Shoes for winter walks
Shoes for winter walks
For exercise I'm walking around our neighborhood 2-3 miles a day, and I'm looking for some good winter walking or hiking shoes. I'm walking on paved surfaces, and we have not had any snow or ice just wind and 30 degrees or colder temps. I doubt I'm going to be walking very much or fast, if we start getting snow.
Currently, I have Asics running shoes, and Merrell hiking shoes but they are breathable/ventilated and my feet and toes get cold even with heavy merino wool socks. Those shoes are great for the other 3 seasons, but not Jan/Feb weather.
Most everything I'm finding is breathable, unless it is a heavy soled waterproof boot. I'm looking for some recommendations for something that I can walk a brisk pace in that doesnt allow the wind to blow in them.
Currently, I have Asics running shoes, and Merrell hiking shoes but they are breathable/ventilated and my feet and toes get cold even with heavy merino wool socks. Those shoes are great for the other 3 seasons, but not Jan/Feb weather.
Most everything I'm finding is breathable, unless it is a heavy soled waterproof boot. I'm looking for some recommendations for something that I can walk a brisk pace in that doesnt allow the wind to blow in them.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
I wear these in winter in MD. LL Bean Snow Sneaker
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Goretex.
I have a pair of North Face mid GTX. They are comfortable to walk in.
Ecco makes nice goretex boots. Expensive.
I have a pair of North Face mid GTX. They are comfortable to walk in.
Ecco makes nice goretex boots. Expensive.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Look into Salomon.
I'm a big fan of their Speedcross and XA Pro shoes. Love the lacing system. In fact I'm in my first week of wearing a pair of XA PRO 3D V8 GORE-TEX. Replaced an older set that I had worn for years.
Although, given your location you probably don't need the gore tex. I lived in Greenwood for a couple years and was just fine running with Brooks Glycerins. Used the same in Alaska for running year round.
I'm a big fan of their Speedcross and XA Pro shoes. Love the lacing system. In fact I'm in my first week of wearing a pair of XA PRO 3D V8 GORE-TEX. Replaced an older set that I had worn for years.
Although, given your location you probably don't need the gore tex. I lived in Greenwood for a couple years and was just fine running with Brooks Glycerins. Used the same in Alaska for running year round.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
+1 on the Gortex. Keep your feet warm and dry. I wear mid height Gortex hiking boots for walks in all kinds of winter weather. The lugs on the soles also help with grip in slush or snow. Although once it gets icy even that does not help much.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Progressed from wearing Merrel and Keen for walking rails-to-trails mainly but lately favor Oboz. The Oboz fit like a glove, sole does not allow gravel to impede walking, durable, waterproof. Paired with the Strava app for tracking makes for a good outing.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
+1. I bought these same ones for my FIL. He loves them.alec wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:18 pm I wear these in winter in MD. LL Bean Snow Sneaker
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Thanks everyone. I'll take a look at your suggestions.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Try a sock liner. I use them when running during the winter as they come up higher and I can still wear my running socks.
Smartwool is the one I use.
Also found a hack to make shoes with grip. Use #8 1/2' hex head metal screws and screw them into the bottom of an old pair of shoes. I use them when trail running and its icy.
Smartwool is the one I use.
Also found a hack to make shoes with grip. Use #8 1/2' hex head metal screws and screw them into the bottom of an old pair of shoes. I use them when trail running and its icy.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
I find that waterproof hikers + heavy socks keep my feet warm enough if I'm moving around, at least in temps above 30. If I'm just standing there, my feet might get cold.Harri88 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:10 pm For exercise I'm walking around our neighborhood 2-3 miles a day, and I'm looking for some good winter walking or hiking shoes. I'm walking on paved surfaces, and we have not had any snow or ice just wind and 30 degrees or colder temps. I doubt I'm going to be walking very much or fast, if we start getting snow.
Currently, I have Asics running shoes, and Merrell hiking shoes but they are breathable/ventilated and my feet and toes get cold even with heavy merino wool socks. Those shoes are great for the other 3 seasons, but not Jan/Feb weather.
Most everything I'm finding is breathable, unless it is a heavy soled waterproof boot. I'm looking for some recommendations for something that I can walk a brisk pace in that doesnt allow the wind to blow in them.
Do your existing Merrill's have a waterproof layer (goretex, etc)?
Re: Shoes for winter walks
I just purchased some Allbirds merino wool shoes for cold dog walking days. Turns out they are my most comfortable shoes and super warm too - feet have stayed pretty warm down to 20 degrees.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
I like these Timberland boots - more of a hybrid athletic shoe and boot:
https://www.timberland.com/shop/mens-wh ... s-12135214
https://www.timberland.com/shop/mens-wh ... s-12135214
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Glad this was posted , had same question/interest , lots of good answers and possibilities , I have the additional challenge of having narrrow feet , manufacturers seem to cater to mid widths , live in NE and want shoes that are warm , light weight , and comfortable for Winter walks like the OP.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
I do walks in snow and mud around here. I've found Lowa waterproof boots (they are European and quite popular here in Germany) to be warm and waterproof. I also use Wrightsocks which are doubled layered-these are mainly for minimization of blisters forming on my feet (friction and sliding mainly between sock layers and not my foot and boot) but they are also warmer.
I have a pair of Merrels and used to love them, but they are too breezy (air flow through) for around here and my feet get wet and cold. They are fine for summer.
Vibram soles are also important for minimizing slipping.
I have a pair of Merrels and used to love them, but they are too breezy (air flow through) for around here and my feet get wet and cold. They are fine for summer.
Vibram soles are also important for minimizing slipping.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Homemade hobnails! Nice!forgeblast wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:46 am Try a sock liner. I use them when running during the winter as they come up higher and I can still wear my running socks.
Smartwool is the one I use.
Also found a hack to make shoes with grip. Use #8 1/2' hex head metal screws and screw them into the bottom of an old pair of shoes. I use them when trail running and its icy.
I second your recommendation for sockliners. Some come equipped with Thinsulate, which always keep my feet nice and toasty underneath thick wool socks. OP should also look into ski/snowboard socks, which tend to be insulated and come up to the knees. I've found that they keep my feet warmer than equivalent thickness crew-length socks.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
+1. These are excellent. I have a pair of the speedcross or supercross (very similar) and they are warm, comfortable, fairly light, waterproof and stable. Great all around walking/hiking shoe.brokendirtdart wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:45 pm Look into Salomon.
I'm a big fan of their Speedcross and XA Pro shoes. Love the lacing system. In fact I'm in my first week of wearing a pair of XA PRO 3D V8 GORE-TEX. Replaced an older set that I had worn for years.
Although, given your location you probably don't need the gore tex. I lived in Greenwood for a couple years and was just fine running with Brooks Glycerins. Used the same in Alaska for running year round.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
No they do not have any waterproof layer. They are the Moab Ventilators. Someone above recommended a Gortex type layer so that might be the key to keeping the cold air out.TN_Boy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:59 amI find that waterproof hikers + heavy socks keep my feet warm enough if I'm moving around, at least in temps above 30. If I'm just standing there, my feet might get cold.Harri88 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:10 pm For exercise I'm walking around our neighborhood 2-3 miles a day, and I'm looking for some good winter walking or hiking shoes. I'm walking on paved surfaces, and we have not had any snow or ice just wind and 30 degrees or colder temps. I doubt I'm going to be walking very much or fast, if we start getting snow.
Currently, I have Asics running shoes, and Merrell hiking shoes but they are breathable/ventilated and my feet and toes get cold even with heavy merino wool socks. Those shoes are great for the other 3 seasons, but not Jan/Feb weather.
Most everything I'm finding is breathable, unless it is a heavy soled waterproof boot. I'm looking for some recommendations for something that I can walk a brisk pace in that doesnt allow the wind to blow in them.
Do your existing Merrill's have a waterproof layer (goretex, etc)?
Because of the good responses, I've refined my search to Cold weather Trainers.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
I wear Danner 2650 for winter walking and mountain biking. Fantastic quality and not overly breathable.
https://www.danner.com/men/hike/trail-2 ... k-red.html
https://www.danner.com/men/hike/trail-2 ... k-red.html
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
+1, these are great for your situation. I got about 15 years out of my last pair. (You can find deals on Ebay if you want a deal.)alec wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:18 pm I wear these in winter in MD. LL Bean Snow Sneaker
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds
They also come in a high top version and velcro if you like that.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
I've had (and have) multiple pairs of the Ventilators. But I also have a pair that's the exact same shoe, but with a waterproof GoreTex layer. I used those in the winter or very light snow conditions. Don't know if Merrell still makes them.
And then last year I got a different pair of Merrell boots. "Thermo Cross". If you like Merrells, you'd probably like something like these. They're fairly lightweight as far as boots go, but they have higher snow blockage, are waterproof, fairly warm with decent socks, and they come with a Vibram sole that includes the grippy ice traction rubber.
https://www.rei.com/product/156753/merr ... boots-mens
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Maybe I am a mutant, but I have never felt cold feet before - although minimum temperature for me has been 5-10 degrees Fahrenheit so far.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
I found some old fashioned leather hiking boots on sale for $35, and got an insulated and plain pair. They are no name made in India, but are comfortable, and even the plain pair is a lot warmer than summer breathables. Of course, leather takes a little breaking in, but, in this case not much, and they are as good on a trail as on pavement (I do about 50/50).
Keep up the pace! Strolling to booking: walking really is the best exercise when the arms are swinging freely, the head is up and relaxed, and the breathing is free and full.
Keep up the pace! Strolling to booking: walking really is the best exercise when the arms are swinging freely, the head is up and relaxed, and the breathing is free and full.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Yes they do. In fact I just bought another pair recently and the REI salesman mentioned that they don't even bother to stock the Ventilator style locally. (I was debating whether to get a breathable pair for summer.)
I've been doing lots of hikes in nearby state parks, averaging maybe 10 miles per week. Haven't had any problem with cold feet. But have run into a couple of situations where ice cleats would have come in handy, so I also picked up a set of Yaktrax while I was at REI. Haven't had the right conditions for testing them yet, however.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
OP, this recommendation may be a little overkill, but I've had a pair of Limmer Boots, all leather, hand made for over a decade now, on third pair of soles and they are simply the most comfortable thing I've every had for hiking. I'm in CO, hike placid trails and rough trails almost every day. I've had them on in winter wx that was below 0 F and never felt cold feet (if snowing I use gaiters). I wear a thin merino wool or cool max sock and thick wool over sock. I have a few thousand miles on these boots and will get a new pair sometime next year or so when I get back up to NH. Again, they are a bit overkill for routine walks, but they fit your feet like a fine leather glove, breathe when needed and can handle the rough stuff as well as casual walking trails.
https://www.limmercustomboot.com/
https://www.limmercustomboot.com/
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Same here...while moving at least. I used to laugh in the Army at Fort Drum. -20F for PT and I had two or three layers everywhere but my feet which had cotton socks and running shoes.
OP, are you starting with fresh socks? Meaning bone dry.
Find a solution and keep at it! Move, move, move.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
I like them too. I bought two pairs in the past two months. I am in Los Angeles.anon_investor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am+1. I bought these same ones for my FIL. He loves them.alec wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:18 pm I wear these in winter in MD. LL Bean Snow Sneaker
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds

They have both cushioning and vertical support, which I need. They could use better lateral stability, the sole height to width ratio is a bit high (I have very wide feet).
I don't think their soles are optimal for gripping in ice and snow, but I have worn previous pairs in real winter areas, and they are good enough, and waterproof around the lower portions of the shoe.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
+1 on OBOZ. Incredible fit. I have two pair. A low rise pair for three seasons and a high top insulated pair for winter. Can wear the insulated pair with wool socks in zero degree temps for long walks, no cold toes at all. The fit is sculpted with a great arch and liner, cured my plantar fasciitis.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
They also have these, which supposedly have better grip:tooluser wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:03 pmI like them too. I bought two pairs in the past two months. I am in Los Angeles.anon_investor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am+1. I bought these same ones for my FIL. He loves them.alec wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:18 pm I wear these in winter in MD. LL Bean Snow Sneaker
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds
They have both cushioning and vertical support, which I need. They could use better lateral stability, the sole height to width ratio is a bit high (I have very wide feet).
I don't think their soles are optimal for gripping in ice and snow, but I have worn previous pairs in real winter areas, and they are good enough, and waterproof around the lower portions of the shoe.
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/118203?pa ... bottom.pdp
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
For grip in ice and snow you get crampons.anon_investor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:11 amThey also have these, which supposedly have better grip:tooluser wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:03 pmI like them too. I bought two pairs in the past two months. I am in Los Angeles.anon_investor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am+1. I bought these same ones for my FIL. He loves them.alec wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:18 pm I wear these in winter in MD. LL Bean Snow Sneaker
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds
They have both cushioning and vertical support, which I need. They could use better lateral stability, the sole height to width ratio is a bit high (I have very wide feet).
I don't think their soles are optimal for gripping in ice and snow, but I have worn previous pairs in real winter areas, and they are good enough, and waterproof around the lower portions of the shoe.
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/118203?pa ... bottom.pdp
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Agreed. I don't think low top "snow sneakers" of any kind are meant for real snow anyway. And I don't advise walking on ice...stoptothink wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:33 amFor grip in ice and snow you get crampons.anon_investor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:11 amThey also have these, which supposedly have better grip:tooluser wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:03 pmI like them too. I bought two pairs in the past two months. I am in Los Angeles.anon_investor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am+1. I bought these same ones for my FIL. He loves them.alec wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:18 pm I wear these in winter in MD. LL Bean Snow Sneaker
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/121316?pr ... lsrc=aw.ds
They have both cushioning and vertical support, which I need. They could use better lateral stability, the sole height to width ratio is a bit high (I have very wide feet).
I don't think their soles are optimal for gripping in ice and snow, but I have worn previous pairs in real winter areas, and they are good enough, and waterproof around the lower portions of the shoe.
https://m.llbean.com/llb/shop/118203?pa ... bottom.pdp
LL Bean also has the following disclaimer on the product webpage:
Arctic Grip footwear will not prevent all slipping on every surface. Always tread with care.
Arctic Grip outsoles do not replace the use of crampons, spikes or traction devices.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Since you already like Merrils (as do I), be aware that many of their styles come in both "Ventilated" (what you have) and "Waterproof" varieties. The Waterproof are typically much warmer, even if they don't have a ton of insulation. Also better for walking in the snow for obvious reasons.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Ecco Men's Track Shoe, either low or high. Not inexpensive but the best you can get....
https://us.ecco.com/ecco-mens-track-25- ... 00#start=1
https://us.ecco.com/ecco-mens-track-25- ... 00#start=1
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Sounds good.Harri88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:13 pmNo they do not have any waterproof layer. They are the Moab Ventilators. Someone above recommended a Gortex type layer so that might be the key to keeping the cold air out.TN_Boy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:59 amI find that waterproof hikers + heavy socks keep my feet warm enough if I'm moving around, at least in temps above 30. If I'm just standing there, my feet might get cold.Harri88 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:10 pm For exercise I'm walking around our neighborhood 2-3 miles a day, and I'm looking for some good winter walking or hiking shoes. I'm walking on paved surfaces, and we have not had any snow or ice just wind and 30 degrees or colder temps. I doubt I'm going to be walking very much or fast, if we start getting snow.
Currently, I have Asics running shoes, and Merrell hiking shoes but they are breathable/ventilated and my feet and toes get cold even with heavy merino wool socks. Those shoes are great for the other 3 seasons, but not Jan/Feb weather.
Most everything I'm finding is breathable, unless it is a heavy soled waterproof boot. I'm looking for some recommendations for something that I can walk a brisk pace in that doesnt allow the wind to blow in them.
Do your existing Merrill's have a waterproof layer (goretex, etc)?
Because of the good responses, I've refined my search to Cold weather Trainers.
I do think hikers with goretex (or similar layer) of waterproofing are definitely warmer in cold damp weather. And useful for more than just walking when cold

For icy conditions, I find Yaktrax work well and are easy to pop on over your choice of shoes.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Some great options given so far.Harri88 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:10 pm For exercise I'm walking around our neighborhood 2-3 miles a day, and I'm looking for some good winter walking or hiking shoes. I'm walking on paved surfaces, and we have not had any snow or ice just wind and 30 degrees or colder temps. I doubt I'm going to be walking very much or fast, if we start getting snow.
Currently, I have Asics running shoes, and Merrell hiking shoes but they are breathable/ventilated and my feet and toes get cold even with heavy merino wool socks. Those shoes are great for the other 3 seasons, but not Jan/Feb weather.
Most everything I'm finding is breathable, unless it is a heavy soled waterproof boot. I'm looking for some recommendations for something that I can walk a brisk pace in that doesnt allow the wind to oSblow in them.
I found Hoka OneOne SpeedGoat4 GTX to be very nice - trail tread, low cut.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Thanks for the tips on OBOZ. Store near us carries them & we'll check them out.Tattarrattat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:23 pm+1 on OBOZ. Incredible fit. I have two pair. A low rise pair for three seasons and a high top insulated pair for winter. Can wear the insulated pair with wool socks in zero degree temps for long walks, no cold toes at all. The fit is sculpted with a great arch and liner, cured my plantar fasciitis.
I have some Merrill MOAB that only lasted a couple of years and I really ended up not liking the fit.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Great thread.......
I've been a runner/walker for 40+ years. Started running early 20's....kept that up until 10-12 years ago; Now I walk 4-5 miles every day, 5-6 days per week.
My go-to shoe is Skechers Stamina-Cutback. I've been wearing them for the past 8+ years....probably burn through 3-4 pair a year. In winter, if its icy, I'll strap on a pair of crampon ice cleats. Living in Wisconsin, I never get cold feet.....but I keep moving.
https://www.skechers.com/men/shoes/stam ... 1286.html
I've tried many different brands and styles and have found the Stamina-Cutback to be best for my use. What I really like about these, and why others that I've tried never made the cut, is the sole is structured so that stones don't get stuck in the bottom. Anything that annoys me is when I out walking and a stone gets lodged in the sole....then I've gotta stop and pry it out.
Also, due to my fallen arches, at the recommendation from my podiatrist, I wear a pair of "Superfeet" insoles. I've had problems with plantar fasciitis and torn tendons in the past and these have solved that problem.
https://www.superfeet.com/en-us/
I've been a runner/walker for 40+ years. Started running early 20's....kept that up until 10-12 years ago; Now I walk 4-5 miles every day, 5-6 days per week.
My go-to shoe is Skechers Stamina-Cutback. I've been wearing them for the past 8+ years....probably burn through 3-4 pair a year. In winter, if its icy, I'll strap on a pair of crampon ice cleats. Living in Wisconsin, I never get cold feet.....but I keep moving.
https://www.skechers.com/men/shoes/stam ... 1286.html
I've tried many different brands and styles and have found the Stamina-Cutback to be best for my use. What I really like about these, and why others that I've tried never made the cut, is the sole is structured so that stones don't get stuck in the bottom. Anything that annoys me is when I out walking and a stone gets lodged in the sole....then I've gotta stop and pry it out.

Also, due to my fallen arches, at the recommendation from my podiatrist, I wear a pair of "Superfeet" insoles. I've had problems with plantar fasciitis and torn tendons in the past and these have solved that problem.

https://www.superfeet.com/en-us/
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Thank you everyone for the suggestions and ideas. I learned about some new shoe brands, that I was previously unaware of. I did some shoe shopping today, and I spent a little more than I had planned to. I tried on some Oboz, and Hoka's before deciding on a pair of On Running Cloudflyers Waterproof. https://www.on-running.com/en-us/produc ... lack-lunar I did a little walk this afternoon 1.25 miles and I can tell a difference that the waterproofing makes in helping to keep the cold out. I plan to do another walk this evening.
Regarding the Oboz. That is a nice shoe, I tried on the Bridger model and it felt good on my foot. Reason for not getting it, it was a bit more firm and stiff, more for the trail vs the other 2 brands, and decided for more cushioning. When I need to replace my Merrells I will look to get a pair. The Hoka's were the Challenger gore-tex model and they were very comfortable, very plush inside. At one point, I had the Hoka and On running both on walking around. I would have been happy with either, but ultimately went with the Cloudflyers.
Regarding the Oboz. That is a nice shoe, I tried on the Bridger model and it felt good on my foot. Reason for not getting it, it was a bit more firm and stiff, more for the trail vs the other 2 brands, and decided for more cushioning. When I need to replace my Merrells I will look to get a pair. The Hoka's were the Challenger gore-tex model and they were very comfortable, very plush inside. At one point, I had the Hoka and On running both on walking around. I would have been happy with either, but ultimately went with the Cloudflyers.
Re: Shoes for winter walks
Glad you found something you like , in your shopping travels did you come across any boots/shoes that have a narrow option , B width for example , light weight with good support ??Harri88 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:17 pm Thank you everyone for the suggestions and ideas. I learned about some new shoe brands, that I was previously unaware of. I did some shoe shopping today, and I spent a little more than I had planned to. I tried on some Oboz, and Hoka's before deciding on a pair of On Running Cloudflyers Waterproof. https://www.on-running.com/en-us/produc ... lack-lunar I did a little walk this afternoon 1.25 miles and I can tell a difference that the waterproofing makes in helping to keep the cold out. I plan to do another walk this evening.
Regarding the Oboz. That is a nice shoe, I tried on the Bridger model and it felt good on my foot. Reason for not getting it, it was a bit more firm and stiff, more for the trail vs the other 2 brands, and decided for more cushioning. When I need to replace my Merrells I will look to get a pair. The Hoka's were the Challenger gore-tex model and they were very comfortable, very plush inside. At one point, I had the Hoka and On running both on walking around. I would have been happy with either, but ultimately went with the Cloudflyers.
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Re: Shoes for winter walks
Ditto! I love the Keens for light trail or paved walks, however they are soft soled and will wear out quickly. I have been lucky enough to buy Oboz hikers (both low and high ankle style) and the waterproof ones do not make my feet sweaty. I do wear woolen socks. My feet have some issues and buying off the shelf is difficult. However the Oboz were a perfect fit on day one. I look for sales at my local REI on them as they are a bit pricey.