, which will greatly reduce loss of range over time.
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Watty
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Watty »

thegonejackal5 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:32 am I guess my question is this, what are your thoughts on buying an EV for work, especially if the travel will be well within the ability of an EV's battery to handle?
1) When I am shopping for a new car one main criteria that I use is that it qualifies as being a top safety pick and if it gets a "+" rating that is even better.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety ... rd-winners

I have not researched it but in just glancing through it I did not see a lot of full electric cars on that list and the ones that I saw are might be too expensive for you. Maybe there is something else going on that I do not know, like they are not testing them all. I would make sure that any car that you will be driving that much is a very safe car. It could be that you would want to stick with a hybrid if they have better safety ratings.

2) It sounds like you will be driving a lot of miles each year so be sure to consider how long the car warranty will last. Some cars like Hyundai's have a much longer warranty.

3) There is a chance that the new job will not work out or a year or two from now it may change a lot. Be sure to get a car that will still work for you in a lot of different scenarios.

4) If you do ever need to get the battery replaced you may be able to get a used battery from a damaged car or a refurbished battery. Keep that in mind when you are looking at how much that might cost you some day.

5) Before you buy get insurance quotes for several different cars that you are considering. The price may vary by more than you expect.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by 02nz »

Watty wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:52 pm I have not researched it but in just glancing through it I did not see a lot of full electric cars on that list and the ones that I saw are might be too expensive for you. Maybe there is something else going on that I do not know, like they are not testing them all. I would make sure that any car that you will be driving that much is a very safe car. It could be that you would want to stick with a hybrid if they have better safety ratings.
Indeed the IIHS is not testing all the cars on the market, often only higher-volume ones, and EVs are still (with a few exceptions) relatively low-volume models. However, the ICE version of the Kona and the hybrid version of the Niro that the OP is considering achieved excellent results in IIHS test results, and the EV versions are almost certainly comparable (the crash structure is large the same between the ICE/hybrid and pure BEV versions of these cars).
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by WhyNotUs »

When we sold our 2013 leaf it had 82000 miles after 7 years and still had all 12 bars, 94% of original. In the mountains of colorado and ungaraged. Our Toyota Sienna required a new engine after 120000 miles due to an oil hose failing. $9,000. Much more than a new battery pack will likely cost you.

CO has a $50 registration fee for EVs, i am delighted to share in the cost of road maintenance as a user.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by windaar »

I drive a 2009 car that is going strong. Kelly Blue Book value is 8K+. If it were electric (if there had been such a thing then) it would be on an ash heap. I would not consider an electric unless completely informed and convinced about the longevity of such a vehicle and the cost of battery replacement. As I read it now those numbers are not reassuring.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Katietsu »

hunoraut wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:28 pm 2. I think the political pressure of promoting green is stronger than pressure of equalizing road tax. Not a commentary on whats right or proper or ethical... just a guess on what will happen.
Thirty states already have special registration fees for EV cars to compensate for the loss of tax on gas. Most seem to be between $50 and $200 a year. Some states are considering a per mile option. I believe I read an article that the stated that a vehicle driven 15,000 a year @24 mpg would generate $237 on average for a state in gas tax. If there is a push later to recoup more of lost tax revenue, it seems that the $20 a month rate would be as good a guess as any at what this aspect of EV ownership might cost.

Some of these same states have tax credits or other incentives for purchasing an EV so it is not necessarily a position statement on promoting green.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by onourway »

windaar wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:04 pm I drive a 2009 car that is going strong. Kelly Blue Book value is 8K+. If it were electric (if there had been such a thing then) it would be on an ash heap. I would not consider an electric unless completely informed and convinced about the longevity of such a vehicle and the cost of battery replacement. As I read it now those numbers are not reassuring.
Do you have anything to back that statement up? As in this very thread, I know a large number of people with EV's, many of them as old as 2012 MY, and don't know of any that have required battery replacement (other than in a recall).
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by eric321 »

The IRS reimbursement rates are updated each year. Hopefully they will increase with the increase in fuel prices.

Depending on how much city vs highway driving you will be doing maybe a plug in hybrid may make sense. Tradition engines good for highway driving and winter, battery good for regeneration. Markups vary widely by model in this market but anecdotal evidence suggest things are getting better.

If you have a lot of highway driving, consider EVs with driving assist. Ford mustang Mach-e with blue cruise and Chevrolet bolt with supercruise.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Every so often, go into a big parking lot and nail the brakes as hard as you can. A couple of my friends have Teslas and never did this so instead of the advantage of never having to change brake pads, they had to change the brake calipers that froze up for a couple thousand dollars. Salt in the northeast will make this worse.
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GT99
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by GT99 »

oxothuk wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:17 pm You also might want to consider the Nissan Leaf Plus models, which have a 220 mile range. Still eligible for the tax credit, more available, and much less expensive than other EVs on the market.

One thing to keep in mind with any EV is that charging away from home will be much more expensive than charging at home - comparable to filling a gasoline car in my experience. So your best use case will be when your total daily driving is within your range and you can charge at home each night.
2 things on this...
1. for this use case, I'd want a car with minimum 250 miles of range. EVs get worse range on highways and unless you're going pretty slowly, a Leaf Plus is highly unlikely to make it 200 miles without charging, especially in the winter.

2. Could be different in the northeast, but the majority of times I charge away from home it's free. Grocery stores/shopping centers and office buildings are almost always free.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by GT99 »

windaar wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:04 pm I drive a 2009 car that is going strong. Kelly Blue Book value is 8K+. If it were electric (if there had been such a thing then) it would be on an ash heap. I would not consider an electric unless completely informed and convinced about the longevity of such a vehicle and the cost of battery replacement. As I read it now those numbers are not reassuring.
Why would you comment on a topic you clearly know little about?

I've been driving EVs for 8 years. Outside of tires, brakes and windshield wipers, my total maintenance cost has been $0. There are plenty of EVs out there with over 200k miles on the original battery. Maintenance costs are a major advantage for EVs, not a disadvantage.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by onourway »

GT99 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:35 pm
windaar wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:04 pm I drive a 2009 car that is going strong. Kelly Blue Book value is 8K+. If it were electric (if there had been such a thing then) it would be on an ash heap. I would not consider an electric unless completely informed and convinced about the longevity of such a vehicle and the cost of battery replacement. As I read it now those numbers are not reassuring.
Why would you comment on a topic you clearly know little about?

I've been driving EVs for 8 years. Outside of tires, brakes and windshield wipers, my total maintenance cost has been $0. There are plenty of EVs out there with over 200k miles on the original battery. Maintenance costs are a major advantage for EVs, not a disadvantage.


I mean here’s a Kia that got 9 engines in 10 years. Funny how nobody ever talks about the miserable reliability of Kia/Hyundai ICE’s here though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledinto ... ame=iossmf
WhyNotUs
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by WhyNotUs »

windaar wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:04 pm I would not consider an electric unless completely informed and convinced about the longevity of such a vehicle and the cost of battery replacement.
It does not seem likely that will happen. :sharebeer
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by crefwatch »

In warm weather, I could theoretically drive my 2021 Chevy Bolt EV to Philly and back on a single charge. But with my current 80% safety limit (all 141,000 Bolt batteries have been recalled), it's not true anymore.

Aside from a DCFC taking over half an hour for a Bolt, the real problem is that you always need to have a backup location for your next charge, in case the place you go first is broken or has a long line for charging. A couple of Sunday nights ago, the Joyce Kilmer rest stop on NJTP had a long (5-10 minute) line just to enter the rest stop. That was mainly end-of-weekend gas pump line. But I know from Thanksgiving that there was a line for the 6 or 8 Tesla Superchargers there, and almost a line for the plain vanilla DCFC that I needed.

I discovered that my regular garage in Philly had wired pairs of charges on the same circuit breaker, so after a Tesla, later, parked next to me, both of our chargers lost power. Luckily, I scheduled a physical check in, and was able to move to an adjacent charger with no car at the paired EVSE.

The point is that the infrastructure has not matured enough. As a previous Prius owner, I can tell you that terror over battery degradation is mainly an old-technology myth. I don't keep my car ten years anyway. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by 02nz »

GT99 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:35 pm
windaar wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:04 pm I drive a 2009 car that is going strong. Kelly Blue Book value is 8K+. If it were electric (if there had been such a thing then) it would be on an ash heap. I would not consider an electric unless completely informed and convinced about the longevity of such a vehicle and the cost of battery replacement. As I read it now those numbers are not reassuring.
Why would you comment on a topic you clearly know little about?

I've been driving EVs for 8 years. Outside of tires, brakes and windshield wipers, my total maintenance cost has been $0. There are plenty of EVs out there with over 200k miles on the original battery. Maintenance costs are a major advantage for EVs, not a disadvantage.
On every EV thread there is FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) spread by people who clearly have no clue what they're talking about. What you almost never see is an actual EV owner regretting the switch or actually having shelled out money for a battery replacement. I've been driving EVs for almost 4 years and can't imagine going back - I've saved thousands of dollars even without considering any of the government incentives.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by newyorker »

Have you considered Hyundai Ioniq 5?
02nz
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by 02nz »

crefwatch wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:34 am In warm weather, I could theoretically drive my 2021 Chevy Bolt EV to Philly and back on a single charge. But with my current 80% safety limit (all 141,000 Bolt batteries have been recalled), it's not true anymore.

Aside from a DCFC taking over half an hour for a Bolt ...
You haven't gotten the battery replaced yet? I understand that GM has already restarted production of new Bolts, and AFAIK they were only going to do that after ensuring replacement batteries were available for recalled vehicles (not necessarily that the replacement was actually done).

As for DCFC time, newer EVs can be quite a bit faster, e.g., the Ioniq 5 and EV6 can charge to 80% in 18 minutes using a 350KW station. Those are still few and far between but are being rolled out.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by 02nz »

eric321 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 6:24 am The IRS reimbursement rates are updated each year. Hopefully they will increase with the increase in fuel prices.

Depending on how much city vs highway driving you will be doing maybe a plug in hybrid may make sense. Tradition engines good for highway driving and winter, battery good for regeneration. Markups vary widely by model in this market but anecdotal evidence suggest things are getting better.

If you have a lot of highway driving, consider EVs with driving assist. Ford mustang Mach-e with blue cruise and Chevrolet bolt with supercruise.
I agree with the recommendation about driver assist features, but you don't necessarily need one of the pricy systems like Supercruise. The combination of lane keep assist and adaptive cruise on my Niro EV do maybe 80-90% of the work of driving on the highway and make long drives much less fatiguing.

As for ICE engines being good for highway driving - they are less inefficient than they are in the city (it's usually the other way around for EVs), but they are still much less efficient and an EV will generally cost less to operate even for 100% highway driving.
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by crefwatch »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:53 am
crefwatch wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:34 am In warm weather, I could theoretically drive my 2021 Chevy Bolt EV to Philly and back on a single charge. But with my current 80% safety limit (all 141,000 Bolt batteries have been recalled), it's not true anymore.

Aside from a DCFC taking over half an hour for a Bolt ...
You haven't gotten the battery replaced yet?
Chevy got LG to set aside about $1B of LG money (more or less) for the battery task. I think they are on 2019's as of now. One problem is the physical time (including the weight and location of the battery) needed to perform the task, and the small number of EV trained techs at Chevy dealers.

Some owners have reported, for example, that the special vacuum procedure to prevent air locking of the tiny coolant passages in the battery was not done.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:58 am
As for ICE engines being good for highway driving - they are less inefficient than they are in the city (it's usually the other way around for EVs), but they are still much less efficient and an EV will generally cost less to operate even for 100% highway driving.
To verify this for any car choice, it is worth doing the math. With gas prices double what they were a year ago, that certainly moves the balance towards EVs. But don't ignore electric cost. Some of the electric rates in my region have gone up 38% in the last year. I'm not saying that this tips the balance back, but it might. A year ago, I did the math for a Tesla model 3 vs my Subaru Crosstrek using the local gas prices I pay and our actual kWHr electric rate and the Tesla cost per mile was higher. This ignored the price of a model 3 which if you haven't checked lately, has skyrocketed. I only know this because my son drives 60 miles from our house to work and 60 miles back with his Subaru STi which gets 21 mpg on premium gas. He was looking at a model 3 online and where they used to supposedly be $35k to buy, they're now over $45k. He's walking out the door right now and taking my Crosstrek that gets 29 mpg on regular gas to save a bunch of money.
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hunoraut
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by hunoraut »

02nz wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:46 am
On every EV thread there is FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) spread by people who clearly have no clue what they're talking about. What you almost never see is an actual EV owner regretting the switch or actually having shelled out money for a battery replacement.
To be fair there are some owners who werent pleased. But it is an extremely small minority.

I dont understand the others. Its a strange phenomenon. Ive driven pick-up trucks. I know what they are. But i have neither knowledge nor interest to chime in a discussion between Ram vs Silverado…but the opposite always happens here
Valuethinker
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by Valuethinker »

GT99 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:29 pm
oxothuk wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:17 pm You also might want to consider the Nissan Leaf Plus models, which have a 220 mile range. Still eligible for the tax credit, more available, and much less expensive than other EVs on the market.

One thing to keep in mind with any EV is that charging away from home will be much more expensive than charging at home - comparable to filling a gasoline car in my experience. So your best use case will be when your total daily driving is within your range and you can charge at home each night.
2 things on this...
1. for this use case, I'd want a car with minimum 250 miles of range. EVs get worse range on highways and unless you're going pretty slowly, a Leaf Plus is highly unlikely to make it 200 miles without charging, especially in the winter.

2. Could be different in the northeast, but the majority of times I charge away from home it's free. Grocery stores/shopping centers and office buildings are almost always free.
I have a friend who has a Hyundai Ioniq 5 -- in a Canadian maritime province.

Driving in the winter months, with the heating running, significantly reduces the range. Probably below 200 miles.

That is definitely something you should bear in mind.

re 2 - but are these just level 1 (trickle) chargers, or are they 10 kw (Level 2) chargers? A trickle charge might get you home, but it won't get you very far.
TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Buying an electric car for work?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

The free-access charging is Level 2, maybe you get 10kw out of them, not at all comparable to the need for over the road rapid charging, that is, DC Fast Charging.

A clarification on cost... this past weekend did my first over the road trip in my Ioniq5, which comes with 2 years free charging at Electrify America. Different jurisdictions do it differently but in Pennsylvania the fee for the 350 kW chargers is reckoned by time, not juice transferred. With the rapid charging of the Ioniq5 (peaked at 235 kW) I was able to add 55kW in 20 minutes; if I had been paying for it at the $.31/minute rate that would have cost me $6.20 and would have allowed me to drive at 70 mph for about 185 miles.

Compare that to an ICE, say 35 mpg at $4.50/gallon would be about $22.50
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