Damage from power surge by PG&E

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madbrain
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Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

Friday a week ago, we lost power. It was restored within about 2 hours. But there was a major power surge when power came back on.
Half the equipment and lights came back at first. Then a few seconds later, the other half.

I was in my home office. My laser printer went into a very loud reboot loop, with its LCD display resetting to blank multiple times for several minutes. My audio mixer wouldn't power back on initially. It took 20 minutes to power on ! The manufacturer tells me it's the capacitors.
My iRobot Scooba started beeping, and the service light came on.
Then, I noticed the voltage LED indicators on my Monster surge suppressor going wild, between <90V (blinking) and >140V (also blinking).
I was very alarmed and started disconnecting other things. Until I saw the voltage LED indicators on the other Monster surge suppressor next to, plugged in to the same duplex wall receptacle, it at a steady 120V.
So, it looks like the surge killed one of the surge suppressors. And damaged of the equipment attached to it - the audio mixer was on it.
The Yamaha receiver also attached to it lost all its configuration.
The printer seems to be OK now. At least one print job worked. It's multi-function and I have to check the scanner too.
Ever since, we keep finding other random problems with various things. The toaster oven won't keep the clock anymore. Even after it's reset, it deviates by many hours every day.
Same problem with the Thermador 30" double wall oven, which is over 20 years old and for which there are no longer any parts (I know this because I tried to get the control pad replaced for another problem earlier this year).
My husband found that one of his audio power amplifiers' VU meters no longer works.
We have hundreds of electronics in the house, and it may take us time to figure out all the damage.
At least one car (Volt PHEV), which was plugged in, didn't suffer any damage.
I talked to PG&E on wednesday. They told me I have two years to make a claim. And they have have 30 days to respond, at which point they will send somebody to inspect. But once I file the initial claim, I can no longer amend it. So, it seems like we need to test every single thing we have plugged in and make sure it works.

I don't know the total amount of the damage yet. PG&E say they would only pay based on used value.
My insurance company would pay replacement cost, but has a $5000 deductible. If we want to replace the oven, it would easily exceed that.

My question for posting here is, how have other Bogleheads dealt with major appliance/electronics damage from power company surges before ?
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ResearchMed
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by ResearchMed »

First, I would double check the statement that once you've put in a claim it cannot be amended. It may be true, or maybe it's not.

I'd probably ask my insurance agent about how to handle this. (But we have a very helpful agent at an insurance broker that works with several insurers, and has an entire claims department to run interference with the various insurers' claims people.

IF you file a claim through your insurance, wouldn't there be enough from PG&E to cover the $5k deductible?

It sounds like a mess.
Was there any sort of warranty with that surge protector?

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madbrain
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

ResearchMed wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:10 pm It sounds like a mess.
Yes, unfortunately.
Was there any sort of warranty with that surge protector?
No, it hasn't been manufactured in over 15 years.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

ResearchMed wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:10 pm IF you file a claim through your insurance, wouldn't there be enough from PG&E to cover the $5k deductible?
Not necessarily, since they pay actual cash value and not replacement cost. A 23 year old Thermador 30" double oven is probably worth just about $1k, and that's what PG&E would pay. Even though a new one would cost $7-9k.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by HomeStretch »

Consider adding a whole house surge suppressor in your electrical panel as an added layer of protection against future power surges.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

HomeStretch wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:00 am Consider adding a whole house surge suppressor in your electrical panel as an added layer of protection against future power surges.
Yes, I will certainly do that. But in the meantime I need to deal with the damage.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by Monsterflockster »

madbrain wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:01 pm Friday a week ago, we lost power. It was restored within about 2 hours. But there was a major power surge when power came back on.
Half the equipment and lights came back at first. Then a few seconds later, the other half.

I was in my home office. My laser printer went into a very loud reboot loop, with its LCD display resetting to blank multiple times for several minutes. My audio mixer wouldn't power back on initially. It took 20 minutes to power on ! The manufacturer tells me it's the capacitors.
My iRobot Scooba started beeping, and the service light came on.
Then, I noticed the voltage LED indicators on my Monster surge suppressor going wild, between <90V (blinking) and >140V (also blinking).
I was very alarmed and started disconnecting other things. Until I saw the voltage LED indicators on the other Monster surge suppressor next to, plugged in to the same duplex wall receptacle, it at a steady 120V.
So, it looks like the surge killed one of the surge suppressors. And damaged of the equipment attached to it - the audio mixer was on it.
The Yamaha receiver also attached to it lost all its configuration.
The printer seems to be OK now. At least one print job worked. It's multi-function and I have to check the scanner too.
Ever since, we keep finding other random problems with various things. The toaster oven won't keep the clock anymore. Even after it's reset, it deviates by many hours every day.
Same problem with the Thermador 30" double wall oven, which is over 20 years old and for which there are no longer any parts (I know this because I tried to get the control pad replaced for another problem earlier this year).
My husband found that one of his audio power amplifiers' VU meters no longer works.
We have hundreds of electronics in the house, and it may take us time to figure out all the damage.
At least one car (Volt PHEV), which was plugged in, didn't suffer any damage.
I talked to PG&E on wednesday. They told me I have two years to make a claim. And they have have 30 days to respond, at which point they will send somebody to inspect. But once I file the initial claim, I can no longer amend it. So, it seems like we need to test every single thing we have plugged in and make sure it works.

I don't know the total amount of the damage yet. PG&E say they would only pay based on used value.
My insurance company would pay replacement cost, but has a $5000 deductible. If we want to replace the oven, it would easily exceed that.

My question for posting here is, how have other Bogleheads dealt with major appliance/electronics damage from power company surges before ?
Same happened to us as our new stove, in our new construction home was fried from a brownout. We went through the hoops and filed a claim. It was rejected as it was considered an “act of god.” (Well a squirrel fried a transformer). My understanding is you will need to prove it’s their negligence and not because of something on your end.

Good luck & I hope you get a better result than we did.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by HomeStretch »

madbrain wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:23 am
HomeStretch wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:00 am Consider adding a whole house surge suppressor in your electrical panel as an added layer of protection against future power surges.
Yes, I will certainly do that. But in the meantime I need to deal with the damage.
Good luck. If your experience is like mine, the electric company will not pay much, if anything at all. If so, you will either pay out of pocket to repair/replace the items or for the insurance claim deductible/maybe higher future premiums out of pocket.

I had two occurrences of high-end electronics damage - one due to a lightening strike that traveled in through an irrigation system’s electrical wiring and the second due to a power surge from our electric company’s incoming service line after superstorm Sandy. The electric company denied our claim for the second occurrence.

Both times I filed an insurance claim as the replacement electronic equipment was > $20k on top of additional superstorm damage to outdoor structures/pool from neighbor’s uprooted oaks. I paid the $1k deductible for each claim and, after the 2nd claim, a higher homeowners policy premium for 3 years of ~$1k/year.

After that I added a whole house surge protector on top of the existing heavy duty surge protection equipment, multiple power strips with surge protection and grounded roof lightening rods.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by Voltaire2.0 »

Not an answer to your direct question, but something to be aware of.

Several years ago, before I had a whole house suppressor, I had a major surge. About eight breakers slammed open and lots of light went out after someone crashed their car into the sub-station. A couple of my powerstrip suppressors burned up, but there was no other obvious immediate damage.

However, over the succeeding 10 months appliances starting failing as their PCBs gave out. My treadmill, the vent fan in my kitchen and both garage door openers all croaked and needed new PCBs. Replacements totaled about $1,200, including labor. It could have been worse, I'm sure.

None of the affected devices were running when the surge hit. I suggest you test run (several times) everything that might has PCB before you file your claim.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by Nate79 »

What is your estimate of the total replacement cost for what you would personally spend to replace all items?
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by clip651 »

Something else to consider - your toaster can no longer tell time. Is it still working otherwise? Do you need a working clock on your toaster? Ditto for the oven. My toasters have never had clocks. My oven has a clock and timer, but it's an old oven and neither have worked in years. Oven still works fine, I just need to use something else to keep track of time to make sure I don't burn the cookies or whatever. I don't know anything about the type of oven you have, maybe the electronics have more important functions than they do on my oven. But for old appliances, if they still work except for one feature or two, consider if they still work well enough to keep using for now instead of the hassle of replacing them, and the time spent on trying to get insurance or the power company to pay you something to replace them.

This won't work for every item that was damaged. But perhaps for some of them it might shorten your list of things that need fixing, especially if it turns out that you won't be reimbursed to replace them with new appliances.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by willthrill81 »

I would only recommend that home owners insurance be used for catastrophic claims because if you make 1 or 2 claims, your insurer may drop you, and it may be difficult or much more costly to get insurance through another carrier.

If this problem was due to PG&E, then they should foot the entire bill. Your insurance shouldn't enter the picture at all.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by EnerJi »

madbrain wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:56 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:10 pm
Was there any sort of warranty with that surge protector?
No, it hasn't been manufactured in over 15 years.
What a bothersome problem you're going through; I hope they make it right.

FWIW, I read recently that surge protectors should be considered consumable products that lose their ability to perform their function over time and should be proactively replaced every so often, perhaps every 5-7 years (although I don't recall the specific replacement interval recommendation). It might have been on The Wirecutter where I saw this?

Lots of smart people here so wondering if anyone else can weigh in on this, either for or against.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

Thanks.
Voltaire2.0 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:01 pm Not an answer to your direct question, but something to be aware of.

Several years ago, before I had a whole house suppressor, I had a major surge. About eight breakers slammed open and lots of light went out after someone crashed their car into the sub-station. A couple of my powerstrip suppressors burned up, but there was no other obvious immediate damage.

However, over the succeeding 10 months appliances starting failing as their PCBs gave out. My treadmill, the vent fan in my kitchen and both garage door openers all croaked and needed new PCBs. Replacements totaled about $1,200, including labor. It could have been worse, I'm sure.

None of the affected devices were running when the surge hit. I suggest you test run (several times) everything that might has PCB before you file your claim.

We have literally hundreds of devices that have PCBs. 10 zones thermostats, 2 furnaces, 2 ACs, 15 audio amplifiers/receivers, 15 Chromecast audios, 7 computers, 25 hard drives/SSDs, 6 wired switches, 5 wireless access points, 2 printers, a digital MIDI organ, audio recording equipment, MIDI synthesizers, etc. Every single plug-in device is on a surge protector. We have dozens of surge protectors alone, almost all full of devices (every single plug in use). The appliances, which are hardwired, are not...
Since we don't use every single thing every day, it will take some time to figure out which have damage.
Many things power up, but just don't work right, as they used to. It's hugely aggravating :(
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

Nate79 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:21 pm What is your estimate of the total replacement cost for what you would personally spend to replace all items?
I don't have that number yet as I don't know the full extent of the damage. We are still discovering new problems with our appliances/electronics that didn't exist 2 weeks ago.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

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Monsterflockster wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:05 am Same happened to us as our new stove, in our new construction home was fried from a brownout. We went through the hoops and filed a claim. It was rejected as it was considered an “act of god.” (Well a squirrel fried a transformer). My understanding is you will need to prove it’s their negligence and not because of something on your end.

Good luck & I hope you get a better result than we did.
I hope I get a better result indeed. I have been in my home 11 years. We have power outages at least once a year from people driving into power poles. It happened once on Xmas, and we were were very upset. Filed a claim for the dinner we had to have at a restaurant, but it was rejected.

We have never had any issues with surges when the power was restored before. This is the first time. I don't know what happened this time. It could have been a transformer. We are at the end of the street, and there is triphase at our pole that also serves the water company immediately behind our house. I assume they have surge protectors. They also have diesel generators when the power runs out. They ran during the outage.
I saw a PG&E truck come by to our cul-de-sac during the outage, briefly.

We have also been part of the "PSPS", the Public Safety Power Outage, where PG&E shut our power on purpose due to brush fire risk. Again, no issue when the power came back up. Being without a working CPAP at night was hugely stressful, however.

It certainly seems to me that the surge happened when power was restored, not when it was lost, and that would be caused by something PG&E did, that they don't normally do when power is restored. Otherwise we would have had surges destroying our electronics/appliances a long time ago.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:17 pm I would only recommend that home owners insurance be used for catastrophic claims because if you make 1 or 2 claims, your insurer may drop you, and it may be difficult or much more costly to get insurance through another carrier.
There are already only 2 companies that will insure us due to brush fire risk, so I certainly hope that's not the case.
If this problem was due to PG&E, then they should foot the entire bill. Your insurance shouldn't enter the picture at all.
I agree. But their policy is to pay actual cash value, ie. used. Do I have to sue them to get replacement cost ?
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

clip651 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:36 pm Something else to consider - your toaster can no longer tell time. Is it still working otherwise?
It appears to be working, for the one function I have used on it. I haven't tried every program it has. It's a toaster oven, not just toaster.
Do you need a working clock on your toaster?
Not necessarily, but a bad clock might also mean timed programs don't work right either. So far, I haven't burned anything.
Ditto for the oven. My toasters have never had clocks. My oven has a clock and timer, but it's an old oven and neither have worked in years. Oven still works fine, I just need to use something else to keep track of time to make sure I don't burn the cookies or whatever. I don't know anything about the type of oven you have, maybe the electronics have more important functions than they do on my oven. But for old appliances, if they still work except for one feature or two, consider if they still work well enough to keep using for now instead of the hassle of replacing them, and the time spent on trying to get insurance or the power company to pay you something to replace them.
The oven has a touch pad and display built-in that controls everything from turning it on, light, timer, clock, and cleaning cycle. It has had issues in the past where some keys stopped working intermittently. I tried to get it replaced earlier this year. That's when I found the replacement parts are no longer available. I have used the top oven in the last week, and it appeared to work right. Have not used the bottom oven yet. We rarely used it.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

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madbrain wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:29 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:17 pm I would only recommend that home owners insurance be used for catastrophic claims because if you make 1 or 2 claims, your insurer may drop you, and it may be difficult or much more costly to get insurance through another carrier.
There are already only 2 companies that will insure us due to brush fire risk, so I certainly hope that's not the case.
Sadly, it very well could be. Just this last week, someone messaged Clark Howard to say that after one claim on their homeowner's policy, their insurer was cancelling their policy, and they were having difficulties getting a new policy with another insurer. Clark again reminded his listeners that homeowner's insurance is for catastrophic claims only for this reason.
madbrain wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:29 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:17 pm If this problem was due to PG&E, then they should foot the entire bill. Your insurance shouldn't enter the picture at all.
I agree. But their policy is to pay actual cash value, ie. used. Do I have to sue them to get replacement cost ?
Perhaps. Depending on the difference in value, you might be able to take them to small claims court.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by ResearchMed »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:55 pm Sadly, it very well could be. Just this last week, someone messaged Clark Howard to say that after one claim on their homeowner's policy, their insurer was cancelling their policy, and they were having difficulties getting a new policy with another insurer. Clark again reminded his listeners that homeowner's insurance is for catastrophic claims only for this reason.
If one decides to do this (not file for anything other than truly catastrophic losses), then it would be worthwhile to see what the highest deductible available is.
I haven't looked into this (yet).

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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by willthrill81 »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:22 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:55 pm Sadly, it very well could be. Just this last week, someone messaged Clark Howard to say that after one claim on their homeowner's policy, their insurer was cancelling their policy, and they were having difficulties getting a new policy with another insurer. Clark again reminded his listeners that homeowner's insurance is for catastrophic claims only for this reason.
If one decides to do this (not file for anything other than truly catastrophic losses), then it would be worthwhile to see what the highest deductible available is.
I haven't looked into this (yet).

RM
That's precisely what Clark Howard recommended, and it makes perfect sense. However, if the property still has a mortgage, the mortgage holder might specify a maximum allowable deductible.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:25 pm That's precisely what Clark Howard recommended, and it makes perfect sense. However, if the property still has a mortgage, the mortgage holder might specify a maximum allowable deductible.
My homeowner's policy has always had the maximum deductible the insurance company offered. I don't recall seeing anything in my mortgage documents about deductible, just requirements to have insurance. The mortgage was paid off 3 years ago. We still have a HELOC with a $0 balance. The drawdown period is coming up in a few months and will probably end up being closed. So, lender shouldn't be an issue. But I certainly wouldn't want to be without insurance. The fire risk is the main thing I worry about.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by willthrill81 »

madbrain wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:06 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:25 pm That's precisely what Clark Howard recommended, and it makes perfect sense. However, if the property still has a mortgage, the mortgage holder might specify a maximum allowable deductible.
My homeowner's policy has always had the maximum deductible the insurance company offered. I don't recall seeing anything in my mortgage documents about deductible, just requirements to have insurance. The mortgage was paid off 3 years ago. We still have a HELOC with a $0 balance. The drawdown period is coming up in a few months and will probably end up being closed. So, lender shouldn't be an issue. But I certainly wouldn't want to be without insurance. The fire risk is the main thing I worry about.
Upon reflection, it makes sense that PG&E only pays for depreciated value and not replacement. If you hit my $3k car, you only owe me $3k, not a brand new car.

I guess it's up to you as to whether it's worth it to file a claim, but since you have a $5k deductible on your policy, you would obviously only get reimbursed for damages exceeding that. From the damaged items that you've listed so far, I really doubt that it would be worthwhile.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by lazydavid »

madbrain wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:56 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:10 pm Was there any sort of warranty with that surge protector?
No, it hasn't been manufactured in over 15 years.
In most cases, that doesn't matter. "Protected equipment guarantees" on surge suppressors rarely have an expiration date, and more importantly Monster Cable is still in business. It's worth looking a little deeper.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

lazydavid wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:44 am
madbrain wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:56 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:10 pm Was there any sort of warranty with that surge protector?
No, it hasn't been manufactured in over 15 years.
In most cases, that doesn't matter. "Protected equipment guarantees" on surge suppressors rarely have an expiration date, and more importantly Monster Cable is still in business. It's worth looking a little deeper.
Thanks. I'll look into it.

Good news, the large Thermador oven seems to be working OK now - as well as it used to before the surge, at least.

The smaller Oster toaster oven was having issues with the clock. Timed programs also failed - the clock was running fast. I bought a new model at Costco. I unplugged the old one. After a day, I plugged the old one back in. It now works fine, very strangely. Clock runs normal, timed programs too.
So now I have two toaster ovens. The old one had a really annoying issue with the french doors closing on you, and causing burns. I think I'll just return the old one to Costco at this point. It was only a couple of years old, and should have lasted longer. I have to return one of them anyway, I don't need two. Easier than to deal with Costco than PG&E, I think.

I tried the same thing with my audio mixer - unplug and replug - but no dice with that one.

My husband found a problem with a $2500 stereo tube amp. One of the two VU meters stopped working shortly after the surge. And there is now hiss in the sound that wasn't there before.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by Northern Flicker »

HomeStretch wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:00 am Consider adding a whole house surge suppressor in your electrical panel as an added layer of protection against future power surges.
It will protect high draw items but not the low power electronics the OP reported as having failures. Also, if a whole house surge protector trips, you will have no power until the surge protector is replaced in the panel. We do have one-- an electrician recommended it.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by suemarkp »

Northern Flicker wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:46 am It will protect high draw items but not the low power electronics the OP reported as having failures. Also, if a whole house surge protector trips, you will have no power until the surge protector is replaced in the panel. We do have one-- an electrician recommended it.
Don't think this is true, and I've never seen one work like that unless its a huge series type of filter. Most surge suppressors (TVSS) use MOVs or similar devices across the hot wires and from hot to neutral. They just short out any voltages over some threshold. If the surge lasts too long, the TVSS burns up. But that doesn't keep the power from flowing. The green light on the TVSS is telling you these device has not burned up yet and will still clamp over voltages.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by Northern Flicker »

I was just paraphrasing what the electrician told me, which may have been incorrect. Perhaps he was thinking about something like a lightning strike that could overwhelm the whole house surge protector and cause it to fail in a failsafe manner with a disconect.

I nonetheless think that there likely are surges sufficient to damage computer or audio equipment that are lower level than what will be filtered out by the whole house surge protector.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by HomeStretch »

Northern Flicker wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:15 pm I was just paraphrasing what the electrician told me, which may have been incorrect. Perhaps he was thinking about something like a lightning strike that could overwhelm the whole house surge protector and cause it to fail in a failsafe manner with a disconect.

I nonetheless think that there likely are surges sufficient to damage computer or audio equipment that are lower level than what will be filtered out by the whole house surge protector.
Perhaps.

My (excellent) electrician and electronics guy both felt a whole house surge protector coupled with individual/Monster surge protectors for electronics was the best way to protect appliances, electronics, etc. Also suemarkp’s explanation is the same as my electrician’s.

As far as lightening strikes go, a whole house suppressor or grounded roof lightening rods (which I also have) won’t help if the strike travels into your house via an alternate route. I had a lightening strike in the yard travel up through the irrigation system’s in-ground electrical system into the system controller (blew it partially off the wall) then through the electrical cord to the outlet (turned brown) and up through the wall completely frying the home theater/sound system directly above it. $30k of damage but luckily no fire in the walls.
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

HomeStretch wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:34 pm I had a lightening strike in the yard travel up through the irrigation system’s in-ground electrical system into the system controller (blew it partially off the wall) then through the electrical cord to the outlet (turned brown) and up through the wall completely frying the home theater/sound system directly above it. $30k of damage but luckily no fire in the walls.
Did your home insurance cover any of the $30k damage ? Or did you turn to Monster and/or your other surge suppressor manufacturers ?
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by HomeStretch »

madbrain wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:08 pm
HomeStretch wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:34 pm I had a lightening strike in the yard travel up through the irrigation system’s in-ground electrical system into the system controller (blew it partially off the wall) then through the electrical cord to the outlet (turned brown) and up through the wall completely frying the home theater/sound system directly above it. $30k of damage but luckily no fire in the walls.
Did your home insurance cover any of the $30k damage ? Or did you turn to Monster and/or your other surge suppressor manufacturers ?
I filed an insurance claim as the $30k included items not covered by surge suppressors (like the irrigation system).
Northern Flicker
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by Northern Flicker »

HomeStretch wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:34 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:15 pm I nonetheless think that there likely are surges sufficient to damage computer or audio equipment that are lower level than what will be filtered out by the whole house surge protector.
Perhaps.

My (excellent) electrician and electronics guy both felt a whole house surge protector coupled with individual/Monster surge protectors for electronics was the best way to protect appliances, electronics, etc. Also suemarkp’s explanation is the same as my electrician’s.
My understanding is that you need the separate individual surge protectors for smaller electronics because the whole house protector will not block lower level surges that are sufficient to take out a computer or audio device, as I mentioned above.
suemarkp
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by suemarkp »

Yes and no. The system operating voltage (240/120) is the same whether you put a TVSS at the panel or at point of use. Some of the ones for panel use have a higher clamping voltage than point of use ones, but not all do. The panel ones generally have more capacity before they die because they are generally larger (more footprint available than in a small surge strip).

The reason to use a point of use TVSS are two main things which have a common thread - wire has resistance so voltages at one end may not be the same as at the other:
  • Something else on the power strip or the same circuit could be causing surges. Those won't be clamped until they reach the panel so things on that circuit are more at risk.
  • Induced surges on the house wiring (e.g. nearby lightning strike) can have a large voltage gradient. Again, one end will be clamped at the panel, but the other end could still have high voltages.
Putting surge protection right at point of use covers these situations, and a panel one takes load off the point of use ones for surges that come from other circuits or from the utility wires.
Last edited by suemarkp on Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
Point
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by Point »

You may want to install a whole house surge protector.
Topic Author
madbrain
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

Point wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:57 pm You may want to install a whole house surge protector.
Yes. This has been mentioned. And I will.

On another subject, the toaster oven dropped $50 at Costco today in their new ad. It's not even been 30 days since my purchase. I hope they can price match.
dukeblue219
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by dukeblue219 »

madbrain wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:07 pm
Point wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:57 pm You may want to install a whole house surge protector.
Yes. This has been mentioned. And I will.

On another subject, the toaster oven dropped $50 at Costco today in their new ad. It's not even been 30 days since my purchase. I hope they can price match.
Yes, Costco has an online form to do this:
https://customerservice.costco.com/app/ ... com-orders

I used it successfully in the spring to get $550 back on a fridge I bought from Costco when it went on sale.
Topic Author
madbrain
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Re: Damage from power surge by PG&E

Post by madbrain »

dukeblue219 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:16 pm
madbrain wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:07 pm
Point wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:57 pm You may want to install a whole house surge protector.
Yes. This has been mentioned. And I will.

On another subject, the toaster oven dropped $50 at Costco today in their new ad. It's not even been 30 days since my purchase. I hope they can price match.
Yes, Costco has an online form to do this:
https://customerservice.costco.com/app/ ... com-orders

I used it successfully in the spring to get $550 back on a fridge I bought from Costco when it went on sale.
Thanks. The form is for online purchases only. It says to go to the warehouse membership counter. I just did. They told me to go to merchandise pickup. I got the refund immediately, on the card of my choice. I used my debit card. So, I got to keep rewards on the $50.
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