~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

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psteinx
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~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by psteinx »

Might do a long road trip next summer (~August), with my 22 y.o. daughter.

From St. Louis area to San Francisco area. A bit over 2050 miles, per Mapquest.

Mapquest's route drifts north-ish, goes through/by Salt Lake City and Reno, then down through/by Sacramento and on to the Bay Area.

I've done various drives in my adult life - lots of ~300 milers, some 400-600 milers, and, around my college days, some 800 milers. But not 2000+ miles.

Would be to help daughter get moved out there. A bit of luggage in the back of Honda Civic Hatchback, but most stuff shipped separately.

I get along well with my daughter. She and I are competent drivers. But still. 3-5 days (depending on pace), in a small-ish car - prooooooobably ok?

I'm guess the first ~half of the trip, across the great plains until the edge of the Rockies, would be dull. I'd probably aim to do that in a quick, long shot, then go slower through Salt Lake City and Reno/Tahoe and maybe Sacramento.

Good stuff to see in SLC, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento? (I don't think I've been to any of these before.) Or aim for a different route?

Easy to get acceptable quality hotels/motels on the fly, or likely need to make reservations ahead of time?

Safe to have a lot of suitcases/stuff, hard to fully hide, in the back of a hatchback, as we make stops here and there and stay overnight in assorted hotels?

When we get to San Fran, we'll likely be apartment hunting for her. Easy/safe to street park a car around San Fran, or better to leave it in a hotel garage/lot and use other transport options?

I'll fly back solo. Ideally would like flexibility on time in San Fran (in case apartment hunt takes a while or whatever). How much pricier (likely) for a flight that is flexible on timing, or simply for a last minute flight?

Other thoughts/recommendations?

(Yeah, I know we could go a whole different way - ship the car and fly her/us out. But I kinda like the idea of the road trip, but am at least a little apprehensive about it, too...)
MarkRoulo
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by MarkRoulo »

psteinx wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:31 pm Might do a long road trip next summer (~August), with my 22 y.o. daughter.

From St. Louis area to San Francisco area. A bit over 2050 miles, per Mapquest.
...

Other thoughts/recommendations?
...
Depending on whether this is about the JOURNEY or the DESTINATION, I'll point out that
St. Louis to Santa Monica can be done by covering the old "Route 66." If you (pl) are willing
to take a few more days you could "do" much of Route 66 (stopping to see the retro tourist
nonsense ... that could be quite fun!) and then drive from LA to SF (either take highway 5
for speed, or a combination of highway 1 and highway 101 for the experience).

It probably adds a few days to your itinerary, but it makes the itinerary part of the fun
rather than something that must be done.
tibbitts
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by tibbitts »

Before the pandemic, I would have taken at least a week and seen some things along the way, at a leisurely pace. But depending to what degree the world is shut down at the time, maybe you should both just stay home. She can do whatever she does remotely and you can... read the Bogleheads forum.
adamthesmythe
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by adamthesmythe »

I have done several of these cross-country trips. I prefer to line up lodging ahead of time, with a conservative driving plan and aiming to stop at an interesting place. Ideally with a couple of the better restaurants (no Cracker Barrel please).

(Interesting for an hour or two of relaxation, that is. Not a high bar to clear).

Personally I would want something more comfortable than a Civic, but as a younger person I would have been OK with it. Depends on you, your physical size, and your tolerance.
Starfish
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Starfish »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm Before the pandemic, I would have taken at least a week and seen some things along the way, at a leisurely pace. But depending to what degree the world is shut down at the time, maybe you should both just stay home. She can do whatever she does remotely and you can... read the Bogleheads forum.
Flash news: the pandemic kinda finished about 6 moths ago. People travel, airports are full, there are almost no restrictions anymore (not even masks required).
A road trip through a mostly unpopulated area is pretty much one of the safest things one can do.
Good stuff to see in SLC, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento? (I don't think I've been to any of these before.) Or aim for a different route?
I personally like a lot 395 between Lake Tahoe and Death Valley. You could also take the long way and deviate to Mammoth or so, explore for a day around, cross Yosemite on 120. For example in one full day you can do Mammoth to SF and visit a bunch of stuff in Yosemite (Glacier Point, the Valley, climb some domes etc).
Kiter
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Kiter »

Loneliest road in America would be on my list
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by HawkeyePierce »

Try to keep each day under 500 miles IMO.

Personally I'd go through Colorado and Utah via 70, then pick up the Loneliest Highway in America across Nevada. You could throw in interesting stops in Yosemite, the Rockies (I'd recommend Glenwood Springs, hit up the hot springs and hike up to Hanging Lake) and Moab. I'd take Denver over Salt Lake City but that's just me.

80 is efficient but boring. So boring.

There is zero reason to stop in Sacramento IMO.

As for comfort, if you haven't ridden in that car for long periods before and you have back issues (I do) pick up some extra cushions. I have a memory foam wedge with a cutout for the coccyx and it makes a huge difference for me.

In SF I would definitely spring for garage parking.
jarjarM
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by jarjarM »

HawkeyePierce wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:00 pm
Personally I'd go through Colorado and Utah via 70, then pick up the Loneliest Highway in America across Nevada. You could throw in interesting stops in Yosemite, the Rockies (I'd recommend Glenwood Springs, hit up the hot springs and hike up to Hanging Lake) and Moab. I'd take Denver over Salt Lake City but that's just me.

80 is efficient but boring. So boring.
We just came back from a visit to Moab, I too would vote for 70 through colorado/Utah, amazing geological views along the route. SLC can be interesting too but don't go visit the mormon temple, it's under construction. And absolutely pay for garage in SF, or there will be a break-in.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by JackBoglereader21 »

My response is specific to San Francisco parking for your Civic Hatchback loaded with belongings and apartment hunting.

There are so many car break-ins here in SF that there is now an online tracker. It's not just the pandemic, this has how it's been for YEARS. Not a week goes by that I don't stop an out-of-town visitor to warn them about street parking (especially those with mini-vans or vehicles with exposed rare compartments). The criminals are gangs that come from outside of SF, working in teams to scout and source their victims. Yes, even if you parking at an indoor paid garage. North Beach Garage, which is in the same building as SF POLICE station has had break-ins :shock:

Regarding apartment hunting when you get here - I can chime in more if you would likely share your daughter's monthly rental budget.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/sf-car-breakins/
https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-car- ... /10841068/

Now that you have been warned, there's good news. San Francisco is actually a very safe little city if you know how to navigate it. Over many, many years I have gotten such valuable advice from this forum and my goal this year is to be able to contribute positively. I have lived and worked in SF all my life, know this city better than most.

Advice on parking: Make a plan to off load EVERYTHING from your vehicle. You are prime target with out-of-state license plates. Stay at a hotel that has parking included (I'd be happy to recommend a few if you share your budget). If you are doing Airbnb short term stay, watch out for areas with 2-Hour resident parking only. Parking tickets are expensive (think north of $70).

Good luck and feel free to ask add'l questions or message me. Welcome to the most beautiful city (just my opinion) in the world.
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Will do good
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Will do good »

JackBoglereader21 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:16 pm My response is specific to San Francisco parking for your Civic Hatchback loaded with belongings and apartment hunting.

There are so many car break-ins here in SF that there is now an online tracker. It's not just the pandemic, this has how it's been for YEARS. Not a week goes by that I don't stop an out-of-town visitor to warn them about street parking (especially those with mini-vans or vehicles with exposed rare compartments). The criminals are gangs that come from outside of SF, working in teams to scout and source their victims. Yes, even if you parking at an indoor paid garage. North Beach Garage, which is in the same building as SF POLICE station has had break-ins :shock:

Regarding apartment hunting when you get here - I can chime in more if you would likely share your daughter's monthly rental budget.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/sf-car-breakins/
https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-car- ... /10841068/

Now that you have been warned, there's good news. San Francisco is actually a very safe little city if you know how to navigate it. Over many, many years I have gotten such valuable advice from this forum and my goal this year is to be able to contribute positively. I have lived and worked in SF all my life, know this city better than most.

Advice on parking: Make a plan to off load EVERYTHING from your vehicle. You are prime target with out-of-state license plates. Stay at a hotel that has parking included (I'd be happy to recommend a few if you share your budget). If you are doing Airbnb short term stay, watch out for areas with 2-Hour resident parking only. Parking tickets are expensive (think north of $70).

Good luck and feel free to ask add'l questions or message me. Welcome to the most beautiful city (just my opinion) in the world.
+100, can't leave your stuffs out in the open in SF. Your window will be broken in no time. Happen to family member visiting.
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snackdog
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by snackdog »

I would not go more than 400 miles per day. Try to arrive late afternoon each day and relax. I would hit the sights along the way - Santa Fe, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Zion, maybe Vegas. If you want a lovely tour at the end, take Calif highway 1 from Ventura north to SF. Stop at Santa Barbara, San Simeon, Carmel/Monterrey. Make it a fabulous trip! Just ensure your daughter is really on board for it. I did this trip with my dad and we didn't speak for almost a week because I was in a funk about lost love. Haha.
RetiredAL
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by RetiredAL »

psteinx wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:31 pm
When we get to San Fran, we'll likely be apartment hunting for her. Easy/safe to street park a car around San Fran, or better to leave it in a hotel garage/lot and use other transport options?
There is no such thing as "safe" street parking in the city of SF. Hotel lots are only slightly better. Leave nothing visible in the car, take it all into your room. Enforcement towards controlling theft from auto's in nil.

Elsewhere, motel parking safety is reasonable. We made 2 trips from San Jose to Montana this year, two nightly stays each way, and I had no qualms about leaving stuff in our SUV overnight. We did cover everything with a blanket.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Sounds like fun to me!

I would not miss Lake Tahoe if you've never been. In addition to all the other great suggestions you will receive, consider: Arches, Craters of the Moon, Goblin Valley State Park.

And be sure that you both have lots of music you can listen to without imposing upon the other :wink:
Big Dog
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Big Dog »

Parking in SF City is NOT safe. Break-ins (aka, smash-and-grab) are common. Be wary about hotel garages, as some hotel valets use the local public lot down the street, adn her car will standout with stuff in it.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by an_asker »

Kiter wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:48 pm Loneliest road in America would be on my list
Try Salt Lake City to Reno on I-80 via Winnemucca. You cannot get much more remote than that!
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by an_asker »

snackdog wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:26 pm [...]I did this trip with my dad and we didn't speak for almost a week because I was in a funk about lost love. Haha.
:oops:
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Random Musings
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Random Musings »

2,000 miles isn't bad. I think the first day you should start very early (pre dawn,) and get through the Midwest. Perhaps as far as Cheyenne WY, Denver CO or if really ambitious Albuqueque, NM. Which way to go depends on what you want to see out west. With two of you driving, can easily get 800 miles or more out of the way and actually have four days with moderate driving days where you can actually see (and do) some interesting stuff. Will Day One be boring? I can tell you a big yes as I have done it a few times. Pack a lunch for the road to save time But days 2 to 5 will be more enjoyable. With St. Louis as the starting point, logistically it has some appeal.

RM
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by MrMars »

If you two are into hiking and/or taking in scenic beauty I highly recommend an itinerary that takes you through Denver, across the Rockies and into Moab, Utah where you can visit Arches National Park and Canyonlands NP. Then make your way to Capitol Reef NP. From there take the single most scenic drive in the country, yes better than the PCH, through Escalante and into Bryce Canyon NP. From there it's a short jaunt to Zion NP. Then on your way to Vegas make a stop at Valley of Fire State Park. It's 200 miles longer than what you've proposed but I promise the scenery is mind blowing. Even if you don't love hiking you'll enjoy the parks and the scenery. If you want more parks there's a ton of other state parks in Utah to stop and explore along the way. But if you just want to see the major parks this route will keep you in awe.

You could also get on the PCH in San Luis Obispo and take it to SF. It's not the ideal direction to travel the PCH in but it's still beautiful.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by dandinsac »

If you’re into history, Interstate 80 to Sacramento was approximately the big overland route for the California 49ers. There are a lot of sights, museums and other attractions along the way to help you break up the drive. Once you get to California, Donner Lake state park has a nice museum, Sutter Creek, Amador City, Placerville, Auburn and Nevada City all have gold rush era downtowns. Gold was first discovered in what is now Marshall State Park.And, Sacramento has Sutter’s Fort which was the destination of all the pioneers, the early ones who really had no idea how to get to California.

If this seems interesting, the book, “The World Rushed In: The California Gold Rush Experience” by J. S. Holliday is a great read. He describes the overland trip of a miner to seek his fortune.
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Watty
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Watty »

psteinx wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:31 pm Easy to get acceptable quality hotels/motels on the fly, or likely need to make reservations ahead of time?
I did a similar length road trip from Atlanta to Montana a few years ago.

That was before the pandemic but for stops along the interstate I would highly recommend not making non refundable reservations ahead of time when you are east of the Rockies since you will be driving through farm and ranch areas where there are lots of small towns with hotels. The problem is having a reservation will lock you into either stopping early or driving farther when you are tired.

As much as possible don't target driving 400 or 500 miles a day and just be ready to stop when before you get too tired. You may have some stretches where the speed limit is 75 or 80 MPH so it may not take all that long to put in 400 miles.

I just used the Expedia App and at maybe two in the afternoon I would decide how far I wanted to go that day and book a hotel. It was not on that trip but I have run into things like there was a state softball tournament at some town so all the hotels were booked up. That was no problem since the next town 30 miles down the road had plenty of rooms.

There are a couple of exceptions to this;

1) Holidays and weekends are more likely to have busy hotels.

2) If you have some place like a national park that you want to visit then be sure to book reservations. Even in a normal year they will be packed in August and with the pandemic they will be even worse. Some national parks will even require reservations to get into the park.

3) In Wyoming and Nevada there will be very sparsely populated stretches with few hotels or even restaurants. Even a "big" town in Wyoming or Nevada may be tiny with and all the hotels may fill up on a weekend or when there is some event going on. For that stretch I would check an app like Expedia about five days ahead of time to make sure that there are plenty of hotels available and then check it again each day. If you start seeing fewer hotels with openings then go on and book a room.

A lot depends on if you can make fully refundable reservations or not. Sometimes when you make a reservation directly on hotels website it will have better reservations cancelation terms than if book it on some place like Expedia. If you are signed in with your hotel rewards account you may also get better cancelation terms. Many of the hotel chains are actually owned by Hilton or Marriott so if you sign up for their hotel rewards accounts that will cover a lot of options.
psteinx wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:31 pm Other thoughts/recommendations?
Make a point of stopping the car and stretching your legs every hour or so.

If you make reservations for something like a tour or show in Reno then be sure you are looking at the right time zone.

Have a printed list of important phone numbers in case your cell phone is broken or lost.

Take windex and paper towels and clean your car windows each morning and again when you get gas. You will be going through some spectacular country so you want to be able to see it. You can't depend on the gas stations always having a clean squeegee.

Since you are driving to the west you will be driving into the sun late in the afternoon so having a clean windshield(inside and out) will help. To avoid driving into the sun too much try to get an early start then stop before the sun gets too low in the sky.

You will be driving through some brutal desert areas where you likely do not get any cell phone service. Take plenty of water with you just in case the car breaks down. Make sure that the car is in good shape and that the tires and spare are good. Hopefully the car has a spare since some new cars don't.

Keep track of wildfires and smoke from wildfires. Those have been a big problem the last few years.

When you are in Wyoming or Nevada if you have a chance try to get away from the city lights one evening just to look at the stars if there is a clear moonless night.

For long drives audio books will help a lot. You can likely download them from your local libraries website. Trying to find books that both you and your daughter may be tricky and having an audio book playing that you do not like can be torture and make the long drive even worse. Talk this over and make sure that you both are OK with telling the other that you do not want to listen to that book. Podcasts can also be interesting for a break but listening to 8 hours of podcasts can get old. You may be able to find some book that is based in San Francisco which will help keep you focused on the trip. Make sure that your connections to the car to play the audio book work before the trip. Have charger cables for your cell phones in the car.
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Watty
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Watty »

Random Musings wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:29 pm Will Day One be boring? I can tell you a big yes as I have done it a few times.
I was raised in St. Louis and have done the drive between St. Louis and Denver at least a half dozen times. That drive across Kansas seems to go on forever, and then you get to the Colorado border and it looks just the same for another hundred miles. :oops:
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psteinx
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by psteinx »

Thanks all. Lots of good advice in this thread. Maybe we'll take a slightly longer, more southerly route for better views/stops. Bryce Canyon looks cool. I'm not a huge hiker, but 3-4 miles in a pretty setting is reasonable, if the weather is ok (in August, not too hot).

Lotta folks saying shorter stretches than I was thinking - 400-500 miles. On days when we've got something good in the morning or evening, that seems reasonable, but with 2 people, covering the boring part(s) across the Great Plains it seems like we could do 800+ miles in a day.

As far as San Francisco itself:

We've both been there, but my main experience was long ago, and hers was a very short passthrough, but she also plans on visiting over winter break, in part to check out areas. She'll be looking for an apartment with boyfriend (dad is not entirely keen on the living arrangements, but...), with a pretty fat budget (two bigtech salaries) - maybe $3500-4000, but could go higher if really needed. Dad may be an asset in looking at apartments, as he is older, wiser in his own head at least, and boyfriend will likely be starting job before daughter, and have less time to look (working).

Location for work proximity is not certain, but probably downtown San Francisco. If that IS the case, then, so far, they're interested in Inner Richmond. But I don't think either of them really know that or other San Francisco neighborhoods, yet. Dad is ofc worried about the crime and other street-level issues of San Francisco. Hard to know if folks are somewhat exaggerating outlier incidents, or if the "norm" is as bad as many folks say... Yes, the Tenderloin may be bad, but if you stay out of there and other rough parts, how bad is it?
Last edited by psteinx on Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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psteinx
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by psteinx »

Watty wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:30 pm I was raised in St. Louis and have done the drive between St. Louis and Denver at least a half dozen times. That drive across Kansas seems to go on forever, and then you get to the Colorado border and it looks just the same for another hundred miles. :oops:
I remember at least one trip from St. L to Colorado. Yeah, really boring scenery for most of the drive.
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psteinx
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by psteinx »

I have bored my daughter too many times with this story, so I will bore BH:

When I was 21, I had a summer internship lined up in San Fran. Had never been before, I think. I flew into Oakland, stayed at a hotel there that night, got a bunch of newspapers, circled "For Rent" ads, and set out the next morning (via BART) to find myself a ~furnished rental for the summer. Started at cheapest. Oops, ok, this Tenderloin area is NOT GOOD. But I actually found and rented a place by the end of the day, IIRC, and so managed to be out of the hotel after 2 nights. $500/mo for a furnished studio (6xx Post). Coulda done cheaper/better if didn't need furnished & short term. The world has changed...
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by StrangePenguin »

Lots of good advice already given. I’ve moved to the Bay Area by car twice in my life now. The first time, when I was just out of college, was Maryland to silicon valley over 3 weeks (with my girlfriend who is now my wife). We went way out of our way and saw all sorts of parks and attractions and it was one of the best experiences of my life. (But our parents were not there LOL). The second time was just last year, Chicago to silicon valley in just over 3 days. With one or two small exceptions, no sites or “fun” of any kind.

The first thing you’ve got to answer is how much time do you want to spend on this trip. It’s a complete blast to take the scenic routes and stop at attractions and parks. But all of those things add up fast in terms of the time needed. The more you decide to do those fun things, the more you really have to plan an itinerary for the trip. Once you have a time limit decided then you can weigh the various attractions and what kind of route they require and how long it would take.

If you’re just on the interstate then there’s no need to book hotels in advance. But to stay in specific places like National Parks then you need to be more careful. If you don’t have reservations, then you want to have an approximate but flexible goal for each day. In particular in Wyoming, Utah, and Nevada where there can be nothing for hours at a time.

When driving, know your limitations and don’t push it. If you need to stop, then stop. I’ve learned that I get sleepy after dinner when I’m driving, so I try plan my driving days to be almost over by that point. Having a second driver helps enormously. Definitely cue up some music and prepare for the fact that you may not have cell phone signal even on the interstate in some places. (Doubly so if you’re off the interstate.) Back in 2002 I remember being in awe in western Utah when we hit the “seek” button on the FM radio and it spun the entire way around the dial without ever stopping.

If you do the boring route on I-80, then St Louis -> SF is almost identical to my trip of Chicago -> SF last year. We got to North Platte, Nebraska on Day 1, which was a long day but we were still there by 8pm. We packed a lunch and ate while driving that day. Second day was much easier to Salt Lake City — we even had time to stop for a long lunch in Wyoming. Then almost to SF on Day 3 (we stopped west of Sacramento just because our temporary living was not available until the next morning). Only the first day is long.

Some advice on packing that car — my experience is that there are so many items when you’re moving where you say “I’ll just throw that in the car”. It adds up quick and that car will be full before you know it. Last year we drove a full-sized sedan and boy did it fill up, even though we had full-service movers who had taken most of our stuff!
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by tomsense76 »

That sounds like fun! :D

Have done 2 road trips cross-country. Would do it again if the opportunity struck. The first time was a bit more leisurely as I had more time. The second time was a bit of a race (with a late start :shock:).

In terms of hotels, only really used hotels on the 2nd trip (the 1st one was primarily camping). Honestly just winging it worked out fine. Though it couldn't hurt to plan a day or 2 in advance. Also depends on when you are traveling. During the week can be easier to snag a hotel. The weekend can get trickier. Conferences, sports, etc. can also derail plans as well so something to be mindful of.

Would make sure car is in good working order. Really recommend having some kind of tow service ready either through insurance or AAA. Extra miles of towing can be worth it especially if you get stranded in the boonies. It use to be the case that one would need to change oil after a really long road trip (like in SF in your case and then when you get back home). Newer cars can likely make it there and back before needing an oil change. If you are traveling this time of year, get tire chains. Some roads will require them and won't let you in if you don't have them. Also practice putting them on. Here's a list of things to check. If you are unsure whether something needs to be fixed on the car, err on the side of caution. Last thing you want is to be stuck in a small town waiting for weeks to get parts and a mechanics time to fix your car (that is slow even without the supply chain issues we have today).

There is a lot of beautiful scenery. Already lots of good suggestions from others on that. Definitely would take some time to see these sights to the extent your schedule allows. My favorite is probably Bryce Canyon. There are lots of canyons, but this one sticks out to me due to the weird rock formations (hoodoos) there.

Random other tips: Nevada can get really windy. So be ready for that. If you go through Donner Pass, which it sounds like you will, be prepared for bad weather and try to go through it during the daytime if you can. Even if it looks fine, things can/do change in a moment's notice.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by celia »

I’d re-visit the car idea.

We’ve been there several times and it is hard to find parking. The ground is not level, except for the downtown area. I HATE driving uphill only to have to wait for a light at the top and hardly able to see the following drop. There are tons of one-way streets. And there are lots of buses and delivery trucks in the traffic. I’d say that the majority of residents use public transportation instead of owning a vehicle.

However, public transit there is very good and I recommend it instead. I suggest your daughter re-think having a car there. And if she will have a job before she gets there, she could become familar with what kind of transit goes near her office. Then follow those routes and try to find an apartment near those lines.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by vested1 »

When I was a teenager my parents and I would drive to Missouri to visit my married sister, taking the northern route there and the southern route back, or vice versa. I would call Kansas anything but boring, as dodging lightning bolts and bouncing sagebrush keeps you alert. I preferred the far northern route, especially in August.

One tip though, don't utter the words San Fran once you get there. It sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard to the locals.

Some of the residential neighborhoods are wonderful, like Nob Hill, but all of them have something to offer, like seafood in the Embarcadero, and physical fitness from dodging bullets in the Mission district. Just kidding. San Francisco has a lot to offer, from fantastic dining to stage performances. I would search for a popular play as far in advance as possible, and try to get tickets as soon as they go on sale.

For an upgraded experience in a sports venue that is unmatched, watching a team that won 107 games this year to lead the majors, I would get tickets to see a Giants game. Who knows, they might even be playing the Cardinals while you're there in August, and if you don't mind seeing your team lose, you and your daughter can enjoy a crab sandwich and a cold beer on a cool weekday night. :wink:
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by treesinthewind »

We did a similar distance trip (SoCal to Indianapolis) a few years ago. I hadn't been a AAA member for years, but I joined for this trip. Their online road trip planner was a really useful tool, and I even went into an office and got an old-school triptik for our route and picked up the guides for the states we were traveling through. Their agent walked me through their online tool to make the triptik and helped me estimate how far we would get each day and what towns with lodging would be reasonable to aim for. (I was traveling with small children and didn't want to be in the middle of Kansas at 9 pm with no hotel for another 100 miles). Each day at lunch I would look at where we were likely to land that evening, crack open the guidebook and call the recommended hotels and make a reservation for that night. Only once did I have to call more than one hotel. It may seem old-fashioned but it was really helpful to have the AAA curated lists of hotels (plus restaurants and attractions) instead of wading through Yelp or Kayak every day.

When you check into your hotel, ask for a recommendation for a locally owned family restaurant for dinner. This also only failed once in a one-week trip, and we had a lot of surprisingly fantastic meals.

I agree with the other posters, about 400 miles a day is about the most you want to plan on in one day if you want to actually do some sightseeing and get to bed at a reasonable time each day. (Ie, enjoy the trip)
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by WoodSpinner »

an_asker wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:26 pm
Kiter wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:48 pm Loneliest road in America would be on my list
Try Salt Lake City to Reno on I-80 via Winnemucca. You cannot get much more remote than that!
Actually you absolutely can …..

My vote is Hwy 6 across Utah/NV. Much lonelier than the more famous Hwy 50….

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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by JackoC »

an_asker wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:26 pm
Kiter wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:48 pm Loneliest road in America would be on my list
Try Salt Lake City to Reno on I-80 via Winnemucca. You cannot get much more remote than that!
The reference is to US-50 'loneliest road'. You can take I-70 across MO, KS, CO and eastern UT, then US-50 across western UT and NV to Reno. I-80 in NV is through remote areas, but US-50 is at another level, 10's of minutes at a time without any other cars in sight. Also that passes you right by Great Basin NP in eastern NV one of the most overlooked and underrated NP's IMO. The famous parks in UT deserve their legendary reputations for spectacular sights, but some are chronically crowded, Arches for example. There's one motel of something like 10 rooms in Baker NV near Great Basin, some other types of lodging and campers, but the next significant cluster of hotels is in Ely NV over an hour away, so it's hard for Great Basin to be crowded. If the trip would have time for stuff like hiking up to Wheeler Peak (13k ft), Rock Glacier (11k), etc. that is. It was in the upper 60's with snow still on the ground up there this past June, nights dipped below freezing, vs. 90's the day before at Canyonlands in UT. The beauty is at the 'hard to believe this is real' level like the most famous NP's, but not crowded.

We generally avoid significant cities on our road trips (often much longer than 2k miles), and usually Interstates too (I plot out non-Interstate routes on purpose, not just US-50). SF is an exception IMO of a US city still worth seeing even if you have NY right nearby all the time like we do, subject to the issues other people mentioned which seem to have intensified. But with proper precautions the % chance of something bad happening to you personally is low in tourist areas almost anywhere, you just need to have your car secured somewhere.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by HawkeyePierce »

WoodSpinner wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:04 am
an_asker wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:26 pm
Kiter wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:48 pm Loneliest road in America would be on my list
Try Salt Lake City to Reno on I-80 via Winnemucca. You cannot get much more remote than that!
Actually you absolutely can …..

My vote is Hwy 6 across Utah/NV. Much lonelier than the more famous Hwy 50….

WoodSpinner
6 is pretty darn remote, but if I had to pick only one road across (part of) Utah, it's 12 from Torrey to Panguitch.

Plus if OP takes 12 they could even pop down to the north rim of the Grand Canyon. Way less crowded than the south rim.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by 22twain »

celia wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:48 am However, public transit there is very good and I recommend it instead. I suggest your daughter re-think having a car there. And if she will have a job before she gets there, she could become familar with what kind of transit goes near her office. Then follow those routes and try to find an apartment near those lines.
This.

I've visited SF a few times myself, once for a two-week stay. Never with a car. I always used public transportation, and found it completely adequate for getting around the city itself, and even for trips to nearby places like Berkeley. I would consider owning a car there only if I needed one regularly for out-of-town trips to places that are inconvenient or impossible to reach by public transportation. For occasional trips one can rent a car.
It's "IRMAA" (Income Related Monthly Adjustment Amount), not "IIRMA" or "IRRMA" or "IRMMA".
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by niagara_guy »

I didn't read the whole post. Temperatures in August in most of Utah are above 100 degrees. Probably hotter in Nevada. High elevations ( 7000 feet and up) will be much cooler and more pleasant. Check out the national parks along the way. I-70 (Denver to Glenwood Springs) is much more scenic than I-80.

Amtrak is another option. The part through the rockies is done during the daytime. Also goes through the Sierra Nevadas during daylight.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by JackBoglereader21 »

$3,500-$4,000 is a good budget. I would definitely find something that includes a parking space as your budget allows for it.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/d/ ... 67459.html

If they are working Downtown then consider anything that is within 2-3 blocks of SFMTA light rail line. This listing is for the Inner Sunset (N line), a vibrate, walkable and lovely neighborhood. Close to UCSF Medical Center, walkable to Golden Gate Park where you can bike, hike or go to a music festival without paying $100 for uber (Outside Lands this weekend). Don't go pass 19th Avenue as the light rail ride gets a little too long. Also West Portal, Forest Hill, Parkside (K, M T lines) are wonderful places to live. And then Noe Valley (J line). I would stay away from the T line as you will have to deal with Giants/Warriors/Concerts/Mission Bay construction/UCSF traffic throughout the year. Outer Sunset is generating a lot of buzz but day-in, day-out commuting on light rail Downtown gets boring.

The Richmond, Marina, North Beach, Russian Hill are served by Muni Bus which is a bit less desirable than the light rail (IMO). Younger folks like the Mission, Castro, Valencia Corridor but they will discover that you don't want to live where you party. You go to work and you want to come home to a nice, clean and safe neighborhood where you can wake up Sunday morning and walk to breakfast. Friday night you can enjoy dinner in the Mission or Saturday lunch in the Marina. SF is only 7x7 miles, small city, you can get anywhere within 30 minutes.

Finally, the Tenderloin, SOMA, East Cut --- For newcomers, it's not where you want to start out.

Anyway, $3,500 and up, plenty of wonderful options. Shop for a place with parking, in building laundry and access to the backyard. 2-3 blocks to transit and they will be very happy.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by JackBoglereader21 »

22twain wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:51 am
celia wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:48 am However, public transit there is very good and I recommend it instead. I suggest your daughter re-think having a car there. And if she will have a job before she gets there, she could become familar with what kind of transit goes near her office. Then follow those routes and try to find an apartment near those lines.
This.

I've visited SF a few times myself, once for a two-week stay. Never with a car. I always used public transportation, and found it completely adequate for getting around the city itself, and even for trips to nearby places like Berkeley. I would consider owning a car there only if I needed one regularly for out-of-town trips to places that are inconvenient or impossible to reach by public transportation. For occasional trips one can rent a car.
With a rental budget of $3,500-$4,000 they will find a place with a parking. Obviously they would utilize MUNI to work Downtown but there are compelling reasons to own a car in San Francisco. Weekend trips to Muir Woods, Point Reyes, Napa/Sonoma, Marin County, the East Bay, South Bay, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Mendocino, Tahoe, Yosemite. And then there's the Costco, Whole Foods runs that daily life requires. You really don't want to depend on transit unless that's your only option. Yes, yes, I know you can have anything and everything delivered but unless you are homebound it's really nice to be in community shopping with fellow residents.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by psteinx »

Neither of them have lived out there before, and there are a lot of interesting places to visit within, say, 100 miles. Yes, there are workarounds if you don't own a car. But the last time I looked into this, it seems most (not all) households in San Francisco DO have a vehicle.

And, in the brief time I worked out there a long time ago, not having a car made shopping inconvenient, and was just generally limiting. Yes, delivery is better now, but still...
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by JackBoglereader21 »

psteinx wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:26 pm Neither of them have lived out there before, and there are a lot of interesting places to visit within, say, 100 miles. Yes, there are workarounds if you don't own a car. But the last time I looked into this, it seems most (not all) households in San Francisco DO have a vehicle.

And, in the brief time I worked out there a long time ago, not having a car made shopping inconvenient, and was just generally limiting. Yes, delivery is better now, but still...
For new residents, what makes owning a car difficult is parking. If they find a rental with parking, they should absolutely keep their car. There is spectacular scenery and enjoyable places to visit within 25, 50 and 100 miles - none of which is possible without a car. SF is my hometown, I grew up in a home with 3 cars, 1 driver (my Dad), all parked on the street. I now live in a house with a garage but our 2 cars are parked on the street, always on our block. My spouse commutes Downtown on the light rail lines K, M, or T - 9 stops, 20 minutes door-to-door.

My advice: Keep your car at least for the first year so you can explore Northern California. Convert to CA license plate ASAP so not to attract smash-and-grab thieves. Must rent a place with parking. Factor in a budget of $500/year for parking tickets so you are not shell shocked when you get one (It's October and I've used up $78 of my $500 budget).

Finally, there are lots of bike lanes and we generally have bikeable weather BUT PLEASE stay safe. If you plan to commute or do a good amount of biking on city streets research SF Bike Coalition. They have classes that will teach you how to lock up your bike and - most importantly - not die on the streets of San Francisco. We have a good amount of pedestrian and cyclist deaths - it's very sad. One way streets, narrow streets, some streets have metered green lights which means speeds up to 50 mph on a city street. Stay safe.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by psteinx »

Re: break-ins and parking:

Is the norm for smaller apartment buildings that have parking, to have enclosed parking behind the building (via an alley)? Are those garages, if kept locked, safe-ish?

And if you street park in a decent neighborhood (hopefully Sunset or Richmond qualify), and don't do anything obviously wrong (leave valuables in a visible spot), is that still relatively high risk for break-ins?

If you, say, lived in Richmond and wanted to have dinner in Chinatown or near Fisherman's Wharf, would it make sense, and be realistic, to drive, or would you almost always make use of public transport or Uber or whatever?

Finally: One hears a lot about the car break-in problems, the shoplifting, and the visible squalor. But what about the threat of actual violence and/or mugging (or worse), especially for a young female? Could a young female, or a young male/female couple, comfortably walk, at night, 3 blocks to Golden Gate park, then half a mile around the park and back? 5 blocks to a restaurant in a residential neighborhood? At 9 pm to a bar 3 blocks away, have a couple drinks, then safely walk home with minimal risk?
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by White Coat Investor »

Consider transitioning from I-70 to I-80 in Utah. That gives you Denver, Southern Utah, Northern Utah and Northern Nevada and none in Wyoming.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by JackBoglereader21 »

psteinx wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:21 pm Re: break-ins and parking:

Is the norm for smaller apartment buildings that have parking, to have enclosed parking behind the building (via an alley)? Are those garages, if kept locked, safe-ish?

And if you street park in a decent neighborhood (hopefully Sunset or Richmond qualify), and don't do anything obviously wrong (leave valuables in a visible spot), is that still relatively high risk for break-ins?

If you, say, lived in Richmond and wanted to have dinner in Chinatown or near Fisherman's Wharf, would it make sense, and be realistic, to drive, or would you almost always make use of public transport or Uber or whatever?

Finally: One hears a lot about the car break-in problems, the shoplifting, and the visible squalor. But what about the threat of actual violence and/or mugging (or worse), especially for a young female? Could a young female, or a young male/female couple, comfortably walk, at night, 3 blocks to Golden Gate park, then half a mile around the park and back? 5 blocks to a restaurant in a residential neighborhood? At 9 pm to a bar 3 blocks away, have a couple drinks, then safely walk home with minimal risk?
Great questions - and ones I would be asking if my 22 year old was moving to an urban city.

Yes, apartment buildings, 2-3 units will have attached enclosed garage. Your budget of $3,500-$4,000, don't sell for a carport or a parking spot. Shop for an enclosed garaged with an assigned space.

There's risk of break-in in EVERY neighborhood, for a variety of reasons. And then there's the Catalytic convertor thefts - google it - Honda Accords need to watch out. The only advice to give you is convert to CA plates asap, no visible belongings, and fully insure the car.

Live in Richmond/Sunset and dinner in Chinatown, Wharf ? I would drive. Park in North Beach Garage, Portsmouth Square, Pier 39 lot. Expect to pay $20 for parking but that's cheaper than round trip uBer. And yes there will be night time free street parking but being a new resident I would budget for paid parking instead of paying your comprehensive deductible if something happens to your car.

Actual violence, mugging, or worst ? San Francisco is no more dangerous than LA, New York, Chicago. Look for the data online - violent crime is down, murder is down. the answer is yes, they can walk to dinner, restaurant, bar safely but they need to stay alert. Don't look at their phones, be aware of surroundings, stay on well lit streets, use their gut instinct. If it feels unsafe, it is unsafe. Don't go down an alleyway Downtown or in the Tenderloin after dark. Walk in the Richmond, Sunset, West Portal, Noe Valley, Pac Heights, Russian Hill, Marina between 6pm-10pm -- no problem.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by psteinx »

Thanks - good info on crime, etc.

A difference, maybe, between San Francisco, and St. Louis (which we're quite familiar with) and Chicago (which we're somewhat familiar with), is that the latter two are bigger areas, and violent crime tends to be concentrated in certain smaller areas within the metro. San Francisco is small, and while the Tenderloin in particular has a bad reputation, I'm not sure about the safety of the more residential areas further from downtown. Sounds like those are a bit safer, but still have issues... Then again, my daughter's college apartment now (in the city of St. Louis), has issues...
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by jarjarM »

psteinx wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:21 pm Re: break-ins and parking:

Is the norm for smaller apartment buildings that have parking, to have enclosed parking behind the building (via an alley)? Are those garages, if kept locked, safe-ish?

And if you street park in a decent neighborhood (hopefully Sunset or Richmond qualify), and don't do anything obviously wrong (leave valuables in a visible spot), is that still relatively high risk for break-ins?

If you, say, lived in Richmond and wanted to have dinner in Chinatown or near Fisherman's Wharf, would it make sense, and be realistic, to drive, or would you almost always make use of public transport or Uber or whatever?

Finally: One hears a lot about the car break-in problems, the shoplifting, and the visible squalor. But what about the threat of actual violence and/or mugging (or worse), especially for a young female? Could a young female, or a young male/female couple, comfortably walk, at night, 3 blocks to Golden Gate park, then half a mile around the park and back? 5 blocks to a restaurant in a residential neighborhood? At 9 pm to a bar 3 blocks away, have a couple drinks, then safely walk home with minimal risk?
Risk of car break-in is high, especially with out of state license plate. Parking in an enclosed garage is better but can't complete avoid break-ins. And car break-ins don't care much about neighborhoods but avoiding the obvious do tend to reduce the risk. As for actual violence crime, the risk is pretty low. Plenty of young professionals walk a few block to hit the bars/clubs and walk back at 1am without much risk (obviously need to pay attention to surrounding like any other major cities).
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by SmallSaver »

The drive across southern Wyoming is very boring, and crossing Nevada that way is interesting in it's barrenness, but is also pretty monotonous. I'd go through Denver/Grand Junction/Moab. Anywhere in the high country of CO or that part of Utah is worth checking out. Maybe go through Vegas, check out Death Valley, then drive up the east side of the Sierras (soak in the Lobster Pot hot springs) and cut through Yosemite from the East, staying a night or two in Tuolumne Meadows. Two of the countries great mountain ranges, red rock desert, and Vegas all in one trip. Basically grab a paper atlas, take a rough look at the route, and try to hit interesting stuff.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by Random Musings »

Watty wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:30 pm
Random Musings wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:29 pm Will Day One be boring? I can tell you a big yes as I have done it a few times.
I was raised in St. Louis and have done the drive between St. Louis and Denver at least a half dozen times. That drive across Kansas seems to go on forever, and then you get to the Colorado border and it looks just the same for another hundred miles. :oops:
Went to school in St. Louis. Did the drive with classmates to Estes a few times so to have full day RMNP very next day. I think it makes sense with two drivers to bite the bullet and drive to around Denver day 1, perhaps even more if they are inspired. Then, if it were me, I could enjoy a little of western CO, Utah (Capitol Reef, Bryce (via Route 12, highly recommended) , Kolub Canyons section of Zion (a bit cooler than the main section which will be a zoo). North Rim Grand Canyon also doesn't get too hot, but it would be backtracking unless you head through Moab and go south. If that's the choice, I'd stay in the park overnight and make reservations soon. Love Arches and Canyonlands, but those will be very toasty in August, plus they have been shutting down Arches once it gets too full, which on some days is pretty early. IMHO, you have to hit Arches on foot to see most of the good stuff anyway. I would map out various day 2 to 5 plans, then see if you can get reservations for certain areas. I also like Kings Canyon/Sequoia NPs in CA.

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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by jlawrence01 »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm Before the pandemic, I would have taken at least a week and seen some things along the way, at a leisurely pace. But depending to what degree the world is shut down at the time, maybe you should both just stay home. She can do whatever she does remotely and you can... read the Bogleheads forum.
I just made the Cleveland - Phoenix round trip over the past month. I saw no evidence of shutdowns anywhere along the way.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by tibbitts »

jlawrence01 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:17 pm
tibbitts wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm Before the pandemic, I would have taken at least a week and seen some things along the way, at a leisurely pace. But depending to what degree the world is shut down at the time, maybe you should both just stay home. She can do whatever she does remotely and you can... read the Bogleheads forum.
I just made the Cleveland - Phoenix round trip over the past month. I saw no evidence of shutdowns anywhere along the way.
I was responding to the "next summer" aspect. Earlier this year, vaccines became available, and pandemic restrictions eased. Then toward the middle of the year the delta surge occurred, and all of a sudden public buildings and businesses were requiring masks again, and suddenly there was once again no hospital capacity for Covid patients. So I'm saying that we have no idea what the situation will be nine or ten months from now. So far all my assumptions have been proven wrong.
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Re: ~2050 mile road trip, St L to San Fran? (via Salt Lake and Reno/Tahoe, maybe)

Post by JackoC »

tibbitts wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:55 pm
jlawrence01 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:17 pm
tibbitts wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm Before the pandemic, I would have taken at least a week and seen some things along the way, at a leisurely pace. But depending to what degree the world is shut down at the time, maybe you should both just stay home. She can do whatever she does remotely and you can... read the Bogleheads forum.
I just made the Cleveland - Phoenix round trip over the past month. I saw no evidence of shutdowns anywhere along the way.
I was responding to the "next summer" aspect. Earlier this year, vaccines became available, and pandemic restrictions eased. Then toward the middle of the year the delta surge occurred, and all of a sudden public buildings and businesses were requiring masks again, and suddenly there was once again no hospital capacity for Covid patients. So I'm saying that we have no idea what the situation will be nine or ten months from now. So far all my assumptions have been proven wrong.
Right, it's unpredictable. But on our road trip almost all the way across the country and back in June there was particularly little evidence of any (enforced) Covid restrictions in the Intermountain West. I remember a gas station convenience store in Moab UT with a sign about wearing a mask to enter, and we were outside fumbling to find ours since we'd seen few such signs, and the counter person actually came out and said 'oh don't worry about that, come on in'. :happy How a person feels about risk of Covid to themselves while traveling, or in general, is individual but my assumption (though it could also be proved wrong) is many parts of the country are done with serious Covid restrictions as a matter of broad public opinion, it doesn't hinge on this month's or that month's stats. Some of those places never had many restrictions. Some attractions like National Parks are subject to federal rules, and at that time not all NP visitor centers were open for example (most were), but even that situation taking a radical turn back to restriction, where you couldn't go into the park, I think it unlikely, but again predicting the future... And California could be a different story.
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psteinx
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Road trip, St L to Bay Area

Post by psteinx »

Updated route/plan.

Still planning to drive, with daughter, but in July, not August. New plan is a bit more southerly, to pick up Bryce and Zion in Southern Utah (that D really wants to see/hike, and Vegas, because it's on the way, and I like it, and D has not seen it. D is over 21).

Plan:

Day 1 : Stl->Denver area (longest driving day of the trip)
Day 2: Denver area -> Bryce
Day 3: Some Bryce hiking in the AM, then drive->Zion
Day 4: Zion hiking
Day 5: Maybe a bit more AM Zion hiking, then drive->Las Vegas
Day 6: Vegas hangout
Day 7: Drive to Bay Area on the interior route through California. We'll probably terminate in South Bay Area somewhere, rather than San Francisco proper.

Basically, all interstate. Very long drive on day 1, long-ish drive on day 7, but most of the other driving days are shorter. Need to nail down the exact plan - probably book the hotels at Bryce, Zion, Vegas ahead of time...
MarkRoulo
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:25 am

Re: Road trip, St L to Bay Area

Post by MarkRoulo »

psteinx wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:17 pm Updated route/plan.

Still planning to drive, with daughter, but in July, not August. New plan is a bit more southerly, to pick up Bryce and Zion in Southern Utah (that D really wants to see/hike, and Vegas, because it's on the way, and I like it, and D has not seen it. D is over 21).

Plan:

Day 1 : Stl->Denver area (longest driving day of the trip)
Day 2: Denver area -> Bryce
Day 3: Some Bryce hiking in the AM, then drive->Zion
Day 4: Zion hiking
Day 5: Maybe a bit more AM Zion hiking, then drive->Las Vegas
Day 6: Vegas hangout
Day 7: Drive to Bay Area on the interior route through California. We'll probably terminate in South Bay Area somewhere, rather than San Francisco proper.

Basically, all interstate. Very long drive on day 1, long-ish drive on day 7, but most of the other driving days are shorter. Need to nail down the exact plan - probably book the hotels at Bryce, Zion, Vegas ahead of time...
Las Vegas is only about 45 minutes drive from Hoover Dam. Don’t skip seeing it by accident.
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