Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

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Topic Author
softmax
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:27 am

Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by softmax »

I'm starting woodworking as a hobby so I'm looking for a good drill/impact driver combo. Currently there are two kits from Dewalt available on Amazon:

Brushed: $149
Brushless: $279

I wonder whether the brushless versions are worth the extra bucks? Thanks.

-softmax
Onlineid3089
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Onlineid3089 »

Brushless is better. If you aren't using them in an all day/every day type situation it probably won't matter. How much does the extra $130 expense mean to you? I'd probably buy the brushless if getting into these kind of tools now, but mine are all old brushed and work just fine so no reason to replace.
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kevinf
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by kevinf »

One difference is that brushed motors create sparks in the motor housing. So if you are working somewhere that sparks could cause a problem it's something to be aware of. Sawdust in the air can cause an explosion, leaking tanks of flammable gas, etc. In short, make sure your workshop is well ventilated and get whatever you feel like you can afford :P

A more specific opinion would be that most woodworking isn't going to tax your equipment like drilling/driving into metal or masonry would and a less expensive kit isn't going to struggle for your use case. So if you don't want to spend a bunch of money on this, you have that money for something else.

A counterpoint is that if you intend to keep at this, few people regret buying higher end equipment. Well maintained drills and drivers can last a very long time.
alfaspider
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by alfaspider »

softmax wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:50 pm I'm starting woodworking as a hobby so I'm looking for a good drill/impact driver combo. Currently there are two kits from Dewalt available on Amazon:

Brushed: $149
Brushless: $279

I wonder whether the brushless versions are worth the extra bucks? Thanks.

-softmax

I think the brushless power tool upgrades are worthwhile. It's noticeable if you've used the brushed vs brushless version of the same tool. But if budget is tight, it could be worth using the savings over brushless for separate impact drills and drivers. For jobs where you need to swap between drilling holes and driving fasteners, it's nice to have both tools so you aren't constantly having to change from a drill bit to a driving bit.
jdv01
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by jdv01 »

I like looking at reviews on YouTube by Project Farm for the answers to a lot of DIY questions about power tools, glues, tapes etc. He does a great job looking at a lot of different options and pays for everything he reviews. I went with brushless for my Milwaukee circular saw and drill. My impact driver is brushed. My neighbor was helping me put together some raised garden beds and we compared my Milwaukee against his brushed DeWalt impact driver and my Milwaukee was faster at driving screws. That being said I don't know that I would spend more just for DIY woodworking if I was doing it all day every day I would go brushless since you usually get better battery runtime from brushless.

If money isn't a big deal buy the best you can afford with which ever color scheme appeals to you knowing that they will last a long time and probably deliver everything you need. What is really interesting is looking at who makes what tools. Milwaukee/Rigid/Ryobi/Hart all made by TTI. Black and Decker/DeWalt/Bosticht/Porter Cable/Craftsman all made by Black and Decker/Stanley. Pick one brand and stick with it if possible since it makes batteries and charging easier. That being said. I have Milwaukee, DeWalt, Porter Cable, Ryobi, Hart, Worx and SunJoe tools. My brushless Ryobi lawn mower was worth the extra money for more power and longer runtime. And I love my Milwaukee hackzall saw. If money were no object I would just by all Milwaukee tools but some of their tools are very expensive but if I were using them all day everyday I would think it is worth the money. But for occasional use I end up buying what I can easily get and I don't worry about the problems with batteries and runtime. I think it is hard to beat Ryobi for breadth of tools that run on one battery type though Hart is now offering the same tool line with a more conventional battery style. Walmart is carrying Hart tools now looks like they are dumping their Bostitch and HyperTough lines. I just bought a Hart 20v powered sprayer and really like it. The Hart tools and Ryobi tools are basically the same price point. Just a different color scheme and battery style. In the end they all seem to do all that I need just wish I could have gotten all of the tools from one vendor. Looking back Ryobi has the most options with Hart a close second. If you go Rigid or Milwaukee be prepared to pay more but not necessarily will it be better than DeWalt or Ryobi. But check Project Farm he does a great job for testing if you are really concerned. I know he has one on impact drivers and drills.
davemanjam
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by davemanjam »

jdv01 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:29 pmLooking back Ryobi has the most options with Hart a close second. If you go Rigid or Milwaukee be prepared to pay more but not necessarily will it be better than DeWalt or Ryobi.
There are so many brands these days. Ryobi has been around, but Hart is a recent brand introduced for Wally world.
I'd be cautious about this as they may not be around for long. So who knows if your batteries will be cross compatible.
Dewalt, Milwaukee on the other hand aren't going anywhere and are considered top of the line and used by professionals.
alfaspider
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by alfaspider »

davemanjam wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:38 pm
jdv01 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:29 pmLooking back Ryobi has the most options with Hart a close second. If you go Rigid or Milwaukee be prepared to pay more but not necessarily will it be better than DeWalt or Ryobi.
There are so many brands these days. Ryobi has been around, but Hart is a recent brand introduced for Wally world.
I'd be cautious about this as they may not be around for long. So who knows if your batteries will be cross compatible.
Dewalt, Milwaukee on the other hand aren't going anywhere and are considered top of the line and used by professionals.
I certainly agree with going with established brands. I have a Sears era Craftsman right angle impact driver that is abandonware now. If the one battery I have for it goes, the tool is junk as NOS batteries cost as much as a paid for the tool 8 years ago. If I had bought a Milwaukee at the same time, I would have paid a bit more, but there would still be ready replacement batteries.

Now, I mostly have a mix of Milwaukee and Ryobi. My Ryobi tools are mostly yard tools (Milwaukee got in the yard tool game later and still doesn't make a lawnmower). Milwaukee has a better line of tools for mechanics, and Ryobi has a nice selection of esoteric stuff like inflators that work for air mattresses. I also use Ryobi for seldom used tools, and Milwaukee for more often used ones.
HIMcDunnough
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by HIMcDunnough »

At the risk of elevating a single experience to data that can be extrapolated from, count me among the people who say a reliable, established brand is more important than brushless. I've been putting my Milwaukee cordless drill and cordless impact driver (M18, I think?) through regular homeowner type use for over ten years now with no issues. Not sure if brushless was available for these models back then, but I've had no issues.

How about this: start out with brushed units and, if you really run them into the ground because you're using them so much, you'll appreciate the opportunity to shell out top dollar for a top of the line replacement when necessary. If you're like me, half the fun of hobbies is the opportunity to buy stuff "needed" for the hobby, so do Future You a favor and don't deprive him or her of this joy.
Mr.Chlorine
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Mr.Chlorine »

How urgent do you need them? I got my brushless set over black Friday a few years ago and paid about what the brushed set costs now. Plus they threw in some bits and a travel bag. If you have something now that can hold you over until November, I would splurge then on brushless.
Ramjet
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Ramjet »

RIDGID has a brushless driver/drill combo package at Home Depot with a lifetime warranty. They work great. Fantastic line up for their battery operated power tools. I got into woodworking last year when Covid started. It's a great hobby. It's unfortunate lumbar prices are so high right now though
Ramjet
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Ramjet »

jdv01 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:29 pm What is really interesting is looking at who makes what tools. Milwaukee/Rigid/Ryobi/Hart all made by TTI.
I think TTI is licensed to sell Ridgid but doesn't make them
andypanda
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by andypanda »

"t's nice to have both tools so you aren't constantly having to change from a drill bit to a driving bit."

That's so true. In addition, I have my father's old drill and two of my late uncle's drills. He died in 1985. They're old, corded, require a wrench/key, solid metal, not a trace of paint, and still plugging along. I like my cordless Dewalt drill and driver and my Dewalt impact tool that fits under the riding mowers to get the blades off.

What makes work so much easier is having the extra old drills for making assorted sizes of pilot holes and countersinks, while the good tools do the heavier work.
jdv01
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by jdv01 »

For Who Makes What I was using this article. https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/pow ... hem/43632/

For yard work I like Ryobi/Hart they seem to be the same in general. But for my other tools I've been happy with Milwaukee and never felt that I overpaid even though they generally cost more.

For corded tools I'm less picky about brand since I don't have to worry about batteries. I think the Hart line is on level with Black and Decker. If I were buying DIY/Hobby tools for my shop I would look to Milwaukee first then DeWalt if I couldn't find what I wanted I would look at Makita and then Ryobi. Makita usually costs as much or more than Milwaukee. Brushless will have more power and generally manage battery life better plus no wear points on the actual motor like a brushed tool look at the online reviews that are not sponsored they will give you an honest opinion. If you aren't using them everyday then Red/White, Black/Yellow or Orange will all work about the same. Just having a long history of supplying the trades and good customer support for batteries etc. will make things easier and any of the big 3 or 4 will do that. I've been happy with a mix of brands but I would rather have just one or two go to brands when buying. Just keeping everything charged for multiple brands can be a challenge.
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batpot
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by batpot »

Don't pay full retail, buy on sale.
Monitor slickdeals.net

Also, you probably can get away 12V brushless. If you really need the extra power, break out the extension cord, and use a corded drill. You will rarely ever need to reach for it.
Topic Author
softmax
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by softmax »

kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:04 pm One difference is that brushed motors create sparks in the motor housing. So if you are working somewhere that sparks could cause a problem it's something to be aware of. Sawdust in the air can cause an explosion, leaking tanks of flammable gas, etc. In short, make sure your workshop is well ventilated and get whatever you feel like you can afford :P

A more specific opinion would be that most woodworking isn't going to tax your equipment like drilling/driving into metal or masonry would and a less expensive kit isn't going to struggle for your use case. So if you don't want to spend a bunch of money on this, you have that money for something else.

A counterpoint is that if you intend to keep at this, few people regret buying higher end equipment. Well maintained drills and drivers can last a very long time.
Yeah I consider general woodworking a light use case although I'm likely wrong as a beginner :happy
I wouldn't mind paying more for high-end equipment but if it's like Toyota vs Mercedes, I'm okay with the bare minimum that gets the job done.
Topic Author
softmax
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by softmax »

batpot wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:23 pm Don't pay full retail, buy on sale.
Monitor slickdeals.net

Also, you probably can get away 12V brushless. If you really need the extra power, break out the extension cord, and use a corded drill. You will rarely ever need to reach for it.
The two kits I listed are already on sale. I'll probably skip 12V because it's not too common.
There's another cheaper Dewalt brushless kit at Lowes ($179) that has similar specs to the brushed kit, so you are basically paying $30 more for the extra battery life.
squirm
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by squirm »

Ramjet wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:22 pm RIDGID has a brushless driver/drill combo package at Home Depot with a lifetime warranty. They work great. Fantastic line up for their battery operated power tools. I got into woodworking last year when Covid started. It's a great hobby. It's unfortunate lumbar prices are so high right now though
This^^^
Just get the Ridgid, lifetime warranty covers (LSA) the tool and the battery. No other manufacture offers this and Ridgid has quality tools.

I've had Ridgid tools for many years (brushed and brushless) with LSA you don't worry if it breaks (I've had one tool where the gear stripped, Ridgid fixed it in two weeks).
pindevil
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by pindevil »

softmax wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:50 pm I wonder whether the brushless versions are worth the extra bucks? Thanks.
Yes
alfaspider
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by alfaspider »

softmax wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:35 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:04 pm One difference is that brushed motors create sparks in the motor housing. So if you are working somewhere that sparks could cause a problem it's something to be aware of. Sawdust in the air can cause an explosion, leaking tanks of flammable gas, etc. In short, make sure your workshop is well ventilated and get whatever you feel like you can afford :P

A more specific opinion would be that most woodworking isn't going to tax your equipment like drilling/driving into metal or masonry would and a less expensive kit isn't going to struggle for your use case. So if you don't want to spend a bunch of money on this, you have that money for something else.

A counterpoint is that if you intend to keep at this, few people regret buying higher end equipment. Well maintained drills and drivers can last a very long time.
Yeah I consider general woodworking a light use case although I'm likely wrong as a beginner :happy
I wouldn't mind paying more for high-end equipment but if it's like Toyota vs Mercedes, I'm okay with the bare minimum that gets the job done.
I don't think Toyota v. Mercedes is a good analogy. The high-end brands aren't just distinguished by fancy features and comfort. In the tool world, the cheaper stuff simply won't stand up to daily use while the better stuff will. Of course, the better stuff is also usually more of a pleasure to use.

The cheap stuff often will do the job, but may add some level of frustration or fail to finish it. For example, a cheap impact driver may not be able to drive a big lag bolt into hard wood the final few turns. That leaves you stuck or finding a manual tool to do the final turns.

I'm not a big woodworker (more of an automotive guy), but I do find that I'm much much more often stymied by not having the right tool than by having a tool of insufficient quality. That's not saying always buy cheap tools, but don't try to use a nice but wrong tool to do the job.
Topic Author
softmax
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by softmax »

jdv01 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:29 pm Pick one brand and stick with it if possible since it makes batteries and charging easier.
Yeah I do hate having a bunch of batteries that are not compatible with each other. My research tells me that Dewalt is a good balance between price and quality.
mggray17
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by mggray17 »

I've bought from ACME tool. Completely satisfied.

https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/de ... r-dcd777c2
seppatown
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by seppatown »

The latest generation Milwaukee M12 Fuel (brushless) drill/driver kit is the best thing since sliced bread.

You’ll be drilling dimensional lumber, sheet metal with ease, and driving the entire range of fasteners and lag bolts with zero issues.

The weight and size benefits against an 18v system are significant.

Don’t let the voltage rating fool you. The power tools we have available today are modern miracles.

I own Dewalt and Makita tools, and 18V counterparts as well and am satisfied all around. But Milwaukee’s 12V ecosystem is a gamechanger.

Tools don’t get used by the average homeowner when they are a pain to lug around and or set up. The m12 fuel system addresses this.
Topic Author
softmax
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by softmax »

alfaspider wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:45 pm
softmax wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:35 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:04 pm One difference is that brushed motors create sparks in the motor housing. So if you are working somewhere that sparks could cause a problem it's something to be aware of. Sawdust in the air can cause an explosion, leaking tanks of flammable gas, etc. In short, make sure your workshop is well ventilated and get whatever you feel like you can afford :P

A more specific opinion would be that most woodworking isn't going to tax your equipment like drilling/driving into metal or masonry would and a less expensive kit isn't going to struggle for your use case. So if you don't want to spend a bunch of money on this, you have that money for something else.

A counterpoint is that if you intend to keep at this, few people regret buying higher end equipment. Well maintained drills and drivers can last a very long time.
Yeah I consider general woodworking a light use case although I'm likely wrong as a beginner :happy
I wouldn't mind paying more for high-end equipment but if it's like Toyota vs Mercedes, I'm okay with the bare minimum that gets the job done.
I don't think Toyota v. Mercedes is a good analogy. The high-end brands aren't just distinguished by fancy features and comfort. In the tool world, the cheaper stuff simply won't stand up to daily use while the better stuff will. Of course, the better stuff is also usually more of a pleasure to use.

The cheap stuff often will do the job, but may add some level of frustration or fail to finish it. For example, a cheap impact driver may not be able to drive a big lag bolt into hard wood the final few turns. That leaves you stuck or finding a manual tool to do the final turns.

I'm not a big woodworker (more of an automotive guy), but I do find that I'm much much more often stymied by not having the right tool than by having a tool of insufficient quality. That's not saying always buy cheap tools, but don't try to use a nice but wrong tool to do the job.
Another option for me is to get one brushed and the other brushless. Is having a brushless impact driver more worthwhile than having a brushless drill?
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kevinf
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by kevinf »

https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
hunoraut
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by hunoraut »

* Mostly brushed vs brushless motors have to do with wear and longevity. If you don't use the tool frequently, it doesn't matter.

Everything else that is important to you is independent of brushed vs brushless:

* Power or effectiveness of the tool is impacted by other factors such as voltage, design, etc. Check the specs for what you require.
* Ergonomics (grip, weight, balance) is also very important if you use it often.
* Having things made in same factory or owned by same conglomerate is not that meaningful. A parent company can design different products to different specs, and a factory can construct things to different specified levels of quality. Just as important: differences in warranty terms.

One of the most important consideration if buying cordless tool is the ecosystem. The battery is a huge chunk of the cost. If you are buying the first cordless tool, it will likely set the basis for your future purchases (saws, grinders, lamps, etc...).
crefwatch
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by crefwatch »

I’m still using a 9.6v Makita drill from 1987. I put a tool-less chuck on it immediately. But nothing is as well made as it used to be-especially at big-box chains that focus on advertised price promotion.
Onlineid3089
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Onlineid3089 »

hunoraut wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:19 am * Mostly brushed vs brushless motors have to do with wear and longevity. If you don't use the tool frequently, it doesn't matter.

Everything else that is important to you is independent of brushed vs brushless:

* Power or effectiveness of the tool is impacted by other factors such as voltage, design, etc. Check the specs for what you require.
* Ergonomics (grip, weight, balance) is also very important if you use it often.
* Having things made in same factory or owned by same conglomerate is not that meaningful. A parent company can design different products to different specs, and a factory can construct things to different specified levels of quality. Just as important: differences in warranty terms.

One of the most important consideration if buying cordless tool is the ecosystem. The battery is a huge chunk of the cost. If you are buying the first cordless tool, it will likely set the basis for your future purchases (saws, grinders, lamps, etc...).
I agree one of the main considerations should be the ecosystem. I'm pretty locked into Black and Decker all because I bought a 20v weed eater right after I bought my house and at that time there were very few brands putting out that kind of stuff. Then came the sweeper and hedge trimmer, and by the time I had reason to get a drill/impact driver/circular saw/sabre saw I already had so many batteries for B&D it didn't make sense to change so I've always continued on with their 20v line. Fortunately, they still work fine for my light homeowner use, though it would be nice if the saws had a little more power.
NJ-Irish
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by NJ-Irish »

I bought a Bosch 12v Impact Driver 11 years ago under the assumption that if I ever needed a more powerful drill, I’d go out and buy it at that time. I don’t recall any brushless options back then.

Last summer, it finally happened, I needed to drill 6in lag bolts and couldn’t get enough juice from the impact driver. So the extra power is a once-ever-10-years type problem. I bought a 20v brushless dewalt drill driver.

I keep the 20v in the garage and the 12v in the apartment. I use the 12v about 95% of the 20v out of convenience when I’m outside. I use them a few times a week and never had any problems with brushed vs brushless.
Nebraska_Drought
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

I had a brushed driver that lasted me 20+ years and it was low end. When I replaced, I went with a brushless and I hope the $ spent will make this my last purchase of this kind. To note, it is something that I used occasionally, not everyday use. If you are going to be using these more regularly, it is smart to have a bit more spent and have something that will last longer.

I'll also second the spark vs no-spark of the two, especially with woodworking. I saw a "flash fire" once with a person working on some trim boards in an confined area. It was not severe and no one was hurt but scared the heck out of us.
leftcoaster
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by leftcoaster »

seppatown wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:17 pm The latest generation Milwaukee M12 Fuel (brushless) drill/driver kit is the best thing since sliced bread.

You’ll be drilling dimensional lumber, sheet metal with ease, and driving the entire range of fasteners and lag bolts with zero issues.

The weight and size benefits against an 18v system are significant.

Don’t let the voltage rating fool you. The power tools we have available today are modern miracles.

I own Dewalt and Makita tools, and 18V counterparts as well and am satisfied all around. But Milwaukee’s 12V ecosystem is a gamechanger.

Tools don’t get used by the average homeowner when they are a pain to lug around and or set up. The m12 fuel system addresses this.
This is the right answer. The weight difference for the M12 is a big deal. If you were doing construction or needed a cordless circular saw, you could do the 18v. But for a drill/driver, M12 is perfect.

I would recommended a corded jig saw however. You're not going to use it all around the house.

An overhead extension reel makes access for corded tools really convenient and less of a trip hazard. Rockler makes a nice one.
leftcoaster
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by leftcoaster »

BTW, in my town we have a Tool Lending Library (part of the public library). It's fantastic as you can check out, for free, less frequently used tools, like a bunch of extra pipe clamps and a heavier duty drill you could use for concrete and big lag screws on the rare occasions where that could come up. They even have house jacks and long ladders that I would not want to store :).

Home Depot has some rental options for some of these items.

Highly recommend lobbying your public library to add tools!
Ramjet
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Ramjet »

squirm wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:40 pm
Ramjet wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:22 pm RIDGID has a brushless driver/drill combo package at Home Depot with a lifetime warranty. They work great. Fantastic line up for their battery operated power tools. I got into woodworking last year when Covid started. It's a great hobby. It's unfortunate lumbar prices are so high right now though
This^^^
Just get the Ridgid, lifetime warranty covers (LSA) the tool and the battery. No other manufacture offers this and Ridgid has quality tools.

I've had Ridgid tools for many years (brushed and brushless) with LSA you don't worry if it breaks (I've had one tool where the gear stripped, Ridgid fixed it in two weeks).
Just make sure you register!
hnd
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by hnd »

i run milwaukee for pretty much everything. i upgraded from craftsman about 10 years ago. a good friend works for a factory supplier, everything from power tools to drill bits, and all that crap. he said walk into most shops and you will likely see mostly milwaukee. he said dewalt and milwaukee are about equal as far as the abuse they can take, but milwaukee's warranty is better. he said makita and rigid are next as far as quality goes but rigid has a great warranty too.

i run milwaukee yard tools as well. and am amassing quite a few nailers.

brushless all the way regardless of what you choose.
tredd351
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by tredd351 »

Being experienced at wood and gear I would suggest Milwalkee or Makita. DeWalt has too many different battery configs. Rigid is also a solid set. My Makitas - brushless - are amazing...

From a pro
Luke Duke
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by Luke Duke »

kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
alfaspider
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by alfaspider »

Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
Additionally, I think you are more likely to be stymied by power limitations with an impact driver than a drill unless you think you are going to drill really big holes on a regular basis or are drilling thicker metal. Only thing my Milwaukee brushed drill has had issue with was a large hole saw through hardiboard siding. It eventually made it through, but wasn't happy.
wfrobinette
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by wfrobinette »

I went Ryobi but I already had an investment in batteries and such. If I was starting from scratch I'd be all over this

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M ... /312173072
wfrobinette
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by wfrobinette »

hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:14 am i run milwaukee for pretty much everything. i upgraded from craftsman about 10 years ago. a good friend works for a factory supplier, everything from power tools to drill bits, and all that crap. he said walk into most shops and you will likely see mostly milwaukee. he said dewalt and milwaukee are about equal as far as the abuse they can take, but milwaukee's warranty is better. he said makita and rigid are next as far as quality goes but rigid has a great warranty too.

i run milwaukee yard tools as well. and am amassing quite a few nailers.

brushless all the way regardless of what you choose.
I've found the Ego yard stuff to be far superior to any other stuff on the market. 18V is a joke when it comes to trimmers and blowers unless you live on a postage stamp.
hnd
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by hnd »

wfrobinette wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 pm
hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:14 am i run milwaukee for pretty much everything. i upgraded from craftsman about 10 years ago. a good friend works for a factory supplier, everything from power tools to drill bits, and all that crap. he said walk into most shops and you will likely see mostly milwaukee. he said dewalt and milwaukee are about equal as far as the abuse they can take, but milwaukee's warranty is better. he said makita and rigid are next as far as quality goes but rigid has a great warranty too.

i run milwaukee yard tools as well. and am amassing quite a few nailers.

brushless all the way regardless of what you choose.
I've found the Ego yard stuff to be far superior to any other stuff on the market. 18V is a joke when it comes to trimmers and blowers unless you live on a postage stamp.
5 acres. run a milwaukee blower on a 100' driveway and the trimmer/edger/limb saw with no issue on 12AH batteries with no issue.
alfaspider
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by alfaspider »

hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:04 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 pm
hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:14 am i run milwaukee for pretty much everything. i upgraded from craftsman about 10 years ago. a good friend works for a factory supplier, everything from power tools to drill bits, and all that crap. he said walk into most shops and you will likely see mostly milwaukee. he said dewalt and milwaukee are about equal as far as the abuse they can take, but milwaukee's warranty is better. he said makita and rigid are next as far as quality goes but rigid has a great warranty too.

i run milwaukee yard tools as well. and am amassing quite a few nailers.

brushless all the way regardless of what you choose.
I've found the Ego yard stuff to be far superior to any other stuff on the market. 18V is a joke when it comes to trimmers and blowers unless you live on a postage stamp.
5 acres. run a milwaukee blower on a 100' driveway and the trimmer/edger/limb saw with no issue on 12AH batteries with no issue.
Not all 18v systems are created equal. It's not just the voltage that matters. Milwaukee has much better 18v blowers and the like that others, and you are shelling out a lot for those big batteries. I use a Milwaukee 18v blower as well, but I only have 4ah batteries. It works OK for clearing the driveway/walkways/patio, but it's not sufficient if I wanted to clear my whole 1/2 acre.
hnd
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by hnd »

alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:04 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 pm
hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:14 am i run milwaukee for pretty much everything. i upgraded from craftsman about 10 years ago. a good friend works for a factory supplier, everything from power tools to drill bits, and all that crap. he said walk into most shops and you will likely see mostly milwaukee. he said dewalt and milwaukee are about equal as far as the abuse they can take, but milwaukee's warranty is better. he said makita and rigid are next as far as quality goes but rigid has a great warranty too.

i run milwaukee yard tools as well. and am amassing quite a few nailers.

brushless all the way regardless of what you choose.
I've found the Ego yard stuff to be far superior to any other stuff on the market. 18V is a joke when it comes to trimmers and blowers unless you live on a postage stamp.
5 acres. run a milwaukee blower on a 100' driveway and the trimmer/edger/limb saw with no issue on 12AH batteries with no issue.
Not all 18v systems are created equal. It's not just the voltage that matters. Milwaukee has much better 18v blowers and the like that others, and you are shelling out a lot for those big batteries. I use a Milwaukee 18v blower as well, but I only have 4ah batteries. It works OK for clearing the driveway/walkways/patio, but it's not sufficient if I wanted to clear my whole 1/2 acre.
the power difference is noticable from 4AH to 12AH. I have 2 12AH and 1 9.0. 1 12AH came in a black friday deal for free and the other 12 and 9 i bought in a back alley fb marketplace deal where i got both for 150. i'm almost certain they were hot, but how dare I judge that man's character!
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kevinf
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by kevinf »

Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
I never said anything about frequency of use. Drills tend to do driver duty better than drivers do drill duty as well. The drill will happily accept hex driver shanks, most drivers are not so keen on smooth drill shanks.
alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:45 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
Additionally, I think you are more likely to be stymied by power limitations with an impact driver than a drill unless you think you are going to drill really big holes on a regular basis or are drilling thicker metal. Only thing my Milwaukee brushed drill has had issue with was a large hole saw through hardiboard siding. It eventually made it through, but wasn't happy.
If my driver stops driving, I just pull out the ratchet, wrench, or screwdriver and finish it. If my drill stops drilling, I don't generally have a hand-drill nearby.
Last edited by kevinf on Tue May 18, 2021 3:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
squirm
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by squirm »

Ramjet wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:25 pm
jdv01 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:29 pm What is really interesting is looking at who makes what tools. Milwaukee/Rigid/Ryobi/Hart all made by TTI.
I think TTI is licensed to sell Ridgid but doesn't make them
TTI makes Ridgid power tools.
alfaspider
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by alfaspider »

kevinf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:27 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
I never said anything about frequency of use.
alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:45 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
Additionally, I think you are more likely to be stymied by power limitations with an impact driver than a drill unless you think you are going to drill really big holes on a regular basis or are drilling thicker metal. Only thing my Milwaukee brushed drill has had issue with was a large hole saw through hardiboard siding. It eventually made it through, but wasn't happy.
If my driver stops driving, I just pull out the ratchet, wrench, or screwdriver and finish it. If my drill stops drilling, I don't generally have a hand-drill nearby.
At least with metal, you use lubrication and slow speeds. Few people are going to have drilling needs that are beyond the capabilities of a brushed cordless drill.
squirm
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by squirm »

hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:43 pm
alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:04 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 pm
hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:14 am i run milwaukee for pretty much everything. i upgraded from craftsman about 10 years ago. a good friend works for a factory supplier, everything from power tools to drill bits, and all that crap. he said walk into most shops and you will likely see mostly milwaukee. he said dewalt and milwaukee are about equal as far as the abuse they can take, but milwaukee's warranty is better. he said makita and rigid are next as far as quality goes but rigid has a great warranty too.

i run milwaukee yard tools as well. and am amassing quite a few nailers.

brushless all the way regardless of what you choose.
I've found the Ego yard stuff to be far superior to any other stuff on the market. 18V is a joke when it comes to trimmers and blowers unless you live on a postage stamp.
5 acres. run a milwaukee blower on a 100' driveway and the trimmer/edger/limb saw with no issue on 12AH batteries with no issue.
Not all 18v systems are created equal. It's not just the voltage that matters. Milwaukee has much better 18v blowers and the like that others, and you are shelling out a lot for those big batteries. I use a Milwaukee 18v blower as well, but I only have 4ah batteries. It works OK for clearing the driveway/walkways/patio, but it's not sufficient if I wanted to clear my whole 1/2 acre.
the power difference is noticable from 4AH to 12AH. I have 2 12AH and 1 9.0. 1 12AH came in a black friday deal for free and the other 12 and 9 i bought in a back alley fb marketplace deal where i got both for 150. i'm almost certain they were hot, but how dare I judge that man's character!
The 4ah probably uses a single stack, above that they start using two or more battery stacks in parallel, which offers more current, thus more power.
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kevinf
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by kevinf »

alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:37 pm
kevinf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:27 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
I never said anything about frequency of use.
alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:45 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
Additionally, I think you are more likely to be stymied by power limitations with an impact driver than a drill unless you think you are going to drill really big holes on a regular basis or are drilling thicker metal. Only thing my Milwaukee brushed drill has had issue with was a large hole saw through hardiboard siding. It eventually made it through, but wasn't happy.
If my driver stops driving, I just pull out the ratchet, wrench, or screwdriver and finish it. If my drill stops drilling, I don't generally have a hand-drill nearby.
At least with metal, you use lubrication and slow speeds. Few people are going to have drilling needs that are beyond the capabilities of a brushed cordless drill.
You did. Hole saws and forstner bits aren't super specialized tools. But they really don't work well without a drill. Most fasteners aren't a problem without a driver.

A high quality drill is the practical answer if going high end for both isn't on the table.
alfaspider
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by alfaspider »

kevinf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:59 pm
alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:37 pm
kevinf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:27 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:35 pm https://www.protoolreviews.com/brushed- ... ss-motors/

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
I never said anything about frequency of use.
alfaspider wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:45 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:22 pm

I probably use my impact driver at least 5x more than I use my drill.
Additionally, I think you are more likely to be stymied by power limitations with an impact driver than a drill unless you think you are going to drill really big holes on a regular basis or are drilling thicker metal. Only thing my Milwaukee brushed drill has had issue with was a large hole saw through hardiboard siding. It eventually made it through, but wasn't happy.
If my driver stops driving, I just pull out the ratchet, wrench, or screwdriver and finish it. If my drill stops drilling, I don't generally have a hand-drill nearby.
At least with metal, you use lubrication and slow speeds. Few people are going to have drilling needs that are beyond the capabilities of a brushed cordless drill.
You did. Hole saws and forstner bits aren't super specialized tools. But they really don't work well without a drill. Most fasteners aren't a problem without a driver.

A high quality drill is the practical answer if going high end for both isn't on the table.
Hole saws through hardiboard aren't that common (and it was made worse by an uneven surface), and the brushed motor did handle it. But I suppose you need to evaluate your personal needs and what holes you are likely to drill.

An issue I've faced with my more underpowered driver is stripped fasteners. A stalling driver is more likely to strip things.
wfrobinette
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by wfrobinette »

hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:04 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 pm
hnd wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:14 am i run milwaukee for pretty much everything. i upgraded from craftsman about 10 years ago. a good friend works for a factory supplier, everything from power tools to drill bits, and all that crap. he said walk into most shops and you will likely see mostly milwaukee. he said dewalt and milwaukee are about equal as far as the abuse they can take, but milwaukee's warranty is better. he said makita and rigid are next as far as quality goes but rigid has a great warranty too.

i run milwaukee yard tools as well. and am amassing quite a few nailers.

brushless all the way regardless of what you choose.
I've found the Ego yard stuff to be far superior to any other stuff on the market. 18V is a joke when it comes to trimmers and blowers unless you live on a postage stamp.
5 acres. run a milwaukee blower on a 100' driveway and the trimmer/edger/limb saw with no issue on 12AH batteries with no issue.
12AH? holy smokes. The 18V system just can't generate the same power that the 56V can. The 18V struggles to get though extremely thick Bermuda where the 56V cuts it with ease and I get about a 10 minutes in time savings for my lawn. The 18V would chew up a 4 AH battery in 1.25 sessions. Where as the the 56V gets me 3 sessions on 5 AH

The 56V blower is capable of producing 650CFM and 180mph force which is about 50% more power than the 18v. Sure my 18V could blow leaves but I'm getting the same work done in half the time with a 1.5 5AH batteries vs 3 4AH 18v.

Now bring a lawnmower into the equation and an 18V couldn't even cut grass.
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kevinf
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Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by kevinf »

kevinf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:27 pm Drills tend to do driver duty better than drivers do drill duty as well. The drill will happily accept hex driver shanks, most drivers are not so keen on smooth drill shanks.

The drill is more versatile and more likely to see sustained torque loads, I'd go for a higher quality drill over an impact driver.
Project Farm put out a fairly topical video today comparing drills, both brushed and brushless. Also compared; every drill versus the Milwaukee Fuel M18 impact driver for driving lag bolts. The drills beat the impact driver :beer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpjBJ8aQ3NE
jharkin
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Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Brushed vs brushless drill/impact driver

Post by jharkin »

The main advantage of the brushless versions is longer battery life.. Even the brushed tools with lithium batteries have tremendous power and battery life vs. back when we used nicad powered and corded tools. I guess the "explosion" thing is possible theoretically but I have literally never heard of somebody starting a fire from sparks in a cordless drill.


I have a lot of DeWalt brushed 20v max tools... Some of the battery packs are going on 10 years old and still work ok (but noticeably shorter run time). A couple of my more recent purchases are brushless. Brushless helps but I found that the brand new fresh battery packs vs. old tired ones make more of a difference in the real world. I am starting to work on phasing out my gas yard tools for DeWalt as well (20v and 60v) in order to standardize on one battery system. The yard stuff is almost all brushless and I don't see the big price differential.

If the price differential is small and/or you are a power user who will be putting hours a day on these tools I would go for all brushless. For an average homeowner you probably wont ever notice the difference.
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