Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

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Toons
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Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by Toons »

For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
neilpilot
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by neilpilot »

Purchased EV almost 5 months ago. Answers:

Would you return to gas powered vehicles? - her vehicle is gas, and I wouldn't have bought an EV if it was my only auto since I'm not sure I want to manage charging for the occasional road trip.

How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle? I took a short (90 mile each way) trip, starting at 77% charge, 3 days after purchase. To a rural area with no real charger access. I learned a lot, in particular that EV range is severely impacted by going fast (75-80 mph). I made it back home with only about 20 miles range left. Will know better in future.

Did you install charging adaptor at home? I average about 150 miles/week, and charge once each week from ~30% to 80%. I could have survived on a L1 charger, especially since my EV came with 3 years of free L3 charging at EA. But I installed a L2 charger by adding a branch onto an existing 30amp dryer circuit. The DIY cost was minimal; under $100 not including the ~$300 EVSE.
squirm
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by squirm »

Yes install a charger at home.
I don't have any range anxiety, EA chargers are popping up everywhere. However it needs to mature some more.
If your iffy about it, buy a plug in hybrid.

No I won't go back. Plugging in at home takes five seconds. However EV fanboys want you to believe they bought an EV because "electricity is as totally clean fuel, it takes twenty minutes to fill up with gas, your forced to smell gas and everybody spills gas all over themselves each time they fill up".

Oh, I do about 150 miles a day.
BBBob
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by BBBob »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
(1) Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
(2) How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
(3) Did you install charging adaptor at home?
(1) Never;

(2) Anxiety dissipated very quickly (I initially felt like I was stepping off a cliff; that's normal. But it was a nothing. I never ran out of range and don;t know anyone who has. My wife and I have each been driving only electrics since 2002 (currently on our third one);

(3) Yes

We have always leased and then purchased at the end; a bit more expensive in the long run but we wanted to see what improvements the technology had at the end of the three year leases. Next time, we will just purchase

You might want to check out https://pluginamerica.org which provdes a matrix of all available EVs in your area, and you can click on each for details about them. [link fixed by admin LadyGeek]
delamer
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by delamer »

BBBob wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:28 am
Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
(1) Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
(2) How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
(3) Did you install charging adaptor at home?
(1) Never;

(2) Anxiety dissipated very quickly (I initially felt like I was stepping off a cliff; that's normal. But it was a nothing. I never ran out of range and don;t know anyone who has. My wife and I have each been driving only electrics since 2002 (currently on our third one);

(3) Yes

We have always leased and then purchased at the end; a bit more expensive in the long run but we wanted to see what improvements the technology had at the end of the three year leases. Next time, we will just purchase

You might want to check out https://pluginamerica.org which provdes a matrix of all available EVs in your area, and you can click on each for details about them. [link fixed by admin LadyGeek]
Just a FYI; I got a not secure message when I clicked on the above link. [It's fixed --admin LadyGeek]
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
harrychan
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by harrychan »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
Our second car is gas powered. I will definitely have an EV moving forward.
Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
I bought our Standard Range Model Y about 6 months ago. Since then, we've taken it to 3 road trips - Mammoth Lakes (280 miles), Zion (600 miles), and San Diego (120 miles). At no instance was I in any danger of running out of charge. It helps that I am in California where there are ample Tesla Superchargers and non Tesla chargers everywhere. For my daily travel, I drive no more than 50 miles which is about 20% of my battery. I charge nightly.
Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Yes. It was a good excuse to upgrade my electrical panel from 100 to 200A. I'll be able to claim tax credit for the panel and labor. I also got a rebate for my L2 Tesla wall charger. I was able to charge with a standard 120v plug but it took a good 7-8 hours to charge to the desired %. With the L2 charger, it takes me about 2 hours.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
alexander29
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by alexander29 »

1. Prefer my Tesla Y but like having a gas hybrid as a second car. Just in case.

2. I usually only have to home charge once every week or two, and this saves time over a gas station. But distant trips, even with Tesla superchargers, take slightly longer to “fuel” so total time sorta balances out. I suggest the more range, the better (like computer RAM) because the maximum theoretical range can drop up to a third due to cold, hills, etc. A 300 mile range helps eliminate anxiety because it can become 200 on a bad winter day.

3. An EV owner should ideally install a home charging plug that is 220; probably a 50 or 60 amp circuit for easy and safe charging at 30 amps plus. Ask an electrician the cost for your home in advance of purchasing an EV. Anywhere from $100 to $1,500 depending on the home.
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Toons
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by Toons »

Thanks👍
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
earlywynnfan
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by earlywynnfan »

1) I would prefer one EV and one gas/hybrid between my wife and I, esp for longer trips.
2) I'm fine with the range anxiety, my wife freaks if it gets below 50% charge
3) Yes, made life a lot easier

And the most important question: If I could go back in time, would I buy it again? Absolutely!
tibbitts
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by tibbitts »

I don't have an EV and I get range anxiety when I'm in a somewhat unfamiliar and remote area and the fuel drops below about half full. So I refuel at the next opportunity. I'm happiest with the needle on F. Sadly, thanks to a gage repair mistake I made it never is... about an eight of an inch below is the best I can get, even when the filler pipe is full.
fabdog
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by fabdog »

We still have one ICE vehicle we use for longer trips. There are many apps out there (a better route planner, etc) that will show you where to charge on a longer (non Tesla) trip, but I'm still not sold that the infrastructure works (ie you can read reviews on the charging stations it recommends, too many have comments that say "didn't work"). Some of that may be folks not having the right app/network setup to charge at that specific station. Also most of the charging in populated areas/along major highways. Depending on where you are headed that may be great or awful

Range anxiety I manage. I will second the info from above that at highway speed (75mph) the range reduces...

Installed an L2 charger in the garage... it's been great.

We won't go full electric till there is better infrastructure to support long distance travel

Mike
WhyNotUs
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by WhyNotUs »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Have had two- 2013 Leaf (purchase) and 2020 (lease current)
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
We have an RV that is gas but I believe that I have purchased my last ICE.
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Where we live there are lots of chargers so this is not much of an issue. See plugshare.com for your area
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Yes, my electric utility provided me with a Chargepoint Flex and I paid for installation
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
BBBob
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by BBBob »

BBBob wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:28 am
You might want to check out https://pluginamerica.com which provdes a matrix of all available EVs in your area, and you can click on each for details about them.
Just a FYI; I got a not secure message when I clicked on the above link.
[/quote]

Sorry...I screwed up the link. It is https://pluginamerica.org
clutchied
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by clutchied »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
Great questions!

I've driven EVs for about 3 years. I had a BMW i3 which was great but I realized the 50 miles in the winter was stressing me out so I bought a Tesla Model 3. Phenomenal car.

I guess this might be unique but I had an extra gas "fun car" sitting around during the pandemic and i sold my model 3 back to one of those online places for premium dollars. I plan to buy another EV soon, I didn't like returning to a gas car. I got so used to having a "full tank" with the EV that I've almost run out of fuel a couple of times now.

Yes, charger @ home 32amp minimum and 50amp is a good rate at this point. It's a give and take between battery health and speed you may or may not need in overnight charging.

Having an EV was lifechanging for me and I know that sounds hyperbolic but it really does make a difference in how you operate and the peace it brings. We started taking trips in the Tesla because the family preferred it to our van... wild huh?

If I was buying today it would be a model Y but I'm holding out for the cybertruck or the F150.
crefwatch
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by crefwatch »

Chevy Bolt 2021. Wife has a Toyota hybrid with a 12-gallon gas tank.

Range Anxiety is one thing (I only drive under 50 miles most days, and have a Level 2 charger in my garage. Chevy is currently recommending that I park outside (but remember, EVs in general, including Bolts, and Teslas, all have fires at a lower per million miles than conventional vehicles!)

But beyond Range Anxiety, is the Road Trip issue. We went to Maine last week with the Bolt. Our hosts (who really wanted to see and drive the Bolt) put in an extra dryer outlet in their garage, because there is no "Fast Charging" within 25 miles of their town. And I bought a portable charger, although I could have unscrewed my home one from the garage wall.

But we spent the night in a NH B&B on the way up, specifically because they had EV charging. On the way home, we stopped at two Walmarts, because they typically have 8 stations of DC Fast Charging. The first stop (New Hampshire) was 45 minutes to 80% charge, and the second (Middletown, CT) was 65 minutes to 80% charge. (It is very expensive to build a car battery that can be fast-charged to 100%, but that's beyond the scope of your question.) We paid $0.43 per KwH for that, while we pay $0.15 per KwH at home. The higher number is comparable to gasoline costs for the trip.

I don't mean to insert politics, but [political comment removed by Moderator Misenplace.]
delamer
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by delamer »

delamer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:33 am
BBBob wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:37 am
BBBob wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:28 am
You might want to check out https://pluginamerica.org which provdes a matrix of all available EVs in your area, and you can click on each for details about them. [link fixed by admin LadyGeek]
Just a FYI; I got a not secure message when I clicked on the above link. [It's fixed --admin LadyGeek]
Sorry...I screwed up the link. It is https://pluginamerica.org
That one works. Thanks!
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
delamer
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by delamer »

alexander29 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:56 am 1. Prefer my Tesla Y but like having a gas hybrid as a second car. Just in case.

2. I usually only have to home charge once every week or two, and this saves time over a gas station. But distant trips, even with Tesla superchargers, take slightly longer to “fuel” so total time sorta balances out. I suggest the more range, the better (like computer RAM) because the maximum theoretical range can drop up to a third due to cold, hills, etc. A 300 mile range helps eliminate anxiety because it can become 200 on a bad winter day.

3. An EV owner should ideally install a home charging plug that is 220; probably a 50 or 60 amp circuit for easy and safe charging at 30 amps plus. Ask an electrician the cost for your home in advance of purchasing an EV. Anywhere from $100 to $1,500 depending on the home.
I’m not convinced of the utility of a hybrid relative to a ICE-only vehicle, if the main purpose of the hybrid is to have it for long trips so you don’t have the hassle of charging your EV.

Presumably, the eiectric-only vehicle would be used for most local trips anyway, so why have a hybrid which is really only environmentally friendly locally?

But I haven’t given it a lot of thought. Maybe with 2 drivers who do a lot of local driving and can’t trade off with the EV?
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
mrb09
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by mrb09 »

> For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Have a 2018 Leaf EV and 2014 Mazda 3 ICE (Internal Combustion Engine).

> Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
At some point, we will go to one car. Waiting to see if there are more tier 3 charging stations before we go full EV. We're in Oregon and there is a plan to put in more tier 3 stations for the "west coast electric highway". Until then, it is still better to have a Tesla, more stations available.

> How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
The Leaf is our around town car, range is never an issue. If we do take it out of town and we need a a charge, I found the "plugshare" app to be pretty good, that's crowdsource'ed to give the current state of charging stations.

> Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Yes. That's the secret sauce. I like the environmental impact, but the ease of use of home charging is just awesome.
02nz
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by 02nz »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
I wouldn't even consider it. The lower cost of operation, smoothness, quietness, less maintenance, instant acceleration, and environmental benefits are all too big to overlook.
Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Range anxiety is mostly a thing among people who don't actually own or lease EVs. That ought to tell you something. If you take long road trips frequently, a Tesla is the best option. But I don't, and there are rental cars and other modes of transport for those times when I do.
Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am Did you install charging adaptor at home?
I currently live in an apartment building, it has L2 (240V) charging. I also use DC fast charging and the free charging at some locations (e.g., Volta).
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by TomatoTomahto »

For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
2016 Tesla Model X

Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
I won’t and I think my wife is on her last ICE.

How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
In our first month of owning the car, we didn’t know what we were doing and felt uncomfortable once limping back to a charger. Never a problem since.

Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Installed one at my old house and a more powerful one at my new house. 100A line, so can charge at up to 72A if needed, but mostly I charge overnight so 10-20A is sufficient.

I have loads of solar panels, so I know that the power to charge my car is from a clean source.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
02nz
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by 02nz »

crefwatch wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:28 pm It is very expensive to build a car battery that can be fast-charged to 100%, but that's beyond the scope of your question.
I don't think it's a matter of cost, but of just the chemistry/physics. All lithium-ion batteries I know of have a "taper" at the end - your phone doesn't charge at the fastest speed from about 80 to 100%, either.
Claire dog
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by Claire dog »

If I could comment on my experience as a plug-in hybrid owner: I purchased a Chevy Volt in 2014 and love it. Of course this is a plug-in hybrid with an electric range of 30-40 miles, but it fits my needs perfectly. My commute of 10 miles one way is entirely electric. Any errands are entirely electric. But, we have the freedom to take long road trips on the gas engine without any concerns of charging. We have taken over 10 cross country road trips in the Volt.

My brother has a Tesla and he loves it, but he clearly gets agitated about charging it when taking road trips. He often has to wait to get access to a charging station on busy interstate charging waypoints. The charging infrastructure will hopefully be increased soon, but it still takes much more time to charge an EV than it does to fill up a tank of gas.

So, I would say it depends on how you plan to use the car. If you plan to mainly use it as your everyday commuter and maybe an occasional road trip, consider an EV. If you plan to take longer road trips often (>300 miles), consider a plug-in hybrid that has enough electric range for your daily commute. For me, my Volt is the best of both worlds. I was disappointed that Chevy abandoned the Volt and never developed a plug-in hybrid SUV. The plug-in hybrid is the perfect transitional vehicle for people who are hesitant to commit to 100% electric.
mervinj7
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by mervinj7 »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
1. Currently own a 2020 Leaf and a 2018 Honda CRV. Love both cars but any new cars in the future would be all electric.
2. No range anxiety with regular commuting and errands around town but for longer road trips, especially out of CA, we take the Honda.
3. Installed a 220V L2 Charger in the carport. Would not even consider an electric car if I didn't have home charging available.

For my next electric car, I would look for something with extended range (>250 miles) and a compact SUV body shape. Something like the ID.4 from VW or Tesla Model X. With that, I would be comfortable for most road trips from my house in the Bay Area. That said, 95% of my current driving is easily covered by my Leaf.
jbh
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by jbh »

+1 to Claire dog's comment. I've had a Gen 2 Volt for 5 years (50-60mi range) and I'd never go back to full gas. It obviously depends on your particular driving habits, but since my daily drive (~20mi) is inside that range I'm at about 93% electric for the life of the car. If you want a full electric absolutely go for it, but if you're concerned about range the PHEVs can be a great middle ground.

I never did install a charging adapter: the standard wall plug is easily enough to restore what I use in a normal day. Mind you, I wouldn't mind having faster charging, but I don't *need* it, and it looked like it would be an expensive addition to run the line. Maybe in our next home.

Edit for clarity: our PHEVs came with a charger that can be plugged into a standard US 120V outlet. That's been sufficient for us. I was referring to having a 220V outlet plus a dedicated charging station installed to provide faster charging.
Last edited by jbh on Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Will do good
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by Will do good »

We have Tesla MY

1. Maybe if you need to drive long trips. current EV are best for local driving

2. We are better about RA since we did few long trips. Tesla does have lots of charging stations in most area

3. Yes
Mathematicus
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by Mathematicus »

If you’re curious about the cost (both in $ and CO2 emissions) of various vehicles, I highly recommend the Carbon Counter website. It has data for most 2021 models, and you can select your state to get localized information!
vg55
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by vg55 »

Would you return to gas powered vehicles? I have a plug in hybrid (volt) and an ICE truck -- so, havent yet gone full EV.
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle? see answer to q 1
Did you install charging adaptor at home? yes, a level 2 charger -- works great.

We use the volt for around town and rarely ever have to buy gas (e.g. one tank every 3 months). with solar on the roof, our payback / savings is about $200 / month (for all electric usage including the car).
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zhiwiller
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by zhiwiller »

Went electric in 2017 and won't go back. Wife has a dead dinosaur powered car if we need it for long trips, but have never needed to. We have a L2 charger at home. That's a no brainer.
Big Dog
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by Big Dog »

No, would not go back.

Purchased a Tesla with LR battery with ~300 miles of published range. (Means it gets less in real world.) Tesla superchargers everywhere in CA, or at least the routes I take.

Yes, installed a charger at home. btw: would not purchase an EV if I could not charge at home.
Fat Tails
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by Fat Tails »

Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
No, will always have an EV, although we currently have 2 gasoline-powered vehicles.

How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Never had range anxiety. Our EV has a 240 mile range.

Did you install charging adaptor at home?
I bought an after-market L2 (240 vac) charger that just plugs into my existing 240 vac outlet in my garage. By the way, I never realized how much of a drag it is to stop for gas until I got an EV. I think having a L2 charger at home is a must.

The other benefit is literally no vehicle maintenance except tire rotation every 7500 mi, and inspect brakes at 100,000 miles.

Cheers.
“Doing well with money has little to do with how smart you are and a lot to do with how you behave.” - Morgan Housel
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TX_TURTLE
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by TX_TURTLE »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
1. I would not return to gas. Love my Tesla M3. Plan to replace it with another EV when the time comes.
2. When doing a longer trip I figure out where superchargers are located ahead of time. There are apps and web sites for that.
3. I did install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage (similar to what an electric drier uses). Truly, a standard 110 volts outlet will give you 4/4.5 miles of range an hour. Therefore, if you have a short commute, you don't need to spend money on this. You can just occasionally use a supercharger near home (much cheaper). Regardless, this year there is a federal tax credit for installing your own charging station.
fasteddie911
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by fasteddie911 »

We have a 2020 leaf. Probably next car will be EV, but we'll see what's out there. Weekend fun car will always be manual ICE. No range anxiety because we don't drive far. No adapter, just use included 120v plug overnight every few days.
crefwatch
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by crefwatch »

02nz wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:23 pm
crefwatch wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:28 pm It is very expensive to build a car battery that can be fast-charged to 100%, but that's beyond the scope of your question.
I don't think it's a matter of cost, but of just the chemistry/physics. All lithium-ion batteries I know of have a "taper" at the end - your phone doesn't charge at the fastest speed from about 80 to 100%, either.
Thanks for your comment. Perhaps I should have added that more expensive Tesla’s can charge at much faster rates that Chevy Bolt. If you enter your charging stop into Tesla’s navigation, those higher-end Tesla’s start cooling the battery before you get there, to speed up charging.

Note that Leafs have only convection cooling of their batteries. This reduces retail cost but is assumed to shorten battery life. When Priuses first came out, early battery (forced air cooling) failure was as wide a fear as is Range Anxiety today for EVs. However, the fear turned out to be unfounded, and there is a robust trade in junkyard Prius batteries for the uncommon failures.
02nz
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Re: Electric Auto Question

Post by 02nz »

crefwatch wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:31 am
02nz wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:23 pm
crefwatch wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:28 pm It is very expensive to build a car battery that can be fast-charged to 100%, but that's beyond the scope of your question.
I don't think it's a matter of cost, but of just the chemistry/physics. All lithium-ion batteries I know of have a "taper" at the end - your phone doesn't charge at the fastest speed from about 80 to 100%, either.
Thanks for your comment. Perhaps I should have added that more expensive Tesla’s can charge at much faster rates that Chevy Bolt. If you enter your charging stop into Tesla’s navigation, those higher-end Tesla’s start cooling the battery before you get there, to speed up charging.

Note that Leafs have only convection cooling of their batteries. This reduces retail cost but is assumed to shorten battery life. When Priuses first came out, early battery (forced air cooling) failure was as wide a fear as is Range Anxiety today for EVs. However, the fear turned out to be unfounded, and there is a robust trade in junkyard Prius batteries for the uncommon failures.
Yes, generally the more expensive EVs support faster charging. Part of that is that those more expensive EVs have larger-capacity batteries, which can generally be charged faster (measured by kilowatts). But my point was that regardless of cost or capacity, no EV can maintain the highest DC fast charging speeds past about 60 to 80%; the last 20 to 40% is always slower. Teslas have higher-speed charging than most other EVs, but their "taper" starts even earlier, at around 50%.
mpnret
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by mpnret »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
No
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Having a Tesla, the supercharger network solves this
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
No. I use the cable that came with the car and plug into a standard 120v 20a outlet in my garage. As long as it's a 20a outlet you can get 8 miles of range per hour. I can do a 100 mile commute and still come home with 3/4 of a tank. Overnight charge gets me back to full.
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
eric321
Posts: 199
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by eric321 »

Bought a 2015 Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid in 2017 and a new gas powered SUV in 2018. The new Jeep costed $2,500 more than the 3 year old used volt.

Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
Yes. Even with significant incentives - it was hard for a new EV to compete on price/economics on a new gas powered car. The economics are comparable if you equate a Tesla as a luxury brand and cross shop a Tesla Model Y with a BMW X3. It doesn't work to cross shop a Model Y with a Jeep.

Things as a boglehead to consider:
Fuel cost: what is your per KW cost versus Gas. For me it was a wash, with a plug in hybrid that i could use either power source, electricity was generally the same price to operate per mile as gas. Environmentally - don't ignore that electricity production has impacts. Whether it's a coal fired electric plant delivering your fuel, or a coal fired plant in china making a solar panel.
Winter Premium: If you live in a cold weather environment. Heating up a gas powered car is easy as burning gas generates heat and you direct that heat into the cabin. Heating up a car using electricity is inefficient. This is why most houses are not electric heated but gas/oil heated. Factor this into your cost and your range
Wear and Tear Premium: My Chevy Volt wiper blades are more expensive than my Jeep's due to an aerodynamic design to maximize range. My Chevy Volt tires are more expensive due to the weight of the car (batteries are heavy) and designed to be aerodynamic


How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?

The Volt has a gas option. Range goes down significantly during the winter. Both heating use of range and the fact that batteries hold less of a charge in the cold. Going skiing is always a challenge due to uncertainty of the availability of the chargers at the ski resorts. Many times, someone else was charging and we couldn't charge. Not a problem with a gas option, big problem without.

Did you install charging adaptor at home?
No - just level 1 charging. With a battery EV, i would. Factor in $1,000 for the charger, the charger cost + labor.
IMO
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by IMO »

eric321 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:44 pm Bought a 2015 Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid in 2017 and a new gas powered SUV in 2018. The new Jeep costed $2,500 more than the 3 year old used volt.

Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
Yes. Even with significant incentives - it was hard for a new EV to compete on price/economics on a new gas powered car. The economics are comparable if you equate a Tesla as a luxury brand and cross shop a Tesla Model Y with a BMW X3. It doesn't work to cross shop a Model Y with a Jeep.

Things as a boglehead to consider:
Fuel cost: what is your per KW cost versus Gas. For me it was a wash, with a plug in hybrid that i could use either power source, electricity was generally the same price to operate per mile as gas. Environmentally - don't ignore that electricity production has impacts. Whether it's a coal fired electric plant delivering your fuel, or a coal fired plant in china making a solar panel.
Winter Premium: If you live in a cold weather environment. Heating up a gas powered car is easy as burning gas generates heat and you direct that heat into the cabin. Heating up a car using electricity is inefficient. This is why most houses are not electric heated but gas/oil heated. Factor this into your cost and your range
Wear and Tear Premium: My Chevy Volt wiper blades are more expensive than my Jeep's due to an aerodynamic design to maximize range. My Chevy Volt tires are more expensive due to the weight of the car (batteries are heavy) and designed to be aerodynamic


How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?

The Volt has a gas option. Range goes down significantly during the winter. Both heating use of range and the fact that batteries hold less of a charge in the cold. Going skiing is always a challenge due to uncertainty of the availability of the chargers at the ski resorts. Many times, someone else was charging and we couldn't charge. Not a problem with a gas option, big problem without.

Did you install charging adaptor at home?
No - just level 1 charging. With a battery EV, i would. Factor in $1,000 for the charger, the charger cost + labor.
Appreciate this thread as we are considering an EV for next vehicle.

Your post is the only one that addressing a couple of my questions:

a) What is the formula to determine gas vs. electric costs?
I don't plan on purchasing a solar system, but instead just want to know how much I would expect to pay for juice vs. gas? Is there a good site that helps one determine the fuel operating costs of gas vs. electric? Putting any pollution issues aside, I just want to know what how much I should expect to save on gas so that I can factor that into a potentially higher capital expense for the actual vehicle. I want the option that saves me the most money, and want to put any feel good things aside.

b) How much does running the heat change the numbers typically?
I hate being cold and I always pump the heat on high in an ICE. Will this dramatically make driving cost per mile more expensive?

c) What about things like ski racks/bike racks/boxes on an EV?
These are the practical day to day things that are used. How much does that change the driving cost per mile?

d) Towing?
There are no electric trucks right now, so I don't know where to get a good answer. How much less is the range with towing things like a boat? Hasn't anyone every used a Tesla to tow a smaller trailer and/or jet skis? Anyone have websites on this information? Are the motors damaged by towing?

Anyway, appreciate any feedback/discussion. Always seems EV posts/discussions don't go well if one has honest questions or any honest criticism to ask about the technology. Seems to be a trend in today's society.
squirm
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by squirm »

Op,
If your seriously considering an electric car but you're concerned about road trip charging your two options are either get a Tesla or a Plugin hybrid. The issue with plug in hybrids is that most of them only give you a pathetic twenty or so miles of ev. With a Tesla you'll find working chargers all over, you won't have range anxiety and Teslas have very good trip planners.

If your ok doing a scavenger hunt for a working charger and don't mind hanging out in Wally World parking lots, get a non Tesla EV.

Just be careful reading and watching non Tesla "reviews" (most of them are just YouTube product influencers) because some EV fanatics/lunatics get some weird high when they find a charger that actually works with decent speed. Also consider their road trip reviews... Most of them are alone (no family with kids in the car) and usually aren't in some hurry.

Rent a Tesla for a week, you'll get a good feel if it's right for you or not.
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dual
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Re: events that require unfreezing credit

Post by dual »

so what happens if you run out of charge away from a charging station?

Will AAA charge the car for you from their service truck?

If you have to get it towed, will the tow driver wait until there's an open slot at the charging station and then help you maneuver the car into the slot?
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by TomatoTomahto »

IMO wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:22 pm b) How much does running the heat change the numbers typically?
I hate being cold and I always pump the heat on high in an ICE. Will this dramatically make driving cost per mile more expensive?
Tesla is more in line with my preferences, in that I don’t mind cold but hate heat. EVs typically cool better than ICE, but heat less well than ICE.

In winter (we live in Massachusetts) I usually turn the heat to some reasonable temp and then use the heated seats and steering wheel. I sometimes use the heated steering wheel in the summer with AC on because it feels so good on my arthritis.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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5th_Dimension
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Re: events that require unfreezing credit

Post by 5th_Dimension »

dual wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:46 pm so what happens if you run out of charge away from a charging station?

Will AAA charge the car for you from their service truck?

If you have to get it towed, will the tow driver wait until there's an open slot at the charging station and then help you maneuver the car into the slot?
I will only speak to Teslas because that is what we have. Teslas come with a charge cable for a 120v outlet. If you ran out of charge the tow truck would only have to tow you as far as a working standard outlet that you could use. You then could put in between 3-5 miles an hour until you reached just enough charge to get to the next level 2 charger or level 3 Supercharger.
Pick up a penny and soon you'll have many.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: events that require unfreezing credit

Post by TomatoTomahto »

dual wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:46 pm so what happens if you run out of charge away from a charging station?

Will AAA charge the car for you from their service truck?

If you have to get it towed, will the tow driver wait until there's an open slot at the charging station and then help you maneuver the car into the slot?
Call AAA and ask. I know many EV owners, but don’t know anyone who has run out of charge. For that matter, I don’t know anyone who has run out of gasoline except on TV.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
eric321
Posts: 199
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by eric321 »

IMO wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:22 pm
eric321 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:44 pm Bought a 2015 Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid in 2017 and a new gas powered SUV in 2018. The new Jeep costed $2,500 more than the 3 year old used volt.

Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
Yes. Even with significant incentives - it was hard for a new EV to compete on price/economics on a new gas powered car. The economics are comparable if you equate a Tesla as a luxury brand and cross shop a Tesla Model Y with a BMW X3. It doesn't work to cross shop a Model Y with a Jeep.

Things as a boglehead to consider:
Fuel cost: what is your per KW cost versus Gas. For me it was a wash, with a plug in hybrid that i could use either power source, electricity was generally the same price to operate per mile as gas. Environmentally - don't ignore that electricity production has impacts. Whether it's a coal fired electric plant delivering your fuel, or a coal fired plant in china making a solar panel.
Winter Premium: If you live in a cold weather environment. Heating up a gas powered car is easy as burning gas generates heat and you direct that heat into the cabin. Heating up a car using electricity is inefficient. This is why most houses are not electric heated but gas/oil heated. Factor this into your cost and your range
Wear and Tear Premium: My Chevy Volt wiper blades are more expensive than my Jeep's due to an aerodynamic design to maximize range. My Chevy Volt tires are more expensive due to the weight of the car (batteries are heavy) and designed to be aerodynamic


How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?

The Volt has a gas option. Range goes down significantly during the winter. Both heating use of range and the fact that batteries hold less of a charge in the cold. Going skiing is always a challenge due to uncertainty of the availability of the chargers at the ski resorts. Many times, someone else was charging and we couldn't charge. Not a problem with a gas option, big problem without.

Did you install charging adaptor at home?
No - just level 1 charging. With a battery EV, i would. Factor in $1,000 for the charger, the charger cost + labor.
Appreciate this thread as we are considering an EV for next vehicle.

Your post is the only one that addressing a couple of my questions:

a) What is the formula to determine gas vs. electric costs?
I don't plan on purchasing a solar system, but instead just want to know how much I would expect to pay for juice vs. gas? Is there a good site that helps one determine the fuel operating costs of gas vs. electric? Putting any pollution issues aside, I just want to know what how much I should expect to save on gas so that I can factor that into a potentially higher capital expense for the actual vehicle. I want the option that saves me the most money, and want to put any feel good things aside.

b) How much does running the heat change the numbers typically?
I hate being cold and I always pump the heat on high in an ICE. Will this dramatically make driving cost per mile more expensive?

c) What about things like ski racks/bike racks/boxes on an EV?
These are the practical day to day things that are used. How much does that change the driving cost per mile?

d) Towing?
There are no electric trucks right now, so I don't know where to get a good answer. How much less is the range with towing things like a boat? Hasn't anyone every used a Tesla to tow a smaller trailer and/or jet skis? Anyone have websites on this information? Are the motors damaged by towing?

Anyway, appreciate any feedback/discussion. Always seems EV posts/discussions don't go well if one has honest questions or any honest criticism to ask about the technology. Seems to be a trend in today's society.
Gas and Electricity costs depends on where you are. Electricity you may get special metering, or time of day specials. Using rough numbers based on where I am, I pay $3/gallon of gas and $0.20/kwH for electricity.

If i take a Ford Mustang Mach-e for example, the EPA says it gets 90 MPGe combined city/highway. meaning it can go 90 miles on gallon equivalent of electricity. A gallon of gas is 33.7 KwH of energy, so it can go 90 miles on 33.7KwH. To go 90 miles, you need 33.7KwH x 0.20 $/KwH = $6.74 cents for 90 miles. This is roughly 7.5 cents per mile of fuel.

Comparing that to a Ford Escape (non-hybrid) - that gets 30 mpg combined city/highway. So to travel 30 miles, i spend 1 gallon of gas or $3. This is roughly 10 cents per mile of fuel.

So at these prices, $3/gallon of gas, and $0.20/KwH for electricity, electricity is 25% cheaper. You exact costs will vary. And gas prices will move. It was at $2/gallon when i bought my Jeep. However, this doesn't factor in heating costs, as well as any loss in power from the power meter, into your battery to your motors.

In general - hybrids and electric cars do better in city driving as they get to regenerate energy while breaking. At highway speeds, a gas engine is pretty efficient.

Heating up a cold car - it's a one time cost vs. a per mile cost. Less of an issue if you drive further and longer, more of a cost if you are driving shorter. You'll need to remember to precondition your car, warm it up in advance as electric heating is slow.

Roof racks and anything you're carrying on the roof is going to hurt your efficiency. this is why many cars are sold without roof racks or cross rails. This applies to both gas and electric vehicles, but more prominent in electric vehicles due to range anxiety.

Towing is not recommended in most EVs.

In your case, looking for the best bang for the buck, if you do a lot of city driving, get a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. this depends on manufacturer incentives - and whether the federal incentives apply to them. For example, a toyota rav 4 plug in hybrid is generally the same price as a regular hybrid because the federal incentives covers the cost difference. The regenerative power in breaking is the real efficiency. Run gas when it's better (cold start), and charge up the battery as you brake. Plug in when electricity is cheap or gas is expensive.
Afty
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by Afty »

I have a Tesla Model 3, purchased in early 2019.

Would you return to gas powered vehicles?

No, in fact when we replace other our other (ICE) car, we’ll replace it with an EV.

How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?

I plan my route and charging stops using A Better Route Planner. I time charging stops with meals and bathroom breaks. I also try to stay at hotels with chargers so I can charge overnight and avoid an extra stop.

I don’t really feel anxious about it. I live in CA where Superchargers are plentiful.

Did you install charging adaptor at home?

Yup, I installed a 240V outlet (NEMA 14-50) and use the charger that came with the car.
mpnret
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by mpnret »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:08 pm
IMO wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:22 pm b) How much does running the heat change the numbers typically?
I hate being cold and I always pump the heat on high in an ICE. Will this dramatically make driving cost per mile more expensive?
Tesla is more in line with my preferences, in that I don’t mind cold but hate heat. EVs typically cool better than ICE, but heat less well than ICE.

In winter (we live in Massachusetts) I usually turn the heat to some reasonable temp and then use the heated seats and steering wheel. I sometimes use the heated steering wheel in the summer with AC on because it feels so good on my arthritis.
In 2021 the model 3 changed from electric resistance heat to a heat pump. I never paid much attention to it but it does supply as much heat as I need. I like it warm and almost always set the climate before leaving the car or at least set it from the phone before going to the car.
mpnret
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by mpnret »

Duplicate
Last edited by mpnret on Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by TomatoTomahto »

mpnret wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:07 pm In 2021 the model 3 changed from electric resistance heat to a heat pump. I never paid much attention to it but it does supply as much heat as I need. I like it warm and almost always set the climate before leaving the car or at least set it from the phone before going to the car.
My 2016 X isn’t that advanced :D I’m a big fan of heat pumps, and I’m glad that it’s working well. I assume that they’ll begin to do that with all models.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
squirm
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Re: events that require unfreezing credit

Post by squirm »

dual wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:46 pm so what happens if you run out of charge away from a charging station?

Will AAA charge the car for you from their service truck?

If you have to get it towed, will the tow driver wait until there's an open slot at the charging station and then help you maneuver the car into the slot?
Usually they'll tow you to the nearest charger. Teslas will notify you on it's trip planner if you're going out of supercharger range. It will also tell you to slow down to make it to the next.
Some EVs have turtle mode, some others allow you to run on "zero charge" for a while.
Some EVs are very conservative with its range estimator.

Teslas are the best in terms of avoiding running out of charge because the integration with it's charging network.
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krafty81
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by krafty81 »

Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
Have an ICE as other car but I will always have at least one electric. I own the Mustang Mach E.

No range anxiety here - so many chargers in CA - EA works best.

I did install an adaptor at home - ChargePoint from Home Depot. Electrician did it. Hardly ever use it because I get free charging at work.

I am so glad I bought this car. Great looks, so fun to drive and quiet! Love to drive by CA gas stations showing gas at nearing five dollars a gallon!
squirm
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Re: Electric Auto Question[s - considering a purchase]

Post by squirm »

krafty81 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:56 pm
Toons wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:07 am For those of you who have purchased Electric Autos a couple of questions
Would you return to gas powered vehicles?
How have you managed "range anxiety" when traveling, with passage of time owning vehicle?
Did you install charging adaptor at home?
Considering a purchase
Thanks
:happy
Have an ICE as other car but I will always have at least one electric. I own the Mustang Mach E.

No range anxiety here - so many chargers in CA - EA works best.

I did install an adaptor at home - ChargePoint from Home Depot. Electrician did it. Hardly ever use it because I get free charging at work.

I am so glad I bought this car. Great looks, so fun to drive and quiet! Love to drive by CA gas stations showing gas at nearing five dollars a gallon!
Ford has done an impressive job with their EV lineup. I'm very impressed with their electric pickup too. More competition for Tesla is a win win for all.
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