Pizza Ovens

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
Harri88
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:15 pm
Location: Midwest

Pizza Ovens

Post by Harri88 »

I am looking at purchasing a "portable" outdoor pizza ovens. I think I've narrowed it down to one of the Ooni's, and Roccbox. I"m wanting to find out what fellow members may have. Any other brands to consider? Budgeting 400 to 500 or so.
  • What do you have and what do you like about it and what you dont (pros/cons)?
  • Do you have the multi fuel, wood only or gas only? I'm leaning townard the gas version.
  • Looks like the Ooni's come in 12 and 16 inch size vs one size 12 inch for the Roccbox. What size did you go with and did you find it adequate enough?
  • Have you had your oven a while, and do you still use it regularly or did the novelty wear off?
  • Do you use it for more than pizza?
Starfish
Posts: 2417
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Starfish »

I investigated Ooni for a while. I decided against it. I believe that you do not do your own own dough with Italian flour and use Italian tomatoes and Italian mozzarella (maybe this one can be more local? a), it's very hard to get a good and consistent result. And my passion for a good pizza does not go so far.
SgwayMontrose
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:19 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by SgwayMontrose »

12” is plenty and they cook so quickly that multiples are easy. 16” is a lot to deal with at home and getting it on and off the peel without disaster. Or use a pizza screen, no shame in that. You don’t need all Italian ingredients, far from: it. Here http://www.pennmac.com/page/27/pizza-making-supplies and get your dough from Publix deli, the ball kind, just make sure to let it rest a long while before using. It tastes great but it’s tough to work with without tearing. If you make your own then fantastic! Window pane for the win.
TheGreyingDuke
Posts: 1907
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

I have an original Uuni 12", wood pellet only model. There is a bit of a learning curve but it does the job. During the warm months, I use it every Friday night, great pizzas in 3 minutes. Keep in mind that you want a low hydration dough with this, 60% is about perfect.

Come winter, I have adopted, after years of trial, a home oven alternative. Heat oven to 550 for 30 minutes. Heat a cast iron pan on the cooktop to get it really hot, carefully place the rolled out dough in the pan, add you toppings and switch the oven to BROIL. In an electric oven you may need to pen the door for a moment to allow the broiler to come on (I have never had that problem) and put the pan on the top shelf. 3 minutes and bingo an easy way to get great pizza in a home oven.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells
TheGreyingDuke
Posts: 1907
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

SgwayMontrose wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:09 pm get your dough from Publix deli, the ball kind, just make sure to let it rest a long while before using. It tastes great but it’s tough to work with without tearing. If you make your own then fantastic! Window pane for the win.
I can understand the convenience but store bought dough? I can mix up 6 lbs in my mixer, divide it into 250 g (8.8 oz) balls and, letting it rest, then put them in the freezer, ready to go. Take them out the night before, place in fridge, remove from fridge 3-4 hours before baking and Bob's your uncle!
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells
dak
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by dak »

Continuing with the marginally responsive replies:

- A pizza steel is a reasonable substitute for the portable oven. Pop is into the oven for an hour or so at the highest temp you have available, and hit the pizza with the brioler to finish it if required. Seems to work much better for me that the multitude of pizza stones that I have somehow ended up with. Caution - the steels are heavy and hold heat amazingly well. Do not touch until they are thoroughly cooled down.

- The bread flour and yeast available at Costco is great for the dough. A total investment of less than $14 will get you 25 pounds of bread flour and a huge brick of yeast. That'll keep you busy for quite awhile. Just divide the flour, repackage, and freeze it for a few days to kill off any bugs that might be lurking.

A big advantage that I would expect from the pizza oven would be quick temperature recovery for doing subsequent rounds. Anytime you are working with conventional ovens, the temperature drops quite a bit when the door is opened, so the pace of pizza making is slowed. Can anyone confirm my supposition?
User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 6331
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by lthenderson »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:14 pm Come winter, I have adopted, after years of trial, a home oven alternative. Heat oven to 550 for 30 minutes. Heat a cast iron pan on the cooktop to get it really hot, carefully place the rolled out dough in the pan, add you toppings and switch the oven to BROIL...3 minutes and bingo an easy way to get great pizza in a home oven.
I do this method except I let the cast iron heat up in the oven while it is heating up rather than run two appliances.

I know two people who have outdoor pizza ovens. We were invited over to both after they were newly built for pizza. While it was fun, the effort required to get everything started, haul all your ingredients, plates, etc. outside to make the dining enjoyable, cleaning up afterwards and hauling everything back inside make the novelty of them quickly wear off. I haven't seen evidence of their use in years now.
tonyclifton
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:25 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by tonyclifton »

My gas grill will bury the thermometer needle around 650f but may get to 700f. I use one of these on the gas grill:

https://www.amazon.com/Stoneware-Therma ... B01GW4CDNO

My setup is the pizza stone, wooden peel (to place) and metal peel (to remove). I use the Caputo double zero Americana flour from Amazon. This flour makes all the difference. The results are fantastic. Pizza takes less than 3 minutes and sometimes I finish under the broiler.

There is a fancy pizza restaurant near us that is very popular (and has good pizza). The oven has a large temperature gauge. It is consistently between 625F and 670F. So I am happy with my low cost setup. There is a wood fired pizza place that gets much hotter and is doing true Neapolitan style.

If you are trying to go for 900F+ at home, good luck! That will be a labor of love and expense.

I’d buy a tandoori oven if I was going to chase the high heat further.
jebmke
Posts: 14052
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by jebmke »

I use the gas grill as well. Simple. Takes ~ 15 minutes .
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
sixtyforty
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by sixtyforty »

I looked into outdoor pizza ovens but after figuring out how to make it at home, don't feel the need to have one. We get the pizza dough from Whole Foods. Heat the oven to 500 degrees and place the pizza at the very top rack. Placing the pizza at the very top rack is the key. Bake for 16/17 minutes. The crust comes out great. Pretty easy.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
SgwayMontrose
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:19 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by SgwayMontrose »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:17 pm
SgwayMontrose wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:09 pm get your dough from Publix deli, the ball kind, just make sure to let it rest a long while before using. It tastes great but it’s tough to work with without tearing. If you make your own then fantastic! Window pane for the win.
I can understand the convenience but store bought dough? I can mix up 6 lbs in my mixer, divide it into 250 g (8.8 oz) balls and, letting it rest, then put them in the freezer, ready to go. Take them out the night before, place in fridge, remove from fridge 3-4 hours before baking and Bob's your uncle!
That store bought dough has very good flavor as well and I was responding to the post suggesting everything needed to be of a Italian origin. Far from it! Pizza can be as easy or as complicated as one wishes to make it. On the occasion that I would make my own dough I preferred a longer fermentation time In the fridge than you have accounted for in your recipe and technique. Looks great though.
User avatar
tennisplyr
Posts: 3059
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:53 pm
Location: Sarasota, FL

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by tennisplyr »

Make mine on a barbecue gas grill…easy and tastes like brick oven pizza.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.
AnonJohn
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by AnonJohn »

Plus one to wooden peel on and metal peel on. I use (indoors, but can be used outdoors) the Fibrament-D stone. It is excellent. Have also heard good things about steels.

If you are serious about pizza, this is valuable: https://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm

His approach of using a sourdough starter a day or two ahead has given us excellent results. The flexibility of doing it 1-2 days ahead, refrigerating and then pulling the dough a few hours before cooking has proved reasonably convenient. Advance planning, but a lot of flexibility to accommodate schedules.
onourway
Posts: 3129
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by onourway »

I have been cooking pizza at home seriously for years; we have frequent parties where I cook for the crowd entirely from scratch. In our previous house I had an oven that had a large stone that allowed me, with the right combination of pre-heat and broil, to cook at about 700F. Still not fast enough to cook true neopolitan style, but it was consistent enough that I could comfortably cook for a crowd. Some friends have the Ooni and my impression has been that it’s rather fussy in comparison, and the size of the pies it produces are small enough that much of its speed advantage is negated. If you want to cook outside for just a couple of people, I’d say its fine.

Our new place has a much smaller oven that will eventually be replaced when we renovate. In the meantime I’ve been cooking on our grill with a pizza oven accessory (essentially a stone with a stainless dome). The problem with grill cooking is that it’s impossible to get the top and bottom temps even. I can actually get a stone temp of 1000+ on the grill, but the bottom would be charred and the top raw at that temp. I actually have to cook at much more moderate temperatures on the grill - closer to 500 works ok, but it’s still work compared to my previous setup.
BeerTooth
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:07 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by BeerTooth »

I have the 16" Ooni pizza oven, propane fired. I make 12" pizzas, to leave some room to shift and rotate during the bake. There are hotter and colder spots in the oven deck - once I learned those, I had repeatable success. It's an active baking process for ~2 minutes at 850F. I probably turn the pie 3 or 4 times to get it evenly baked. Sometimes I turn the flame down for the last 30 seconds to crisp up the crust. We use it about once a week. It preheats in about 15 minutes, and recovers quickly while I'm shaping the next pie. I do all my prep in the kitchen and just walk outside with the pizza on the peel and slide it into the oven. So cleanup is minimal at the end of the party, just putting away toppings and wiping the bench flour off the stainless island.
mkc
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:59 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by mkc »

AnonJohn wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:49 am
If you are serious about pizza, this is valuable: https://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
This one is my favorite https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php It's the Bogleheads' forum of pizza.

My dough is an evolved JerryMac/Pete-zza recipe. Dabbling in Chicago - BTB Malnati clone with Semolina. Detroit-style I follow HansB' recipe

Andrew Janjigian is a great one to follow https://wordloaf.substack.com/ Formerly the bread/pizza guy at Cook's Illustrated, he now freelances.
hunoraut
Posts: 554
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 11:39 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by hunoraut »

Harri88 wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:13 pm I am looking at purchasing a "portable" outdoor pizza ovens. I think I've narrowed it down to one of the Ooni's, and Roccbox. I"m wanting to find out what fellow members may have. Any other brands to consider? Budgeting 400 to 500 or so.
  • What do you have and what do you like about it and what you dont (pros/cons)?
  • Do you have the multi fuel, wood only or gas only? I'm leaning townard the gas version.
  • Looks like the Ooni's come in 12 and 16 inch size vs one size 12 inch for the Roccbox. What size did you go with and did you find it adequate enough?
  • Have you had your oven a while, and do you still use it regularly or did the novelty wear off?
  • Do you use it for more than pizza?
I was simultaneously intrigued and skeptical of these devices as superfluous gadgets... bought a gas Ooni 12" and it is superb. Many reputable parties tested and endorsed these - e.g. Kenji Lopez-Alt and he is not commercially incentivized for it.
  • What do you have and what do you like about it and what you dont (pros/cons)?
* I like the size of the 12. Packs ultra small. I also think it concentrates the heat even better than 16"
  • Do you have the multi fuel, wood only or gas only? I'm leaning townard the gas version.
* Gas is ultra convenient and fast. Considered multi-fuel or wood but don't think "flavor" matters for such quick cooks.
  • Looks like the Ooni's come in 12 and 16 inch size vs one size 12 inch for the Roccbox. What size did you go with and did you find it adequate enough?
* 12 is perfect for single-person pizzas. Also think its quicker to heat, gets hotter, and that size pie is easier to manage (stretch, transfer, etc)
  • Have you had your oven a while, and do you still use it regularly or did the novelty wear off?
* Depends how often you want pizza. Making the dough I think is the big determinant, not operating the device.
  • Do you use it for more than pizza?
* Planning on getting a separate base to broil meats, basically like a salamander, but just haven't yet


Before this I tried using stone in the oven, and even measuring high temp on the stone, it is no way an acceptable substitute for the workflow and results of using a dedicated pizza oven. Time to heat, the level of heat, the retention of heat (from opening and closing oven door)... all incomparable. Also tried using stone on a backyard grill and again... the Ooni still has a raison d'etre
jebmke
Posts: 14052
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by jebmke »

onourway wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:01 am The problem with grill cooking is that it’s impossible to get the top and bottom temps even. I can actually get a stone temp of 1000+ on the grill, but the bottom would be charred and the top raw at that temp.
I run my grill up to about 500.

I use a stainless steel "grillo" style sheet and simply lay out the dough on that sheet for 5 minutes, then flip it and then put the toppings on the slightly cooked side. I don't use anything on top that actually has to get cooked (e.g. raw meat) so I only have to wait until everything is heated, cheese melted and the bottom gets well crusted. I actually like just a slight "char" on the bottom but I've taken off right before the char sets in an it was finished. Our toppings are generally pretty simple; some sauteed mushrooms; shredded prosciutto, arugula and a little bit of cheese. Sauteed fennel is also good on pizza. Pineapple would be a felony.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
ScaledWheel
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:06 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by ScaledWheel »

I have the Ooni 16", propane powered but do have the nat. gas conversion kit that I need to set up. Will probably do that in the spring as we're winding down this year's cooking season.

What do you mean by "portable"? Its legs fold and you can transport it, but I just keep it in place.

When we get the "forever" home, we're going to build a wood-fired outdoor oven to go along with the outdoor kitchen. But for now the Ooni works very well.
BeerTooth
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:07 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by BeerTooth »

ScaledWheel wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:01 am I have the Ooni 16", propane powered but do have the nat. gas conversion kit that I need to set up. Will probably do that in the spring as we're winding down this year's cooking season.

What do you mean by "portable"? Its legs fold and you can transport it, but I just keep it in place.

When we get the "forever" home, we're going to build a wood-fired outdoor oven to go along with the outdoor kitchen. But for now the Ooni works very well.
I longingly wished for a wood-fired masonry pizza oven for years but never ended up building one, and I've moved twice in the meantime. Those ovens are great if you're cooking for a crowd every day in a commercial setting, but not practical for small family meals, or weeknight pizza sessions. It takes an hour or more of time, actively feeding wood into the fire to saturate the dome with heat. Once they're hot, they stay hot, which is why pizzerias use them. For my family, the number of times I can set aside multiple hours to manage a wood fire for pizzas is so infrequent that it wouldn't get used much

In contrast, the propane-fired Ooni preheats in 15 minutes and I can crank out three pies for the family after getting home from work. I have keep it on my screened porch and I have cooked in all types of freezing and wet weather, just ducking out onto the porch to cook for 2 minutes, then back inside to make another pie. I think if I had a wood-fired masonry oven, it would sit unused all winter
coldaudio
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:21 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by coldaudio »

No need for any special ovens, J Kenji Lopez Alt does a great job breaking down how to cook a real NY-style pizza at home

https://www.seriouseats.com/new-york-style-pizza
bhsince87
Posts: 2875
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by bhsince87 »

onourway wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:01 am

Our new place has a much smaller oven that will eventually be replaced when we renovate. In the meantime I’ve been cooking on our grill with a pizza oven accessory (essentially a stone with a stainless dome). The problem with grill cooking is that it’s impossible to get the top and bottom temps even. I can actually get a stone temp of 1000+ on the grill, but the bottom would be charred and the top raw at that temp. I actually have to cook at much more moderate temperatures on the grill - closer to 500 works ok, but it’s still work compared to my previous setup.
What I have done with a grill is to put a stone above and below the pizza. You can rotate them during preheat to balance out the heat levels. Heat will radiate down from the upper stone (or steel) and cook the top quickly. I've also used bricks on the upper shelf.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace." Samuel Adams
Barsoom
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:40 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Barsoom »

I use a counter-top oven, since it's smaller and can concentrate the heat.

I have a Breville Smart-Air Pro oven. It has a pizza setting that controls how the heating elements light. The pizza rack setting is the lowest, putting it right above the bottom burner. I use a pizza stone. The oven also has two convection settings to help cook the top, too. I set the oven to its highest temperature.

-B
interwebopinion
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:21 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by interwebopinion »

Before pulling the trigger on this, have you considered Kenji's method of bbq pizza?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/dini ... ecipe.html

Haven't tried it yet, but Kenji hasn't failed me yet. His boiled egg method has made it foolproof for me.
User avatar
TierArtz
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:33 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by TierArtz »

We are one cook (4 pizzas) into an Ooni Koda 16" (propane); those were the best home-made pizzas we ever made!

Upgrades since the first successful attempt: 1: Large Ooni cart for the oven to sit on - no more carrying to and from the patio to the BBQ island.
And, the distance between the shelves of the cart is enough to place our 20lb propane bottle, so we can move the setup to wherever the sun ain't shining.

2: Ooni turning peel (an 8-inch or so circular peel). We'll launch the pizza with plenty of cornmeal "lubricant" off of a King Arthur Baking Company peel (14x14") and then turn the pizza with the smaller one. We have not actually used the turning peel yet, but the Santa Barbara Baker makes it look easy in his YouTube videos: https://santabarbarabaker.com/pizza-making/ The 14" peel was perfect for launching and removal, but was too cumbersome for turning the pizza for an even cook.
mlipps
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:35 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by mlipps »

We bought the Ooni Fyra last year and we think it's a super fun toy. I went with Fyra over the propane one as it was a bit more affordable and also portable. It takes wood pellets, not actual wood, so it's super easy to light & keep going. I can take a quart sized container of wood pellets with us to a friend's & cook up 4 pizzas--way easier than moving a propane tank. In COVID times with lots of our friends having little kids it's been fun to take a pizza party to them. We also took it camping twice so far.

There's lots of way to make great pizza at home, but only that lets you get close to a true Neopolitan style pizza. I live in Chicago where we have one of the first VPN certified restaurants outside of Italy (Spacca Napoli) so I have certainly had the real deal. While I'm not QUITE that good yet, it's fun to try and we've really enjoyed it. I also recommend Ken Forkish's book "The Elements of Pizza" as a great resource for getting started.
JS-Elcano
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by JS-Elcano »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:17 pm
SgwayMontrose wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:09 pm get your dough from Publix deli, the ball kind, just make sure to let it rest a long while before using. It tastes great but it’s tough to work with without tearing. If you make your own then fantastic! Window pane for the win.
I can understand the convenience but store bought dough? I can mix up 6 lbs in my mixer, divide it into 250 g (8.8 oz) balls and, letting it rest, then put them in the freezer, ready to go. Take them out the night before, place in fridge, remove from fridge 3-4 hours before baking and Bob's your uncle!
That's what I do. I use the slow-ferment recipe for a Biga from the Ooni website. Works very time.
I have an Ooni 12". It's the multi-fuel model that can be hooked up to gas (but you need to buy that attachment separately), but I only use it with wood so far. I love it. It's important to heat it up to 900F so that the stone is hot and the pizza get's backed properly from the bottom as well as from the top. The secret is to not put too much in terms of toppings on it because it gets to heavy to launch into the oven and it takes too long to cook through.

Pizzas are done in 2 min max. We usually set up a toppings station and make one pizza (or two, depending on the number of people) at a time and then fire it up again (take only a few minutes since it's still hot inside the oven).

Get a wood pizza peel for launching the pizza into he oven (dough easily sticks to the metal peel) and then get the metal peel for turning the pizza in the oven while it's cooking.

:sharebeer
Dottie57
Posts: 10523
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Dottie57 »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:14 pm I have an original Uuni 12", wood pellet only model. There is a bit of a learning curve but it does the job. During the warm months, I use it every Friday night, great pizzas in 3 minutes. Keep in mind that you want a low hydration dough with this, 60% is about perfect.

Come winter, I have adopted, after years of trial, a home oven alternative. Heat oven to 550 for 30 minutes. Heat a cast iron pan on the cooktop to get it really hot, carefully place the rolled out dough in the pan, add you toppings and switch the oven to BROIL. In an electric oven you may need to pen the door for a moment to allow the broiler to come on (I have never had that problem) and put the pan on the top shelf. 3 minutes and bingo an easy way to get great pizza in a home oven.
Deleted
Last edited by Dottie57 on Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jebmke
Posts: 14052
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by jebmke »

interwebopinion wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:16 pm Before pulling the trigger on this, have you considered Kenji's method of bbq pizza?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/dini ... ecipe.html

Haven't tried it yet, but Kenji hasn't failed me yet. His boiled egg method has made it foolproof for me.
This is essentially the method I use. It only took 2-3 times to get the sequence right. I found the key was to let the grill (I use a Weber 330) heat up for a while so the metal housing is nice and hot. I like thin, crispy crust (almost cracker like) and one I got the technique down it works every time.

I use one of these

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Weber-Stainles ... lsrc=aw.ds

no oil or anything required. Flips easily with long handled metal spatula.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
interwebopinion
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:21 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by interwebopinion »

jebmke wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:46 pm
interwebopinion wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:16 pm Before pulling the trigger on this, have you considered Kenji's method of bbq pizza?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/dini ... ecipe.html

Haven't tried it yet, but Kenji hasn't failed me yet. His boiled egg method has made it foolproof for me.
This is essentially the method I use. It only took 2-3 times to get the sequence right. I found the key was to let the grill (I use a Weber 330) heat up for a while so the metal housing is nice and hot. I like thin, crispy crust (almost cracker like) and one I got the technique down it works every time.

I use one of these

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Weber-Stainles ... lsrc=aw.ds

no oil or anything required. Flips easily with long handled metal spatula.

Thx for the info!
in2bait
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:11 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by in2bait »

Buy the Ooni and make the Ken Forkish 72 Hr Dough if you want true Neapolitan style pizza.

Lots of people think a dough ball from the local grocery store thrown on the grill makes good pizza. Or god forbid a BGE type ceramic grill pizza full of smoke.

If you want true leopard spotting and an authentic pie get the Ooni and put your time into learning the process. 00 flour, San Marzano Tomatoes, Buffalo Mozzarella, fresh basil.
You'll screw up a few at first, but after a few cooks you'll be cranking out truly great pizzas !
Topic Author
Harri88
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:15 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Harri88 »

Thanks everyone for the replies. I have not been able to read all of them because of some long hours, but plan to go back through later this week.
User avatar
Taz
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:10 am
Location: Florida

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Taz »

Love our Ooni 12" gas only. Thought about wood/pellet but wanted to minimize fiddling and ash. (Haven't tried throwing in a few wood chips??)

Size is good, especially for make-your-own-pizza nights with friends or if you dislike mushrooms and black olives but really love your spouse. We use an inexpensive metal peel bought from a restaurant supply store for initial placement and removal, and a long handle spatula to rotate.

Likes: It makes really good pizza. We are not obsessive about the dough but it does matter. Easy to use but takes practice (see dislike). Portable. We've brought it to friends' homes.
Dislikes: Needs a thicker stone to retain heat better and crisp the crust more. Easy to place it too close to the rear and burn the crust.

Bought in April 2020 (on sale) and use 2-3 times a month. Bought the cast iron pan & grill which we've used to sear a sous vide steak and roast a few veggies. Probably should try other recipes.

While it lacks the taste, cache', and versatility of a fancy wood-fired oven, I think the Ooni was a great buy for us.
The destination matters. | "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't don't stop and look around once in a while - you could miss it." -- Ferris Bueller
Topic Author
Harri88
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:15 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Harri88 »

Thank you again everyone for the replies, recommendations, books, and links to various sites. A wood fired oven is not in the cards. I dont want to make that investment at our current home. We are planning to move to a different area when we retire in a few years, and I could see having one there. For the near term this looks like it could be fun for parties, small gatherings etc, but bad for the waist line.
jsapiandante
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:58 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by jsapiandante »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:14 pm I have an original Uuni 12", wood pellet only model. There is a bit of a learning curve but it does the job. During the warm months, I use it every Friday night, great pizzas in 3 minutes. Keep in mind that you want a low hydration dough with this, 60% is about perfect.

Come winter, I have adopted, after years of trial, a home oven alternative. Heat oven to 550 for 30 minutes. Heat a cast iron pan on the cooktop to get it really hot, carefully place the rolled out dough in the pan, add you toppings and switch the oven to BROIL. In an electric oven you may need to pen the door for a moment to allow the broiler to come on (I have never had that problem) and put the pan on the top shelf. 3 minutes and bingo an easy way to get great pizza in a home oven.
My method is almost something like yours but I start at the stove top. Turn your oven on and set to broil. I drizzle the cast iron with olive oil and lay down the dough and put the fixings. I turn on the stove to medium to get the bottom part of the dough cooking and after it starts to sizzle, I put it in the oven at the top most shelf for 3-5 minutes to finish cooking.
smackboy1
Posts: 1267
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by smackboy1 »

For indoor home oven I use a seasoned baking steel on top of a stone and cook the pizza twice (learned it on Youtube from Vito Iacopelli). Preheat the steel using max oven (500F). Then superheat the steel with the broiler for 10 mins before putting in the pizza. First, turn off the broiler, bake just the crust and tomato sauce. After 1-2 mins the crust should be partly cooked and bottom should be slightly browned. Pull out the crust. Superheat the steel with the broiler again while you put on toppings. Put cheese and toppings on the pizza. Second, turn off the broiler, bake the pizza until the cheese is melted. If you like the top crust a little charred, hit it with a few seconds of broiler at the end. With this method I can get some decent leopard spotting. Not as good as an 900F oven, but not bad for 500F.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
malabargold
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:16 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by malabargold »

I have a Karu 16 multi fuel and it’s great
Get the Pizza Bible cookbook


If you can find one of the old KettlePizzas that have a baking
Steel dome, those work very well

Also grilling pizzas directly on the grates (preferably GrillGrates)
Ala Al Forno as in Cucina Simpatica cookbook works well
Rosewood Tele
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:17 am

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Rosewood Tele »

Being avid Kenji Lopez-Alt YouTube viewers, we ran across his comparison of the RoccBox and the Ooni and got interested. (we also knew a chef couple that built their own pizza oven.

We wound up buying a propane oven called the Carbon. It has an under stone burner and a main.

So far we like it and have been perfecting our recipes.

We did try making roasted cauliflower pasta with a roasted garlic dressing—that was a little iffy. Trying to handle the cast iron pot at pizza oven temps is scary.
interwebopinion
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:21 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by interwebopinion »

On the topic of pizza, I highly recommend the Naples episode in Stanley Tucci's "Searching For Italy" for the story of how the pizza came to be.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11853280/?ref_=tt_eps_top
AnonJohn
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by AnonJohn »

mkc wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:08 am
AnonJohn wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:49 am
If you are serious about pizza, this is valuable: https://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
This one is my favorite https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php It's the Bogleheads' forum of pizza.

My dough is an evolved JerryMac/Pete-zza recipe. Dabbling in Chicago - BTB Malnati clone with Semolina. Detroit-style I follow HansB' recipe

Andrew Janjigian is a great one to follow https://wordloaf.substack.com/ Formerly the bread/pizza guy at Cook's Illustrated, he now freelances.
Thanks for sharing! The Varasano recipe I linked was originally posted and developed on what I think was the predecessor of the pizzamaking forums! Slice.seriouseats.com, when it was a thing. But the icons and menu of pizzamaking look the same. 15-20 years ago. Jeff Varasano is still active on the new site too.

My only complaint about pizzamaking is that they don't have a New Haven style. While I admit that it's tough to do a coal oven at home, I do consider it a legit US subtype. ☺

Do you do your Chicago in a cast iron skillet? I've had some luck there but haven't tried in over a decade.

I should get back into those forums. But when your pizza is " a fair bit better than you can buy locally but not truly great" I lost some of the drive to keep improving.

Friday is pizza night. Woo-hoo!
mkc
Posts: 846
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:59 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by mkc »

AnonJohn wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:52 am
mkc wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:08 am
This one is my favorite https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php It's the Bogleheads' forum of pizza.

My dough is an evolved JerryMac/Pete-zza recipe. Dabbling in Chicago - BTB Malnati clone with Semolina. Detroit-style I follow HansB' recipe

Andrew Janjigian is a great one to follow https://wordloaf.substack.com/ Formerly the bread/pizza guy at Cook's Illustrated, he now freelances.
Thanks for sharing! The Varasano recipe I linked was originally posted and developed on what I think was the predecessor of the pizzamaking forums! Slice.seriouseats.com, when it was a thing. But the icons and menu of pizzamaking look the same. 15-20 years ago. Jeff Varasano is still active on the new site too.

My only complaint about pizzamaking is that they don't have a New Haven style. While I admit that it's tough to do a coal oven at home, I do consider it a legit US subtype. ☺

Do you do your Chicago in a cast iron skillet? I've had some luck there but haven't tried in over a decade.
Very familiar with Slice!

Yes, I use a cast iron skillet for Chicago. Here's one of my posts with photos from back in 2009 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index ... 4#msg70434
User avatar
canon_shooter
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by canon_shooter »

People love talking about pizza and their techniques. A nice break from finances!

I have only recently purchased a Carbon Pizza Oven and am learning how to use it. My first attempt wasn't so great and the bottom was a bit undercooked while the tops came out nice. It's my first outdoor oven pizza oven designed for high temps. However...I have cooked a lot of pizzas on my Weber grill. I found that the best technique for me was to use the Elements of Pizza recipe and to parbake the pizzas in my electric oven. I then can freeze the parbaked dough. When it's time to entertain outside I thaw the untopped pies to room temp, top them and put them on the grill for about 4-5 minutes and they are done. When making a lot of pizzas quickly, I found this the way to go as I don't have to work with the dough in advance.

I preheat the grill to 550F with a baking steel and then importantly put a pizza mesh screen on the steel so the bottom of the dough does not burn.

The reason I finally went with the Carbon Oven was that I wanted that pizzaria experience and taste. A very hot oven can accomplish that while a grill is good, it's not the same. That all being said, one of the key things to a good pizza are the ingredients. Using poolish/tiga with a 00 flour makes a huge positive difference.
lazydavid
Posts: 3978
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by lazydavid »

For those of you with a local Ace Hardware store, they have three of the Ooni's on Black Friday sale already. The ad states the sale is limited to Nov 24-Dec 2, but the prices are live in their system (in-store only) as of Nov 17th. The three are:

Fyra 12 (wood pellets) for $279 ($20 off))
Karu 12 (wood/charcoal, optional propane) for $319 ($30 off)
Koda 16 (propane, optional NG) for $479 ($120 off)

I'm heading out now to pick up my Koda 16.
MP173
Posts: 2281
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:03 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by MP173 »

We make homemade pizza several times a year, mostly in the oven.

However we do have a Kettlepizza unit for the Weber charcoal grill. It fits right on top of the base and then the Weber lid is placed on it. Fire it with charcoal and wood chunks. The wood allows the temp to escalate...it has been over 900 degrees, but I try to keep it at 700.

Pizza cooking time is usually 2 minutes then rotate and and another 2 minutes. There is an opening so the lid does not need to be removed.
Ed
Topic Author
Harri88
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:15 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by Harri88 »

All, Ooni has their Black Friday sale going on 20% off site wide! I ordered the Koda 12 gas, a 12" peel and a turning peel. I'm looking forward to getting this! Going to look at a couple of the recommended books on Amazon - The Pizza Bible, and the Elements of Pizza.
paisano
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by paisano »

If you have access, the WSJ ran an article on the latest pizza ovens and pizza books on Oct 19: Secrets to Cooking Pro Pizza at Home: The Best Gear, Recipes and Tricks
JS-Elcano
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by JS-Elcano »

in2bait wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:45 pm Buy the Ooni and make the Ken Forkish 72 Hr Dough if you want true Neapolitan style pizza.

Lots of people think a dough ball from the local grocery store thrown on the grill makes good pizza. Or god forbid a BGE type ceramic grill pizza full of smoke.

If you want true leopard spotting and an authentic pie get the Ooni and put your time into learning the process. 00 flour, San Marzano Tomatoes, Buffalo Mozzarella, fresh basil.
You'll screw up a few at first, but after a few cooks you'll be cranking out truly great pizzas !
Completely agree with this. Would add to get the wood fired Ooni. I make Biga dough which starts off with a 16 hr ferment at RT, completely worth it. It freezes perfectly, btw.
golfrgirl
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:58 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by golfrgirl »

tonyclifton wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:13 am My gas grill will bury the thermometer needle around 650f but may get to 700f. I use one of these on the gas grill:

https://www.amazon.com/Stoneware-Therma ... B01GW4CDNO

My setup is the pizza stone, wooden peel (to place) and metal peel (to remove). I use the Caputo double zero Americana flour from Amazon. This flour makes all the difference. The results are fantastic. Pizza takes less than 3 minutes and sometimes I finish under the broiler.

This, too, is my setup for baking pizzas. However, I add bricks on the side of the grill space to set the stone on which elevates it to center height for better air circulation. My good ol' gas grill can easily achieve 600 degrees in 15 minutes of preheat and makes for quick baking time. I'm also a gluten-free pizza maker and have gotten some good results with the finicky doughs you get using those flour blends. Good stuff.
tonyclifton
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:25 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by tonyclifton »

golfrgirl wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:49 am This, too, is my setup for baking pizzas. However, I add bricks on the side of the grill space to set the stone on which elevates it to center height for better air circulation. My good ol' gas grill can easily achieve 600 degrees in 15 minutes of preheat and makes for quick baking time. I'm also a gluten-free pizza maker and have gotten some good results with the finicky doughs you get using those flour blends. Good stuff.
Interesting about the bricks. I get it and will try it. The air at the top of the grill would be very hot and help cook the top faster than the bottom. Gret tip. Thanks!
AnonJohn
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Pizza Ovens

Post by AnonJohn »

mkc wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:27 am
Very familiar with Slice!

Yes, I use a cast iron skillet for Chicago. Here's one of my posts with photos from back in 2009 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index ... 4#msg70434
Respect! Nice balance of sauce and prov and a good amount of brown on the crust. I lived in IL for a number of years and (as a thin crust guy) took a while to develop a grudging respect for Chicago style. ☺ I like it like you did, with a not extreme sauce to prov ratio. Thx for sharing!
Post Reply