Carseats for Baby

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spanisharmada
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Carseats for Baby

Post by spanisharmada »

Having a baby that is due in September. Any recommendations for a car seat that is safe, inexpensive, easy to assemble and "gets the job done"? Would prefer to buy it on Amazon, but open to other suggestions.
greenflamingo
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by greenflamingo »

I'd suggest that around some of your baby equipment, a few extra bucks can go a long way. You'll be using this a LOT. $20 extra, if you can afford it, may make you much happier.

You also may want to pay attention to your baby gear ecosystem. Some car seats/strollers go together, etc.

Graco is a big player. That's what we have. This model has been great. The band to tighten/loosen the straps makes things WAAAAY easier. It costs a few bucks more, but it's very worth it.

Graco SnugRide 35 Lite LX Infant Car Seat on Amazon is a good example.
totesmagotes
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by totesmagotes »

My family has used Chicco KeyFit 30 infant seats for our kids, and we've loved them. When the kids are so small, it's much easier, IMO, to have a carrier-style car seat that (1) lets you strap them into the seat in a more open area than that back of your vehicle (i.e., it's easier to strap him/her in when the seat is on the floor or a table) and (2) gives you a place to "put" them when you're out and about (e.g., you can bring put the whole seat in a shopping cart or high chair at a restaurant without having to take baby out, find some way to prop him/her up, etc.). The latter is particularly important if he/she is asleep when you otherwise would need to take him/her out! That particular car seat is very easy to get in and out of the vehicle since it attaches and detaches easily from the base. All 3 of my kids grew out of this seat way before they reached the 30 lb weight limit though -- they got too tall to fit safely in the seat by the time they were 16-20 lbs if I recall correctly. The weight thing seems to be a marketing point that isn't particularly useful since I suspect most children will hit the height limit way before hitting the weight limit. Regardless, it would probably get awkward to try to sling the infant seat holding a a 28-30 lb infant into the vehicle anyway. Each seat we bought came with one base, and we got another base for our other vehicle. It was a snap to install the base in the vehicles since the vehicle positions we put the bases in had LATCH connections. We got a steal of a deal on our last KeyFit 30 -- $75 for the seat and one base + $31 for a second base. It looks like the current prices on Amazon are twice that now. It also looks like the new KeyFit 35 has an extendable head rest, which should fit some of the height vs. weight issues that we faced with the KeyFit 30.

After our kids grew out of their infant seat (and could hold their head up well), we moved them into a convertible (rear-facing to, eventually, front-facing) seat. Our oldest is now just in a booster seat while the others are still in their convertible seats. For the latter, we've used the Graco MyRide 65 (which has been good), Diono Radian R100 (which is narrow but I wouldn't use it rear-facing for a very small child, though it's been great for the kids once they were 4+ yrs old -- it is also very heavy, so I don't recommend it if you're moving it around a lot), the EvenFlo SureRide (we got it back it wasn't going to be used often, was cheap and somewhat narrow, but I don't like it and wouldn't get it again), and a MaxiCosi Pria seat (which is big but has suited us very well).

If you do think you'll move the seat more than once or twice a month, I suggest getting a seat that has a LATCH buckle that is not the hook style. I've found the normal push-button-style LATCH buckle to be much easier to use than the very basic "hook" style.
Last edited by totesmagotes on Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:40 am, edited 5 times in total.
como
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by como »

We really like the Chicco KeyFit infant car seat. We registered for the KeyFit 30, thinking we would want the extra weight limit (30 lbs. vs 22 lbs). We borrowed a KeyFit 30 for kid #1, but then we had 99th percentile length baby in height and they got too long for their infant car seat at 6 months (around 19 pounds, still a bigger baby for weight too). When we had to buy a car seat for #2 we just did the standard KeyFit, since weight wasn't going to be the thing that hit the limit first. If you have two working parents, you'll probably need two bases to latch into.

Chicco carseats are a little newer on the market, so some of the stroller adapters are a little less common (i.e. a little harder to find used) if that's a thing you care about.

We went with the Graco Extent2Fit for a convertible car seat. Really high rear-facing weight/height limits and not too hard to find on sale. We'll probably eventually end up having to get Diono Radian convertible car seats if we have a third kid because they're narrow and can work for three-across. Not cheap, but cheaper than having to buy two minivans.

Also, Bed Bath & Beyond/Buy Buy Baby 20% coupons stack with most of their sales, so sometimes you can find great deals there when a car seat goes on sale.
supalong52
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by supalong52 »

We also used Graco Snugride (forget which number). Clicks into car and stroller so it's convenient. When our son got older, we switched to a convertible car seat -- the Graco® Extend2Fit™ 3-in-1 Car Seat. Now that we're expecting a second, we bought a sit-and-stand stroller that also accepts the Snugride car seat. That way the Snugride gets a little more use.
langelgjm
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by langelgjm »

If you have a Buy Buy Baby or similar store near you, it's worth visiting to try out various carseats in action. Pick them up and see how heavy they are, try out installing them on a seat (without the base, too, if they have a separate base - some stores have an auto seat inside the store just for this purpose).

Also read reviews for your specific car seat / car combination. Just because it technically "fits" doesn't mean it's easy to make it fit, or install/remove.

You can easily get 20% off coupons for Buy Buy Baby as well, and I'd imagine most carseats qualify for free shipping.

Our first carseat was a Chicco Keyfit (30? I think). It came with a base that made install/removal between car and stroller (with adapter) very easy. However, installing the base, or using the carseat without the base, was difficult, and while the carseat alone was light, carseat + base was quite heavy.

We now have a Chicco Nextfit which is much larger. It is quite heavy but very easy to remove/install, so I can easily take it out to fold down all the seats for bigger loads, or switch the carseat from middle to one side if needed.
BattyNatty
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by BattyNatty »

Highly recommend the Chicco KeyFit 35 - this is their latest/newest version and is better than the 30 many folks recommend above (works longer before you have to transition them to their next seat). Highly recommend paring it with a stroller that you can click the seat straight into - for us that was a Baby Jogger Citi Mini with the kit installed to accept the Chicco car seat, but many options there depending on your preferences (ours was super light and easy to fold since we have stairs to deal with).
Paradise
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by Paradise »

I recommend to pick the stroller first and then get the matching car seat that snaps into it.

+1 to go to buy buy baby and test the strollers out. I know we’re frugal on this board but I feel like getting a premium stroller is worth every penny.. high build quality, big wheels, drives well... you’ll be using this daily for years. Not the time to skimp.
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bottlecap
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by bottlecap »

I believe we went with the Chicco KeyFit.

My recommendation is not to go inexpensive if you can help it. Look for sales and exchanges that might save you money. If a friend has an expired car seat, bringing it as an exchange might save you money.

The biggest thing to look for other than safety is features. What is easiest to carry? What is easiest to buckle? What is easiest to install and remove? What is going to be easiest when half the time your child fights like the devil not to be placed in the car seat? One we had had a over that doubled as a blanket for an infant. Very handy.

Good luck and congrats,

JT
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Watty
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by Watty »

Be sure to check on the cost and availability of the additional bases since you will likely need several of them.

When our grandkids were infants they had bases in both of their cars and both sets of grandparents also had a car with a base in it.

This means that there were four bases for one baby.

Be real careful about buying a large stroller. Some of them will pretty well fill up the back of a SUV so they may not be very practical.
Beachey
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by Beachey »

I would add my recommendation for the Chicco Key Fit. The base is simple to install in a car and relatively inexpensive so one seat works for multiple cars (buy a base per car). We then used the Diono Radian RXT which we still use. Our older daughter has Britax Pioneer which is a booster seat. We have one of each in both cars as you don't want to be moving them as it can take a bit to get them secure and others have said are actually quite heavy to move. While you can use the LATCH and anchor points until the child gets a little heavier (65 lbs. max including I believe the seat) the car seat belts are rated for much more weight than the Latch system. Also make sure to use the tether especially when forward facing.



.
tedgeorge
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by tedgeorge »

Target has a trade in event but you likely missed it this year. The trade in events are good places to save some money on those additional car seats you may want.

We had the Chicco Key Fit. Easy to use and fairly easy to clean. A good number of stroller attachments were available for the Bob stroller. The Bobs are awesome!

Never under-estimate the amount of free stuff other parents will give you to get it out of their house. You may be able to find gently used bases, attachments and even strollers. I'm not telling you to get a 10 year old base but I would consider one that is a couple years old that was barely used. Especially if it was in the secondary car that was more of an emergency use than the everyday trips and road trips. Speaking of, you may do a combination of really nice and more comfortable car seat for the majority of use and then a slightly less expensive one for those quick pickups to/from daycare.
vgc303
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by vgc303 »

We went with Uppababy Mesa carseat new, but bought the Uppababy Vista stroller used. Probably more expensive than other options in the thread but I would buy again (used).
Beachey
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by Beachey »

tedgeorge wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:04 am Never under-estimate the amount of free stuff other parents will give you to get it out of their house. You may be able to find gently used bases, attachments and even strollers. I'm not telling you to get a 10 year old base but I would consider one that is a couple years old that was barely used. Especially if it was in the secondary car that was more of an emergency use than the everyday trips and road trips. Speaking of, you may do a combination of really nice and more comfortable car seat for the majority of use and then a slightly less expensive one for those quick pickups to/from daycare.
To me, a car seat is where Bogleheads frugality does not apply. It is not recommended and I would not use a base (or seat) that I did not know the entire history of. For this reason, it is specifically not recommended to buy at a garage sale, etc. Why places like Target do trade-ins, they destroy the old seats. I have even had my insurance company replace seats after minor fender benders where the kids weren't even in the car. All car seats have an expiration date on them. To me, buy the best car seat you can afford and use it properly.
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gwe67
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by gwe67 »

Beachey wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:24 am
To me, a car seat is where Bogleheads frugality does not apply. It is not recommended and I would not use a base (or seat) that I did not know the entire history of. For this reason, it is specifically not recommended to buy at a garage sale, etc. Why places like Target do trade-ins, they destroy the old seats. I have even had my insurance company replace seats after minor fender benders where the kids weren't even in the car. All car seats have an expiration date on them. To me, buy the best car seat you can afford and use it properly.
[/quote]

Great advice. Start with the assumption that baby will be in the seat during a crash. Now do you want an inexpensive seat?
Last edited by gwe67 on Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BrooklynInvest
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by BrooklynInvest »

Did the Uppababy Mesa for our newborn. Expensive. When it was time to get a bigger one we got a Greico 4-in-one that's a little more of a reasonable price point.


EDITED to remove reference to used car seats.
Last edited by BrooklynInvest on Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gwe67
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by gwe67 »

BrooklynInvest wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:32 am Did the Uppababy Mesa for our newborn. Expensive. When it was time to get a bigger one we got a Greico 4-in-one that's a little more of a reasonable price point.

Me, I wouldn't lose sleep over getting a car seat used if you can find one. We did that with quite a bit of stuff that has a limited window of usage.
Bad, and dangerous advice.

Are Secondhand Car Seats Safe?
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-sea ... eats-safe/

Why you should never buy a used car seat!
https://axkid.com/uk/articles/why-you-s ... -car-seat/

13 Items You Should Never Buy Used
https://www.moneycrashers.com/items-nev ... sed-stuff/
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hokiefan4527
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by hokiefan4527 »

We have the Chicco Key Fit. We got the travel system (carrier, base, stroller) plus one additional base. It was more expensive than other brands but so far I am very happy with it. Our daughter is now 7 months old and still using it. Very convenient for clicking it in and out of the base and into the stroller. The stroller can be folded and unfolded in seconds. Very easy. I'm dreading when I will have to move her out of the carrier. She has always seemed to enjoy being in this car seat.

I have a friend who has a 5 week younger baby than mine and he has already grown out of his carrier (graco something) despite being the same size as my daughter so it seems paying more is paying off in amount of usage of the seat.
b4nash
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by b4nash »

  • Only buy new
  • Stroller compatibility is important
  • Check Albeebaby.com (legit, ordered our strollers from them)
phinanciallyfit
Posts: 192
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by phinanciallyfit »

If your goal is to save money, skip the baby bucket seat and go straight to a convertible seat. We had the chicco key fit for baby #1 and she hated it (screaming bloody murder for any length of time in it). Stopped using it at 6weeks old. It is also hard to carry them. So much easier just to stick baby in the car.

For baby 2, we skipped the infant seat and went straight to the chicco nextfit. Our life has been so much better and she will be able to use this seat until she moves to a booster (she is almost 3 now). Highly recommend the ones where the cover zips off and can be machine washed. This really helps make things easier when there is a mess in the seat. The chicco nextfit also has a smaller front to back profile than some other seats, so whoever is sitting in front of the seat will have more room. If you anticipate needing to fit 3 carseats across in the future, then you may want to look into the clek car seats (pricey, but less pricey than having to replace more carseats in the future.
BrooklynInvest
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by BrooklynInvest »

gwe67 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:38 am
BrooklynInvest wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:32 am Did the Uppababy Mesa for our newborn. Expensive. When it was time to get a bigger one we got a Greico 4-in-one that's a little more of a reasonable price point.

Me, I wouldn't lose sleep over getting a car seat used if you can find one. We did that with quite a bit of stuff that has a limited window of usage.
Bad, and dangerous advice.

Are Secondhand Car Seats Safe?
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-sea ... eats-safe/

Why you should never buy a used car seat!
https://axkid.com/uk/articles/why-you-s ... -car-seat/

13 Items You Should Never Buy Used
https://www.moneycrashers.com/items-nev ... sed-stuff/
Good to know! Explains why you don't see too many for sale/give-away. I stand corrected.
logos
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by logos »

Doona.

Its a stroller that folds up into a car seat.

Unfortunately not cheap.

But, safe and saves time and effort.

It only works when they are very small but it really is easy - we loved ours.

A friend of mine told me that every baby item costs $500. That seemed to bear out for us.

I'm sure there are a bunch of used ones floating around since they only work for maybe the first year or so.
fastrak99
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by fastrak99 »

Just saw this mentioned on here and I was skeptical when my wife showed this to me - but absolutely been LOVING this ever since our newborn got here 3 weeks ago. This topic was also a giant debate for us and choice/shopping overload with everything available.

It's the DOONA car seat / stroller two in one. Absolutely wonderful at ease of use and the fact that you don't have to MESS with separate stroller / car seat situation (especially when everything else is already such a fumble in newborns life). There is NOTHING else like it on the market.

Also great that you are never CARRYING a child in that car seat, and always able to STROLL right away, as car seats with infant combination gets very heavy QUICKLY.

They typically stay in this for 9 months up to a year - but considering we're planning on 2 kids this will pay itself multiple times over.

Don't discount this if you want to add a bit extra ease into your life right away !!!

Here is the link to the product on their site. They are frequently SOLD OUT on amazon (where we bought ours).

https://www.shopdoona.com/pages/doona-car-seat-stroller

And here is their PROMO VIDEO on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQPf9nWzA0k

We are also quickly finding out that anything that adds an ounce of convenience / time saving / ease to the childcare life adds significant $$$ to the price.

GOOD LUCK, it's been a FUN 3 week journey so far for us :wink: :beer :mrgreen:

***SIDE NOTE*** A lot of forum members advocate used car seats - and I'm all for SECOND HAND products, but this is one area that I would ABSOLUTELY recommend getting the product new.
MAKsdad
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by MAKsdad »

supalong52 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:28 am We also used Graco Snugride (forget which number). Clicks into car and stroller so it's convenient. When our son got older, we switched to a convertible car seat -- the Graco® Extend2Fit™ 3-in-1 Car Seat. Now that we're expecting a second, we bought a sit-and-stand stroller that also accepts the Snugride car seat. That way the Snugride gets a little more use.
Right here's your answer. The ability to swap from car to stroller is great. The Graco is solid but not overly expensive. It's easy enough to install.
supalong52
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by supalong52 »

fastrak99 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:57 am They typically stay in this for 9 months up to a year - but considering we're planning on 2 kids this will pay itself multiple times over.
We're expecting our second, and we can already see how a single stroller is going to be of little use. It only works if two adults are available to take the kids out. If one adult wants to take an infant and a toddler out, then good luck with that Doona! We do have the Doona tricycle though, which is a great product that grows with the child (until they are ready for a bike w/ training wheels).
fastrak99
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by fastrak99 »

supalong52 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:07 pm
fastrak99 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:57 am They typically stay in this for 9 months up to a year - but considering we're planning on 2 kids this will pay itself multiple times over.
We're expecting our second, and we can already see how a single stroller is going to be of little use. It only works if two adults are available to take the kids out. If one adult wants to take an infant and a toddler out, then good luck with that Doona! We do have the Doona tricycle though, which is a great product that grows with the child (until they are ready for a bike w/ training wheels).
Fair point, will cross that bridge when we get there. Might eventually upgrade to a different option/solution based on our needs with 2X the kids - but as far as one child so far DOONA has been great!!
dboeger1
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by dboeger1 »

gwe67 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:38 am
BrooklynInvest wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:32 am Did the Uppababy Mesa for our newborn. Expensive. When it was time to get a bigger one we got a Greico 4-in-one that's a little more of a reasonable price point.

Me, I wouldn't lose sleep over getting a car seat used if you can find one. We did that with quite a bit of stuff that has a limited window of usage.
Bad, and dangerous advice.

Are Secondhand Car Seats Safe?
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-sea ... eats-safe/

Why you should never buy a used car seat!
https://axkid.com/uk/articles/why-you-s ... -car-seat/

13 Items You Should Never Buy Used
https://www.moneycrashers.com/items-nev ... sed-stuff/
First due in October, so I had recently seen all those articles saying never buy used, but after thinking about it, I honestly think those suggestions are extremely sensationalist and impractical, and I would challenge the notion that one shouldn't buy used. For starters, it's obvious why industry insiders can't recommend used; not only do they have a financial incentive, but they are liable for the performance of their products, and so they live and die by their test data. If you asked a certified technician if a piece of dust was safe to put on a brand new child car seat, they would tell you no because it wasn't tested that way. I'm exaggerating, of course, but I think you get the point. The seats need to meet legal testing standards, and so are only officially supposed to be used as tested, and the industry cannot guarantee the performance of used seats.

However, let's be real. If you use common sense when buying a car seat used by only buying something reported as lightly used, clearly visually in good condition, well within its expiration window, that somebody else clearly trusted their baby in, the real risk of some catastrophic failure in an accident that is precisely due to the fact that the seat is used (meaning excluding any random failures that could occur on any unused instance of the seat) is extraordinarily low. After all, every car seat is used the minute you use it. Meanwhile, what are the most significant risks? Well, it's reported that a huge percentage of car seats are actually installed incorrectly by parents, which is potentially a major safety hazard. Many parents also have bad habits of attaching all kinds of unsafe things to the car seats and their babies which are potential suffocation or other injury hazards. Then there is the inherent risk of driving. By far, one of the biggest improvements you can make to safety is simply to not drive your baby around as often. Every time you get in the car, you're putting everyone's lives at significant risk. If avoidable, it's probably best not to drive baby around everywhere just because one can. And then there are just good defensive driving habits that quite frankly, a huge portion of adult drivers really should adopt whether they have a baby or not. Things like tailgating, speeding, excessive and unnecessary lane changes and passing, and driving while distracted all greatly increase the risk of causing serious accidents.

I'm not saying there aren't things to look out for when buying used, but I think it's important to qualify blanket statements like "bad and dangerous advice", because they tend to just perpetuate twisted versions of the truth that may in fact not be the best advice for everyone. For example, a family might have a legitimate need for a higher-end stroller but not have the budget for the matching car seat unless they buy it used. Or they might get part of a system as a gift or donation. If that family only plans to drive the baby to and from nearby pediatric appointments in light traffic during the first year of life, there's a very real case to be made for buying the seat used at a fraction of the cost and putting the savings towards something else that will greatly benefit the child, such as a college fund or child-proofing the home. As with most things in life, there are trade-offs to the decision to buy used. Just declaring that nobody should ever buy a used car seat assumes that all else would be equal and there is no opportunity or even prohibitive cost to buying the new seat, which is just not always true. You wouldn't tell a first-time home buyer to never buy used because you don't know the history of what was done to the house, would you? Same here. Writing off used seats completely is sensationalist and ignores the serious negative consequences of constantly tossing out short-term use baby items, such as huge expensive plastic items ending up in landfills, as well as the significant benefits of being able to move up in seat quality and convenience. If you dig deeper into crash test data, you'll find that infant seats tend to outperform the larger convertible seats, particularly in side impact protection, and fancier seats tend to have more reliable and verifiable installation procedures. Those benefits can significantly offset the risks of buying lightly used.

As someone who wanted a nicer stroller, was tempted to skip the infant bucket seat due to cost, and will consciously be limiting the amount of driving we'll do with the baby, I ended up buying a used Uppababy Mesa for a great price. The seller said it was barely used due to the pandemic, and judging from the visual condition of the seat (both exterior and the foam under the fabrics), I'm inclined to believe them. It was also bought brand new in 2019, which is consistent with the expiration date on the sticker. I just don't see how I'm putting our child at some great risk relative to the maniacs who speed down the highway weaving in and out of traffic with their baby-on-board stickers to save 5 seconds on the way to Costco. The bucket seat will likely last less than a year, and then we'll move the child into a brand new longer-term reversible seat. I'm really skeptical that this wouldn't be a great recommendation for many families, yet it's almost universally panned because of articles like those. I'll take my chances.
imsomeguy
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by imsomeguy »

Honestly you can't go wrong - just make sure you get one with a stroller adapter that can fit into your stroller of choice.

Also, I'm convinced there is no bigger scam than the baby product market. You stand there browsing the car seat aisle at Buy Buy Baby / Target and you think to yourself "wow if I don't get the most expensive car seat then I don't care about the safety of my child". Or at least that was me with my first and second child. But honestly these car seats are so rigorously tested in the US that I really don't think you can go wrong with any brand (Chicco, Graco, Britax ....) just look for one that is not too bulky and fits your needs.
hi_there
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by hi_there »

I don't think it's worth going with those high end kind of strollers or car seats. With the strollers, I think it's especially meant as a status symbol for stay at home moms. The stroller we have has all terrain suspension and four cupholders. Is this really necessary?

With car seats especially, you will only use it for a few months before baby gets too big. Any run of the mill Chicco or whatever seems more than enough. They have all been crash tested. Instead, focus on practical things, like size, weight, adjustability, and so on.

I bought a quite expensive convertible car seat/booster seat, but it is so wide that it transformed the car into a four seater from a five seater. Also, it is incredibly heavy, and the Latch system only supports a combined infant+seat weight of about 60lb. I should have instead gotten a smaller model, even one that baby can't use for the same age range, and just change it later.
fulltilt
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by fulltilt »

spanisharmada wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:04 am Having a baby that is due in September. Any recommendations for a car seat that is safe, inexpensive, easy to assemble and "gets the job done"? Would prefer to buy it on Amazon, but open to other suggestions.
There are *tons* of places to skimp when buying stuff for a baby, but a good car seat isn't one of them.

I have had great luck with the Chicco Keyfit 30. I recommend them highly. The other factor you need to consider in addition to your criteria is how easy they are to clean. The Chicco you can remove all of the soft parts and wash them while they are detached. Your kid *will* blow out a diaper in the car eventually. :twisted:

As another poster said, you can't really go wrong with a Britax, Chicco, Graco, etc.

The most important thing is that you know how to properly install the seat and use the seat correctly. I can't stress that enough. Studies show most kids' seats are not installed correctly so make sure that whatever seat you choose you know how to use it properly in your car(s).

Buying an extra base is great if you have the cash.

Don't buy used regardless of what anyone on this forum says. Damage to a seat may not be visible which still compromises the seat just like a helmet, car frame, etc....

Best of luck!

PS: If you're buying a breast pump, don't skimp on that either.
dboeger1
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by dboeger1 »

hi_there wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:43 pm I don't think it's worth going with those high end kind of strollers or car seats. With the strollers, I think it's especially meant as a status symbol for stay at home moms. The stroller we have has all terrain suspension and four cupholders. Is this really necessary?

With car seats especially, you will only use it for a few months before baby gets too big. Any run of the mill Chicco or whatever seems more than enough. They have all been crash tested. Instead, focus on practical things, like size, weight, adjustability, and so on.

I bought a quite expensive convertible car seat/booster seat, but it is so wide that it transformed the car into a four seater from a five seater. Also, it is incredibly heavy, and the Latch system only supports a combined infant+seat weight of about 60lb. I should have instead gotten a smaller model, even one that baby can't use for the same age range, and just change it later.
With regards to things like suspension and wheels on strollers, it really depends. The advertised value is in ride comfort and stability, but I think an equally important consideration is overall durability of the system and resilience against different kinds of forces depending on the expected use case. A perfect example is any traveller who has tried to use a wheeled suitcase over rough surfaces like cobblestone streets or sidewalks. Oftentimes, what breaks is not the wheel itself, but the vertical metal axle bar piece that connects the wheel to the main chassis. If thinly made from a cheap, soft metal, those can easily break or wear out over time. Similarly, the support struts connecting the main bars of the stroller's frame tend to be built quite differently, and it's not always strictly based on price. For example, one of the models I was seriously considering was the Nuna Tavo Next. Overall, it seems like a sturdily built model, but the one weak point I was really concerned with was the struts connecting to bottom bar to the center. They're quite a bit smaller and thinner than on many high-end strollers, and I could see them potentially flexing and buckling with hard use over rough terrain. Contrast that with the Uppababy V2 models (I ended up going with the Cruz V2) which have that massive hulking suspension bar that could probably survive a monster truck rally. To me, terrain features aren't so much about the comfort as they are signals that the designers/manufacturers at least tried to build something durable. Any cheap stroller with plastic wheels is going to be fine in the mall, but as is the case with luggage, if the components aren't designed to deal with with large bumps, horizontal stresses, or small debris, they're just going to flex or seize up with dirt or whatever if you repeatedly take them out on a dirt hiking trail, for example. So it really depends on the use case. For parents who intend to stroll their babies over grass fields or dirt trails on a regular basis, I would not assume that just because the cheapest Graco models can survive them once, they must be capable of doing that all the time.

As for the convertible seats, you touched on an interesting point regarding the width. I would expand that to questioning the value proposition of all-in-one seats in general. There's definitely an allure to spending a bit more for an all-in-one that includes a booster mode so you can "save money" over the long run by avoiding having to buy a separate booster. However, there are several important things to consider. having separate reversible and booster sorts allows their simultaneous use for 2 children of staggered ages, which is significantly more efficient than buying 2 expensive all-in-ones. Separating them also eliminates the need for design compromises required to facilitate their combination, so you can get the best convertible and the best booster instead of a so-so mix of both (in your case, a thinner convertible might have been better). With regards to safety, boosters are not really intended to provide structural safety the way earlier seats do. They just position the children and car seat belts appropriately. So there should be no concerns with buying a used booster seat in visibly good condition the way there are for earlier seats which may have unreported compromised structural integrity. That shaves off a portion of the booster seat cost right off the bat. And lastly, used all-in-ones essentially have no resale value, because by the time they're outgrown, they're nearing their expiration date, whereas reselling convertibles allows one to recoup some of the investment. When you consider all those things, the stated value proposition of all-in-ones becomes much less compelling. Basically, I just don't see any reason to spend significantly more for an all-in-one versus getting separate products. Maybe if you can find one at essentially the same price from a brand like Graco, but I know that's not the case for the higher-end brands.

I just realized that despite all my typing, I never actually took the time to try to answer OP's question, so here goes nothing. OP, I think one of the biggest differentiators in the US in particular is anything like the load leg on the Nuna Pipa. Load legs are not as common in the US as they are in Europe, but they supposedly improve crash test results. A slight variation on that concept is energy-absorbing crumple zones like what you see on the Britax seat bases. Britax seems to have wider distribution, particularly in mainstream big-box stores, so if you're looking for a deal on a seat with that kind of feature, I would try to find a Britax on sale (or used, if you're like me and aren't put off by that). They recently updated and rebranded their line as Gen2, so their older models have been going for cheap prices. The Britax Endeavors was on sale for pretty good prices when I was looking, and not only has the crumple zone, but also the front rebound bar thing. Lastly, I think one unique seat that's worth looking at specifically is the Cybex Sirona S. It is somewhat expensive and I think the app-based features are extremely gimmicky and unnecessary, but in addition to a load leg, it has a very interesting swivel feature that makes it easier to get kids in and out, and also makes it a single install for both front and rear facing. I personally decided to save money on an infant bucket seat by buying used so I can splurge on a convertible later, but I was seriously considering foregoing the infant seat altogether and jumping straight to a convertible with an infant insert just to save money. In the end, the used deals in my area seemed like a no-brainer, but if I was to jump into a convertible straight away, I probably would have gone with the Sirona S for the swivel feature. Heck, it's still one of my considerations for after the infant bucket seat, because the Uppababy Mesa we bought used is kind of a tight fit in our Mazda 3, so I have no idea how easy it's going to be to fit a convertible seat without upgrading to an SUV, lol. The Sirona S lets you place the child in the seat while it's facing out the side of the car, which seems so much easier. I think it's a really killer feature that at least deserves a look.
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lthenderson
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by lthenderson »

hi_there wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:43 pm The stroller we have has all terrain suspension and four cupholders. Is this really necessary?
Drink for the pusher, drink for the rider, snacks for the rider and the last cupholder is for accessories like baby wipes and pacifiers. :sharebeer
MadDwag
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by MadDwag »

+1 on the Chicco Keyfit. Get a matching stroller adapter and then you can go from car to stroller without unbuckling.
diasurfer
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by diasurfer »

Graco Snugfit convertible when they were babies. We liked the Britax products once they were older.

car-seat.org is sort of the bogleheads of car seats. Lot of help there, although looks like it will take you weeks to sift through all the advice you got on this thread.
dboeger1
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by dboeger1 »

fulltilt wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:40 pm Don't buy used regardless of what anyone on this forum says. Damage to a seat may not be visible which still compromises the seat just like a helmet, car frame, etc....
Again, I think statements like that deserve a little bit of qualification. I started writing up a long reply, but then I realized I'm really not looking to get into a long debate over this. Clearly, I'm in the minority. To me, it's more a question of probability than the potential negative outcomes. Is it theoretically possible that a used set has unreported damage that significantly compromises its protective ability over a new one from the store? I guess. Is it likely? I really doubt it. I'm unaware of studies on used car seats specifically, but here's one on used bike helmets:

https://helmets.org/helmetlineraging.htm

Out of 1,500 used helmets collected, 825 were filtered out based on visible damage or missing expiration date stickers. Of the remaining 675, only 4 failed the test. 3 of those were older models designed to meet a lesser standard, the other 1 was a recalled product. We don't know the crash history of the other 671 that passed. While the study was specifically looking at the factor of time, the results also suggest that if you visually inspect helmets for damage and confirm they are within expiration, they are extremely safe. Car seats shouldn't be that different, as they use a similar foam. While it may be impossible to visually inspect minor internal damage to foam, it can be possible to inspect more significant damage from a more forceful accident, as show in the comparison picture on this page:

https://www.meaforensic.com/the-bike-he ... mitations/

You can absolutely compare the dimensions of the foam on a used car seat to those of a new one in store. I also think things like proper installation, minimizing unnecessary driving, safe defensive driving habits, and avoiding rush hour are all significantly more meaningful. After all, the car seat only does anything in an accident. Accident prevention is the first line of defense. There's a fine line between a brand new car seat being in slightly better condition and slightly more protective than a used one, and it being a false sense of security. If, and I hope that's a big if, I happen to get in a car accident with a baby, I hope my due diligence in reviewing the condition and function of the used car seat also make used being the reason that baby gets hurt a really big if.

I didn't touch on other factors like damage to plastics because the foam is the big one, but come on, are we really going to debate the risk of unseen hairline fractures in a visibly like new car seat that is well within expiration? They're made of quite bulky plastic and designed to last years. That's really stretching it.

Personally, I think this is just another one of those areas where people's fear gets to them to the point that they assign excessive weight to highly improbable circumstances at the expense of other more meaningful things. For example, I suspect most Bogleheads would be more receptive to buying things like toys and strollers used, yet I suspect the risks there are far greater. It's easy enough for responsible sellers to avoid reselling car seats after a crash, but following up on countless other recalls is much tougher. Kids will find ways to hurt themselves, and there are all kinds of choking and other hazards that make their way into many baby products. One that I know of is a popular stroller that was recalled after amputating children's fingers in multiple instances. That one apparently got a lot of media attention quite some number of years ago, and yet to my surprise, there are still literally dozens of listings for that exact stroller on OfferUp in my area. I think it's important to at least think about how our intuition about which used products are safe may mislead us. You're free to disagree with me as many do, but I think the blanket suggestion to always buy new car seats has more to do with industry liability than reason, and if saving $250 on a 2-year-old seat as I did means being able to benefit the child in other significant ways, I don't think it's a fair declaration. "Never" should be reserved for things like never microwave aluminum foil or never pay credit card interest, not never save good money on a lightly used product that might be the best option for your child.
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leeks
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by leeks »

We have been satisfied with the made-in-USA cosco scenera since birth and then cosco finale when kids were older. Each is available from under $50 order from Walmart.com.

They happen to be the cheapest option, but are lightweight to carry around (relative to other carseats), approved for airplane use, easy enough to install in multiple vehicles, not too wide (so can still fit three people in a back row), and we do not feel we would have preferred anything more expensive.

Many of the more expensive ones are made in china and bulkier, more annoying to use. I don't think it is fair to say it is a "worse" carseat just because it is the cheapest option.

Major caveat is that we never wanted the carseat that snaps into stroller configuration (we used on-body carriers like ergo for each of our babies, we used a stroller rarely and only when children were toddlers).
kelvan80
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by kelvan80 »

Chicco but I'd just get the convertible that starts at 5 lbs and goes up from there. My kiddo is 50 lbs now at 6.5 years old and we are just now buying him a new booster.
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by KFBR392 »

We used the Britax B-Safe and really liked it. (I think it's now called the B-Lively.) They're well made and well reviewed and are of the variety that clicks into the stroller or a base in the car. We bought a 2nd base for my wife's car and the whole system served us well until our son outgrew it. We rarely need a stroller now that he's 3.5 YO but he fits in the stroller just fine and it has outlasted most of the $1000 strollers our friends purchased and replaced in the same time period.
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by Trader Joe »

spanisharmada wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:04 am Having a baby that is due in September. Any recommendations for a car seat that is safe, inexpensive, easy to assemble and "gets the job done"? Would prefer to buy it on Amazon, but open to other suggestions.
Did you do a thorough review of the feedback on Amazon.com?

If you did, what did you determine?
finite_difference
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by finite_difference »

fulltilt wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:40 pm
spanisharmada wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:04 am Having a baby that is due in September. Any recommendations for a car seat that is safe, inexpensive, easy to assemble and "gets the job done"? Would prefer to buy it on Amazon, but open to other suggestions.
There are *tons* of places to skimp when buying stuff for a baby, but a good car seat isn't one of them.

[snip]

As another poster said, you can't really go wrong with a Britax, Chicco, Graco, etc.

The most important thing is that you know how to properly install the seat and use the seat correctly. I can't stress that enough. Studies show most kids' seats are not installed correctly so make sure that whatever seat you choose you know how to use it properly in your car(s).

Buying an extra base is great if you have the cash.
+1. Based on my only slightly anecdotal evidence, nobody in the world knows how to install a car seat correctly except a) me and b) the lady from the hospital who showed me how.

Every person who I’ve seen install a car seat has done it wrong.

I highly recommend asking the hospital if they have a referral to a car seat installer. Sometimes it’s at your local fire station. It’s free and they’ll show you how to do it right. You can ask them what percent of people they think do it right.

Clearly there must be some built in safety factor since otherwise fatality rates would be through the roof, but it’s a good feeling to know you’re installing it correctly for maximum safety.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
jdstripling
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by jdstripling »

If you are planning on having more than one kid it makes a lot of sense and will make your life sooo much easier by going with an portable infant car seat with a permanent base installed in your car and then purchasing a convertible seat for when they outgrow the infant seat. Car seats have fairly short expiration dates on them which in my uneducated opinion is a way to sell more car seats although the stated "reason" is due to safety concerns with deterioration/fatigue of the plastic in the seats. For example I purchased my infant seat in 2017 and it expires in 2023.

We ended up going with a Chicco Keyfit with two bases so my and my wife both had a base permanently secured in our vehicles. It is really nice being able to just drop the seat into the base and your ready to go. Once our first child turned 1, we replaced the Keyfit with a Graco Extend2Fit that still comfortably holds her at age 4 and could hold her until she no longer needs a booster (up to 65 lbs). Baby 2 has now used the infant car seat and we ended up going with one booster seat and an additional Graco Extend2Fit as a replacements for the infant seat. So we now have two Graco Extend2fits installed in our main vehicle and a booster and extend2fit in my work vehicle.

All seats were 100 to 130ish depending on if you can find a sale. When you are talking the safety of your baby, if you can find a seat that is easy to install correctly it is a big plus.
seawolf21
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by seawolf21 »

Chicco KeyFit 30 got top ratings by Consumer Reports. 20% Bed Bath Beyond coupons can be used on this.
phinanciallyfit
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by phinanciallyfit »

Paradise wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:41 am I recommend to pick the stroller first and then get the matching car seat that snaps into it.

+1 to go to buy buy baby and test the strollers out. I know we’re frugal on this board but I feel like getting a premium stroller is worth every penny.. high build quality, big wheels, drives well... you’ll be using this daily for years. Not the time to skimp.
I quite literally lol'd at this. Our youngest is almost 3yo and we barely used our stroller with her or her big sister. I'm so glad it was passed down to us (it was high end, so that wasn't the issue) because I would have been pissed if we spent much on it. Turns out it is easier to carry a baby in a carrier (i.e. something like an ergo) than push a stroller up hills in a hilly neighborhood, and of course strollers aren't particularly helpful for hikes either. Pushing a stroller and a shopping cart simultaneously also not all that convenient. It is also easier to have a child strapped to you in airports than pushing a stroller and carryon luggage. A stroller just didn't fit our lifestyle, but plenty of people love them.

OP, I recommend looking at your lifestyle and how different pieces of equipment fit into it your lifestyle rather than buying all the things people say you need. If you decide you need something after baby is born, it isnt that hard to get it (with the exception of a safe place to sleep and car seat, of course. You need those.)
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by phinanciallyfit »

Paradise wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:41 am I recommend to pick the stroller first and then get the matching car seat that snaps into it.

+1 to go to buy buy baby and test the strollers out. I know we’re frugal on this board but I feel like getting a premium stroller is worth every penny.. high build quality, big wheels, drives well... you’ll be using this daily for years. Not the time to skimp.
I quite literally lol'd at this. Our youngest is almost 3yo and we barely used our stroller with her or her big sister. I'm so glad it was passed down to us (it was high end, so that wasn't the issue) because I would have been pissed if we spent much on it. Turns out it is easier to carry a baby in a carrier (i.e. something like an ergo) than push a stroller up hills in a hilly neighborhood, and of course strollers aren't particularly helpful for hikes either. Pushing a stroller and a shopping cart simultaneously also not all that convenient. It is also easier to have a child strapped to you in airports than pushing a stroller and carryon luggage. A stroller just didn't fit our lifestyle, but plenty of people love them.

OP, I recommend looking at your lifestyle and how different pieces of equipment fit into it your lifestyle rather than buying all the things people say you need. If you decide you need something after baby is born, it isnt that hard to get it (with the exception of a safe place to sleep and car seat, of course. You need those.)
fulltilt
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by fulltilt »

phinanciallyfit wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:06 pm
Paradise wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:41 am I recommend to pick the stroller first and then get the matching car seat that snaps into it.

+1 to go to buy buy baby and test the strollers out. I know we’re frugal on this board but I feel like getting a premium stroller is worth every penny.. high build quality, big wheels, drives well... you’ll be using this daily for years. Not the time to skimp.
I quite literally lol'd at this. Our youngest is almost 3yo and we barely used our stroller with her or her big sister. I'm so glad it was passed down to us (it was high end, so that wasn't the issue) because I would have been pissed if we spent much on it. Turns out it is easier to carry a baby in a carrier (i.e. something like an ergo) than push a stroller up hills in a hilly neighborhood, and of course strollers aren't particularly helpful for hikes either. Pushing a stroller and a shopping cart simultaneously also not all that convenient. It is also easier to have a child strapped to you in airports than pushing a stroller and carryon luggage. A stroller just didn't fit our lifestyle, but plenty of people love them.

OP, I recommend looking at your lifestyle and how different pieces of equipment fit into it your lifestyle rather than buying all the things people say you need. If you decide you need something after baby is born, it isnt that hard to get it (with the exception of a safe place to sleep and car seat, of course. You need those.)
Totally. This is something you have to learn by experience. Hint: taking a stroller into a corn maze is a horrible idea no matter the wheel size. :oops:
dboeger1
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by dboeger1 »

phinanciallyfit wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:06 pm
Paradise wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:41 am I recommend to pick the stroller first and then get the matching car seat that snaps into it.

+1 to go to buy buy baby and test the strollers out. I know we’re frugal on this board but I feel like getting a premium stroller is worth every penny.. high build quality, big wheels, drives well... you’ll be using this daily for years. Not the time to skimp.
I quite literally lol'd at this. Our youngest is almost 3yo and we barely used our stroller with her or her big sister. I'm so glad it was passed down to us (it was high end, so that wasn't the issue) because I would have been pissed if we spent much on it. Turns out it is easier to carry a baby in a carrier (i.e. something like an ergo) than push a stroller up hills in a hilly neighborhood, and of course strollers aren't particularly helpful for hikes either. Pushing a stroller and a shopping cart simultaneously also not all that convenient. It is also easier to have a child strapped to you in airports than pushing a stroller and carryon luggage. A stroller just didn't fit our lifestyle, but plenty of people love them.

OP, I recommend looking at your lifestyle and how different pieces of equipment fit into it your lifestyle rather than buying all the things people say you need. If you decide you need something after baby is born, it isnt that hard to get it (with the exception of a safe place to sleep and car seat, of course. You need those.)
Excellent point that it's highly lifestyle-dependent. Perhaps the most obvious use case for a stroller is when a single/lone parent needs to transport both a child and stuff but keep their body/arms free for whatever reason. For example, urban pedestrians who drop kids off at a daycare on the way to work. They can't necessarily break a sweat in their work clothes or wear/carry a work bag in addition to a baby carrier. Another one would be shopping in places without carts, such as malls. Lastly, you mentioned hiking as a time for baby carriers, but if you add camping/picnicking to the mix, it becomes more of a gray area. And of course, double+ strollers for siblings, as difficult as they are, serve an important purpose. My wife and I recently took a trip to Great Smoky Mountains National Park. There's a short but steep hike uphill to a sort of tower observatory called Clingman's Dome. We were shocked to see a father pushing triplets in a stroller up the mountain. I'm not sure which type of device would be better at that point. That dude was proof superheroes exist.
amindu
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by amindu »

Check out the Clek Liing. We wanted something built in North America, and they are built at their factory in Canada.

https://clekinc.com/products/infant-seat/liing/
stupidkid
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by stupidkid »

Like others in this thread - we have/used an uppababy mesa with the uppababy vista. Like others - we chose the car seat based on the stroller. I (dad) was very resistant to the (to me) absurd expense of the uppababy products. I was overruled. Two years later some reflection.

The uppababy stroller is great, very high quality. Being able to click the mesa carseat in & out is a major feature consideration depending on your lifestyle - we found it very convenient. This functionality is not limited to uppababy, but like previously said - choose your stroller then pick a car seat that clicks in. We also got the matching bassinet. I thought that would be dumb - it was actually pretty nice for the first few months to go on walks with.

I don't have regret about the stroller expense - we walk everywhere and use it every day still. A previous poster said it's hard to use the stroller and grocery cart - we don't use a grocery cart. The uppababy has a big basket down below which holds our groceries (or anything else) as we shop - works great. I don't know what that's worth - but it's very convenient. We live in a relatively HCOL - it does seem like everyone has one...

A friend has the mockingbird - seems basically as nice/useful as the uppababy for half the price.

I thought the mesa was ok but it's heavy and I don't know if there's a better release mechanism but I found the rear button really annoying to use. I would often wake the baby trying to disconnect from the base.

We now have a nuna convertible seat - it's fine. It's also expensive, like all the baby stuff. I care more about familial happiness than financial management in this area so I try not to object - and I realize we're very lucky to be in that position.
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leeks
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by leeks »

amindu wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:46 pm Check out the Clek Liing. We wanted something built in North America, and they are built at their factory in Canada.

https://clekinc.com/products/infant-seat/liing/
Sheesh, $400!!

The Cosco Scenera is made in Indiana and our first one was literally 1/10 of that price ($40 7 years ago). Today's price is $50 on Walmart.com (I guess that inflation thing is real). I don't understand why many folks think the more expensive made in China ones are "better." I don't know anything about the Canadian one.

https://csftl.org/cosco-scenera-next-review-update/
Last edited by leeks on Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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leeks
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Re: Carseats for Baby

Post by leeks »

phinanciallyfit wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:06 pm
Paradise wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:41 am I recommend to pick the stroller first and then get the matching car seat that snaps into it.

+1 to go to buy buy baby and test the strollers out. I know we’re frugal on this board but I feel like getting a premium stroller is worth every penny.. high build quality, big wheels, drives well... you’ll be using this daily for years. Not the time to skimp.
I quite literally lol'd at this. Our youngest is almost 3yo and we barely used our stroller with her or her big sister. I'm so glad it was passed down to us (it was high end, so that wasn't the issue) because I would have been pissed if we spent much on it. Turns out it is easier to carry a baby in a carrier (i.e. something like an ergo) than push a stroller up hills in a hilly neighborhood, and of course strollers aren't particularly helpful for hikes either. Pushing a stroller and a shopping cart simultaneously also not all that convenient. It is also easier to have a child strapped to you in airports than pushing a stroller and carryon luggage. A stroller just didn't fit our lifestyle, but plenty of people love them.

OP, I recommend looking at your lifestyle and how different pieces of equipment fit into it your lifestyle rather than buying all the things people say you need. If you decide you need something after baby is born, it isnt that hard to get it (with the exception of a safe place to sleep and car seat, of course. You need those.)
I also laughed at that statement. We have two kids two years apart and I used an Ergo daily (or a Tula toddler carrier) for about four years. A stroller was only occasionally useful. And we had our toddlers walk as much as possible once they could, and by the time they were two, a carrier or stroller was only used if we would be away from home during naptime or taking public transit where I wanted them confined.

Our compact, lightweight, less expensive stroller (Mountain Buggy Nano) was just fine for the times we did want to use one. I remember pushing the toddler around the block over and over to get him to nap during the late months of my second pregnancy - that was a phase when the stroller earned its keep. If we ever have another kid, I'd probably get a Zoe stroller which is similar but cheaper.
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