Anyone heard of Proton email?

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Shire hobbit
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Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by Shire hobbit »

I am looking to have a 2nd email for my financial dealings, banking, investments etc. anyone every hear of proton email?

thanks!
quantAndHold
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by quantAndHold »

Yes. It is exactly what they advertise.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
NewbieBogle007
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by NewbieBogle007 »

Yes - and it seems, to me, to be a good method of transferring private files with encryption (can't do that with Gmail, for example). I'm curious to see what others here think.
Freefun
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by Freefun »

I use Proton email and like it a lot. Strength is that everything is encrypted. It’s based in Switzerland.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
YoungSisyphus
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by YoungSisyphus »

Yes, it is good. I haven’t been able to ween myself off Gmail and the Google support (calendar, g suite integration) yet. But I like what they stand for. I’ve been tempted to start paying them for their expanded service and make the cut.
TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

Indeed, for my communications with people in jurisdictions that monitor email for "subversive" information, Proton has been great!
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gavinsiu
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by gavinsiu »

Yes, proton is probably good for privacy, but no email is secure unless you encrypted it end to end. This is why HIPPA prohibits sending of medical information over email.

If you use proton, Google won't search through your email for advertising target. However, keep in mind that Proton has to follow the laws of Switzerland. Recently, a French Climiate activist was tracked down using IP address provided by Protomail, obtain through warrant. So it's private in a way where you company can't obtain data by buying off the proton, but not private to government agencies.
jebmke
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by jebmke »

NewbieBogle007 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:40 pm Yes - and it seems, to me, to be a good method of transferring private files with encryption (can't do that with Gmail, for example). I'm curious to see what others here think.
It can be done with GMail with a workaround; I use it for limited needs with people I know well. Files encrypted in a Veracrypt file. Text the key to the person; they decrypt. Veracrypt is open source and easy to install but there are probably other encryption programs that would also work. A bit of extra work so not a good solution for frequent needs.
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TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:56 pm Yes, proton is probably good for privacy, but no email is secure unless you encrypted it end to end. This is why HIPPA prohibits sending of medical information over email.
Proton asserts end to end encryption
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells
jarhead
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by jarhead »

Here's some related reading on the topic --> https://stoatnet.org/gpg/
gavinsiu
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by gavinsiu »

Ok, read up on it, I was wondering how it would work. Normally, in order to decrypt a email, you need to exchange a key with the person on the other side. This makes in impractical to send encrypted email to a person where you have not previously exchange a public key. It appears that proton sends a link to the other person so they can enter a password to decrypt if they are not a proton user.

It seems reasonably secure. Just keep in mind that you can still be trace through your IP and sender address can still be traced.
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dual
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by dual »

I use it quite a bit. I even have the paid version. I figure if it's free then you are the product. Good performance and good apps for smart phones and tablets. I have transferred most of my financial accounts to proton mail but I confess I still have a few that use Gmail. They have a decent support group on Reddit.
Invest4lt
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by Invest4lt »

+1 for proton mail

It looks like end-to-end encryption applies to email sent from protonmail to another protonmail user:
https://protonmail.com/security-details
bloom2708
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by bloom2708 »

+1

We have used ProtonMail for 4 years. I use it for all financial related accounts. Strong password. Two factor.

Happy with the service.
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Vulcan
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by Vulcan »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:01 pm
gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:56 pm Yes, proton is probably good for privacy, but no email is secure unless you encrypted it end to end. This is why HIPPA prohibits sending of medical information over email.
Proton asserts end to end encryption
Only between Proton subscribers. A subset of all email users of effectively zero size.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
EDOPilot
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by EDOPilot »

Glad I stumbled on this thread. Just created my proton email account. Like others have stated, I like what they stand for.
Nyc10036
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by Nyc10036 »

I have paid Proton Mail and paid Mailbox.org
I have my financial accounts split between the two.
I still have Gmail and other free accounts.
rich126
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by rich126 »

Freefun wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:45 pm I use Proton email and like it a lot. Strength is that everything is encrypted. It’s based in Switzerland.
I'm not sure if based in Switzerland means much.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/81249975 ... te-secrets

For those that don't want to click on links.
Greg Miller of The Washington Post reveals the hidden history of Crypto AG, a Swiss firm that sold encryption technology to 120 countries — but was secretly owned by the CIA for decades.
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Wabbit
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by Wabbit »

They have a good summary page of the encryption:

https://protonmail.com/support/knowledg ... encrypted/
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samsoes
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by samsoes »

rich126 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:44 pm
Freefun wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:45 pm I use Proton email and like it a lot. Strength is that everything is encrypted. It’s based in Switzerland.
I'm not sure if based in Switzerland means much.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/81249975 ... te-secrets

For those that don't want to click on links.
Greg Miller of The Washington Post reveals the hidden history of Crypto AG, a Swiss firm that sold encryption technology to 120 countries — but was secretly owned by the CIA for decades.
Proton Technologies develops their own encryption (it isn't purchased from a third party), and it is open-source so that it can be inspected to determine if there are back doors.
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MarkBarb
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by MarkBarb »

rich126 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:44 pm
Freefun wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:45 pm I use Proton email and like it a lot. Strength is that everything is encrypted. It’s based in Switzerland.
I'm not sure if based in Switzerland means much.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/81249975 ... te-secrets

For those that don't want to click on links.
Greg Miller of The Washington Post reveals the hidden history of Crypto AG, a Swiss firm that sold encryption technology to 120 countries — but was secretly owned by the CIA for decades.
There are a lot of rumors that the same is true about Proton. It isn't open source and it isn't very transparent. For people planning to do illegal things, I wouldn't trust Proton On the other hand, if you want a relatively high level of privacy and are OK with the CIA having access to your email, it shouldn't really matter.
Marseille07
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by Marseille07 »

I have a protonmail account and I generally like their privacy-first attitude. That said, they got caught logging IP of some users and dropped the wording since then: https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... thorities/

Just something to keep in mind.
international001
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by international001 »

As a workaround for gmail, I compress the files in a .zip with a password. ISn't that secure?

What's the worse thing google can do? Inspect my files to send me adds?
helloeveryone
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by helloeveryone »

Shire hobbit wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:38 pm I am looking to have a 2nd email for my financial dealings, banking, investments etc. anyone every hear of proton email?

thanks!
I’ve had a proton email about 3-4 months. I can speak for the encryption part….I forgot my password. Reset it. The emails I had inbox were there but no longer readable. I guess the were encrypted forever since I had to reset my password. Not a big deal but if you have important emails you saved in your mail acct - forgetting your password means you won’t have access to those emails anymore
guppyguy
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by guppyguy »

So I looked over their website and still have a couple questions…
Is ProtonMail a substitute for something like iCloud or Gmail or is it just a special use email account for privacy?
Has anybody completely moved away from Apple Mail and use Proton exclusively?

I’m pretty tired of using Apples Mail app, especially the lack of real filtering (as compared to Gmail but I don’t want to use them again either).
motiv8ed
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by motiv8ed »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:56 pm Yes, proton is probably good for privacy, but no email is secure unless you encrypted it end to end.
...
However, keep in mind that Proton has to follow the laws of Switzerland. Recently, a French Climiate activist was tracked down using IP address provided by Protomail, obtain through warrant. So, it's private in a way where you company can't obtain data by buying off the proton, but not private to government agencies.
Proton only says they protect the content of your out-going email when it's sent to another Proton account. If you send the email to someone on another system, you must specifically click the little lock button in the lower-left of the "New Message" panel. If you hover your mouse over that little lock icon, it says "Encryption" and the keyboard shortcut to use (Ctrl + Shift + E). Of course, as others have mentioned, then you have the issue of getting your message's recipient the password they need to decrypt the email. (The usual out-of-band key management problem. Proton doesn't solve that for you.)

As noted by gavinsiu in the quoted section, Proton does not make your emails anonymous. If you want/need more anonymity, try Protonmail with Tor.


motiv8ed
rgs92
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by rgs92 »

The problem with all these smaller email providers that you have to pay for is that :
1. If for some reason your payment stream stops, your email may be deleted permanently (after a while I assume). Who knows how long it will be available for recovery? I guess they have some sort of policy on this.

and

2. What if the company (usually a small company) fails or just disappears? There goes your saved mail (possibly).

At least gmail isn't going away (most probably) and your mail will be there without you needing to keep payments going. I guess you need to be within the storage limits for the free level of storage, but that's pretty high. And I think if you don't access it for a very long time they may delete the account. Not sure about that exactly.

Email survivability and longevity is probably a good topic for a new thread...

Edit: I guess one good thing about these small email companies is that, as long as you keep paying, they will never delete the account even if you don't sign in to it. It's analogous to a credit card with an annual fee; they never close out the card since a fee is charged to the card each year.
gavinsiu
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by gavinsiu »

Proton has been around for while and I believe has a pretty positive cash flow. I don't think I worry about it going belly up anything soon. You can setup a desktop client to save the messages so even if you lose the provider, you will still have the archive email.

One reason not to use gmail is that they probably scan your content for advertisement. The scanning does add extra features. For example, I get notification that my plane flight is today even though I didn't add that to my calendar. Gmail notice that i have a flight and created a notification on my phone, so one reason to use gmail is to get those extra features.

Personally, I don't like to use email if it involves anything sensitive. There are better ways to transfer information such as using Signal.

One of the poster mentioned the use of Proton Mail to email friends and relative in questionable areas. This makes me wonder if using Proton mail would be worse. If you are using gmail, you are one of the millions of user using gmail and would be lose in the noise. If you use Proton, could you end up being on a watch list?
athenslb57
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by athenslb57 »

Also check out mail fence. Been around since 1999 and based in Belgium which has strict privacy laws.
ScaledWheel
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by ScaledWheel »

Protonmail seems to be as-advertised, but why do you feel you need it for communication with financial institutions? Last I checked they do not send any information over email that has account numbers or the like in it.
MBB_Boy
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by MBB_Boy »

guppyguy wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:33 pm So I looked over their website and still have a couple questions…
Is ProtonMail a substitute for something like iCloud or Gmail or is it just a special use email account for privacy?
Has anybody completely moved away from Apple Mail and use Proton exclusively?

I’m pretty tired of using Apples Mail app, especially the lack of real filtering (as compared to Gmail but I don’t want to use them again either).
I don't use Apple products, but I'm effectively 100% out of Gmail for Proton. Paid user with two addresses, one for the "important" stuff that has notifications on my phone, one for basically everything else that I'll only look at when I want to.

The only times I use any of my old gmail accounts are things that I know are going to end up with spam (email for 10% off something I'm buying, movie tickets and online food orders, etc).
59Gibson
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by 59Gibson »

I use Proton and believe it has to be much more secure then Google regardless, I'll roll the dice because all of the issues w/ Google/big tech are well documented
gardencoder
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by gardencoder »

End to end encryption is mostly a matter of trust. You don’t control either end of Proton Mail’s software, just what you type into it. That said, it’s a great option, though personally I find regular email just fine.

For my sensitive documents, I use Tresorit(https://tresorit.com/). It’s like Dropbox w/ end-to-end encrypted technology. You can create password protected share links and send them over regular email. I do this very infrequently, so the little overhead is no problem.
gavinsiu
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by gavinsiu »

ScaledWheel wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:34 am Protonmail seems to be as-advertised, but why do you feel you need it for communication with financial institutions? Last I checked they do not send any information over email that has account numbers or the like in it.
Protonmail is good, but let's think about what it is and what it is not. There is a difference between privacy and security. Gmail is secure enough if you go and secure it with a hardware key. It's just that google knows everything you email. Now Google know which bank you go to, etc.

I don't think you are getting extra security by going to proton mail, just more privacy. If you use a crappy password and no 2 factor authentication on proton mail, you are not secure.

For better security, use a different account for financial institutions and make sure you opted out of the 3nd party sharing of your info with financial institution and don't use it to email your friends and family. By restricting your email to institution, you get fewer phishing attacks because fewer people know about the email.
roamingzebra
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Re: Anyone heard of Proton email?

Post by roamingzebra »

ScaledWheel wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:34 am Protonmail seems to be as-advertised, but why do you feel you need it for communication with financial institutions? Last I checked they do not send any information over email that has account numbers or the like in it.
Depending on the bank and what alert options you have chosen, they can send any combination of the following:
  • Last four digits of account number
  • Available balance
  • Amount of your direct deposits
  • The amount of your EFTs
  • The names/symbols of the securities you have bought or sold
  • Full name and IIRC sometimes full address
  • Features you have activated on your accounts
Probably more if you're in the process of initially setting up an account.
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