Did I get shilled on Ebay?

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Caduceus
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Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Caduceus »

I waited until the last 15 seconds to place a bid on a silver gelatin vintage photograph on Ebay. The current bid from one person was $8. I put in a maximum of $100 (the photo was personally important to me, but I could not see how it could be valuable to anyone else), and then 2 seconds from the close of bidding, a third bidder puts in a bid of $90! So I ended up winning, which I'm happy about, but also curious if I got shilled.

This is not a photograph that seems like it's worth $90 to anyone except my family (because it shows my ancestors). This is also the only item on the seller's Ebay page that has gone for more than $20, so it's quite a bit out of the norm.

I'm curious if this is something that those of you who've bought things on Ebay have experienced - sudden massive increases in prices in the last seconds of bidding. Would you recommend bidding even later, like with 3 seconds to go? To avoid relaying my interest, essentially.

I can't help but wonder if there are ways that sellers "cheat" to see buyers' true maximum bids and then artificially enter closing bids to jack up the final sales prices.
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ClevrChico
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by ClevrChico »

I don't believe there's a way for sellers to see your maximum bid. It's likely that the other bidder used a sniping service and still lost. One thing that I've learned on Ebay, is that there is a buyer for almost anything.
dukeblue219
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by dukeblue219 »

Nobody can cheat and see your max bid, but a seller could have additional accounts used to bid up the item. If they go too high, well, then all they've done is sell it to themselves (this isn't allowed but it happens) . They can just relist and try again. From your standpoint you placed a bid that you were willing to pay and you won; I'd call it a day.

As for faster bid sniping, there are services that do this automatically. You'll never be able to beat them manually. It's just par for the course on eBay.
ensign_lee
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by ensign_lee »

No way, especially if you were sniping the item too.

There is no reasonable way in 15 seconds that someone saw you bid, figured out you bid really high, then bid 90% of what you bid. 15 seconds. It's just not possible.

You ran into another sniper and he valued it a little less than you did.
surfstar
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by surfstar »

Sniping.

Yes, bid as high as you want to go, but at the very last second - if you want the best chance for the best price.

If it was only a single, other bid for $90, it doesn't seem like shilling offhand. If it was a few lower bids to ramp the price up, maybe.
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StevieG72
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by StevieG72 »

It is possible that the $8 bidder had a maximum bid in the system and your bid simply pushed the price up over that max.
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Brianmcg321
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Brianmcg321 »

StevieG72 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:54 am It is possible that the $8 bidder had a maximum bid in the system and your bid simply pushed the price up over that max.
This.

This is how the ebay system works.
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Kenkat
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Kenkat »

Brianmcg321 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:30 am
StevieG72 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:54 am It is possible that the $8 bidder had a maximum bid in the system and your bid simply pushed the price up over that max.
This.

This is how the ebay system works.
There would not have been the 13 second difference from the OP’s bid at 15 seconds and the snipe at 2 seconds in this case, however.

I’d say that the OP survived a snipe bid as well. The final snipe bid could still have been a shill bid - you can look at the bidder and see other auctions they bid on. A buyer who has bid mostly on a particular seller’s auctions could be a shill bidder.

I usually manually snipe but wait until about 5-6 seconds before auction end to reduce someone else seeing the bid and taking action. Ultimately you got the item for less than your maximum price so I wouldn’t spend too much time worrying about it.
Katietsu
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Katietsu »

I rarely buy on ebay. But when I do, I never bid until the last 15 seconds. It just takes you and one other bidder to move the price.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by JonnyDVM »

Katietsu wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:03 am I rarely buy on ebay. But when I do, I never bid until the last 15 seconds. It just takes you and one other bidder to move the price.
15 seconds is too many. You got to cut it closer next time. I usually do 10 seconds or less. That’s a serious reply. 8-)

As other have said no malfeasance. You ran into a sniper
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JoMoney
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by JoMoney »

That's just how auctions work.
If you've ever watched sports betting lines/point spreads on a game, it's pretty amazing how regularly they can get right to the limit of the margin and not over ...
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celia
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by celia »

I wouldn’t be surprised if a (distant?) relative bid on it too. Did you mention it to anyone that you wanted it?

Or maybe your spouse/ significant other wanted to surprise you for your birthday...
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JPH
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by JPH »

Would this give you the information you are seeking? https://stevemorse.org/ebay/bidhistory.php
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ballons
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by ballons »

Caduceus wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:28 am This is not a photograph that seems like it's worth $90 to anyone except my family (because it shows my ancestors).
There is a possibility that the other bidder was in fact someone from your family.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by yules »

ballons wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:21 pm
Caduceus wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:28 am This is not a photograph that seems like it's worth $90 to anyone except my family (because it shows my ancestors).
There is a possibility that the other bidder was in fact someone from your family.
HAHAHA! That would be an awesome plot twist! Thanks for the laugh!

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THY4373
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by THY4373 »

I tend to agree with those saying you weren't shilled. The last minute timing and huge jump in price probably means somebody else wanted it nearly as badly as you. Back when I used to buy a lot on Ebay and physical auctions I learned you sometimes get really surprised by what things may go for both cheaper and more expensive. Once I went to a local auction that had photographs that were taken by a somewhat distantly related ancestor. The had pretty low expected prices amounting to a few dollars to a few tens of dollars for stacks of the photos. I was mildly interested so I went to see if I could get some. They started going for $100s of dollars per stack of photos and I think a few even hit close to a $1000. Way more than I was willing to pay.
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windaar
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by windaar »

Snipe service I use defaults to 10 seconds. You can make it less but at some point it gets risky and you might miss a bid deadline.
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Elric
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Elric »

I concur with those saying that it's most likely just sniping. I was on the losing side twice over several years for a relatively rare item even using a sniping service, as others had a higher max. Just this year I finally got one of the items by using "buy it now" when another one came up, and paying more than I'd been willing before, but about what the two auctions had gone for. For each auction, the price went up dramatically on the last few minutes.
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Caduceus
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Caduceus »

For those who bid under 10 seconds, have you had any accidents before? Like Ebay insisting you sign out and log in again before being able to place a bid (which means you'll miss the item unless you can do that in 10 seconds!). Or the system not recognizing your bid because you cut it too close to the line (it happened to me once - I thought I placed a bid at the 2-second mark, but it never got through.)

The whole thing is just stressful. I rarely buy items on Ebay ... maybe just a couple of times a year and prefer Buy It Now.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

Caduceus wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:55 am For those who bid under 10 seconds, have you had any accidents before? Like Ebay insisting you sign out and log in again before being able to place a bid (which means you'll miss the item unless you can do that in 10 seconds!). Or the system not recognizing your bid because you cut it too close to the line (it happened to me once - I thought I placed a bid at the 2-second mark, but it never got through.)

The whole thing is just stressful. I rarely buy items on Ebay ... maybe just a couple of times a year and prefer Buy It Now.
I use a service called esnipe.com when I want to snipe. I can set my bid amount and when I want it placed (usually about 6 seconds before the end) at any time prior to the auction ending and they place my bid at my requested time. I don't think I have ever had this service fail to place my bid at the requested time. I've been using it for many, many years- like 15. I don't remember what they charge- seems like years ago you had to buy points and maybe they only charged the points if I won but I haven't paid any fees for years now- maybe I have a large stash of old points or something. At this point, most of my purchases use buy it now and I probably only snipe a couple of times a year.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by JonnyDVM »

Caduceus wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:55 am For those who bid under 10 seconds, have you had any accidents before? Like Ebay insisting you sign out and log in again before being able to place a bid (which means you'll miss the item unless you can do that in 10 seconds!). Or the system not recognizing your bid because you cut it too close to the line (it happened to me once - I thought I placed a bid at the 2-second mark, but it never got through.)

The whole thing is just stressful. I rarely buy items on Ebay ... maybe just a couple of times a year and prefer Buy It Now.
Sure. The “sign in again” thing happens to you once and you learn your lesson. The hard way is usually the best way to learn things. Now I make damn sure I’m signed in. Like you, I also tend to favor buy it now, but many items you can get excellent deals by bidding late. I don’t win every auction, but it definitely gives an adrenaline rush when you snag a great deal with a perfectly timed last second bid.
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David Jay
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by David Jay »

Caduceus wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:28 am I can't help but wonder if there are ways that sellers "cheat" to see buyers' true maximum bids and then artificially enter closing bids to jack up the final sales prices.
You can view the bid history for the item. If it alternates between you and the original $8 bidder, then that other bidder bid perhaps $80 (or $85 - I don’t remember what the bid increment is in the high single digits) and when you bid $90 the automatic system alternated bids.

If there is a different ID at $80 then it was an attempted “snipe”. All very legal but a different strategy.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by pshonore »

Some auction sites (but obviously not Ebay) automatically extend the auction end time by a fixed amount (say 10 minutes) if a bid is received in the last 5 minutes of the auction. That tends to eliminate sniping. Ebay has changed quite a bit over the years. I remember when the bidders email address was shown to all rather than some cryptic code. Guess that caused too many emails to sellers and buyers trying to transact outside of Ebay as well as privacy concerns. Should also be interesting to see how the new 1099K $600 limit (effective in 2022) effects listings.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by RickBoglehead »

I've been an Ebay member since 1999, although I rarely use it (I did use it back then). Recently, a local business closed and had an online auction. There were thousands of items, many of them things I'd want (they made products sold in home improvement stores). I excitedly made a list, then went to the viewing day, all masked and social distanced. Then I bid, and watched the auction carefully. I envisioned buying a half dozen or more items at great discounts to retail prices, and bid on about a dozen items.

Fast forward a day, auction's over. I schedule a time to pick up the one item I won, for $16 plus fees, and tax. :oops:

What a waste of time.
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z91
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by z91 »

Nope. Sniping has, and always will be a way to get a great deal. You're not the only one. The person putting in $90 is probably wondering how they lost.

There are tons of options on how to snipe on eBay. Doesn't matter what time the auction is ending, it'll get sniped if there are people that want it badly enough.
3of10
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by 3of10 »

Caduceus wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:55 am For those who bid under 10 seconds, have you had any accidents before? Like Ebay insisting you sign out and log in again before being able to place a bid (which means you'll miss the item unless you can do that in 10 seconds!). Or the system not recognizing your bid because you cut it too close to the line (it happened to me once - I thought I placed a bid at the 2-second mark, but it never got through.)

The whole thing is just stressful. I rarely buy items on Ebay ... maybe just a couple of times a year and prefer Buy It Now.
You have to know your pc/laptop and internet speed in order to determine the latest you can place your bid. I had a slow wifi speed, so I did my ebay bidding using my ethernet connection and was able to get down to 5-7 secs before the bidding ended. I know about the sniping services and machines, so I don't get upset if I lose out to them at the last second.

One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
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Nyc10036
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Nyc10036 »

3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
onourway
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by onourway »

Nyc10036 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
Only if the bid has exceeded the BIN price.
Marseille07
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Marseille07 »

pshonore wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:22 am Some auction sites (but obviously not Ebay) automatically extend the auction end time by a fixed amount (say 10 minutes) if a bid is received in the last 5 minutes of the auction. That tends to eliminate sniping. Ebay has changed quite a bit over the years. I remember when the bidders email address was shown to all rather than some cryptic code. Guess that caused too many emails to sellers and buyers trying to transact outside of Ebay as well as privacy concerns. Should also be interesting to see how the new 1099K $600 limit (effective in 2022) effects listings.
Yeah, I don't know why they don't implement this. There's almost no downside to the sellers, as bids are going to the highest extent possible; and eBay themselves would earn higher fee per transaction, as well as eliminating sniping / shilling bid woes like discussed here.
onourway
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by onourway »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:57 am
pshonore wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:22 am Some auction sites (but obviously not Ebay) automatically extend the auction end time by a fixed amount (say 10 minutes) if a bid is received in the last 5 minutes of the auction. That tends to eliminate sniping. Ebay has changed quite a bit over the years. I remember when the bidders email address was shown to all rather than some cryptic code. Guess that caused too many emails to sellers and buyers trying to transact outside of Ebay as well as privacy concerns. Should also be interesting to see how the new 1099K $600 limit (effective in 2022) effects listings.
Yeah, I don't know why they don't implement this. There's almost no downside to the sellers, as bids are going to the highest extent possible; and eBay themselves would earn higher fee per transaction, as well as eliminating sniping / shilling bid woes like discussed here.
As a buyer I strongly dislike those kind of auctions, one, because it completely removes a lot of the excitement of bidding on an item as an auction can be extended almost indefinitely - and Ebay certainly plays up this aspect of their platform, and two and most importantly, it generally drives up the price of things as people will irrationally convince themselves to bid things above their value if given time to re-consider their bids. Both of these also tend to prevent people from feeling like they can get a 'deal' - again, a major part of Ebay's platform.

I remember a number of early auction sites used this format and I really disliked it. I would be far less likely to use Ebay if they switched.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Coburn »

Caduceus wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:55 am For those who bid under 10 seconds, have you had any accidents before? Like Ebay insisting you sign out and log in again before being able to place a bid (which means you'll miss the item unless you can do that in 10 seconds!). Or the system not recognizing your bid because you cut it too close to the line (it happened to me once - I thought I placed a bid at the 2-second mark, but it never got through.)
Plenty of mishaps when I was a heavy eBay buyer...""live by the sword, die by the sword", right?! So yes, I sniped and there were more than a few occasions when I wasn't able to get my bid in before auctions closed.

I read in a prior post you collect books and believe me, back in the early days of eBay (circa before 1999)...many 'collectibles' sellers flocked and thrived on eBay. Those were the best of times...pulps were one of the genres I collected (as well as a few others) and pickings were great.

Don't really go there now for anything...last purchase was hair clippers early in the pandemic.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Elric »

IowaFarmBoy wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:55 am
Caduceus wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:55 am The whole thing is just stressful. I rarely buy items on Ebay ... maybe just a couple of times a year and prefer Buy It Now.
I use a service called esnipe.com when I want to snipe. I can set my bid amount and when I want it placed (usually about 6 seconds before the end) at any time prior to the auction ending and they place my bid at my requested time. I don't think I have ever had this service fail to place my bid at the requested time. I've been using it for many, many years- like 15. I don't remember what they charge- seems like years ago you had to buy points and maybe they only charged the points if I won but I haven't paid any fees for years now- maybe I have a large stash of old points or something. At this point, most of my purchases use buy it now and I probably only snipe a couple of times a year.
Trying to manually get in during the last few seconds seems both stressful and unlikely to succeed v. automated snipers. I use Gixen, which has a free as well as paid version, and haven't had any problems. Bids go in during the last 5 seconds. Even with automation, glitches can happen, but the few times I've used it I haven't ever had the problem (although I've been outbid by folks with a greater willingness to pay). If you want to go the auction route rather than "buy it now," a sniper service is the only way to go.
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3of10
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by 3of10 »

Nyc10036 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
The ones I deal with is the "Buy It Now" that doesn't involve bidding. It is the only option. Once I click on the BIN button, it goes straight to payment. I also will go after items that use "Best Offer". I'll send a lower offer than what's listed, but not low enough to offend the seller.
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Nyc10036
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Nyc10036 »

3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:12 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
The ones I deal with is the "Buy It Now" that doesn't involve bidding. It is the only option. Once I click on the BIN button, it goes straight to payment. I also will go after items that use "Best Offer". I'll send a lower offer than what's listed, but not low enough to offend the seller.
I see that there is someone else that does what I do. :happy
themesrob
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by themesrob »

something else you can do to satisfy your curiosity is to click on the other bidder's anonymized profile. You won't see very much, but you should be able to see a stat entitled "% bid activity with the seller" or something along the lines. if that number is 100% or something close to it, you may have found the seller's shill account.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by boomer_techie »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:57 am
pshonore wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:22 am Some auction sites (but obviously not Ebay) automatically extend the auction end time by a fixed amount (say 10 minutes) if a bid is received in the last 5 minutes of the auction.
Yeah, I don't know why they don't implement this. There's almost no downside to the sellers, as bids are going to the highest extent possible; and eBay themselves would earn higher fee per transaction, as well as eliminating sniping / shilling bid woes like discussed here.
Extending the end time is horrible. It will result in lower sale prices. The proper (game theory) method of bidding on auctions that extend is to place the lowest possible bid as close as possible to the time limit. Repeat this until you are in the lead. Hold steady if in the lead. Basically you are hoping that your competitors get bored or are unable to stay up until 4AM. Essentially, you never bid your max unless that's what it took to get into the lead.
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by dukeblue219 »

onourway wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:04 am
Nyc10036 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
Only if the bid has exceeded the BIN price.
Did that recently change? It hasn't been the case before. BIN should disappear when bids exceed Reserve if it exists, or 50% of BIN for four special categories.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listi ... ng-buy-now
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by onourway »

dukeblue219 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:03 am
onourway wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:04 am
Nyc10036 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
Only if the bid has exceeded the BIN price.
Did that recently change? It hasn't been the case before. BIN should disappear when bids exceed Reserve if it exists, or 50% of BIN for four special categories.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listi ... ng-buy-now
No, I'm sure that's still the case and I just mis-spoke.
Marseille07
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Marseille07 »

boomer_techie wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:55 am Extending the end time is horrible. It will result in lower sale prices. The proper (game theory) method of bidding on auctions that extend is to place the lowest possible bid as close as possible to the time limit. Repeat this until you are in the lead. Hold steady if in the lead. Basically you are hoping that your competitors get bored or are unable to stay up until 4AM. Essentially, you never bid your max unless that's what it took to get into the lead.
Not following your logic. Assuming $5 increments, say my opponent is the highest bidder at $10 but their max is $100. I can keep bidding but at the end of the day, I need to bid $105 or higher to take the lead. If the opponent comes back with $150, they would lead the auction at $110 but I need to bid $155 to retake the lead.

The price keeps rising pretty quickly.
illumination
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by illumination »

Gixen is a free sniping service, I recommend using it for EVERY Ebay auction.

You will get shilled on Ebay, even on small, mundane transactions, people will try it. You can spot it a mile away, but the end of the day, Ebay just doesn't care. In fact, they make more money when people shill bid as it drives the price up and they get a larger amount.
3of10
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by 3of10 »

Nyc10036 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:23 pm
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:12 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
The ones I deal with is the "Buy It Now" that doesn't involve bidding. It is the only option. Once I click on the BIN button, it goes straight to payment. I also will go after items that use "Best Offer". I'll send a lower offer than what's listed, but not low enough to offend the seller.
I see that there is someone else that does what I do. :happy
Yep. In my early days with ebay, I was heavy into the bidding. But I grew tired of counting down the days/hours for the bidding to end. As the years went by, the BIN and "Best Offers" grew more appealing.
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
Nyc10036
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Nyc10036 »

3of10 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:28 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:23 pm
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:12 pm
Nyc10036 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am
3of10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:04 am One thing to note, always check the "buy it now" for the item before, and while bidding. There have been a few times when the "buy it now" price was lower than the item I was bidding on. I've grown weary of waiting on the days for the bid to end, and now do most of my ebay transactions using the lowest "buy it now" price. I also check to make sure it is a reputable seller (usually 95%-100% sat rating).
Doesn't the Buy It Now go away once there is a bid?

Like you I have lost patience with auctions.
I sort for items that offer Buy It Now and Newly Listed.
The ones I deal with is the "Buy It Now" that doesn't involve bidding. It is the only option. Once I click on the BIN button, it goes straight to payment. I also will go after items that use "Best Offer". I'll send a lower offer than what's listed, but not low enough to offend the seller.
I see that there is someone else that does what I do. :happy
Yep. In my early days with ebay, I was heavy into the bidding. But I grew tired of counting down the days/hours for the bidding to end. As the years went by, the BIN and "Best Offers" grew more appealing.
If I do bid, I will put in my maximum bid and be done with it.
I will also look at auctions that are ending soon. Even then I will put in my maximum bid and be done with it.

But usually I have no patience and I will only do Buy It Now.

.
boomer_techie
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by boomer_techie »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:14 am Not following your logic. Assuming $5 increments, say my opponent is the highest bidder at $10 but their max is $100. I can keep bidding but at the end of the day, I need to bid $105 or higher to take the lead. If the opponent comes back with $150, they would lead the auction at $110 but I need to bid $155 to retake the lead.
The auction is scheduled to end at 8PM. You see their bid at $10. In the last minute, you (or your bidding service) try $15. The end time is now 8:10PM. Eighteen more bids, i.e. eighteen more time extensions, and you've gotten to $105 with an end time of 11:10PM. Your competitor has gone to bed and never puts in the $150 bid. Or your competitor has a snipe misfire and doesn't make the $150 bid in time.

An auction with time extensions, with two bidders who are bidding optimally, will get to the same final point as an auction with a hard deadline. So extensions are no better for the seller, and can be worse if a bidder isn't paying attention.
Marseille07
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Marseille07 »

boomer_techie wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:11 am
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:14 am Not following your logic. Assuming $5 increments, say my opponent is the highest bidder at $10 but their max is $100. I can keep bidding but at the end of the day, I need to bid $105 or higher to take the lead. If the opponent comes back with $150, they would lead the auction at $110 but I need to bid $155 to retake the lead.
The auction is scheduled to end at 8PM. You see their bid at $10. In the last minute, you (or your bidding service) try $15. The end time is now 8:10PM. Eighteen more bids, i.e. eighteen more time extensions, and you've gotten to $105 with an end time of 11:10PM. Your competitor has gone to bed and never puts in the $150 bid. Or your competitor has a snipe misfire and doesn't make the $150 bid in time.

An auction with time extensions, with two bidders who are bidding optimally, will get to the same final point as an auction with a hard deadline. So extensions are no better for the seller, and can be worse if a bidder isn't paying attention.
You're describing a situation where it would take the longest, and the opponent isn't paying any attention. That's not quite a realistic scenario, since the opponent is also trying to win the auction.

In the event you're describing, the opponent would update their max to $150 before they go to bed, rather than leaving it at $100 the whole time and letting you win at $105 at 11:10PM. The opponent doesn't even have to wait until 11:10PM to do so; they can raise the max at any time without impacting the current price so long as they're leading the auction.
boomer_techie
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by boomer_techie »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 am In the event you're describing, the opponent would update their max to $150 before they go to bed, rather than leaving it at $100 the whole time and letting you win at $105 at 11:10PM. The opponent doesn't even have to wait until 11:10PM to do so; they can raise the max at any time without impacting the current price so long as they're leading the auction.
Your $5 increment isn't realistic. What if it is 50 cents? Now instead of three hours of extensions, it takes 30 hours. The point is that the ending time can get postponed a long time - until an inconvenient time.

Sure, the opponent may update their bid. But many people have no idea about their max bid until they are challenged. What if, before going to bed, the person saw the auction at $50 and decided that their $100 bid was enough? Decided to not figure out their max bid.

Bigger point is that auction extensions accomplish nothing more than a hard deadline auction. They simply change the game theory optimal bidding style from sniping to nibbling. And oh, the ending time can be unknown or inconvenient. This is why sites that have extensions are typically market failures.
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

Caduceus wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:55 am For those who bid under 10 seconds, have you had any accidents before? Like Ebay insisting you sign out and log in again before being able to place a bid (which means you'll miss the item unless you can do that in 10 seconds!). Or the system not recognizing your bid because you cut it too close to the line (it happened to me once - I thought I placed a bid at the 2-second mark, but it never got through.)

The whole thing is just stressful. I rarely buy items on Ebay ... maybe just a couple of times a year and prefer Buy It Now.
I always go less than 10 seconds and I’ve never had a problem using WiFi on my iPhone. Less than 5 seconds is typical. 3 seconds wouldn’t be unusual if I didn’t care if I didn’t care too much if I lost the auction. 5 seconds is more for trying to prevent from paying too much on an item I know I will win.
Last edited by Wanderingwheelz on Fri May 07, 2021 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by SmileyFace »

If you felt it was worth $100 and put in such a max bid I don't understand why you would call that "shilled". If you aren't willing to pay it, don't bid it.
Maybe you were bidding against another family member :)
namajones
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by namajones »

Caduceus wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:28 am

I can't help but wonder if there are ways that sellers "cheat" to see buyers' true maximum bids and then artificially enter closing bids to jack up the final sales prices.
No, there's not. I've sold things on eBay for over 20 years now.

Currently, there are more ways for sellers to get skrewed than buyers. That said, I use eBay as seldom as possible, either as a buyer or a seller. Sooner or later, you're going to get "shilled." Consider it a cost of doing business on that platform. My advice: if possible, stay away.
Marseille07
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by Marseille07 »

boomer_techie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:45 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 am In the event you're describing, the opponent would update their max to $150 before they go to bed, rather than leaving it at $100 the whole time and letting you win at $105 at 11:10PM. The opponent doesn't even have to wait until 11:10PM to do so; they can raise the max at any time without impacting the current price so long as they're leading the auction.
Your $5 increment isn't realistic. What if it is 50 cents? Now instead of three hours of extensions, it takes 30 hours. The point is that the ending time can get postponed a long time - until an inconvenient time.

Sure, the opponent may update their bid. But many people have no idea about their max bid until they are challenged. What if, before going to bed, the person saw the auction at $50 and decided that their $100 bid was enough? Decided to not figure out their max bid.

Bigger point is that auction extensions accomplish nothing more than a hard deadline auction. They simply change the game theory optimal bidding style from sniping to nibbling. And oh, the ending time can be unknown or inconvenient. This is why sites that have extensions are typically market failures.
I see what you're saying, but my understanding is that the time component definitely helps, because eBay style of auctions always carry the risk of running out of time, sniping malfunctions and what have you, where extension-based auctions don't have this limitation. But as you said, those auctions could get quite long.

I don't have data to back up the claims one way or the other, so I think we've reached the end of discussion here.
sureshoe
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Re: Did I get shilled on Ebay?

Post by sureshoe »

I almost never use ebay, so I completely defer to people here smarter than me on the service. However, when I do use it, I never snipe.

When I see something, my logic is this: I simply put the price in that I want to pay when I see it and don't watch it. My logic is:

1) You really aren't saving money sniping
2) It's annoying
3) Keeping the price low just keeps everyone hanging around

If there is a pinball machine that is worth say $1000 and it's listed for $200, but I'm willing to pay $600 - I just go in and put my $600 bid in rather than wait until the end. If people bid me up, they bid me up.

Am I completely wrong on this?
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