Mask filters?

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Barefootgirl
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Mask filters?

Post by Barefootgirl »

My new cloth mask has a pocket for filters that can be swapped out/disposable as such.

Does anyone have a filter seller to recommend? is the issue of "counterfeit" a problem the way it is for KN95 filter masks?
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by nisiprius »

I bought one like that from an Etsy seller who also sold filters. But I wasn't impressed, because the filters were sort of stiff and made the mask fit less snugly around my nose. The filter pocket all by itself does add a layer of cloth for whatever that's worth.

I have no idea what's best but what my wife and I are doing now is double-masking, with a blue disposable drugstore "surgical grade" mask (from Walgreens.com) underneath a cottage-industry cloth mask. The big thing the cloth mask does is to make the drugstore mask fit more tightly and seal better. My intuition is that what is probably most important to get the air to go through the mask, instead of coming in and out around the edges.

I haven't got it licked yet, because my glasses continue to fog up. But they fog up less with double-masking. And, when double-masked, when I inhale, air moves freely, but I can feel the mask getting sucked in and snugged up around my nose.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by dbr »

nisiprius wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:57 am I bought one like that from an Etsy seller who also sold filters. But I wasn't impressed, because the filters were sort of stiff and made the mask fit less snugly around my nose. The filter pocket all by itself does add a layer of cloth for whatever that's worth.

I have no idea what's best but what my wife and I are doing now is double-masking, with a blue disposable drugstore "surgical grade" mask (from Walgreens.com) underneath a cottage-industry cloth mask. The big thing the cloth mask does is to make the drugstore mask fit more tightly and seal better. My intuition is that what is probably most important to get the air to go through the mask, instead of coming in and out around the edges.

I haven't got it licked yet, because my glasses continue to fog up. But they fog up less with double-masking. And, when double-masked, when I inhale, air moves freely, but I can feel the mask getting sucked in and snugged up around my nose.
Sucking in the mask is a poor man's fit test.

A possible filter would be a section of surgical mask cut to fit.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by jhsu802701 »

nisiprius wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:57 am I bought one like that from an Etsy seller who also sold filters. But I wasn't impressed, because the filters were sort of stiff and made the mask fit less snugly around my nose. The filter pocket all by itself does add a layer of cloth for whatever that's worth.

I have no idea what's best but what my wife and I are doing now is double-masking, with a blue disposable drugstore "surgical grade" mask (from Walgreens.com) underneath a cottage-industry cloth mask. The big thing the cloth mask does is to make the drugstore mask fit more tightly and seal better. My intuition is that what is probably most important to get the air to go through the mask, instead of coming in and out around the edges.

I haven't got it licked yet, because my glasses continue to fog up. But they fog up less with double-masking. And, when double-masked, when I inhale, air moves freely, but I can feel the mask getting sucked in and snugged up around my nose.
To stop your glasses from fogging up, use medical tape to secure the top of the inner mask to your face. The seal stops your exhalations from rising.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by KlangFool »

Barefootgirl wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:43 am My new cloth mask has a pocket for filters that can be swapped out/disposable as such.

Does anyone have a filter seller to recommend? is the issue of "counterfeit" a problem the way it is for KN95 filter masks?
https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Polluta ... 60&sr=8-12

Barefootgirl,

I use a PM2.5 mask that can use a PM2.5 filter insert.


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bltkmt
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by bltkmt »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:10 am
Barefootgirl wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:43 am My new cloth mask has a pocket for filters that can be swapped out/disposable as such.

Does anyone have a filter seller to recommend? is the issue of "counterfeit" a problem the way it is for KN95 filter masks?
https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Polluta ... 60&sr=8-12

Barefootgirl,

I use a PM2.5 mask that can use a PM2.5 filter insert.


KlangFool
Those are the ones we use as well.
GrowthSeeker
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by GrowthSeeker »

What is meant to be accomplished with a filter inside a cloth mask?

Regarding half face masks and full face masks for industrial or construction purposes, there are many types of filters that filter out different gases. The ones made by 3M are color coded and there's some useful info in this brochure. But these filters generally attach to larger face masks which are meant to have virtually no air leaking around the edges of the mask. I'm not sure how much good with respect to filtering out it would do in a cloth mask where there is moderate air leaking around.

The weak link for a cloth mask or a paper surgical mask is the airflow around the outside edges of the mask. More material in the cloth mask would increase the resistance to airflow through the mask+filter and there would be even more leakage (maybe) around the edges.

Maybe a water absorbing filter? Or a carbon filter?
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by KlangFool »

GrowthSeeker wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:25 am What is meant to be accomplished with a filter inside a cloth mask?

Regarding half face masks and full face masks for industrial or construction purposes, there are many types of filters that filter out different gases. The ones made by 3M are color coded and there's some useful info in this brochure. But these filters generally attach to larger face masks which are meant to have virtually no air leaking around the edges of the mask. I'm not sure how much good with respect to filtering out it would do in a cloth mask where there is moderate air leaking around.

The weak link for a cloth mask or a paper surgical mask is the airflow around the outside edges of the mask. More material in the cloth mask would increase the resistance to airflow through the mask+filter and there would be even more leakage (maybe) around the edges.

Maybe a water absorbing filter? Or a carbon filter?
GrowthSeeker,

That is why I use a PM2.5 Mask with a filter. I know what they are designed for. No, they are not as good as N95. But, they are better than a cloth mask.


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Re: Mask filters?

Post by dbr »

GrowthSeeker wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:25 am What is meant to be accomplished with a filter inside a cloth mask?

Regarding half face masks and full face masks for industrial or construction purposes, there are many types of filters that filter out different gases. The ones made by 3M are color coded and there's some useful info in this brochure. But these filters generally attach to larger face masks which are meant to have virtually no air leaking around the edges of the mask. I'm not sure how much good with respect to filtering out it would do in a cloth mask where there is moderate air leaking around.

The weak link for a cloth mask or a paper surgical mask is the airflow around the outside edges of the mask. More material in the cloth mask would increase the resistance to airflow through the mask+filter and there would be even more leakage (maybe) around the edges.

Maybe a water absorbing filter? Or a carbon filter?
This is true. Unless you have an actual N95 mask designed and fitted for good face seal or use a silicone face cup with attached filter cartridges designed for particulate filtration you are not going to get the level of personal protection we really want. The ultimate device would be a full face helmet with pumped, filtered air supply, as in fact are used by some in critical care settings.

Filters for vapors such as solvents are different and would have nothing directly to do with this. Sometimes the cartridges for such applications include both vapor and particulate filtration. In the case of Covid virus is carried in droplets and aerosols exhaled, coughed, or sneezed, and these are filtered as particles not as vapor. An individual isolated virus particle is so small that it is effectively filtered quite easily. Very small particles are filtered easily in beds of fine fibers because they rapidly diffuse to and collide with fibers. Somewhat larger particles can actually be more difficult to filter. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0
GrowthSeeker
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by GrowthSeeker »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 am
GrowthSeeker wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:25 am What is meant to be accomplished with a filter inside a cloth mask?

Regarding half face masks and full face masks for industrial or construction purposes, there are many types of filters that filter out different gases. The ones made by 3M are color coded and there's some useful info in this [url = https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/565 ... ochure.pdf]brochure[/url]. But these filters generally attach to larger face masks which are meant to have virtually no air leaking around the edges of the mask. I'm not sure how much good with respect to filtering out it would do in a cloth mask where there is moderate air leaking around.

The weak link for a cloth mask or a paper surgical mask is the airflow around the outside edges of the mask. More material in the cloth mask would increase the resistance to airflow through the mask+filter and there would be even more leakage (maybe) around the edges.

Maybe a water absorbing filter? Or a carbon filter?
GrowthSeeker,

That is why I use a PM2.5 Mask with a filter. I know what they are designed for. No, they are not as good as N95. But, they are better than a cloth mask.


KlangFool
I had not heard of PM2.5 masks before, so I had to look it up.

In the NIOSH air filtration ratings, the N95, N99, N100 designations mean these masks theoretically filter out 95%, 99%, or 99.99% of 0.3 micron size particles. They picked 0.3 micron as a size because on average, they are the most difficult to filter out. Smaller particles can be filtered out more easily due to Brownian motion and electrostatic charges.

The PM2.5 is said to filter out 95% of particles 2.5 microns in diameter. 2.5 microns is 8 times larger than 0.3 microns. So yes, the PM2.5 insert probably improves a cloth mask's effectiveness.

Personally, I'm not too worried about the type of mask for use out in public. Once you factor in the imperfections in the system (air leak around the sides, we touch our face, we adjust our masks, our eyes are not covered) these other factors probably overcome the benefit of upgrading a mask from "pretty good" to "perfect".
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livesoft
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by livesoft »

FWIW, I am satisfied with the KN95 masks that I bought off of Amazon. It looks like prices have gone up 33% since January 20th though.
I have found the main difference between KN95 and N95 is that the elastic bands of a KN95 go over each ear, while the elastic bands of the N95 masks go behind one's head/neck. As such I do not think any KN95 mask will ever become NIOSH-approved, but one can always rig a way to secure the elastic bands behind one's head and not just over one's ears if that is a concern.
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phinanciallyfit
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by phinanciallyfit »

We use these filters that we bought back in March. Personally, I am hesitant to buy this sort of thing on Amazon because I don't want to risk getting counterfeits.

https://fortressmask.com/
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anon_investor
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by anon_investor »

We bought some off Amazon, no idea if they are actually work. We only wear them when walking outside or picking up kids from school parking lot. If we go into stores we wear KN95 makes we also ordered off Amazon.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by dbr »

GrowthSeeker wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am

Personally, I'm not too worried about the type of mask for use out in public. Once you factor in the imperfections in the system (air leak around the sides, we touch our face, we adjust our masks, our eyes are not covered) these other factors probably overcome the benefit of upgrading a mask from "pretty good" to "perfect".
Yes, in a bona fide occupational/health protection environment procedure and discipline need to be strict. Actual N95 masks with tight bands and good face seal and without exhalation valves are not comfortable.

Another issue is mask re-use. The usual N95 is designed to be discarded with each use and finagling to reuse these masks has been a challenge.

At least in the health environment the masks don't get plugged, which is a major issue in dust and industrial uses. Note that most of N95 disposable models were originally developed for industrial safety applications and not for health care environments though today they are adapted for both.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by joebruin77 »

Early on in the pandemic, I came across an article in the Washington Post in which the guy that invented the N-95 Mask said that the disposable blue shop towels actually make an excellent material for face masks. I personally bought a few rolls of these blue shop towels. I cut out a pattern to fit inside the filter pocket of my mask. Works great!

Here is an article with a similar point:

https://www.businessinsider.com/homemad ... ter-2020-4

From this article:
"Inserting two of these towels into an ordinary cotton mask brought filtration up to 93% of particles as small as 0.3 microns, the smallest their machine could test. Meanwhile, the cotton masks filtered 60% of particles at best in their tests, Schempf said.

Polyester hydro knit towels are readily available at hardware and automotive stores. The two brands they tested were ToolBox's shop towel and ZEP's industrial blue towel. Interestingly, Scott's pro shop towels, which are also made with a hydro knit fabric, didn't work as well, Schempf said."
bi0hazard
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by bi0hazard »

In my opinion, cloth masks with filters are mostly a gimmick, particularly for covid protection.

From my amateur research, I believe the best "civilian" (non-medical) masks are Korean, individually wrapped, KF-94 masks. Some are adjustable, some FDA approved, and can filter 99%+. This is what I have for kids, because you can buy medium size masks.

Personally, I (re)use 3m n95 masks covered by surgical mask, but that's in a hospital setting. When shopping, I use Powecom KN-95, which by no means actually filters 95% stuff, as it doesn't exactly fit perfect.

Bottom line, if the mask doesn't perfectly fit your face, it doesn't matter what kind of filters it has, and how many layers it has. Cloth masks should be fine if everyone is wearing them, but they won't do anything meaningful if only you are wearing them in the midst of aerosolized pathogen,
Last edited by bi0hazard on Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: I'm not very smart, and this is just my hypothesis.
hi_there
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by hi_there »

What about mask with a face shield on top? Not only will it provide an extra layer of protection, but you will also be protected from inclement weather and will look trendy.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by anon_investor »

bi0hazard wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:39 pm In my opinion, cloth masks with filters are mostly a gimmick, particularly for covid protection.

From my amateur research, I believe the best "civilian" (non-medical) masks are Korean, individually wrapped, KF-94 masks. Some are adjustable, some FDA approved, and can filter 99%+. This is what I have for kids, because you can buy medium size masks.

Personally, I (re)use 3m n95 masks covered by surgical mask, but that's in a hospital setting. When shopping, I use Powecom KN-95, which by no means actually filters 95% stuff, as it doesn't exactly fit perfect.

Bottom line, if the mask doesn't perfectly fit your face, it doesn't matter what kind of filters it has, and how many layers it has. Cloth masks should be fine if everyone is wearing them, but they won't do anything meaningful if only you are wearing them in the midst of aerosolized pathogen,
Any reason you bought Powecom KN-95 masks versus another brand? Where do you find KF-94 masks?
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by increment »

bi0hazard wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:39 pm When shopping, I use Powecom KN-95, which by no means actually filters 95% stuff, as it doesn't exactly fit perfect.
Reportedly Powecoms have been counterfeited, and so now they have anti-fake packaging to help you identify the real ones. I guess that means that people are confident about the real ones (since why would anyone counterfeit a lousy product?).
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by livesoft »

I am satisfied with the way the KN-95 masks I have fit me. They pucker onto to my face when I inhale and my glasses do not fog up when I exhale. I am not sure there is much else one can do except stay away from situations where one needs to use a mask if at all possible.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by Independent George »

Barefootgirl wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:43 am My new cloth mask has a pocket for filters that can be swapped out/disposable as such.

Does anyone have a filter seller to recommend? is the issue of "counterfeit" a problem the way it is for KN95 filter masks?
I've been using this mask & filter combo from Outdoor Research. These are legit pieces of gear which can be adjusted to form a proper seal around your nose and mouth, and the company has been making N95 respirators since the pandemic hit.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by bi0hazard »

anon_investor wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:53 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:39 pm In my opinion, cloth masks with filters are mostly a gimmick, particularly for covid protection.

From my amateur research, I believe the best "civilian" (non-medical) masks are Korean, individually wrapped, KF-94 masks. Some are adjustable, some FDA approved, and can filter 99%+. This is what I have for kids, because you can buy medium size masks.

Personally, I (re)use 3m n95 masks covered by surgical mask, but that's in a hospital setting. When shopping, I use Powecom KN-95, which by no means actually filters 95% stuff, as it doesn't exactly fit perfect.

Bottom line, if the mask doesn't perfectly fit your face, it doesn't matter what kind of filters it has, and how many layers it has. Cloth masks should be fine if everyone is wearing them, but they won't do anything meaningful if only you are wearing them in the midst of aerosolized pathogen,
Any reason you bought Powecom KN-95 masks versus another brand? Where do you find KF-94 masks?
Powecom I believe had some sort of emergency FDA approval when pandemic broke out. They do have anti-counterfeit stickers...

KF-94 can be found in some US stores or you can order straight from Korea. I use BOTN and Dr Puri brands . All these are individually wrapped , unlike Chinese kn95.

*Edit: when I say wrapped, I mean completely sealed.
Last edited by bi0hazard on Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: I'm not very smart, and this is just my hypothesis.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by bi0hazard »

livesoft wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:05 pm I am satisfied with the way the KN-95 masks I have fit me. They pucker onto to my face when I inhale and my glasses do not fog up when I exhale. I am not sure there is much else one can do except stay away from situations where one needs to use a mask if at all possible.
Top of the mask is easiest to seal on account of the nose piece thingy. I find that larger masks leak on the bottom and sometimes sides. But if it fits, it fits.

I agree, risk avoidance is important. So is getting the vaccine, which I got in December, and hopefully coming to all BHs soon.
Disclaimer: I'm not very smart, and this is just my hypothesis.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by bi0hazard »

increment wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:01 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:39 pm When shopping, I use Powecom KN-95, which by no means actually filters 95% stuff, as it doesn't exactly fit perfect.
Reportedly Powecoms have been counterfeited, and so now they have anti-fake packaging to help you identify the real ones. I guess that means that people are confident about the real ones (since why would anyone counterfeit a lousy product?).
Don’t mistake mask quality, with good fitment. Separate issues, both important.
Disclaimer: I'm not very smart, and this is just my hypothesis.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by telemark »

I'm currently using some Earth Filters that I got during their Kickstarter, but there doesn't appear to be any way to order them at the moment. When those run out I'll probably switch back to my Halo mask, which is very light and easy to breath through but also makes my glasses fog up, even using the added rubber nose piece. Perhaps by then it will be warm enough that won't be a problem. I don't know if the Halo filters would fit your mask.

https://halolife.io/
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by anon_investor »

bi0hazard wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:28 pm
increment wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:01 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:39 pm When shopping, I use Powecom KN-95, which by no means actually filters 95% stuff, as it doesn't exactly fit perfect.
Reportedly Powecoms have been counterfeited, and so now they have anti-fake packaging to help you identify the real ones. I guess that means that people are confident about the real ones (since why would anyone counterfeit a lousy product?).
Don’t mistake mask quality, with good fitment. Separate issues, both important.
The Supply Aid KN95 masks I bought both from snowjoe and amazon fit me and my spouse very well. We will continue using them, have not had any issues. It looks like the Powecom KN95 is sold out at amazon.

I know the PM2.5 filters probably do not do anything, but we still use them in cloth masks for less crowded situations.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by mervinj7 »

Barefootgirl wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:43 am My new cloth mask has a pocket for filters that can be swapped out/disposable as such.

Does anyone have a filter seller to recommend? is the issue of "counterfeit" a problem the way it is for KN95 filter masks?
I no longer use PM2.5 filters with a cloth mask. I found them too difficult to breath over extended periods of time (e.g. 8 hour work day) ever since my workplace banned masks with valves. I generally only wear a cloth mask for distanced, low-risk outdoor activities. For anything indoors, including grocery shopping, going to work, and doctor's office visits, I've switched to KN95 masks (i.e. FDA authorized Powecom) from an authorized distributor.

https://bonafidemasks.com/Powecom-kn-95/

FDA PPE List: https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/cor ... #appendixa
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by chazas »

bi0hazard wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:39 pm In my opinion, cloth masks with filters are mostly a gimmick, particularly for covid protection.

From my amateur research, I believe the best "civilian" (non-medical) masks are Korean, individually wrapped, KF-94 masks. Some are adjustable, some FDA approved, and can filter 99%+. This is what I have for kids, because you can buy medium size masks.

Personally, I (re)use 3m n95 masks covered by surgical mask, but that's in a hospital setting. When shopping, I use Powecom KN-95, which by no means actually filters 95% stuff, as it doesn't exactly fit perfect.

Bottom line, if the mask doesn't perfectly fit your face, it doesn't matter what kind of filters it has, and how many layers it has. Cloth masks should be fine if everyone is wearing them, but they won't do anything meaningful if only you are wearing them in the midst of aerosolized pathogen,
KF94s are more comfortable - the elastic doesn't interfere with my glasses and hearing aids or pull at my ears. They have extra room in front of your face because of the design. And they're readily available online or, where I am, at all Korean groceries.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by money2churn »

I just went with the quick, dirty and cheap route. Cut-up a HEPA rated vacuum cleaner bag(I had a ten pack that would take the vac forever to go through) and use as an insert. They're washable so I clean it along with the mask. Done.
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mfswatz9
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by mfswatz9 »

How about using coffee filters inside a mask as a filter?
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

I use (iirc) a kn95 and then over that an N95. It is really difficult to breath through, but I don’t ever have to keep it on for more than 5-10 minutes. I don’t think it would work well for extended use. Between the ear loop and the back of the head loop, the combo forms a pretty good seal.
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Time2Decumulate
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by Time2Decumulate »

Amazon has US-made (Kimberly Clark) N95 masks in stock at a decent price ($58 for 50). They're the 'duck' style.

We ordered some last week and they came this week. They fit OK and are comfortable. We had been using just cloth masks, but it felt like it might be good to have some better masks around.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NVDFB3R/
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by momvesting »

mfswatz9 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:16 pm How about using coffee filters inside a mask as a filter?
This is what we have been doing, but we also rarely go out in public and when we do, we go at the least busy time and try to stay 10+ feet away from others whenever possible. When we do go out but the exposure is minimal (like doing a curbside pickup in our truck where we stay in the cab and have items placed in a bin in the bed), we wear a typical cloth mask with a reusable filter layer that I made by sewing together two high thread count cotton sheets with a layer of cotton batting in the center.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

Independent George wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:08 pm
Barefootgirl wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:43 am My new cloth mask has a pocket for filters that can be swapped out/disposable as such.

Does anyone have a filter seller to recommend? is the issue of "counterfeit" a problem the way it is for KN95 filter masks?
I've been using this mask & filter combo from Outdoor Research. These are legit pieces of gear which can be adjusted to form a proper seal around your nose and mouth, and the company has been making N95 respirators since the pandemic hit.
website says the filters are out of stock.
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Re: Mask filters?

Post by mfswatz9 »

I just got my kn95 from Amazon and I like the fit very much. $26 for 20 masks.
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