What EV to buy for 20k-25k?

[angelescrest]

I’ve been wanting to buy an EV for a long time. Looks like this June will be the time for me to do it. But what should I get?

My thoughts and considerations:

• We will have a second car, a minivan
  Hoping to spend 25k max out the door, all cash
  We usually keep cars for a very very long time, mostly for financial reasons
  Commute will be roughly 40 miles, but I will need it to do longer trips like to the city, airport, medium length weekend trips
  Might be renting a condo for a couple years with garage, and am thinking I can survive just plugging into a regular outlet which will give me 40-50 miles of charge per day. Crazy idea?
  Used in CA, avg summer high temps of 96 in our area
  Needs to be okay for two elementary aged kids (for now, middle school soon) in the back
  I prefer quieter, smooth vehicles, though don’t have much exp with EVs
  Used is fine for me, as long as it can last a long time (degradation, etc)
  Based on reviews, Leaf sounds like a great fit for me: more comfortable, with features I like, but is battery degradation a problem for long term use (10+ years)?
  Bolt sounds more practical, if not uncomfortable seats, noisier, and really ugly inside?
  Occasionally I haul lots of equipment in the back for my work
  I absolutely love Tesla, but would never envision paying for one yet

Appreciate any thoughts, as well as how to buy one. I’ve not done my research on buying new (real cost), leasing, or used (that’s all I’ve ever done). Any questions I should be considering?

[Tingting1013]

You should not keep any EV for 10 years.

You should be buying new and then selling after one year, for essentially no money out of pocket, or even a $1-2k profit.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

[squirm]

Just get the Honda Clarity PHEV. Smoking deals, you can get a Touring for like $22k after incentives. Honda quality. Roomy interior that is quiet. It's not a BEV but close enough, never worry where the next charge is either but still do 80-90% driving on electric.

[hi_there]

What about something like a Prius plugin? You can charge it and get your 40 miles or so for daily driving. However, since it also uses gas, you don't have to worry about not being able to charge it overnight, etc. Prius is one of the smoothest cars I've been in too.

[Iorek]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

[angelescrest]

You should not keep any EV for 10 years.

You should be buying new and then selling after one year, for essentially no money out of pocket, or even a $1-2k profit.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I had read you can get 4 miles an hour, but I don’t have first hand experience. 30 miles wouldn’t be enough. 40 though, yes.

[angelescrest]

Just get the Honda Clarity PHEV. Smoking deals, you can get a Touring for like $22k after incentives. Honda quality. Roomy interior that is quiet. It's not a BEV but close enough, never worry where the next charge is either but still do 80-90% driving on electric.

I like PHEVs including the Prius (great car), but I love more the idea of not dealing with the maintenance of an ICE engine.

[angelescrest]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

I saw this and was intrigued, but as we are moving across the country, I want to buy where we will live, by which then I the deal will be over. Maybe even with shipping the car the deal makes sense?

[hi_there]

Just get the Honda Clarity PHEV. Smoking deals, you can get a Touring for like $22k after incentives. Honda quality. Roomy interior that is quiet. It's not a BEV but close enough, never worry where the next charge is either but still do 80-90% driving on electric.

I like PHEVs including the Prius (great car), but I love more the idea of not dealing with the maintenance of an ICE engine.

Less maintenance is better, but I am getting the impression from your post that it will still be more convenient overall to get a gas car and avoid EV charging logistics.

[joebruin77]

EV's at or close to that price point would include the Chevy Bolt, the Kia Soul EV, the Hyundai Kona EV, and the Nissan Leaf. Although some of the MSRP's are higher than 25K, they may end up at or below 25K if you take into account the federal $7,500 tax savings as well as possible State tax incentives. Also don't forget to take into account local utility rebates and tax deductions on the purchase and installation of home chargers.

If you want an EV at a super low price, consider buying a used Nissan Leaf. I saw a couple at my local Carmax that were amazing deals. Then again, the reason the prices were so low is because the resale value of older Leafs is so poor.

[llama]

If you want an EV at a super low price, consider buying a used Nissan Leaf. I saw a couple at my local Carmax that were amazing deals.

I bought a 2019 Leaf SV with 6000 miles on it from CarMax a couple months ago for cheap. Love it.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I get about 4 miles of range per hour on a 120V outlet.

[THANKS]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

If I'm reading this correctly:
1) 9000 Cash back
2) 0% APR + 7000 off if financing with GM
3) 3000 off from Costco

So is that $19000 off total? My state doesn't have any exceptional rebates and the federal rebates seem to have been tapped out, but that is still pretty incredible.

[Tingting1013]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

If I'm reading this correctly:
1) 9000 Cash back
2) 0% APR + 7000 off if financing with GM
3) 3000 off from Costco

So is that $19000 off total? My state doesn't have any exceptional rebates and the federal rebates seem to have been tapped out, but that is still pretty incredible.

In CA the deal is even better. There are people prepaying $5000 for a three year lease and then getting that money back from the state’s CVRP / CVAP program. A free car for three years.

[Tingting1013]

Government at all levels is subsidizing new electric vehicles like crazy, and all indications are that the deals will get even better.

I just wonder when the mainstream Boglehead mantra to drive a Corolla into the ground will finally die out.

[inbox788]

You should not keep any EV for 10 years.

You should be buying new and then selling after one year, for essentially no money out of pocket, or even a $1-2k profit.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I had read you can get 4 miles an hour, but I don’t have first hand experience. 30 miles wouldn’t be enough. 40 though, yes.

Can you charge at work? And if you visit the mall or theater for 1-2 hours, you can charge up faster on those trips. Pick lunch spots that have charging.

[Tingting1013]

I absolutely love Tesla, but would never envision paying for one yet

Three year old Model 3s are selling for about same price as new.

New Model 3 Standard Range Plus (263 miles): $35,700 + TTL (with $3,500 CA incentives)

Used 2018 Model 3 Mid Range (260 miles): $35,450 + TTL

https://shift.com/car/2018-black-tesla- ... &utm_term=

Owning a Tesla for a few years can be cheaper than owning a Corolla.

[heyyou]

Consumer Reports magazine often has reviews of cars based on price and reliability.

[otinkyad]

If you want an EV at a super low price, consider buying a used Nissan Leaf. I saw a couple at my local Carmax that were amazing deals.

I bought a 2019 Leaf SV with 6000 miles on it from CarMax a couple months ago for cheap. Love it.

Used Leafs are not the steal they used to be, but they’re still a pretty good deal. Maybe the 2018 model year with the longer range changed things?

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I get about 4 miles of range per hour on a 120V outlet.

I also get about 4 miles per hour of charge. I have a 2014 Leaf, which I still love, and have just stuck with the 120V charger. It gets me 40-60 miles of charge per night. As others have mentioned, you might also be able to top up when shopping or dining out.

As far as quiet and smooth, whenever I drive my wife’s car I tell her it vibrates even when it’s not moving and it makes an enormous racket, and when it is moving, it’s slow.

The Bolt is smaller than a Leaf, if that matters.

[Valuethinker]

If you want an EV at a super low price, consider buying a used Nissan Leaf. I saw a couple at my local Carmax that were amazing deals.

I bought a 2019 Leaf SV with 6000 miles on it from CarMax a couple months ago for cheap. Love it.

Used Leafs are not the steal they used to be, but they’re still a pretty good deal. Maybe the 2018 model year with the longer range changed things?

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I get about 4 miles of range per hour on a 120V outlet.

I also get about 4 miles per hour of charge. I have a 2014 Leaf, which I still love, and have just stuck with the 120V charger. It gets me 40-60 miles of charge per night. As others have mentioned, you might also be able to top up when shopping or dining out.

As far as quiet and smooth, whenever I drive my wife’s car I tell her it vibrates even when it’s not moving and it makes an enormous racket, and when it is moving, it’s slow.

The Bolt is smaller than a Leaf, if that matters.

What are the options for a 220v charger for an American home? Charging x2 as fast?

In Europe our electricity is 220v anyways (now you know why it's illegal to put an electricity socket in a British bathroom - there's a special low amp socket for shaver (ie not the usual 13 amp fuse), hair dryers in hotels have to be hard wired in).

2014 Leaf - could I ask what is your maximum range?

The one I see around here is the BMW i3 - I love the styling, it reminds me of the original movie "Tron". You can get one with a gasoline range extender. You see a lot of i3 s around (London). We now also have EV black cabs (London taxis).

[Valuethinker]

I’ve been wanting to buy an EV for a long time. Looks like this June will be the time for me to do it. But what should I get?

My thoughts and considerations:

• We will have a second car, a minivan
  Hoping to spend 25k max out the door, all cash
  We usually keep cars for a very very long time, mostly for financial reasons
  Commute will be roughly 40 miles, but I will need it to do longer trips like to the city, airport, medium length weekend trips
  Might be renting a condo for a couple years with garage, and am thinking I can survive just plugging into a regular outlet which will give me 40-50 miles of charge per day. Crazy idea?
  Used in CA, avg summer high temps of 96 in our area
  Needs to be okay for two elementary aged kids (for now, middle school soon) in the back
  I prefer quieter, smooth vehicles, though don’t have much exp with EVs
  Used is fine for me, as long as it can last a long time (degradation, etc)
  Based on reviews, Leaf sounds like a great fit for me: more comfortable, with features I like, but is battery degradation a problem for long term use (10+ years)?
  Bolt sounds more practical, if not uncomfortable seats, noisier, and really ugly inside?
  Occasionally I haul lots of equipment in the back for my work
  I absolutely love Tesla, but would never envision paying for one yet

Appreciate any thoughts, as well as how to buy one. I’ve not done my research on buying new (real cost), leasing, or used (that’s all I’ve ever done). Any questions I should be considering?

I don't know if the BMW i3 is on your list?

Generally BMWs are high maintenance cost/ high depreciation vehicles.
But the i3 is obviously something different ie an EV. And in California you won't confront the issues with road salt corrosion that the north east and midwest do.

I admit I just like the styling (futuristic- modern). In the land of SUVs, it may feel too small.

[mpnret]

You should not keep any EV for 10 years.

You should be buying new and then selling after one year, for essentially no money out of pocket, or even a $1-2k profit.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

My Tesla m3 gets 96 miles in a 12 hour charge on a existing 120v outlet in my garage.

[crefwatch]

Bolt LT tends to be much cheaper than Premier. Premier interior is no uglier than, say, a Corolla. Lots of rear leg room. Bolt OEM 120v charger is reported to work on 240 if available, 2x as fast. Some condo communities have chargers. Once you have a level 2 charger located, you won’t need to charge every day, which may be better for the battery life. Bolt ride feels bumps because of low friction tires and pressure. Heat and AC come out of range for any EV.

I would think twice if you can’t count on easy access to level 2 charging twice a week.

[vg55]

Definitely buy used. I got a great deal on a used Volt. It is too small for your purposes. But I love the PHEV.

In the meantime, install a level 2 charger. I bought mine used on clippercreek. Go for 240 volt 40 amp. The more the better. Level 1 charging is a trickle charge. Did it once. never again.

I oversized on my charger cause I know the next car will accept even more charge.

I got on clippercreek's refurbished charger list and waited for a great deal. https://store.clippercreek.com/used

BTW -- I liked the suggestion about the Honda Clarity. I would have gone that route, but the vehicle had just come out and there wasnt a used market for them yet.

[angelescrest]

If you want an EV at a super low price, consider buying a used Nissan Leaf. I saw a couple at my local Carmax that were amazing deals.

I bought a 2019 Leaf SV with 6000 miles on it from CarMax a couple months ago for cheap. Love it.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I get about 4 miles of range per hour on a 120V outlet.

I’ve been looking at the 2018+ Leaf models. What did you pay if you don’t mind sharing? 4 miles of range for 12 hours is enough for me.

[angelescrest]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

If I'm reading this correctly:
1) 9000 Cash back
2) 0% APR + 7000 off if financing with GM
3) 3000 off from Costco

So is that $19000 off total? My state doesn't have any exceptional rebates and the federal rebates seem to have been tapped out, but that is still pretty incredible.

In CA the deal is even better. There are people prepaying $5000 for a three year lease and then getting that money back from the state’s CVRP / CVAP program. A free car for three years.

Where can I find more info on this?

[Valuethinker]

If you want an EV at a super low price, consider buying a used Nissan Leaf. I saw a couple at my local Carmax that were amazing deals.

I bought a 2019 Leaf SV with 6000 miles on it from CarMax a couple months ago for cheap. Love it.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I get about 4 miles of range per hour on a 120V outlet.

I’ve been looking at the 2018+ Leaf models. What did you pay if you don’t mind sharing? 4 miles of range for 12 hours is enough for me.

You should seriously consider a Level 2 charger as future proofing your house. The only thing that would give me pause is future technology change - maybe a new, higher standard of charger might emerge?

It's like cable tv or broadband (or electricity), in 30 years time (10?) it will just be an expected feature of any house. I would imagine a house in America, now, is almost unsaleable without broadband? (I mean yes there are rural areas, or places where houses are truly cheap, but it's very hard to live a life without broadband, now especially post Covid-19?).

[TrollToll]

I like the BEVs too, but I don't think a PHEV would be a bad idea either. They offer a ton of flexibility and are always ready to go - especially for someone charging at 120v.

I owned a 2012 Chevy Volt and later a Tesla Model 3. I charged my Volt on 120v for a few years and it worked just fine.

You should be able to get a used 2018 Volt below your price point ($15k or so) and I think it's a great car. 50 miles of EV range. You should be able to do 95% of your driving on electric & get most of the benefits. If you ever need to do a road trip, it has a hybrid engine with good mpg.

I you are able to upgrade to the 240v charger, I think that would be good too regardless of your choice. I don't expect in-home charger infrastructure will go out of style any time soon.

[Luke Duke]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

If I'm reading this correctly:
1) 9000 Cash back
2) 0% APR + 7000 off if financing with GM
3) 3000 off from Costco

So is that $19000 off total? My state doesn't have any exceptional rebates and the federal rebates seem to have been tapped out, but that is still pretty incredible.

I think that you have to choose between 1 & 2. There's also another $1500 rebate if you are a current GM owner.

[FoolStreet]

You should not keep any EV for 10 years.

You should be buying new and then selling after one year, for essentially no money out of pocket, or even a $1-2k profit.

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I had read you can get 4 miles an hour, but I don’t have first hand experience. 30 miles wouldn’t be enough. 40 though, yes.

Yeah, 4 miles per hour sounds right. You could go faster with a dryer outlet. My friends rave about their Bolts.

[Mordoch]

Its worth noting that in California depending on your income, you potentially can also be eligible for a rebate on a used car.
https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-ince ... nd-rebates

Depending on where you live in California, you can also specifically get an additional tax rebate if you install an L2 charger.
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/ev/i ... al-rebates

Its also worth noting with current California law your landlord is also ordinarily required to allow you be to be able to upgrade the charger for your vehicle. (Although as noted another option would be one of the plug in options currently available.)

[Big Dog]

Commute will be roughly 40 miles, but I will need it to do longer trips like to the city, airport, medium length weekend trips

How far is the airport?

Might be renting a condo for a couple years with garage, and am thinking I can survive just plugging into a regular outlet which will give me 40-50 miles of charge per day. Crazy idea?

To me, yes, crazy idea. ~30- miles of charging overnight won't get you very far, particularly in winter. (Batteries are not as efficient when the temps drop.) You mention summer temps in the 90's, but what about winter? If its in the 30's in the morning commute, expect a range loss of at least 30%, more if you turn on the car's heaters.

(full disclosure: I have two Tesla model 3's. I would not purchase an EV without level 2 charging at home.

[Tingting1013]

~30- miles of charging overnight won't get you very far, particularly in winter. (Batteries are not as efficient when the temps drop.) You mention summer temps in the 90's, but what about winter? If its in the 30's in the morning commute, expect a range loss of at least 30%, more if you turn on the car's heaters.

(full disclosure: I have two Tesla model 3's. I would not purchase an EV without level 2 charging at home.

Thank you for bringing some reality back to the L1 charging debate.

In CA the deal is even better. There are people prepaying $5000 for a three year lease and then getting that money back from the state’s CVRP / CVAP program. A free car for three years.

Where can I find more info on this?

You need to follow this thread religiously:
https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/ethanrs- ... 68018/1846

Latest from the SoCal dealer is that he will have "2021 Premier one-pay will be sub 6k on 36/10k with all rebates" in a few weeks

You get $2,000 back from CVRP, assuming your income falls below:
$150,000 for single filers
$204,000 for head–of–household filers
$300,000 for joint filers

And if you make even less than the income limits below, you can get another $2.5k back from CVRP and $5k from CVAP
Number of People* Maximum Gross Annual Income**
1 $51,040
2 $68,960
3 $86,880
4 $104,800
5 $122,720
6 $140,640

You can get paid $3k to drive this car for 3 years.

[TravelGeek]

~30- miles of charging overnight won't get you very far, particularly in winter. (Batteries are not as efficient when the temps drop.) You mention summer temps in the 90's, but what about winter? If its in the 30's in the morning commute, expect a range loss of at least 30%, more if you turn on the car's heaters.

(full disclosure: I have two Tesla model 3's. I would not purchase an EV without level 2 charging at home.

Thank you for bringing some reality back to the L1 charging debate.

Well, let's be fair: there have been multiple reports in this thread from actual L1 users that report 4 miles per hour, so a 12 hour charge would add 48 miles overnight.

It is important to compare your charging rate to your actual daily driving requirement. And you should consider that you generally don't arrive home with an empty battery and add 30 miles overnight (which would then give you just 30 miles range the next day). Take a Bolt with 200 mile range (it has a greater nominal range, but the standard recommendation is to not charge to 100% unless you go on a long distance trip). Charge it once to 200 miles range and then keep topping it off overnight -- you will have plenty of range every morning if your daily driving roughly matches the range you add overnight and you can perhaps occasionally charge at work or at the mall or some other public charger.

full disclosure: I have a 2018 LEAF with an NEMA 14-50 L2 "charger" in the garage and (based on my needs analysis) would be okay with L1 charging speed. In my case the outlet existed and the EVSE came with the vehicle, so it didn't cost me extra.

[angelescrest]

Commute will be roughly 40 miles, but I will need it to do longer trips like to the city, airport, medium length weekend trips

How far is the airport?

Might be renting a condo for a couple years with garage, and am thinking I can survive just plugging into a regular outlet which will give me 40-50 miles of charge per day. Crazy idea?

To me, yes, crazy idea. ~30- miles of charging overnight won't get you very far, particularly in winter. (Batteries are not as efficient when the temps drop.) You mention summer temps in the 90's, but what about winter? If its in the 30's in the morning commute, expect a range loss of at least 30%, more if you turn on the car's heaters.

(full disclosure: I have two Tesla model 3's. I would not purchase an EV without level 2 charging at home.

I appreciate the feedback. Maybe I can talk to the owner about installing an L2 charger, but from what I've gathered, they're not interested in doing ANY upgrades of any kind, given how much choice and control that sellers/landlords have in this currently insane housing market. I do believe my work has some chargers, but it's a sprawling place and they're not at all close to my office.

[angelescrest]

~30- miles of charging overnight won't get you very far, particularly in winter. (Batteries are not as efficient when the temps drop.) You mention summer temps in the 90's, but what about winter? If its in the 30's in the morning commute, expect a range loss of at least 30%, more if you turn on the car's heaters.

(full disclosure: I have two Tesla model 3's. I would not purchase an EV without level 2 charging at home.

Thank you for bringing some reality back to the L1 charging debate.

Well, let's be fair: there have been multiple reports in this thread from actual L1 users that report 4 miles per hour, so a 12 hour charge would add 48 miles overnight.

It is important to compare your charging rate to your actual daily driving requirement. And you should consider that you generally don't arrive home with an empty battery and add 30 miles overnight (which would then give you just 30 miles range the next day). Take a Bolt with 200 mile range (it has a greater nominal range, but the standard recommendation is to not charge to 100% unless you go on a long distance trip). Charge it once to 200 miles range and then keep topping it off overnight -- you will have plenty of range every morning if your daily driving roughly matches the range you add overnight and you can perhaps occasionally charge at work or at the mall or some other public charger.

full disclosure: I have a 2018 LEAF with an NEMA 14-50 L2 "charger" in the garage and (based on my needs analysis) would be okay with L1 charging speed. In my case the outlet existed and the EVSE came with the vehicle, so it didn't cost me extra.

This is what I was thinking might be possible for me. I drive to work, do a little local driving for errands and shuttling kids, not much else. Long trips we have the van, though I’d certainly like to be able to use the car to drive 150 miles or so occasionally. Weekends we don’t drive a lot and could use the van while the EV tops off. I don’t want to pay the landlord any more than I have to, so I don’t want to pay to install an L2 in his own garage.

[angelescrest]

A couple follow up questions:

1. Is the regular Leaf (non plus) enough for the typical driver, and the use cases I described? Or would I miss the 200+ range?
2. I’ve never done a lease before, but would this be a case where for an EV it might make sense? I’ve always kept my cars for a very long time so this is a bit of an adjustment.

[Tingting1013]

A couple follow up questions:

1. Is the regular Leaf (non plus) enough for the typical driver, and the use cases I described? Or would I miss the 200+ range?
2. I’ve never done a lease before, but would this be a case where for an EV it might make sense? I’ve always kept my cars for a very long time so this is a bit of an adjustment.

I purchased a new Leaf in 2018 for $22k OTD after tax credits and rebates.

I could sell it to Carvana now for $18k.

That’s $111/month all in cost.

I don’t think you can find a lease that cheap.

[crossbow]

A couple follow up questions:

1. Is the regular Leaf (non plus) enough for the typical driver, and the use cases I described? Or would I miss the 200+ range?
2. I’ve never done a lease before, but would this be a case where for an EV it might make sense? I’ve always kept my cars for a very long time so this is a bit of an adjustment.

Get a quote for insurance before you lease. I've heard there are certain levels of insurance required for leases and on a new car that could be expensive/more expensive than if you bought a car with cash and didn't feel the need for such extensive coverage.

[oldcomputerguy]

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[angelescrest]

I purchased a new Leaf in 2018 for $22k OTD after tax credits and rebates.

I could sell it to Carvana now for $18k.

That’s $111/month all in cost.

I don’t think you can find a lease that cheap.

That makes sense. Was that the Leaf Plus? I'm trying to determine what a good price is, out the door at the dealer prior to the tax credits.

[Tingting1013]

I purchased a new Leaf in 2018 for $22k OTD after tax credits and rebates.

I could sell it to Carvana now for $18k.

That’s $111/month all in cost.

I don’t think you can find a lease that cheap.

That makes sense. Was that the Leaf Plus? I'm trying to determine what a good price is, out the door at the dealer prior to the tax credits.

Not the Plus. Leaf SV with Tech Package. For a 2021 model in CA I would target $32k OTD including the $1500 Clean Fuel Reward (applied by the dealer) but excluding the $7500 federal tax credit and the $2000 CVRP that you have apply for yourself.

[alfaspider]

I absolutely love Tesla, but would never envision paying for one yet

Three year old Model 3s are selling for about same price as new.

New Model 3 Standard Range Plus (263 miles): $35,700 + TTL (with $3,500 CA incentives)

Used 2018 Model 3 Mid Range (260 miles): $35,450 + TTL

https://shift.com/car/2018-black-tesla- ... &utm_term=

Owning a Tesla for a few years can be cheaper than owning a Corolla.

I know we can't debate the merits of pending legislation, but there is a current proposal to renew the $7,500EV credit for automakers like Tesla that have been phased out. $27,500 in California for a Model 3 is a very solid deal to the point that I think traditional sedans like the Camry/Accord shouldn't even be on the radar unless you take lots of road trips or don't have a place to charge.

[THANKS]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

If I'm reading this correctly:
1) 9000 Cash back
2) 0% APR + 7000 off if financing with GM
3) 3000 off from Costco

So is that $19000 off total? My state doesn't have any exceptional rebates and the federal rebates seem to have been tapped out, but that is still pretty incredible.

I think that you have to choose between 1 & 2. There's also another $1500 rebate if you are a current GM owner.

Shucks I knew that would be too good to be true.

[Jonezez]

Look at the Costco Bolt deal— and even if you always buy and keep cars forever, consider a lease if the deal is too good to pass up.

here is a good leasing website that shows incentives/cost.

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/2016/07/curr ... d-evs.html

[jeffh19]

For a cheaper car that won’t be taken on road trips, the Bolt is a clear winner in my book. I’d get a premier with the fast charging option, although it’s not that fast but better than normal level 2 if you ever need it.

But if you don’t care about all the things Tesla offers (brand/coolness/range/charging speed and network) than a Bolt is the next best option. The Mach E is hitting the streets too, that’s closer to a Tesla than a Bolt, and it should be a lot better after they have more experience and time with it and get some kinks worked out. Think of where Tesla has come in the last 5-10 years

[angelescrest]

I purchased a new Leaf in 2018 for $22k OTD after tax credits and rebates.

I could sell it to Carvana now for $18k.

That’s $111/month all in cost.

I don’t think you can find a lease that cheap.

That makes sense. Was that the Leaf Plus? I'm trying to determine what a good price is, out the door at the dealer prior to the tax credits.

Not the Plus. Leaf SV with Tech Package. For a 2021 model in CA I would target $32k OTD including the $1500 Clean Fuel Reward (applied by the dealer) but excluding the $7500 federal tax credit and the $2000 CVRP that you have apply for yourself.

Thanks, I’ll use $32k as a reference point as I look at dealers.

[WhyNotUs]

A few thoughts:
• A used 2017-2019 Bolt might be a good price deal due to the recall. Once they determine the issue and provide a fix, it should be a good car and with good range. There is a new 2020 Bolt on Autotrader for $25k
• You could find a 2019-2020 Leaf Plus used in your price range on Autotrader
• Check with area Nissan dealers for a lease deal on a Plus. Offer to be on a list in case they need a quick deal as part of a promotion that benefits the dealer. I got a 2020 Leaf SV (not a plus) last December for $85 a month with only taxes as downpayment. They kept all rebates, tax benefits. I had previously owned a 1st gen. leaf and loved it. I leased this time with the hope that the next battery tech will be available when my lease comes up. That is not a given

We have a minivan for our second car and having had ecars for 8 years, I am struck by how much more time and energy and money ICE cars require.

[Tingting1013]

• Check with area Nissan dealers for a lease deal on a Plus. Offer to be on a list in case they need a quick deal as part of a promotion that benefits the dealer. I got a 2020 Leaf SV (not a plus) last December for $85 a month with only taxes as downpayment. They kept all rebates, tax benefits. I had previously owned a 1st gen. leaf and loved it. I leased this time with the hope that the next battery tech will be available when my lease comes up. That is not a given

If OP can get a lease on a Leaf SV for <$150/month (all-in) for 12k miles per year that is a good deal.

[MathWizard]

If you want an EV at a super low price, consider buying a used Nissan Leaf. I saw a couple at my local Carmax that were amazing deals.

I bought a 2019 Leaf SV with 6000 miles on it from CarMax a couple months ago for cheap. Love it.

Used Leafs are not the steal they used to be, but they’re still a pretty good deal. Maybe the 2018 model year with the longer range changed things?

Also, plugging into a regular outlet won’t give you 40-50 miles, unless you literally don’t drive the car anywhere and it’s plugged in 24 hours straight. For a 12 hour overnight charge on a regular outlet you can expect 30 miles max.

I get about 4 miles of range per hour on a 120V outlet.

I also get about 4 miles per hour of charge. I have a 2014 Leaf, which I still love, and have just stuck with the 120V charger. It gets me 40-60 miles of charge per night. As others have mentioned, you might also be able to top up when shopping or dining out.

As far as quiet and smooth, whenever I drive my wife’s car I tell her it vibrates even when it’s not moving and it makes an enormous racket, and when it is moving, it’s slow.

The Bolt is smaller than a Leaf, if that matters.

What are the options for a 220v charger for an American home? Charging x2 as fast?

In Europe our electricity is 220v anyways (now you know why it's illegal to put an electricity socket in a British bathroom - there's a special low amp socket for shaver (ie not the usual 13 amp fuse), hair dryers in hotels have to be hard wired in).

2014 Leaf - could I ask what is your maximum range?

The one I see around here is the BMW i3 - I love the styling, it reminds me of the original movie "Tron". You can get one with a gasoline range extender. You see a lot of i3 s around (London). We now also have EV black cabs (London taxis).

For 220V, it is likely more than 2 times as fast.
You typically use larger amperage with 220V in the US.

I have 30 amp breaker for the dryer and higher for other appliances.

From:
https://www.chargepoint.com/resources/h ... v-charger/

For 220V:

Breaker Rating Charger Amperage Estimated Driving Range Added Per Hour of Charging

30A 24A 18 mi (29 km)

It would be proportionately more for higher amps.

It may slow down as the battery nears 100% at the higher amp ratings.

[NYC_Guy]

Commute will be roughly 40 miles, but I will need it to do longer trips like to the city, airport, medium length weekend trips

How far is the airport?

Might be renting a condo for a couple years with garage, and am thinking I can survive just plugging into a regular outlet which will give me 40-50 miles of charge per day. Crazy idea?

To me, yes, crazy idea. ~30- miles of charging overnight won't get you very far, particularly in winter. (Batteries are not as efficient when the temps drop.) You mention summer temps in the 90's, but what about winter? If its in the 30's in the morning commute, expect a range loss of at least 30%, more if you turn on the car's heaters.

(full disclosure: I have two Tesla model 3's. I would not purchase an EV without level 2 charging at home.

I have L2 for my Tesla. But the reality is that a normal 120v circuit can work. I was getting 120v*12 amp for about 1500 w per hour. Usually can get 12+ hours of charge overnight. So that is around 20kw. That’s at least 50 miles of range. But yes, it’s nice to be able to go from near zero to full overnight. I need to do that about 2 or 3 times a year.